Speaker 1: You're listening to the Weekend Collective podcast from News Talks ab.
Speaker 2: Ant Together News Talk c e B Weekend Collective. Six
Speaker 2: minutes past five, I'm Jess with you through until six
Speaker 2: o'clock and it's my pleasure for the first time on
Speaker 2: the Parents Squad to welcome midwife Grace Strange. Hi, Grace, Hello,
Speaker 2: how are you very well? Thank you and thanks for
Speaker 2: making time for us. Now, you're a midwife and founder
Speaker 2: of Anti Natal Co. Can you tell us just a
Speaker 2: bit about yourself and your background as being a midwife.
Speaker 3: Yeah, so I've been a midwife for thirteen years in Auckland,
Speaker 3: mostly a hospital based midwife, so we worked across the
Speaker 3: whole spectrum of birth and post natal and anti natal
Speaker 3: and then I've been running inten intenatal classes for about
Speaker 3: seven years.
Speaker 2: Wow. Wow, I want to get into the antenatal class
Speaker 2: chat at some point this hour. Absolutely, And just before
Speaker 2: we get into the chat itself, are you noticing still
Speaker 2: a shortage of midwives? What's the landscape like?
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, yep, definitely massive shortage of midwives. There's work
Speaker 3: everywhere all over the country, so yeah, we need more.
Speaker 3: If anyone wants to study.
Speaker 2: We definitely do Yep, people are still having babies, absolutely,
Speaker 2: they always will now. A great statistics from Auckland Hospital
Speaker 2: show there's been a dramatic increase in women requesting sea
Speaker 2: sections in recent years, but a drop in women actually
Speaker 2: getting elective sea sections. Unfortunately. The numbers also show that
Speaker 2: the amount of emergency sea sections has increased. Could this
Speaker 2: be related and why are so many people asking for
Speaker 2: sea sections?
Speaker 3: Yeah?
Speaker 4: So the sea section.
Speaker 3: So Orkland Hospital puts out a their statistics every year
Speaker 3: for the last twenty years, and so this year is
Speaker 3: the first year that they've shown that their sea section
Speaker 3: rate is higher than their spontaneous vaginal birth rate. So
Speaker 3: is a concerning stat for lots of people. Reasons why
Speaker 3: this Maybe there's that Orkan Hospital, first and foremost is
Speaker 3: a tertiary hospital, which means that they deal with the
Speaker 3: most sick people, women and babies, so therefore higher chances
Speaker 3: of having a sea section. But also my personal opinion
Speaker 3: is that we're older. I'm thirty five and I had
Speaker 3: just had my first baby last year, and we're all
Speaker 3: we're all, you know, we're not in our early twenties
Speaker 3: having babies anymore. So I think I personally think that
Speaker 3: this has a huge impact on not saying that you
Speaker 3: know women older women can't have lovely vaginal births, but
Speaker 3: you know the rate of emergency sea sections is very high,
Speaker 3: and so yeah, it could be a reason why is
Speaker 3: because we're just we're old, we're geriatric. I'm geriatric thirty
Speaker 3: five and I'm a geriatric pregnancy.
Speaker 1: I know.
Speaker 2: I had my son when I was thirty and they
Speaker 2: mentioned geriatric to me and I was going, what on earth?
Speaker 2: But just before we carry on eight hundred eighty ten eighty,
Speaker 2: if you've got any questions for midwife Grace Strange around
Speaker 2: not only the C section aspect of things, but I
Speaker 2: want to know what are some of the things you
Speaker 2: were never told before you became a grandparent or a
Speaker 2: parent and would have changed the way you did things.
Speaker 2: What advice do you wish that you'd been told, or
Speaker 2: what advice would you give to your grandchildren or children
Speaker 2: having kids?
Speaker 5: Now?
Speaker 2: Oh, eight hundred eighty ten eighty, or if you've got
Speaker 2: any questions relating to parenting for Grace, we'd love to
Speaker 2: hear from you all. Nineteen nine two, Now, Grace, what
Speaker 2: are the statistics around do you have figures around how
Speaker 2: many women are actually having them.
Speaker 3: I do, so I'm only going off the Ugland hospital
Speaker 3: ones because they have the best and have done a
Speaker 3: best job at giving them. So in this report, they've
Speaker 3: released the twenty twenty three stats which they released in
Speaker 3: August last year, so they're the c section rate was
Speaker 3: at forty four point six percent of all births. So
Speaker 3: there was five seven hundred births at a hospital last year,
Speaker 3: forty four point six percent of them were c sections
Speaker 3: and only forty two point nine of them were spontaneous
Speaker 3: vaginal births. Wow, okay, and so big, you know, big, big,
Speaker 3: big change, big times being at more than more than
Speaker 3: previous times. So with the with that statistic, twenty nine
Speaker 3: point four percent of them were emergency and fifteen point
Speaker 3: two percent of them were an elective. Now, if you
Speaker 3: were a first time mum, then your chances of having
Speaker 3: a C section were at forty eight point nine percent.
Speaker 3: So the first time I'm giving birth last year in
Speaker 3: twenty twenty three, sorry, you had almost a fifty percent
Speaker 3: chance of having a c section. And this definitely was
Speaker 3: reflected in my internet of classes.
Speaker 4: So I met it.
Speaker 3: With the girls after they've had their babies for their
Speaker 3: first coffee group and I would say definitely at least
Speaker 3: fifty percent of them are having C sections.
Speaker 2: And why do you think that people are actually asking
Speaker 2: for them more? Is it becoming I don't want to
Speaker 2: say an easier option, but people perceiving it to be
Speaker 2: the easier way because the recovery time seems to be
Speaker 2: much longer.
Speaker 3: The recovery time can be much longer you are having,
Speaker 3: you know, quite a full on abdominal surgery. However, if
Speaker 3: you had a really awful rugged vaginal birth, you could
Speaker 3: have lifelong recovery effects from that. So I think people
Speaker 3: are requesting them because they like.
Speaker 4: To be in control. It could be a reason.
Speaker 3: You know, we've had we're older, having babies older, so
Speaker 3: you know, we've had these lovely careers that we've been
Speaker 3: in charge of, and so you know, it's quite handy
Speaker 3: to know the date and the time that your baby's
Speaker 3: going to be falling. Also rask Also again we're having
Speaker 3: babies older. Lots and lots and lots of people, including myself,
Speaker 3: you know, needed reproductive assistance or IVF to get pregnant. Sure,
Speaker 3: and so a elective sitey section again is a controlled
Speaker 3: environment where you can can mostly control the outcome. There's
Speaker 3: a lot less you know, up in the are of
Speaker 3: how it's going to go. Sure, so yeah, I think, yeah,
Speaker 3: I mean I personally, I know, I'm a midwife and
Speaker 3: I have been to many births, but for me, I
Speaker 3: had an elective site section, which is a very un
Speaker 3: Midwifi thing to say and do.
Speaker 2: I was gonna say that because midwives prefer naturlutely.
Speaker 3: Yes, Okay, I'm like, I'm a I'm an enigma. I'm
Speaker 3: not the I'm not your traditional midwife. But again, old,
Speaker 3: I'm older. I had a real bit reproductive, you know,
Speaker 3: assistance to get pregnant, and from all the thousands and
Speaker 3: thousands of births that I've been to, that personally felt
Speaker 3: like the.
Speaker 4: Best choice for me.
Speaker 3: Sure, and I had I was able, you know, I
Speaker 3: was d after by an obstrician, and so I was
Speaker 3: able to choose that. Certainly, not everybody gets to choose that.
Speaker 3: If you don't have a paid for obstetrician then and
Speaker 3: you don't have a you know, you're likely to you're
Speaker 3: less likely, sorry to get an elective sea section.
Speaker 2: And i'd imagine too grace if someone's walking and saying
Speaker 2: I want it born on the fourteenth of February because
Speaker 2: that's Valentine's Day or whatever. You know, if you don't
Speaker 2: have a really justified reason and resources are quite short,
Speaker 2: the chances are you're probably not going to get what
Speaker 2: you're asking for.
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, definitely, And you also don't get control. So
Speaker 3: as much as I on the date, sorry, as much
Speaker 3: as I wanted a sea section, you don't get to
Speaker 3: choose the fourteenth of February.
Speaker 4: That's the hospital's job.
Speaker 2: To fair enough, to fair enough to oh wait, one
Speaker 2: hundred and eighty ten eighty. We'd love to have your
Speaker 2: calls on this. Whether you've had an experience with a
Speaker 2: C section yourself, what was it? Straightforward? Do you wish
Speaker 2: that you'd had one or wish you hadn't? You can
Speaker 2: text through to nine two nine two as well. Grace
Speaker 2: is here to answer all parenting all range of parenting
Speaker 2: questions for you this hour. And then another question, what
Speaker 2: are some of the things you were never told before
Speaker 2: you became a parent or a grandparent and would it
Speaker 2: have changed the way you did things? Grace. I guess
Speaker 2: as a midwife yourself, you would be hearing all sorts
Speaker 2: of secondary advice or people on you know, both sides,
Speaker 2: especially for a first time parent getting advice contradicting itself
Speaker 2: all over the show.
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, welcome to parenthood, even in the hospital, and
Speaker 3: people say that to me, I did a lot of
Speaker 3: work in the post natal, in the immediate post natal space,
Speaker 3: so the first three to five days after people have
Speaker 3: given birth, and that the biggest bed banker that we
Speaker 3: would get. As it feels there's a lot of conflicting
Speaker 3: advice and would you potentially could see you know, up
Speaker 3: to five different midwives or nurses looking after you in
Speaker 3: a twenty four hour period, and they're all going to
Speaker 3: have slightly different ways of doing stuff, which is very,
Speaker 3: very challenging. And I do have a lot of empathy
Speaker 3: for people who go through that, and in saying that,
Speaker 3: the advice that I would give you on day one
Speaker 3: with your baby is different to what I would give
Speaker 3: you one day five. So that does add to you know,
Speaker 3: that feels like conflicting, but you know, actually it goes
Speaker 3: with them.
Speaker 2: True, true, because no one's the same either, are they.
Speaker 2: Each baby's going to have a different set of challenges
Speaker 2: and each parent's going to have a different set of challenges.
Speaker 2: Do you find that well, given that we are, we
Speaker 2: seem to be having babies later. As you say, do
Speaker 2: you think that control aspect, people are kind of googling
Speaker 2: a lot more and trying to have a set plane
Speaker 2: in their mind before they actually have child about a
Speaker 2: specific way they're going to raise them or deal with them.
Speaker 3: Absolutely, and I think social media has a massive part
Speaker 3: to play in.
Speaker 2: That, right.
Speaker 3: And I think, you know, even as a midwife and
Speaker 3: all that I knew, I mean, we only work for
Speaker 3: the first in the first six weeks after having a baby,
Speaker 3: that in all that I knew and all that I
Speaker 3: was prepared, I still found it very overwhelming. And I
Speaker 3: think partly that was to do with the social media
Speaker 3: that I was consuming. Because everyone has a different piece
Speaker 3: of advice, and everyone has a completely different piece of advice,
Speaker 3: and all those people are so called experts, and if
Speaker 3: you don't do it their way, then you're wrong and
Speaker 3: you're gonna hurt your baby or you know, oh, you know.
Speaker 3: It's just it's so intense, and as a mum, you
Speaker 3: want to do the best thing for your child, and
Speaker 3: they're all claiming that this is the best thing, and
Speaker 3: so you know, on top of your already sleep deprived, right,
Speaker 3: you have to figure out what you're.
Speaker 6: Going to do.
Speaker 2: Oh yes, and all the emotions flowing through you. Actually, Grace,
Speaker 2: we've got to text through here you might be able
Speaker 2: to answer it, says Hi, I had an emergency C section,
Speaker 2: so no judgment, But do you think New Zealand women
Speaker 2: are fully informed of the risks of a sea section
Speaker 2: for baby in terms of long term effects on baby's health.
Speaker 2: I find it's sad that C section is the rate
Speaker 2: so much higher. I feel it's a magic experience in
Speaker 2: so primal it should be a thing we have control of.
Speaker 2: So do you think women are fully informed when it happens,
Speaker 2: even if it's an emergency one.
Speaker 3: Look, I think that midwaves and obstitutions do the best
Speaker 3: that they can in that scenario, and they certainly tell
Speaker 3: you a lot of the risks and they make you
Speaker 3: sign consent forms to say that you understand what you're
Speaker 3: going to do. But I think given the scenario of
Speaker 3: an emergency C section, there's not you know, hours and
Speaker 3: hours to chat about the pros and cons of the
Speaker 3: whole thing. So you I feel like this is where
Speaker 3: antenatal education is really important, where people you know, can
Speaker 3: come to a great glass and they get to understand
Speaker 3: what's involved in an actual surgery, what are the risks
Speaker 3: to the mum, what are the risks to the baby?
Speaker 3: And I also think exactly the same thing should be
Speaker 3: true for a vaginal birth, because as much as we
Speaker 3: think vaginal births are awesome and lots of the time they are,
Speaker 3: there are certainly risks to you and your baby and
Speaker 3: a vaginal birth as well. And we don't make parents
Speaker 3: signed consents for a vaginal birth.
Speaker 4: Make science.
Speaker 3: So I think in general, across the board, there could
Speaker 3: be a lot more you know, education around both sides
Speaker 3: and the risks and benefits.
Speaker 2: Of both sides. Yes, yeah, thank you, So you can
Speaker 2: text it if you don't want to go on your
Speaker 2: nine two nine two. Grace would love to hear from
Speaker 2: you today, or you can call a weight hundred eighty
Speaker 2: ten eighty. We're discussing c sections at the moment, if
Speaker 2: you've got any questions about those, or maybe an experience
Speaker 2: that you went through that you want to share with
Speaker 2: us on eight hundred and eighty ten eighty. And also
Speaker 2: some of the things you had never told before you
Speaker 2: became a grandparent or parent, the advice you've received would
Speaker 2: have changed the way you did things if you were
Speaker 2: told this piece of advice. Now, oh, eight hundred and
Speaker 2: eighty ten eighty we we're heading to the phones now
Speaker 2: and we have Mark with us. High Mark.
Speaker 6: Good, I guy, I tell you very well.
Speaker 5: Thanks.
Speaker 2: So you've got a question for Grace.
Speaker 6: Well, actually I had well we had twins, and so
Speaker 6: we were sort of advised to being a high risk pregnancy,
Speaker 6: the best way was to go through and have a
Speaker 6: sea section. But I just feel like back then we
Speaker 6: probably didn't get enough on advice to you know, the
Speaker 6: pros and pros and cons, and the biggest one being
Speaker 6: that obviously the mother's milk didn't come through because she
Speaker 6: hadn't gone into labor, so we were like five days
Speaker 6: after the kid to be born before her milk actually
Speaker 6: came through. So that was a long period of stress.
Speaker 6: I feel for mum and she agrees with that, and
Speaker 6: also for the kids because they're just not getting the
Speaker 6: nutrient and everything that they needed at the time, and
Speaker 6: being in the public hospital, it wasn't really you know,
Speaker 6: it was really was only one nurse who said you
Speaker 6: should go down the road and buy some milk to
Speaker 6: make up really to feed your feed your baby. So
Speaker 6: it was a very stressful periods and you just wonder
Speaker 6: does that have any effect on the kids, you know,
Speaker 6: going forward and that in that short little window of life.
Speaker 2: So I'll let Grace answer this with twins, Twins is
Speaker 2: obviously a very unique situation as well. Yes, yeah, yes.
Speaker 3: So the reason why twins often are advised to be
Speaker 3: delivered by a sea section is it depends on the
Speaker 3: leading twins. So the twin that's coming out first, whether
Speaker 3: they're head down or bottom down. So if they are
Speaker 3: head down, then there is the potential that you could
Speaker 3: have a vaginal birth for the first baby. If the
Speaker 3: second baby is also hit down, then that baby should
Speaker 3: also come out vaginally head down. If that second baby
Speaker 3: is bottom down, then the doctors could hopefully manually turn
Speaker 3: that baby so that it is head down to deliver it.
Speaker 3: There are lots of risks to delivering babies who are
Speaker 3: bottomed down or who are breached. Not impossible, but a
Speaker 3: lot more risks. So in the scenario where there's a
Speaker 3: baby who is head down first and then the second
Speaker 3: baby is bottom down, there is the risk that you
Speaker 3: could deliver the first baby by vaginally and then if
Speaker 3: they can't turn the second baby, then you have to
Speaker 3: god have a sea section for that baby, So you
Speaker 3: don't want to have vaginal birth and a sea section
Speaker 3: because a lot for your Yeah, so I'm not sure
Speaker 3: and what your scenario was, but for whatever reason, they
Speaker 3: decided that that the safest way for your babies to
Speaker 3: be born was.
Speaker 6: That was very early on and we and we did
Speaker 6: actually have a date. We didn't get to choo to
Speaker 6: date as you but we had a date when you well,
Speaker 6: we had to be in this area because we're you know,
Speaker 6: rural close to the hospital two weeks prior to that
Speaker 6: date just in case. Yeah. But also I think maybe potentially,
Speaker 6: you know a lot of people think that the older
Speaker 6: that we get, but potentially maybe that's why we're having
Speaker 6: twins as well. There seems to be more set to
Speaker 6: twins in the small little area we were where we
Speaker 6: were in twenty ten, there were eleven sets to twins. Wow,
Speaker 6: And it's just like and it was not was not ivy.
Speaker 6: There was one couple that did IVS and but we
Speaker 6: were what you would call, you know, mid dirties. Yeah,
Speaker 6: so whords, Yeah, it was that's definitely our sort of
Speaker 6: parents lifetime. When they were doing the same sort of scenario,
Speaker 6: it's just not that's frequent.
Speaker 3: Yeah, No, definitely, what do we get there seems to
Speaker 3: be the more common twins now, that's for sure.
Speaker 2: And what Mark was saying there Grace about the being
Speaker 2: having a C section in the milk not coming through.
Speaker 2: Do you do you think, as Mark said that going
Speaker 2: down and getting the formula, that when I had my son,
Speaker 2: I was in Jews, so I didn't have milk either
Speaker 2: and I felt, unfortunately, was made to feel shame for
Speaker 2: having to go and get formula.
Speaker 6: Is that still the same, did you have that Mark massively?
Speaker 4: Yeah, I personally think it.
Speaker 6: Was so unfortunate. It was really unfortunate, and I feel
Speaker 6: that it brought stress on my partner. And at the
Speaker 6: end of the day, mum's happy. Kids are going to
Speaker 6: be happy. It's simple, simple way for life that they're
Speaker 6: feeding off mum. Then you know it's a game changer.
Speaker 6: And I tell you what, within the twenty four hours
Speaker 6: of bringing in some formula, the kids were way more
Speaker 6: settled and so was Mum. And it doesn't mean that
Speaker 6: it's going to be that way forever. And it's good
Speaker 6: to get mum back on breast is best, is what
Speaker 6: you're always told, but at the end of the day,
Speaker 6: if they're not feeding, they're starving to death. That's like traumatic,
Speaker 6: absolutely everyone.
Speaker 3: It's so so tough, and certainly not everyone who has
Speaker 3: a C section. Their milk is not necessarily delayed. So
Speaker 3: that's not everybody's it's not everybody's experience, and there are
Speaker 3: lots of reasons why it might be delayed and why
Speaker 3: you might need formula. And I personally think that the
Speaker 3: intense pro breastfeeding environment that we have, particularly in the hospitals,
Speaker 3: is awful. They make you, you know that they don't
Speaker 3: give we don't give formula to babies unless it's deemed
Speaker 3: medically necessary. And even in that scenario where it's you know,
Speaker 3: life saving, we make parents sign consent forms like they're
Speaker 3: signing away they're giving them like you know.
Speaker 4: Drugs or something exactly exactly.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I just think the whole environment is it's already
Speaker 3: so stressful and then adding that whole thing on top
Speaker 3: of the air and making you feel bad about it,
Speaker 3: and you know, it's.
Speaker 2: Just all it's just another stress. It's just another stress. Hey, Mark,
Speaker 2: thank you for sharing your experience. The other kids doing
Speaker 2: well now.
Speaker 6: Yeah, yeah, teenagers fifteen year olds. We're doing well and
Speaker 6: at the end of the day, you know, you can't
Speaker 6: stand up kids in the lineup and go you had
Speaker 6: breast milk, you know. Yeah, so no, there might be
Speaker 6: little things that lead on to it. But hey, we
Speaker 6: don't know everything, No, we don't. Mark.
Speaker 2: Hey, thank you very much for sharing your story. Thank
Speaker 2: you for being such a wonderful support for your wife
Speaker 2: at that time.
Speaker 4: To applaud you.
Speaker 2: Oh eight hundred eighty ten eighty. If you've got an
Speaker 2: experience or a question for Grace, please do give us
Speaker 2: a call or you can text through nine two nine two.
Speaker 2: We'll just take a short break the Parenting Squad here
Speaker 2: on the Weekend Collective. It's twenty six minutes past five,
Speaker 2: News Talk S'DB twenty nine minutes past five. I'm Jess
Speaker 2: with you through until six o'clock and the Parents Squad
Speaker 2: hour on the Weekend Collective. We're chatting with midwife Grace Strange.
Speaker 2: She's a midwife and founder of Anti Natal Co. And
Speaker 2: we're taking your calls. Oh, eight hundred eighty ten eighty.
Speaker 2: You can text through nine two nine two if you
Speaker 2: have any questions around the C section aspect, but also
Speaker 2: childbirth and the birthing process. I want to chat about
Speaker 2: anti natal classes very soon as well, but we do
Speaker 2: have Tessa on the line now, Hi Tessa.
Speaker 5: Hello, Hi guys.
Speaker 7: Hi, Hey, I wanted to share. So if there was
Speaker 7: something that I wish I got told, sure, I've got
Speaker 7: a ten months dog, So I would say the concept
Speaker 7: of the fourth trimester. Have you talked about that yet today? No?
Speaker 3: No, go for it.
Speaker 2: What was your what was your experience?
Speaker 7: So my parents are similar to a huge amount of woman,
Speaker 7: which is all these problems come up, you know when
Speaker 7: you have a baby that sleep and feeding, and I
Speaker 7: really think can be resolved with some background knowledge about
Speaker 7: the idea of the fourth trimester, which is that humans
Speaker 7: are a kind of mammal where we're born prematurely. All
Speaker 7: babies are born prematurely, even full term ones. So when
Speaker 7: they come out of the womb, they're still have a
Speaker 7: high need on parents, and we put so much pressure
Speaker 7: on ourselves because of societal norms to have this independent
Speaker 7: newborn and newborns are not are meant to be codependent
Speaker 7: on the parents and still as if they're in the
Speaker 7: womb for the fourth trimester. The first few months out
Speaker 7: of the the mum's body. Yeah, what's that understanding? You
Speaker 7: can be a lot more patient and a lot more
Speaker 7: kind of a lot more given to the experience a
Speaker 7: bit more because I feel like over the years we've
Speaker 7: developed this expectation for new mums that you put the
Speaker 7: baby in the curb and they sleep on a schedule.
Speaker 7: In any time these things don't work out, it it
Speaker 7: all feels like our fault. It's not your fault. That's
Speaker 7: not how they're designed.
Speaker 2: That's very interesting. Yeah, that's an interesting way to look
Speaker 2: at it, Tessa. And this is coming off. If you
Speaker 2: wish advice, you will wish you were given before you
Speaker 2: gave birth. And so Tessa's talking about that fourth trimestic grace.
Speaker 2: Will that be fair the pressure we put on ourselves
Speaker 2: after we've given birth.
Speaker 4: Absolutely? Yeah.
Speaker 3: I think that we certainly need a lot more education
Speaker 3: around the fourth trimester and what you know, early parenting
Speaker 3: looks like I think lots of pregnant women, you know,
Speaker 3: do a lot of research around you know, labor and
Speaker 3: birth and all that kind of stuff, and really that's
Speaker 3: probably like maximum twenty four hours of your life.
Speaker 4: Whereas as because.
Speaker 3: You said, you then just get given this baby and
Speaker 3: then you have to figure out what to do with
Speaker 3: it and what's normal and what's not normal. And I
Speaker 3: do think that we do get fed a lot around
Speaker 3: exactly what you said, how they just you just feed
Speaker 3: them and then you throw them in the cut and
Speaker 3: they sleep for two hours or three hours, and then
Speaker 3: you know, you go get your nails done.
Speaker 4: Whatever.
Speaker 2: It's just back to normal life. Ye, back to normal life.
Speaker 4: It's totally not.
Speaker 3: Everything changes in everything, and you changes, your hormones change,
Speaker 3: as you said, your sleep changes, and you have to
Speaker 3: feed this baby and look after this baby around the clock.
Speaker 3: And the amount of tiny little decisions that you have
Speaker 3: to make twenty four seven is exhausting.
Speaker 4: About am everything else?
Speaker 2: Yeah, So Tessa, what was your experience like did you
Speaker 2: discover this after having your first child?
Speaker 7: Yeah? I was floored by just by how hard it was.
Speaker 7: I had a baby that wanted to be in contact
Speaker 7: when you hours a day. She ended up having allergies
Speaker 7: and so she was getting sick from my mail because
Speaker 7: all this kind of stuff. But my two takeaways from
Speaker 7: it was one, she's not broken. There's nothing wrong with her.
Speaker 7: It's how we're trying to parent them that doesn't fit.
Speaker 7: And everything got so much easier. I had the privilege
Speaker 7: of being able to work around her. You know, I
Speaker 7: was able to I didn't have to rush back to work.
Speaker 7: So when I gave in to her niece, you know,
Speaker 7: how do when she needed to be held better, when
Speaker 7: she needed to be feed, the stress went away really.
Speaker 7: But then the second takeaway was that that is easier
Speaker 7: to do when you have support. The more support you have,
Speaker 7: the more people that are looking after the mom, the
Speaker 7: better the mom can look after the baby on the
Speaker 7: baby's terms and not ridiculous, you know, societal constructs. If
Speaker 7: you want to see how babies are evolved to be raised,
Speaker 7: we have to go back or what was con system
Speaker 7: for thousands of years and not just the things that
Speaker 7: have changed on whim for the last couple of hundred
Speaker 7: because you know, the last few hundred years are not
Speaker 7: human history. That's just a very small time.
Speaker 5: Yeah.
Speaker 3: And I think that our Western culture particularly is very
Speaker 3: you know, you know, very routine on babies and have
Speaker 3: a lot of expectations on babies and how they should behave,
Speaker 3: whereas if you look at Eastern Eastern cultures or you know,
Speaker 3: anywhere else, they are so protective, you know, over this first,
Speaker 3: you know the Asian cultures of the first forty days,
Speaker 3: and you know, being in confinement where everyone just comes
Speaker 3: around that mum and that baby and the mom doesn't
Speaker 3: even get out of bed for that. You know, you're
Speaker 3: doing true confinement for forty days, and so her whole
Speaker 3: role is on, you know, nourishing and recovering herself from
Speaker 3: birth and then giving that baby everything that it needs
Speaker 3: in its transition into you know, the world. So I
Speaker 3: totally agree with.
Speaker 4: You, Tess.
Speaker 7: They focus on codependence, not interdependence, where we need each
Speaker 7: other and babies so much so that the word independence
Speaker 7: shouldn't even be put out there for the first three years.
Speaker 7: You know, they need us for everything.
Speaker 2: Yeah, they sure do. Hey, Tessa, thank you very much
Speaker 2: for sharing that.
Speaker 4: Yeah, thank you, thank you.
Speaker 2: It's very sorry to cut you off the Tessa. It's
Speaker 2: it's I found it in my experience, and I want
Speaker 2: to bring in the anti natal classes here, Grace, if
Speaker 2: that's all good? So you run them, do you at
Speaker 2: the moment?
Speaker 5: Yes?
Speaker 4: Antenna classes in Auckland.
Speaker 2: Ye, how do you feel about So? I don't know
Speaker 2: what yours include, but when I went to anti natal classes,
Speaker 2: it was it was all about pre birth and the
Speaker 2: birth birthing process and what might happen and drugs and
Speaker 2: you know what your partner can do, but not so
Speaker 2: much about immediately after. Yes, so I very much went
Speaker 2: through a shock factor where I was induced and had
Speaker 2: had my son and then I was just literally left
Speaker 2: alone overnight, you know, in the room, and I had
Speaker 2: no milk, and then I had to sign the waiver
Speaker 2: for the formula and I was you know, scolded and
Speaker 2: told that I was I need to you know, express
Speaker 2: and do better and all this stuff. But should there
Speaker 2: be more of a focus now about that first well,
Speaker 2: that fourth trimester that Tessa was talking about.
Speaker 3: Absolutely, and I do think there has in general been
Speaker 3: a really positive change in lots of intenna classes.
Speaker 4: To not just focus on late right.
Speaker 3: Yeah, right, So I particularly we started our seven years ago,
Speaker 3: and there was none of that when we started. And
Speaker 3: that was a huge reason why I started classes. Was
Speaker 3: firstly because I hated antenna classes pushing agendas on women
Speaker 3: and making them feel bad for wanting an EPI dril
Speaker 3: or needing an EPI dril, or like needing a C section,
Speaker 3: and that they had failed. And then the second reason
Speaker 3: I sated them was exactly that that there was very
Speaker 3: limited education on what happened after you had baby, which is,
Speaker 3: as I said before, a massive part of your life.
Speaker 5: Yeah.
Speaker 4: So yeah, yeah, did that answer a question.
Speaker 2: Yes, I'm just in shocked because I'm so relieved. I
Speaker 2: mean that I'm talking eleven years ago I had my
Speaker 2: son and there was nothing then. And it was even
Speaker 2: at the point where I stayed in hospital four hours
Speaker 2: and then were sent home because there was no after
Speaker 2: birth unit facility or anything like that. And as a
Speaker 2: first time parent, right, you don't know any better. You go, Okay,
Speaker 2: I've been handed this human being to keep alive, and
Speaker 2: I'll just head home. And you end up in this
Speaker 2: pressure cooker of expecting yourself to know everything. And I
Speaker 2: think that's quite scary, isn't it So overwhelming?
Speaker 4: So overwhelming.
Speaker 3: So in our internal classes at Antenatal Coat, we do
Speaker 3: a lot of the birth stuff absolutely in terms of
Speaker 3: covering everything that could happen, and I do it in
Speaker 3: a way that I'm educating you and then your choice
Speaker 3: decide how you would like to do that or how
Speaker 3: it goes. And then in the post natal phase it's
Speaker 3: you know, your your recovery. So Mum's recovery from birth,
Speaker 3: what that's going to look like. When can she return
Speaker 3: to exercise, What her post natal mental health may look like.
Speaker 3: What are some ways in which you can help support her,
Speaker 3: even the dads or the support people. What's their mental
Speaker 3: health like, because certainly mental health perinatal mental health can
Speaker 3: happen to both partners. How to prepare your relationship for
Speaker 3: having a baby?
Speaker 4: Huge one. Yeah, everything, it.
Speaker 1: Is a big one.
Speaker 2: Absolutely yeah. On the other side of the break, I
Speaker 2: want to have a chat with you around introducing a
Speaker 2: new baby to other children, siblings and pets. Will do
Speaker 2: that very soon. Oh eight hundred eighty ten eighty. If
Speaker 2: you've got a question for Grace, she is a midwife
Speaker 2: and founder of the Anti Natal co and here to
Speaker 2: take your calls for the next or twenty minutes or so,
Speaker 2: oh eight hundred eighty ten eighty, or you can text
Speaker 2: through nine two nine two. Also, what was the piece
Speaker 2: of advice you wish you were given? We heard from
Speaker 2: Tessa there about the fourth trimester? Is something you wish
Speaker 2: that you knew before you became a parent, and some
Speaker 2: advice you could pass on to people listening as I say, oh,
Speaker 2: eight hundred and eighty ten eighty. We're now twenty one
Speaker 2: minutes away from six on news Talk S'B and I'm
Speaker 2: Jess with you through until six. We've got Romance standing
Speaker 2: by with in my day. But it's a pleasure for
Speaker 2: the first time on the weekend Collective to have midwife
Speaker 2: Grace Strange. She is a midwife and founder of Anti
Speaker 2: Natal co. And we're taking your calls. Oh, eight hundred
Speaker 2: and eighty ten eighty is the number to dial. Hi Poe, Hi, Hi, Hi, and.
Speaker 5: Thank you for the program. Greg. Hey, I just wanted
Speaker 5: to share I guess from as a dad and you know,
Speaker 5: she and my experience of being in a childbirth. You know,
Speaker 5: I first, he just wanted to say that. Now I've
Speaker 5: got to give it up to the mounds out there
Speaker 5: because I have six kids. Wow, I have six kids
Speaker 5: and they were all the live via.
Speaker 6: The via the V.
Speaker 2: Naturally naturally po Yes, but I'll.
Speaker 5: Probably say that it didn't My experience wasn't that it
Speaker 5: was natural. It was quite it was quite chaotic, as
Speaker 5: I said. And so you know, my oldest daughter is seventeen.
Speaker 5: But and then maybe I've got a younger child at
Speaker 5: the moment, who's who's almost one so I've you know,
Speaker 5: I've my experience with my seventeen has been quite different
Speaker 5: than what my experience was my almost one year olders.
Speaker 5: So I think I think it's improved so much in
Speaker 5: terms of depression that we had experienced when seventeen years ago,
Speaker 5: me and my wife wanted did our research. We did
Speaker 5: go to nat or classes and things like that. But
Speaker 5: seventeen years ago, we did feel that we were given,
Speaker 5: you know, there was a bit of pressure on us
Speaker 5: to do certain things and not to have a natural work,
Speaker 5: so we had to go to the hospital. We wanted
Speaker 5: to have a home birth, but we were sort of
Speaker 5: told to go to hospital. So we ended up just
Speaker 5: just doing that and and then just throughout that that
Speaker 5: whole experience, you know, we did. I did feel like
Speaker 5: we're you know, there was no pressure to to do
Speaker 5: either the EPI dural, you know, there was the gas
Speaker 5: at the time that that was sort of asked for us.
Speaker 5: We were even asked, you know, to do things like
Speaker 5: the vitamin K after the birth. I have to give
Speaker 5: it up to my wife, who you know who if
Speaker 5: you know, I supported her sort of goal through that
Speaker 5: to have a natural birth.
Speaker 2: Yeah, good on your Poe and seventeen to one. As
Speaker 2: you say, you've seen quite quite a change in the
Speaker 2: in the health system. How how do you manage six
Speaker 2: kids though across that age range.
Speaker 5: Well, well, the good thing is is that I had
Speaker 5: been close together, so was seventeen, one is fifteen and fourteen,
Speaker 5: and then I've had been quite quite late now, so
Speaker 5: one is four tuning four and two and then one
Speaker 5: doning one soon. So so I get a bit of
Speaker 5: the older ones helping out a younger one. But like
Speaker 5: what your previous caller said, for us, it's it's it's
Speaker 5: a village thing. It's a it's a e thing. We
Speaker 5: you know, our whole family comes together and it's part
Speaker 5: of it as part of our family, you know. And
Speaker 5: we were on a lot on that, and so we
Speaker 5: were glad that when my wife was giving birth, we
Speaker 5: just you know, we had both our parents and and
Speaker 5: and brothers and sisters come and look after her.
Speaker 6: She could just rest.
Speaker 5: Yeah, and I am yeah, And I understand that, you know,
Speaker 5: we don't announce in our system. You know, that's not
Speaker 5: something that a lot of us have access to, which
Speaker 5: is very sad, it sure is.
Speaker 2: And Poe, I want to applaud you for the support
Speaker 2: that you gave your your wife and being there in
Speaker 2: the booths because grace.
Speaker 1: Are we finding that the.
Speaker 2: Experience for dads is becoming a bit less scary, or
Speaker 2: that there being a bit more forthright with it and
Speaker 2: being involved.
Speaker 3: Look, I think I think dads want to be involved.
Speaker 3: I think, and I think part of internetal education is
Speaker 3: helping them to be involved too, so, you know, letting
Speaker 3: them know what's going to happen. They like to be
Speaker 3: a little bit of control and a little bit of
Speaker 3: understanding about what's going on with their Patterner often it's
Speaker 3: way harder for the person watching. I don't know how
Speaker 3: you thought about it, that you watching your partner going
Speaker 3: through it then to say necessarily your partner going through it.
Speaker 3: Obviously she's been through a lot and amazing her experience.
Speaker 5: Yeah, we were very lucky to go from those NEANEDO
Speaker 5: classes because it gave us that ability to, uh, to
Speaker 5: formulate our to formulate our plan you know, going into
Speaker 5: that and so we needed that because there's you know,
Speaker 5: so so many things happened during their birth process. So
Speaker 5: that really worked for us and helped to you know,
Speaker 5: to calm the emotions during quite a chaotic time, but
Speaker 5: our first experience. Obviously for the first child, it's just
Speaker 5: so much, you know, so much goes on, you know,
Speaker 5: for for the mums, you know, emotionally, physically, Like I think,
Speaker 5: I do agree when you mentioned earlier on there is
Speaker 5: this there is this idea that we have that that
Speaker 5: it is easy and then find out that it's harder.
Speaker 7: I think.
Speaker 5: Because and I put it down to you know, this
Speaker 5: is the things we see on TV and stuff that
Speaker 5: you know, the one minute and when I had this idea,
Speaker 5: our sweet airs. So if it's ten minutes, it should
Speaker 5: be fine, you know, she was even for two and
Speaker 5: a half hours. Easier to talk about it now, but
Speaker 5: once it's India and watching it go through, that was
Speaker 5: very high. It was very hard for me.
Speaker 7: Dad.
Speaker 2: Absolutely well, Poe, thank you for calling and sharing your experience.
Speaker 2: I really appreciate it, so does Grace and and our listeners.
Speaker 5: Great, thank you very much.
Speaker 2: Awesome, Thank you, Poe. It's jeez, it's nice, Grace to
Speaker 2: hear a couple of dads calling in. Is that yeah,
Speaker 2: engaging in this Before we take a break, I've just
Speaker 2: got a text for you here, Grace. This is a
Speaker 2: question for you. I start Midwiffery on Monday down in
Speaker 2: Otago and was wondering if Grace had any advice for me.
Speaker 3: Oh wow, yay, good work, Thank you so much, we
Speaker 3: need you any advice.
Speaker 4: Gosh, it's really for.
Speaker 3: I didn't do it to anilated in England and in
Speaker 3: my day, sixty to seventy percent of the of the
Speaker 3: degree was practical, so a huge amount in the hospital.
Speaker 3: So you're basically doing full time UNI and working essentially
Speaker 3: full time for free as a student.
Speaker 5: Wow.
Speaker 4: So just look, it's tough. It's pretty full on.
Speaker 3: At have lots of friends around that you can talk
Speaker 3: about all the things that you see, especially in those
Speaker 3: first few years because it's you know, you see a
Speaker 3: lot of things that you weren't quite expecting. But as
Speaker 3: you get older, you get to see the reflip the
Speaker 3: red flags and can can I kind of anticipate it's
Speaker 3: going happened?
Speaker 4: But yet no, thank you so much.
Speaker 3: We really, I really encourage you just to keep going.
Speaker 4: Stuck out at because it's brilliant. We need one the
Speaker 4: film midways out there.
Speaker 2: As you say, there's a shortage, so it sounds like
Speaker 2: no two days are the same.
Speaker 4: At least Grayea keeps you on your does.
Speaker 2: Oh wonderful. All right, we've got time for a couple
Speaker 2: more calls. I wait, hundred eighty teen age, We're going
Speaker 2: to take a quick break though, ten minutes away from
Speaker 2: six here on the weekend Collective news talks. He'd be
Speaker 2: and we're chatting with midwife Gray Strange taking your calls.
Speaker 2: I wait, hundred and eighty ten eighty, Hi there, Steve, Hi,
Speaker 2: how are you good? Thanks? What's your comment?
Speaker 8: I was just wanting to talk to Grace. I had
Speaker 8: my kids, and my kids in our twenty twenty six
Speaker 8: and twenty four, but we had our first one. I
Speaker 8: wonder what's your thoughts on parents deciding about where their
Speaker 8: children should be born or not born. I guess the
Speaker 8: reason I'm asking that my first child, we had no
Speaker 8: difficulties with the pregnancy, and my son was born in
Speaker 8: seven weeks early breach. He was seven pound six so
Speaker 8: and really unwell, and Heed, we had them home. I
Speaker 8: think we probably would have lost them. And I guess
Speaker 8: at the time I didn't feel like I had or
Speaker 8: we had the knowledge or to make the decern about
Speaker 8: where we had our children at that time. Had things
Speaker 8: changed in terms of the way people go about making
Speaker 8: that decernin now.
Speaker 4: I would like to think.
Speaker 3: So, I think that so every every woman has a
Speaker 3: birth plan chat with their LMC so their midway for
Speaker 3: the archestraction at thirty six weeks, which obviously you didn't
Speaker 3: make too if you heard your baby sim weeks certainly. Yeah,
Speaker 3: So at this at this birth plan chat which everybody has,
Speaker 3: that there is a discussion around where you'd like to deliver,
Speaker 3: who you'd like to be in your room, where you're
Speaker 3: gonna have vitamin K, whole bunch of things, where your
Speaker 3: pain lap options might be, et cetera, et cetera, and
Speaker 3: you get to choose. So you guys are the most
Speaker 3: powerful people in the room always in terms of what
Speaker 3: you decide to do. Nobody can force you to have
Speaker 3: their baby your baby at the hospital. Nobody can force
Speaker 3: you to have your baby at home. And so during
Speaker 3: that chat and during your time with your ALMENC, so
Speaker 3: you could have that chat with them, you know, at
Speaker 3: thirty weeks or when you book with them if you
Speaker 3: want to, you know, ten twelve weeks, and about where
Speaker 3: they like to deliver, where they recommend that you should
Speaker 3: deliver it, if you had any risk factors as to
Speaker 3: whether if you deliver it at home, you know that
Speaker 3: would be you know, you'd have some risk factors for that,
Speaker 3: or you know best to deliver in the hospital. So yeah,
Speaker 3: I mean the whole ALMC model that we have in
Speaker 3: New Zealand is so wonderful in which women and their
Speaker 3: partners and families work together in partnership with their LMC.
Speaker 3: So everything, every single decision should be made together for
Speaker 3: the best of you guys and the best outcome for
Speaker 3: your baby.
Speaker 5: Yeah.
Speaker 6: I guess.
Speaker 8: Yeah, that's the most important thing at the end of
Speaker 8: the day, isn't it. If you've got if you've enough
Speaker 8: time to be educated around like saying what the risk
Speaker 8: collectors are, all those sort of things, then at and
Speaker 8: I actually make sure that the children are born into
Speaker 8: the world.
Speaker 4: Well exactly.
Speaker 2: Hey, thank you, Steve. I do have to stop there.
Speaker 2: We've got to get to the news. Thank you, Steve.
Speaker 2: Thank you to everyone that's called Grace. Thanks for your time.
Speaker 2: You've done awesome.
Speaker 4: Oh thanks, thank you for having me, love to being here.
Speaker 2: Pleasure. That's it for the week in collective. A big
Speaker 2: thanks to my producer Tyra to all of our guests today.
Speaker 2: Roman is standing by within my day have a wonderful evening,
Speaker 2: New Zealand. Some one We're back.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's all. For more from the Weekend Collective, listen
Speaker 1: live to news talks it'd be weekends from three pm,
Speaker 1: or follow the podcast on iHeartRadio