WEBVTT - Grace Strange: Drastic increase in women requesting c-sections 0:00:05.721 --> 0:00:09.921 You're listening to the Weekend Collective podcast from News Talks ab. 0:00:12.081 --> 0:00:30.561 Ant Together News Talk c e B Weekend Collective. Six 0:00:30.601 --> 0:00:33.321 minutes past five, I'm Jess with you through until six 0:00:33.401 --> 0:00:36.561 o'clock and it's my pleasure for the first time on 0:00:36.721 --> 0:00:40.641 the Parents Squad to welcome midwife Grace Strange. Hi, Grace, Hello, 0:00:40.761 --> 0:00:43.161 how are you very well? Thank you and thanks for 0:00:43.201 --> 0:00:46.281 making time for us. Now, you're a midwife and founder 0:00:46.321 --> 0:00:49.321 of Anti Natal Co. Can you tell us just a 0:00:49.321 --> 0:00:52.201 bit about yourself and your background as being a midwife. 0:00:52.481 --> 0:00:56.201 Yeah, so I've been a midwife for thirteen years in Auckland, 0:00:56.841 --> 0:00:59.841 mostly a hospital based midwife, so we worked across the 0:00:59.881 --> 0:01:03.681 whole spectrum of birth and post natal and anti natal 0:01:04.001 --> 0:01:07.921 and then I've been running inten intenatal classes for about 0:01:07.921 --> 0:01:08.721 seven years. 0:01:09.001 --> 0:01:11.521 Wow. Wow, I want to get into the antenatal class 0:01:11.601 --> 0:01:15.961 chat at some point this hour. Absolutely, And just before 0:01:15.961 --> 0:01:19.001 we get into the chat itself, are you noticing still 0:01:19.121 --> 0:01:22.721 a shortage of midwives? What's the landscape like? 0:01:23.001 --> 0:01:27.161 Oh yeah, yep, definitely massive shortage of midwives. There's work 0:01:27.241 --> 0:01:31.321 everywhere all over the country, so yeah, we need more. 0:01:31.361 --> 0:01:34.881 If anyone wants to study. 0:01:33.961 --> 0:01:38.321 We definitely do Yep, people are still having babies, absolutely, 0:01:38.361 --> 0:01:42.761 they always will now. A great statistics from Auckland Hospital 0:01:42.761 --> 0:01:46.361 show there's been a dramatic increase in women requesting sea 0:01:46.401 --> 0:01:49.161 sections in recent years, but a drop in women actually 0:01:49.201 --> 0:01:52.721 getting elective sea sections. Unfortunately. The numbers also show that 0:01:52.761 --> 0:01:56.721 the amount of emergency sea sections has increased. Could this 0:01:56.801 --> 0:01:59.441 be related and why are so many people asking for 0:01:59.561 --> 0:02:00.321 sea sections? 0:02:01.801 --> 0:02:02.001 Yeah? 0:02:02.041 --> 0:02:02.761 So the sea section. 0:02:02.841 --> 0:02:07.281 So Orkland Hospital puts out a their statistics every year 0:02:07.321 --> 0:02:09.961 for the last twenty years, and so this year is 0:02:10.001 --> 0:02:12.721 the first year that they've shown that their sea section 0:02:12.841 --> 0:02:17.841 rate is higher than their spontaneous vaginal birth rate. So 0:02:18.721 --> 0:02:23.081 is a concerning stat for lots of people. Reasons why 0:02:23.161 --> 0:02:26.641 this Maybe there's that Orkan Hospital, first and foremost is 0:02:26.681 --> 0:02:30.401 a tertiary hospital, which means that they deal with the 0:02:30.441 --> 0:02:35.321 most sick people, women and babies, so therefore higher chances 0:02:35.361 --> 0:02:39.121 of having a sea section. But also my personal opinion 0:02:39.241 --> 0:02:42.441 is that we're older. I'm thirty five and I had 0:02:42.561 --> 0:02:45.841 just had my first baby last year, and we're all 0:02:45.881 --> 0:02:47.681 we're all, you know, we're not in our early twenties 0:02:47.761 --> 0:02:50.881 having babies anymore. So I think I personally think that 0:02:50.921 --> 0:02:53.801 this has a huge impact on not saying that you 0:02:53.841 --> 0:02:56.361 know women older women can't have lovely vaginal births, but 0:02:57.281 --> 0:03:02.841 you know the rate of emergency sea sections is very high, 0:03:02.881 --> 0:03:05.201 and so yeah, it could be a reason why is 0:03:05.241 --> 0:03:09.481 because we're just we're old, we're geriatric. I'm geriatric thirty 0:03:09.481 --> 0:03:11.401 five and I'm a geriatric pregnancy. 0:03:12.081 --> 0:03:12.321 I know. 0:03:12.401 --> 0:03:15.001 I had my son when I was thirty and they 0:03:15.161 --> 0:03:18.601 mentioned geriatric to me and I was going, what on earth? 0:03:18.721 --> 0:03:22.881 But just before we carry on eight hundred eighty ten eighty, 0:03:22.881 --> 0:03:26.161 if you've got any questions for midwife Grace Strange around 0:03:27.081 --> 0:03:30.241 not only the C section aspect of things, but I 0:03:30.281 --> 0:03:31.841 want to know what are some of the things you 0:03:31.881 --> 0:03:34.281 were never told before you became a grandparent or a 0:03:34.321 --> 0:03:37.801 parent and would have changed the way you did things. 0:03:37.961 --> 0:03:40.801 What advice do you wish that you'd been told, or 0:03:40.841 --> 0:03:44.481 what advice would you give to your grandchildren or children 0:03:44.521 --> 0:03:45.481 having kids? 0:03:45.521 --> 0:03:45.721 Now? 0:03:45.801 --> 0:03:47.841 Oh, eight hundred eighty ten eighty, or if you've got 0:03:47.841 --> 0:03:51.441 any questions relating to parenting for Grace, we'd love to 0:03:51.441 --> 0:03:54.961 hear from you all. Nineteen nine two, Now, Grace, what 0:03:55.001 --> 0:03:58.201 are the statistics around do you have figures around how 0:03:58.201 --> 0:04:00.161 many women are actually having them. 0:04:00.521 --> 0:04:02.481 I do, so I'm only going off the Ugland hospital 0:04:02.521 --> 0:04:04.441 ones because they have the best and have done a 0:04:04.441 --> 0:04:07.321 best job at giving them. So in this report, they've 0:04:07.361 --> 0:04:11.001 released the twenty twenty three stats which they released in 0:04:11.041 --> 0:04:19.601 August last year, so they're the c section rate was 0:04:19.641 --> 0:04:22.561 at forty four point six percent of all births. So 0:04:22.601 --> 0:04:25.401 there was five seven hundred births at a hospital last year, 0:04:25.881 --> 0:04:29.841 forty four point six percent of them were c sections 0:04:30.241 --> 0:04:33.001 and only forty two point nine of them were spontaneous 0:04:33.081 --> 0:04:39.921 vaginal births. Wow, okay, and so big, you know, big, big, 0:04:40.001 --> 0:04:44.121 big change, big times being at more than more than 0:04:44.641 --> 0:04:50.641 previous times. So with the with that statistic, twenty nine 0:04:50.721 --> 0:04:53.681 point four percent of them were emergency and fifteen point 0:04:53.761 --> 0:04:56.961 two percent of them were an elective. Now, if you 0:04:57.001 --> 0:05:01.081 were a first time mum, then your chances of having 0:05:01.161 --> 0:05:04.121 a C section were at forty eight point nine percent. 0:05:04.481 --> 0:05:07.601 So the first time I'm giving birth last year in 0:05:07.601 --> 0:05:10.561 twenty twenty three, sorry, you had almost a fifty percent 0:05:10.641 --> 0:05:13.281 chance of having a c section. And this definitely was 0:05:13.321 --> 0:05:14.921 reflected in my internet of classes. 0:05:15.441 --> 0:05:16.641 So I met it. 0:05:16.601 --> 0:05:19.481 With the girls after they've had their babies for their 0:05:19.481 --> 0:05:22.561 first coffee group and I would say definitely at least 0:05:22.561 --> 0:05:25.561 fifty percent of them are having C sections. 0:05:26.161 --> 0:05:29.001 And why do you think that people are actually asking 0:05:29.041 --> 0:05:31.881 for them more? Is it becoming I don't want to 0:05:31.881 --> 0:05:35.001 say an easier option, but people perceiving it to be 0:05:35.081 --> 0:05:38.521 the easier way because the recovery time seems to be 0:05:38.801 --> 0:05:39.481 much longer. 0:05:40.201 --> 0:05:43.081 The recovery time can be much longer you are having, 0:05:43.281 --> 0:05:47.121 you know, quite a full on abdominal surgery. However, if 0:05:47.161 --> 0:05:51.081 you had a really awful rugged vaginal birth, you could 0:05:51.121 --> 0:05:56.921 have lifelong recovery effects from that. So I think people 0:05:56.921 --> 0:06:00.961 are requesting them because they like. 0:06:00.961 --> 0:06:03.961 To be in control. It could be a reason. 0:06:04.201 --> 0:06:07.401 You know, we've had we're older, having babies older, so 0:06:07.841 --> 0:06:10.081 you know, we've had these lovely careers that we've been 0:06:10.121 --> 0:06:12.281 in charge of, and so you know, it's quite handy 0:06:12.401 --> 0:06:14.361 to know the date and the time that your baby's 0:06:14.401 --> 0:06:19.081 going to be falling. Also rask Also again we're having 0:06:19.121 --> 0:06:22.841 babies older. Lots and lots and lots of people, including myself, 0:06:23.001 --> 0:06:27.401 you know, needed reproductive assistance or IVF to get pregnant. Sure, 0:06:27.441 --> 0:06:31.641 and so a elective sitey section again is a controlled 0:06:31.721 --> 0:06:35.641 environment where you can can mostly control the outcome. There's 0:06:35.641 --> 0:06:38.841 a lot less you know, up in the are of 0:06:38.841 --> 0:06:42.801 how it's going to go. Sure, so yeah, I think, yeah, 0:06:43.361 --> 0:06:46.881 I mean I personally, I know, I'm a midwife and 0:06:47.161 --> 0:06:50.721 I have been to many births, but for me, I 0:06:51.121 --> 0:06:54.001 had an elective site section, which is a very un 0:06:54.041 --> 0:06:55.721 Midwifi thing to say and do. 0:06:56.401 --> 0:07:00.761 I was gonna say that because midwives prefer naturlutely. 0:07:01.201 --> 0:07:04.041 Yes, Okay, I'm like, I'm a I'm an enigma. I'm 0:07:04.041 --> 0:07:08.681 not the I'm not your traditional midwife. But again, old, 0:07:08.721 --> 0:07:11.241 I'm older. I had a real bit reproductive, you know, 0:07:11.281 --> 0:07:14.401 assistance to get pregnant, and from all the thousands and 0:07:14.441 --> 0:07:17.441 thousands of births that I've been to, that personally felt 0:07:17.481 --> 0:07:17.761 like the. 0:07:17.681 --> 0:07:18.601 Best choice for me. 0:07:19.041 --> 0:07:21.281 Sure, and I had I was able, you know, I 0:07:21.321 --> 0:07:23.841 was d after by an obstrician, and so I was 0:07:24.001 --> 0:07:27.921 able to choose that. Certainly, not everybody gets to choose that. 0:07:28.041 --> 0:07:32.641 If you don't have a paid for obstetrician then and 0:07:32.761 --> 0:07:35.041 you don't have a you know, you're likely to you're 0:07:35.121 --> 0:07:38.081 less likely, sorry to get an elective sea section. 0:07:38.241 --> 0:07:40.881 And i'd imagine too grace if someone's walking and saying 0:07:40.881 --> 0:07:43.481 I want it born on the fourteenth of February because 0:07:43.481 --> 0:07:46.401 that's Valentine's Day or whatever. You know, if you don't 0:07:46.441 --> 0:07:49.641 have a really justified reason and resources are quite short, 0:07:50.201 --> 0:07:52.001 the chances are you're probably not going to get what 0:07:52.001 --> 0:07:52.721 you're asking for. 0:07:52.841 --> 0:07:56.161 Yeah, yeah, definitely, And you also don't get control. So 0:07:56.201 --> 0:07:58.801 as much as I on the date, sorry, as much 0:07:58.801 --> 0:08:01.441 as I wanted a sea section, you don't get to 0:08:01.521 --> 0:08:03.281 choose the fourteenth of February. 0:08:03.641 --> 0:08:04.921 That's the hospital's job. 0:08:04.761 --> 0:08:07.761 To fair enough, to fair enough to oh wait, one 0:08:07.841 --> 0:08:09.561 hundred and eighty ten eighty. We'd love to have your 0:08:09.601 --> 0:08:12.601 calls on this. Whether you've had an experience with a 0:08:12.721 --> 0:08:16.561 C section yourself, what was it? Straightforward? Do you wish 0:08:16.561 --> 0:08:19.001 that you'd had one or wish you hadn't? You can 0:08:19.041 --> 0:08:20.921 text through to nine two nine two as well. Grace 0:08:21.001 --> 0:08:23.681 is here to answer all parenting all range of parenting 0:08:23.801 --> 0:08:26.961 questions for you this hour. And then another question, what 0:08:27.001 --> 0:08:29.641 are some of the things you were never told before 0:08:29.681 --> 0:08:32.681 you became a parent or a grandparent and would it 0:08:32.721 --> 0:08:37.041 have changed the way you did things? Grace. I guess 0:08:37.121 --> 0:08:40.601 as a midwife yourself, you would be hearing all sorts 0:08:40.601 --> 0:08:43.921 of secondary advice or people on you know, both sides, 0:08:44.001 --> 0:08:47.801 especially for a first time parent getting advice contradicting itself 0:08:47.801 --> 0:08:48.561 all over the show. 0:08:48.921 --> 0:08:52.681 Oh yeah, welcome to parenthood, even in the hospital, and 0:08:53.001 --> 0:08:54.841 people say that to me, I did a lot of 0:08:54.881 --> 0:08:57.841 work in the post natal, in the immediate post natal space, 0:08:57.881 --> 0:09:00.041 so the first three to five days after people have 0:09:00.121 --> 0:09:04.121 given birth, and that the biggest bed banker that we 0:09:04.161 --> 0:09:07.921 would get. As it feels there's a lot of conflicting 0:09:08.041 --> 0:09:11.841 advice and would you potentially could see you know, up 0:09:11.841 --> 0:09:14.521 to five different midwives or nurses looking after you in 0:09:14.561 --> 0:09:17.001 a twenty four hour period, and they're all going to 0:09:17.001 --> 0:09:19.881 have slightly different ways of doing stuff, which is very, 0:09:20.121 --> 0:09:23.201 very challenging. And I do have a lot of empathy 0:09:23.281 --> 0:09:26.961 for people who go through that, and in saying that, 0:09:27.041 --> 0:09:29.961 the advice that I would give you on day one 0:09:30.201 --> 0:09:32.881 with your baby is different to what I would give 0:09:32.921 --> 0:09:37.361 you one day five. So that does add to you know, 0:09:37.481 --> 0:09:40.921 that feels like conflicting, but you know, actually it goes 0:09:41.001 --> 0:09:41.881 with them. 0:09:41.801 --> 0:09:45.081 True, true, because no one's the same either, are they. 0:09:45.321 --> 0:09:48.121 Each baby's going to have a different set of challenges 0:09:48.321 --> 0:09:50.921 and each parent's going to have a different set of challenges. 0:09:51.201 --> 0:09:54.561 Do you find that well, given that we are, we 0:09:54.681 --> 0:09:58.361 seem to be having babies later. As you say, do 0:09:58.161 --> 0:10:01.441 you think that control aspect, people are kind of googling 0:10:01.481 --> 0:10:03.641 a lot more and trying to have a set plane 0:10:03.681 --> 0:10:06.401 in their mind before they actually have child about a 0:10:06.401 --> 0:10:08.841 specific way they're going to raise them or deal with them. 0:10:09.201 --> 0:10:12.561 Absolutely, and I think social media has a massive part 0:10:12.641 --> 0:10:13.161 to play in. 0:10:13.121 --> 0:10:14.721 That, right. 0:10:14.881 --> 0:10:17.401 And I think, you know, even as a midwife and 0:10:17.481 --> 0:10:20.041 all that I knew, I mean, we only work for 0:10:20.081 --> 0:10:23.201 the first in the first six weeks after having a baby, 0:10:23.681 --> 0:10:25.481 that in all that I knew and all that I 0:10:25.601 --> 0:10:29.641 was prepared, I still found it very overwhelming. And I 0:10:29.681 --> 0:10:32.521 think partly that was to do with the social media 0:10:32.521 --> 0:10:35.721 that I was consuming. Because everyone has a different piece 0:10:35.761 --> 0:10:40.321 of advice, and everyone has a completely different piece of advice, 0:10:40.921 --> 0:10:44.121 and all those people are so called experts, and if 0:10:44.161 --> 0:10:47.441 you don't do it their way, then you're wrong and 0:10:47.481 --> 0:10:50.921 you're gonna hurt your baby or you know, oh, you know. 0:10:51.041 --> 0:10:53.441 It's just it's so intense, and as a mum, you 0:10:53.561 --> 0:10:56.241 want to do the best thing for your child, and 0:10:56.281 --> 0:10:59.001 they're all claiming that this is the best thing, and 0:10:59.121 --> 0:11:03.201 so you know, on top of your already sleep deprived, right, 0:11:03.961 --> 0:11:05.361 you have to figure out what you're. 0:11:05.281 --> 0:11:05.681 Going to do. 0:11:06.441 --> 0:11:10.361 Oh yes, and all the emotions flowing through you. Actually, Grace, 0:11:10.401 --> 0:11:11.961 we've got to text through here you might be able 0:11:12.001 --> 0:11:15.161 to answer it, says Hi, I had an emergency C section, 0:11:15.281 --> 0:11:17.801 so no judgment, But do you think New Zealand women 0:11:17.841 --> 0:11:20.241 are fully informed of the risks of a sea section 0:11:20.561 --> 0:11:23.441 for baby in terms of long term effects on baby's health. 0:11:23.761 --> 0:11:26.761 I find it's sad that C section is the rate 0:11:26.881 --> 0:11:29.721 so much higher. I feel it's a magic experience in 0:11:29.881 --> 0:11:32.401 so primal it should be a thing we have control of. 0:11:32.481 --> 0:11:36.321 So do you think women are fully informed when it happens, 0:11:36.361 --> 0:11:37.761 even if it's an emergency one. 0:11:38.881 --> 0:11:43.121 Look, I think that midwaves and obstitutions do the best 0:11:43.321 --> 0:11:47.801 that they can in that scenario, and they certainly tell 0:11:47.881 --> 0:11:50.201 you a lot of the risks and they make you 0:11:50.321 --> 0:11:53.401 sign consent forms to say that you understand what you're 0:11:53.441 --> 0:11:56.841 going to do. But I think given the scenario of 0:11:56.881 --> 0:12:00.241 an emergency C section, there's not you know, hours and 0:12:00.281 --> 0:12:02.281 hours to chat about the pros and cons of the 0:12:02.321 --> 0:12:06.041 whole thing. So you I feel like this is where 0:12:06.081 --> 0:12:10.761 antenatal education is really important, where people you know, can 0:12:10.801 --> 0:12:13.681 come to a great glass and they get to understand 0:12:13.761 --> 0:12:16.841 what's involved in an actual surgery, what are the risks 0:12:16.841 --> 0:12:18.561 to the mum, what are the risks to the baby? 0:12:18.961 --> 0:12:22.041 And I also think exactly the same thing should be 0:12:22.081 --> 0:12:24.721 true for a vaginal birth, because as much as we 0:12:24.841 --> 0:12:27.561 think vaginal births are awesome and lots of the time they are, 0:12:28.081 --> 0:12:32.961 there are certainly risks to you and your baby and 0:12:33.041 --> 0:12:35.201 a vaginal birth as well. And we don't make parents 0:12:35.241 --> 0:12:37.321 signed consents for a vaginal birth. 0:12:38.761 --> 0:12:39.281 Make science. 0:12:40.521 --> 0:12:44.041 So I think in general, across the board, there could 0:12:44.081 --> 0:12:46.801 be a lot more you know, education around both sides 0:12:46.841 --> 0:12:48.561 and the risks and benefits. 0:12:48.161 --> 0:12:50.761 Of both sides. Yes, yeah, thank you, So you can 0:12:50.841 --> 0:12:52.481 text it if you don't want to go on your 0:12:52.521 --> 0:12:54.801 nine two nine two. Grace would love to hear from 0:12:54.841 --> 0:12:56.681 you today, or you can call a weight hundred eighty 0:12:56.761 --> 0:13:00.281 ten eighty. We're discussing c sections at the moment, if 0:13:00.321 --> 0:13:03.121 you've got any questions about those, or maybe an experience 0:13:03.201 --> 0:13:05.441 that you went through that you want to share with 0:13:05.561 --> 0:13:07.921 us on eight hundred and eighty ten eighty. And also 0:13:08.121 --> 0:13:09.801 some of the things you had never told before you 0:13:09.921 --> 0:13:14.281 became a grandparent or parent, the advice you've received would 0:13:14.361 --> 0:13:17.041 have changed the way you did things if you were 0:13:17.121 --> 0:13:19.881 told this piece of advice. Now, oh, eight hundred and 0:13:19.881 --> 0:13:22.321 eighty ten eighty we we're heading to the phones now 0:13:22.361 --> 0:13:23.841 and we have Mark with us. High Mark. 0:13:24.761 --> 0:13:26.321 Good, I guy, I tell you very well. 0:13:26.361 --> 0:13:26.561 Thanks. 0:13:26.601 --> 0:13:27.881 So you've got a question for Grace. 0:13:29.041 --> 0:13:34.481 Well, actually I had well we had twins, and so 0:13:34.641 --> 0:13:37.521 we were sort of advised to being a high risk pregnancy, 0:13:37.641 --> 0:13:39.401 the best way was to go through and have a 0:13:39.481 --> 0:13:44.681 sea section. But I just feel like back then we 0:13:44.841 --> 0:13:49.601 probably didn't get enough on advice to you know, the 0:13:49.641 --> 0:13:53.841 pros and pros and cons, and the biggest one being 0:13:54.121 --> 0:13:58.721 that obviously the mother's milk didn't come through because she 0:13:58.801 --> 0:14:03.881 hadn't gone into labor, so we were like five days 0:14:04.201 --> 0:14:07.121 after the kid to be born before her milk actually 0:14:07.281 --> 0:14:11.721 came through. So that was a long period of stress. 0:14:12.761 --> 0:14:17.681 I feel for mum and she agrees with that, and 0:14:17.841 --> 0:14:20.881 also for the kids because they're just not getting the 0:14:21.001 --> 0:14:25.561 nutrient and everything that they needed at the time, and 0:14:26.161 --> 0:14:30.201 being in the public hospital, it wasn't really you know, 0:14:30.521 --> 0:14:34.961 it was really was only one nurse who said you 0:14:35.041 --> 0:14:39.321 should go down the road and buy some milk to 0:14:39.401 --> 0:14:44.801 make up really to feed your feed your baby. So 0:14:44.921 --> 0:14:48.961 it was a very stressful periods and you just wonder 0:14:49.241 --> 0:14:52.441 does that have any effect on the kids, you know, 0:14:52.641 --> 0:14:56.161 going forward and that in that short little window of life. 0:14:56.761 --> 0:15:01.481 So I'll let Grace answer this with twins, Twins is 0:15:01.481 --> 0:15:04.921 obviously a very unique situation as well. Yes, yeah, yes. 0:15:05.041 --> 0:15:08.921 So the reason why twins often are advised to be 0:15:09.161 --> 0:15:13.041 delivered by a sea section is it depends on the 0:15:13.161 --> 0:15:16.041 leading twins. So the twin that's coming out first, whether 0:15:16.081 --> 0:15:19.121 they're head down or bottom down. So if they are 0:15:19.361 --> 0:15:22.281 head down, then there is the potential that you could 0:15:22.321 --> 0:15:24.801 have a vaginal birth for the first baby. If the 0:15:24.881 --> 0:15:27.641 second baby is also hit down, then that baby should 0:15:27.641 --> 0:15:30.201 also come out vaginally head down. If that second baby 0:15:30.361 --> 0:15:36.161 is bottom down, then the doctors could hopefully manually turn 0:15:36.201 --> 0:15:38.281 that baby so that it is head down to deliver it. 0:15:38.361 --> 0:15:41.441 There are lots of risks to delivering babies who are 0:15:41.481 --> 0:15:44.081 bottomed down or who are breached. Not impossible, but a 0:15:44.161 --> 0:15:48.841 lot more risks. So in the scenario where there's a 0:15:48.881 --> 0:15:51.601 baby who is head down first and then the second 0:15:51.641 --> 0:15:53.841 baby is bottom down, there is the risk that you 0:15:53.921 --> 0:15:56.801 could deliver the first baby by vaginally and then if 0:15:56.841 --> 0:15:58.721 they can't turn the second baby, then you have to 0:15:58.801 --> 0:16:02.161 god have a sea section for that baby, So you 0:16:02.201 --> 0:16:04.041 don't want to have vaginal birth and a sea section 0:16:04.441 --> 0:16:08.561 because a lot for your Yeah, so I'm not sure 0:16:09.121 --> 0:16:11.681 and what your scenario was, but for whatever reason, they 0:16:11.721 --> 0:16:14.081 decided that that the safest way for your babies to 0:16:14.161 --> 0:16:15.041 be born was. 0:16:16.321 --> 0:16:18.801 That was very early on and we and we did 0:16:18.881 --> 0:16:20.841 actually have a date. We didn't get to choo to 0:16:20.921 --> 0:16:24.681 date as you but we had a date when you well, 0:16:24.801 --> 0:16:28.081 we had to be in this area because we're you know, 0:16:28.281 --> 0:16:31.961 rural close to the hospital two weeks prior to that 0:16:32.121 --> 0:16:38.721 date just in case. Yeah. But also I think maybe potentially, 0:16:39.121 --> 0:16:41.521 you know a lot of people think that the older 0:16:41.561 --> 0:16:44.481 that we get, but potentially maybe that's why we're having 0:16:45.681 --> 0:16:48.121 twins as well. There seems to be more set to 0:16:48.161 --> 0:16:51.601 twins in the small little area we were where we 0:16:51.761 --> 0:16:55.601 were in twenty ten, there were eleven sets to twins. Wow, 0:16:55.761 --> 0:16:59.081 And it's just like and it was not was not ivy. 0:16:59.561 --> 0:17:03.161 There was one couple that did IVS and but we 0:17:03.321 --> 0:17:07.441 were what you would call, you know, mid dirties. Yeah, 0:17:08.161 --> 0:17:12.321 so whords, Yeah, it was that's definitely our sort of 0:17:12.481 --> 0:17:17.041 parents lifetime. When they were doing the same sort of scenario, 0:17:17.361 --> 0:17:20.161 it's just not that's frequent. 0:17:20.601 --> 0:17:23.001 Yeah, No, definitely, what do we get there seems to 0:17:23.041 --> 0:17:24.841 be the more common twins now, that's for sure. 0:17:26.001 --> 0:17:29.361 And what Mark was saying there Grace about the being 0:17:29.681 --> 0:17:31.801 having a C section in the milk not coming through. 0:17:32.201 --> 0:17:35.081 Do you do you think, as Mark said that going 0:17:35.121 --> 0:17:37.521 down and getting the formula, that when I had my son, 0:17:37.601 --> 0:17:39.921 I was in Jews, so I didn't have milk either 0:17:40.001 --> 0:17:43.561 and I felt, unfortunately, was made to feel shame for 0:17:43.681 --> 0:17:45.201 having to go and get formula. 0:17:45.721 --> 0:17:49.961 Is that still the same, did you have that Mark massively? 0:17:51.001 --> 0:17:52.761 Yeah, I personally think it. 0:17:52.841 --> 0:17:56.241 Was so unfortunate. It was really unfortunate, and I feel 0:17:56.321 --> 0:18:00.601 that it brought stress on my partner. And at the 0:18:00.721 --> 0:18:03.081 end of the day, mum's happy. Kids are going to 0:18:03.121 --> 0:18:06.321 be happy. It's simple, simple way for life that they're 0:18:06.321 --> 0:18:10.641 feeding off mum. Then you know it's a game changer. 0:18:11.321 --> 0:18:13.681 And I tell you what, within the twenty four hours 0:18:13.761 --> 0:18:16.801 of bringing in some formula, the kids were way more 0:18:16.841 --> 0:18:20.041 settled and so was Mum. And it doesn't mean that 0:18:20.121 --> 0:18:22.401 it's going to be that way forever. And it's good 0:18:22.441 --> 0:18:24.961 to get mum back on breast is best, is what 0:18:25.081 --> 0:18:28.001 you're always told, but at the end of the day, 0:18:28.521 --> 0:18:33.801 if they're not feeding, they're starving to death. That's like traumatic, 0:18:34.161 --> 0:18:35.281 absolutely everyone. 0:18:35.481 --> 0:18:39.841 It's so so tough, and certainly not everyone who has 0:18:39.921 --> 0:18:43.761 a C section. Their milk is not necessarily delayed. So 0:18:44.001 --> 0:18:49.241 that's not everybody's it's not everybody's experience, and there are 0:18:49.361 --> 0:18:53.361 lots of reasons why it might be delayed and why 0:18:53.401 --> 0:18:56.881 you might need formula. And I personally think that the 0:18:57.201 --> 0:19:02.441 intense pro breastfeeding environment that we have, particularly in the hospitals, 0:19:03.121 --> 0:19:06.441 is awful. They make you, you know that they don't 0:19:06.561 --> 0:19:09.641 give we don't give formula to babies unless it's deemed 0:19:09.801 --> 0:19:15.081 medically necessary. And even in that scenario where it's you know, 0:19:15.361 --> 0:19:20.361 life saving, we make parents sign consent forms like they're 0:19:20.401 --> 0:19:22.361 signing away they're giving them like you know. 0:19:22.761 --> 0:19:25.761 Drugs or something exactly exactly. 0:19:25.961 --> 0:19:28.601 Yeah, I just think the whole environment is it's already 0:19:28.721 --> 0:19:31.081 so stressful and then adding that whole thing on top 0:19:31.121 --> 0:19:32.841 of the air and making you feel bad about it, 0:19:34.001 --> 0:19:34.841 and you know, it's. 0:19:34.801 --> 0:19:38.801 Just all it's just another stress. It's just another stress. Hey, Mark, 0:19:38.881 --> 0:19:41.521 thank you for sharing your experience. The other kids doing 0:19:41.561 --> 0:19:42.081 well now. 0:19:42.801 --> 0:19:47.201 Yeah, yeah, teenagers fifteen year olds. We're doing well and 0:19:47.881 --> 0:19:50.001 at the end of the day, you know, you can't 0:19:50.081 --> 0:19:53.521 stand up kids in the lineup and go you had 0:19:54.801 --> 0:19:58.121 breast milk, you know. Yeah, so no, there might be 0:19:58.241 --> 0:20:00.801 little things that lead on to it. But hey, we 0:20:00.881 --> 0:20:02.921 don't know everything, No, we don't. Mark. 0:20:03.001 --> 0:20:05.361 Hey, thank you very much for sharing your story. Thank 0:20:05.401 --> 0:20:07.921 you for being such a wonderful support for your wife 0:20:07.961 --> 0:20:08.401 at that time. 0:20:08.481 --> 0:20:09.281 To applaud you. 0:20:09.601 --> 0:20:11.841 Oh eight hundred eighty ten eighty. If you've got an 0:20:11.921 --> 0:20:14.801 experience or a question for Grace, please do give us 0:20:14.841 --> 0:20:16.641 a call or you can text through nine two nine two. 0:20:16.681 --> 0:20:19.401 We'll just take a short break the Parenting Squad here 0:20:19.481 --> 0:20:22.161 on the Weekend Collective. It's twenty six minutes past five, 0:20:22.281 --> 0:20:25.041 News Talk S'DB twenty nine minutes past five. I'm Jess 0:20:25.081 --> 0:20:28.081 with you through until six o'clock and the Parents Squad 0:20:28.161 --> 0:20:32.081 hour on the Weekend Collective. We're chatting with midwife Grace Strange. 0:20:32.121 --> 0:20:34.961 She's a midwife and founder of Anti Natal Co. And 0:20:35.081 --> 0:20:37.681 we're taking your calls. Oh, eight hundred eighty ten eighty. 0:20:37.801 --> 0:20:39.481 You can text through nine two nine two if you 0:20:39.521 --> 0:20:42.721 have any questions around the C section aspect, but also 0:20:43.481 --> 0:20:46.761 childbirth and the birthing process. I want to chat about 0:20:46.761 --> 0:20:49.081 anti natal classes very soon as well, but we do 0:20:49.241 --> 0:20:51.601 have Tessa on the line now, Hi Tessa. 0:20:52.881 --> 0:20:53.801 Hello, Hi guys. 0:20:54.081 --> 0:20:59.441 Hi, Hey, I wanted to share. So if there was 0:20:59.481 --> 0:21:01.881 something that I wish I got told, sure, I've got 0:21:01.921 --> 0:21:05.561 a ten months dog, So I would say the concept 0:21:05.601 --> 0:21:09.641 of the fourth trimester. Have you talked about that yet today? No? 0:21:09.921 --> 0:21:10.521 No, go for it. 0:21:10.601 --> 0:21:12.161 What was your what was your experience? 0:21:13.321 --> 0:21:17.201 So my parents are similar to a huge amount of woman, 0:21:17.281 --> 0:21:19.401 which is all these problems come up, you know when 0:21:19.441 --> 0:21:23.001 you have a baby that sleep and feeding, and I 0:21:23.201 --> 0:21:26.121 really think can be resolved with some background knowledge about 0:21:26.121 --> 0:21:29.121 the idea of the fourth trimester, which is that humans 0:21:29.241 --> 0:21:33.161 are a kind of mammal where we're born prematurely. All 0:21:33.241 --> 0:21:36.281 babies are born prematurely, even full term ones. So when 0:21:36.321 --> 0:21:39.081 they come out of the womb, they're still have a 0:21:39.281 --> 0:21:42.721 high need on parents, and we put so much pressure 0:21:42.761 --> 0:21:47.321