1 00:00:00,040 --> 00:00:02,800 Speaker 1: The government speaking tomorrow, are going to be letting us 2 00:00:02,840 --> 00:00:05,040 Speaker 1: know if the oil becomes a real issue, what the 3 00:00:05,160 --> 00:00:08,520 Speaker 1: plan is. But meantime, the Ministry of Education apparently is 4 00:00:08,560 --> 00:00:11,920 Speaker 1: working on some remote learning options now. The Associate Minister 5 00:00:12,000 --> 00:00:14,040 Speaker 1: of Education is, of course David Seymour, who's with us. 6 00:00:14,080 --> 00:00:16,560 Speaker 1: Good morning, Good morning. Make the stories I'm hearing relief 7 00:00:16,560 --> 00:00:19,120 Speaker 1: teachers canceling. How real is that? How big a problem 8 00:00:19,200 --> 00:00:20,600 Speaker 1: is this in education at the moment. 9 00:00:21,600 --> 00:00:25,200 Speaker 2: I think whenever you have a situation like this, it's 10 00:00:25,360 --> 00:00:29,120 Speaker 2: always tempting to take an example of something that may 11 00:00:29,240 --> 00:00:32,559 Speaker 2: happen every day, view it through the lens of a 12 00:00:32,600 --> 00:00:35,800 Speaker 2: perceived crisis, and then infate it further. That's how this 13 00:00:35,880 --> 00:00:39,199 Speaker 2: momentum gets going. I'm determined that we're going to learn 14 00:00:39,240 --> 00:00:43,200 Speaker 2: the lessons of COVID and be sensible. In the last week, 15 00:00:43,360 --> 00:00:46,640 Speaker 2: we've had days where school attendance across the country was 16 00:00:46,720 --> 00:00:50,400 Speaker 2: ninety one percent. That is very very good because we 17 00:00:50,560 --> 00:00:53,000 Speaker 2: and it's possible to know that because we track attendance 18 00:00:53,080 --> 00:00:56,560 Speaker 2: daily now. So I think it's important to keep your 19 00:00:56,720 --> 00:01:00,800 Speaker 2: head on the eye on the data and call head. 20 00:01:00,920 --> 00:01:03,200 Speaker 1: And is everyone keeping the call head or just you? 21 00:01:03,240 --> 00:01:03,960 Speaker 1: Within government? 22 00:01:05,280 --> 00:01:08,800 Speaker 2: I think The government has been very very calm, working 23 00:01:08,880 --> 00:01:13,320 Speaker 2: through what the scenarios are, making sure that if we 24 00:01:13,400 --> 00:01:15,840 Speaker 2: need to go to a demand side plan, and that's 25 00:01:15,880 --> 00:01:18,720 Speaker 2: a long way in the future and it's hypothetical, we 26 00:01:18,760 --> 00:01:22,480 Speaker 2: will have done it properly. Our predecessors through COVID very 27 00:01:22,520 --> 00:01:24,720 Speaker 2: good at making the announcements, not so good at the 28 00:01:24,800 --> 00:01:28,200 Speaker 2: follow up. We are taking a stance of making sure 29 00:01:28,240 --> 00:01:30,640 Speaker 2: we get the work done in the background before we 30 00:01:30,720 --> 00:01:31,880 Speaker 2: rush off to any podiums. 31 00:01:32,120 --> 00:01:35,640 Speaker 1: I dread the idea of kids going back home to learn. 32 00:01:35,720 --> 00:01:38,640 Speaker 1: I'm assuming you do too. What would it take for 33 00:01:38,680 --> 00:01:39,280 Speaker 1: that to happen? 34 00:01:40,720 --> 00:01:43,120 Speaker 2: Well, first of all, is a very strong sense in 35 00:01:43,200 --> 00:01:46,080 Speaker 2: our cabinet that we're not going to repeat the mistake 36 00:01:46,160 --> 00:01:50,080 Speaker 2: of putting education down the totem pole of priorities. For 37 00:01:50,120 --> 00:01:52,120 Speaker 2: that to happen, we would have to get to a 38 00:01:52,200 --> 00:01:56,520 Speaker 2: scenario where there was severe fuel disruptions and we were 39 00:01:56,600 --> 00:02:03,040 Speaker 2: reduced to maintaining essential life supporting services ambulances, police, hospitals 40 00:02:03,440 --> 00:02:06,240 Speaker 2: and essential food supply. But we're not even close to that, 41 00:02:06,720 --> 00:02:09,480 Speaker 2: and the government's response is to work on the supply 42 00:02:09,720 --> 00:02:12,519 Speaker 2: side first. So have the Prime Minister talk to the 43 00:02:12,560 --> 00:02:15,680 Speaker 2: Prime Minister of South Korea, sorry, President of South Korea, 44 00:02:15,720 --> 00:02:19,119 Speaker 2: the Prime Minister of Singapore, tracking the ships, making sure 45 00:02:19,160 --> 00:02:21,680 Speaker 2: the supply is going, working with like minded friends such 46 00:02:21,720 --> 00:02:24,840 Speaker 2: as the Australians, and I think that we can avert that. 47 00:02:25,400 --> 00:02:27,840 Speaker 2: But we're very clear that in the scenario where we 48 00:02:27,919 --> 00:02:31,600 Speaker 2: had to start restricting, we will not be sacrificing education 49 00:02:31,720 --> 00:02:34,320 Speaker 2: the way that it was done last time, because there 50 00:02:34,360 --> 00:02:36,480 Speaker 2: will be a long term future for New Zealand, and 51 00:02:36,520 --> 00:02:39,399 Speaker 2: a lot of that future will be determined by how 52 00:02:39,440 --> 00:02:42,320 Speaker 2: well educated the population is. That will be determined by 53 00:02:42,360 --> 00:02:43,560 Speaker 2: how many children went to school. 54 00:02:43,680 --> 00:02:46,560 Speaker 1: You raise very important point Luckson's discussions, which wasn't covered 55 00:02:46,560 --> 00:02:48,920 Speaker 1: properly in the media at all yesterday. Did he get 56 00:02:49,040 --> 00:02:52,840 Speaker 1: reassurance that we're okay for now? So, in other words, 57 00:02:52,880 --> 00:02:56,760 Speaker 1: beyond the stuff on the water, that beyond that there 58 00:02:56,919 --> 00:02:59,200 Speaker 1: is something for us to be hopeful about or not, 59 00:02:59,360 --> 00:02:59,840 Speaker 1: we don't know. 60 00:03:01,160 --> 00:03:03,639 Speaker 2: Look, I think it's positive that the thing is the 61 00:03:04,000 --> 00:03:05,760 Speaker 2: way I think about this, you've got to look at 62 00:03:06,000 --> 00:03:09,640 Speaker 2: the military situation. Then on top of that layer is 63 00:03:09,760 --> 00:03:13,040 Speaker 2: the fuel supply situation, and then on top of that 64 00:03:13,360 --> 00:03:16,760 Speaker 2: is the policy responses and the business responses that you 65 00:03:16,800 --> 00:03:19,640 Speaker 2: see in New Zealand. The challenge, of course, is the 66 00:03:19,639 --> 00:03:24,160 Speaker 2: military situation. You know, nobody I suspect, including the people 67 00:03:24,200 --> 00:03:27,480 Speaker 2: involved in it, can predict what is going to happen tomorrow, 68 00:03:27,600 --> 00:03:30,640 Speaker 2: let alone next week. So with that uncertainty in the background, 69 00:03:31,240 --> 00:03:33,640 Speaker 2: we're in a very good position, as good as could be. 70 00:03:33,840 --> 00:03:36,240 Speaker 1: Okay, the other thing we got you on this morning, 71 00:03:36,240 --> 00:03:39,120 Speaker 1: this this surcharge thing, is I mean, what the hell's 72 00:03:39,160 --> 00:03:42,960 Speaker 1: going on? Is it on? Or it's off? Look, it's off, right, 73 00:03:43,040 --> 00:03:46,640 Speaker 1: So David Seymour says it's off, full stop. 74 00:03:46,680 --> 00:03:48,680 Speaker 2: Correct, Yes, that's right. 75 00:03:48,760 --> 00:03:51,200 Speaker 1: So Scott Simpson can put out all the press releases 76 00:03:51,240 --> 00:03:52,320 Speaker 1: he wants. He's wrong. 77 00:03:53,560 --> 00:03:55,840 Speaker 2: Well, what he said is he's continuing to work on 78 00:03:56,000 --> 00:03:58,640 Speaker 2: options to reduce those charges, and that's always been the 79 00:03:58,680 --> 00:04:01,640 Speaker 2: desire because people will hate these charges. What's come back 80 00:04:01,640 --> 00:04:04,640 Speaker 2: to us very very strongly is that if it was 81 00:04:04,680 --> 00:04:07,720 Speaker 2: to be banned the way initially proposed, all it would 82 00:04:07,800 --> 00:04:10,240 Speaker 2: do is put costs on too small businesses. So you 83 00:04:10,320 --> 00:04:13,040 Speaker 2: imagine a motel perhaps a husband and wife team put 84 00:04:13,080 --> 00:04:16,320 Speaker 2: their life savings into a million bucks a year through 85 00:04:16,360 --> 00:04:19,840 Speaker 2: the payment system. You take two percent fee that comes 86 00:04:19,839 --> 00:04:22,359 Speaker 2: out of their bottom line, and that is something that 87 00:04:22,400 --> 00:04:25,480 Speaker 2: they can ill afford. What's more, they're likely to somewhat 88 00:04:25,640 --> 00:04:28,240 Speaker 2: if they can put prices up, and that's going to 89 00:04:28,240 --> 00:04:30,440 Speaker 2: be paid by people who use cash and fos. So 90 00:04:30,839 --> 00:04:32,520 Speaker 2: there's a bunch of reasons why you wouldn't do it 91 00:04:32,560 --> 00:04:35,760 Speaker 2: this way. Pamji Palma, the ACTMP in the Select Committee, 92 00:04:36,000 --> 00:04:38,800 Speaker 2: proposed a work through which was that, look, you can 93 00:04:38,839 --> 00:04:41,880 Speaker 2: still charge the fees so long as you also give 94 00:04:41,960 --> 00:04:44,599 Speaker 2: your customers a free option. And that's fair because look, 95 00:04:44,640 --> 00:04:46,880 Speaker 2: if you want payway good, I mean I like using 96 00:04:46,920 --> 00:04:49,919 Speaker 2: it too, but it doesn't seem fair to put the 97 00:04:50,000 --> 00:04:51,719 Speaker 2: costs of that use onto other people. 98 00:04:52,080 --> 00:04:53,720 Speaker 1: So can I say that both of you are right? 99 00:04:53,760 --> 00:04:55,680 Speaker 1: Then yep. 100 00:04:55,760 --> 00:04:59,279 Speaker 2: And often that's the case. People like to catastrophize politics, 101 00:04:59,320 --> 00:05:02,320 Speaker 2: but some time you've got to recognize most people, most 102 00:05:02,360 --> 00:05:04,039 Speaker 2: of the time, they're trying to do the right thing, 103 00:05:04,440 --> 00:05:06,800 Speaker 2: reacting as they get information, just as you've seen with 104 00:05:06,839 --> 00:05:09,880 Speaker 2: this fish thing. So you know that's politics and it's 105 00:05:09,880 --> 00:05:10,400 Speaker 2: no bad thing. 106 00:05:10,640 --> 00:05:13,880 Speaker 1: Right just before you go tomorrow, I don't know if 107 00:05:13,880 --> 00:05:16,360 Speaker 1: it's at one o'clock, but tomorrow's big reveal on what 108 00:05:16,400 --> 00:05:19,640 Speaker 1: the next stages could be. Given your optimistic outlook that 109 00:05:19,680 --> 00:05:22,839 Speaker 1: you've expressed this morning. Is tomorrow going to be anything 110 00:05:22,880 --> 00:05:24,679 Speaker 1: that people are going to spend the weekend getting freaked 111 00:05:24,680 --> 00:05:25,280 Speaker 1: out about or not. 112 00:05:26,520 --> 00:05:28,600 Speaker 2: I think the point of tomorrow will be to make 113 00:05:28,640 --> 00:05:32,360 Speaker 2: sure it's very clear to everybody what would happen if 114 00:05:32,440 --> 00:05:36,000 Speaker 2: there was a major disruption in supply to our country. 115 00:05:36,040 --> 00:05:39,400 Speaker 2: It would be completely reckless not to prepare for that. 116 00:05:39,480 --> 00:05:41,040 Speaker 2: So of course we're doing it, and there's a lot 117 00:05:41,080 --> 00:05:43,960 Speaker 2: of hard work going on talking to businesses about how 118 00:05:44,000 --> 00:05:46,719 Speaker 2: it would work, so that we make sure we prioritize 119 00:05:46,720 --> 00:05:51,160 Speaker 2: really well. But it's also important to emphasize that that's 120 00:05:51,200 --> 00:05:54,080 Speaker 2: not the plan. We're making the plan so we're ready 121 00:05:54,440 --> 00:05:57,320 Speaker 2: and frankly, we're being prepared so we don't have to 122 00:05:57,440 --> 00:06:00,800 Speaker 2: use it rather than heading off into as to management 123 00:06:00,839 --> 00:06:03,240 Speaker 2: politics which cost this country so dearly and we're still 124 00:06:03,240 --> 00:06:03,720 Speaker 2: paying for it. 125 00:06:04,520 --> 00:06:08,200 Speaker 1: Yeah, all right, appreciate it. David Seymour, the Associated Education Ministry. Yeah, 126 00:06:08,200 --> 00:06:10,800 Speaker 1: the media yesterday and I can't remember who it was. 127 00:06:10,839 --> 00:06:11,880 Speaker 1: I think there might have been a couple of them 128 00:06:11,920 --> 00:06:13,880 Speaker 1: since we're down to eleven or twelve days of diesel, 129 00:06:14,279 --> 00:06:16,960 Speaker 1: which isn't true. I mean on land they never go. 130 00:06:17,120 --> 00:06:18,760 Speaker 1: You know, it's all the small print on land, it 131 00:06:18,839 --> 00:06:20,880 Speaker 1: might be, but of course the rest is coming, and 132 00:06:20,920 --> 00:06:22,800 Speaker 1: that's that's the key to all of this. And what 133 00:06:22,839 --> 00:06:24,760 Speaker 1: I don't want to see is a lot of alarmism 134 00:06:24,839 --> 00:06:29,120 Speaker 1: going on because we're predisposed. I think there's a certain 135 00:06:29,120 --> 00:06:32,920 Speaker 1: percentage of New Zealanders who are predisposed to panic. And 136 00:06:33,120 --> 00:06:34,440 Speaker 1: the last thing we need is that. 137 00:06:34,920 --> 00:06:37,800 Speaker 2: For more from the mi Casking Breakfast, listen live to 138 00:06:37,920 --> 00:06:38,479 Speaker 2: news talks. 139 00:06:38,520 --> 00:06:41,640 Speaker 1: It'd be from six am weekdays, or follow the podcast 140 00:06:41,720 --> 00:06:42,600 Speaker 1: on iHeartRadio.