1 00:00:05,400 --> 00:00:05,760 Speaker 1: Kiota. 2 00:00:05,880 --> 00:00:09,160 Speaker 2: I'm Chelsea Daniels and this is the Front Page, a 3 00:00:09,240 --> 00:00:10,920 Speaker 2: daily podcast. 4 00:00:10,440 --> 00:00:12,559 Speaker 3: Presented by The New Zealand Herald. 5 00:00:17,280 --> 00:00:21,320 Speaker 2: Last week we reported on the issues at Wellington City Council. 6 00:00:21,440 --> 00:00:26,640 Speaker 2: After councilors voted against selling airport shares, forcing a rethink 7 00:00:26,760 --> 00:00:30,800 Speaker 2: of the council's long term plan. The Coalition government labeled 8 00:00:30,800 --> 00:00:34,440 Speaker 2: the council a shambles and threatened to send in a 9 00:00:34,560 --> 00:00:39,120 Speaker 2: Crown Observer. Well they've now delivered on that threat, with 10 00:00:39,240 --> 00:00:43,519 Speaker 2: Local Government Minister Simeon Brown confirming that appointment. 11 00:00:43,120 --> 00:00:48,120 Speaker 3: Will be coming. The move puts more. 12 00:00:47,920 --> 00:00:51,560 Speaker 2: Pressure on Meyortry far Now and to counselors to sort 13 00:00:51,560 --> 00:00:55,720 Speaker 2: out their issues, but it has also sparked debate around 14 00:00:55,840 --> 00:00:58,880 Speaker 2: if the bar is too low for the government to intervene. 15 00:00:59,360 --> 00:01:02,680 Speaker 2: Today on the Front Page, Jim Palmer, a consultant who 16 00:01:02,840 --> 00:01:06,360 Speaker 2: chaired the Review into the Future for Local Government, is 17 00:01:06,360 --> 00:01:16,080 Speaker 2: with us to discuss the issues at our council tables. Jim, 18 00:01:16,280 --> 00:01:19,479 Speaker 2: what was your reaction to the news about a Crown 19 00:01:19,520 --> 00:01:22,560 Speaker 2: observer coming to Wellington City Council. 20 00:01:22,959 --> 00:01:26,560 Speaker 4: Yeah, it's been an issue that has obviously challenged the 21 00:01:26,600 --> 00:01:29,440 Speaker 4: Minister and those in Wellington for the last couple of 22 00:01:29,520 --> 00:01:32,319 Speaker 4: three weeks, and perhaps it wasn't a surprise that ultimately 23 00:01:32,560 --> 00:01:36,280 Speaker 4: an observer is to be appointed. While the circumstances of 24 00:01:36,280 --> 00:01:40,319 Speaker 4: Wellington perhaps will benefit from an observer from the review 25 00:01:40,319 --> 00:01:43,200 Speaker 4: that we undertook a couple of years ago, this is 26 00:01:43,360 --> 00:01:46,319 Speaker 4: probably symptomatic of some of the issues that we're seeing 27 00:01:46,319 --> 00:01:50,160 Speaker 4: in local government and they're more likely to recur over 28 00:01:50,240 --> 00:01:53,240 Speaker 4: time given the significant challenges the sector's facing. 29 00:01:53,600 --> 00:01:56,600 Speaker 3: What kind of challenges did you predict in that review? 30 00:01:56,880 --> 00:01:59,920 Speaker 4: Well, over the next thirty years, they're going to be 31 00:02:00,160 --> 00:02:04,920 Speaker 4: not only significant funding pressures, there's infrastructure challenges. We've got 32 00:02:04,960 --> 00:02:09,400 Speaker 4: economic and geopolitical impacts that we're uncertain how to play out. 33 00:02:09,520 --> 00:02:13,959 Speaker 4: Extreme weather events are coming, We've got persistent inequity, low 34 00:02:14,080 --> 00:02:18,000 Speaker 4: social cohesion, and things like climate change. All of those 35 00:02:18,040 --> 00:02:21,960 Speaker 4: things play out locally and they are very demanding and 36 00:02:22,120 --> 00:02:25,640 Speaker 4: put extreme pressures on local communities, on local government, and 37 00:02:25,880 --> 00:02:30,120 Speaker 4: currently in the review panels view the current systems just 38 00:02:30,160 --> 00:02:32,720 Speaker 4: not set up to be able to handle those challenges. 39 00:02:32,760 --> 00:02:35,200 Speaker 4: So the types of issues that we're seeing in Wellington 40 00:02:35,720 --> 00:02:37,760 Speaker 4: are likely to recur more frequently. 41 00:02:38,040 --> 00:02:40,920 Speaker 2: What sort of precedent is there for a Crown observer 42 00:02:41,000 --> 00:02:44,000 Speaker 2: to be appointed? It's not a common occurrence, is it. 43 00:02:44,240 --> 00:02:46,639 Speaker 2: But it's not really that rare either. 44 00:02:47,160 --> 00:02:50,800 Speaker 4: Well, the Minister had a number of options available to 45 00:02:51,400 --> 00:02:54,920 Speaker 4: him intervening should he choose to do so, and the 46 00:02:54,919 --> 00:02:58,280 Speaker 4: Crown observer is one to my knowledge, there's been one 47 00:02:58,320 --> 00:03:02,760 Speaker 4: previously in Westland that there have been other Crown managers appointed, 48 00:03:02,800 --> 00:03:06,400 Speaker 4: recently in Laodore for flooding, previously in christ Church City 49 00:03:06,440 --> 00:03:10,600 Speaker 4: over building control, and more publicized have been the commissioner 50 00:03:10,639 --> 00:03:15,000 Speaker 4: appointments at Todong, e Ken and Kuypra. So there has 51 00:03:15,080 --> 00:03:20,280 Speaker 4: been precedent for intervention at times, and obviously the Minister, 52 00:03:20,520 --> 00:03:23,600 Speaker 4: based on the advice he's received, believed that a threshold 53 00:03:23,639 --> 00:03:26,200 Speaker 4: had been met for that type of intervention. An observer 54 00:03:26,360 --> 00:03:30,040 Speaker 4: is probably the lightest touch intervention that probably could have 55 00:03:30,080 --> 00:03:31,399 Speaker 4: been decided upon. 56 00:03:34,240 --> 00:03:36,640 Speaker 5: It is my view that we accept this and work 57 00:03:36,680 --> 00:03:41,120 Speaker 5: constructively with whoever is appointed. The Minister has fairly pointed 58 00:03:41,120 --> 00:03:44,480 Speaker 5: out instances where councilors have walked down meetings, refused to 59 00:03:44,520 --> 00:03:48,240 Speaker 5: go and have also publicly criticized each other and council staff. 60 00:03:48,400 --> 00:03:51,040 Speaker 5: The council will have to pay for this unexpected cost. 61 00:03:54,640 --> 00:03:58,840 Speaker 2: One criticism that's emerged from some academics and commentators is 62 00:03:58,880 --> 00:04:01,040 Speaker 2: that the bar for an observer might be a bit 63 00:04:01,080 --> 00:04:03,000 Speaker 2: too low, particularly at the moment when a lot of 64 00:04:03,040 --> 00:04:05,080 Speaker 2: councils have financial issues. 65 00:04:05,400 --> 00:04:06,960 Speaker 3: What do you make of that viewpoint. 66 00:04:07,200 --> 00:04:10,400 Speaker 4: I'm not quite sure the advice the Minister has received 67 00:04:10,440 --> 00:04:13,240 Speaker 4: and that'll be released in due course, no doubt, but 68 00:04:13,440 --> 00:04:17,599 Speaker 4: which will probably have traversed that very question. You've certainly 69 00:04:17,640 --> 00:04:20,520 Speaker 4: got to let democracy take its course, and that's not 70 00:04:20,600 --> 00:04:24,120 Speaker 4: always smooth, and there is the three year annual performance 71 00:04:24,200 --> 00:04:27,760 Speaker 4: review that the councilors and mayors go through which the 72 00:04:27,800 --> 00:04:31,560 Speaker 4: community passes a verdict on how well they've performed. But 73 00:04:31,600 --> 00:04:35,000 Speaker 4: in the meantime, you know, sometimes some councils do need help. 74 00:04:35,120 --> 00:04:37,840 Speaker 4: And in the case of Wellington, yeah, they've got some 75 00:04:37,920 --> 00:04:41,200 Speaker 4: significant financial challenges that are trying to work their way through, 76 00:04:41,600 --> 00:04:45,240 Speaker 4: and they've got a council that has probably struggled to 77 00:04:45,360 --> 00:04:48,600 Speaker 4: consistently deliver the leadership. The fact that they're just down 78 00:04:48,600 --> 00:04:51,400 Speaker 4: the road from Parliament and quite public and visible, and 79 00:04:51,520 --> 00:04:54,080 Speaker 4: they've had a couple of other issues that recur in 80 00:04:54,120 --> 00:04:57,280 Speaker 4: the media have added to that pressure. So it's perhaps 81 00:04:57,360 --> 00:05:01,320 Speaker 4: not unsurprising that the Minister has decided, but it's whether 82 00:05:01,400 --> 00:05:03,599 Speaker 4: that creates a bar, I'm not so sure. I think 83 00:05:03,680 --> 00:05:07,640 Speaker 4: every situation will need close, separate consideration, and I don't 84 00:05:07,680 --> 00:05:12,400 Speaker 4: think there's necessarily a bar that can be easily articulated 85 00:05:12,480 --> 00:05:15,000 Speaker 4: to say this is the point where an observer or 86 00:05:15,160 --> 00:05:18,320 Speaker 4: greater intervention is required and we are not. So it's 87 00:05:18,360 --> 00:05:22,719 Speaker 4: a judgment call, and ultimately the minister has the responsibility 88 00:05:22,720 --> 00:05:23,120 Speaker 4: to make that. 89 00:05:23,480 --> 00:05:25,800 Speaker 2: So you reckon that this could happen a bit more 90 00:05:25,839 --> 00:05:28,440 Speaker 2: often than in the past, I suppose. Do you think 91 00:05:28,520 --> 00:05:32,240 Speaker 2: other councils are worried taking in Viicago, for example, where 92 00:05:32,320 --> 00:05:35,640 Speaker 2: Mayor Nobby Clark has twice been censured by his own 93 00:05:35,680 --> 00:05:38,680 Speaker 2: counsel over comments is made in public. Does that meet 94 00:05:38,800 --> 00:05:41,880 Speaker 2: the threshold of concern or does Wellington have the kind 95 00:05:41,920 --> 00:05:44,279 Speaker 2: of misfortune of, like you said, being in capital city, 96 00:05:44,560 --> 00:05:46,680 Speaker 2: being a little bit closer to central government. 97 00:05:47,040 --> 00:05:50,479 Speaker 4: I'm not wanting to comment on the particulars of Invercago, 98 00:05:50,800 --> 00:05:54,839 Speaker 4: and probably no, there are mechanisms to address that, and clearly, 99 00:05:55,240 --> 00:05:59,320 Speaker 4: if there had been sufficient concern about that, then there 100 00:05:59,360 --> 00:06:02,480 Speaker 4: may have been next already taken. So clearly in that 101 00:06:02,600 --> 00:06:05,359 Speaker 4: case there has been no intervention, and they're from a 102 00:06:05,520 --> 00:06:09,360 Speaker 4: national perspective obviously, wasn't considered to meet a threshold if 103 00:06:09,360 --> 00:06:12,760 Speaker 4: there is such a threshold, So yeah, each case is 104 00:06:12,800 --> 00:06:16,039 Speaker 4: going to require its own consideration, and a large part 105 00:06:16,080 --> 00:06:20,200 Speaker 4: of it is how the actual elected members tackle the challenges. 106 00:06:20,640 --> 00:06:23,400 Speaker 4: There are challenges of plenty coming for local government and 107 00:06:23,440 --> 00:06:27,680 Speaker 4: we've seen that with large rate increases signaled in ltps 108 00:06:27,760 --> 00:06:30,360 Speaker 4: and they will be there for years to come, along 109 00:06:30,400 --> 00:06:35,240 Speaker 4: with debt ceilings which are making investment and infrastructure challenging 110 00:06:35,320 --> 00:06:39,600 Speaker 4: and in some cases unaffordable or communities, and that's where 111 00:06:39,600 --> 00:06:42,880 Speaker 4: the funding model needs a total reset. So those type 112 00:06:42,880 --> 00:06:47,400 Speaker 4: of issues are recurring and until there is some systemic 113 00:06:47,600 --> 00:06:51,000 Speaker 4: change then it sounds a little gloomy to say, but 114 00:06:51,360 --> 00:06:54,040 Speaker 4: I would suggest that these type of issues are going 115 00:06:54,080 --> 00:06:56,599 Speaker 4: to be on the front pages of papers more and 116 00:06:56,640 --> 00:06:57,359 Speaker 4: more frequently. 117 00:06:57,800 --> 00:07:00,720 Speaker 2: Do you think the public takes into account how important 118 00:07:00,720 --> 00:07:01,880 Speaker 2: local councils are. 119 00:07:02,480 --> 00:07:05,960 Speaker 4: I think generally people love living in the communities that 120 00:07:06,040 --> 00:07:10,760 Speaker 4: they reside and really enjoy the amenity and the services 121 00:07:10,800 --> 00:07:12,920 Speaker 4: that they have on hand, but many take those for 122 00:07:13,000 --> 00:07:17,480 Speaker 4: granted absolutely. You know, local government touches individuals every day 123 00:07:17,520 --> 00:07:19,720 Speaker 4: in multiple ways. From the minute you get up and 124 00:07:20,120 --> 00:07:23,200 Speaker 4: blush the loo and brush your teeth through to drive 125 00:07:23,280 --> 00:07:26,560 Speaker 4: and being in parks and pools and libraries, and the 126 00:07:26,600 --> 00:07:30,560 Speaker 4: fabulous facilities and activities that are supported that support a 127 00:07:30,600 --> 00:07:34,800 Speaker 4: community to make communities great. All of those things generally 128 00:07:34,960 --> 00:07:37,760 Speaker 4: are led or supported by local government and so they 129 00:07:37,760 --> 00:07:40,280 Speaker 4: have a far greater impact on people's day to day 130 00:07:40,320 --> 00:07:42,960 Speaker 4: lives than perhaps many appreciate. 131 00:07:53,480 --> 00:07:59,080 Speaker 2: The local election numbers compared to national election turnout numbers 132 00:07:59,200 --> 00:08:02,600 Speaker 2: are significant different as well, so maybe people should be 133 00:08:02,880 --> 00:08:05,480 Speaker 2: reflecting on the importance of their local councils a little 134 00:08:05,480 --> 00:08:08,280 Speaker 2: bit more. And during the election campaign a National Party 135 00:08:08,280 --> 00:08:12,160 Speaker 2: spokesperson actually told stuff local government has an important role 136 00:08:12,200 --> 00:08:15,400 Speaker 2: to play, but too often councils are an after thought 137 00:08:15,600 --> 00:08:19,080 Speaker 2: for central government. Would you agree with that statement? Should 138 00:08:19,120 --> 00:08:21,520 Speaker 2: central government work more with local councils. 139 00:08:22,120 --> 00:08:26,840 Speaker 4: Our review undoubtedly recommended that there needs to be far 140 00:08:26,960 --> 00:08:31,080 Speaker 4: stronger partnership, genuine partnership, and it's not the command and 141 00:08:31,160 --> 00:08:35,080 Speaker 4: control style that successive governments. And I'm not just this government, 142 00:08:35,080 --> 00:08:38,680 Speaker 4: but many governments take a paternalistic view of local government 143 00:08:38,800 --> 00:08:43,360 Speaker 4: and there is great opportunity for central and local government 144 00:08:43,440 --> 00:08:47,200 Speaker 4: to be working together. I talked with one mayor in 145 00:08:47,240 --> 00:08:50,600 Speaker 4: a region and they're talking about youth unemployment, and they 146 00:08:50,640 --> 00:08:54,120 Speaker 4: said that there were ninety different agencies being funded to 147 00:08:54,160 --> 00:08:57,920 Speaker 4: address youth unemployment and they range from central government agencies, 148 00:08:58,240 --> 00:09:02,920 Speaker 4: local government NGO and other organizations, all trying to do 149 00:09:02,960 --> 00:09:06,360 Speaker 4: the right thing, but a lack of focus. If they'd 150 00:09:06,400 --> 00:09:08,640 Speaker 4: come together and said okay, here are the three or 151 00:09:08,640 --> 00:09:11,520 Speaker 4: four agencies that could be delivering this and delivering it 152 00:09:11,559 --> 00:09:14,360 Speaker 4: far more effectively, we could get far greater value for 153 00:09:14,440 --> 00:09:17,600 Speaker 4: money out of that. Also, the way in which government 154 00:09:17,679 --> 00:09:22,640 Speaker 4: and local government are prepared to partner with community, community organizations, 155 00:09:22,760 --> 00:09:26,320 Speaker 4: community groups. This huge amount of volunteering and goodwill in 156 00:09:26,360 --> 00:09:29,400 Speaker 4: a community, if it's engendered in the right way, there 157 00:09:29,480 --> 00:09:33,600 Speaker 4: is great grassroots opportunities to deliver far better value as well. 158 00:09:33,640 --> 00:09:36,720 Speaker 4: So the opportunity is immense, but it does require a 159 00:09:36,760 --> 00:09:41,480 Speaker 4: fundamental reset of the relationship between central government and local government. 160 00:09:41,520 --> 00:09:42,840 Speaker 4: Particularly in the first. 161 00:09:42,679 --> 00:09:47,160 Speaker 2: Instance, the government dared revoke three waters, which many local 162 00:09:47,160 --> 00:09:49,959 Speaker 2: councils weren't a fan of. But in other areas the 163 00:09:50,000 --> 00:09:53,000 Speaker 2: government has actually been a bit more firm with councils. 164 00:09:53,200 --> 00:09:56,000 Speaker 2: Councils that want to keep their multi wards now have 165 00:09:56,120 --> 00:09:59,439 Speaker 2: to hold a referendum on that, and Prime Minister Chris 166 00:09:59,520 --> 00:10:03,200 Speaker 2: va Luxe has had strong words for counsels at a 167 00:10:03,320 --> 00:10:06,800 Speaker 2: conference in August, telling them to rain in the spending. 168 00:10:08,040 --> 00:10:11,920 Speaker 6: Rate Payers expect local government to do the basics, pick 169 00:10:12,000 --> 00:10:14,400 Speaker 6: up the rubbish, fix the pipes, fill in the potholes, 170 00:10:14,480 --> 00:10:18,640 Speaker 6: and more generally, maintain the local assets quickly, carefully and 171 00:10:18,679 --> 00:10:21,679 Speaker 6: cost effectively. What they don't expect to pay for is 172 00:10:21,720 --> 00:10:24,679 Speaker 6: a laundry list of distractions and experiments that are plaguing 173 00:10:24,760 --> 00:10:26,720 Speaker 6: council balance sheets across the country. 174 00:10:28,559 --> 00:10:31,360 Speaker 2: Is this the right message and we're talking about that 175 00:10:31,440 --> 00:10:35,440 Speaker 2: relationship that government should be fostering and sending if it 176 00:10:35,520 --> 00:10:37,960 Speaker 2: does want to work constructively with councils. 177 00:10:38,440 --> 00:10:42,880 Speaker 4: Yeah, building a strong, genuine partnership requires trust and confidence 178 00:10:42,920 --> 00:10:46,280 Speaker 4: in each other, and that takes some time. It takes 179 00:10:46,360 --> 00:10:48,520 Speaker 4: people to be in the room and get together and 180 00:10:48,600 --> 00:10:52,720 Speaker 4: understand the different perspectives. Certainly understand the government has three 181 00:10:52,800 --> 00:10:56,280 Speaker 4: years in a series of priorities that it wishes to 182 00:10:56,360 --> 00:10:59,360 Speaker 4: pursue and doesn't want to be distracted by things which 183 00:10:59,400 --> 00:11:02,200 Speaker 4: don't necessary very early aligned with its priorities. I think 184 00:11:02,240 --> 00:11:06,000 Speaker 4: that's been understood by local government. But to go to 185 00:11:06,080 --> 00:11:09,120 Speaker 4: the fundamental reset, then there does need to be a 186 00:11:09,240 --> 00:11:11,640 Speaker 4: change in the way and which central government and local 187 00:11:11,679 --> 00:11:15,760 Speaker 4: government relate to each other and work together. We identified 188 00:11:16,040 --> 00:11:19,440 Speaker 4: significant opportunities to be able to reimagine the way and 189 00:11:19,440 --> 00:11:23,520 Speaker 4: which central government and local government work together and with respect. 190 00:11:23,600 --> 00:11:27,160 Speaker 4: I don't see those actions being taken to the extent 191 00:11:27,360 --> 00:11:31,080 Speaker 4: needed to create the change that will benefit ultimately the 192 00:11:31,120 --> 00:11:35,360 Speaker 4: communities that both government and local government are there to serve. 193 00:11:35,800 --> 00:11:38,400 Speaker 3: Yeah, nobody really likes to be told what to do. 194 00:11:38,480 --> 00:11:41,640 Speaker 2: It's like having a big brother and them saying no, 195 00:11:42,040 --> 00:11:44,560 Speaker 2: you're doing it wrong, do it this way, and not 196 00:11:44,600 --> 00:11:47,080 Speaker 2: really having a constructive conversation about it. 197 00:11:47,120 --> 00:11:47,320 Speaker 3: Hey. 198 00:11:47,679 --> 00:11:50,960 Speaker 4: Absolutely, and it's not just this government. Successive governments have 199 00:11:51,559 --> 00:11:55,199 Speaker 4: taken that approach, which is difficult to respond to, and 200 00:11:55,640 --> 00:11:59,480 Speaker 4: local government traditionally has been an easy course to whip 201 00:11:59,679 --> 00:12:03,160 Speaker 4: in has been and sometimes local government, to be honest, 202 00:12:03,200 --> 00:12:07,320 Speaker 4: doesn't help itself and provides plenty of opportunities and dead 203 00:12:07,480 --> 00:12:10,760 Speaker 4: rats to be held up and examined. And what happens 204 00:12:10,800 --> 00:12:13,600 Speaker 4: with one many get card with the same brush, and 205 00:12:13,720 --> 00:12:17,680 Speaker 4: so you know, the unfortunate reflection on the whole sector 206 00:12:17,679 --> 00:12:19,160 Speaker 4: that perhaps isn't always warrant. 207 00:12:23,559 --> 00:12:26,720 Speaker 1: Every new government that comes into office talks about building 208 00:12:26,800 --> 00:12:30,440 Speaker 1: strong relations with local government, but successive National and Labor 209 00:12:30,480 --> 00:12:33,480 Speaker 1: governments have a buttered call from local government for new 210 00:12:33,480 --> 00:12:36,880 Speaker 1: funding tools like ending GST on rates, pain rates on 211 00:12:36,960 --> 00:12:41,079 Speaker 1: crown property and if anything, successive governments have added costs 212 00:12:41,080 --> 00:12:44,160 Speaker 1: to local government. The end of the day, central government 213 00:12:44,280 --> 00:12:47,760 Speaker 1: has not been willing to hand over new funding tools 214 00:12:47,800 --> 00:12:51,120 Speaker 1: that would take the pressure off Ugland Council and all 215 00:12:51,200 --> 00:12:52,520 Speaker 1: the councils around the country. 216 00:12:56,880 --> 00:13:00,959 Speaker 2: You chaired the Future for Local Government review which was 217 00:13:00,960 --> 00:13:05,240 Speaker 2: announced by the Labor government. In terms of those seventeen 218 00:13:05,440 --> 00:13:10,280 Speaker 2: recommendations that the review made, how do you think they're 219 00:13:10,280 --> 00:13:12,160 Speaker 2: going Has any been acted upon? 220 00:13:12,559 --> 00:13:16,800 Speaker 4: Certainly, Local Government New Zealand, the body who represents the 221 00:13:16,840 --> 00:13:21,240 Speaker 4: interests of local councils, certainly did a good job in 222 00:13:21,320 --> 00:13:25,040 Speaker 4: analyzing the report and thinking about recommendations that wanted to 223 00:13:25,080 --> 00:13:28,359 Speaker 4: support the government. To be honest, there's only a handful 224 00:13:28,559 --> 00:13:32,920 Speaker 4: of recommendations that are in one way or another being considered. 225 00:13:33,400 --> 00:13:38,040 Speaker 4: The issue of funding generally no funding, although the government 226 00:13:38,320 --> 00:13:43,640 Speaker 4: might consider some bespoke funding arrangements such as congestion charging 227 00:13:43,840 --> 00:13:48,079 Speaker 4: or bid tax or the like, minor concessions. We did 228 00:13:48,160 --> 00:13:52,040 Speaker 4: talk about the opportunity for city and regional deals, which 229 00:13:52,120 --> 00:13:55,440 Speaker 4: has been picked up by the government, although to be honest, 230 00:13:55,559 --> 00:13:58,640 Speaker 4: rather slowly. It's going to take some years for those 231 00:13:58,760 --> 00:14:02,800 Speaker 4: to emerge in be bedded, and there is a consideration 232 00:14:02,880 --> 00:14:06,920 Speaker 4: of electoral change changing the electoral cycle. There are some 233 00:14:07,200 --> 00:14:10,640 Speaker 4: aspects of the review that are being picked up and 234 00:14:10,679 --> 00:14:14,439 Speaker 4: being indirectly given attention to, given that the Minister didn't 235 00:14:14,480 --> 00:14:19,000 Speaker 4: accept the report's recommendation, so there is change. Our panel 236 00:14:19,120 --> 00:14:21,600 Speaker 4: was off the view though that to make the level 237 00:14:21,600 --> 00:14:25,760 Speaker 4: of change that was required, it actually required a systematic 238 00:14:26,000 --> 00:14:29,240 Speaker 4: implementation of all of the recommendations. You just couldn't cherry 239 00:14:29,280 --> 00:14:30,000 Speaker 4: pick one or two. 240 00:14:30,360 --> 00:14:33,600 Speaker 2: Are there any of those recommendations that you just want 241 00:14:33,600 --> 00:14:36,280 Speaker 2: to see happen if you could click your fingers and 242 00:14:36,560 --> 00:14:37,760 Speaker 2: have it happen tomorrow. 243 00:14:38,240 --> 00:14:40,080 Speaker 3: What do you think needs to happen. 244 00:14:40,080 --> 00:14:42,520 Speaker 4: Well, there's a as I say, there were seventeen that 245 00:14:42,560 --> 00:14:46,240 Speaker 4: we thought were pretty important. In those nothing happens until 246 00:14:46,280 --> 00:14:49,520 Speaker 4: there is a fundamental reset of the relationship between central 247 00:14:49,520 --> 00:14:53,040 Speaker 4: and local government. Funding is a particular concern and underpins 248 00:14:53,080 --> 00:14:56,720 Speaker 4: many of the challenges the sector face. Increasing the governance 249 00:14:57,000 --> 00:15:00,640 Speaker 4: capacity and capability of local government as in a important thing. 250 00:15:00,760 --> 00:15:04,560 Speaker 4: Investing in training and development for elected members and ensuring 251 00:15:04,600 --> 00:15:07,840 Speaker 4: that they've got the right people to support it. Local government, 252 00:15:07,880 --> 00:15:10,400 Speaker 4: you know, there needs to be a reconsideration whether the 253 00:15:10,440 --> 00:15:14,160 Speaker 4: way in which local government is currently structured is sustainable 254 00:15:14,200 --> 00:15:16,320 Speaker 4: and is going to be able to deliver to the future. 255 00:15:16,400 --> 00:15:18,840 Speaker 4: So they are some other things, but there are many others, 256 00:15:18,920 --> 00:15:23,040 Speaker 4: including the importance of a strong t tendity relationship with 257 00:15:23,160 --> 00:15:26,600 Speaker 4: ee HAPU. That was a key issue that we identified 258 00:15:26,640 --> 00:15:30,120 Speaker 4: as well. So there are many issues that our panel 259 00:15:30,200 --> 00:15:34,320 Speaker 4: traverse that we believe there needed to be significant change 260 00:15:34,320 --> 00:15:37,680 Speaker 4: initiated otherwise. You know, in my view, in five to 261 00:15:37,720 --> 00:15:40,440 Speaker 4: ten years time, people will look back at our report 262 00:15:40,560 --> 00:15:44,600 Speaker 4: as these issues continue to present significant challenges and there 263 00:15:44,640 --> 00:15:47,120 Speaker 4: might be a lost opportunity that sits amongst that. 264 00:15:47,600 --> 00:15:55,560 Speaker 3: Thanks for joining us, Jim. That said, for this episode 265 00:15:55,640 --> 00:15:56,800 Speaker 3: of The Front Page. 266 00:15:57,080 --> 00:16:00,680 Speaker 2: You can read more about today's stories and extensive coverage 267 00:16:00,720 --> 00:16:01,920 Speaker 2: at enzed Herald. 268 00:16:01,760 --> 00:16:02,840 Speaker 3: Dot co dot z. 269 00:16:03,640 --> 00:16:06,560 Speaker 2: The Front Page is produced by Ethan Siles with sound 270 00:16:06,600 --> 00:16:11,240 Speaker 2: engineer Patty Fox. I'm Chelsea Daniels. Subscribe to the Front 271 00:16:11,240 --> 00:16:14,600 Speaker 2: Page on iHeartRadio or wherever you get your podcasts, and 272 00:16:14,680 --> 00:16:15,880 Speaker 2: tune in tomorrow for 273 00:16:15,960 --> 00:16:17,880 Speaker 3: Another look behind the headlines.