1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:02,960 Speaker 1: It's all about defense tonight. Twelve billion dollars is going 2 00:00:03,000 --> 00:00:05,880 Speaker 1: to be invested. It's a record number from the government 3 00:00:05,920 --> 00:00:09,079 Speaker 1: invested into defense over the next four years, with a 4 00:00:09,119 --> 00:00:11,720 Speaker 1: plan to get spending to two percent of GDP over 5 00:00:11,760 --> 00:00:15,040 Speaker 1: the next eight years. It comes after China launched an 6 00:00:15,040 --> 00:00:18,160 Speaker 1: inta ballistic missile into the Pacific last year. We had 7 00:00:18,160 --> 00:00:21,639 Speaker 1: the three highly capable Chinese warships sailing off the coast 8 00:00:21,640 --> 00:00:23,800 Speaker 1: of Sydney a couple of months ago. The Defense Minister, 9 00:00:23,880 --> 00:00:28,040 Speaker 1: Judith Collins has announced issues with me. Now Minister, good evening. Well, hello, Ryan, 10 00:00:28,560 --> 00:00:30,520 Speaker 1: So break it down for us. What is the twelve 11 00:00:30,560 --> 00:00:33,360 Speaker 1: billion going largely going to be spent on or how 12 00:00:33,360 --> 00:00:35,800 Speaker 1: will it be split between CAPEX and op X and 13 00:00:36,280 --> 00:00:37,480 Speaker 1: over these four years. 14 00:00:37,880 --> 00:00:41,479 Speaker 2: Yeah, but the nine billion is basically extra money on 15 00:00:41,560 --> 00:00:45,560 Speaker 2: top of what defense normally gets now, and the three 16 00:00:45,760 --> 00:00:49,640 Speaker 2: billion is it's basically it's a form of depreciation that 17 00:00:50,360 --> 00:00:52,800 Speaker 2: defense has to be funded for and that it pays back, 18 00:00:52,880 --> 00:00:55,560 Speaker 2: and it's you know, it's I don't want to get 19 00:00:55,600 --> 00:00:58,600 Speaker 2: into the boring details of accounting, but basically it's a 20 00:00:58,880 --> 00:01:01,560 Speaker 2: heck of a load of money that defenses getting. So 21 00:01:01,600 --> 00:01:05,040 Speaker 2: we're going to have in the first four years, we've 22 00:01:05,040 --> 00:01:09,160 Speaker 2: got some really big stuff happening around replacing some of 23 00:01:09,200 --> 00:01:12,840 Speaker 2: our platforms and being able to actually get ourselves out there, 24 00:01:12,840 --> 00:01:17,520 Speaker 2: particularly with uncrude equipment. So a lot of people don't 25 00:01:17,560 --> 00:01:21,080 Speaker 2: realize we have a good and growing industry in this 26 00:01:21,120 --> 00:01:26,200 Speaker 2: country building equipment for uncrude equipment for other countries to use. 27 00:01:26,840 --> 00:01:28,960 Speaker 2: And what we need to make sure is that we're 28 00:01:28,959 --> 00:01:31,440 Speaker 2: getting a piece of that action as well and building 29 00:01:31,440 --> 00:01:35,600 Speaker 2: our capabilities on that. But the first things that we're 30 00:01:35,640 --> 00:01:40,480 Speaker 2: doing is around the enhanced maritime strike capability. I've just 31 00:01:40,520 --> 00:01:45,160 Speaker 2: talked about the uncrued surface surveillance as well, sorting out 32 00:01:45,480 --> 00:01:51,200 Speaker 2: and getting replacements for our maritime helicopters, upgrading our systems 33 00:01:51,360 --> 00:01:55,520 Speaker 2: to deal with drones coming in against us, but also 34 00:01:56,360 --> 00:01:59,560 Speaker 2: making sure that we have our mw ZEUM Defense Workforce 35 00:01:59,560 --> 00:02:03,320 Speaker 2: strategy right, and really looking after the bases more and 36 00:02:03,360 --> 00:02:05,680 Speaker 2: the people that live on them. So these are some 37 00:02:05,760 --> 00:02:06,720 Speaker 2: of the things that we're doing. 38 00:02:06,800 --> 00:02:11,320 Speaker 1: Okay, So helicopters will get drones, will we get submersible drones, 39 00:02:11,320 --> 00:02:11,760 Speaker 1: I don't know what. 40 00:02:12,880 --> 00:02:16,720 Speaker 2: We already have one. We already have that, so basically 41 00:02:16,880 --> 00:02:22,520 Speaker 2: uncrewed submarines. So we've bought that and we'll probably get 42 00:02:22,560 --> 00:02:24,440 Speaker 2: some more of those. And when's the sort of thing 43 00:02:24,480 --> 00:02:24,880 Speaker 2: we can do. 44 00:02:25,120 --> 00:02:27,560 Speaker 1: And when you say when drones are coming here, we 45 00:02:27,600 --> 00:02:29,560 Speaker 1: need stuff to stop them, it's stuff to shoot them 46 00:02:29,560 --> 00:02:30,359 Speaker 1: out of the sky. 47 00:02:31,600 --> 00:02:34,160 Speaker 2: Something like that. So it's not just coming here, it's 48 00:02:34,360 --> 00:02:36,800 Speaker 2: our people on ships who are dealing with drones coming 49 00:02:36,840 --> 00:02:38,720 Speaker 2: at them too, So we've got to be able to 50 00:02:38,720 --> 00:02:42,280 Speaker 2: have that capability. Now we do actually have that tech 51 00:02:42,320 --> 00:02:46,880 Speaker 2: in the New Zealand. We have some fabulous industry players 52 00:02:46,919 --> 00:02:50,200 Speaker 2: here who at the moment are selling to offshore defense 53 00:02:51,560 --> 00:02:55,280 Speaker 2: forces and we need to be able to help them 54 00:02:55,320 --> 00:02:58,560 Speaker 2: to build their industry but also buy some New Zealand 55 00:02:58,639 --> 00:02:59,920 Speaker 2: for a change. 56 00:03:00,160 --> 00:03:04,480 Speaker 1: Buying New Zealand made okay, I mean, and it's great stuff. Yeah, 57 00:03:04,480 --> 00:03:07,000 Speaker 1: and this is all inside the next four years. What 58 00:03:07,160 --> 00:03:08,040 Speaker 1: about recruitment. 59 00:03:09,240 --> 00:03:12,240 Speaker 2: Oh and recruitment too, So obviously we've got the budget 60 00:03:12,280 --> 00:03:16,480 Speaker 2: still coming up, so issues around that are very important. So, 61 00:03:16,840 --> 00:03:19,680 Speaker 2: as you know, we had a real problem with people leaving, 62 00:03:19,919 --> 00:03:23,840 Speaker 2: particularly during the COVID years. That has now been stemmed. 63 00:03:24,440 --> 00:03:27,919 Speaker 2: So now this is defenses out there. They have people 64 00:03:28,000 --> 00:03:30,880 Speaker 2: lining up to join them and that's what we want. 65 00:03:30,960 --> 00:03:36,040 Speaker 2: So they take people who are physically very fit, mentally sound, 66 00:03:36,560 --> 00:03:40,880 Speaker 2: and who can be taught and will take orders. So 67 00:03:41,000 --> 00:03:43,000 Speaker 2: these are the sorts of people there after, and that's 68 00:03:43,000 --> 00:03:45,080 Speaker 2: what they'll be out recruiting as well. 69 00:03:45,760 --> 00:03:47,240 Speaker 1: Where's the money going to come from? 70 00:03:48,120 --> 00:03:51,520 Speaker 2: Well, it comes from the New Zealand taxpayer actually, and 71 00:03:51,520 --> 00:03:53,120 Speaker 2: that's why we need to make sure we do it 72 00:03:53,160 --> 00:03:55,960 Speaker 2: really carefully. So it is a lot of money. But 73 00:03:56,040 --> 00:03:59,280 Speaker 2: I also know this that there is no economic security 74 00:03:59,480 --> 00:04:02,920 Speaker 2: without new security and New Zealand paying at the moment 75 00:04:02,920 --> 00:04:05,800 Speaker 2: as we do about one point one percent of our 76 00:04:05,840 --> 00:04:09,880 Speaker 2: GDP on defense. We are so far behind like minded countries. 77 00:04:10,160 --> 00:04:12,080 Speaker 2: We need to get to two percent. We're doing that 78 00:04:12,400 --> 00:04:15,560 Speaker 2: under this plan within eight years, that's the plan, and 79 00:04:15,600 --> 00:04:18,200 Speaker 2: we will be back at a percentage of GDP for 80 00:04:18,279 --> 00:04:22,320 Speaker 2: spending for defense where we're in nineteen ninety two. We've 81 00:04:22,320 --> 00:04:26,080 Speaker 2: had thirty five years of just ripping the guts our 82 00:04:26,200 --> 00:04:27,400 Speaker 2: defense and it's got to stop. 83 00:04:28,240 --> 00:04:30,200 Speaker 1: That is Money's going to have to come from somewhere, though, 84 00:04:30,200 --> 00:04:31,160 Speaker 1: isn't it? Is this a question? 85 00:04:31,200 --> 00:04:31,520 Speaker 2: It does? 86 00:04:31,560 --> 00:04:33,640 Speaker 1: We've got Nick Willis on our six. We might need 87 00:04:33,680 --> 00:04:37,760 Speaker 1: that one for her. Somebody has somebody asked us, have 88 00:04:37,880 --> 00:04:41,080 Speaker 1: one of your counterparts asked you that we get to 89 00:04:41,160 --> 00:04:41,720 Speaker 1: two percent. 90 00:04:42,839 --> 00:04:44,680 Speaker 2: No, they don't need to ask us to do that. 91 00:04:44,800 --> 00:04:47,640 Speaker 2: It is. It is one of those levels of funding 92 00:04:47,839 --> 00:04:52,240 Speaker 2: that is understood is a minimum level that you need 93 00:04:52,279 --> 00:04:55,520 Speaker 2: to be to be able to do the basic things 94 00:04:55,560 --> 00:04:58,200 Speaker 2: of what a defense will should do. So, as you know, 95 00:04:58,440 --> 00:05:01,320 Speaker 2: we have a lot of disaster relief work that we 96 00:05:01,360 --> 00:05:04,080 Speaker 2: have to do in defense, but we also have things, 97 00:05:04,080 --> 00:05:07,160 Speaker 2: particularly in the Pacific and with a big maritime zone 98 00:05:07,279 --> 00:05:11,839 Speaker 2: around illegal and irregular fishing, particularly for our Pacific neighbors. 99 00:05:12,240 --> 00:05:17,000 Speaker 2: And also we have the transnational organized crime, particularly big 100 00:05:17,080 --> 00:05:19,440 Speaker 2: drug busts and things like that that our defense force 101 00:05:19,520 --> 00:05:23,000 Speaker 2: is involved in, working with police but also with other countries. 102 00:05:23,360 --> 00:05:25,200 Speaker 2: And then there's the other issue that we need to 103 00:05:25,240 --> 00:05:28,440 Speaker 2: have more lethality. We need to actually understand defense is 104 00:05:28,480 --> 00:05:31,320 Speaker 2: about defending and we do need to be able to 105 00:05:31,320 --> 00:05:34,120 Speaker 2: do that, and we all know about our wonderful special forces, 106 00:05:34,360 --> 00:05:37,640 Speaker 2: but actually we've got capability in other areas as well, 107 00:05:37,680 --> 00:05:39,359 Speaker 2: and they need to be backed up. We can't just 108 00:05:39,400 --> 00:05:41,640 Speaker 2: send people off and have nothing to pick them up 109 00:05:41,760 --> 00:05:44,200 Speaker 2: or do anything else. And I'd say this to people 110 00:05:44,240 --> 00:05:47,240 Speaker 2: and they say really foolish things like why do we 111 00:05:47,279 --> 00:05:49,520 Speaker 2: need to have ships and frigates. But when we're out 112 00:05:49,520 --> 00:05:53,800 Speaker 2: in the Tasman Sea and you've got people who are 113 00:05:53,839 --> 00:05:56,039 Speaker 2: on a kayak in the middle of the sea and 114 00:05:56,080 --> 00:05:58,080 Speaker 2: they need someone to go and save them, Well, who 115 00:05:58,080 --> 00:06:01,000 Speaker 2: do we ask we as defense we need somebody who 116 00:06:01,040 --> 00:06:02,720 Speaker 2: can have they cop to them out of there, getting 117 00:06:02,760 --> 00:06:04,560 Speaker 2: out of the water, or have a ship to put 118 00:06:04,560 --> 00:06:06,920 Speaker 2: them onto or something else. But what we can't do 119 00:06:07,000 --> 00:06:09,120 Speaker 2: is just leave them there and say, oh, well, that's 120 00:06:09,160 --> 00:06:11,520 Speaker 2: a bit of a shame. You know. It's defending us 121 00:06:11,560 --> 00:06:14,520 Speaker 2: from weather, from everything else and also from people who 122 00:06:14,600 --> 00:06:16,280 Speaker 2: want to take our resources. 123 00:06:17,160 --> 00:06:19,680 Speaker 1: When you say we need more lethality, are we not 124 00:06:19,760 --> 00:06:22,560 Speaker 1: lethal enough as it is? No, clearly not. 125 00:06:22,520 --> 00:06:25,280 Speaker 2: No, no, no no. So we we're not getting the 126 00:06:25,320 --> 00:06:27,680 Speaker 2: strike course back for the Air Force because simply we've 127 00:06:27,680 --> 00:06:31,240 Speaker 2: lost the entire capability thanks to Helen Clark and her 128 00:06:31,279 --> 00:06:34,360 Speaker 2: decision to get rid of it back in the when 129 00:06:34,360 --> 00:06:38,160 Speaker 2: she came to government. But what we do have is 130 00:06:38,200 --> 00:06:42,880 Speaker 2: we need some lethal components onto our a sidons. They 131 00:06:42,920 --> 00:06:46,400 Speaker 2: are submarine hunters and having hunted them, having got the 132 00:06:46,440 --> 00:06:49,640 Speaker 2: information off them, surveillance and everything else they do, they 133 00:06:49,720 --> 00:06:53,960 Speaker 2: do need to have some ability to fight back if 134 00:06:53,960 --> 00:06:56,680 Speaker 2: someone's going to come after them. So you know, this 135 00:06:56,800 --> 00:07:00,280 Speaker 2: is not tiddly winks. This is really serious things going 136 00:07:00,320 --> 00:07:02,440 Speaker 2: on in the world at the moment, and New Zealand 137 00:07:02,520 --> 00:07:05,320 Speaker 2: cannot stand back and say, oh, it's not really our problem. 138 00:07:05,440 --> 00:07:08,800 Speaker 2: It is absolutely our problem. And we have a specific 139 00:07:08,920 --> 00:07:12,200 Speaker 2: that we have an obligation to and we also have 140 00:07:12,280 --> 00:07:15,880 Speaker 2: an obligation to New Zealanders and to our one formal ally, 141 00:07:15,920 --> 00:07:16,840 Speaker 2: which is Australia. 142 00:07:17,480 --> 00:07:19,840 Speaker 1: Will the drones that we're getting be able to strike 143 00:07:19,960 --> 00:07:21,040 Speaker 1: or are they just surveillance. 144 00:07:22,200 --> 00:07:24,000 Speaker 2: Well we've said that we're not doing any of this 145 00:07:24,120 --> 00:07:30,080 Speaker 2: AI AI generated strike capability on drones, and I think 146 00:07:30,080 --> 00:07:33,320 Speaker 2: that is absolutely right. But however, the way that we 147 00:07:33,840 --> 00:07:37,360 Speaker 2: drones are obviously used in Ukraine at the moment, and 148 00:07:37,400 --> 00:07:39,280 Speaker 2: you might find that some of those may have some 149 00:07:39,400 --> 00:07:42,560 Speaker 2: tech from New Zealand, so they do need to be 150 00:07:42,560 --> 00:07:45,000 Speaker 2: able to strike. But the point is you need somebody 151 00:07:45,040 --> 00:07:47,800 Speaker 2: taking responsibility for anything like that. 152 00:07:47,040 --> 00:07:49,800 Speaker 1: So we're saying that someone would be on the other 153 00:07:49,960 --> 00:07:51,080 Speaker 1: end pulling the trigger. 154 00:07:51,840 --> 00:07:54,920 Speaker 2: You can't. We're not that sort of nation that would 155 00:07:55,480 --> 00:07:58,800 Speaker 2: just say or well, send that to a software to do. No, 156 00:07:58,920 --> 00:07:59,720 Speaker 2: that's not what we do. 157 00:08:00,000 --> 00:08:03,480 Speaker 1: No, Okay, interesting, Defense Minister doth coins really appreciate your time. 158 00:08:03,520 --> 00:08:06,040 Speaker 1: Thanks for coming on the show. For more from Hither 159 00:08:06,160 --> 00:08:09,160 Speaker 1: Duplessy Allen Drive, listen live to news talks. It'd be 160 00:08:09,320 --> 00:08:13,200 Speaker 1: from four pm weekdays, or follow the podcast on iHeartRadio.