1 00:00:05,440 --> 00:00:05,880 Speaker 1: Kyoda. 2 00:00:05,920 --> 00:00:09,080 Speaker 2: I'm Chelsea Daniels and this is the Front Page, a 3 00:00:09,160 --> 00:00:16,880 Speaker 2: daily podcast presented by The New Zealand Herald. Insurers have 4 00:00:17,120 --> 00:00:22,040 Speaker 2: begun their retreat as climate change byites. Back to back 5 00:00:22,079 --> 00:00:25,720 Speaker 2: disasters in recent years have pushed insured loss into the 6 00:00:25,960 --> 00:00:30,720 Speaker 2: billions and forced tough decisions about what can still be covered. 7 00:00:31,280 --> 00:00:34,879 Speaker 2: Homeowners in flood and coast exposed areas are starting to 8 00:00:34,920 --> 00:00:39,280 Speaker 2: see higher premiums, exclusions and even the risk of losing 9 00:00:39,360 --> 00:00:43,239 Speaker 2: cover altogether. AA Insurance has gone the extra mile and 10 00:00:43,320 --> 00:00:47,959 Speaker 2: stopped issuing new home insurance policies in several towns entirely, 11 00:00:48,600 --> 00:00:54,560 Speaker 2: so who will pay when the extreme weather keeps coming households, 12 00:00:54,720 --> 00:00:58,720 Speaker 2: insurers or the government. Today on the Front Page, journalist 13 00:00:58,840 --> 00:01:02,600 Speaker 2: and publisher of The Hakka, Bernard Hickey is with us 14 00:01:02,920 --> 00:01:07,160 Speaker 2: to explain how climate change is reshaping insurance and what 15 00:01:07,240 --> 00:01:14,000 Speaker 2: it means for where and how we live. So, Bernard, 16 00:01:14,040 --> 00:01:17,440 Speaker 2: I understand that there are some places in this country 17 00:01:17,560 --> 00:01:21,440 Speaker 2: where you just can't get home insurance from some providers. So, 18 00:01:21,480 --> 00:01:25,280 Speaker 2: for instance, AA Insurance has stopped issuing new home insurance 19 00:01:25,280 --> 00:01:28,920 Speaker 2: policies and places like Westport due to flood risk and 20 00:01:29,000 --> 00:01:33,199 Speaker 2: would end in North Canterbury due to seismic risk. What 21 00:01:33,319 --> 00:01:38,240 Speaker 2: happens when all insurers abandon these places altogether. 22 00:01:38,080 --> 00:01:40,880 Speaker 1: Yeah are then there's a massive problem for the people 23 00:01:40,880 --> 00:01:44,560 Speaker 1: in that town and the town itself, because essentially it 24 00:01:44,560 --> 00:01:49,440 Speaker 1: becomes uninsurable and unbankable. Now, the key thing to know here, 25 00:01:49,480 --> 00:01:52,400 Speaker 1: of course, is that for most New Zealanders, the value 26 00:01:52,400 --> 00:01:55,560 Speaker 1: of their home really is their financial futures. It's not 27 00:01:55,640 --> 00:01:58,520 Speaker 1: just a place to live. They rely on it to 28 00:01:59,320 --> 00:02:04,400 Speaker 1: potentially sell once they're empty nesters and downsize and then 29 00:02:04,640 --> 00:02:07,560 Speaker 1: use any spare equity to help them in their retirement, 30 00:02:07,680 --> 00:02:10,600 Speaker 1: or maybe they buy an extra retirement property or two, 31 00:02:10,760 --> 00:02:14,600 Speaker 1: often near where they live. So once the town is unensurable, 32 00:02:14,720 --> 00:02:18,600 Speaker 1: it's also unbankable. And when something is unbankable, that means 33 00:02:18,639 --> 00:02:22,560 Speaker 1: it's pretty much worthless because you don't have the same 34 00:02:22,880 --> 00:02:25,800 Speaker 1: competition to buy the house from people who are able 35 00:02:25,840 --> 00:02:28,960 Speaker 1: to borrow money. And a good way to think about 36 00:02:29,560 --> 00:02:33,000 Speaker 1: what your property's worth once it's unbankable is to imagine 37 00:02:33,080 --> 00:02:35,840 Speaker 1: if it was an apartment in one of those so 38 00:02:35,919 --> 00:02:39,640 Speaker 1: called shoe box apartments where the banks had all pulled 39 00:02:39,680 --> 00:02:43,519 Speaker 1: back from lending against them, and essentially they're worth nothing. 40 00:02:44,040 --> 00:02:50,840 Speaker 1: So this becomes a very existentially dangerous thing for the 41 00:02:50,960 --> 00:02:54,120 Speaker 1: personal finances of people living in those towns because their 42 00:02:54,280 --> 00:02:58,760 Speaker 1: houses aren't worth nearly as much. And secondly, it becomes 43 00:02:58,800 --> 00:03:01,360 Speaker 1: an issue for the town. No one will want to 44 00:03:01,440 --> 00:03:05,919 Speaker 1: move there to take up a job. Businesses will see 45 00:03:05,960 --> 00:03:10,000 Speaker 1: people leaving. And of course once you see the circulation 46 00:03:10,080 --> 00:03:12,920 Speaker 1: of cash in a town slow up because you're not 47 00:03:12,960 --> 00:03:17,120 Speaker 1: seeing properties being sold, then it really just shrills and 48 00:03:17,160 --> 00:03:21,720 Speaker 1: that's what's making people very nervous. When town's like Westport 49 00:03:21,840 --> 00:03:26,200 Speaker 1: and Blaenham and others, they haven't lost all of the insurance. 50 00:03:26,360 --> 00:03:28,720 Speaker 1: You know, this is one of the insurance companies. There 51 00:03:28,760 --> 00:03:33,359 Speaker 1: is one other which is something. And of course then 52 00:03:33,400 --> 00:03:37,080 Speaker 1: there'll be questions about whether the government should get involved 53 00:03:37,160 --> 00:03:40,200 Speaker 1: as an insurer of last resort, which we have seen 54 00:03:40,200 --> 00:03:43,960 Speaker 1: those debates happen in places like Miami and California where 55 00:03:43,960 --> 00:03:46,360 Speaker 1: there really has been complete insurance retreat. 56 00:03:47,600 --> 00:03:50,600 Speaker 2: Yeah, so your house is only worth as much as 57 00:03:50,600 --> 00:03:53,240 Speaker 2: a bank is going to give you to loan you 58 00:03:53,360 --> 00:03:53,960 Speaker 2: to buy it. 59 00:03:54,120 --> 00:03:55,840 Speaker 1: I suppose what happens if a. 60 00:03:55,840 --> 00:03:59,960 Speaker 2: Bank approves a loan subject to insurance, and you go, great, 61 00:04:00,640 --> 00:04:03,280 Speaker 2: buy a house unconditional, But then you can't get insurance. 62 00:04:04,480 --> 00:04:06,880 Speaker 1: Yeah, well you want to make sure that it is 63 00:04:06,920 --> 00:04:10,600 Speaker 1: one of those conditions on your sale and purchase agreement. 64 00:04:11,160 --> 00:04:13,000 Speaker 1: But this is the thing. Often you don't find out 65 00:04:13,080 --> 00:04:19,599 Speaker 1: until you apply, and this is the destabilizing and corrosive 66 00:04:19,680 --> 00:04:24,120 Speaker 1: thing about the problem with unmanaged insurance retreat is that 67 00:04:24,120 --> 00:04:28,039 Speaker 1: people only find out at the last minute. And there's 68 00:04:28,040 --> 00:04:31,400 Speaker 1: some interesting problems here where often the owner of the 69 00:04:31,440 --> 00:04:38,200 Speaker 1: house will have been told by the insurer that their 70 00:04:38,279 --> 00:04:40,880 Speaker 1: insurance maybe is not going to roll over, or suddenly 71 00:04:40,920 --> 00:04:44,880 Speaker 1: the pricing is going to change, and then they can 72 00:04:44,920 --> 00:04:47,120 Speaker 1: sell their house, but they know that whoever's going to 73 00:04:47,160 --> 00:04:49,320 Speaker 1: buy it is going to really struggle to get insurance. 74 00:04:49,800 --> 00:04:54,719 Speaker 1: So literally people are receiving letters in their mailboxes which 75 00:04:54,760 --> 00:04:58,160 Speaker 1: are a bit like neutron bombs for their personal finances. 76 00:04:58,640 --> 00:05:01,000 Speaker 1: Suddenly they realize not only are they going to struggle 77 00:05:01,040 --> 00:05:03,039 Speaker 1: to get their own reinsurance or it's going to cost 78 00:05:03,040 --> 00:05:06,520 Speaker 1: a lot more, but they'll really struggle to sell their 79 00:05:06,560 --> 00:05:11,120 Speaker 1: place if there is no insurer ready to take it up. 80 00:05:11,520 --> 00:05:14,159 Speaker 1: And of course, once one insurer pulls back, the other 81 00:05:14,560 --> 00:05:16,760 Speaker 1: insurer is going to ask themselves the question, do I 82 00:05:16,800 --> 00:05:20,200 Speaker 1: really want to increase my risk to this particular place. 83 00:05:20,800 --> 00:05:23,919 Speaker 1: So this is the thing. It's a bit like the 84 00:05:24,000 --> 00:05:27,120 Speaker 1: game of musical chairs. Once the music stops, you better 85 00:05:27,160 --> 00:05:29,200 Speaker 1: be sure you've got your seat on a chair, otherwise 86 00:05:29,200 --> 00:05:32,120 Speaker 1: you're going to miss out. And this is the problem 87 00:05:32,200 --> 00:05:34,680 Speaker 1: for insurance retreat for entire towns. 88 00:05:34,720 --> 00:05:34,960 Speaker 3: Now. 89 00:05:35,520 --> 00:05:39,919 Speaker 1: Often insurance retreat, if the insurers are doing their job properly, 90 00:05:40,360 --> 00:05:43,520 Speaker 1: is not entire towns. It's pretty rare for something like 91 00:05:43,600 --> 00:05:48,240 Speaker 1: Westport to happen. What we're talking about is particular gullies, 92 00:05:48,480 --> 00:05:51,800 Speaker 1: you know, particular places that are vulnerable to slips, Particular 93 00:05:51,880 --> 00:05:56,360 Speaker 1: parts of coastlines, you know, next to cliffs, these sorts 94 00:05:56,400 --> 00:06:00,040 Speaker 1: of things. It's unlikely to be a blanket everyone's but 95 00:06:01,800 --> 00:06:04,799 Speaker 1: before you buy a house, you want to be absolutely 96 00:06:04,880 --> 00:06:08,560 Speaker 1: sure that you can handle let's say, for example, three 97 00:06:08,560 --> 00:06:11,680 Speaker 1: degrees of warming. It's clear now that we're going to 98 00:06:11,720 --> 00:06:15,320 Speaker 1: have probably two degrees of warning warming within twenty years 99 00:06:15,400 --> 00:06:20,200 Speaker 1: or so, and we know from the climate scientists that 100 00:06:20,200 --> 00:06:24,520 Speaker 1: that means even more extreme and more frequent weather events 101 00:06:24,680 --> 00:06:28,000 Speaker 1: like the Gabrielle storms. And this is the issue here 102 00:06:28,080 --> 00:06:32,400 Speaker 1: for people in New Zealand, because we are so reliant 103 00:06:32,400 --> 00:06:35,359 Speaker 1: on our houses for our financial futures. Even more so 104 00:06:36,240 --> 00:06:39,120 Speaker 1: than in the likes of the US or even Australia. 105 00:06:39,160 --> 00:06:41,080 Speaker 2: And it sounds like just all ethics go out the 106 00:06:41,080 --> 00:06:42,840 Speaker 2: window when you're trying to sell your house. 107 00:06:42,920 --> 00:06:46,479 Speaker 1: Hey, well, this is a really interesting question. You know, 108 00:06:46,560 --> 00:06:50,240 Speaker 1: there's that old joke of sergeant's shots from Hogan's Heroes. 109 00:06:50,320 --> 00:06:53,520 Speaker 1: I know nothing, I see nothing, and there will be 110 00:06:53,560 --> 00:06:57,880 Speaker 1: a bunch of realist agents and homeowners who really don't 111 00:06:57,880 --> 00:07:01,039 Speaker 1: want to know, you know, sort of you get to 112 00:07:01,080 --> 00:07:04,039 Speaker 1: the point where, if you suspect that your house may 113 00:07:04,080 --> 00:07:08,760 Speaker 1: not be insurable, do you sell first and ask questions later, 114 00:07:08,880 --> 00:07:11,080 Speaker 1: because then you can't be accused of knowing something and 115 00:07:11,120 --> 00:07:13,880 Speaker 1: not telling it. And that's a really interesting problem for 116 00:07:13,960 --> 00:07:17,200 Speaker 1: real estate agents to follow, and also the regulators of 117 00:07:17,240 --> 00:07:21,160 Speaker 1: real set agents, because disclosure becomes really important in this case, 118 00:07:21,880 --> 00:07:25,200 Speaker 1: and certainly for anyone who's buying in an area that 119 00:07:25,400 --> 00:07:29,280 Speaker 1: might be in some sort of remote question. You want 120 00:07:29,280 --> 00:07:31,640 Speaker 1: to make sure A that you don't commit yourself until 121 00:07:31,640 --> 00:07:34,680 Speaker 1: you know you've got insurance, and b you know, it's 122 00:07:34,720 --> 00:07:37,200 Speaker 1: the question you ask the real estate agent, so is 123 00:07:37,240 --> 00:07:42,000 Speaker 1: this house insurable? And when they when they look blankly 124 00:07:42,040 --> 00:07:45,240 Speaker 1: over the horizon, you know that you've got some other questions. 125 00:07:44,880 --> 00:07:45,400 Speaker 3: To ask. 126 00:07:51,760 --> 00:07:55,240 Speaker 4: People who have built their homes on areas subject to 127 00:07:56,000 --> 00:08:00,120 Speaker 4: liqueth faction. I've seen the disaster that that has caused, 128 00:08:00,360 --> 00:08:03,400 Speaker 4: and those people desperately want to know whether they'll be 129 00:08:03,440 --> 00:08:06,960 Speaker 4: able to rebuild, and if they can't rebuild on their sections, 130 00:08:07,200 --> 00:08:11,560 Speaker 4: what the level of compensation might be for that for 131 00:08:11,600 --> 00:08:15,000 Speaker 4: their plight. I want to know why it is that 132 00:08:15,040 --> 00:08:18,760 Speaker 4: the insurance companies have refused to give cover on people 133 00:08:18,800 --> 00:08:22,520 Speaker 4: moving into new homes for three weeks. What situation does 134 00:08:22,560 --> 00:08:25,680 Speaker 4: that create for people that want to sign up to 135 00:08:25,720 --> 00:08:28,160 Speaker 4: their new home but know they've got to have that protection. 136 00:08:28,560 --> 00:08:30,800 Speaker 4: That's something I hope that the House will be able 137 00:08:30,800 --> 00:08:33,080 Speaker 4: to work with the insurance companies on to get a 138 00:08:33,200 --> 00:08:34,720 Speaker 4: change of attitude. 139 00:08:35,880 --> 00:08:38,800 Speaker 2: When these things happen. So you've got the Auckland Anniversary floods, 140 00:08:38,800 --> 00:08:41,640 Speaker 2: You've got cyclone Gabrielle, and of course the big one 141 00:08:41,679 --> 00:08:44,600 Speaker 2: is the christ Church earthquakes in twenty eleven. They you 142 00:08:44,640 --> 00:08:47,560 Speaker 2: know that huge bills were footed not only by insurance, 143 00:08:47,600 --> 00:08:50,600 Speaker 2: not only by homeowners but the government. And there's questions 144 00:08:50,600 --> 00:08:53,160 Speaker 2: swirling every time one of these weather events happens, is 145 00:08:53,200 --> 00:08:56,240 Speaker 2: that how much when does the buck stop? You know, 146 00:08:56,280 --> 00:08:58,600 Speaker 2: what I mean. So, if you have a house that 147 00:08:58,720 --> 00:09:02,640 Speaker 2: is uninsurable, you can't get it insured and something happens, 148 00:09:02,720 --> 00:09:05,520 Speaker 2: who should or does foot the bill? 149 00:09:06,800 --> 00:09:10,480 Speaker 1: Well, that's the really hot question right now, because as 150 00:09:10,520 --> 00:09:13,560 Speaker 1: you mentioned, in the christ Church earthquake, the government did 151 00:09:13,600 --> 00:09:17,840 Speaker 1: step in essentially topped up the money that was missing 152 00:09:17,960 --> 00:09:23,760 Speaker 1: from EQC, It brought out AMI insurance, essentially rescued that 153 00:09:24,440 --> 00:09:27,920 Speaker 1: and then underwrote and helped fund a big chunk of 154 00:09:27,960 --> 00:09:32,719 Speaker 1: the rebuilt of christ Church. And the same again with Gabrielle. 155 00:09:33,720 --> 00:09:37,479 Speaker 1: The government contributed to the buyouts in pr and elsewhere 156 00:09:37,600 --> 00:09:41,240 Speaker 1: in Auckland and of course in the Hawk's Bay, and 157 00:09:42,200 --> 00:09:45,680 Speaker 1: that cost billions and billions of dollars. Now the current 158 00:09:45,760 --> 00:09:49,240 Speaker 1: government is saying it's not going to step up, that 159 00:09:50,120 --> 00:09:55,679 Speaker 1: it can't afford to back any more of these billions 160 00:09:55,720 --> 00:09:58,720 Speaker 1: and billions of dollars worth of land buyouts. Now that 161 00:09:59,120 --> 00:09:59,880 Speaker 1: is something everyone. 162 00:10:00,200 --> 00:10:00,280 Speaker 2: No. 163 00:10:00,559 --> 00:10:03,640 Speaker 1: I'm sort of surprised it hasn't been front page news 164 00:10:04,559 --> 00:10:10,960 Speaker 1: day in day out, And you can bet your buyout 165 00:10:11,240 --> 00:10:16,240 Speaker 1: that if there was another event like Gabrielle that the 166 00:10:16,320 --> 00:10:20,160 Speaker 1: first question that the politicians will be asked is are 167 00:10:20,200 --> 00:10:24,319 Speaker 1: you really really sure you're not going to be funding 168 00:10:24,360 --> 00:10:28,440 Speaker 1: biats this time because the pain is incredibly intense for 169 00:10:28,480 --> 00:10:30,560 Speaker 1: a lot of people. And you only need to see 170 00:10:30,559 --> 00:10:33,040 Speaker 1: some of those people who missed out on the buyouts, 171 00:10:33,040 --> 00:10:35,280 Speaker 1: who are at the sort of fringes or in the 172 00:10:35,320 --> 00:10:41,200 Speaker 1: boundary of being red zoned or in another area where 173 00:10:41,240 --> 00:10:43,840 Speaker 1: they didn't get a buy it to see how tragic 174 00:10:43,840 --> 00:10:48,680 Speaker 1: it is. And it again forces people who are buying homes, 175 00:10:48,720 --> 00:10:51,720 Speaker 1: who already own homes to have a look at the 176 00:10:51,720 --> 00:10:55,520 Speaker 1: flood maps, ask their insurer, Ask all of the insurers, 177 00:10:55,600 --> 00:10:58,680 Speaker 1: do all of the research so that they are sure 178 00:10:58,960 --> 00:11:01,000 Speaker 1: that if there is an extreme weather event, and not 179 00:11:01,160 --> 00:11:04,400 Speaker 1: just one like they saw it like Gabrielle, but us 180 00:11:04,840 --> 00:11:08,320 Speaker 1: ask themselves the question, what would the flood look like 181 00:11:08,720 --> 00:11:12,840 Speaker 1: at three degrees celsius? Because you're buying a home that 182 00:11:12,880 --> 00:11:16,040 Speaker 1: you might be living in forty fifty years time now. 183 00:11:16,080 --> 00:11:20,079 Speaker 1: Three degrees celsius warmer than pre industrial times means extreme 184 00:11:20,200 --> 00:11:25,040 Speaker 1: extreme extreme weather events. It means polar ice caps melting, 185 00:11:25,200 --> 00:11:29,240 Speaker 1: it means sea level rises of meters and meters, But 186 00:11:29,400 --> 00:11:34,280 Speaker 1: more importantly, the extreme extreme weather events. And ask yourself 187 00:11:34,280 --> 00:11:37,160 Speaker 1: the question, do I get flooded? Is there going to 188 00:11:37,160 --> 00:11:40,559 Speaker 1: be a slip? Is the road to my house going 189 00:11:40,559 --> 00:11:42,760 Speaker 1: to be cut off, what's going to happen to the 190 00:11:42,920 --> 00:11:47,040 Speaker 1: entire town. And then it's a matter of who gets 191 00:11:47,040 --> 00:11:49,520 Speaker 1: the information first and what they do with it. So 192 00:11:49,640 --> 00:11:51,920 Speaker 1: if you find out for everyone else that your house 193 00:11:52,000 --> 00:11:54,960 Speaker 1: is in danger and you can somehow sell it and 194 00:11:55,000 --> 00:11:58,920 Speaker 1: flick it before someone else, well, you know, every man 195 00:11:58,960 --> 00:12:02,640 Speaker 1: and woman in home and of themselves. That's what happens 196 00:12:02,679 --> 00:12:05,640 Speaker 1: when the government steps back and says, well, I'm going 197 00:12:05,679 --> 00:12:08,520 Speaker 1: to wash my hands of this situation. A, you ask 198 00:12:08,720 --> 00:12:12,240 Speaker 1: are you really really sure? Because the political pressure will 199 00:12:12,280 --> 00:12:15,080 Speaker 1: be intense in such an event like this, But B 200 00:12:15,600 --> 00:12:18,200 Speaker 1: if you're not sure that the politicians are going to 201 00:12:18,200 --> 00:12:23,080 Speaker 1: step up, then it's all everyone for themselves. It is 202 00:12:23,160 --> 00:12:26,000 Speaker 1: the game of musical chairs where you really jump on 203 00:12:26,040 --> 00:12:29,280 Speaker 1: the chair before someone else. And that's why these flood 204 00:12:29,320 --> 00:12:31,840 Speaker 1: maps are so important, why the questions to insurers are 205 00:12:31,840 --> 00:12:35,199 Speaker 1: so important, why the public statements from insurers and from 206 00:12:35,240 --> 00:12:39,640 Speaker 1: banks are important, because it's not just the insurers that 207 00:12:39,679 --> 00:12:42,760 Speaker 1: matter here. The banks are actually quite a way behind 208 00:12:42,840 --> 00:12:46,679 Speaker 1: the insurers in their process of risk analysis on understanding 209 00:12:46,960 --> 00:12:50,800 Speaker 1: just how risky their books are. And you to know, 210 00:12:50,880 --> 00:12:54,520 Speaker 1: for example, that there are still houses being sold in 211 00:12:54,640 --> 00:12:57,320 Speaker 1: very low lying coastal areas that there are still banks 212 00:12:57,520 --> 00:13:02,080 Speaker 1: lending money off the question will they still be lending 213 00:13:02,080 --> 00:13:04,120 Speaker 1: in five or ten years time, Because if you've bought 214 00:13:04,160 --> 00:13:05,560 Speaker 1: the house now and you want to sell it in 215 00:13:05,559 --> 00:13:09,080 Speaker 1: ten or fifteen years time, that's when you better be 216 00:13:09,120 --> 00:13:12,520 Speaker 1: sure that the banks haven't caught up. My perception of 217 00:13:13,040 --> 00:13:16,520 Speaker 1: how the insurance and banking system is connected to real 218 00:13:16,600 --> 00:13:20,360 Speaker 1: estate in New Zealand is that the insurance are way 219 00:13:20,400 --> 00:13:22,679 Speaker 1: ahead of the banks in a set of risk assessment, 220 00:13:22,920 --> 00:13:26,439 Speaker 1: in building their flood maps and understanding exactly which houses 221 00:13:26,440 --> 00:13:29,200 Speaker 1: are going to be in danger at two degrees, at 222 00:13:29,200 --> 00:13:32,280 Speaker 1: three degrees, at four degrees. The banks have not done 223 00:13:32,320 --> 00:13:37,960 Speaker 1: that work, and they've got some serious risks to manage now. 224 00:13:39,200 --> 00:13:41,080 Speaker 1: Just like anything, no one wants to scare the horses. 225 00:13:41,120 --> 00:13:43,280 Speaker 1: No one wants to suddenly announce right, we're going to 226 00:13:43,760 --> 00:13:47,760 Speaker 1: cut all of the homes that are vulnerable at two 227 00:13:47,800 --> 00:13:51,520 Speaker 1: degrees celsius. These things tend to happen in dribs and TRAbs, 228 00:13:51,520 --> 00:13:54,160 Speaker 1: and behind the scenes. There are the neutron bombs in 229 00:13:54,280 --> 00:13:58,560 Speaker 1: our real estate and personal finance environment. They are the 230 00:13:58,640 --> 00:14:02,200 Speaker 1: letters you get, They are the shocks you get when 231 00:14:02,240 --> 00:14:04,400 Speaker 1: you're talking on the phone to the person at the 232 00:14:04,400 --> 00:14:07,840 Speaker 1: health desk saying actually, no, I can't reassure you, or no, 233 00:14:08,080 --> 00:14:10,120 Speaker 1: I'm not going to give you that loan. And that's 234 00:14:10,120 --> 00:14:13,840 Speaker 1: where people need to get down ahead of these neutron 235 00:14:13,920 --> 00:14:18,400 Speaker 1: bombs and make sure that a their home is not 236 00:14:18,480 --> 00:14:22,000 Speaker 1: subject to this potential insurance retreat and b if they are, 237 00:14:22,480 --> 00:14:27,280 Speaker 1: that they can get out and manage to fleck it 238 00:14:27,320 --> 00:14:28,120 Speaker 1: onto someone else. 239 00:14:28,800 --> 00:14:30,360 Speaker 2: When you talk about the banks, though, is it a 240 00:14:30,400 --> 00:14:32,440 Speaker 2: bit of a chicken and egg situation. Is it the 241 00:14:32,480 --> 00:14:35,040 Speaker 2: bank's loaning or should they loan? Or is it the 242 00:14:35,080 --> 00:14:39,400 Speaker 2: council's consenting houses in flood for own areas. 243 00:14:40,080 --> 00:14:42,440 Speaker 1: Wow, that's a really interesting one for new homes. And 244 00:14:42,520 --> 00:14:46,880 Speaker 1: of course we've seen a whole bunch of shockingly to me, 245 00:14:47,440 --> 00:14:50,480 Speaker 1: a whole bunch of homes that have been consented after 246 00:14:51,640 --> 00:14:54,560 Speaker 1: after Gabrielle. You know, huge chunks of houses are in 247 00:14:54,600 --> 00:14:59,040 Speaker 1: flood zones and that for me is shocking. A that 248 00:14:59,120 --> 00:15:01,960 Speaker 1: the bank's link against it, be that there were insurers 249 00:15:02,120 --> 00:15:04,920 Speaker 1: who put money against it, and to see of course 250 00:15:04,920 --> 00:15:09,120 Speaker 1: that the council decided to give the consents because in 251 00:15:09,160 --> 00:15:12,360 Speaker 1: a way a bit like leaky buildings you know, there's 252 00:15:12,400 --> 00:15:14,400 Speaker 1: a risk here for the councils that they are stuck 253 00:15:14,480 --> 00:15:17,560 Speaker 1: as the you know, the last man standing, so to speak. 254 00:15:17,600 --> 00:15:20,200 Speaker 1: If there is any legal action, then we have the 255 00:15:20,880 --> 00:15:23,480 Speaker 1: Let's say there is another major event and these homes, 256 00:15:23,480 --> 00:15:27,240 Speaker 1: these brand new homes get wiped out. Who's going to 257 00:15:27,240 --> 00:15:30,840 Speaker 1: be responsible. Do we have class action lawsuits against the councils, 258 00:15:31,280 --> 00:15:33,760 Speaker 1: or is the building companies? Or is the banks? Or 259 00:15:33,800 --> 00:15:37,160 Speaker 1: is it the insurers. And that's why I was surprised 260 00:15:37,280 --> 00:15:40,880 Speaker 1: that A people went ahead with these things, and b 261 00:15:41,200 --> 00:15:44,000 Speaker 1: that the banks and the insurers and their councils hadn't 262 00:15:44,960 --> 00:15:47,240 Speaker 1: put their hands up and said no. Now everyone's under 263 00:15:47,240 --> 00:15:50,800 Speaker 1: intense pressure to get houses built. You know, some of 264 00:15:49,840 --> 00:15:54,360 Speaker 1: these plots of land next to rivers and beaches are lovely, 265 00:15:54,600 --> 00:15:57,280 Speaker 1: you know, everyone loves a beach view or a you 266 00:15:57,280 --> 00:16:00,400 Speaker 1: know close to a lake or you know, close to 267 00:16:00,440 --> 00:16:04,720 Speaker 1: the river or whatever. But before you signed on the 268 00:16:04,720 --> 00:16:09,560 Speaker 1: dotted line, go to the flood maps. I, for example, 269 00:16:09,560 --> 00:16:11,920 Speaker 1: in the last couple of years of a bord A home, 270 00:16:12,560 --> 00:16:16,040 Speaker 1: and the first question I asked, in fact, even before 271 00:16:16,040 --> 00:16:18,360 Speaker 1: I went to the open home, was what does the 272 00:16:18,400 --> 00:16:22,840 Speaker 1: flood map say at three degrees Celsius. And we only 273 00:16:22,960 --> 00:16:26,240 Speaker 1: even decided to look at it after we'd seen that 274 00:16:26,280 --> 00:16:29,000 Speaker 1: flood map and were confident that it was fresh and good, 275 00:16:29,600 --> 00:16:32,280 Speaker 1: and after we'd called the bank and the insurance and said, 276 00:16:32,400 --> 00:16:36,800 Speaker 1: what's the situation here? And you also can't trust the 277 00:16:36,800 --> 00:16:39,600 Speaker 1: banks and insurers because they don't know what they're who's 278 00:16:39,600 --> 00:16:42,320 Speaker 1: going to be making that decision in fifteen years town. 279 00:16:42,880 --> 00:16:46,240 Speaker 1: Everyone has to become an amateur geographer. Everyone has to 280 00:16:46,240 --> 00:16:49,640 Speaker 1: look at the flood maps and make a call, Actually 281 00:16:49,800 --> 00:16:52,640 Speaker 1: that road is going to be flooded, That road could 282 00:16:52,680 --> 00:16:56,320 Speaker 1: be wiped out, for example, as we've seen with these 283 00:16:56,400 --> 00:17:01,400 Speaker 1: state highways on the East coast, weeks and weeks out 284 00:17:01,600 --> 00:17:05,560 Speaker 1: and Gisbon's just had several weeks of much lower economic 285 00:17:05,600 --> 00:17:08,600 Speaker 1: activity because of it. So if you were asking yourself 286 00:17:08,600 --> 00:17:10,520 Speaker 1: the question should I set up a business here? Should 287 00:17:10,560 --> 00:17:14,440 Speaker 1: I buy a home here? You're not only asking about 288 00:17:14,600 --> 00:17:18,040 Speaker 1: your particular property. Is it covered by the flood maps? 289 00:17:18,400 --> 00:17:21,160 Speaker 1: What would happen at three degrees? What would happen if 290 00:17:21,160 --> 00:17:25,240 Speaker 1: this river overflowed twice as badly as I've ever seen 291 00:17:25,280 --> 00:17:29,439 Speaker 1: it before, but also what happens to access to my 292 00:17:29,560 --> 00:17:34,280 Speaker 1: town if that particular highway gets wiped out again. So 293 00:17:34,680 --> 00:17:37,960 Speaker 1: these are the issues that New Zealanders should be asking 294 00:17:38,000 --> 00:17:42,440 Speaker 1: themselves when they're thinking about property in their own financial futures. 295 00:17:42,480 --> 00:17:47,040 Speaker 1: And we should be asking politicians and bankers insurers about well. 296 00:17:46,960 --> 00:17:48,719 Speaker 2: In terms of I mean, I'm going to play devil's 297 00:17:48,760 --> 00:17:53,760 Speaker 2: advocate here in terms of new homeowners. You people out 298 00:17:53,800 --> 00:17:57,439 Speaker 2: there buying these places. Are we getting angry at the 299 00:17:57,480 --> 00:18:00,560 Speaker 2: snake oil salesman or should we get angry the people 300 00:18:00,800 --> 00:18:04,199 Speaker 2: who are buying the snake oil from the salesman and 301 00:18:04,280 --> 00:18:05,360 Speaker 2: not doing their research. 302 00:18:06,400 --> 00:18:09,520 Speaker 1: Well, you don't really have anyone to blame except for yourself, 303 00:18:10,119 --> 00:18:12,680 Speaker 1: because a lot of this information is out there publicly. 304 00:18:12,880 --> 00:18:15,280 Speaker 1: If it's not well, then you don't go ahead with 305 00:18:15,320 --> 00:18:19,679 Speaker 1: the purchase. Yes, everyone wants to sell you something. There 306 00:18:19,680 --> 00:18:22,280 Speaker 1: are real st agents, they are developers. There are even 307 00:18:22,359 --> 00:18:26,159 Speaker 1: counsels and mayors and counselors who want to sell you something. 308 00:18:26,440 --> 00:18:30,040 Speaker 1: And it usually is something right now, and they get 309 00:18:30,080 --> 00:18:34,960 Speaker 1: the cash and you get the asset and there's no comeback. Often, 310 00:18:35,640 --> 00:18:37,320 Speaker 1: or if it is, it involves an awful lot of 311 00:18:37,400 --> 00:18:40,280 Speaker 1: legal work or a lot of pain and grief. So 312 00:18:40,600 --> 00:18:43,080 Speaker 1: you want to make sure you make the right decision 313 00:18:43,200 --> 00:18:48,359 Speaker 1: and Ultimately, the responsibility lies with the buyer. 314 00:18:48,680 --> 00:18:51,480 Speaker 2: Buyer beware, and people hate that though because they always 315 00:18:51,520 --> 00:18:54,400 Speaker 2: want somebody else to blame. And that's in life as well. Hey, 316 00:18:54,960 --> 00:18:56,800 Speaker 2: but at the end of the day, if you buy 317 00:18:56,840 --> 00:19:00,639 Speaker 2: into something and it's a really bad investment, if you put, 318 00:19:00,680 --> 00:19:03,239 Speaker 2: you know, one hundred thousand dollars into bitcoin when it 319 00:19:03,320 --> 00:19:06,720 Speaker 2: was on its way down, that's kind. 320 00:19:06,520 --> 00:19:10,840 Speaker 1: Of on you, exactly. And that's why I think it's 321 00:19:10,880 --> 00:19:14,800 Speaker 1: worth raising these issues for everyone. Now. You know, it's 322 00:19:14,840 --> 00:19:18,359 Speaker 1: quite hard to do that, to be frank, because our 323 00:19:18,760 --> 00:19:23,520 Speaker 1: entire society, our entire economy, is a housing market with 324 00:19:23,560 --> 00:19:27,600 Speaker 1: bitstacked on. And when you jump up and say, you know, 325 00:19:28,240 --> 00:19:31,199 Speaker 1: there's two hundred to four hundred billion dollars worth of 326 00:19:31,320 --> 00:19:35,440 Speaker 1: property in New Zealand that is in danger in a 327 00:19:35,800 --> 00:19:40,880 Speaker 1: climate with three degrees of warming within most of our lifetimes, 328 00:19:42,480 --> 00:19:45,520 Speaker 1: it's not a nice thing to hear. And also it's 329 00:19:45,600 --> 00:19:50,439 Speaker 1: quite nerve wrecking. And if you're your business or your 330 00:19:50,440 --> 00:19:56,040 Speaker 1: political party or your company or whatever is dependent on 331 00:19:56,600 --> 00:20:00,360 Speaker 1: sales continuing to go, because I remember, New Zealand now 332 00:20:00,440 --> 00:20:05,680 Speaker 1: doesn't really grow people's personal financial wealth through any sort 333 00:20:05,720 --> 00:20:08,720 Speaker 1: of real production or exports or anything. Like that. Actually 334 00:20:08,760 --> 00:20:12,280 Speaker 1: it's just about whether the house failure goes up. Then 335 00:20:12,560 --> 00:20:15,520 Speaker 1: if the house failure goes down, that's a problem for 336 00:20:15,640 --> 00:20:18,080 Speaker 1: everyone because we don't know how to do it any 337 00:20:18,080 --> 00:20:21,760 Speaker 1: other way. We can't handle the truth of if house 338 00:20:21,800 --> 00:20:25,480 Speaker 1: prices go down, what happens then, particularly if it's our 339 00:20:25,560 --> 00:20:31,200 Speaker 1: house that went down after someone pointed out that it's 340 00:20:30,240 --> 00:20:34,520 Speaker 1: in danger in a three degree warmer society. Of course, 341 00:20:34,520 --> 00:20:39,919 Speaker 1: the other final problem is, of course, is that somehow consumers, homeowners, 342 00:20:39,960 --> 00:20:43,560 Speaker 1: home buyers, real estate agents are all letting politicians off 343 00:20:43,600 --> 00:20:48,320 Speaker 1: the hook on the issue of climate change by believing 344 00:20:48,480 --> 00:20:52,600 Speaker 1: somehow that addressing climate change is expensive, when we know 345 00:20:53,080 --> 00:20:56,600 Speaker 1: not addressing climate change is not an expensive it's ruinous. 346 00:20:57,040 --> 00:21:00,000 Speaker 1: So this is where these issues need to be done. 347 00:21:06,640 --> 00:21:09,119 Speaker 2: Will you be able to get home insurance by twenty 348 00:21:09,160 --> 00:21:09,880 Speaker 2: thirty five. 349 00:21:09,880 --> 00:21:12,040 Speaker 3: It depends on a lot. It's unaffordable for a lot 350 00:21:12,040 --> 00:21:14,800 Speaker 3: of people at the moment, and some insurance companies don't 351 00:21:14,840 --> 00:21:17,480 Speaker 3: cover some people in some really hazardous areas. There needs 352 00:21:17,480 --> 00:21:20,119 Speaker 3: to be big structural changes to how we ensure how 353 00:21:20,200 --> 00:21:21,800 Speaker 3: we protect at risk areas. 354 00:21:21,960 --> 00:21:24,840 Speaker 1: Why has it become so unaffordable. 355 00:21:24,280 --> 00:21:26,679 Speaker 3: For the Zilderts with challenge now is climate change and 356 00:21:26,720 --> 00:21:28,760 Speaker 3: how we deal with it. We've got more frequents of 357 00:21:28,800 --> 00:21:30,960 Speaker 3: their weather events which are just upping the ante. Every 358 00:21:30,960 --> 00:21:34,000 Speaker 3: time there'sn't a big disaster, insurance premiums go up in 359 00:21:34,040 --> 00:21:35,919 Speaker 3: order to pay for it, in order to top up 360 00:21:35,960 --> 00:21:38,720 Speaker 3: the coffers for the insurance. At the moment, there's lots 361 00:21:38,760 --> 00:21:41,240 Speaker 3: of brands, but there's only two big companies that are 362 00:21:41,320 --> 00:21:44,080 Speaker 3: underwriting most of the insurance policies in New Zealand, and 363 00:21:44,080 --> 00:21:45,000 Speaker 3: they're Aussie based. 364 00:21:47,040 --> 00:21:49,840 Speaker 2: There's so much involved in buying a house though. Hey, 365 00:21:49,880 --> 00:21:52,240 Speaker 2: and it's all well and good to say, well, buyer beware, 366 00:21:52,520 --> 00:21:57,240 Speaker 2: I suppose, but you know, it can be really intimidating 367 00:21:57,280 --> 00:22:00,359 Speaker 2: and overwhelming for someone who doesn't realize. I've had a 368 00:22:00,359 --> 00:22:03,320 Speaker 2: few people buy houses and I had no idea the 369 00:22:03,359 --> 00:22:06,120 Speaker 2: paperwork and the checks and everything behind it. 370 00:22:06,720 --> 00:22:08,320 Speaker 1: Does responsibility lie. 371 00:22:08,119 --> 00:22:11,520 Speaker 2: Somewhere to educate people on these things and make sure 372 00:22:11,560 --> 00:22:14,560 Speaker 2: that they know what they're getting into before they start 373 00:22:14,600 --> 00:22:15,439 Speaker 2: that process. 374 00:22:16,560 --> 00:22:18,960 Speaker 1: Yeah, and that's why you're doing a great service here 375 00:22:19,080 --> 00:22:23,919 Speaker 1: in talking about this and making it available publicly. But 376 00:22:23,960 --> 00:22:32,639 Speaker 1: also governments, banks, insurers, you know Onwoodsman, consumer focused organizations, 377 00:22:33,320 --> 00:22:39,520 Speaker 1: these sorts of public interest players should be talking about 378 00:22:39,520 --> 00:22:42,840 Speaker 1: this day in day out and making people aware. Now 379 00:22:42,880 --> 00:22:44,280 Speaker 1: on the other side of their coin, there'll be a 380 00:22:44,280 --> 00:22:46,960 Speaker 1: bunch of people going, oh, don't worry. You know, we've 381 00:22:47,000 --> 00:22:49,960 Speaker 1: had so many warnings of pact. She'll be right, she'll 382 00:22:50,000 --> 00:22:52,360 Speaker 1: be right. Well, tell that to the people in pr 383 00:22:52,560 --> 00:22:56,000 Speaker 1: or the people in taid Arfiti, or you know, the 384 00:22:56,040 --> 00:23:01,080 Speaker 1: people who even now are still battling to get their 385 00:23:01,160 --> 00:23:04,159 Speaker 1: money back from the house they've had to rebuild, and 386 00:23:04,160 --> 00:23:08,240 Speaker 1: the insurre is still not talking to them, or or 387 00:23:08,520 --> 00:23:11,440 Speaker 1: you know, the government saying we're not going to bale 388 00:23:11,520 --> 00:23:16,000 Speaker 1: out next time. It is absolutely essential to be on 389 00:23:16,040 --> 00:23:18,080 Speaker 1: top of these things. If you're going to make a 390 00:23:18,160 --> 00:23:22,080 Speaker 1: massive financial decision based on she'll be right, well, she 391 00:23:22,160 --> 00:23:28,040 Speaker 1: won't be right. And if you're making that decision without 392 00:23:28,040 --> 00:23:33,560 Speaker 1: having done the work, then it's on you. And trying 393 00:23:33,600 --> 00:23:36,000 Speaker 1: to recover these things after the fact is much more 394 00:23:36,080 --> 00:23:39,520 Speaker 1: dangerous and painful and awful than you can imagine. Just 395 00:23:39,640 --> 00:23:42,359 Speaker 1: read all of the reports which is in Herald and 396 00:23:42,400 --> 00:23:44,840 Speaker 1: lots of other publications have got them about people who 397 00:23:45,240 --> 00:23:48,720 Speaker 1: suddenly found themselves in a situation where the insurer won't pay, 398 00:23:48,880 --> 00:23:52,040 Speaker 1: the government won't pay, and they're stuck with their main 399 00:23:52,200 --> 00:23:58,000 Speaker 1: financial asset being not only sometimes worthless, but even to 400 00:23:58,040 --> 00:23:59,200 Speaker 1: live in it, they're going to have to spend a 401 00:23:59,200 --> 00:24:02,800 Speaker 1: lot more money on top of whatever they've got. 402 00:24:03,760 --> 00:24:05,879 Speaker 2: Well, the fact of the matter is these things, you know, 403 00:24:05,960 --> 00:24:10,399 Speaker 2: these weather events, are gonna become more and more frequent, 404 00:24:10,640 --> 00:24:13,919 Speaker 2: especially with climate change. You've got I'm going back to 405 00:24:13,920 --> 00:24:17,560 Speaker 2: twenty twenty three Auckland Anniversary floods and psych loan Gabrielle. 406 00:24:17,600 --> 00:24:21,680 Speaker 2: They were the second and third largest ever insurance events 407 00:24:21,720 --> 00:24:25,000 Speaker 2: in New Zealand, and they happened within a fortnight of 408 00:24:25,040 --> 00:24:28,600 Speaker 2: each other, and ten years after, you know, ten or 409 00:24:28,640 --> 00:24:30,800 Speaker 2: so years after the first one. So I mean that's 410 00:24:30,880 --> 00:24:32,520 Speaker 2: no coincidence, right. 411 00:24:33,200 --> 00:24:35,840 Speaker 1: No, And this is exactly what the climate scientists warned 412 00:24:35,920 --> 00:24:39,080 Speaker 1: us that these events, these so called one and one 413 00:24:39,160 --> 00:24:42,200 Speaker 1: hundred year events, are going to be much more frequent 414 00:24:42,320 --> 00:24:45,600 Speaker 1: and much more intense. And we know that New Zealand 415 00:24:45,680 --> 00:24:47,840 Speaker 1: is particularly vulnerable because we're in the middle of a big, 416 00:24:47,840 --> 00:24:52,600 Speaker 1: wide ocean, which generates weather when it gets warmer. I mean, 417 00:24:52,840 --> 00:24:57,480 Speaker 1: it's basic science. Really, the oceans get warmer, there's a 418 00:24:57,480 --> 00:25:01,159 Speaker 1: lot more evaporation and water it gets into the atmosphere 419 00:25:01,200 --> 00:25:05,440 Speaker 1: and then it lands on some land somewhere and dumps. 420 00:25:05,720 --> 00:25:09,919 Speaker 1: And that's what's happened as the oceans around us have 421 00:25:10,000 --> 00:25:14,119 Speaker 1: warmed up. And in twenty twenty five we saw the 422 00:25:14,240 --> 00:25:19,760 Speaker 1: greatest increase in ocean temperatures in history to again another 423 00:25:19,920 --> 00:25:23,600 Speaker 1: record high. And this is simply the world's oceans absorbing 424 00:25:23,640 --> 00:25:30,320 Speaker 1: heat from an atmosphere heated up by climate emissions caused 425 00:25:30,320 --> 00:25:34,960 Speaker 1: by humans. And to be frank, to hear public figures, 426 00:25:35,440 --> 00:25:39,280 Speaker 1: our former deputy prime minister now our foreign minister, whole 427 00:25:39,280 --> 00:25:43,000 Speaker 1: bunches of political parties, good chunks of voters, many of 428 00:25:43,040 --> 00:25:46,359 Speaker 1: the commenters on all sorts of things saying, Ahn, she'll 429 00:25:46,400 --> 00:25:51,160 Speaker 1: be right, it won't be right, and you're wrong because 430 00:25:51,160 --> 00:25:56,400 Speaker 1: the climate science is right. And next time you buy 431 00:25:56,440 --> 00:26:00,080 Speaker 1: a house, don't be denying climate change. 432 00:26:00,600 --> 00:26:01,480 Speaker 4: Well, what more. 433 00:26:01,359 --> 00:26:03,919 Speaker 2: Could the government do? Do you think? Should we have 434 00:26:04,040 --> 00:26:07,360 Speaker 2: kind of as you know, apart from stepping in and 435 00:26:07,400 --> 00:26:11,440 Speaker 2: making sure people are right when they are uninsured, should 436 00:26:11,480 --> 00:26:14,240 Speaker 2: we have some kind of legislation in place, because at 437 00:26:14,280 --> 00:26:16,800 Speaker 2: the end of the day, if you don't have any 438 00:26:16,840 --> 00:26:19,680 Speaker 2: options to ensure your house, I can just imagine there'll 439 00:26:19,680 --> 00:26:24,280 Speaker 2: be some grifty little snake oil salesman out there being like, oh, 440 00:26:24,400 --> 00:26:26,840 Speaker 2: we will ensure your house, you know, like those by 441 00:26:26,920 --> 00:26:30,639 Speaker 2: now pay later kind of that crew are probably sitting 442 00:26:30,640 --> 00:26:33,639 Speaker 2: on tender hooks for people not to have any other option. 443 00:26:33,800 --> 00:26:36,800 Speaker 1: Hey yeah, I mean this is where the Reserve Bank 444 00:26:37,600 --> 00:26:40,359 Speaker 1: is the regulator of the insurance sector and has to 445 00:26:40,359 --> 00:26:43,360 Speaker 1: think about climate change a lot. And that's something that 446 00:26:43,520 --> 00:26:46,800 Speaker 1: the funders of the Reserve Bank the government should be 447 00:26:46,840 --> 00:26:49,600 Speaker 1: aware of when they start cutting budgets for reserve banks 448 00:26:49,600 --> 00:26:52,440 Speaker 1: and saying that climate change doesn't matter. That's the position 449 00:26:52,560 --> 00:26:55,960 Speaker 1: of for example, the Act Buddy that the Reserve Bank 450 00:26:55,960 --> 00:26:59,040 Speaker 1: shouldn't have to think about climate change. Of course it 451 00:26:59,080 --> 00:27:04,280 Speaker 1: does because it regulates insurers. And if it allows insurers 452 00:27:04,280 --> 00:27:07,360 Speaker 1: to set up and sell insurance and not have enough 453 00:27:07,440 --> 00:27:11,320 Speaker 1: capital because they haven't taken climate change into account and 454 00:27:11,520 --> 00:27:13,919 Speaker 1: aren't prepared for these big events, well that's on the 455 00:27:13,920 --> 00:27:18,800 Speaker 1: Reserve Bank and on essentially the government for perhaps not 456 00:27:18,880 --> 00:27:22,359 Speaker 1: funding the Reserve Bank properly or not following up and 457 00:27:22,400 --> 00:27:25,600 Speaker 1: monitoring its performance on those mandates. But then it's not 458 00:27:25,680 --> 00:27:27,560 Speaker 1: just the Reserve Bank as well when it comes to 459 00:27:27,680 --> 00:27:31,680 Speaker 1: banking and insurance, it's about the government and the councils 460 00:27:32,520 --> 00:27:36,119 Speaker 1: starting to think about climate, not only emissions reduction, but 461 00:27:36,200 --> 00:27:41,760 Speaker 1: also climate adaptation and climate preparedness. You know, for example, 462 00:27:42,480 --> 00:27:46,320 Speaker 1: have we thought about how strong these river banks are? 463 00:27:46,440 --> 00:27:49,439 Speaker 1: How much are we prepared to invest? Maybe it's actually 464 00:27:49,520 --> 00:27:52,960 Speaker 1: cheaper to relocate people than to build a really high 465 00:27:53,480 --> 00:27:58,080 Speaker 1: stop bank. Or maybe it's cheaper to say to the 466 00:27:58,080 --> 00:28:03,199 Speaker 1: people of Gispin or whatever that, you know what, we 467 00:28:03,280 --> 00:28:08,920 Speaker 1: can't afford to build this really bulletproof, gold plated new 468 00:28:09,000 --> 00:28:15,080 Speaker 1: highway that will never wash out. You should move or 469 00:28:15,280 --> 00:28:18,399 Speaker 1: whatever it is. I mean, there are debates that are happening. 470 00:28:18,440 --> 00:28:21,920 Speaker 1: For example, in Westport, the last mayor of Westport was 471 00:28:22,000 --> 00:28:24,720 Speaker 1: voted out because he even talked about moving the town. 472 00:28:24,920 --> 00:28:30,119 Speaker 1: Well that's because an entire town decided to ignore climate change. 473 00:28:30,160 --> 00:28:34,280 Speaker 1: Well ye, that's fair enough. But the people who actually 474 00:28:34,359 --> 00:28:38,920 Speaker 1: believe in science and understand how climate works will know 475 00:28:39,080 --> 00:28:43,880 Speaker 1: that a mass solution is not a solution. And so 476 00:28:44,120 --> 00:28:48,560 Speaker 1: this is where you know, politicians, the media, public figures 477 00:28:48,800 --> 00:28:54,480 Speaker 1: should be talking about the science and believing the scientists 478 00:28:54,840 --> 00:28:57,600 Speaker 1: who have done the work over decades and decades and 479 00:28:57,680 --> 00:29:02,120 Speaker 1: have been absolutely right when they start thinking and talking 480 00:29:02,160 --> 00:29:10,320 Speaker 1: about these things. And I have absolutely no sympathy or 481 00:29:10,520 --> 00:29:16,120 Speaker 1: empathy for people in public life who question the effects 482 00:29:16,120 --> 00:29:18,920 Speaker 1: of climate change or they need to address it, or 483 00:29:19,280 --> 00:29:22,200 Speaker 1: that things that haven't happened in front of my nose 484 00:29:22,360 --> 00:29:24,800 Speaker 1: in the last ten minutes are not real things. They are. 485 00:29:25,040 --> 00:29:31,680 Speaker 2: Thanks for joining us, Bernard. Yes, that's it for this 486 00:29:31,760 --> 00:29:35,040 Speaker 2: episode of The Front Page. You can read more about 487 00:29:35,080 --> 00:29:39,320 Speaker 2: today's stories and extensive news coverage at enzidherld dot co 488 00:29:39,560 --> 00:29:42,840 Speaker 2: dot nz. The Front Page is hosted and produced by 489 00:29:42,920 --> 00:29:47,920 Speaker 2: me Chelsea Daniels Caine. Dicky is our studio operator, Richard Martin, 490 00:29:48,040 --> 00:29:52,320 Speaker 2: our producer and editor, and our executive producer is Jane Ye. 491 00:29:52,720 --> 00:29:55,640 Speaker 2: Follow the Front Page on the iHeart app or wherever 492 00:29:55,680 --> 00:29:58,800 Speaker 2: you get your podcasts, and join us next time for 493 00:29:58,840 --> 00:30:01,120 Speaker 2: another look beyond under the headlines.