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Speaker 1: Right.

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Speaker 2: Well, if building consents drive you nuts for all of

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Speaker 2: the fiddly rules and the things that make absolutely no

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Speaker 2: sense at all, there might be some hope coming. The

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Speaker 2: government is considering some major reform of the system, potentially

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Speaker 2: seeing sixty seven authorities replaced with you who knows just

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Speaker 2: one maybe and with us. Now is the building in construction,

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Speaker 2: Minister Chris Panka.

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Speaker 1: Kris boarding header mate?

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Speaker 2: When you are thinking about this, have you got the

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Speaker 2: old leaky homes front and center?

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Speaker 1: Yeah? Absolutely, Look, we're always considering how we can avoid

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Speaker 1: a scenario would lower the quality. We don't want to

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Speaker 1: do that. But the system is so inefficient at the moment.

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Speaker 1: You can actually get gained without reducing standards just by

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Speaker 1: having things much more joined up and actually much more

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Speaker 1: serious and inconsistent, including across those different sixty seven building

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Speaker 1: consent authorities that you just mentioned.

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Speaker 2: How can you But here's the thing, how can you

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Speaker 2: have certainty and inconsistency if you've still got humans in

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Speaker 2: different building yet? Like, even if you've just got two

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Speaker 2: humans trying to interpret the same set of rules, there's

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Speaker 2: going to be potentially wacky ideas well.

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Speaker 1: That's always going to be true at a level but

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Speaker 1: at the moment, you've got a recipe for greater level

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Speaker 1: of disaster in that regard because you've got all these

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Speaker 1: different organizations, each with their own interpretation. Of course, they've

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Speaker 1: all got their own risk profile because with joint and

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Speaker 1: several liability, in other words, one hundred percent of being

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Speaker 1: in the gun for what goes wrong if something falls over,

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Speaker 1: then they're all sort of very diligently during their own

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Speaker 1: thing in their own little corners of New Zealand. So

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Speaker 1: you maximize that. But with this human potential for subjective interpretations.

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Speaker 1: The other way you deal with that is you actually

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Speaker 1: have mechanisms we can say, well, I can cross check.

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Speaker 1: You know a number of builders who say to me,

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Speaker 1: I don't want to challenge the council because then I'm

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Speaker 1: going to be on some sort of blacklist, and that's

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Speaker 1: their only art of call. Whereas if you open it

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Speaker 1: up a bit more, they actually divide the possibility of

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Speaker 1: having some common sense applies for some of these ridiculous

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Speaker 1: stories that you do.

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Speaker 2: Hear about what's your preference at the moment, do you

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Speaker 2: want to allow these guys to voluntarily get together and

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Speaker 2: decide how to voluntarily amalgamate basically, or do you want

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Speaker 2: to force them or do you just want one national

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Speaker 2: body handing out these building consents.

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Speaker 1: Well, I'd mostly been thinking on the lines of a

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Speaker 1: single national body, although with the caveat that that would

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Speaker 1: look like farming out to a combination of existing ones,

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Speaker 1: as in the councilors might want to continue to do

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Speaker 1: that work somewhat by the way, Some do have the resources,

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Speaker 1: especially the smaller towns, but also maybe some private certifiers,

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Speaker 1: particularly backed by the accreditation and the insurance that would

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Speaker 1: go with that. So that had been my thinking, to

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Speaker 1: be honest, but wanting to talk with the sector. But recently,

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Speaker 1: actually a lot of them have come to me with

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Speaker 1: this idea of voluntarily consolidating resources within the region. So

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Speaker 1: I'm open to that. I don't really care in a way.

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Speaker 1: I just want a better system than what we've got,

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Speaker 1: which is any of the three options we put this,

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Speaker 1: I would.

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Speaker 2: Agree with that. Hey, so listen, we're getting a lot

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Speaker 2: of talk about the fact that there is like there

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Speaker 2: are varying rules, right. Have you got an example of

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Speaker 2: one rule that you get different interpretations of across councils.

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Speaker 1: Well, I mean so many different ones. I think that

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Speaker 1: the classic one is when you have one council approving

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Speaker 1: a set of plans and then another council not doing that,

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Speaker 1: so not even tuning up with inspections, and you can

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Speaker 1: sort of have a subjective opinion about whether enough screws

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Speaker 1: or whatever. A consens plan in accordance with the building

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Speaker 1: code that applies to the whole country should be the

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Speaker 1: same in any given area. And the problem with that,

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Speaker 1: of course is that when you've got builders who are

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Speaker 1: working at scale because they're doing offsite manufacturing in one

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Speaker 1: area and then transporting elsewhere, or you've got some prefabricated stuff.

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Speaker 1: All these obviously group bold theres as well playing their

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Speaker 1: trade across New Zealand they've got the economy of scale

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Speaker 1: in the productivity that we actually want to get to

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Speaker 1: another ones who are finding it hardest because they're dealing

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Speaker 1: with all the different councils at the moment. So that's

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Speaker 1: probably a cressit case that we've got to get past.

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Speaker 2: I really appreciate you time, mate, look after you. So

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Speaker 2: there's Chris pink Building and Construction Ministry. For more from

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Speaker 2: the Mic Asking Breakfast, listen live to news talks that'd

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