Speaker 1: Kyoda. I'm Chelsea Daniels and This is the Front Page,
Speaker 1: a daily podcast presented by The New Zealand Herald. There
Speaker 1: was an outbreak of the virus formerly known as monkey
Speaker 1: pox back in twenty twenty two, but a new variant
Speaker 1: that originated in the Democratic Republic of Congo has proved fatal,
Speaker 1: with dozens of deaths from thousands of cases. The new
Speaker 1: variant has also been found beyond the borders of Africa,
Speaker 1: sparking warnings by the World Health Organization and calls for
Speaker 1: international support to stem this outbreak. Today on the Front Page,
Speaker 1: University of Auckland Associate professor and co director of the
Speaker 1: Global Vaccine Data Network, doctor Helen Patussus Harris, joins us
Speaker 1: to explain what you need to.
Speaker 2: Know about this new out break.
Speaker 1: Helen, what is ampox, what sort of virus is it
Speaker 1: and what symptoms does it create?
Speaker 2: And generally how does it spread.
Speaker 3: It's a member of a family called orthpox viruses, and
Speaker 3: it's not a new virus at all. It's quite closely
Speaker 3: related to the smallpox virus, which caused havoc for thousands
Speaker 3: of years in our history. It doesn't spread that easily.
Speaker 3: It's not airborne or anything. But it is spread through
Speaker 3: close contact, particularly people who have the lesions. Before those
Speaker 3: have held over, they're infectious and they can be also
Speaker 3: infectious for a little while before they start showing symptoms
Speaker 3: as well.
Speaker 2: What kind of symptoms does it create?
Speaker 3: We, like so many diseases we talk about, it tends
Speaker 3: to start with flu like illness with fever and cherll,
Speaker 3: swollen lymph nodes, feeling really tired, headache, and also potentially
Speaker 3: some congesture. So very much those symptoms you get when
Speaker 3: your immune system starting to respond to something, and then
Speaker 3: there's this rash that's pretty horrible to look at and
Speaker 3: can be extremely painful.
Speaker 1: Am I right to say that this used to be
Speaker 1: called monkey pocks? What led to the name change?
Speaker 3: Well, yeh, I think we appreciate now it's pretty uncool
Speaker 3: to name diseases after people, places, or animals, because that
Speaker 3: can come with a degree of stigma, which is usually
Speaker 3: pretty unwarranted.
Speaker 4: You know.
Speaker 3: An example is, you know, with the outbreak of this
Speaker 3: that happened in twenty twenty two in Brazil, people started
Speaker 3: to kill monkeys because they were concerned that they were
Speaker 3: going to get this pox from monkeys. So there's been
Speaker 3: a move over some years now to move away from
Speaker 3: those sort of names, so hence now it's called MPOs.
Speaker 2: What does this mean for the average person, the.
Speaker 5: Average person, say in New Zealand.
Speaker 3: I mean the first identification of the virus was actually
Speaker 3: teen fifty three in a lab in Denmark that was
Speaker 3: among monkeys, hence the name. But actually the first case
Speaker 3: in humans was noted in nineteen seventy in an infant,
Speaker 3: and from their cases sort of just growing slowly in
Speaker 3: some of the central African countries, including Nigeria. So there's
Speaker 3: a couple of clades, and there's a clade that is
Speaker 3: primarily found in the Congo, which is called Clade one,
Speaker 3: and the one in Nigeria is called clade two, so
Speaker 3: they're slightly different sort of clades. But those cases there
Speaker 3: in Africa have slowly been growing over the decades until
Speaker 3: suddenly some cases started to pop up outside of Africa.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I remember a few years ago there was an
Speaker 1: outbreak of EMPOS that spread largely through the gay community.
Speaker 2: How did that start and is it linked to this
Speaker 2: current outbreak.
Speaker 5: It's not linked to the current outbreak. That one started either.
Speaker 3: Understand somebody from the UK had visited Nigeria and went back,
Speaker 3: and I did understand that there were some festivals or
Speaker 3: something on, so you had this sort of super spreader
Speaker 3: event and the cases sort of spilled out from there,
Speaker 3: which is where we saw that twenty two to twenty
Speaker 3: three outbreak. That was a different clade than the one
Speaker 3: that we've got at the moment. So in twenty twenty
Speaker 3: two it was.
Speaker 5: The clade two. This time it's the clade one, which has.
Speaker 3: Been more dominant in the Democratic Republic of Congo. This one,
Speaker 3: it's developed mutations that have enabled it to better spread
Speaker 3: person to person, so you're seeing it affecting both children
Speaker 3: and adults.
Speaker 6: The World Health Organization has declared empox outbreaks in Congo
Speaker 6: and other African countries a global health emergency. It's from
Speaker 6: same family as smallpox, but the symptoms are a little
Speaker 6: bit less, such as body eggs and fevers as well
Speaker 6: as well. Than five hundred people have died from the
Speaker 6: virus and thousands of people have been infected. This is
Speaker 6: more than one hundred and sixty percent increase of cases
Speaker 6: from the same time last year and nearly a twenty
Speaker 6: percent increase in the number of debts.
Speaker 1: What more can you tell us about this current outbreak,
Speaker 1: in particular the fact the virus is now contributing to
Speaker 1: a higher mortality rate.
Speaker 3: Am I right, Well, here may be it's been quite
Speaker 3: difficult to ascertain the mortality rate because you sort of
Speaker 3: have to know how many cases you've got, and for
Speaker 3: a long time, probably had a lot of cases that
Speaker 3: were going undetected, particularly due to for example, in Nigeria,
Speaker 3: they criminalize same sex activity also expression of trans people.
Speaker 3: The maximum penalty is actually a death sentence. So if
Speaker 3: you presented with this pox and you may be seen
Speaker 3: to be affiliated with these practices, it could be very
Speaker 3: debtrial mental to you, so you can sort of appreciate
Speaker 3: why people might keep quite quiet about it.
Speaker 5: So it's really hard to know.
Speaker 3: And we've seen a lower mortality rate outside of Africa,
Speaker 3: so you've also got different populations, You've probably got different healthcare.
Speaker 5: So I think that's a good question.
Speaker 3: But yes, this one does seem to be more lethal
Speaker 3: than the other one.
Speaker 1: Is connecting mpox with the LGBTQ plus community, Is that
Speaker 1: a bit of a misnomer.
Speaker 3: Yeah, because it's spread through close contacts, so you just
Speaker 3: have to have close contact that can spread in family households,
Speaker 3: you can come into contact with the say the bed linen,
Speaker 3: for example. You don't need to have sex to transmit
Speaker 3: or to become infected with us. So there's a lot
Speaker 3: of ways and a lot of knowledge that we still
Speaker 3: need to unpack to better understand it.
Speaker 1: The World Health Organization has declared this an international public
Speaker 1: health emergency. How does that translate to authorities here?
Speaker 3: It's a move that sort of elevates people's awareness and
Speaker 3: also requires a coordinated international response, puts more of a
Speaker 3: priority on it. For example, the focus on therapeutics and
Speaker 3: vaccines for example, and also for people to collaborate, countries,
Speaker 3: nations to collaborate in sharing their knowledge. So if you
Speaker 3: want to dampen down an outbreak or control it or
Speaker 3: eliminate it, you need to collaborate. Because people just hop
Speaker 3: on planes all the time, and of course the infection,
Speaker 3: that's how it pops up all over the place and
Speaker 3: how it's spread. In twenty twenty two, it's a plane
Speaker 3: rid of way.
Speaker 1: Some health experts say that this is concerning not just
Speaker 1: for Africa but for the world. But the world's likely
Speaker 1: only going to care now that it's a.
Speaker 2: Risk to them.
Speaker 1: I suppose do we need to reevaluate this support given
Speaker 1: to places like Africa, particularly around their health system.
Speaker 5: Absolutely absolutely. I know we're an island, but we're not really.
Speaker 3: It is a global community, and when it comes to
Speaker 3: infectious diseases that I appreciate borders and it is horrible.
Speaker 3: You know when you see oh, now, it's interesting because
Speaker 3: you know it might affect us well. People have been
Speaker 3: warning about these pos viruses as potential emergent diseases for
Speaker 3: quite some time. They were warning about coronaviruses long before
Speaker 3: our current pandemic. These are just an example of pathogens
Speaker 3: that can sort of emerge beyond where they're currently endemic
Speaker 3: to affect the global community.
Speaker 5: So obviously the easiest thing.
Speaker 3: To do would be to deal with the outbreaks at
Speaker 3: the source before they become a problem. But of course
Speaker 3: that hasn't occurred because again, we don't pay so much attention.
Speaker 1: I remember reading a few years ago about how Africa
Speaker 1: had just gotten a handle on a bowler, and when
Speaker 1: that news came out, I remember having conversations with people
Speaker 1: who were shocked that it.
Speaker 2: Was actually still a thing.
Speaker 1: But it was still a problem in Africa, right, And
Speaker 1: they seem to be battling that for decades after the
Speaker 1: rest of the world, and that's one of those examples
Speaker 1: of the rest of us turning away from it.
Speaker 3: I guess, yeah, it's I guess it's human nature, isn't it,
Speaker 3: Because there's so much that goes on in the world
Speaker 3: that it's impossible to pay attention to all of it
Speaker 3: until it comes knocking on your own door. But yeah,
Speaker 3: the Ebola epidemics, I guess the good news is that
Speaker 3: effective vaccines were able to help control those and also
Speaker 3: the improvement in awareness and education for people, because again
Speaker 3: a bola is not the most infectious disease known to man,
Speaker 3: and through good education and fiction control measures and also
Speaker 3: now some effective vaccines, it dampens down that threat. But
Speaker 3: it shouldn't come to that. That was always on the list.
Speaker 3: That's another example of a virus that's been on the
Speaker 3: list for a long time of potential emerging diseases.
Speaker 1: Are we seeing pharmaceutical companies prioritize a vaccine against mpox?
Speaker 1: I remember when there was that outbreak and I think
Speaker 1: you said twenty twenty two in the gay community.
Speaker 2: The vaccines were quite limited, weren't they.
Speaker 3: Well, yes, and no, Actually, lucky for US something prepared
Speaker 3: earlier thanks to smallpox, which was eradicated in nineteen eighty.
Speaker 3: But the small pox vaccine is also protective against empox
Speaker 3: potentially other pox viruses as well. So what had been
Speaker 3: stockpiled for years were doses of the what we'd call
Speaker 3: the second generation small pox vaccine. That's not an ideal vaccine,
Speaker 3: and actually because people hadn't been using it under these
Speaker 3: sorts of conditions, I guess I didn't really know if
Speaker 3: it was actually going to be effective under the circumstances.
Speaker 5: But fortunately, because it's always on the radar small pox,
Speaker 5: and then when we.
Speaker 3: Saw impos appearing more and more in Africa, vaccines were
Speaker 3: considered also as having utility against impos. So the third
Speaker 3: generation vaccine is made by a company in Denmark, and
Speaker 3: there was stocks in twenty twenty two. They had actually
Speaker 3: diverted their manufacturing at the time because you don't actually
Speaker 3: have a very good market other than perhaps a defense
Speaker 3: force or something for these sort of vaccines, so it's
Speaker 3: not exactly a good money spinner. But they've now diverted
Speaker 3: back to focus on this vaccine.
Speaker 4: It'll be about one hundred dollars per dose for these vaccines.
Speaker 5: Will African countries be able to get enough of.
Speaker 4: Them to be able to contain this outbring I don't
Speaker 4: think so. I'm grateful for the Japan government who give
Speaker 4: a donation of three million point five hundred doses of
Speaker 4: these vaccines to DFC, but as we knew, we have
Speaker 4: the limitation of funding, and it's very important that people
Speaker 4: do the best to look for money to fund these vaccinations.
Speaker 3: Some good news is that they very recently announced a
Speaker 3: collaboration with the African CDC to not just provide fifteen
Speaker 3: million doses to these African countries who.
Speaker 5: Have these risks, but also to collaborate.
Speaker 3: With them so that the manufacturing capabilities in Africa are
Speaker 3: enhancement they can make the vaccine themselves, which I think
Speaker 3: is really really important.
Speaker 1: Do you think the world has learned anything from COVID
Speaker 1: and use that information to kind of stop empocks spreading further.
Speaker 3: To say, yes, it's still pretty fresh, but it's actually
Speaker 3: quite amazing at how quickly people forget and these threats
Speaker 3: aren't going to go away. This wasn't you know, COVID
Speaker 3: wasn't the one for the century. There's a whole lot
Speaker 3: of other potential threats there, so we sort of can't
Speaker 3: take the eye off the ball, like, for example, the
Speaker 3: African continent having their own capacity is one really important step, actually,
Speaker 3: and that's something that needs a lot more attention diverted
Speaker 3: to it, I.
Speaker 1: Think, and even the general population as well. I suppose
Speaker 1: we all felt that fatigue after the COVID pandemic, and
Speaker 1: then you saw very quickly people coming to work without
Speaker 1: the face mask on when you've got a little bit
Speaker 1: of a cough, and you can kind of see everything
Speaker 1: going back to normal, so to speak. But we really
Speaker 1: should be adopting some of those measures that we did
Speaker 1: do in COVID in our everyday lives from now on,
Speaker 1: shouldn't we.
Speaker 3: It's always been good practice, and I sort of I
Speaker 3: think most people's nanners would have told them that because
Speaker 3: they knew that washing your hands and all of that
Speaker 3: was good. And I think we had better behavior back then,
Speaker 3: I think than we do now. I think peraps, a
Speaker 3: lot's taken for granted, where we just have this absence
Speaker 3: in our face of disease and very short mentor so.
Speaker 3: I hope the global scientific community have learned a lot
Speaker 3: from COVID, and there's also a lot of infrastructure that
Speaker 3: got put in and that we would hopefully be able
Speaker 3: to leverage off. But of course having the political will
Speaker 3: is probably a different story. You know, if you want
Speaker 3: to need resources, you need to have political commitment and leadership.
Speaker 2: Thanks for joining us, Helen.
Speaker 1: That said, for this episode of the Front Page, you
Speaker 1: can read more about today's stories and extensive news coverage
Speaker 1: at NZED herold dot co dot z. The Front Page
Speaker 1: is produced by Ethan Sells with sound engineer Patty Fox.
Speaker 2: I'm Chelsea Daniels.
Speaker 1: Subscribe to the Front Page on iHeartRadio or wherever you
Speaker 1: get your podcasts, and tune in tomorrow for another look
Speaker 1: behind the headlines.