1 00:00:05,559 --> 00:00:08,560 Speaker 1: Kyoda. I'm Chelsea Daniels and This is the Front Page, 2 00:00:09,000 --> 00:00:17,600 Speaker 1: a daily podcast presented by The New Zealand Herald. There 3 00:00:17,640 --> 00:00:20,520 Speaker 1: was an outbreak of the virus formerly known as monkey 4 00:00:20,560 --> 00:00:23,920 Speaker 1: pox back in twenty twenty two, but a new variant 5 00:00:24,079 --> 00:00:28,520 Speaker 1: that originated in the Democratic Republic of Congo has proved fatal, 6 00:00:28,920 --> 00:00:34,159 Speaker 1: with dozens of deaths from thousands of cases. The new 7 00:00:34,240 --> 00:00:38,160 Speaker 1: variant has also been found beyond the borders of Africa, 8 00:00:38,560 --> 00:00:42,280 Speaker 1: sparking warnings by the World Health Organization and calls for 9 00:00:42,360 --> 00:00:47,920 Speaker 1: international support to stem this outbreak. Today on the Front Page, 10 00:00:48,120 --> 00:00:52,000 Speaker 1: University of Auckland Associate professor and co director of the 11 00:00:52,000 --> 00:00:56,480 Speaker 1: Global Vaccine Data Network, doctor Helen Patussus Harris, joins us 12 00:00:56,800 --> 00:00:58,440 Speaker 1: to explain what you need to. 13 00:00:58,440 --> 00:01:00,320 Speaker 2: Know about this new out break. 14 00:01:04,440 --> 00:01:07,960 Speaker 1: Helen, what is ampox, what sort of virus is it 15 00:01:08,000 --> 00:01:09,640 Speaker 1: and what symptoms does it create? 16 00:01:09,680 --> 00:01:11,480 Speaker 2: And generally how does it spread. 17 00:01:11,800 --> 00:01:15,880 Speaker 3: It's a member of a family called orthpox viruses, and 18 00:01:16,200 --> 00:01:19,120 Speaker 3: it's not a new virus at all. It's quite closely 19 00:01:19,160 --> 00:01:25,240 Speaker 3: related to the smallpox virus, which caused havoc for thousands 20 00:01:25,240 --> 00:01:29,160 Speaker 3: of years in our history. It doesn't spread that easily. 21 00:01:29,240 --> 00:01:32,760 Speaker 3: It's not airborne or anything. But it is spread through 22 00:01:32,800 --> 00:01:37,679 Speaker 3: close contact, particularly people who have the lesions. Before those 23 00:01:37,720 --> 00:01:40,240 Speaker 3: have held over, they're infectious and they can be also 24 00:01:40,280 --> 00:01:43,759 Speaker 3: infectious for a little while before they start showing symptoms 25 00:01:43,800 --> 00:01:44,319 Speaker 3: as well. 26 00:01:44,600 --> 00:01:46,440 Speaker 2: What kind of symptoms does it create? 27 00:01:46,800 --> 00:01:49,800 Speaker 3: We, like so many diseases we talk about, it tends 28 00:01:49,840 --> 00:01:53,280 Speaker 3: to start with flu like illness with fever and cherll, 29 00:01:53,360 --> 00:01:59,000 Speaker 3: swollen lymph nodes, feeling really tired, headache, and also potentially 30 00:01:59,040 --> 00:02:02,760 Speaker 3: some congesture. So very much those symptoms you get when 31 00:02:02,800 --> 00:02:06,640 Speaker 3: your immune system starting to respond to something, and then 32 00:02:06,880 --> 00:02:09,920 Speaker 3: there's this rash that's pretty horrible to look at and 33 00:02:09,960 --> 00:02:11,880 Speaker 3: can be extremely painful. 34 00:02:12,480 --> 00:02:14,560 Speaker 1: Am I right to say that this used to be 35 00:02:14,639 --> 00:02:17,639 Speaker 1: called monkey pocks? What led to the name change? 36 00:02:18,120 --> 00:02:21,079 Speaker 3: Well, yeh, I think we appreciate now it's pretty uncool 37 00:02:21,480 --> 00:02:27,320 Speaker 3: to name diseases after people, places, or animals, because that 38 00:02:27,360 --> 00:02:30,320 Speaker 3: can come with a degree of stigma, which is usually 39 00:02:30,320 --> 00:02:31,480 Speaker 3: pretty unwarranted. 40 00:02:32,000 --> 00:02:32,200 Speaker 4: You know. 41 00:02:32,200 --> 00:02:35,040 Speaker 3: An example is, you know, with the outbreak of this 42 00:02:35,200 --> 00:02:38,400 Speaker 3: that happened in twenty twenty two in Brazil, people started 43 00:02:38,400 --> 00:02:40,960 Speaker 3: to kill monkeys because they were concerned that they were 44 00:02:40,960 --> 00:02:44,519 Speaker 3: going to get this pox from monkeys. So there's been 45 00:02:44,520 --> 00:02:47,000 Speaker 3: a move over some years now to move away from 46 00:02:47,040 --> 00:02:51,200 Speaker 3: those sort of names, so hence now it's called MPOs. 47 00:02:51,680 --> 00:02:54,480 Speaker 2: What does this mean for the average person, the. 48 00:02:54,440 --> 00:02:56,600 Speaker 5: Average person, say in New Zealand. 49 00:02:56,720 --> 00:02:59,480 Speaker 3: I mean the first identification of the virus was actually 50 00:03:00,000 --> 00:03:03,720 Speaker 3: teen fifty three in a lab in Denmark that was 51 00:03:03,760 --> 00:03:06,600 Speaker 3: among monkeys, hence the name. But actually the first case 52 00:03:06,639 --> 00:03:12,520 Speaker 3: in humans was noted in nineteen seventy in an infant, 53 00:03:12,800 --> 00:03:17,200 Speaker 3: and from their cases sort of just growing slowly in 54 00:03:17,280 --> 00:03:21,880 Speaker 3: some of the central African countries, including Nigeria. So there's 55 00:03:21,919 --> 00:03:24,680 Speaker 3: a couple of clades, and there's a clade that is 56 00:03:25,000 --> 00:03:28,440 Speaker 3: primarily found in the Congo, which is called Clade one, 57 00:03:28,840 --> 00:03:32,000 Speaker 3: and the one in Nigeria is called clade two, so 58 00:03:32,080 --> 00:03:35,720 Speaker 3: they're slightly different sort of clades. But those cases there 59 00:03:35,720 --> 00:03:39,320 Speaker 3: in Africa have slowly been growing over the decades until 60 00:03:39,760 --> 00:03:44,440 Speaker 3: suddenly some cases started to pop up outside of Africa. 61 00:03:44,560 --> 00:03:46,520 Speaker 1: Yeah, I remember a few years ago there was an 62 00:03:46,560 --> 00:03:50,080 Speaker 1: outbreak of EMPOS that spread largely through the gay community. 63 00:03:50,360 --> 00:03:52,440 Speaker 2: How did that start and is it linked to this 64 00:03:52,600 --> 00:03:53,920 Speaker 2: current outbreak. 65 00:03:54,120 --> 00:03:57,000 Speaker 5: It's not linked to the current outbreak. That one started either. 66 00:03:57,160 --> 00:04:03,240 Speaker 3: Understand somebody from the UK had visited Nigeria and went back, 67 00:04:03,640 --> 00:04:07,240 Speaker 3: and I did understand that there were some festivals or 68 00:04:07,240 --> 00:04:10,720 Speaker 3: something on, so you had this sort of super spreader 69 00:04:10,760 --> 00:04:13,839 Speaker 3: event and the cases sort of spilled out from there, 70 00:04:14,360 --> 00:04:16,559 Speaker 3: which is where we saw that twenty two to twenty 71 00:04:16,560 --> 00:04:20,040 Speaker 3: three outbreak. That was a different clade than the one 72 00:04:20,040 --> 00:04:23,480 Speaker 3: that we've got at the moment. So in twenty twenty 73 00:04:23,480 --> 00:04:24,280 Speaker 3: two it was. 74 00:04:24,240 --> 00:04:28,640 Speaker 5: The clade two. This time it's the clade one, which has. 75 00:04:28,560 --> 00:04:34,279 Speaker 3: Been more dominant in the Democratic Republic of Congo. This one, 76 00:04:34,440 --> 00:04:38,960 Speaker 3: it's developed mutations that have enabled it to better spread 77 00:04:39,040 --> 00:04:41,880 Speaker 3: person to person, so you're seeing it affecting both children 78 00:04:41,960 --> 00:04:42,719 Speaker 3: and adults. 79 00:04:45,839 --> 00:04:49,400 Speaker 6: The World Health Organization has declared empox outbreaks in Congo 80 00:04:49,480 --> 00:04:53,360 Speaker 6: and other African countries a global health emergency. It's from 81 00:04:53,720 --> 00:04:56,520 Speaker 6: same family as smallpox, but the symptoms are a little 82 00:04:56,520 --> 00:04:59,560 Speaker 6: bit less, such as body eggs and fevers as well 83 00:04:59,640 --> 00:05:02,960 Speaker 6: as well. Than five hundred people have died from the 84 00:05:03,000 --> 00:05:05,920 Speaker 6: virus and thousands of people have been infected. This is 85 00:05:05,960 --> 00:05:08,480 Speaker 6: more than one hundred and sixty percent increase of cases 86 00:05:08,480 --> 00:05:11,080 Speaker 6: from the same time last year and nearly a twenty 87 00:05:11,120 --> 00:05:14,200 Speaker 6: percent increase in the number of debts. 88 00:05:16,040 --> 00:05:18,320 Speaker 1: What more can you tell us about this current outbreak, 89 00:05:18,360 --> 00:05:21,080 Speaker 1: in particular the fact the virus is now contributing to 90 00:05:21,279 --> 00:05:22,560 Speaker 1: a higher mortality rate. 91 00:05:22,600 --> 00:05:25,359 Speaker 3: Am I right, Well, here may be it's been quite 92 00:05:25,360 --> 00:05:30,160 Speaker 3: difficult to ascertain the mortality rate because you sort of 93 00:05:30,200 --> 00:05:33,840 Speaker 3: have to know how many cases you've got, and for 94 00:05:33,880 --> 00:05:37,240 Speaker 3: a long time, probably had a lot of cases that 95 00:05:37,279 --> 00:05:42,720 Speaker 3: were going undetected, particularly due to for example, in Nigeria, 96 00:05:43,120 --> 00:05:47,640 Speaker 3: they criminalize same sex activity also expression of trans people. 97 00:05:47,880 --> 00:05:51,680 Speaker 3: The maximum penalty is actually a death sentence. So if 98 00:05:51,760 --> 00:05:56,279 Speaker 3: you presented with this pox and you may be seen 99 00:05:56,320 --> 00:05:59,599 Speaker 3: to be affiliated with these practices, it could be very 100 00:05:59,640 --> 00:06:02,080 Speaker 3: debtrial mental to you, so you can sort of appreciate 101 00:06:02,200 --> 00:06:04,880 Speaker 3: why people might keep quite quiet about it. 102 00:06:05,200 --> 00:06:06,440 Speaker 5: So it's really hard to know. 103 00:06:07,360 --> 00:06:11,320 Speaker 3: And we've seen a lower mortality rate outside of Africa, 104 00:06:11,440 --> 00:06:14,799 Speaker 3: so you've also got different populations, You've probably got different healthcare. 105 00:06:15,120 --> 00:06:16,279 Speaker 5: So I think that's a good question. 106 00:06:16,360 --> 00:06:19,240 Speaker 3: But yes, this one does seem to be more lethal 107 00:06:19,400 --> 00:06:20,159 Speaker 3: than the other one. 108 00:06:20,920 --> 00:06:25,640 Speaker 1: Is connecting mpox with the LGBTQ plus community, Is that 109 00:06:25,720 --> 00:06:26,800 Speaker 1: a bit of a misnomer. 110 00:06:27,160 --> 00:06:30,240 Speaker 3: Yeah, because it's spread through close contacts, so you just 111 00:06:30,240 --> 00:06:33,280 Speaker 3: have to have close contact that can spread in family households, 112 00:06:33,680 --> 00:06:36,800 Speaker 3: you can come into contact with the say the bed linen, 113 00:06:37,320 --> 00:06:41,320 Speaker 3: for example. You don't need to have sex to transmit 114 00:06:41,720 --> 00:06:44,520 Speaker 3: or to become infected with us. So there's a lot 115 00:06:44,560 --> 00:06:47,520 Speaker 3: of ways and a lot of knowledge that we still 116 00:06:47,560 --> 00:06:49,520 Speaker 3: need to unpack to better understand it. 117 00:06:49,760 --> 00:06:53,679 Speaker 1: The World Health Organization has declared this an international public 118 00:06:53,800 --> 00:06:58,159 Speaker 1: health emergency. How does that translate to authorities here? 119 00:06:58,560 --> 00:07:01,839 Speaker 3: It's a move that sort of elevates people's awareness and 120 00:07:01,920 --> 00:07:07,680 Speaker 3: also requires a coordinated international response, puts more of a 121 00:07:07,720 --> 00:07:11,840 Speaker 3: priority on it. For example, the focus on therapeutics and 122 00:07:11,920 --> 00:07:15,720 Speaker 3: vaccines for example, and also for people to collaborate, countries, 123 00:07:16,240 --> 00:07:20,720 Speaker 3: nations to collaborate in sharing their knowledge. So if you 124 00:07:20,840 --> 00:07:25,000 Speaker 3: want to dampen down an outbreak or control it or 125 00:07:25,040 --> 00:07:28,960 Speaker 3: eliminate it, you need to collaborate. Because people just hop 126 00:07:29,000 --> 00:07:32,840 Speaker 3: on planes all the time, and of course the infection, 127 00:07:33,320 --> 00:07:35,200 Speaker 3: that's how it pops up all over the place and 128 00:07:35,200 --> 00:07:38,040 Speaker 3: how it's spread. In twenty twenty two, it's a plane 129 00:07:38,080 --> 00:07:48,160 Speaker 3: rid of way. 130 00:07:49,440 --> 00:07:52,440 Speaker 1: Some health experts say that this is concerning not just 131 00:07:52,480 --> 00:07:54,960 Speaker 1: for Africa but for the world. But the world's likely 132 00:07:55,000 --> 00:07:56,640 Speaker 1: only going to care now that it's a. 133 00:07:56,680 --> 00:07:57,560 Speaker 2: Risk to them. 134 00:07:57,600 --> 00:08:00,960 Speaker 1: I suppose do we need to reevaluate this support given 135 00:08:01,000 --> 00:08:04,239 Speaker 1: to places like Africa, particularly around their health system. 136 00:08:04,800 --> 00:08:08,160 Speaker 5: Absolutely absolutely. I know we're an island, but we're not really. 137 00:08:09,440 --> 00:08:11,320 Speaker 3: It is a global community, and when it comes to 138 00:08:11,320 --> 00:08:14,880 Speaker 3: infectious diseases that I appreciate borders and it is horrible. 139 00:08:15,040 --> 00:08:17,360 Speaker 3: You know when you see oh, now, it's interesting because 140 00:08:17,680 --> 00:08:19,560 Speaker 3: you know it might affect us well. People have been 141 00:08:19,640 --> 00:08:24,680 Speaker 3: warning about these pos viruses as potential emergent diseases for 142 00:08:24,760 --> 00:08:29,600 Speaker 3: quite some time. They were warning about coronaviruses long before 143 00:08:30,200 --> 00:08:34,240 Speaker 3: our current pandemic. These are just an example of pathogens 144 00:08:34,280 --> 00:08:37,680 Speaker 3: that can sort of emerge beyond where they're currently endemic 145 00:08:37,760 --> 00:08:39,800 Speaker 3: to affect the global community. 146 00:08:40,320 --> 00:08:42,840 Speaker 5: So obviously the easiest thing. 147 00:08:42,720 --> 00:08:45,040 Speaker 3: To do would be to deal with the outbreaks at 148 00:08:45,080 --> 00:08:48,319 Speaker 3: the source before they become a problem. But of course 149 00:08:48,440 --> 00:08:51,360 Speaker 3: that hasn't occurred because again, we don't pay so much attention. 150 00:08:52,360 --> 00:08:54,840 Speaker 1: I remember reading a few years ago about how Africa 151 00:08:54,920 --> 00:08:57,440 Speaker 1: had just gotten a handle on a bowler, and when 152 00:08:57,440 --> 00:09:00,560 Speaker 1: that news came out, I remember having conversations with people 153 00:09:00,600 --> 00:09:01,760 Speaker 1: who were shocked that it. 154 00:09:01,760 --> 00:09:03,240 Speaker 2: Was actually still a thing. 155 00:09:03,760 --> 00:09:06,080 Speaker 1: But it was still a problem in Africa, right, And 156 00:09:06,120 --> 00:09:08,400 Speaker 1: they seem to be battling that for decades after the 157 00:09:08,440 --> 00:09:11,240 Speaker 1: rest of the world, and that's one of those examples 158 00:09:11,559 --> 00:09:13,840 Speaker 1: of the rest of us turning away from it. 159 00:09:13,880 --> 00:09:16,880 Speaker 3: I guess, yeah, it's I guess it's human nature, isn't it, 160 00:09:16,960 --> 00:09:19,199 Speaker 3: Because there's so much that goes on in the world 161 00:09:19,240 --> 00:09:21,720 Speaker 3: that it's impossible to pay attention to all of it 162 00:09:22,559 --> 00:09:25,560 Speaker 3: until it comes knocking on your own door. But yeah, 163 00:09:25,559 --> 00:09:29,559 Speaker 3: the Ebola epidemics, I guess the good news is that 164 00:09:29,679 --> 00:09:34,880 Speaker 3: effective vaccines were able to help control those and also 165 00:09:35,400 --> 00:09:40,679 Speaker 3: the improvement in awareness and education for people, because again 166 00:09:41,000 --> 00:09:44,360 Speaker 3: a bola is not the most infectious disease known to man, 167 00:09:44,840 --> 00:09:49,040 Speaker 3: and through good education and fiction control measures and also 168 00:09:49,200 --> 00:09:53,160 Speaker 3: now some effective vaccines, it dampens down that threat. But 169 00:09:53,480 --> 00:09:56,120 Speaker 3: it shouldn't come to that. That was always on the list. 170 00:09:56,320 --> 00:09:59,280 Speaker 3: That's another example of a virus that's been on the 171 00:09:59,280 --> 00:10:03,520 Speaker 3: list for a long time of potential emerging diseases. 172 00:10:03,880 --> 00:10:08,760 Speaker 1: Are we seeing pharmaceutical companies prioritize a vaccine against mpox? 173 00:10:08,800 --> 00:10:11,040 Speaker 1: I remember when there was that outbreak and I think 174 00:10:11,040 --> 00:10:13,839 Speaker 1: you said twenty twenty two in the gay community. 175 00:10:13,960 --> 00:10:16,800 Speaker 2: The vaccines were quite limited, weren't they. 176 00:10:16,960 --> 00:10:21,079 Speaker 3: Well, yes, and no, Actually, lucky for US something prepared 177 00:10:21,120 --> 00:10:27,440 Speaker 3: earlier thanks to smallpox, which was eradicated in nineteen eighty. 178 00:10:27,840 --> 00:10:32,800 Speaker 3: But the small pox vaccine is also protective against empox 179 00:10:33,280 --> 00:10:38,080 Speaker 3: potentially other pox viruses as well. So what had been 180 00:10:38,120 --> 00:10:42,840 Speaker 3: stockpiled for years were doses of the what we'd call 181 00:10:42,920 --> 00:10:47,720 Speaker 3: the second generation small pox vaccine. That's not an ideal vaccine, 182 00:10:47,720 --> 00:10:50,600 Speaker 3: and actually because people hadn't been using it under these 183 00:10:50,640 --> 00:10:53,200 Speaker 3: sorts of conditions, I guess I didn't really know if 184 00:10:53,240 --> 00:10:56,320 Speaker 3: it was actually going to be effective under the circumstances. 185 00:10:56,880 --> 00:11:01,760 Speaker 5: But fortunately, because it's always on the radar small pox, 186 00:11:01,760 --> 00:11:02,400 Speaker 5: and then when we. 187 00:11:02,480 --> 00:11:07,679 Speaker 3: Saw impos appearing more and more in Africa, vaccines were 188 00:11:08,040 --> 00:11:12,560 Speaker 3: considered also as having utility against impos. So the third 189 00:11:12,600 --> 00:11:18,240 Speaker 3: generation vaccine is made by a company in Denmark, and 190 00:11:18,760 --> 00:11:22,200 Speaker 3: there was stocks in twenty twenty two. They had actually 191 00:11:22,240 --> 00:11:27,040 Speaker 3: diverted their manufacturing at the time because you don't actually 192 00:11:27,080 --> 00:11:29,880 Speaker 3: have a very good market other than perhaps a defense 193 00:11:29,920 --> 00:11:33,120 Speaker 3: force or something for these sort of vaccines, so it's 194 00:11:33,120 --> 00:11:38,400 Speaker 3: not exactly a good money spinner. But they've now diverted 195 00:11:38,480 --> 00:11:41,000 Speaker 3: back to focus on this vaccine. 196 00:11:41,480 --> 00:11:45,119 Speaker 4: It'll be about one hundred dollars per dose for these vaccines. 197 00:11:45,160 --> 00:11:47,280 Speaker 5: Will African countries be able to get enough of. 198 00:11:47,240 --> 00:11:49,720 Speaker 4: Them to be able to contain this outbring I don't 199 00:11:49,760 --> 00:11:53,880 Speaker 4: think so. I'm grateful for the Japan government who give 200 00:11:53,960 --> 00:11:57,559 Speaker 4: a donation of three million point five hundred doses of 201 00:11:57,600 --> 00:12:01,400 Speaker 4: these vaccines to DFC, but as we knew, we have 202 00:12:01,440 --> 00:12:05,120 Speaker 4: the limitation of funding, and it's very important that people 203 00:12:05,360 --> 00:12:09,320 Speaker 4: do the best to look for money to fund these vaccinations. 204 00:12:10,320 --> 00:12:13,719 Speaker 3: Some good news is that they very recently announced a 205 00:12:13,760 --> 00:12:20,160 Speaker 3: collaboration with the African CDC to not just provide fifteen 206 00:12:20,200 --> 00:12:24,240 Speaker 3: million doses to these African countries who. 207 00:12:24,080 --> 00:12:27,719 Speaker 5: Have these risks, but also to collaborate. 208 00:12:27,240 --> 00:12:31,559 Speaker 3: With them so that the manufacturing capabilities in Africa are 209 00:12:31,679 --> 00:12:34,240 Speaker 3: enhancement they can make the vaccine themselves, which I think 210 00:12:34,320 --> 00:12:36,040 Speaker 3: is really really important. 211 00:12:36,280 --> 00:12:40,000 Speaker 1: Do you think the world has learned anything from COVID 212 00:12:40,240 --> 00:12:44,960 Speaker 1: and use that information to kind of stop empocks spreading further. 213 00:12:45,400 --> 00:12:48,600 Speaker 3: To say, yes, it's still pretty fresh, but it's actually 214 00:12:48,760 --> 00:12:53,320 Speaker 3: quite amazing at how quickly people forget and these threats 215 00:12:53,320 --> 00:12:56,679 Speaker 3: aren't going to go away. This wasn't you know, COVID 216 00:12:56,760 --> 00:12:59,320 Speaker 3: wasn't the one for the century. There's a whole lot 217 00:12:59,440 --> 00:13:03,800 Speaker 3: of other potential threats there, so we sort of can't 218 00:13:03,960 --> 00:13:07,000 Speaker 3: take the eye off the ball, like, for example, the 219 00:13:07,040 --> 00:13:12,960 Speaker 3: African continent having their own capacity is one really important step, actually, 220 00:13:13,000 --> 00:13:15,760 Speaker 3: and that's something that needs a lot more attention diverted 221 00:13:15,760 --> 00:13:16,240 Speaker 3: to it, I. 222 00:13:16,200 --> 00:13:19,600 Speaker 1: Think, and even the general population as well. I suppose 223 00:13:19,679 --> 00:13:22,480 Speaker 1: we all felt that fatigue after the COVID pandemic, and 224 00:13:22,520 --> 00:13:25,800 Speaker 1: then you saw very quickly people coming to work without 225 00:13:25,800 --> 00:13:27,560 Speaker 1: the face mask on when you've got a little bit 226 00:13:27,559 --> 00:13:30,080 Speaker 1: of a cough, and you can kind of see everything 227 00:13:30,120 --> 00:13:32,200 Speaker 1: going back to normal, so to speak. But we really 228 00:13:32,200 --> 00:13:35,680 Speaker 1: should be adopting some of those measures that we did 229 00:13:35,720 --> 00:13:38,520 Speaker 1: do in COVID in our everyday lives from now on, 230 00:13:38,600 --> 00:13:39,120 Speaker 1: shouldn't we. 231 00:13:39,200 --> 00:13:41,160 Speaker 3: It's always been good practice, and I sort of I 232 00:13:41,240 --> 00:13:44,040 Speaker 3: think most people's nanners would have told them that because 233 00:13:44,760 --> 00:13:47,800 Speaker 3: they knew that washing your hands and all of that 234 00:13:48,040 --> 00:13:50,600 Speaker 3: was good. And I think we had better behavior back then, 235 00:13:50,920 --> 00:13:53,360 Speaker 3: I think than we do now. I think peraps, a 236 00:13:53,360 --> 00:13:56,920 Speaker 3: lot's taken for granted, where we just have this absence 237 00:13:57,120 --> 00:14:00,720 Speaker 3: in our face of disease and very short mentor so. 238 00:14:01,000 --> 00:14:05,520 Speaker 3: I hope the global scientific community have learned a lot 239 00:14:05,600 --> 00:14:08,200 Speaker 3: from COVID, and there's also a lot of infrastructure that 240 00:14:08,280 --> 00:14:10,960 Speaker 3: got put in and that we would hopefully be able 241 00:14:11,000 --> 00:14:15,880 Speaker 3: to leverage off. But of course having the political will 242 00:14:16,080 --> 00:14:19,840 Speaker 3: is probably a different story. You know, if you want 243 00:14:19,840 --> 00:14:23,520 Speaker 3: to need resources, you need to have political commitment and leadership. 244 00:14:23,640 --> 00:14:24,800 Speaker 2: Thanks for joining us, Helen. 245 00:14:30,320 --> 00:14:33,160 Speaker 1: That said, for this episode of the Front Page, you 246 00:14:33,160 --> 00:14:36,640 Speaker 1: can read more about today's stories and extensive news coverage 247 00:14:36,680 --> 00:14:40,320 Speaker 1: at NZED herold dot co dot z. The Front Page 248 00:14:40,360 --> 00:14:43,880 Speaker 1: is produced by Ethan Sells with sound engineer Patty Fox. 249 00:14:44,280 --> 00:14:45,680 Speaker 2: I'm Chelsea Daniels. 250 00:14:46,200 --> 00:14:49,200 Speaker 1: Subscribe to the Front Page on iHeartRadio or wherever you 251 00:14:49,200 --> 00:14:52,600 Speaker 1: get your podcasts, and tune in tomorrow for another look 252 00:14:52,680 --> 00:14:53,880 Speaker 1: behind the headlines.