WEBVTT - All Blacks' record loss to South Africa sparks questions over future 0:00:05.440 --> 0:00:05.840 Kyota. 0:00:05.880 --> 0:00:09.079 I'm Chelsea Daniels and this is the Front Page, a 0:00:09.200 --> 0:00:16.400 daily podcast presented by The New Zealand Herald. The All 0:00:16.440 --> 0:00:20.480 Blacks have taken a giant step backwards in a forty 0:00:20.600 --> 0:00:23.920 three to ten crushing at the hands of South Africa 0:00:24.000 --> 0:00:29.040 in Wellington. It's their worst ever defeat, shipping six tries 0:00:29.080 --> 0:00:33.080 to one after leading ten to seven at halftime. The 0:00:33.120 --> 0:00:37.000 performance has prompted questions about the team's ability to recover 0:00:37.200 --> 0:00:42.319 and deliver consistent, high quality showings. So what does this 0:00:42.520 --> 0:00:46.919 record breaking display mean for the future of the All Blacks. 0:00:47.360 --> 0:00:50.880 Today on the Front Page, former All Black turned commentator 0:00:50.960 --> 0:00:54.600 and Strawn is with us to discuss the weekend, the 0:00:54.640 --> 0:01:03.240 consequences and the future of our team. First off, Strawnie, 0:01:03.240 --> 0:01:07.720 tell me about this record loss in Wellington, what do 0:01:07.760 --> 0:01:08.280 you make of it? 0:01:08.560 --> 0:01:12.080 Well, it was disappointing, I guess as a New Zealander overall. 0:01:12.120 --> 0:01:13.800 But I think one of the key things, and I 0:01:13.840 --> 0:01:16.200 haven't heard it too much in the last forty eight hours, 0:01:16.319 --> 0:01:18.880 is that there are now six nations in the top 0:01:18.959 --> 0:01:22.760 tier in world rugby who are actually really close now 0:01:23.319 --> 0:01:26.280 and historically the All Blacks have been cut above the rest. 0:01:26.840 --> 0:01:29.520 So our percentages. Winning percentages are very high. 0:01:30.040 --> 0:01:32.760 But now you'll see in the last two or three 0:01:32.880 --> 0:01:35.640 years that if a team is a bit off in 0:01:35.720 --> 0:01:38.119 one or two or a number of areas of the game, 0:01:38.959 --> 0:01:40.959 they can be beaten by any team. And of course 0:01:40.959 --> 0:01:45.040 the home and away advantage is consistent too, So that's 0:01:45.040 --> 0:01:48.280 probably the biggest thing. I mean, we need to acknowledge that, 0:01:48.920 --> 0:01:51.960 not accept it, because we have very high standards for 0:01:52.040 --> 0:01:53.960 our all Black team. But you know, I think it's 0:01:54.000 --> 0:01:57.640 important that we do talk and acknowledge that fact. You know, 0:01:57.720 --> 0:02:00.600 the world rugby particular, those big nations have caught. 0:02:00.480 --> 0:02:00.920 Up with us. 0:02:01.080 --> 0:02:05.200 And so because those other nations have gotten better and 0:02:05.280 --> 0:02:09.280 we started up here, right, why haven't we gotten better 0:02:09.680 --> 0:02:10.720 as the years go on. 0:02:11.680 --> 0:02:14.040 Well, you know people will say, well, have we stagnated? 0:02:14.040 --> 0:02:15.840 And I don't think so. I mean, we've got some 0:02:15.880 --> 0:02:19.160 wonderful domestic competitions in New Zealand now Super Rugby competition 0:02:19.360 --> 0:02:22.000 is right up there in terms of you know, weekly 0:02:22.639 --> 0:02:24.959 opportunity for our players to develop. And then of course 0:02:25.000 --> 0:02:28.400 that last stepping stones into international there's probably two or 0:02:28.480 --> 0:02:31.680 three areas where we probably haven't kept pace with those 0:02:31.720 --> 0:02:34.920 top teams, and it's the physical nature, not only the 0:02:34.960 --> 0:02:38.959 physiological piece, but just the size of these men we 0:02:39.040 --> 0:02:42.320 are playing against. And you know, New Zealanders aren't small, 0:02:42.880 --> 0:02:45.760 and obviously it's a multi racial society. We have you know, 0:02:45.919 --> 0:02:48.640 players them all around the world that live in now reside. 0:02:48.400 --> 0:02:49.000 In New Zealand. 0:02:49.680 --> 0:02:51.720 But we just manned for man Now, we just don't 0:02:51.760 --> 0:02:55.720 seem to match up physically. So that's something that I 0:02:55.760 --> 0:02:59.280 guess can be addressed in a gymnasium. It might be 0:02:59.280 --> 0:03:00.959 to do with nutrition, and it could be a whole 0:03:01.040 --> 0:03:04.480 raft of factors. But they are big men. When you 0:03:04.520 --> 0:03:06.960 look at a French team, a South African team, an 0:03:07.000 --> 0:03:08.520 English team, now. 0:03:09.360 --> 0:03:12.560 You know we are no longer towering over them. We 0:03:12.680 --> 0:03:15.160 are in fact often smaller. 0:03:15.720 --> 0:03:19.000 So over an eighty minute period, that physical confrontation will 0:03:19.000 --> 0:03:22.799 take its toll, particularly if your players are slightly smaller, 0:03:23.040 --> 0:03:25.520 you know. So I'd say that's the biggest thing. And 0:03:25.560 --> 0:03:29.120 also now the analytical part of the game. It's so 0:03:29.280 --> 0:03:33.040 easy to access how other teams are playing, and I 0:03:33.120 --> 0:03:36.880 know there are teams and screeds of people who take 0:03:36.920 --> 0:03:39.480 a deep dive into their opposition that they're about to 0:03:39.480 --> 0:03:43.720 play in the coming weekend. So that also means that 0:03:43.840 --> 0:03:47.000 teams are way better prepared to potentially expose some of 0:03:47.040 --> 0:03:51.040 your weaknesses or perceived weaknesses, and you know, the All 0:03:51.040 --> 0:03:54.360 Black team are always heavily scrutinized in that space. So 0:03:54.960 --> 0:03:56.920 they're probably the two biggest ones for Mike. 0:03:58.480 --> 0:04:02.480 In terms of weakness. Is what did the All Blacks 0:04:02.520 --> 0:04:05.280 show the weekend? What were our biggest weaknesses? 0:04:05.760 --> 0:04:06.560 It's a good question. 0:04:06.840 --> 0:04:09.280 I sort of joddled down a few things, but I 0:04:09.280 --> 0:04:11.920 think we still have some positional issues. So when you 0:04:11.960 --> 0:04:13.800 look at a squad and this is a developing squad 0:04:13.800 --> 0:04:16.200 as they head towards the twenty twenty seven World Cup, 0:04:17.040 --> 0:04:20.039 across the board, you know we are still trying and 0:04:20.120 --> 0:04:24.200 developing our style that fits a certain profile of athlete, 0:04:24.279 --> 0:04:27.240 and I think on the weekend we all saw that 0:04:27.360 --> 0:04:30.320 at set piece, So at scrum time we really started 0:04:30.320 --> 0:04:32.000 to struggle, particularly in the second half. 0:04:32.640 --> 0:04:34.000 And the greatest irony here is. 0:04:34.000 --> 0:04:36.880 That we have a tight head prop to Mighty Williams, 0:04:36.880 --> 0:04:41.880 who's tall one hundred and forty kilos, but he almost 0:04:42.080 --> 0:04:44.760 sits behind now the two or three South African props 0:04:44.760 --> 0:04:47.440 that they roll off their bench because he's no longer 0:04:47.520 --> 0:04:51.359 the biggest guy and he's got maybe some technical and 0:04:51.360 --> 0:04:55.160 tactical deficiencies in his game too. So at scrum time 0:04:55.400 --> 0:04:58.800 we struggle and as you probably know, set piece is 0:04:58.839 --> 0:05:00.760 where you start a lot of your back from so 0:05:01.320 --> 0:05:03.520 and also line out time they started to pick us 0:05:03.560 --> 0:05:07.159 off as well, so you're almost cutting off a source 0:05:07.760 --> 0:05:11.120 of ball and the ability to attack at scrum and 0:05:11.160 --> 0:05:11.560 line out. 0:05:11.640 --> 0:05:14.160 They really did hit us hard there. 0:05:14.480 --> 0:05:17.800 Then you could go through the team in terms of players, 0:05:18.160 --> 0:05:21.680 I mean, without being too critical, I think Scott Barrett 0:05:21.920 --> 0:05:24.479 still is deserving of an All Black jersey, but I 0:05:24.560 --> 0:05:27.039 just wonder whether if you take the captaincy away from him, 0:05:27.440 --> 0:05:28.720 whether he'll actually. 0:05:28.440 --> 0:05:31.240 Be able to just focus on his positional role do 0:05:31.360 --> 0:05:31.800 his job. 0:05:31.839 --> 0:05:34.720 He's a big boy, he's good arealy, he's good at 0:05:34.720 --> 0:05:37.960 moving bodies both sides of the ball, attack, defense, but 0:05:38.040 --> 0:05:41.480 he seems to be way down with the captaincy. And 0:05:41.520 --> 0:05:44.080 we all know how good Ardie Savi. I mean, he's 0:05:44.120 --> 0:05:46.520 a wonderful player anyway, world class, but he grows another 0:05:46.640 --> 0:05:49.479 leg when they give him the captaincy. So maybe a 0:05:49.560 --> 0:05:53.880 shift back to that particular scenario, and then you know, 0:05:53.920 --> 0:05:56.960 you have a number of players that are still pretty 0:05:57.000 --> 0:05:59.480 young in terms of their test match experience as Simon 0:06:00.160 --> 0:06:01.920 has been really good, but he's only played three or 0:06:01.920 --> 0:06:05.080 full Test matches while a Cetidi's coming back off an 0:06:05.080 --> 0:06:08.719 injury and are very dominant twenty twenty four. Now he's 0:06:08.760 --> 0:06:13.360 starting to be dominated in some respects because again he's 0:06:13.400 --> 0:06:16.200 not the biggest number eight running around and he's just 0:06:16.320 --> 0:06:19.040 coming to his game again after getting more pressure put 0:06:19.080 --> 0:06:23.600 on him. Our halves nine and ten always under conjecture, 0:06:23.960 --> 0:06:25.800 and no, I hope it didn't last too long on 0:06:25.839 --> 0:06:28.839 the weekend, hadn't played a game for six weeks without 0:06:28.839 --> 0:06:30.760 a smart decision to put him out there. 0:06:31.440 --> 0:06:32.839 Finley, Christie did his best. 0:06:33.160 --> 0:06:36.000 The viewers and listeners won't like this comment, but Boden 0:06:36.080 --> 0:06:38.560 Barrett's paid over one hundred and twenty five hundred and 0:06:38.600 --> 0:06:42.960 thirty Test matches, such a wonderful servant and admirable the 0:06:42.960 --> 0:06:45.599 way he's played and conducted himself this year. But I 0:06:45.680 --> 0:06:49.080 just wonder if we looked at twenty twenty seven, you know, 0:06:49.360 --> 0:06:53.120 is he the triple threat offense defense and his ability 0:06:53.160 --> 0:06:56.600 to run the game like he used to be And 0:06:56.640 --> 0:06:58.560 where's he going to be in six to twelve to 0:06:58.600 --> 0:07:02.800 eighteen months time to now start sort of rolling the 0:07:02.800 --> 0:07:05.400 dice a bit and bringing a younger player into that 0:07:05.600 --> 0:07:07.520 critical ten, the pivotal spot. 0:07:08.320 --> 0:07:11.080 They're talking about bringing Richie Muhanga back. 0:07:11.560 --> 0:07:13.880 We know how good he is, but again, you know, 0:07:13.960 --> 0:07:16.000 he hasn't always been at his very best at the 0:07:16.080 --> 0:07:19.119 highest international level, and that's what we're talking about now 0:07:19.520 --> 0:07:22.480 playing South Africa, playing France, England, et cetera. 0:07:22.680 --> 0:07:26.320 So the midfield potentially still not set. 0:07:27.760 --> 0:07:28.000 You know. 0:07:28.240 --> 0:07:31.640 My preference was to sort of give Quintupire and Billy 0:07:31.680 --> 0:07:35.480 Procter a shot in the midfield, put Jordi Barrett back 0:07:35.520 --> 0:07:38.560 to full back where he's more comfortable, and probably the 0:07:38.600 --> 0:07:41.000 other area of the game on the weekend other than 0:07:41.000 --> 0:07:43.240 a lot of these sort of positional challenges we have 0:07:44.120 --> 0:07:47.800 was our back three. Defensively, the South African team just 0:07:47.840 --> 0:07:50.360 cut us up in that second half, so I know 0:07:50.440 --> 0:07:53.520 they'll have some work to do defensively, and also aerially 0:07:54.600 --> 0:07:57.240 that's been well documented now that we're still kind of 0:07:57.440 --> 0:08:00.400 losing that aerial battle and at the highest level used 0:08:00.400 --> 0:08:05.120 a lot as an offensive weapon, So you know, in summary, 0:08:05.200 --> 0:08:07.360 a lot of things there to sort of stew over. 0:08:07.440 --> 0:08:09.280 But yeah, that's probably the key things for mine. 0:08:09.400 --> 0:08:11.760 I've seen some commentary and you suggested it as well, 0:08:11.760 --> 0:08:15.760 that the All Blacks have been way too inconsistent and 0:08:15.800 --> 0:08:18.200 that the Abs just don't fall over like that in 0:08:18.280 --> 0:08:21.440 the second half. I mean, it was incredible to watch 0:08:21.560 --> 0:08:25.440 that second half. Should we be questioning what's happening behind 0:08:25.600 --> 0:08:26.680 the scenes. 0:08:26.840 --> 0:08:28.960 Well yeah, I mean it's a good question. 0:08:29.040 --> 0:08:31.960 And you know, as every New Zealander will be doing 0:08:31.960 --> 0:08:33.720 over the next sort of forty eight hours, you know, 0:08:33.800 --> 0:08:36.199 you take a deep dive into some of these things, 0:08:36.200 --> 0:08:38.840 some of these areas of the game. My philosophy always 0:08:38.880 --> 0:08:41.960 is more sort of solution focused rather than firing shots. 0:08:42.040 --> 0:08:44.760 I was blessed to wear the jersey myself, so I'm 0:08:44.800 --> 0:08:47.320 not here to fire shots at specific people. But you've 0:08:47.320 --> 0:08:48.840 got to look, you know, and you got to be honest. 0:08:49.520 --> 0:08:54.320 And I think defensively, you know, we get up one 0:08:54.360 --> 0:08:57.559 week to eat and part test defending the fortress was phenomenal, 0:08:57.679 --> 0:09:01.200 you know, and defense is a lot about integrity. It's 0:09:01.400 --> 0:09:04.000 understanding a system and defending for each other and just 0:09:04.080 --> 0:09:05.920 keep on going even though you might be losing a 0:09:05.920 --> 0:09:08.680 physical battle, but you just don't take a backward step. 0:09:09.200 --> 0:09:11.400 You work hard to get you try and slow the 0:09:11.440 --> 0:09:13.880 ball down. You try and the gate and blunt any 0:09:13.920 --> 0:09:17.280 attack that you see, and also try and diffuse. 0:09:16.920 --> 0:09:18.079 The kicking game as well. 0:09:18.080 --> 0:09:21.880 But when our team starts getting on a roll, and 0:09:21.960 --> 0:09:25.000 in that second half, the South African team went bang bang. 0:09:25.559 --> 0:09:29.760 They then led by fourteen points, and our defensive integrity 0:09:29.800 --> 0:09:33.480 across the paddock just seemed to drop off. It's hard 0:09:33.559 --> 0:09:37.719 to reset and recalibrate to go, hey, boys, we are 0:09:37.760 --> 0:09:40.640 losing this battle. What are we going to do individually 0:09:40.840 --> 0:09:44.200 collectively to kind of turn the tables of it and 0:09:44.240 --> 0:09:46.439 get back into this game? And I just felt that 0:09:46.720 --> 0:09:48.800 we were not able to do that. And it could 0:09:48.840 --> 0:09:51.240 be a whole raft of different reasons there, but you know, 0:09:51.800 --> 0:09:53.960 we really struggled, and of course we let in some 0:09:54.080 --> 0:09:56.280 very soft tries at the back end, which is completely 0:09:56.400 --> 0:10:01.959 uncharacteristic for all black teams, you know, forever. That could 0:10:01.960 --> 0:10:04.760 well be the biggest challenge for them in these next 0:10:04.800 --> 0:10:07.680 two weeks is just to get their defense of mojo back, 0:10:08.120 --> 0:10:11.040 acknowledging that they're not going to dominate a game for 0:10:11.080 --> 0:10:14.160 eighty minutes defensively, because at some point in time, the 0:10:14.200 --> 0:10:16.760 offense is going to get you and you're just going 0:10:16.800 --> 0:10:20.000 to have to absorb that try and find a solution 0:10:20.080 --> 0:10:24.440 and come back again. So now that was a big 0:10:24.480 --> 0:10:28.160 thing for mine defensively because you know you would have 0:10:28.200 --> 0:10:31.479 heard this sole cliche, but you know, defense wins chairmianships 0:10:31.520 --> 0:10:35.720 basically nowadays, and we went at our defensive best. 0:10:35.720 --> 0:10:38.000 On the weekend, I saw of peace from the heralds 0:10:38.040 --> 0:10:40.600 Gregor Paul and he said the All Blacks showed their 0:10:40.640 --> 0:10:43.040 true selves and we need to get used to it. 0:10:43.320 --> 0:10:44.240 Do you agree with that? 0:10:44.679 --> 0:10:47.679 Well, it's a pretty ambiguous statement. You know, what is 0:10:47.720 --> 0:10:48.560 your true self? 0:10:48.760 --> 0:10:49.040 You know? 0:10:49.400 --> 0:10:52.040 For me, the true self of being an All Black 0:10:52.200 --> 0:10:55.280 is you respect the jersey on and off the field, 0:10:55.440 --> 0:10:57.400 and when you run onto the field, you know exactly 0:10:57.440 --> 0:10:59.840 what your job is because you've been selected to do 0:10:59.880 --> 0:11:02.400 it job. And then how well you work with your 0:11:02.400 --> 0:11:07.960 brothers and connect and die for the jersey? 0:11:09.200 --> 0:11:11.400 You know? And I mean you have eighty minutes. 0:11:11.720 --> 0:11:15.080 You are blessed to have eighty minutes to prove to yourself, 0:11:15.120 --> 0:11:18.840 your family, your teammates and everyone that you deserve to 0:11:18.880 --> 0:11:20.400 be there and be legit. 0:11:20.320 --> 0:11:21.920 Do you reckon have lost a bit of that manner? 0:11:22.480 --> 0:11:25.080 I don't think so. I mean, if you look at 0:11:25.280 --> 0:11:27.439 every player, man for man, they would have been hurting 0:11:27.480 --> 0:11:32.680 after the weekend, and I probably just hope that when 0:11:32.720 --> 0:11:36.880 they review this game, and let's say hypothetically, you're walking 0:11:36.920 --> 0:11:39.880 into a changing room after a pretty heavy defeat and 0:11:39.920 --> 0:11:42.360 the hurt was there, you could see and raise a 0:11:42.480 --> 0:11:45.959 Robinson really tough for him to front the media after 0:11:46.000 --> 0:11:49.240 suffering a loss like that as the leading coach, that 0:11:49.559 --> 0:11:52.679 they have a good look in the mirror because you've 0:11:52.679 --> 0:11:55.520 got to look at yourself first, and I'm sure every 0:11:55.559 --> 0:11:56.960 one of the players that were on the field on 0:11:57.000 --> 0:11:58.880 the weekend will be looking in the mirror going, hey, 0:11:58.920 --> 0:12:03.600 I got a things wrong and that's not who I am, 0:12:04.120 --> 0:12:07.080 and that's not how I train, and that's not how 0:12:07.080 --> 0:12:10.240 I want to perform. So I know that sounds a 0:12:10.240 --> 0:12:13.199 bit idealistic, but at the end of the day, if 0:12:13.240 --> 0:12:17.200 players are doing that, then you can get back on 0:12:17.240 --> 0:12:21.480 your horse in time because everyone acknowledges that you know, 0:12:21.520 --> 0:12:23.640 they can perform a lot better. And of course the 0:12:23.679 --> 0:12:26.920 coaches have got to do the same and to be blunted, 0:12:26.920 --> 0:12:28.559 you know, the news in a public at time, and 0:12:28.600 --> 0:12:31.360 I look in the mirror too and go, hey, do 0:12:31.440 --> 0:12:34.360 you understand where rugby landscape is in the world nowadays? 0:12:34.800 --> 0:12:39.720 And again, not conceding but acknowledging that every single Test 0:12:39.760 --> 0:12:43.000 match we play against those top tier nations, it's not 0:12:43.040 --> 0:12:45.800 going to be a walkover anymore. It's going to be 0:12:45.840 --> 0:12:48.199 a excuse my friends. It's going to be a shit fight. 0:12:49.600 --> 0:12:52.400 Every week. And you know that's that's going to be 0:12:52.400 --> 0:12:53.480 an ongoing challenge for us. 0:12:59.320 --> 0:13:02.720 I felt like the second half you couldn't buy when 0:13:02.760 --> 0:13:06.280 I started going, yeah, fully droppers, et cetera. Can you 0:13:06.320 --> 0:13:08.240 put your finger on how it unrippled? 0:13:12.280 --> 0:13:15.200 Not right at the moment. Something we didn't be able 0:13:15.200 --> 0:13:18.120 to look at it. And obviously you'll find it pretty quickly, 0:13:18.120 --> 0:13:21.480 little big Pislow coming in, do you reckon? 0:13:21.840 --> 0:13:26.480 People are right to question whether Razors should be there 0:13:26.679 --> 0:13:28.920 or not after just this one defeat. 0:13:29.559 --> 0:13:35.280 Well, we have a habit in New Zealand of you know, 0:13:35.440 --> 0:13:39.160 things aren't going too well. Fire the coach Fozzy, you know, 0:13:39.600 --> 0:13:43.319 he suffered immensely in that space, you know, and there 0:13:43.400 --> 0:13:50.800 was some really objective discussions around potentially shifting from Fozzy 0:13:50.840 --> 0:13:55.400 to the next group. Razor had already been sitting in 0:13:55.440 --> 0:13:59.800 the wings with his highly successful Cannaby Crusaders Rain. 0:14:01.240 --> 0:14:01.440 You know. 0:14:01.480 --> 0:14:04.840 But there's a step to the international standard and the 0:14:04.920 --> 0:14:07.319 News and Rugby Union made the decision to do that 0:14:08.520 --> 0:14:11.040 based on a whole raft of factors, and we don't 0:14:11.080 --> 0:14:14.079 often see those, but we see the end product, which 0:14:14.120 --> 0:14:15.920 is what runs out the tunnel and delivers it on 0:14:15.960 --> 0:14:19.320 a weekly basis. And also as importantly, how well these 0:14:19.360 --> 0:14:24.880 men conduct themselves in the community. And you know, Raises 0:14:25.160 --> 0:14:29.920 a cultural person who's innovative and keeps trying to find 0:14:29.960 --> 0:14:33.960 ways for players and teams to connect, and he respects 0:14:34.000 --> 0:14:36.800 that All Black Jersey people will argue, maybe we're giving 0:14:36.880 --> 0:14:40.880 him longer time because of his super rugby success than 0:14:40.920 --> 0:14:42.080 we did to Ian Foster. 0:14:43.160 --> 0:14:46.400 Well, to me, it's probably too soon. 0:14:47.040 --> 0:14:52.680 But you know, if a team continues to show weaknesses 0:14:53.160 --> 0:14:56.920 and poor performances, you know over a calendar year, I 0:14:56.920 --> 0:14:59.360 think you're better to always ascertain at the back end, 0:14:59.360 --> 0:15:02.360 have a strong you do it in the right way, 0:15:02.440 --> 0:15:04.080 and then say well, hey, look, you know, is this 0:15:04.840 --> 0:15:06.800 group is this leader the one to take us through 0:15:06.840 --> 0:15:08.960 to twenty twenty seven because we've still got some time here. 0:15:09.880 --> 0:15:12.200 You know, Quis are like, we're pretty hard when it 0:15:12.240 --> 0:15:15.000 comes to pointing the finger. I mean, look at Nolan 0:15:15.120 --> 0:15:18.920 told her, and I don't for one minute understand what 0:15:19.080 --> 0:15:23.520 happened there. But you know, she went from being you know, 0:15:23.760 --> 0:15:27.760 Dame Nolean to being someone who's been moved out the side. 0:15:27.880 --> 0:15:29.320 So they'll have their reasons. 0:15:29.640 --> 0:15:33.800 It's tough, classic tall poppy syndrome. Hey, do you reckon 0:15:33.840 --> 0:15:37.440 that all blacks have enough depth to take us into 0:15:37.440 --> 0:15:39.560 twenty twenty seven or is that somewhere where we really 0:15:39.600 --> 0:15:40.240 need to work on. 0:15:40.560 --> 0:15:42.760 Oh, you hit the nail on the head. 0:15:42.920 --> 0:15:45.560 You know, that's one of the biggest concerns for me 0:15:45.640 --> 0:15:49.240 because you often hear RASI Erasmus, and I thought they 0:15:49.280 --> 0:15:51.920 actually conducted themselves pretty well on the weekend with the victory, 0:15:51.960 --> 0:15:54.280 because that had a bit of stuff shoved at them 0:15:54.640 --> 0:15:57.840 over the last seven days prior to Wellington, and they 0:15:57.880 --> 0:15:58.800 are very good at this. 0:15:59.160 --> 0:16:01.080 That's mart with how they respond. 0:16:01.760 --> 0:16:03.960 And one of the things that flowed through for me 0:16:04.120 --> 0:16:07.040 really extensively was he talked about the squad of forty five, 0:16:07.400 --> 0:16:09.440 and when he's talking about the squad of forty five, 0:16:09.480 --> 0:16:12.920 he's not being pc that they have forty five players 0:16:12.920 --> 0:16:17.040 who are humming to wear the Springbok jersey, and so 0:16:17.080 --> 0:16:20.680 he's creating depth in every single position. And I'm not 0:16:20.840 --> 0:16:24.600 convinced that we're in the same boat. I don't think 0:16:24.680 --> 0:16:28.280 we have forty five. I'm not quite sure executly the 0:16:28.360 --> 0:16:31.360 number of players who are in this awkabat all back camp. 0:16:31.360 --> 0:16:34.600 I think it's about thirty two or thirty four, you know, 0:16:34.640 --> 0:16:37.680 but forty five is three teams. So you're saying in 0:16:37.720 --> 0:16:41.320 every position you're building and grooming and developing three players. 0:16:42.560 --> 0:16:44.720 You know, we can look at some of the players 0:16:45.320 --> 0:16:46.240 in our current team. 0:16:46.440 --> 0:16:47.040 We look at our. 0:16:47.040 --> 0:16:50.280 Nines, we get our tens, look at our midfielders, fullbacks. 0:16:50.520 --> 0:16:55.800 You know, if we overlaid that forty five player process, 0:16:56.680 --> 0:16:58.720 have we got three lined up in every spot and 0:16:58.760 --> 0:17:01.160 obviously in the front road a few more because you've 0:17:01.160 --> 0:17:02.960 got to even elucian and a tidy head prop. 0:17:03.840 --> 0:17:05.480 So that's a challenge for us. 0:17:05.560 --> 0:17:07.960 And look, there is a big gap between super rugby 0:17:07.960 --> 0:17:10.600 and international rugby and that's where our players come from. 0:17:11.440 --> 0:17:13.320 So how much of a layer are we going. 0:17:13.240 --> 0:17:16.040 To pull through from super rugby to have our squad 0:17:16.040 --> 0:17:19.399 at forty five doesn't have to be forty five, but 0:17:19.880 --> 0:17:23.760 the context is around having more rather than less. 0:17:24.119 --> 0:17:26.199 Thanks for joining us, Strawnie. 0:17:25.800 --> 0:17:27.520 No worries, take care. 0:17:30.720 --> 0:17:33.960 That's it for this episode of the Front Page. You 0:17:34.000 --> 0:17:37.880 can read more about today's stories and extensive news coverage 0:17:37.920 --> 0:17:42.000 at enzadherld dot co dot nz. The Front Page is 0:17:42.080 --> 0:17:45.480 produced by Jane Ye and Richard Martin, who is also 0:17:45.680 --> 0:17:50.200 our editor. I'm Chelsea Daniels. Subscribe to the Front Page 0:17:50.200 --> 0:17:53.840 on iHeartRadio or wherever you get your podcasts, and tune 0:17:53.840 --> 0:17:56.880 in tomorrow for another look behind the headlines.