1 00:00:05,440 --> 00:00:05,840 Speaker 1: Kyota. 2 00:00:05,880 --> 00:00:09,079 Speaker 2: I'm Chelsea Daniels and this is the Front Page, a 3 00:00:09,200 --> 00:00:16,400 Speaker 2: daily podcast presented by The New Zealand Herald. The All 4 00:00:16,440 --> 00:00:20,480 Speaker 2: Blacks have taken a giant step backwards in a forty 5 00:00:20,600 --> 00:00:23,920 Speaker 2: three to ten crushing at the hands of South Africa 6 00:00:24,000 --> 00:00:29,040 Speaker 2: in Wellington. It's their worst ever defeat, shipping six tries 7 00:00:29,080 --> 00:00:33,080 Speaker 2: to one after leading ten to seven at halftime. The 8 00:00:33,120 --> 00:00:37,000 Speaker 2: performance has prompted questions about the team's ability to recover 9 00:00:37,200 --> 00:00:42,319 Speaker 2: and deliver consistent, high quality showings. So what does this 10 00:00:42,520 --> 00:00:46,919 Speaker 2: record breaking display mean for the future of the All Blacks. 11 00:00:47,360 --> 00:00:50,880 Speaker 2: Today on the Front Page, former All Black turned commentator 12 00:00:50,960 --> 00:00:54,600 Speaker 2: and Strawn is with us to discuss the weekend, the 13 00:00:54,640 --> 00:01:03,240 Speaker 2: consequences and the future of our team. First off, Strawnie, 14 00:01:03,240 --> 00:01:07,720 Speaker 2: tell me about this record loss in Wellington, what do 15 00:01:07,760 --> 00:01:08,280 Speaker 2: you make of it? 16 00:01:08,560 --> 00:01:12,080 Speaker 3: Well, it was disappointing, I guess as a New Zealander overall. 17 00:01:12,120 --> 00:01:13,800 Speaker 3: But I think one of the key things, and I 18 00:01:13,840 --> 00:01:16,200 Speaker 3: haven't heard it too much in the last forty eight hours, 19 00:01:16,319 --> 00:01:18,880 Speaker 3: is that there are now six nations in the top 20 00:01:18,959 --> 00:01:22,760 Speaker 3: tier in world rugby who are actually really close now 21 00:01:23,319 --> 00:01:26,280 Speaker 3: and historically the All Blacks have been cut above the rest. 22 00:01:26,840 --> 00:01:29,520 Speaker 1: So our percentages. Winning percentages are very high. 23 00:01:30,040 --> 00:01:32,760 Speaker 3: But now you'll see in the last two or three 24 00:01:32,880 --> 00:01:35,640 Speaker 3: years that if a team is a bit off in 25 00:01:35,720 --> 00:01:38,119 Speaker 3: one or two or a number of areas of the game, 26 00:01:38,959 --> 00:01:40,959 Speaker 3: they can be beaten by any team. And of course 27 00:01:40,959 --> 00:01:45,040 Speaker 3: the home and away advantage is consistent too, So that's 28 00:01:45,040 --> 00:01:48,280 Speaker 3: probably the biggest thing. I mean, we need to acknowledge that, 29 00:01:48,920 --> 00:01:51,960 Speaker 3: not accept it, because we have very high standards for 30 00:01:52,040 --> 00:01:53,960 Speaker 3: our all Black team. But you know, I think it's 31 00:01:54,000 --> 00:01:57,640 Speaker 3: important that we do talk and acknowledge that fact. You know, 32 00:01:57,720 --> 00:02:00,600 Speaker 3: the world rugby particular, those big nations have caught. 33 00:02:00,480 --> 00:02:00,920 Speaker 1: Up with us. 34 00:02:01,080 --> 00:02:05,200 Speaker 2: And so because those other nations have gotten better and 35 00:02:05,280 --> 00:02:09,280 Speaker 2: we started up here, right, why haven't we gotten better 36 00:02:09,680 --> 00:02:10,720 Speaker 2: as the years go on. 37 00:02:11,680 --> 00:02:14,040 Speaker 3: Well, you know people will say, well, have we stagnated? 38 00:02:14,040 --> 00:02:15,840 Speaker 3: And I don't think so. I mean, we've got some 39 00:02:15,880 --> 00:02:19,160 Speaker 3: wonderful domestic competitions in New Zealand now Super Rugby competition 40 00:02:19,360 --> 00:02:22,000 Speaker 3: is right up there in terms of you know, weekly 41 00:02:22,639 --> 00:02:24,959 Speaker 3: opportunity for our players to develop. And then of course 42 00:02:25,000 --> 00:02:28,400 Speaker 3: that last stepping stones into international there's probably two or 43 00:02:28,480 --> 00:02:31,680 Speaker 3: three areas where we probably haven't kept pace with those 44 00:02:31,720 --> 00:02:34,920 Speaker 3: top teams, and it's the physical nature, not only the 45 00:02:34,960 --> 00:02:38,959 Speaker 3: physiological piece, but just the size of these men we 46 00:02:39,040 --> 00:02:42,320 Speaker 3: are playing against. And you know, New Zealanders aren't small, 47 00:02:42,880 --> 00:02:45,760 Speaker 3: and obviously it's a multi racial society. We have you know, 48 00:02:45,919 --> 00:02:48,640 Speaker 3: players them all around the world that live in now reside. 49 00:02:48,400 --> 00:02:49,000 Speaker 1: In New Zealand. 50 00:02:49,680 --> 00:02:51,720 Speaker 3: But we just manned for man Now, we just don't 51 00:02:51,760 --> 00:02:55,720 Speaker 3: seem to match up physically. So that's something that I 52 00:02:55,760 --> 00:02:59,280 Speaker 3: guess can be addressed in a gymnasium. It might be 53 00:02:59,280 --> 00:03:00,959 Speaker 3: to do with nutrition, and it could be a whole 54 00:03:01,040 --> 00:03:04,480 Speaker 3: raft of factors. But they are big men. When you 55 00:03:04,520 --> 00:03:06,960 Speaker 3: look at a French team, a South African team, an 56 00:03:07,000 --> 00:03:08,520 Speaker 3: English team, now. 57 00:03:09,360 --> 00:03:12,560 Speaker 1: You know we are no longer towering over them. We 58 00:03:12,680 --> 00:03:15,160 Speaker 1: are in fact often smaller. 59 00:03:15,720 --> 00:03:19,000 Speaker 3: So over an eighty minute period, that physical confrontation will 60 00:03:19,000 --> 00:03:22,799 Speaker 3: take its toll, particularly if your players are slightly smaller, 61 00:03:23,040 --> 00:03:25,520 Speaker 3: you know. So I'd say that's the biggest thing. And 62 00:03:25,560 --> 00:03:29,120 Speaker 3: also now the analytical part of the game. It's so 63 00:03:29,280 --> 00:03:33,040 Speaker 3: easy to access how other teams are playing, and I 64 00:03:33,120 --> 00:03:36,880 Speaker 3: know there are teams and screeds of people who take 65 00:03:36,920 --> 00:03:39,480 Speaker 3: a deep dive into their opposition that they're about to 66 00:03:39,480 --> 00:03:43,720 Speaker 3: play in the coming weekend. So that also means that 67 00:03:43,840 --> 00:03:47,000 Speaker 3: teams are way better prepared to potentially expose some of 68 00:03:47,040 --> 00:03:51,040 Speaker 3: your weaknesses or perceived weaknesses, and you know, the All 69 00:03:51,040 --> 00:03:54,360 Speaker 3: Black team are always heavily scrutinized in that space. So 70 00:03:54,960 --> 00:03:56,920 Speaker 3: they're probably the two biggest ones for Mike. 71 00:03:58,480 --> 00:04:02,480 Speaker 2: In terms of weakness. Is what did the All Blacks 72 00:04:02,520 --> 00:04:05,280 Speaker 2: show the weekend? What were our biggest weaknesses? 73 00:04:05,760 --> 00:04:06,560 Speaker 1: It's a good question. 74 00:04:06,840 --> 00:04:09,280 Speaker 3: I sort of joddled down a few things, but I 75 00:04:09,280 --> 00:04:11,920 Speaker 3: think we still have some positional issues. So when you 76 00:04:11,960 --> 00:04:13,800 Speaker 3: look at a squad and this is a developing squad 77 00:04:13,800 --> 00:04:16,200 Speaker 3: as they head towards the twenty twenty seven World Cup, 78 00:04:17,040 --> 00:04:20,039 Speaker 3: across the board, you know we are still trying and 79 00:04:20,120 --> 00:04:24,200 Speaker 3: developing our style that fits a certain profile of athlete, 80 00:04:24,279 --> 00:04:27,240 Speaker 3: and I think on the weekend we all saw that 81 00:04:27,360 --> 00:04:30,320 Speaker 3: at set piece, So at scrum time we really started 82 00:04:30,320 --> 00:04:32,000 Speaker 3: to struggle, particularly in the second half. 83 00:04:32,640 --> 00:04:34,000 Speaker 1: And the greatest irony here is. 84 00:04:34,000 --> 00:04:36,880 Speaker 3: That we have a tight head prop to Mighty Williams, 85 00:04:36,880 --> 00:04:41,880 Speaker 3: who's tall one hundred and forty kilos, but he almost 86 00:04:42,080 --> 00:04:44,760 Speaker 3: sits behind now the two or three South African props 87 00:04:44,760 --> 00:04:47,440 Speaker 3: that they roll off their bench because he's no longer 88 00:04:47,520 --> 00:04:51,359 Speaker 3: the biggest guy and he's got maybe some technical and 89 00:04:51,360 --> 00:04:55,160 Speaker 3: tactical deficiencies in his game too. So at scrum time 90 00:04:55,400 --> 00:04:58,800 Speaker 3: we struggle and as you probably know, set piece is 91 00:04:58,839 --> 00:05:00,760 Speaker 3: where you start a lot of your back from so 92 00:05:01,320 --> 00:05:03,520 Speaker 3: and also line out time they started to pick us 93 00:05:03,560 --> 00:05:07,159 Speaker 3: off as well, so you're almost cutting off a source 94 00:05:07,760 --> 00:05:11,120 Speaker 3: of ball and the ability to attack at scrum and 95 00:05:11,160 --> 00:05:11,560 Speaker 3: line out. 96 00:05:11,640 --> 00:05:14,160 Speaker 1: They really did hit us hard there. 97 00:05:14,480 --> 00:05:17,800 Speaker 3: Then you could go through the team in terms of players, 98 00:05:18,160 --> 00:05:21,680 Speaker 3: I mean, without being too critical, I think Scott Barrett 99 00:05:21,920 --> 00:05:24,479 Speaker 3: still is deserving of an All Black jersey, but I 100 00:05:24,560 --> 00:05:27,039 Speaker 3: just wonder whether if you take the captaincy away from him, 101 00:05:27,440 --> 00:05:28,720 Speaker 3: whether he'll actually. 102 00:05:28,440 --> 00:05:31,240 Speaker 1: Be able to just focus on his positional role do 103 00:05:31,360 --> 00:05:31,800 Speaker 1: his job. 104 00:05:31,839 --> 00:05:34,720 Speaker 3: He's a big boy, he's good arealy, he's good at 105 00:05:34,720 --> 00:05:37,960 Speaker 3: moving bodies both sides of the ball, attack, defense, but 106 00:05:38,040 --> 00:05:41,480 Speaker 3: he seems to be way down with the captaincy. And 107 00:05:41,520 --> 00:05:44,080 Speaker 3: we all know how good Ardie Savi. I mean, he's 108 00:05:44,120 --> 00:05:46,520 Speaker 3: a wonderful player anyway, world class, but he grows another 109 00:05:46,640 --> 00:05:49,479 Speaker 3: leg when they give him the captaincy. So maybe a 110 00:05:49,560 --> 00:05:53,880 Speaker 3: shift back to that particular scenario, and then you know, 111 00:05:53,920 --> 00:05:56,960 Speaker 3: you have a number of players that are still pretty 112 00:05:57,000 --> 00:05:59,480 Speaker 3: young in terms of their test match experience as Simon 113 00:06:00,160 --> 00:06:01,920 Speaker 3: has been really good, but he's only played three or 114 00:06:01,920 --> 00:06:05,080 Speaker 3: full Test matches while a Cetidi's coming back off an 115 00:06:05,080 --> 00:06:08,719 Speaker 3: injury and are very dominant twenty twenty four. Now he's 116 00:06:08,760 --> 00:06:13,360 Speaker 3: starting to be dominated in some respects because again he's 117 00:06:13,400 --> 00:06:16,200 Speaker 3: not the biggest number eight running around and he's just 118 00:06:16,320 --> 00:06:19,040 Speaker 3: coming to his game again after getting more pressure put 119 00:06:19,080 --> 00:06:23,600 Speaker 3: on him. Our halves nine and ten always under conjecture, 120 00:06:23,960 --> 00:06:25,800 Speaker 3: and no, I hope it didn't last too long on 121 00:06:25,839 --> 00:06:28,839 Speaker 3: the weekend, hadn't played a game for six weeks without 122 00:06:28,839 --> 00:06:30,760 Speaker 3: a smart decision to put him out there. 123 00:06:31,440 --> 00:06:32,839 Speaker 1: Finley, Christie did his best. 124 00:06:33,160 --> 00:06:36,000 Speaker 3: The viewers and listeners won't like this comment, but Boden 125 00:06:36,080 --> 00:06:38,560 Speaker 3: Barrett's paid over one hundred and twenty five hundred and 126 00:06:38,600 --> 00:06:42,960 Speaker 3: thirty Test matches, such a wonderful servant and admirable the 127 00:06:42,960 --> 00:06:45,599 Speaker 3: way he's played and conducted himself this year. But I 128 00:06:45,680 --> 00:06:49,080 Speaker 3: just wonder if we looked at twenty twenty seven, you know, 129 00:06:49,360 --> 00:06:53,120 Speaker 3: is he the triple threat offense defense and his ability 130 00:06:53,160 --> 00:06:56,600 Speaker 3: to run the game like he used to be And 131 00:06:56,640 --> 00:06:58,560 Speaker 3: where's he going to be in six to twelve to 132 00:06:58,600 --> 00:07:02,800 Speaker 3: eighteen months time to now start sort of rolling the 133 00:07:02,800 --> 00:07:05,400 Speaker 3: dice a bit and bringing a younger player into that 134 00:07:05,600 --> 00:07:07,520 Speaker 3: critical ten, the pivotal spot. 135 00:07:08,320 --> 00:07:11,080 Speaker 1: They're talking about bringing Richie Muhanga back. 136 00:07:11,560 --> 00:07:13,880 Speaker 3: We know how good he is, but again, you know, 137 00:07:13,960 --> 00:07:16,000 Speaker 3: he hasn't always been at his very best at the 138 00:07:16,080 --> 00:07:19,119 Speaker 3: highest international level, and that's what we're talking about now 139 00:07:19,520 --> 00:07:22,480 Speaker 3: playing South Africa, playing France, England, et cetera. 140 00:07:22,680 --> 00:07:26,320 Speaker 1: So the midfield potentially still not set. 141 00:07:27,760 --> 00:07:28,000 Speaker 2: You know. 142 00:07:28,240 --> 00:07:31,640 Speaker 3: My preference was to sort of give Quintupire and Billy 143 00:07:31,680 --> 00:07:35,480 Speaker 3: Procter a shot in the midfield, put Jordi Barrett back 144 00:07:35,520 --> 00:07:38,560 Speaker 3: to full back where he's more comfortable, and probably the 145 00:07:38,600 --> 00:07:41,000 Speaker 3: other area of the game on the weekend other than 146 00:07:41,000 --> 00:07:43,240 Speaker 3: a lot of these sort of positional challenges we have 147 00:07:44,120 --> 00:07:47,800 Speaker 3: was our back three. Defensively, the South African team just 148 00:07:47,840 --> 00:07:50,360 Speaker 3: cut us up in that second half, so I know 149 00:07:50,440 --> 00:07:53,520 Speaker 3: they'll have some work to do defensively, and also aerially 150 00:07:54,600 --> 00:07:57,240 Speaker 3: that's been well documented now that we're still kind of 151 00:07:57,440 --> 00:08:00,400 Speaker 3: losing that aerial battle and at the highest level used 152 00:08:00,400 --> 00:08:05,120 Speaker 3: a lot as an offensive weapon, So you know, in summary, 153 00:08:05,200 --> 00:08:07,360 Speaker 3: a lot of things there to sort of stew over. 154 00:08:07,440 --> 00:08:09,280 Speaker 1: But yeah, that's probably the key things for mine. 155 00:08:09,400 --> 00:08:11,760 Speaker 2: I've seen some commentary and you suggested it as well, 156 00:08:11,760 --> 00:08:15,760 Speaker 2: that the All Blacks have been way too inconsistent and 157 00:08:15,800 --> 00:08:18,200 Speaker 2: that the Abs just don't fall over like that in 158 00:08:18,280 --> 00:08:21,440 Speaker 2: the second half. I mean, it was incredible to watch 159 00:08:21,560 --> 00:08:25,440 Speaker 2: that second half. Should we be questioning what's happening behind 160 00:08:25,600 --> 00:08:26,680 Speaker 2: the scenes. 161 00:08:26,840 --> 00:08:28,960 Speaker 1: Well yeah, I mean it's a good question. 162 00:08:29,040 --> 00:08:31,960 Speaker 3: And you know, as every New Zealander will be doing 163 00:08:31,960 --> 00:08:33,720 Speaker 3: over the next sort of forty eight hours, you know, 164 00:08:33,800 --> 00:08:36,199 Speaker 3: you take a deep dive into some of these things, 165 00:08:36,200 --> 00:08:38,840 Speaker 3: some of these areas of the game. My philosophy always 166 00:08:38,880 --> 00:08:41,960 Speaker 3: is more sort of solution focused rather than firing shots. 167 00:08:42,040 --> 00:08:44,760 Speaker 3: I was blessed to wear the jersey myself, so I'm 168 00:08:44,800 --> 00:08:47,320 Speaker 3: not here to fire shots at specific people. But you've 169 00:08:47,320 --> 00:08:48,840 Speaker 3: got to look, you know, and you got to be honest. 170 00:08:49,520 --> 00:08:54,320 Speaker 3: And I think defensively, you know, we get up one 171 00:08:54,360 --> 00:08:57,559 Speaker 3: week to eat and part test defending the fortress was phenomenal, 172 00:08:57,679 --> 00:09:01,200 Speaker 3: you know, and defense is a lot about integrity. It's 173 00:09:01,400 --> 00:09:04,000 Speaker 3: understanding a system and defending for each other and just 174 00:09:04,080 --> 00:09:05,920 Speaker 3: keep on going even though you might be losing a 175 00:09:05,920 --> 00:09:08,680 Speaker 3: physical battle, but you just don't take a backward step. 176 00:09:09,200 --> 00:09:11,400 Speaker 3: You work hard to get you try and slow the 177 00:09:11,440 --> 00:09:13,880 Speaker 3: ball down. You try and the gate and blunt any 178 00:09:13,920 --> 00:09:17,280 Speaker 3: attack that you see, and also try and diffuse. 179 00:09:16,920 --> 00:09:18,079 Speaker 1: The kicking game as well. 180 00:09:18,080 --> 00:09:21,880 Speaker 3: But when our team starts getting on a roll, and 181 00:09:21,960 --> 00:09:25,000 Speaker 3: in that second half, the South African team went bang bang. 182 00:09:25,559 --> 00:09:29,760 Speaker 3: They then led by fourteen points, and our defensive integrity 183 00:09:29,800 --> 00:09:33,480 Speaker 3: across the paddock just seemed to drop off. It's hard 184 00:09:33,559 --> 00:09:37,719 Speaker 3: to reset and recalibrate to go, hey, boys, we are 185 00:09:37,760 --> 00:09:40,640 Speaker 3: losing this battle. What are we going to do individually 186 00:09:40,840 --> 00:09:44,200 Speaker 3: collectively to kind of turn the tables of it and 187 00:09:44,240 --> 00:09:46,439 Speaker 3: get back into this game? And I just felt that 188 00:09:46,720 --> 00:09:48,800 Speaker 3: we were not able to do that. And it could 189 00:09:48,840 --> 00:09:51,240 Speaker 3: be a whole raft of different reasons there, but you know, 190 00:09:51,800 --> 00:09:53,960 Speaker 3: we really struggled, and of course we let in some 191 00:09:54,080 --> 00:09:56,280 Speaker 3: very soft tries at the back end, which is completely 192 00:09:56,400 --> 00:10:01,959 Speaker 3: uncharacteristic for all black teams, you know, forever. That could 193 00:10:01,960 --> 00:10:04,760 Speaker 3: well be the biggest challenge for them in these next 194 00:10:04,800 --> 00:10:07,680 Speaker 3: two weeks is just to get their defense of mojo back, 195 00:10:08,120 --> 00:10:11,040 Speaker 3: acknowledging that they're not going to dominate a game for 196 00:10:11,080 --> 00:10:14,160 Speaker 3: eighty minutes defensively, because at some point in time, the 197 00:10:14,200 --> 00:10:16,760 Speaker 3: offense is going to get you and you're just going 198 00:10:16,800 --> 00:10:20,000 Speaker 3: to have to absorb that try and find a solution 199 00:10:20,080 --> 00:10:24,440 Speaker 3: and come back again. So now that was a big 200 00:10:24,480 --> 00:10:28,160 Speaker 3: thing for mine defensively because you know you would have 201 00:10:28,200 --> 00:10:31,479 Speaker 3: heard this sole cliche, but you know, defense wins chairmianships 202 00:10:31,520 --> 00:10:35,720 Speaker 3: basically nowadays, and we went at our defensive best. 203 00:10:35,720 --> 00:10:38,000 Speaker 2: On the weekend, I saw of peace from the heralds 204 00:10:38,040 --> 00:10:40,600 Speaker 2: Gregor Paul and he said the All Blacks showed their 205 00:10:40,640 --> 00:10:43,040 Speaker 2: true selves and we need to get used to it. 206 00:10:43,320 --> 00:10:44,240 Speaker 1: Do you agree with that? 207 00:10:44,679 --> 00:10:47,679 Speaker 3: Well, it's a pretty ambiguous statement. You know, what is 208 00:10:47,720 --> 00:10:48,560 Speaker 3: your true self? 209 00:10:48,760 --> 00:10:49,040 Speaker 1: You know? 210 00:10:49,400 --> 00:10:52,040 Speaker 3: For me, the true self of being an All Black 211 00:10:52,200 --> 00:10:55,280 Speaker 3: is you respect the jersey on and off the field, 212 00:10:55,440 --> 00:10:57,400 Speaker 3: and when you run onto the field, you know exactly 213 00:10:57,440 --> 00:10:59,840 Speaker 3: what your job is because you've been selected to do 214 00:10:59,880 --> 00:11:02,400 Speaker 3: it job. And then how well you work with your 215 00:11:02,400 --> 00:11:07,960 Speaker 3: brothers and connect and die for the jersey? 216 00:11:09,200 --> 00:11:11,400 Speaker 1: You know? And I mean you have eighty minutes. 217 00:11:11,720 --> 00:11:15,080 Speaker 3: You are blessed to have eighty minutes to prove to yourself, 218 00:11:15,120 --> 00:11:18,840 Speaker 3: your family, your teammates and everyone that you deserve to 219 00:11:18,880 --> 00:11:20,400 Speaker 3: be there and be legit. 220 00:11:20,320 --> 00:11:21,920 Speaker 2: Do you reckon have lost a bit of that manner? 221 00:11:22,480 --> 00:11:25,080 Speaker 3: I don't think so. I mean, if you look at 222 00:11:25,280 --> 00:11:27,439 Speaker 3: every player, man for man, they would have been hurting 223 00:11:27,480 --> 00:11:32,680 Speaker 3: after the weekend, and I probably just hope that when 224 00:11:32,720 --> 00:11:36,880 Speaker 3: they review this game, and let's say hypothetically, you're walking 225 00:11:36,920 --> 00:11:39,880 Speaker 3: into a changing room after a pretty heavy defeat and 226 00:11:39,920 --> 00:11:42,360 Speaker 3: the hurt was there, you could see and raise a 227 00:11:42,480 --> 00:11:45,959 Speaker 3: Robinson really tough for him to front the media after 228 00:11:46,000 --> 00:11:49,240 Speaker 3: suffering a loss like that as the leading coach, that 229 00:11:49,559 --> 00:11:52,679 Speaker 3: they have a good look in the mirror because you've 230 00:11:52,679 --> 00:11:55,520 Speaker 3: got to look at yourself first, and I'm sure every 231 00:11:55,559 --> 00:11:56,960 Speaker 3: one of the players that were on the field on 232 00:11:57,000 --> 00:11:58,880 Speaker 3: the weekend will be looking in the mirror going, hey, 233 00:11:58,920 --> 00:12:03,600 Speaker 3: I got a things wrong and that's not who I am, 234 00:12:04,120 --> 00:12:07,080 Speaker 3: and that's not how I train, and that's not how 235 00:12:07,080 --> 00:12:10,240 Speaker 3: I want to perform. So I know that sounds a 236 00:12:10,240 --> 00:12:13,199 Speaker 3: bit idealistic, but at the end of the day, if 237 00:12:13,240 --> 00:12:17,200 Speaker 3: players are doing that, then you can get back on 238 00:12:17,240 --> 00:12:21,480 Speaker 3: your horse in time because everyone acknowledges that you know, 239 00:12:21,520 --> 00:12:23,640 Speaker 3: they can perform a lot better. And of course the 240 00:12:23,679 --> 00:12:26,920 Speaker 3: coaches have got to do the same and to be blunted, 241 00:12:26,920 --> 00:12:28,559 Speaker 3: you know, the news in a public at time, and 242 00:12:28,600 --> 00:12:31,360 Speaker 3: I look in the mirror too and go, hey, do 243 00:12:31,440 --> 00:12:34,360 Speaker 3: you understand where rugby landscape is in the world nowadays? 244 00:12:34,800 --> 00:12:39,720 Speaker 3: And again, not conceding but acknowledging that every single Test 245 00:12:39,760 --> 00:12:43,000 Speaker 3: match we play against those top tier nations, it's not 246 00:12:43,040 --> 00:12:45,800 Speaker 3: going to be a walkover anymore. It's going to be 247 00:12:45,840 --> 00:12:48,199 Speaker 3: a excuse my friends. It's going to be a shit fight. 248 00:12:49,600 --> 00:12:52,400 Speaker 1: Every week. And you know that's that's going to be 249 00:12:52,400 --> 00:12:53,480 Speaker 1: an ongoing challenge for us. 250 00:12:59,320 --> 00:13:02,720 Speaker 2: I felt like the second half you couldn't buy when 251 00:13:02,760 --> 00:13:06,280 Speaker 2: I started going, yeah, fully droppers, et cetera. Can you 252 00:13:06,320 --> 00:13:08,240 Speaker 2: put your finger on how it unrippled? 253 00:13:12,280 --> 00:13:15,200 Speaker 1: Not right at the moment. Something we didn't be able 254 00:13:15,200 --> 00:13:18,120 Speaker 1: to look at it. And obviously you'll find it pretty quickly, 255 00:13:18,120 --> 00:13:21,480 Speaker 1: little big Pislow coming in, do you reckon? 256 00:13:21,840 --> 00:13:26,480 Speaker 2: People are right to question whether Razors should be there 257 00:13:26,679 --> 00:13:28,920 Speaker 2: or not after just this one defeat. 258 00:13:29,559 --> 00:13:35,280 Speaker 3: Well, we have a habit in New Zealand of you know, 259 00:13:35,440 --> 00:13:39,160 Speaker 3: things aren't going too well. Fire the coach Fozzy, you know, 260 00:13:39,600 --> 00:13:43,319 Speaker 3: he suffered immensely in that space, you know, and there 261 00:13:43,400 --> 00:13:50,800 Speaker 3: was some really objective discussions around potentially shifting from Fozzy 262 00:13:50,840 --> 00:13:55,400 Speaker 3: to the next group. Razor had already been sitting in 263 00:13:55,440 --> 00:13:59,800 Speaker 3: the wings with his highly successful Cannaby Crusaders Rain. 264 00:14:01,240 --> 00:14:01,440 Speaker 1: You know. 265 00:14:01,480 --> 00:14:04,840 Speaker 3: But there's a step to the international standard and the 266 00:14:04,920 --> 00:14:07,319 Speaker 3: News and Rugby Union made the decision to do that 267 00:14:08,520 --> 00:14:11,040 Speaker 3: based on a whole raft of factors, and we don't 268 00:14:11,080 --> 00:14:14,079 Speaker 3: often see those, but we see the end product, which 269 00:14:14,120 --> 00:14:15,920 Speaker 3: is what runs out the tunnel and delivers it on 270 00:14:15,960 --> 00:14:19,320 Speaker 3: a weekly basis. And also as importantly, how well these 271 00:14:19,360 --> 00:14:24,880 Speaker 3: men conduct themselves in the community. And you know, Raises 272 00:14:25,160 --> 00:14:29,920 Speaker 3: a cultural person who's innovative and keeps trying to find 273 00:14:29,960 --> 00:14:33,960 Speaker 3: ways for players and teams to connect, and he respects 274 00:14:34,000 --> 00:14:36,800 Speaker 3: that All Black Jersey people will argue, maybe we're giving 275 00:14:36,880 --> 00:14:40,880 Speaker 3: him longer time because of his super rugby success than 276 00:14:40,920 --> 00:14:42,080 Speaker 3: we did to Ian Foster. 277 00:14:43,160 --> 00:14:46,400 Speaker 1: Well, to me, it's probably too soon. 278 00:14:47,040 --> 00:14:52,680 Speaker 3: But you know, if a team continues to show weaknesses 279 00:14:53,160 --> 00:14:56,920 Speaker 3: and poor performances, you know over a calendar year, I 280 00:14:56,920 --> 00:14:59,360 Speaker 3: think you're better to always ascertain at the back end, 281 00:14:59,360 --> 00:15:02,360 Speaker 3: have a strong you do it in the right way, 282 00:15:02,440 --> 00:15:04,080 Speaker 3: and then say well, hey, look, you know, is this 283 00:15:04,840 --> 00:15:06,800 Speaker 3: group is this leader the one to take us through 284 00:15:06,840 --> 00:15:08,960 Speaker 3: to twenty twenty seven because we've still got some time here. 285 00:15:09,880 --> 00:15:12,200 Speaker 3: You know, Quis are like, we're pretty hard when it 286 00:15:12,240 --> 00:15:15,000 Speaker 3: comes to pointing the finger. I mean, look at Nolan 287 00:15:15,120 --> 00:15:18,920 Speaker 3: told her, and I don't for one minute understand what 288 00:15:19,080 --> 00:15:23,520 Speaker 3: happened there. But you know, she went from being you know, 289 00:15:23,760 --> 00:15:27,760 Speaker 3: Dame Nolean to being someone who's been moved out the side. 290 00:15:27,880 --> 00:15:29,320 Speaker 1: So they'll have their reasons. 291 00:15:29,640 --> 00:15:33,800 Speaker 2: It's tough, classic tall poppy syndrome. Hey, do you reckon 292 00:15:33,840 --> 00:15:37,440 Speaker 2: that all blacks have enough depth to take us into 293 00:15:37,440 --> 00:15:39,560 Speaker 2: twenty twenty seven or is that somewhere where we really 294 00:15:39,600 --> 00:15:40,240 Speaker 2: need to work on. 295 00:15:40,560 --> 00:15:42,760 Speaker 1: Oh, you hit the nail on the head. 296 00:15:42,920 --> 00:15:45,560 Speaker 3: You know, that's one of the biggest concerns for me 297 00:15:45,640 --> 00:15:49,240 Speaker 3: because you often hear RASI Erasmus, and I thought they 298 00:15:49,280 --> 00:15:51,920 Speaker 3: actually conducted themselves pretty well on the weekend with the victory, 299 00:15:51,960 --> 00:15:54,280 Speaker 3: because that had a bit of stuff shoved at them 300 00:15:54,640 --> 00:15:57,840 Speaker 3: over the last seven days prior to Wellington, and they 301 00:15:57,880 --> 00:15:58,800 Speaker 3: are very good at this. 302 00:15:59,160 --> 00:16:01,080 Speaker 1: That's mart with how they respond. 303 00:16:01,760 --> 00:16:03,960 Speaker 3: And one of the things that flowed through for me 304 00:16:04,120 --> 00:16:07,040 Speaker 3: really extensively was he talked about the squad of forty five, 305 00:16:07,400 --> 00:16:09,440 Speaker 3: and when he's talking about the squad of forty five, 306 00:16:09,480 --> 00:16:12,920 Speaker 3: he's not being pc that they have forty five players 307 00:16:12,920 --> 00:16:17,040 Speaker 3: who are humming to wear the Springbok jersey, and so 308 00:16:17,080 --> 00:16:20,680 Speaker 3: he's creating depth in every single position. And I'm not 309 00:16:20,840 --> 00:16:24,600 Speaker 3: convinced that we're in the same boat. I don't think 310 00:16:24,680 --> 00:16:28,280 Speaker 3: we have forty five. I'm not quite sure executly the 311 00:16:28,360 --> 00:16:31,360 Speaker 3: number of players who are in this awkabat all back camp. 312 00:16:31,360 --> 00:16:34,600 Speaker 3: I think it's about thirty two or thirty four, you know, 313 00:16:34,640 --> 00:16:37,680 Speaker 3: but forty five is three teams. So you're saying in 314 00:16:37,720 --> 00:16:41,320 Speaker 3: every position you're building and grooming and developing three players. 315 00:16:42,560 --> 00:16:44,720 Speaker 3: You know, we can look at some of the players 316 00:16:45,320 --> 00:16:46,240 Speaker 3: in our current team. 317 00:16:46,440 --> 00:16:47,040 Speaker 1: We look at our. 318 00:16:47,040 --> 00:16:50,280 Speaker 3: Nines, we get our tens, look at our midfielders, fullbacks. 319 00:16:50,520 --> 00:16:55,800 Speaker 3: You know, if we overlaid that forty five player process, 320 00:16:56,680 --> 00:16:58,720 Speaker 3: have we got three lined up in every spot and 321 00:16:58,760 --> 00:17:01,160 Speaker 3: obviously in the front road a few more because you've 322 00:17:01,160 --> 00:17:02,960 Speaker 3: got to even elucian and a tidy head prop. 323 00:17:03,840 --> 00:17:05,480 Speaker 1: So that's a challenge for us. 324 00:17:05,560 --> 00:17:07,960 Speaker 3: And look, there is a big gap between super rugby 325 00:17:07,960 --> 00:17:10,600 Speaker 3: and international rugby and that's where our players come from. 326 00:17:11,440 --> 00:17:13,320 Speaker 1: So how much of a layer are we going. 327 00:17:13,240 --> 00:17:16,040 Speaker 3: To pull through from super rugby to have our squad 328 00:17:16,040 --> 00:17:19,399 Speaker 3: at forty five doesn't have to be forty five, but 329 00:17:19,880 --> 00:17:23,760 Speaker 3: the context is around having more rather than less. 330 00:17:24,119 --> 00:17:26,199 Speaker 2: Thanks for joining us, Strawnie. 331 00:17:25,800 --> 00:17:27,520 Speaker 1: No worries, take care. 332 00:17:30,720 --> 00:17:33,960 Speaker 2: That's it for this episode of the Front Page. You 333 00:17:34,000 --> 00:17:37,880 Speaker 2: can read more about today's stories and extensive news coverage 334 00:17:37,920 --> 00:17:42,000 Speaker 2: at enzadherld dot co dot nz. The Front Page is 335 00:17:42,080 --> 00:17:45,480 Speaker 2: produced by Jane Ye and Richard Martin, who is also 336 00:17:45,680 --> 00:17:50,200 Speaker 2: our editor. I'm Chelsea Daniels. Subscribe to the Front Page 337 00:17:50,200 --> 00:17:53,840 Speaker 2: on iHeartRadio or wherever you get your podcasts, and tune 338 00:17:53,840 --> 00:17:56,880 Speaker 2: in tomorrow for another look behind the headlines.