1 00:00:00,120 --> 00:00:03,040 Speaker 1: Now change in education continues with news that schools will 2 00:00:03,080 --> 00:00:05,480 Speaker 1: now be able to apply for money to build some walls. 3 00:00:05,760 --> 00:00:07,480 Speaker 1: This is the weirdest thing, so they can have proper 4 00:00:07,520 --> 00:00:10,079 Speaker 1: classrooms instead of these barns that they currently operate in. 5 00:00:10,160 --> 00:00:13,160 Speaker 1: The open learning classroom era is over, as Erica Stamford 6 00:00:13,160 --> 00:00:15,800 Speaker 1: has announced previously. Of course, Katherine Law is the principal 7 00:00:15,800 --> 00:00:18,360 Speaker 1: at aben Side Gills High in christ Church and is 8 00:00:18,360 --> 00:00:19,640 Speaker 1: with us. Catherine, morning to you. 9 00:00:20,320 --> 00:00:21,880 Speaker 2: Oh, good morning, Mike, how this morning? 10 00:00:21,960 --> 00:00:25,120 Speaker 1: Well? Thank you? As a thing, these barn like classrooms 11 00:00:25,160 --> 00:00:28,160 Speaker 1: as a thing, as an exercise tenant was perfect. Couldn't 12 00:00:28,160 --> 00:00:30,960 Speaker 1: have wanted anything better. One that's been a disaster. What's 13 00:00:31,000 --> 00:00:31,440 Speaker 1: your number? 14 00:00:32,200 --> 00:00:34,680 Speaker 2: Oh, probably a two, Mike. I mean, there'd be in 15 00:00:34,720 --> 00:00:36,720 Speaker 2: a few bits that we would want to keep. You know, 16 00:00:36,760 --> 00:00:40,440 Speaker 2: there's always some things that work and you think, oh, yeah, 17 00:00:40,440 --> 00:00:44,320 Speaker 2: that's a good aspect, like some breakout spaces things like that, 18 00:00:44,360 --> 00:00:45,599 Speaker 2: But definitely a too. 19 00:00:45,800 --> 00:00:48,879 Speaker 1: Widely accepted in education that it was a mistake or 20 00:00:48,880 --> 00:00:50,360 Speaker 1: would there still be some defenders. 21 00:00:51,440 --> 00:00:54,480 Speaker 2: I think there are some defenders, and but I think 22 00:00:54,560 --> 00:00:58,160 Speaker 2: you know, if you looked at the majority of people 23 00:00:58,200 --> 00:01:01,040 Speaker 2: in education, they would say widely, even to be a mistake, 24 00:01:01,080 --> 00:01:03,120 Speaker 2: and certainly research back set up. 25 00:01:03,400 --> 00:01:07,160 Speaker 1: What do you reckon in your expert opinion? Have the 26 00:01:07,240 --> 00:01:10,959 Speaker 1: lack of walls done to a kid's education if you 27 00:01:11,440 --> 00:01:13,400 Speaker 1: toss it in the mix of all the other things 28 00:01:13,480 --> 00:01:15,440 Speaker 1: you're having to deal with in terms of you know, 29 00:01:15,560 --> 00:01:18,200 Speaker 1: teaching a kid you know how to succeed. 30 00:01:18,959 --> 00:01:22,360 Speaker 2: Yeah, absolutely, Mike. It came at a time when other 31 00:01:22,440 --> 00:01:24,800 Speaker 2: things came in as well, so an ideological time when 32 00:01:25,120 --> 00:01:30,319 Speaker 2: you know, open playing classrooms, students centered learning, inquiry based learning. 33 00:01:30,800 --> 00:01:33,280 Speaker 2: And what all of those things did together was they 34 00:01:33,280 --> 00:01:36,319 Speaker 2: were sort of perfect storm in which we suddenly had 35 00:01:36,560 --> 00:01:39,839 Speaker 2: seventy students together in a classroom, everybody working on projects. 36 00:01:40,920 --> 00:01:44,400 Speaker 2: And what we lost was the real importance of relationships 37 00:01:44,480 --> 00:01:48,040 Speaker 2: with students. We lost the importance of routines, we lost 38 00:01:48,040 --> 00:01:51,960 Speaker 2: sort of emotional safety. And what we gained was a 39 00:01:52,040 --> 00:01:54,560 Speaker 2: whole lot of young people who are you know, our 40 00:01:54,600 --> 00:01:57,560 Speaker 2: PIESA results show, other results show haven't learnt very much. 41 00:01:57,840 --> 00:02:01,280 Speaker 2: But also you know, if if you're coming in with trauma, 42 00:02:01,400 --> 00:02:04,440 Speaker 2: if you're in neurodiverse, you know, lots of students, for 43 00:02:04,560 --> 00:02:06,440 Speaker 2: lots of students, this is not a success. 44 00:02:06,840 --> 00:02:08,960 Speaker 1: How much money do you need for your walls. 45 00:02:09,840 --> 00:02:11,639 Speaker 2: Oh, if we could get one and a half million, 46 00:02:11,680 --> 00:02:13,880 Speaker 2: which on the scale of building a school, you know, 47 00:02:14,200 --> 00:02:16,000 Speaker 2: I mean, we're not talking about a new school here, 48 00:02:16,320 --> 00:02:18,000 Speaker 2: but if we could get a million to a million 49 00:02:18,000 --> 00:02:21,040 Speaker 2: and a half, we could do so much at Avonside 50 00:02:21,280 --> 00:02:24,600 Speaker 2: to improve achievement and attendance and to improve teaching and 51 00:02:24,680 --> 00:02:25,600 Speaker 2: learning for our young people. 52 00:02:25,720 --> 00:02:28,400 Speaker 1: When you sign a million and a half, that's your school, 53 00:02:28,520 --> 00:02:31,840 Speaker 1: and there are hundreds of schools and there's thousands of walls, 54 00:02:31,919 --> 00:02:32,560 Speaker 1: and it's like. 55 00:02:32,720 --> 00:02:38,160 Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. But the point is, do you 56 00:02:38,360 --> 00:02:41,240 Speaker 2: do that now? Do you invest now and get that sorted? 57 00:02:41,639 --> 00:02:43,519 Speaker 2: Because these are the young people who are going to 58 00:02:43,600 --> 00:02:45,560 Speaker 2: run our country. They're going to they're going to need 59 00:02:45,600 --> 00:02:49,040 Speaker 2: good education. And we're bringing a new curriculum. We've got 60 00:02:49,120 --> 00:02:51,720 Speaker 2: all sorts of changing, all sorts of things changing, But 61 00:02:51,760 --> 00:02:54,239 Speaker 2: we know we know so much more about how students learn, 62 00:02:55,200 --> 00:02:57,440 Speaker 2: and we know so much more about trauma inform practice. 63 00:02:57,440 --> 00:02:59,200 Speaker 2: So why would we not invest now? 64 00:03:00,520 --> 00:03:02,160 Speaker 1: Were you one of the principles who wrote to Erika 65 00:03:02,200 --> 00:03:04,680 Speaker 1: Stanford the other day not wanting these changes? 66 00:03:05,040 --> 00:03:08,320 Speaker 2: By the way, no, I wasn't nae good. 67 00:03:08,200 --> 00:03:09,799 Speaker 1: And we'll get you back on the program. In that case, 68 00:03:10,040 --> 00:03:11,800 Speaker 1: nice to talk to you, Katherine Catherine Law, who's the 69 00:03:11,800 --> 00:03:15,160 Speaker 1: principal of Abnside Girls high eighty nine out of four 70 00:03:15,240 --> 00:03:18,079 Speaker 1: hundred and twenty. Let's get a headline. For more from 71 00:03:18,080 --> 00:03:21,200 Speaker 1: the Mic Asking Breakfast, listen live to news talks it'd 72 00:03:21,200 --> 00:03:25,040 Speaker 1: be from six am weekdays, or follow the podcast on iHeartRadio.