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Speaker 1: Monday morning, the Prime Minister's with us, very good morning

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Speaker 1: to you. What you could about you? Would you appear

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Speaker 1: hand on heart? Would you appear publicly at the COVID inquiry?

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Speaker 1: If call, yeah, I would, Yeah, I would.

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Speaker 2: I mean, I think I think New Zealanders have gone

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Speaker 2: through a huge amount of suffering. You know, those ministers,

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Speaker 2: former minister's premises should show up at that inquiry. I

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Speaker 2: think you know what you saw last week with the

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Speaker 2: Treasury report saying you know, we were the second largest

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Speaker 2: stimulitary country on Earth. It created and made the cost

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Speaker 2: of living worse, and it certainly affected our future fiscal track.

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Speaker 2: I think New Zealanders have done a huge amount of

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Speaker 2: pain and suffering because of the actions of the previous government.

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Speaker 2: But I'll be honest with you, I get what they're

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Speaker 2: trying to do. You know, if you're hipkins, you're trying

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Speaker 2: to politically guess like the country and say you had

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Speaker 2: nothing to do with that record. Well you did, so

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Speaker 2: I think they should show but frankly, ultimate it's their

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Speaker 2: call and I've got to now fix it. So that's

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Speaker 2: what I'm focused on.

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Speaker 1: Grant Robinson says, it's a show trial, is it?

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Speaker 2: I disagree. I think it's something called accountability, and I

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Speaker 2: think showing up and actually giving the justification for way

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Speaker 2: you took the actions you did that ultimately I think

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Speaker 2: made the cost of living worse. Actually I think caused

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Speaker 2: huge suffer for lower middle income New Zealanders in particular.

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Speaker 2: Actually they need to be called to account on that.

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Speaker 2: But ultimately their.

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Speaker 1: Called who is the bigger hypocrite, Dune and Robertson because

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Speaker 1: they're no longer accountable, or Hopkins and Verril, who are well.

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Speaker 2: I think you know, Hopkins are Vera making a case

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Speaker 2: they want to leave the country again, and I think

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Speaker 2: it'll be a disaster, but I think they should at

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Speaker 2: least show up and actually front. But again, you know,

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Speaker 2: it's their decision. And I just say, you know, I

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Speaker 2: get what they're trying to do politically. If you're Chris Haipkins,

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Speaker 2: you want to get out from under the rock, which

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Speaker 2: is your last record when you're in government, where the

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Speaker 2: economy got worse, you know, Lauren order God worse, health

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Speaker 2: and education got worse. I get it. He wants to

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Speaker 2: gas light and just move on from that pass. But

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Speaker 2: I think you should front.

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Speaker 1: Do you know what they're paying Dentons or what the

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Speaker 1: taxpayer is paying Dentons in terms of legal representation, No idea.

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Speaker 1: Will that come up at some point somewhere. Where does

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Speaker 1: that money come from? Is that in the leader of

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Speaker 1: the old comes out of a budget.

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Speaker 2: I think there's a long standing convention that if governments

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Speaker 2: are former ministers from previous governments, a sort of I

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Speaker 2: have to go forward on any you know, incurr any

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Speaker 2: legal costs for claims like this, it's picked up by

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Speaker 2: the taxpayer. So that's that's quite normal convention.

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Speaker 1: Okay, speaking money for the taxpayer. The break fee on

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Speaker 1: the Interro Islander. Is that negotiable or will it change

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Speaker 1: in any way if the company concerned happens to end

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Speaker 1: up with the tender. No.

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Speaker 2: I think this is a final net what we owe them,

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Speaker 2: irrespective of what comes next. It's a lot cheaper. It's

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Speaker 2: one hundred and forty five million dollars. It's a lot

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Speaker 2: cheaper than what people were saying at three hundred million dollars.

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Speaker 2: I think Winston's saying, a really good job to negotiate

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Speaker 2: a way out of that. It sounds a bit counterintuitive

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Speaker 2: to everybody because you basically had this I REX project

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Speaker 2: that was seven hundred and seventy five million blew out

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Speaker 2: to three point two on its way to four. We

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Speaker 2: had to deal with it in the second or third

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Speaker 2: week of a new government and get it right sized. Yes,

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Speaker 2: there's some brake fees and some sunk costs that you've

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Speaker 2: got to swallow and deal with, but the total total

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Speaker 2: investment we're going to make is going to be a

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Speaker 2: hell of a lot less than three point two.

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Speaker 1: So you're going to end up with So if you're

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Speaker 1: totally at four billion and so with the brake fees,

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Speaker 1: in fact, the total fees with the infrastructre stuff came

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Speaker 1: to something like half a billion already, So between them

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Speaker 1: half a billion dollars plus whatever you buy a significantly

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Speaker 1: to correct.

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Speaker 2: Correct, and we will get a great solution for the

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Speaker 2: cook straight, very pragmatic, very practical, very for purpose. We'll

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Speaker 2: get the infrastructure at both ends sorted and actually Winstance

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Speaker 2: doing a great job. I think it's just cleaning that

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Speaker 2: up and getting that sorted.

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Speaker 1: So Nicola Willis is in the UK. Was in the UK.

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Speaker 1: She's talking to Bloomberger. You're telling Bloomberg more about Winston

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Speaker 1: and his movement on foreign buyers, buying houses than we've

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Speaker 1: been told here in New Zealand.

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Speaker 2: I know you have afflicted me every week on that one,

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Speaker 2: and we are weeks away from that one, and so

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Speaker 2: I'll have more to say about that.

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Speaker 1: When you say we're weeks away, What do you mean

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Speaker 1: by that it goes She said it's going to cabinet

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Speaker 1: in the next couple of weeks. Does she mean it's

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Speaker 1: going to cabinet in the next couple of weeks because

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Speaker 1: we've got a deal, we'll put it in cabinet, they'll

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Speaker 1: take it off and then we'll make the announcement.

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Speaker 2: Yes.

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Speaker 1: Correct, So the deal as of this morning is essentially done.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, there were there were process working its way through

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Speaker 2: cabinet because there's actually regulation, legislation involved and overturning it.

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Speaker 2: So you've actually got an a think through the pole,

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Speaker 2: get the thinking straight, and then you've actually got to

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Speaker 2: take it to cabinet and then obviously then draft a

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Speaker 2: piece of legislation.

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Speaker 1: Then you know when will it be done as in legislation,

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Speaker 1: cabinet go as.

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Speaker 2: Fast as we possibly can. I think it'll be one

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Speaker 2: of those things you'd want to do under under urgency

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Speaker 2: and go through it.

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Speaker 1: Yes, absolutely, Okay, So as you sit here talking to

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Speaker 1: me this morning, there was actually an agreement between you

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Speaker 1: and Peter's. Yeah, we've got we've got a.

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Speaker 2: Proposal which we take to cabinet obviously a final decisions

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Speaker 2: made sure, and that's taking it.

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Speaker 1: To cabinet today.

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Speaker 2: Well, well we're taking we're taking in the next few weeks.

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Speaker 1: I would have thought it was way more more urgent

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Speaker 1: than that. Well, there's a lot that goes through cabinet.

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Speaker 2: There's a lot of things for us to discuss, but

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Speaker 2: we've got we've got the we've got a paper which

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Speaker 2: we'll then go forward from here where you then make

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Speaker 2: the final decision in cabinet.

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Speaker 1: The electricity Authority last week and out some sort of

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Speaker 1: investigation into the industry and pricing and stuff like that.

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Speaker 1: It is claimed in part anyway, a bunch of users

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Speaker 1: wrote to you and said, we're sick and tired of this,

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Speaker 1: have a look at it. Is that what drove it?

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Speaker 2: Well, I think there's everyone's frustrated with electricity, right, I mean,

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Speaker 2: what we're seeing is it's a big contributor to the

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Speaker 2: cost of living and inflation. Particularly. It's actually the transmission

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Speaker 2: part of it that's led to the increase in electricity.

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Speaker 2: Everyone's got a letter from their gen Taylor that sort

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Speaker 2: of says prices are going up. That's really the piece

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Speaker 2: that's been the expensive part, the transmission piece. Look, what

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Speaker 2: we've had to do here is there's quite a few

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Speaker 2: aur venues to what's happening in our energy market at

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Speaker 2: the moment. I mean, the first thing was this oil

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Speaker 2: and gas band reversal, which we did two weeks ago,

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Speaker 2: has been good. We've got two hundred million dollars set

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Speaker 2: aside so we can get gas, which actually is necessary

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Speaker 2: for us. We've also put a strategic coal reserve together

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Speaker 2: so that actually you know, if it's going to be

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Speaker 2: driverer or scare, we've actually don't have our prices going

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Speaker 2: through the roof. All of that's just starting to calm

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Speaker 2: it down a lot than what it has been, and

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Speaker 2: that actually projects forward pricing quite well. Other people know that.

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Speaker 1: The reason they asked the question is where were they

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Speaker 1: last year? If the people write to you and they

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Speaker 1: suddenly go, hell, we better be seen to be doing something.

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Speaker 1: Where were they last year when it was really bad?

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Speaker 2: Well, last year was really bad?

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Speaker 1: I mean, well, what do they do on the wide

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Speaker 1: I mean.

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Speaker 2: The wholesale electricity prices last year getting up to I

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Speaker 2: think even up to fifteen hundred dollars fifteen times.

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Speaker 1: It doesn't stringy one at the electricity authority go jeez,

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Speaker 1: I wonder if we might want to look at this.

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Speaker 2: We'd have to ask them. All I can do is

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Speaker 2: I know that there's several components to the energy market

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Speaker 2: that I have to get fax. One is I have

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Speaker 2: to have certainty of supply so we can't have an

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Speaker 2: issue where the lights get turned off like we were

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Speaker 2: experiencing last year and people start losing their jobs. That's

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Speaker 2: about having a coal reserve. People don't like that. People

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Speaker 2: can be a lot of grief about that. But I'm sorry,

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Speaker 2: but actually low prices are much more important than sort

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Speaker 2: of managing emissions at this point in time.

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Speaker 1: That is true. Having seid all of that water done well.

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Speaker 1: This is my next concern ongoing. So there are a

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Speaker 1: number of councils in the country who have been written

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Speaker 1: to by the Internal Affairs Department that the smaller councils

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Speaker 1: they've decided to go it alone. The Internal Affairs have

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Speaker 1: written and gone that doesn't look good enough to us. Yep,

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Speaker 1: what if they go it alone and it all goes

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Speaker 1: tits up.

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Speaker 2: Well again, you know, their plans have to get signed

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Speaker 2: off by the minister. That was part of the deal

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Speaker 2: with the legislation, so they've got to the first of

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Speaker 2: September to get their proposals together. There are some really

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Speaker 2: good examples where councils are collaborating really well and actually

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Speaker 2: putting together proper management of those assets. I think it's interesting,

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Speaker 2: Like the best example was actually all Clantier. I remember

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Speaker 2: when Wayne Brown was proposing a twenty four percent rate rise,

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Speaker 2: and then we put water Care into a different asset structure.

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Speaker 2: It's not sexy stuff, but a different entity and as

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Speaker 2: a result, it could borrow better for long run assets.

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Speaker 2: And the actually rates went up six percent or six

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Speaker 2: or seven percent or so last year, and that freed

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Speaker 2: up eight hundred million dollars from the council's budget to

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Speaker 2: spend on other infrastructure rather than worry about three waters.

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Speaker 2: So that structure is the right way to go.

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Speaker 1: My concern is though, that so internal revenue, internal affair

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Speaker 1: is right to them. So we don't like the look

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Speaker 1: of it. The Minister will go because of that. You're

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Speaker 1: not allowed to.

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Speaker 2: Be He has powers to make interventions to make sure

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Speaker 2: that they are going to run those assets and manage

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Speaker 2: them properly and that financially they'll be able to manage that.

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Speaker 2: And if he's not assured on both those points.

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Speaker 1: So what will they do? What will the council who

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Speaker 1: wants to go it alone do when the minister goes,

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Speaker 1: you can't do that as the minister then go you

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Speaker 1: need to buddy up with councils, right, so correct so

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Speaker 1: they tell you what to do. So really it's Hobson's choice,

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Speaker 1: isn't it. There's no choice, you know, you do.

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Speaker 2: We want these assets managed properly. That's the problem. They

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Speaker 2: haven't been run properly. I mean, you've got perverse situations

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Speaker 2: where you got council's increasing rates for what's called operating

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Speaker 2: expenditure to pay out on capital expenditure, which is building

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Speaker 2: out pipes and stuff like that. So we're just saying, look,

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Speaker 2: we've got to professionally manage these assets. I think the

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Speaker 2: vast majority of councils are getting there. There's been some

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Speaker 2: really good examples, and it's difficult because district councils are

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Speaker 2: having to actually collaborate on this stuff, having to collaborate

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Speaker 2: on regional and city deals. That's all a good thing

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Speaker 2: because there's a lot of duplication. As you can see

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Speaker 2: today we're going to announce the building code authorities, which

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Speaker 2: are there's a gazillion of them. Actually they can merge

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Speaker 2: those together as well, so the more experience they yet

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Speaker 2: actually working together as subregions of New Zealand and doing

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Speaker 2: it from the grassroots up on three waters, on regional plans,

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Speaker 2: on building bas is actually good stuff.

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Speaker 1: You mentioned Wayane Brown has tax, it goes, doesn't even

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Speaker 1: cost you anything. Do you give them a bed tax

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Speaker 1: or do you worry about the broader picture in this

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Speaker 1: country that the more expensive you make it to come

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Speaker 1: to New Zealand. Did a country already.

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Speaker 2: Worried about just adding a new tax? Now is not

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Speaker 2: the time for a tax. We have to get the

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Speaker 2: show growing and growth is really where we've got to

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Speaker 2: focus on. Yes, we've got a bed tax is actually

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Speaker 2: quite an interesting idea. It's not something I'm going to

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Speaker 2: look at this term. It's not something we're considering at all.

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Speaker 2: But for where we are in this cycle where people

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Speaker 2: are doing it tough, another tax ain't the way forward.

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Speaker 1: The Supreme Court and the river bed decision last week.

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Speaker 1: Does that in any way, shape or form change what

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Speaker 1: you're doing around foreshore?

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Speaker 2: And see, I saw that legislation come that, that ruling

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Speaker 2: come through I think on Thursday or Friday Friday, and

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Speaker 2: will take a bit of time to digest that and

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Speaker 2: understand that. As you know, on the Macha side, we've decided,

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Speaker 2: after digesting the last Supreme Court ruling on the seat

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Speaker 2: on the coastal areas, for us to go back into

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Speaker 2: Parliament and actually pass the law to make it back

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Speaker 2: to what its original intent was, which was the balance

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Speaker 2: customer right and also the rights of all Newlanders.

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Speaker 1: Has Amanda knowing you in your entire married life to

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Speaker 1: be as bad at dancing as.

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Speaker 2: You were, mates, I've got rhythm. I went to the

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Speaker 2: pepper Nui Asa when it was school ball season in

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Speaker 2: Langdon's Road, christ Church, and that lady at the instructing

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Speaker 2: us told me that I had rhythm. And I believe

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Speaker 2: that ever.

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Speaker 1: Since you sat with a straight face. Yeah she did.

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Speaker 2: I think she genuinely thought I haven't seen so much

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Speaker 2: rhythm in one individual for so long.

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Speaker 1: Nice to see you, Prime Minister Christopher Lux for more

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Speaker 1: from the mic, asking Breakfast. Listen live to news talks

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Speaker 1: it'd be from six am weekdays, or follow the podcast

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Speaker 1: on iHeartRadio