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Speaker 1: The Prime Minister joint is Good morning to you. Morning, Mike.

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Speaker 2: How are you.

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Speaker 1: I'm very well. Indeed, I would, at the risk of

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Speaker 1: being overtly political, I'd like to congratulate you on what

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Speaker 1: you did last week, because I read a lot about it,

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Speaker 1: and what everyone seemed to agree on was it was exhausting.

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Speaker 1: There was very little downtime, and I noted in your

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Speaker 1: boys by at the end of it you could barely speak,

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Speaker 1: so it seems to have been a success. Yeah, Look,

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Speaker 1: it was a really great week.

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Speaker 2: Mic. Come in, you come away from a place like India, going, man,

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Speaker 2: there's so much opportunity. I mean, this is a country

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Speaker 2: it doesn't You can debate their growth rates and whether

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Speaker 2: it's enough and all that sort of stuff, but the

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Speaker 2: bottom line is, you know, man, in the next twenty

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Speaker 2: thirty fifty years, this place is going to go from

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Speaker 2: low to middle income and it's working hard to get

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Speaker 2: to higher income. And there's just you got four hundred

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Speaker 2: and fifty five million people sitting in the middle class

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Speaker 2: there that actually have a huge amount from his own.

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Speaker 1: Products and services.

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Speaker 2: So and you know, you've got a population of size

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Speaker 2: bigger than China, and yet we've got probably one twentieth

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Speaker 2: of the trade being done with India, so I was

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Speaker 2: really pleased. We had a really good connection with Prome,

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Speaker 2: Minister Modi on very well that we did some extra

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Speaker 2: stuff together which was great than planned. We managed to

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Speaker 2: launch the comprehensive FTA. That'll be a pretty tough conversation now,

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Speaker 2: but we will do the best deal we can for

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Speaker 2: New Zealand. And then yeah, we just we had a

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Speaker 2: good community business delegation who made some good connections to you,

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Speaker 2: which was great. So no, really, it's just a good

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Speaker 2: reminder Mike, somebody you can get out of the bubble

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Speaker 2: and go out in the world and actually feel man,

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Speaker 2: there's no reason we should be thinking opportunity, not problem.

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Speaker 1: Quite correct. So you're doing that, Peters is doing rubio

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Speaker 1: and then you come back home to a pole that's

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Speaker 1: got you. I can't remember the number. Is that one

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Speaker 1: of those issues polls that everyone hates you anyway? So

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Speaker 1: is that deflating?

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Speaker 2: Well, I didn't come to politics four years ago to

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Speaker 2: worry about Poles. I came here to get the things

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Speaker 2: sorted and faxed it on the right track.

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Speaker 1: So you know, I know what my mission and.

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Speaker 2: Purposes, which is yep, it's tough for Kiwi's yep, they

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Speaker 2: want us to go faster. People like you keep pushing

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Speaker 2: me to go even faster and faster. I get it.

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Speaker 2: We've got some good things starting to happen. I mean,

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Speaker 2: we are starting to the turn the corner.

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Speaker 1: I reckon.

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Speaker 2: I mean, you saw the GDP numbers up in the

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Speaker 2: fourth quarter last year. That's a year after taking government.

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Speaker 2: You've seen interest rates come down. We're expecting another cuts

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Speaker 2: in April and May. You're seeing inflation get under control.

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Speaker 2: I mean, I don't know when you saw the numbers

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Speaker 2: out of the primary sector, but you know, dairy's looking great.

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Speaker 2: Red and meat us talking to Nathan guy the other day,

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Speaker 2: they reckon there's another one point two billion in red

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Speaker 2: meat this year. Even the wool guys have been in

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Speaker 2: really a lot of pain. You know, they're doing a

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Speaker 2: lot better this year. So you know, agriculture's looking good.

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Speaker 2: Services and manufacturing group the first time. Recently, tourism's up

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Speaker 2: twenty three percent, So it's coming. It's coming. I know

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Speaker 2: that's hard for people to hear, and it is really

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Speaker 2: difficult and it's frustrating, but my god, this is what

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Speaker 2: happens when you inherit a hell of a mess.

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Speaker 1: From that, and I've got to fix it, can you.

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Speaker 1: I know what you announced yesterday and I applaud you

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Speaker 1: for that as well, as long as something comes off,

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Speaker 1: because the announcements on RAMA are more folsome than the

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Speaker 1: results on RMI. Tell me how you can have a

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Speaker 1: wind farm. The wind farm was rejected under the previous

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Speaker 1: government's fast Train I know what you're talking about it right,

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Speaker 1: How is it you can't have a renewable facility under

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Speaker 1: fast I mean, what do you need to do well?

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Speaker 2: I mean, first of all, that's under Parker's old fast

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Speaker 2: track provisions, which that one I can't come on this

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Speaker 2: specific project. But what I will say is like that

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Speaker 2: was insanely stupid. And I mean what we've got under

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Speaker 2: our fast tracked legislation because our priority is on economic

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Speaker 2: growth that trumps everything, and I know people give me

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Speaker 2: grief on that, but I'm sorry. We are over it

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Speaker 2: and we have to grow.

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Speaker 1: And so.

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Speaker 2: Our our priority and fast track legislation is what's going

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Speaker 2: to drive economic growth regionally or nationally. Projects of that

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Speaker 2: should be approved. We need more wind farms in this country.

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Speaker 2: That was a great location for it, you know, let's

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Speaker 2: see what happens next with that project.

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Speaker 1: Okay, but then you've got these issues. For example, the

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Speaker 1: Council's stopping the clock on building is one, and the

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Speaker 1: Fungal Ray Court decision that came out yesterday on flu

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Speaker 1: rider is another. How much resistance are you facing from

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Speaker 1: people who will use every mechanism possible to stall you,

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Speaker 1: slow you and run their own agenda.

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Speaker 2: Well when we're pretty clear right about it or i am,

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Speaker 2: which is that we're facing a massive culture in New

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Speaker 2: Zealand of no. Everyone gets to weaponize the RMA, everyone

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Speaker 2: gets to say no to everything, everyone gets a comment

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Speaker 2: on everything, even if it's on people's own property rights.

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Speaker 2: So you know, the council stuff's classic. I mean, Chris

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Speaker 2: Penkas for some reporting, they're supposed to know a pre

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Speaker 2: building consents I think within twenty days buying large up

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Speaker 2: and down the country, and then what happens is they

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Speaker 2: issue a request for more information about your deck bracing

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Speaker 2: or whatever it is that they're trying to get a

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Speaker 2: building consent for, and then it gets stalled out and

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Speaker 2: it's insanely stupid. I mean, it now takes us nineteen

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Speaker 2: months to build as standard three to four bedroom house

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Speaker 2: in this country and it's fifty percent more expensive than Australia,

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Speaker 2: forget the land. So you know we have we've got

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Speaker 2: housing crisis. But either you choose to get to the

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Speaker 2: root cause the problem, which is this stuff. I know

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Speaker 2: it's insanely frustrating and it's bureaucracy and it's just treacy,

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Speaker 2: but we have to keep pushing against it. And that's

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Speaker 2: why we're saying, look self certification of builders, certainly about

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Speaker 2: embracing overseas products. The RMA reforms that we're going to do.

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Speaker 2: I mean RMA has been religion for the last twenty

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Speaker 2: years or so and just end us whittering and talking

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Speaker 2: about it. But we've whacked and fast tracked within the

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Speaker 2: first few weeks we kicked that off, get into government

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Speaker 2: that's working well or will work well, and then the

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Speaker 2: RMA reforms with out yesterday is we're going to have

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Speaker 2: legislation in the House by the end of this year.

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Speaker 2: I mean normally it goes on for years, like decades,

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Speaker 2: and you know the last lot made changes under Parker

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Speaker 2: and the implementation was over a ten year period. I

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Speaker 2: mean you can't have that. We've got simplified. We have

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Speaker 2: to simplified planning laws big time to make things, get

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Speaker 2: things done. So but you're right, there's just I mean,

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Speaker 2: there's just a culture of no. And that's what I

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Speaker 2: said earlier in the year. We have to fight that

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Speaker 2: and say let's start with yes and then then work

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Speaker 2: from there, not not no, which is what's been happening.

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Speaker 1: So another example was o ring A Tomariki. So the

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Speaker 1: under the previous government literally literally know when got evicted.

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Speaker 1: So the rules change and they can so they start

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Speaker 1: new people. And yet the other day you want to

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Speaker 1: go because you're an Indian. But anyway, there's a case

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Speaker 1: I tom Rooki go to the tendency Tribune. All this

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Speaker 1: bloke's dealing drugs. You're shooting people. Literally this is kayang Ariam.

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Speaker 1: Sorry sorry, my apologies coming ah. And so's there is

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Speaker 1: there's gun violences, threats, less drugs as the usual thing. Anyway,

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Speaker 1: there's a listening of stuff against the bloke. The tenancy

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Speaker 1: tribunal goes, no, he can stay because you haven't proved

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Speaker 1: any of it. I mean, you know that's what you're

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Speaker 1: up against. So you go, yep, shouldn't thrush. So what

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Speaker 1: do you do?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, well, you got to keep pushing and having that fight.

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Speaker 2: I mean, you know, we started that fight again early

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Speaker 2: on and when we first came to power around you know,

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Speaker 2: Chrisship did a good job on that around unruly tenants.

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Speaker 2: There have been endless complaints and I think three people

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Speaker 2: or something ridiculous evicted from from Crown government houses. These

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Speaker 2: are houses that your taxpayer colleagues citizens are paying for

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Speaker 2: you in a tough time to get a state house.

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Speaker 2: And if you don't treat it with respect, there's twenty

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Speaker 2: thousand people on the wait lists who desperate would love

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Speaker 2: to go at having a stay.

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Speaker 1: But you say that you'll agree. But by the time

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Speaker 1: you get to the tenancy tribunal, Brian's there going, oh no,

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Speaker 1: you didn't prove it, so he can stay. So the

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Speaker 1: problem is not solved, is it.

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Speaker 2: No, But then you've got to you've got to keep

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Speaker 2: pushing at it, and you've got to keep taking on

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Speaker 2: the It's a cultural problem we've got right in New Zealand.

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Speaker 2: We are culturally saying no to stuff and finding excuses

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Speaker 2: for stuff, and we've actually got to push back on

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Speaker 2: the culture and when we need to, as we've been

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Speaker 2: trying to do, then you're rushing through a lot of

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Speaker 2: legislation under urgency to come in over the top say

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Speaker 2: we know this is what we are going to do

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Speaker 2: in this country. This is the law of the land

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Speaker 2: and we expect it to be upheld. But that notion

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Speaker 2: whether it's been I've faced the same challenge on benefit sanctions. Right,

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Speaker 2: I'm sorry, but if you're not out there looking for

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Speaker 2: a job, which is your job, you're not going to

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Speaker 2: get a resume together, you're not showing up to interviews,

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Speaker 2: you're not many with your case manager, then we are

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Speaker 2: sanctioning your benefits. Now, that's rights and responsibilities. That's a

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Speaker 2: culture that we had growing up in New Zealand we

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Speaker 2: need to put back into the country again. And that's

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Speaker 2: where a lot of this gets into. Its culture of

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Speaker 2: rights and responsibilities, and it's a culture of yes not no.

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Speaker 1: I was reading Niicola Willis has got the red flag

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Speaker 1: up at the moment on the cost of servicing debt.

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Speaker 1: How worried are you it will approach in the middle

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Speaker 1: of next year eleven billion dollars on the interest. It's

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Speaker 1: gone from ten to eleven billion dollars just to service

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Speaker 1: and interests, and you're still not running surpluses. So you're

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Speaker 1: adding to it. How big handbreak is that on success looks?

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Speaker 2: It's really hard. I mean, you know, you know the story,

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Speaker 2: but it's one of the things I don't think the

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Speaker 2: public have registered from the last lot is that they

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Speaker 2: inherited five billion of debt and I think they run

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Speaker 2: it up over one hundred and ten billion. We've now

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Speaker 2: got an interest bill, which people's mortgages are big, but

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Speaker 2: now we've got you know, ten to eleven billion of interest.

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Speaker 2: Think about that. That's more than what we've probably s

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Speaker 2: been on education, policing, justice, you know, at schools, hospitals, roads,

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Speaker 2: we can't build because we're just paying a debts back

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Speaker 2: and we've got nothing for their debt that was run

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Speaker 2: up by the last lot. Nothing, no better schools, roads, housing, nothing, nothing,

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Speaker 2: productivity enhancing whatsoever. So that's why you hear me often

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Speaker 2: say and get pretty fired up about it's economic mismanagement

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Speaker 2: and vandalism from the last lot, and they just sort

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Speaker 2: of gas lighting and Brittanian it didn't happen. It did happen,

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Speaker 2: and it's caused huge pain and suffering for us and

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Speaker 2: then puts massive pressure on our book.

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Speaker 1: So it's hard.

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Speaker 2: I mean it's hard, but we've got to get the

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Speaker 2: books back into order over time. It's going to take time,

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Speaker 2: there's no doubt about that. While we're also trying to

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Speaker 2: sort of, you know, change the know we're sort of

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Speaker 2: like the car and change in the wheel. At the

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Speaker 2: same time, we're trying to get the financial discipline in

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Speaker 2: place to get the books right. But that's not easy.

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Speaker 2: I mean, it's easy to spend the money. It's easy

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Speaker 2: to take on debt. It's the easiest option in the world.

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Speaker 2: Debt is good if it's for productivity, enhancing infrastructure and

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Speaker 2: good stuff like that. But it wasn't used in that way.

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Speaker 2: It was just pure consumption and it was out of control,

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Speaker 2: and it leads to the situation we've got now with

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Speaker 2: a hangover of an interest bill that is money we

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Speaker 2: can't spend setting the country up for even more success.

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Speaker 2: So yep, that's the reality of the cards that I've

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Speaker 2: been dealt and my government's been dealt. We're working our

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Speaker 2: way through it, but it does give people a sense

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Speaker 2: of how difficult it is. But we're determined to put

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Speaker 2: financial discipline back into the joint.

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Speaker 1: Again. Appreciate your time, Prime Minster, Christopher life for more

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Speaker 1: from the Mic Asking Breakfast. Listen live to news talks

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Speaker 1: that'd be from six am weekdays, or follow the podcast

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Speaker 1: on iHeartRadio