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Speaker 1: So it's wrapped. The political week that was with our

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Speaker 1: political leader to Jason Willis, welcome.

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Speaker 2: Back, thank you very much.

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Speaker 1: What's your favorite thing in the budget?

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Speaker 2: You know, I there was a number of things, I

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Speaker 2: think for me. I there was a question to Nicola

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Speaker 2: and I thought she handled the questions quite well. There

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Speaker 2: was one in particular about government debt and it was

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Speaker 2: one of the reporters. I'm not gonna name who they are,

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Speaker 2: but essentially it was like, you know, it's only two percent.

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Speaker 1: I named it yesterday on the program.

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Speaker 2: Okay, it's Bernd Higgs. But Bernard has been asking since

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Speaker 2: I was essentially, and so when it's essentially since I've

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Speaker 2: been born, right that why isn't the government borrowing more?

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Speaker 2: Why can't they just borrow more and just you know,

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Speaker 2: eat the interest And Nicola Willis gave a really good

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Speaker 2: answer as to why that was a bad idea and

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Speaker 2: talked about the interest bill of being about eight or

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Speaker 2: nine billion dollars a year, and it was it was

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Speaker 2: quite refreshing to hear somebody talk like this and to

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Speaker 2: say instead of just kind of taking the easy rote

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Speaker 2: in terms of getting and piling on more debts so

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Speaker 2: we can fund other things. It's actually saying we'll hang

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Speaker 2: on a second. We can't just ratchet up deren because people,

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Speaker 2: the young people of today are going to have to

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Speaker 2: pay for that tomorrow. And in saying that, I mean

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Speaker 2: the government's debt bill is still enormous. But it was

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Speaker 2: I thought it was good to hear her clap back

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Speaker 2: if you will.

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Speaker 1: Do you know what I thought was fascinating Yesterday I

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Speaker 1: got talking to Paddy Gower naming names again, got talking

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Speaker 1: to Paddy Gower in the lock up and he said

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Speaker 1: to me, oh, this is a fantastic budget because it's

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Speaker 1: a classic blue budget and there's money for the farmers

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Speaker 1: to go and buy a ute and then claim twenty

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Speaker 1: percent back. And what occurred to me while he was

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Speaker 1: saying that is that we haven't quite snapped out as

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Speaker 1: a country of looking at these budgets in like framing

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Speaker 1: them as successful or not based on who they give

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Speaker 1: money to. Do you know what I mean?

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Speaker 2: Yeah? Yeah, And there's always a tendency to say who

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Speaker 2: the big winners are out of every.

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Speaker 1: Single budget, when actually this is a loser's budget because

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Speaker 1: we are our debt is heading to forty six percent.

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Speaker 1: What we really need to be talking about as a

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Speaker 1: country is what are we prepared to cut? What are

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Speaker 1: we prepared to give up to get the books back

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Speaker 1: in order? And I don't know that we're quite getting

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Speaker 1: there as a country yet, are we. If the framing

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Speaker 1: is like this is a great blue budget.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, And it was actually quite interest I was

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Speaker 2: sitting right next to you when you and Patty had

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Speaker 2: that very animated and lively discussion. Quite it was quite

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Speaker 2: funny watching the two of you in full flight. But yeah, no,

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Speaker 2: I mean I do tend to agree, and I think

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Speaker 2: that we kind of need to wean ourselves off sort

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Speaker 2: of the big winners and the big losers, and kind

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Speaker 2: of have a situation where we look at a budget

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Speaker 2: and say, we need a period of fiscal consolidation for

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Speaker 2: a while, just to get things just on the straight

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Speaker 2: and arrow.

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Speaker 1: Really, do you know what I've met? My match with

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Speaker 1: Patty A I couldn't get a word in each ways,

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Speaker 1: did you know?

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Speaker 2: Well it was because I was sitting there trying to

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Speaker 2: take cuts for our bulletins and the only thing I

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Speaker 2: could hear was this is a great budget, and you

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Speaker 2: were like, this is a terrible budget.

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Speaker 1: It was it was like it was great, well, thanks

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Speaker 1: for noticing. So I mean, look, have we has this week?

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Speaker 1: Has yesterday not underscored too chippy that he should not

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Speaker 1: take the side of the Maori Party ever, they will

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Speaker 1: embarrass him, you.

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Speaker 2: Would think, And it's very He stood up in the

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Speaker 2: house and he gave he was one of the only

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Speaker 2: ones to actually give a speech before Chris Bishop kind

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Speaker 2: of surprised us all and adjourned the debate. But he said,

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Speaker 2: now listen, I'm not defending the Marty Party, and everybody

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Speaker 2: erupted in laughter because it's exactly what he was doing,

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Speaker 2: and this idea that you know, he's pulling it back

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Speaker 2: a little bit in terms of the punishment from the

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Speaker 2: Privileges Committee. They'd recommended twenty one days for the co leaders.

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Speaker 2: He had said three days, and then later in the

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Speaker 2: day he reverted that back to twenty four hours. But

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Speaker 2: I mean, and I think I've said this to you before.

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Speaker 2: One of the most fascinating things that I've heard recently

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Speaker 2: was actually David Farrier on your show, and he was

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Speaker 2: talking about the fact that he's done some polling about

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Speaker 2: the drag effect on the leaders and if you're a

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Speaker 2: NAT you tend to like Winston and you tend to

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Speaker 2: like David Seymour, if you're a Labor supporter, you tend

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Speaker 2: to not like the Tea Party, Marty cole Leaders and

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Speaker 2: the Greens. So I think he's got some real concerns there.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, is that a surprise to you, Jason.

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Speaker 2: No, it's not. I think that the Labor Party is

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Speaker 2: still a centrist party, but the left, in terms of

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Speaker 2: the Greens, anti Party, Marty are moving very very much. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: into this very left space we haven't seen occupied.

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Speaker 1: I just wonder if we haven't all together appreciated that. Sure.

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Speaker 1: I mean Actors you know, is kind of extreme in

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Speaker 1: some of the stuff, but they that extremity is nothing

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Speaker 1: compared to how extreme the Maori Party is. Like they

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Speaker 1: are so extreme that they actually make that whole coalition impossible, right.

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Speaker 2: And it's going to be something that Chris Hipkins is

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Speaker 2: going to have to balance because I was talking to

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Speaker 2: a few people last night from the various different parties

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Speaker 2: and they were almost sort of rubbing their hands with

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Speaker 2: glee in terms of the ads that they're going to

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Speaker 2: run in the next election, because all they need to

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Speaker 2: do is just sort of go back to that classic

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Speaker 2: National Party ad where it's all the different parties rowing

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Speaker 2: the same row boat and going around in circles.

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Speaker 1: Jason, it's good to talk to you. Thank you so

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Speaker 1: so much. As always, Jason Wooll's political editor, wrapping the

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Speaker 1: political week that was. For more from Hither Duplessy Allen Drive,

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Speaker 1: listen live to news Talks it'd be from four pm weekdays,

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Speaker 1: or follow the podcast on iHeartRadio