WEBVTT - Auckland's 'Super City' turning 15 - but how super is it really? 0:00:05.519 --> 0:00:08.680 Yoda. I'm Chelsea Daniels and this is the Front Page, 0:00:09.160 --> 0:00:16.480 a daily podcast presented by the New Zealand Herald. This 0:00:16.600 --> 0:00:21.840 year marks fifteen years since the birth of Auckland's supercity. 0:00:22.280 --> 0:00:26.960 The controversial idea to merge eight regional and district councils 0:00:26.960 --> 0:00:31.440 into one super council was kickstarted after a Royal Commission 0:00:31.520 --> 0:00:34.879 on Auckland governance back in two thousand and seven. The 0:00:34.920 --> 0:00:38.640 city now stretches from Welsford down to Bombay and from 0:00:38.760 --> 0:00:42.680 Uruay to Hoe their point. More than a decade later, 0:00:42.920 --> 0:00:45.800 discussions are still being had about whether it was a 0:00:45.840 --> 0:00:50.600 good move for New Zealand's largest and most populated city. Today, 0:00:50.600 --> 0:00:53.640 on the Front Page ends At Herald's senior writer Simon 0:00:53.680 --> 0:00:56.840 Wilson joins us to discuss what needs to be done 0:00:56.920 --> 0:01:07.160 to make sure Auckland's still thriving for the next fifteen years. 0:01:07.640 --> 0:01:12.920 So fifteen years on, Simon, how super is our supercity? 0:01:14.200 --> 0:01:18.480 So yeah, the Auckland City has been a supercity officially 0:01:18.959 --> 0:01:23.760 in legislation for fifteen years. That's when the new amalgamation 0:01:24.600 --> 0:01:28.240 in twenty ten, the amalgamation of eight different local authorities 0:01:28.319 --> 0:01:31.960 now around the Auckland region was completed and we got 0:01:32.000 --> 0:01:35.680 Auckland Council, which is both a regional council that in 0:01:35.720 --> 0:01:37.880 the way that other parts of the country have, as 0:01:37.880 --> 0:01:39.920 well as a city council in the way that other 0:01:39.959 --> 0:01:42.320 cities have the combined them won so it's called a 0:01:42.480 --> 0:01:46.240 unitary council. After fifteen years, it has now been an 0:01:46.280 --> 0:01:50.000 opportunity to take stock of just how well that's progressing, 0:01:50.880 --> 0:01:54.440 What is being solved in the city, what is the 0:01:54.720 --> 0:01:59.640 state of play with funding, with planning, with ambition, and 0:01:59.720 --> 0:02:02.880 how are we doing with our natural resources and with 0:02:03.480 --> 0:02:05.919 the way in which people are able to thrive. 0:02:06.240 --> 0:02:06.800 So tell me. 0:02:06.760 --> 0:02:10.560 About this latest research from the Auckland at fifteen that's 0:02:10.600 --> 0:02:15.360 by the University of Auckland's Complex Conversations Lab, which sounds 0:02:15.400 --> 0:02:17.200 like something that we just do in our day to 0:02:17.280 --> 0:02:20.840 day right, thank you, Right. How are Auckland is feeling 0:02:21.240 --> 0:02:22.440 about the supercity? 0:02:22.760 --> 0:02:26.040 Well, there are some The way in which the survey 0:02:26.160 --> 0:02:28.120 was done was that it's a kind of opten survey 0:02:28.200 --> 0:02:32.040 of people who went online and participated in conversations about 0:02:32.240 --> 0:02:34.240 what the city is like and where it should be going, 0:02:34.639 --> 0:02:38.840 responded to some provocations and statements added their own for 0:02:39.000 --> 0:02:42.280 other people to talk about and the surveys from that 0:02:42.400 --> 0:02:45.560 process built up a picture of what people think they had. 0:02:45.800 --> 0:02:48.720 I think five hundred and seventy five participants who made 0:02:48.760 --> 0:02:52.160 over one thousand proposals, and out of that they reached 0:02:52.400 --> 0:02:56.560 in many ways a very high degree of consensus. So 0:02:56.639 --> 0:03:01.360 there is over ninety percent support for enhancing the natural 0:03:01.440 --> 0:03:03.480 environment of the city. And I don't think that should 0:03:03.520 --> 0:03:05.880 surprise anybody. We know we live in a beautiful city, 0:03:05.880 --> 0:03:07.160 and we know we want to look after it, and 0:03:07.200 --> 0:03:08.480 we know we want to make the most of it 0:03:08.639 --> 0:03:13.600 and not threaten it. That environmental side comes turns into 0:03:13.639 --> 0:03:17.440 things like the beach is clean, when the storms come, 0:03:17.800 --> 0:03:20.440 do they remain clean or clean enough? So will we 0:03:20.480 --> 0:03:22.640 doing enough in those sorts of areas as are we 0:03:22.680 --> 0:03:25.520 dealing with CARDI dieback? Are we looking after the forests? 0:03:25.680 --> 0:03:28.680 Are we making sure there is enough what is called 0:03:28.800 --> 0:03:32.240 urban nahili, which is the urban forest. We're making sure 0:03:32.280 --> 0:03:34.640 there's enough greenery in the city. And we know that 0:03:34.680 --> 0:03:38.080 those things are becoming more important, not just because we 0:03:38.240 --> 0:03:40.720 like trees and trees are good for our mental health, 0:03:41.040 --> 0:03:45.240 but also trees provide enormous amounts of shelter, and that's 0:03:45.320 --> 0:03:48.760 becoming more important. In some parts of the city, particularly 0:03:48.760 --> 0:03:52.280 in the south of Auckland, where the sun is getting 0:03:52.280 --> 0:03:55.800 hotter and stronger and the weather wilder, and we need 0:03:55.840 --> 0:03:58.400 those kinds of protections too. So all of that's happening. 0:03:58.440 --> 0:04:01.480 There is a big push for the city to become 0:04:01.720 --> 0:04:06.040 more innovative. Question for Auckland is that we have pretty 0:04:06.120 --> 0:04:10.400 highly educated population, pretty highly mobile, We are a relatively 0:04:10.400 --> 0:04:14.840 wealthy country, and we have pretty good communication networks, and 0:04:14.960 --> 0:04:17.600 all of those things ought to mean that we're very 0:04:17.600 --> 0:04:21.720 well placed globally to become what's called an innovation city, 0:04:21.800 --> 0:04:26.080 to be using technology to make the most of our 0:04:26.160 --> 0:04:30.239 economic opportunities, and to do it from this fabulous place 0:04:30.360 --> 0:04:32.880 so that we attract what Sir Paul Callahan used to 0:04:32.920 --> 0:04:36.400 call the people to come and work, play and live 0:04:36.480 --> 0:04:39.360 here because it's a great place to live and because 0:04:39.440 --> 0:04:43.040 you can do the stimulating, interesting work that you want 0:04:43.080 --> 0:04:45.200 to do that maybe you were doing in Europe or 0:04:45.240 --> 0:04:47.479 Australia or America, that you come and to it in 0:04:47.480 --> 0:04:49.760 New Zealand, come and do it in Auckland, where you 0:04:49.800 --> 0:04:52.760 get all the advantages of the outdoor life as well 0:04:52.760 --> 0:04:56.400 as the fascinating diverse society, and you still got those 0:04:56.440 --> 0:05:00.320 economic advantages too. The problem with that vision is that 0:05:00.440 --> 0:05:03.520 it is the vision of almost every city in the 0:05:03.560 --> 0:05:05.920 world that's about the same sizes. 0:05:05.640 --> 0:05:08.520 Right, yes, why should you choose all exactly? 0:05:08.640 --> 0:05:10.440 So, what is the thing that is going to make 0:05:10.480 --> 0:05:12.599 Auckland unique? And we can't be smug about it. We 0:05:12.680 --> 0:05:14.680 can't just go We'll look. You know, it's a great 0:05:14.680 --> 0:05:16.760 place to get your kayak out and get on the harbor, 0:05:16.839 --> 0:05:20.440 go surfing or go tramping or whatever, because other people 0:05:20.440 --> 0:05:23.320 offer those things too and can offer a better sentard 0:05:23.360 --> 0:05:25.920 of living. We know, housing prices are really high here, 0:05:26.000 --> 0:05:28.159 so there's a real barrier and those sorts of things. 0:05:28.320 --> 0:05:30.520 You know, there are a range of issues that we 0:05:30.560 --> 0:05:33.800 confront that we're not very good at confronting, and unless 0:05:33.800 --> 0:05:36.240 we get much better at them, we risk being left 0:05:36.279 --> 0:05:40.520 behind by other cities in Asia and Australia and in 0:05:40.560 --> 0:05:41.280 other parts. 0:05:41.080 --> 0:05:45.719 Of the world overall. When this new line opens, Auckland's 0:05:45.760 --> 0:05:48.919 rail networks will start looking quite different. In addition to 0:05:48.960 --> 0:05:51.680 the new and upgraded stations, the network will have far 0:05:51.839 --> 0:05:57.000 more capacity, slightly more coverage, and much better cross city connections. 0:05:57.040 --> 0:06:00.240 But in my view it's important as extra capacities to 0:06:00.279 --> 0:06:02.680 good use While it will be most needed during the 0:06:02.720 --> 0:06:05.120 busy peak periods, I want to see it be used 0:06:05.120 --> 0:06:08.280 to boost off peak frequencies as well. There are many 0:06:08.320 --> 0:06:11.279 stations in Auckland suburbs that only get trains every twenty 0:06:11.279 --> 0:06:14.160 to thirty minutes and I'd like to see this improved 0:06:14.160 --> 0:06:16.280 to more turn up and goes to our frequencies. 0:06:19.600 --> 0:06:21.520 Well, one of those things that I guess that we're 0:06:21.560 --> 0:06:26.480 not amazing at might be that cohesion in public transport. 0:06:26.600 --> 0:06:30.119 Now seventy six percent I believe said that we lack 0:06:30.320 --> 0:06:33.640 a cohesive public transport vision and I've got to agree 0:06:33.680 --> 0:06:37.000 with them, But how much do you reckon the City 0:06:37.080 --> 0:06:40.719 rail Link will better those results when it's open. 0:06:40.560 --> 0:06:42.719 The Yeah, So the theory of the City rail Link 0:06:42.800 --> 0:06:45.839 is that it will double patronage of our rail system. 0:06:46.120 --> 0:06:49.400 And it doesn't mean that everybody's going to start catching 0:06:49.440 --> 0:06:52.080 the train. It's not like that. You know, most people 0:06:52.160 --> 0:06:54.359 don't live near a train station, but a lot of 0:06:54.360 --> 0:06:57.040 people do. And when you think about congestion on the roads, 0:06:57.080 --> 0:07:00.520 congestion was identified in the survey as the biggest single 0:07:00.640 --> 0:07:04.720 transport problem to be solved. The problem with that is 0:07:04.760 --> 0:07:07.080 that there are different ideas about how to solve it 0:07:07.560 --> 0:07:10.400 right now. Some people say more roads, Some people say 0:07:10.520 --> 0:07:13.200 better public transport, better cycling and so on, so that 0:07:13.240 --> 0:07:16.920 you take people off the roads. Some people say congestion charging, 0:07:17.040 --> 0:07:20.280 so that the busiest roads should be have a toll 0:07:20.320 --> 0:07:24.920 on them at those times to discourage people from using them. 0:07:25.040 --> 0:07:28.240 Then these debates are ongoing in relation to the CRL. 0:07:28.560 --> 0:07:33.000 If you could move ten, twenty, even ten percent of 0:07:33.240 --> 0:07:36.520 the population who are currently driving every day, you could 0:07:36.560 --> 0:07:40.680 move them onto other forms of transport, onto public transport, 0:07:40.880 --> 0:07:44.920 in particular, you would overnight, you would solve the congestion problem. 0:07:45.040 --> 0:07:47.760 You would have streets that are freer than they currently 0:07:47.840 --> 0:07:50.520 are during school holidays. So the CRL is a big 0:07:50.560 --> 0:07:52.680 part of that is a big part of saying there 0:07:52.680 --> 0:07:55.200 will be twice as many trains. The trains, the train 0:07:55.280 --> 0:07:57.960 trips will be faster, They will take people further to 0:07:58.000 --> 0:07:59.920 where they want to go, because if you're coming into 0:07:59.960 --> 0:08:02.320 the city, you won't just be deposited at Britain Art. 0:08:02.320 --> 0:08:04.520 You'll be able to get off at Cutting a Happy Road, 0:08:04.600 --> 0:08:08.000 or get off at Midtown area now closer to perhaps 0:08:08.000 --> 0:08:09.920 to where you work or where you study, and those 0:08:10.000 --> 0:08:13.960 things will all make public transport more appealing. That's the 0:08:13.960 --> 0:08:16.560 theory of that. And you know there are other things too. 0:08:17.600 --> 0:08:20.920 If we had a concerted effort to have kids not 0:08:21.160 --> 0:08:23.880 be driven to school, that would make a real material 0:08:23.920 --> 0:08:27.280 difference to congestion on our roads, not just for in 0:08:27.360 --> 0:08:29.640 terms of the school traffic, but also in terms of 0:08:29.640 --> 0:08:31.440 people who you know. You drop the kids at school 0:08:31.480 --> 0:08:33.640 and then you could drive on to work, or you 0:08:33.840 --> 0:08:35.319 drive to work, so you might as well drop the 0:08:35.360 --> 0:08:37.920 kids to school. It's a checking anything. If you could 0:08:37.920 --> 0:08:40.520 break that, go back to a generation or two earlier 0:08:40.559 --> 0:08:43.600 where that wasn't the norm. Now you'd make a big difference. 0:08:43.640 --> 0:08:47.439 Again, I guess, how is it working having such diverse 0:08:47.640 --> 0:08:50.480 parts of the city under the same council. You can 0:08:50.520 --> 0:08:53.360 forget the further north you go from the city center. 0:08:53.480 --> 0:08:56.800 Just how much is considered part of Auckland. Do the 0:08:56.800 --> 0:08:59.880 people in say fung A Paroa have the same concern 0:09:00.200 --> 0:09:01.400 as someone in Wayuku. 0:09:01.679 --> 0:09:04.960 Often they don't. If they're stuck on the motorway and traffic, 0:09:05.000 --> 0:09:07.679 then they essentially do have the same concerns. If you 0:09:07.720 --> 0:09:12.640 think about Fungapara, so that's a relatively developed suburban area 0:09:12.679 --> 0:09:15.600 that's a good distance away from the city, different from Wayuku, 0:09:15.640 --> 0:09:18.160 which is very rural. A lot of Auckland now is 0:09:18.360 --> 0:09:21.480 rural geographically, but not many people live there now. Most 0:09:21.480 --> 0:09:24.160 people live in the built up areas. Of course, by definition. 0:09:24.280 --> 0:09:26.240 The example that people always used to give when the 0:09:26.280 --> 0:09:28.640 supercity was formed was what are we going to do 0:09:28.679 --> 0:09:31.920 about our waterfront? And there were so many different local 0:09:31.960 --> 0:09:35.319 authorities that had different points of view that nothing ever happened. 0:09:35.360 --> 0:09:38.800 Since the super City, the waterfront of Auckland has developed 0:09:39.360 --> 0:09:43.240 quite significantly. So you think about Queen's Wharf was given 0:09:43.280 --> 0:09:46.040 back to or Council and became they wanted to make 0:09:46.040 --> 0:09:48.680 it the People's Wharf, the renovation of Shed ten. They're 0:09:48.760 --> 0:09:52.480 the North Wharf area, that the viaduct, which was pre 0:09:52.600 --> 0:09:55.680 Supercity but has continued to evolve, the North Warf area. 0:09:55.920 --> 0:09:59.120 There are cycleways, there are great recreational areas. There are 0:09:59.200 --> 0:10:01.760 lots of things for people to do that are free, 0:10:01.800 --> 0:10:04.320 as well as going drink and eating, the bars and 0:10:04.360 --> 0:10:06.679 restaurants and so on. You think about the sale GP 0:10:06.960 --> 0:10:10.680 thing last summer, where there was enormous, enormous popular support 0:10:10.760 --> 0:10:13.000 for events that people could get to. Those sorts of 0:10:13.000 --> 0:10:15.840 things have all evolved and been made possible because of 0:10:15.840 --> 0:10:19.080 the super city. It's been easier to plan, easier to organize, 0:10:19.120 --> 0:10:23.760 easier to get approval and funding for that kind of development. 0:10:24.559 --> 0:10:27.640 That's the upside. The downside is that it's a city 0:10:27.679 --> 0:10:30.920 of one point seven million people. There are twenty one 0:10:31.120 --> 0:10:35.599 local boards, most of them have populations that are bigger 0:10:35.640 --> 0:10:39.400 than most other cities in the country, and they have 0:10:39.880 --> 0:10:43.960 local boards which are part time members. They don't have 0:10:44.200 --> 0:10:47.520 anything like the funding of other city councils. So there 0:10:47.600 --> 0:10:51.360 is a real gap at the local democratic level now 0:10:51.559 --> 0:10:55.640 between decisions that get made centrally by Auckland councils centrally 0:10:55.760 --> 0:11:00.120 and people's aspirations in their neighborhoods and their suburbs. And 0:11:00.160 --> 0:11:03.240 that's very hard to know how to bridge because you know, 0:11:03.559 --> 0:11:05.760 the one obvious way to bridge it would be to say, 0:11:05.840 --> 0:11:09.760 let's have lots more democratic engagement. Let's have lots more 0:11:09.800 --> 0:11:14.000 opportunity for people in local areas to belong to committees 0:11:14.040 --> 0:11:16.920 and communities where they can feed in ideas and have 0:11:17.320 --> 0:11:19.880 a say in what happens. But nobody's very keen on 0:11:20.040 --> 0:11:22.880 paying for that. Nobody wants to have that kind of 0:11:22.920 --> 0:11:25.360 local democracy where we've got lots and lots and lots 0:11:25.360 --> 0:11:29.240 of officials. That's quite problematic. Decision making is removed and 0:11:29.520 --> 0:11:32.080 nobody has a real has a clear answer. 0:11:41.320 --> 0:11:44.120 And I can imagine the funding in these small areas 0:11:44.160 --> 0:11:46.439 as well. I mean, I'm just thinking about a situation 0:11:46.679 --> 0:11:49.880 perhaps where a local board is petitioning for a zebra 0:11:49.960 --> 0:11:54.440 crossing in their town center versus what that money could do, 0:11:54.559 --> 0:11:57.440 say for the waterfront in the viaduct, and how like 0:11:58.200 --> 0:12:01.720 who along that line would that local board need to 0:12:01.760 --> 0:12:05.200 go through to get the funding for that zebra crossing, 0:12:05.200 --> 0:12:06.959 because I can probably tell you right now that that 0:12:07.280 --> 0:12:09.640 funding is probably going to go towards something in the city, 0:12:09.720 --> 0:12:10.920 right Actually. 0:12:10.600 --> 0:12:14.800 No, no, no, So that the council in its fifteen 0:12:14.880 --> 0:12:17.480 years has had slightly different ways of organizing how the 0:12:17.520 --> 0:12:20.080 money is spent, but it's always been driven by the 0:12:20.160 --> 0:12:23.160 idea that there will be pots of money for each 0:12:23.240 --> 0:12:26.200 of the local areas. So if there is money to 0:12:26.280 --> 0:12:29.880 be spent in your area and your local board wants 0:12:29.880 --> 0:12:32.520 a zebra crossing there, that money won't be taken and 0:12:32.640 --> 0:12:35.560 used in another local board area or in downtown, right, 0:12:35.960 --> 0:12:38.920 that will be allocated to the local board to spend 0:12:38.960 --> 0:12:41.760 in that way, they might have to persuade Auckland Transport 0:12:42.320 --> 0:12:45.000 that it's worth having. An Auckland Transport might come back 0:12:45.040 --> 0:12:47.320 to them and say, well, we've got twenty requirements for 0:12:47.400 --> 0:12:50.280 more zebra crossings and yours, in terms of the risks 0:12:50.320 --> 0:12:52.640 that we've measured, is only number ten, so we can't 0:12:52.679 --> 0:12:54.360 do it this year. Now, that might happen, and you 0:12:54.440 --> 0:12:56.720 have an ongoing debate about that, because the local board 0:12:56.760 --> 0:12:59.679 will say, but this is our priority, so therefore they 0:12:59.679 --> 0:13:03.160 should listened to. Transport will say well, it's not our priority. 0:13:03.200 --> 0:13:06.320 And that's a clash that is not managed very well 0:13:06.360 --> 0:13:08.480 all the time. Now, so you do get that tension. 0:13:08.520 --> 0:13:11.320 But Auckland Transport can't say, well, the money you want 0:13:11.320 --> 0:13:13.200 to spend on the zebra crossing, we're going to spend 0:13:13.240 --> 0:13:14.439 it in another part of the city. 0:13:14.480 --> 0:13:16.880 They can't say that, right, So I'm going down a 0:13:16.920 --> 0:13:19.880 conspiratorial path, am I. 0:13:19.880 --> 0:13:21.440 I'll put my pitchfork away. 0:13:21.600 --> 0:13:24.880 Having just said that, local boards would probably say we 0:13:24.920 --> 0:13:28.280 want more money. You know, there was a under an 0:13:28.320 --> 0:13:31.160 earlier there there was a proposal. Can't remember the exact 0:13:31.200 --> 0:13:33.040 wording of it, but it was the one, the one 0:13:33.080 --> 0:13:35.760 big project. Each local board had to say, this is 0:13:35.840 --> 0:13:38.040 the one thing we want to fund and they only 0:13:38.080 --> 0:13:38.480 got one. 0:13:39.160 --> 0:13:39.600 Oh wow. 0:13:39.720 --> 0:13:41.880 So there was this pot of each of them had 0:13:41.880 --> 0:13:44.920 a pot of a reasonablysizeable amount of money and they 0:13:44.960 --> 0:13:49.480 got to decide each one and that led to some problems. 0:13:49.600 --> 0:13:52.199 That system isn't quite in place now, so it's always 0:13:52.200 --> 0:13:54.439 evolving the way the city city works. But that led 0:13:54.480 --> 0:13:57.160 to some problems where what about project number two and 0:13:57.200 --> 0:13:59.280 three and four? Are they just not going to happen? 0:13:59.400 --> 0:14:01.280 You know those things are going to be important too, 0:14:01.280 --> 0:14:03.280 And that was one of the problems. Another problem was 0:14:03.400 --> 0:14:06.080 you had a case out and with a couple of 0:14:06.080 --> 0:14:08.480 local boards near each other. Both of them wanted and 0:14:08.679 --> 0:14:11.439 entertainment a recreation center, and they both got They both 0:14:11.640 --> 0:14:14.920 made those projects their one project, and they were pretty 0:14:14.960 --> 0:14:17.320 close to each other, only a kilometer or so apart, 0:14:17.400 --> 0:14:21.120 and the city planning didn't need those two centers so 0:14:21.200 --> 0:14:23.160 close to each other. But the idea of the local 0:14:23.160 --> 0:14:26.160 boards deciding meant that that was progressing. I think in 0:14:26.160 --> 0:14:28.280 fact that got stopped in the end. But you can 0:14:28.280 --> 0:14:30.840 see the problem that would be there. How you balance 0:14:30.960 --> 0:14:35.080 central planning with local important local decision making every day 0:14:35.280 --> 0:14:37.560 is a problem. It doesn't mean it's not worth doing, 0:14:38.440 --> 0:14:40.480 and it's but that is part of the thing that 0:14:41.280 --> 0:14:42.800 the council engages with. 0:14:43.040 --> 0:14:43.200 Now. 0:14:43.240 --> 0:14:45.840 I know that the rest of the country probably rolls 0:14:45.920 --> 0:14:48.920 their eyes and hates when we center in on Auckland, 0:14:49.160 --> 0:14:52.480 But something Deloitte Chief Executive Mike Horn said in the 0:14:52.520 --> 0:14:55.680 research stuck out to me. He said, if Auckland isn't 0:14:55.800 --> 0:15:01.200 competing globally, then New Zealand will suffer. Couple of things here. Firstly, 0:15:01.320 --> 0:15:04.280 do you think the country needs to accept that in 0:15:04.480 --> 0:15:07.760 order to thrive, Auckland needs to do well. 0:15:08.200 --> 0:15:10.040 I think that's right. And one of the things about 0:15:10.080 --> 0:15:12.600 Auckland is that we have something like a third of 0:15:12.640 --> 0:15:15.720 the population and I think thirty eight percent of the GDP. 0:15:15.920 --> 0:15:19.120 Now that's quite low for a major city. So the 0:15:19.240 --> 0:15:23.280 GDP in London compared to the British GDP is much higher. 0:15:23.640 --> 0:15:26.760 In other countries where there is one big city as 0:15:26.800 --> 0:15:29.120 we have, you would expect it to be higher than 0:15:29.520 --> 0:15:32.880 the proportion that we have. So that that is a 0:15:32.880 --> 0:15:34.840 problem for the city now and a problem for the 0:15:34.840 --> 0:15:40.160 country New Zealand has. If our farming, if our agriculture 0:15:40.200 --> 0:15:44.080 isn't doing well, we are in trouble as our whole country. 0:15:44.160 --> 0:15:46.680 It's not just farmers in trouble. We're all in trouble 0:15:46.680 --> 0:15:49.040 if it isn't doing well. We know that, but that 0:15:49.200 --> 0:15:52.640 is also true about Auckland itself. Auckland is such a 0:15:52.720 --> 0:15:56.760 powerhouse economically now that if it isn't doing well, then 0:15:56.760 --> 0:15:58.920 the country suffers as well. So we need from a 0:15:59.040 --> 0:16:02.720 national perspective, we need planning to do both those things 0:16:02.800 --> 0:16:06.760 as well as keep the regions viable so they're worth living. 0:16:06.840 --> 0:16:09.640 And we don't want everybody to come to Auckland because 0:16:09.640 --> 0:16:11.760 that's just that's there would be a nightmare. 0:16:11.440 --> 0:16:15.240 For everyone road through a nightmare aready, right, and there aren't. 0:16:15.040 --> 0:16:16.720 The houses and all the rest of it. And you 0:16:16.800 --> 0:16:19.720 want the regions to be viable, but you also need 0:16:20.240 --> 0:16:23.960 that central city to be strong. And as you say, 0:16:24.200 --> 0:16:27.440 the Deloitte chief executive Mike Horn saying, we need to 0:16:27.560 --> 0:16:30.160 understand that's that's one of the things he said that. 0:16:30.200 --> 0:16:34.640 He also says, we've had an incremental approach to development 0:16:34.760 --> 0:16:36.920 and that has to change because it's meant to be 0:16:36.960 --> 0:16:40.040 slipping away. You know, I've been following the super city 0:16:40.080 --> 0:16:42.920 since it was formed in twenty ten, and the first 0:16:42.960 --> 0:16:45.760 to me, Lenn Brown, always used to say, don't fret 0:16:46.040 --> 0:16:49.960 about the fact that we're not getting big transformative change 0:16:49.960 --> 0:16:52.800 happening straight away. Every little bit helps. We will do 0:16:52.880 --> 0:16:55.440 this incremental thing, and it will build on the last 0:16:55.720 --> 0:16:57.600 and we will keep building on it and the next 0:16:57.600 --> 0:17:00.320 and the next. And that is how most polots tix 0:17:00.400 --> 0:17:03.920 works most of the time. It's the reality of politics. 0:17:04.320 --> 0:17:07.399 And he knew that, and the city was progressing. But 0:17:07.640 --> 0:17:11.919 what Mike Horn is saying is that actually that isn't enough. 0:17:12.160 --> 0:17:17.240 We understand that we are not making ourselves attractive enough 0:17:17.320 --> 0:17:19.840 for the world's best and brightest to come and live 0:17:19.920 --> 0:17:23.000 and work here, for the world's entrepreneurs to want to 0:17:23.000 --> 0:17:26.080 set up here and put money into the New Zealand economy. 0:17:26.119 --> 0:17:28.560 We understand we need to transform in order to do that. 0:17:28.640 --> 0:17:32.320 We also understand that you can't just make the buses 0:17:32.320 --> 0:17:34.399 a bit more efficient and I hope to transform the 0:17:35.000 --> 0:17:37.800 transport system. You've got to be thinking bigger about it 0:17:37.880 --> 0:17:41.160 than that. You can't just make the schools a little 0:17:41.160 --> 0:17:44.040 bit better and hope to transform the problems we have 0:17:44.080 --> 0:17:46.320 an education. You've got to do better than that. You 0:17:46.359 --> 0:17:48.639 can't just build a few more houses and solve the 0:17:48.680 --> 0:17:51.280 housing crisis. You've got to build a lot more houses 0:17:51.320 --> 0:17:53.920 to solve the housing crisis and on it. Guys, how 0:17:54.000 --> 0:17:57.679 we get how we do those transformative things is extremely 0:17:57.760 --> 0:18:02.080 difficult because probably most people are reasonably comfortable with the 0:18:02.160 --> 0:18:06.520 idea that we as The survey shows very high support 0:18:06.600 --> 0:18:13.320 for density done well, particularly around transport hubs. Doesn't follow 0:18:13.320 --> 0:18:15.080 that you want more density in your street? 0:18:15.800 --> 0:18:21.399 Yeah, yeah, What are your thoughts on living in Auckland. 0:18:21.640 --> 0:18:24.520 Auckland is expensive. I've lived overseas a lot and being 0:18:24.560 --> 0:18:27.080 back two years and coming back I was shocked. 0:18:27.080 --> 0:18:27.800 It's not too bad. 0:18:27.840 --> 0:18:28.680 It can be expensive. 0:18:28.680 --> 0:18:29.840 Sometimes it's inflation. 0:18:29.960 --> 0:18:30.760 But yeah, I. 0:18:31.000 --> 0:18:33.439 Got a UNI and I have to pay for parking 0:18:34.119 --> 0:18:34.880 for the train station. 0:18:35.000 --> 0:18:35.920 I guess you do a bet of it. 0:18:36.200 --> 0:18:37.880 But even then sometimes it's not enough. 0:18:37.920 --> 0:18:40.480 How much are you paying for renting here in Auten City. 0:18:40.840 --> 0:18:43.680 I'm sharing with somebody, so my share is four hundred 0:18:43.720 --> 0:18:48.399 and fifty dollars one week. I just done that in Thailane, Cambodia. 0:18:48.440 --> 0:18:50.320 I was paying four hundred dollars for one month. 0:18:50.440 --> 0:18:53.280 Get the government to bring some things down, take some 0:18:53.320 --> 0:18:55.520 money out of things that's unnecessary and put into things 0:18:55.600 --> 0:18:56.240 actually matter. 0:19:01.160 --> 0:19:02.919 And we're already I mean, I guess we're in that 0:19:02.960 --> 0:19:08.240 catch twenty two, because we're already paying London Sydney New 0:19:08.320 --> 0:19:11.639 York prices to live in Auckland. And it's kind of 0:19:11.680 --> 0:19:13.560 like that thing, Well, why should you get paid more 0:19:13.600 --> 0:19:16.080 at work when you're doing the work you are at 0:19:16.080 --> 0:19:17.960 the moment for the pay that you're getting. You know, 0:19:18.080 --> 0:19:21.200 it's just like why why should the city thrive and 0:19:21.240 --> 0:19:25.080 why should it better itself when everyone is paying these 0:19:25.119 --> 0:19:28.320 prices to live here? Anyway? Like, what's the incentive there 0:19:28.320 --> 0:19:30.800 for people to attract more people? Well, we've got one 0:19:30.800 --> 0:19:34.719 point seven million people here already, what's going to What 0:19:34.840 --> 0:19:37.280 is it going to take, I guess for us to 0:19:37.359 --> 0:19:40.119 make that jump and just to really fasten things up 0:19:40.160 --> 0:19:41.919 and get to the Sydney, get to the New York, 0:19:41.960 --> 0:19:42.720 get to the London. 0:19:42.960 --> 0:19:48.840 I would argue that we need a housing price structure 0:19:49.200 --> 0:19:52.200 that means there are enough places for everybody to live. 0:19:52.640 --> 0:19:54.560 That's at all the different price points and all the 0:19:54.600 --> 0:19:57.640 different types of housing. Now you can't just look after 0:19:57.680 --> 0:20:00.800 a certain proportion of the population in that way. An 0:20:00.800 --> 0:20:03.479 awful lot follows from housing. If people have got decent housing, 0:20:03.560 --> 0:20:06.719 then they're more likely that their families will be healthier, 0:20:06.840 --> 0:20:09.280 more likely to be kids going to school. Now more 0:20:09.400 --> 0:20:12.200 likely people are in work and able to stay and work. 0:20:12.240 --> 0:20:15.320 All of those things follow from having a place, a 0:20:15.320 --> 0:20:18.120 secure or and dry, safe place to live, So that's 0:20:18.160 --> 0:20:21.840 really important. Beyond that though, what's the point of difference 0:20:21.840 --> 0:20:26.080 for Auckland, Well, in terms of big cities. You know 0:20:26.480 --> 0:20:29.080 something somebody said to me once when I first moved 0:20:29.119 --> 0:20:31.520 to Auckland, which is over twenty years ago. They said, 0:20:31.600 --> 0:20:33.680 what I like about it is the mess. What he 0:20:33.840 --> 0:20:36.600 meant was, you walk down the street. You don't know 0:20:36.640 --> 0:20:39.040 who you're going to meet or see, you don't know 0:20:39.119 --> 0:20:42.520 what you're going to see, you don't know what might 0:20:42.720 --> 0:20:47.400 have been changing. It's always stimulating. And that's a big 0:20:47.440 --> 0:20:50.200 city thing where the fact that it doesn't quite work 0:20:50.240 --> 0:20:53.320 properly but people make it work for them. If that 0:20:53.520 --> 0:20:56.600 is possible, that can be pretty exciting. You know. One 0:20:56.640 --> 0:20:59.720 of the things that means is that really cool little 0:20:59.760 --> 0:21:01.879 bar there that those people set up in a place 0:21:01.920 --> 0:21:03.800 that doesn't even seem like it should be a bar, 0:21:04.119 --> 0:21:07.080 but hell, they're now music venue. And you know, if 0:21:07.080 --> 0:21:09.360