1 00:00:05,519 --> 00:00:08,680 Speaker 1: Yoda. I'm Chelsea Daniels and this is the Front Page, 2 00:00:09,160 --> 00:00:16,480 Speaker 1: a daily podcast presented by the New Zealand Herald. This 3 00:00:16,600 --> 00:00:21,840 Speaker 1: year marks fifteen years since the birth of Auckland's supercity. 4 00:00:22,280 --> 00:00:26,960 Speaker 1: The controversial idea to merge eight regional and district councils 5 00:00:26,960 --> 00:00:31,440 Speaker 1: into one super council was kickstarted after a Royal Commission 6 00:00:31,520 --> 00:00:34,879 Speaker 1: on Auckland governance back in two thousand and seven. The 7 00:00:34,920 --> 00:00:38,640 Speaker 1: city now stretches from Welsford down to Bombay and from 8 00:00:38,760 --> 00:00:42,680 Speaker 1: Uruay to Hoe their point. More than a decade later, 9 00:00:42,920 --> 00:00:45,800 Speaker 1: discussions are still being had about whether it was a 10 00:00:45,840 --> 00:00:50,600 Speaker 1: good move for New Zealand's largest and most populated city. Today, 11 00:00:50,600 --> 00:00:53,640 Speaker 1: on the Front Page ends At Herald's senior writer Simon 12 00:00:53,680 --> 00:00:56,840 Speaker 1: Wilson joins us to discuss what needs to be done 13 00:00:56,920 --> 00:01:07,160 Speaker 1: to make sure Auckland's still thriving for the next fifteen years. 14 00:01:07,640 --> 00:01:12,920 Speaker 1: So fifteen years on, Simon, how super is our supercity? 15 00:01:14,200 --> 00:01:18,480 Speaker 2: So yeah, the Auckland City has been a supercity officially 16 00:01:18,959 --> 00:01:23,760 Speaker 2: in legislation for fifteen years. That's when the new amalgamation 17 00:01:24,600 --> 00:01:28,240 Speaker 2: in twenty ten, the amalgamation of eight different local authorities 18 00:01:28,319 --> 00:01:31,960 Speaker 2: now around the Auckland region was completed and we got 19 00:01:32,000 --> 00:01:35,680 Speaker 2: Auckland Council, which is both a regional council that in 20 00:01:35,720 --> 00:01:37,880 Speaker 2: the way that other parts of the country have, as 21 00:01:37,880 --> 00:01:39,920 Speaker 2: well as a city council in the way that other 22 00:01:39,959 --> 00:01:42,320 Speaker 2: cities have the combined them won so it's called a 23 00:01:42,480 --> 00:01:46,240 Speaker 2: unitary council. After fifteen years, it has now been an 24 00:01:46,280 --> 00:01:50,000 Speaker 2: opportunity to take stock of just how well that's progressing, 25 00:01:50,880 --> 00:01:54,440 Speaker 2: What is being solved in the city, what is the 26 00:01:54,720 --> 00:01:59,640 Speaker 2: state of play with funding, with planning, with ambition, and 27 00:01:59,720 --> 00:02:02,880 Speaker 2: how are we doing with our natural resources and with 28 00:02:03,480 --> 00:02:05,919 Speaker 2: the way in which people are able to thrive. 29 00:02:06,240 --> 00:02:06,800 Speaker 3: So tell me. 30 00:02:06,760 --> 00:02:10,560 Speaker 1: About this latest research from the Auckland at fifteen that's 31 00:02:10,600 --> 00:02:15,360 Speaker 1: by the University of Auckland's Complex Conversations Lab, which sounds 32 00:02:15,400 --> 00:02:17,200 Speaker 1: like something that we just do in our day to 33 00:02:17,280 --> 00:02:20,840 Speaker 1: day right, thank you, Right. How are Auckland is feeling 34 00:02:21,240 --> 00:02:22,440 Speaker 1: about the supercity? 35 00:02:22,760 --> 00:02:26,040 Speaker 2: Well, there are some The way in which the survey 36 00:02:26,160 --> 00:02:28,120 Speaker 2: was done was that it's a kind of opten survey 37 00:02:28,200 --> 00:02:32,040 Speaker 2: of people who went online and participated in conversations about 38 00:02:32,240 --> 00:02:34,240 Speaker 2: what the city is like and where it should be going, 39 00:02:34,639 --> 00:02:38,840 Speaker 2: responded to some provocations and statements added their own for 40 00:02:39,000 --> 00:02:42,280 Speaker 2: other people to talk about and the surveys from that 41 00:02:42,400 --> 00:02:45,560 Speaker 2: process built up a picture of what people think they had. 42 00:02:45,800 --> 00:02:48,720 Speaker 2: I think five hundred and seventy five participants who made 43 00:02:48,760 --> 00:02:52,160 Speaker 2: over one thousand proposals, and out of that they reached 44 00:02:52,400 --> 00:02:56,560 Speaker 2: in many ways a very high degree of consensus. So 45 00:02:56,639 --> 00:03:01,360 Speaker 2: there is over ninety percent support for enhancing the natural 46 00:03:01,440 --> 00:03:03,480 Speaker 2: environment of the city. And I don't think that should 47 00:03:03,520 --> 00:03:05,880 Speaker 2: surprise anybody. We know we live in a beautiful city, 48 00:03:05,880 --> 00:03:07,160 Speaker 2: and we know we want to look after it, and 49 00:03:07,200 --> 00:03:08,480 Speaker 2: we know we want to make the most of it 50 00:03:08,639 --> 00:03:13,600 Speaker 2: and not threaten it. That environmental side comes turns into 51 00:03:13,639 --> 00:03:17,440 Speaker 2: things like the beach is clean, when the storms come, 52 00:03:17,800 --> 00:03:20,440 Speaker 2: do they remain clean or clean enough? So will we 53 00:03:20,480 --> 00:03:22,640 Speaker 2: doing enough in those sorts of areas as are we 54 00:03:22,680 --> 00:03:25,520 Speaker 2: dealing with CARDI dieback? Are we looking after the forests? 55 00:03:25,680 --> 00:03:28,680 Speaker 2: Are we making sure there is enough what is called 56 00:03:28,800 --> 00:03:32,240 Speaker 2: urban nahili, which is the urban forest. We're making sure 57 00:03:32,280 --> 00:03:34,640 Speaker 2: there's enough greenery in the city. And we know that 58 00:03:34,680 --> 00:03:38,080 Speaker 2: those things are becoming more important, not just because we 59 00:03:38,240 --> 00:03:40,720 Speaker 2: like trees and trees are good for our mental health, 60 00:03:41,040 --> 00:03:45,240 Speaker 2: but also trees provide enormous amounts of shelter, and that's 61 00:03:45,320 --> 00:03:48,760 Speaker 2: becoming more important. In some parts of the city, particularly 62 00:03:48,760 --> 00:03:52,280 Speaker 2: in the south of Auckland, where the sun is getting 63 00:03:52,280 --> 00:03:55,800 Speaker 2: hotter and stronger and the weather wilder, and we need 64 00:03:55,840 --> 00:03:58,400 Speaker 2: those kinds of protections too. So all of that's happening. 65 00:03:58,440 --> 00:04:01,480 Speaker 2: There is a big push for the city to become 66 00:04:01,720 --> 00:04:06,040 Speaker 2: more innovative. Question for Auckland is that we have pretty 67 00:04:06,120 --> 00:04:10,400 Speaker 2: highly educated population, pretty highly mobile, We are a relatively 68 00:04:10,400 --> 00:04:14,840 Speaker 2: wealthy country, and we have pretty good communication networks, and 69 00:04:14,960 --> 00:04:17,600 Speaker 2: all of those things ought to mean that we're very 70 00:04:17,600 --> 00:04:21,720 Speaker 2: well placed globally to become what's called an innovation city, 71 00:04:21,800 --> 00:04:26,080 Speaker 2: to be using technology to make the most of our 72 00:04:26,160 --> 00:04:30,239 Speaker 2: economic opportunities, and to do it from this fabulous place 73 00:04:30,360 --> 00:04:32,880 Speaker 2: so that we attract what Sir Paul Callahan used to 74 00:04:32,920 --> 00:04:36,400 Speaker 2: call the people to come and work, play and live 75 00:04:36,480 --> 00:04:39,360 Speaker 2: here because it's a great place to live and because 76 00:04:39,440 --> 00:04:43,040 Speaker 2: you can do the stimulating, interesting work that you want 77 00:04:43,080 --> 00:04:45,200 Speaker 2: to do that maybe you were doing in Europe or 78 00:04:45,240 --> 00:04:47,479 Speaker 2: Australia or America, that you come and to it in 79 00:04:47,480 --> 00:04:49,760 Speaker 2: New Zealand, come and do it in Auckland, where you 80 00:04:49,800 --> 00:04:52,760 Speaker 2: get all the advantages of the outdoor life as well 81 00:04:52,760 --> 00:04:56,400 Speaker 2: as the fascinating diverse society, and you still got those 82 00:04:56,440 --> 00:05:00,320 Speaker 2: economic advantages too. The problem with that vision is that 83 00:05:00,440 --> 00:05:03,520 Speaker 2: it is the vision of almost every city in the 84 00:05:03,560 --> 00:05:05,920 Speaker 2: world that's about the same sizes. 85 00:05:05,640 --> 00:05:08,520 Speaker 1: Right, yes, why should you choose all exactly? 86 00:05:08,640 --> 00:05:10,440 Speaker 2: So, what is the thing that is going to make 87 00:05:10,480 --> 00:05:12,599 Speaker 2: Auckland unique? And we can't be smug about it. We 88 00:05:12,680 --> 00:05:14,680 Speaker 2: can't just go We'll look. You know, it's a great 89 00:05:14,680 --> 00:05:16,760 Speaker 2: place to get your kayak out and get on the harbor, 90 00:05:16,839 --> 00:05:20,440 Speaker 2: go surfing or go tramping or whatever, because other people 91 00:05:20,440 --> 00:05:23,320 Speaker 2: offer those things too and can offer a better sentard 92 00:05:23,360 --> 00:05:25,920 Speaker 2: of living. We know, housing prices are really high here, 93 00:05:26,000 --> 00:05:28,159 Speaker 2: so there's a real barrier and those sorts of things. 94 00:05:28,320 --> 00:05:30,520 Speaker 2: You know, there are a range of issues that we 95 00:05:30,560 --> 00:05:33,800 Speaker 2: confront that we're not very good at confronting, and unless 96 00:05:33,800 --> 00:05:36,240 Speaker 2: we get much better at them, we risk being left 97 00:05:36,279 --> 00:05:40,520 Speaker 2: behind by other cities in Asia and Australia and in 98 00:05:40,560 --> 00:05:41,280 Speaker 2: other parts. 99 00:05:41,080 --> 00:05:45,719 Speaker 3: Of the world overall. When this new line opens, Auckland's 100 00:05:45,760 --> 00:05:48,919 Speaker 3: rail networks will start looking quite different. In addition to 101 00:05:48,960 --> 00:05:51,680 Speaker 3: the new and upgraded stations, the network will have far 102 00:05:51,839 --> 00:05:57,000 Speaker 3: more capacity, slightly more coverage, and much better cross city connections. 103 00:05:57,040 --> 00:06:00,240 Speaker 3: But in my view it's important as extra capacities to 104 00:06:00,279 --> 00:06:02,680 Speaker 3: good use While it will be most needed during the 105 00:06:02,720 --> 00:06:05,120 Speaker 3: busy peak periods, I want to see it be used 106 00:06:05,120 --> 00:06:08,280 Speaker 3: to boost off peak frequencies as well. There are many 107 00:06:08,320 --> 00:06:11,279 Speaker 3: stations in Auckland suburbs that only get trains every twenty 108 00:06:11,279 --> 00:06:14,160 Speaker 3: to thirty minutes and I'd like to see this improved 109 00:06:14,160 --> 00:06:16,280 Speaker 3: to more turn up and goes to our frequencies. 110 00:06:19,600 --> 00:06:21,520 Speaker 1: Well, one of those things that I guess that we're 111 00:06:21,560 --> 00:06:26,480 Speaker 1: not amazing at might be that cohesion in public transport. 112 00:06:26,600 --> 00:06:30,119 Speaker 1: Now seventy six percent I believe said that we lack 113 00:06:30,320 --> 00:06:33,640 Speaker 1: a cohesive public transport vision and I've got to agree 114 00:06:33,680 --> 00:06:37,000 Speaker 1: with them, But how much do you reckon the City 115 00:06:37,080 --> 00:06:40,719 Speaker 1: rail Link will better those results when it's open. 116 00:06:40,560 --> 00:06:42,719 Speaker 2: The Yeah, So the theory of the City rail Link 117 00:06:42,800 --> 00:06:45,839 Speaker 2: is that it will double patronage of our rail system. 118 00:06:46,120 --> 00:06:49,400 Speaker 2: And it doesn't mean that everybody's going to start catching 119 00:06:49,440 --> 00:06:52,080 Speaker 2: the train. It's not like that. You know, most people 120 00:06:52,160 --> 00:06:54,359 Speaker 2: don't live near a train station, but a lot of 121 00:06:54,360 --> 00:06:57,040 Speaker 2: people do. And when you think about congestion on the roads, 122 00:06:57,080 --> 00:07:00,520 Speaker 2: congestion was identified in the survey as the biggest single 123 00:07:00,640 --> 00:07:04,720 Speaker 2: transport problem to be solved. The problem with that is 124 00:07:04,760 --> 00:07:07,080 Speaker 2: that there are different ideas about how to solve it 125 00:07:07,560 --> 00:07:10,400 Speaker 2: right now. Some people say more roads, Some people say 126 00:07:10,520 --> 00:07:13,200 Speaker 2: better public transport, better cycling and so on, so that 127 00:07:13,240 --> 00:07:16,920 Speaker 2: you take people off the roads. Some people say congestion charging, 128 00:07:17,040 --> 00:07:20,280 Speaker 2: so that the busiest roads should be have a toll 129 00:07:20,320 --> 00:07:24,920 Speaker 2: on them at those times to discourage people from using them. 130 00:07:25,040 --> 00:07:28,240 Speaker 2: Then these debates are ongoing in relation to the CRL. 131 00:07:28,560 --> 00:07:33,000 Speaker 2: If you could move ten, twenty, even ten percent of 132 00:07:33,240 --> 00:07:36,520 Speaker 2: the population who are currently driving every day, you could 133 00:07:36,560 --> 00:07:40,680 Speaker 2: move them onto other forms of transport, onto public transport, 134 00:07:40,880 --> 00:07:44,920 Speaker 2: in particular, you would overnight, you would solve the congestion problem. 135 00:07:45,040 --> 00:07:47,760 Speaker 2: You would have streets that are freer than they currently 136 00:07:47,840 --> 00:07:50,520 Speaker 2: are during school holidays. So the CRL is a big 137 00:07:50,560 --> 00:07:52,680 Speaker 2: part of that is a big part of saying there 138 00:07:52,680 --> 00:07:55,200 Speaker 2: will be twice as many trains. The trains, the train 139 00:07:55,280 --> 00:07:57,960 Speaker 2: trips will be faster, They will take people further to 140 00:07:58,000 --> 00:07:59,920 Speaker 2: where they want to go, because if you're coming into 141 00:07:59,960 --> 00:08:02,320 Speaker 2: the city, you won't just be deposited at Britain Art. 142 00:08:02,320 --> 00:08:04,520 Speaker 2: You'll be able to get off at Cutting a Happy Road, 143 00:08:04,600 --> 00:08:08,000 Speaker 2: or get off at Midtown area now closer to perhaps 144 00:08:08,000 --> 00:08:09,920 Speaker 2: to where you work or where you study, and those 145 00:08:10,000 --> 00:08:13,960 Speaker 2: things will all make public transport more appealing. That's the 146 00:08:13,960 --> 00:08:16,560 Speaker 2: theory of that. And you know there are other things too. 147 00:08:17,600 --> 00:08:20,920 Speaker 2: If we had a concerted effort to have kids not 148 00:08:21,160 --> 00:08:23,880 Speaker 2: be driven to school, that would make a real material 149 00:08:23,920 --> 00:08:27,280 Speaker 2: difference to congestion on our roads, not just for in 150 00:08:27,360 --> 00:08:29,640 Speaker 2: terms of the school traffic, but also in terms of 151 00:08:29,640 --> 00:08:31,440 Speaker 2: people who you know. You drop the kids at school 152 00:08:31,480 --> 00:08:33,640 Speaker 2: and then you could drive on to work, or you 153 00:08:33,840 --> 00:08:35,319 Speaker 2: drive to work, so you might as well drop the 154 00:08:35,360 --> 00:08:37,920 Speaker 2: kids to school. It's a checking anything. If you could 155 00:08:37,920 --> 00:08:40,520 Speaker 2: break that, go back to a generation or two earlier 156 00:08:40,559 --> 00:08:43,600 Speaker 2: where that wasn't the norm. Now you'd make a big difference. 157 00:08:43,640 --> 00:08:47,439 Speaker 1: Again, I guess, how is it working having such diverse 158 00:08:47,640 --> 00:08:50,480 Speaker 1: parts of the city under the same council. You can 159 00:08:50,520 --> 00:08:53,360 Speaker 1: forget the further north you go from the city center. 160 00:08:53,480 --> 00:08:56,800 Speaker 1: Just how much is considered part of Auckland. Do the 161 00:08:56,800 --> 00:08:59,880 Speaker 1: people in say fung A Paroa have the same concern 162 00:09:00,200 --> 00:09:01,400 Speaker 1: as someone in Wayuku. 163 00:09:01,679 --> 00:09:04,960 Speaker 2: Often they don't. If they're stuck on the motorway and traffic, 164 00:09:05,000 --> 00:09:07,679 Speaker 2: then they essentially do have the same concerns. If you 165 00:09:07,720 --> 00:09:12,640 Speaker 2: think about Fungapara, so that's a relatively developed suburban area 166 00:09:12,679 --> 00:09:15,600 Speaker 2: that's a good distance away from the city, different from Wayuku, 167 00:09:15,640 --> 00:09:18,160 Speaker 2: which is very rural. A lot of Auckland now is 168 00:09:18,360 --> 00:09:21,480 Speaker 2: rural geographically, but not many people live there now. Most 169 00:09:21,480 --> 00:09:24,160 Speaker 2: people live in the built up areas. Of course, by definition. 170 00:09:24,280 --> 00:09:26,240 Speaker 2: The example that people always used to give when the 171 00:09:26,280 --> 00:09:28,640 Speaker 2: supercity was formed was what are we going to do 172 00:09:28,679 --> 00:09:31,920 Speaker 2: about our waterfront? And there were so many different local 173 00:09:31,960 --> 00:09:35,319 Speaker 2: authorities that had different points of view that nothing ever happened. 174 00:09:35,360 --> 00:09:38,800 Speaker 2: Since the super City, the waterfront of Auckland has developed 175 00:09:39,360 --> 00:09:43,240 Speaker 2: quite significantly. So you think about Queen's Wharf was given 176 00:09:43,280 --> 00:09:46,040 Speaker 2: back to or Council and became they wanted to make 177 00:09:46,040 --> 00:09:48,680 Speaker 2: it the People's Wharf, the renovation of Shed ten. They're 178 00:09:48,760 --> 00:09:52,480 Speaker 2: the North Wharf area, that the viaduct, which was pre 179 00:09:52,600 --> 00:09:55,680 Speaker 2: Supercity but has continued to evolve, the North Warf area. 180 00:09:55,920 --> 00:09:59,120 Speaker 2: There are cycleways, there are great recreational areas. There are 181 00:09:59,200 --> 00:10:01,760 Speaker 2: lots of things for people to do that are free, 182 00:10:01,800 --> 00:10:04,320 Speaker 2: as well as going drink and eating, the bars and 183 00:10:04,360 --> 00:10:06,679 Speaker 2: restaurants and so on. You think about the sale GP 184 00:10:06,960 --> 00:10:10,680 Speaker 2: thing last summer, where there was enormous, enormous popular support 185 00:10:10,760 --> 00:10:13,000 Speaker 2: for events that people could get to. Those sorts of 186 00:10:13,000 --> 00:10:15,840 Speaker 2: things have all evolved and been made possible because of 187 00:10:15,840 --> 00:10:19,080 Speaker 2: the super city. It's been easier to plan, easier to organize, 188 00:10:19,120 --> 00:10:23,760 Speaker 2: easier to get approval and funding for that kind of development. 189 00:10:24,559 --> 00:10:27,640 Speaker 2: That's the upside. The downside is that it's a city 190 00:10:27,679 --> 00:10:30,920 Speaker 2: of one point seven million people. There are twenty one 191 00:10:31,120 --> 00:10:35,599 Speaker 2: local boards, most of them have populations that are bigger 192 00:10:35,640 --> 00:10:39,400 Speaker 2: than most other cities in the country, and they have 193 00:10:39,880 --> 00:10:43,960 Speaker 2: local boards which are part time members. They don't have 194 00:10:44,200 --> 00:10:47,520 Speaker 2: anything like the funding of other city councils. So there 195 00:10:47,600 --> 00:10:51,360 Speaker 2: is a real gap at the local democratic level now 196 00:10:51,559 --> 00:10:55,640 Speaker 2: between decisions that get made centrally by Auckland councils centrally 197 00:10:55,760 --> 00:11:00,120 Speaker 2: and people's aspirations in their neighborhoods and their suburbs. And 198 00:11:00,160 --> 00:11:03,240 Speaker 2: that's very hard to know how to bridge because you know, 199 00:11:03,559 --> 00:11:05,760 Speaker 2: the one obvious way to bridge it would be to say, 200 00:11:05,840 --> 00:11:09,760 Speaker 2: let's have lots more democratic engagement. Let's have lots more 201 00:11:09,800 --> 00:11:14,000 Speaker 2: opportunity for people in local areas to belong to committees 202 00:11:14,040 --> 00:11:16,920 Speaker 2: and communities where they can feed in ideas and have 203 00:11:17,320 --> 00:11:19,880 Speaker 2: a say in what happens. But nobody's very keen on 204 00:11:20,040 --> 00:11:22,880 Speaker 2: paying for that. Nobody wants to have that kind of 205 00:11:22,920 --> 00:11:25,360 Speaker 2: local democracy where we've got lots and lots and lots 206 00:11:25,360 --> 00:11:29,240 Speaker 2: of officials. That's quite problematic. Decision making is removed and 207 00:11:29,520 --> 00:11:32,080 Speaker 2: nobody has a real has a clear answer. 208 00:11:41,320 --> 00:11:44,120 Speaker 1: And I can imagine the funding in these small areas 209 00:11:44,160 --> 00:11:46,439 Speaker 1: as well. I mean, I'm just thinking about a situation 210 00:11:46,679 --> 00:11:49,880 Speaker 1: perhaps where a local board is petitioning for a zebra 211 00:11:49,960 --> 00:11:54,440 Speaker 1: crossing in their town center versus what that money could do, 212 00:11:54,559 --> 00:11:57,440 Speaker 1: say for the waterfront in the viaduct, and how like 213 00:11:58,200 --> 00:12:01,720 Speaker 1: who along that line would that local board need to 214 00:12:01,760 --> 00:12:05,200 Speaker 1: go through to get the funding for that zebra crossing, 215 00:12:05,200 --> 00:12:06,959 Speaker 1: because I can probably tell you right now that that 216 00:12:07,280 --> 00:12:09,640 Speaker 1: funding is probably going to go towards something in the city, 217 00:12:09,720 --> 00:12:10,920 Speaker 1: right Actually. 218 00:12:10,600 --> 00:12:14,800 Speaker 2: No, no, no, So that the council in its fifteen 219 00:12:14,880 --> 00:12:17,480 Speaker 2: years has had slightly different ways of organizing how the 220 00:12:17,520 --> 00:12:20,080 Speaker 2: money is spent, but it's always been driven by the 221 00:12:20,160 --> 00:12:23,160 Speaker 2: idea that there will be pots of money for each 222 00:12:23,240 --> 00:12:26,200 Speaker 2: of the local areas. So if there is money to 223 00:12:26,280 --> 00:12:29,880 Speaker 2: be spent in your area and your local board wants 224 00:12:29,880 --> 00:12:32,520 Speaker 2: a zebra crossing there, that money won't be taken and 225 00:12:32,640 --> 00:12:35,560 Speaker 2: used in another local board area or in downtown, right, 226 00:12:35,960 --> 00:12:38,920 Speaker 2: that will be allocated to the local board to spend 227 00:12:38,960 --> 00:12:41,760 Speaker 2: in that way, they might have to persuade Auckland Transport 228 00:12:42,320 --> 00:12:45,000 Speaker 2: that it's worth having. An Auckland Transport might come back 229 00:12:45,040 --> 00:12:47,320 Speaker 2: to them and say, well, we've got twenty requirements for 230 00:12:47,400 --> 00:12:50,280 Speaker 2: more zebra crossings and yours, in terms of the risks 231 00:12:50,320 --> 00:12:52,640 Speaker 2: that we've measured, is only number ten, so we can't 232 00:12:52,679 --> 00:12:54,360 Speaker 2: do it this year. Now, that might happen, and you 233 00:12:54,440 --> 00:12:56,720 Speaker 2: have an ongoing debate about that, because the local board 234 00:12:56,760 --> 00:12:59,679 Speaker 2: will say, but this is our priority, so therefore they 235 00:12:59,679 --> 00:13:03,160 Speaker 2: should listened to. Transport will say well, it's not our priority. 236 00:13:03,200 --> 00:13:06,320 Speaker 2: And that's a clash that is not managed very well 237 00:13:06,360 --> 00:13:08,480 Speaker 2: all the time. Now, so you do get that tension. 238 00:13:08,520 --> 00:13:11,320 Speaker 2: But Auckland Transport can't say, well, the money you want 239 00:13:11,320 --> 00:13:13,200 Speaker 2: to spend on the zebra crossing, we're going to spend 240 00:13:13,240 --> 00:13:14,439 Speaker 2: it in another part of the city. 241 00:13:14,480 --> 00:13:16,880 Speaker 1: They can't say that, right, So I'm going down a 242 00:13:16,920 --> 00:13:19,880 Speaker 1: conspiratorial path, am I. 243 00:13:19,880 --> 00:13:21,440 Speaker 3: I'll put my pitchfork away. 244 00:13:21,600 --> 00:13:24,880 Speaker 2: Having just said that, local boards would probably say we 245 00:13:24,920 --> 00:13:28,280 Speaker 2: want more money. You know, there was a under an 246 00:13:28,320 --> 00:13:31,160 Speaker 2: earlier there there was a proposal. Can't remember the exact 247 00:13:31,200 --> 00:13:33,040 Speaker 2: wording of it, but it was the one, the one 248 00:13:33,080 --> 00:13:35,760 Speaker 2: big project. Each local board had to say, this is 249 00:13:35,840 --> 00:13:38,040 Speaker 2: the one thing we want to fund and they only 250 00:13:38,080 --> 00:13:38,480 Speaker 2: got one. 251 00:13:39,160 --> 00:13:39,600 Speaker 4: Oh wow. 252 00:13:39,720 --> 00:13:41,880 Speaker 2: So there was this pot of each of them had 253 00:13:41,880 --> 00:13:44,920 Speaker 2: a pot of a reasonablysizeable amount of money and they 254 00:13:44,960 --> 00:13:49,480 Speaker 2: got to decide each one and that led to some problems. 255 00:13:49,600 --> 00:13:52,199 Speaker 2: That system isn't quite in place now, so it's always 256 00:13:52,200 --> 00:13:54,439 Speaker 2: evolving the way the city city works. But that led 257 00:13:54,480 --> 00:13:57,160 Speaker 2: to some problems where what about project number two and 258 00:13:57,200 --> 00:13:59,280 Speaker 2: three and four? Are they just not going to happen? 259 00:13:59,400 --> 00:14:01,280 Speaker 2: You know those things are going to be important too, 260 00:14:01,280 --> 00:14:03,280 Speaker 2: And that was one of the problems. Another problem was 261 00:14:03,400 --> 00:14:06,080 Speaker 2: you had a case out and with a couple of 262 00:14:06,080 --> 00:14:08,480 Speaker 2: local boards near each other. Both of them wanted and 263 00:14:08,679 --> 00:14:11,439 Speaker 2: entertainment a recreation center, and they both got They both 264 00:14:11,640 --> 00:14:14,920 Speaker 2: made those projects their one project, and they were pretty 265 00:14:14,960 --> 00:14:17,320 Speaker 2: close to each other, only a kilometer or so apart, 266 00:14:17,400 --> 00:14:21,120 Speaker 2: and the city planning didn't need those two centers so 267 00:14:21,200 --> 00:14:23,160 Speaker 2: close to each other. But the idea of the local 268 00:14:23,160 --> 00:14:26,160 Speaker 2: boards deciding meant that that was progressing. I think in 269 00:14:26,160 --> 00:14:28,280 Speaker 2: fact that got stopped in the end. But you can 270 00:14:28,280 --> 00:14:30,840 Speaker 2: see the problem that would be there. How you balance 271 00:14:30,960 --> 00:14:35,080 Speaker 2: central planning with local important local decision making every day 272 00:14:35,280 --> 00:14:37,560 Speaker 2: is a problem. It doesn't mean it's not worth doing, 273 00:14:38,440 --> 00:14:40,480 Speaker 2: and it's but that is part of the thing that 274 00:14:41,280 --> 00:14:42,800 Speaker 2: the council engages with. 275 00:14:43,040 --> 00:14:43,200 Speaker 3: Now. 276 00:14:43,240 --> 00:14:45,840 Speaker 1: I know that the rest of the country probably rolls 277 00:14:45,920 --> 00:14:48,920 Speaker 1: their eyes and hates when we center in on Auckland, 278 00:14:49,160 --> 00:14:52,480 Speaker 1: But something Deloitte Chief Executive Mike Horn said in the 279 00:14:52,520 --> 00:14:55,680 Speaker 1: research stuck out to me. He said, if Auckland isn't 280 00:14:55,800 --> 00:15:01,200 Speaker 1: competing globally, then New Zealand will suffer. Couple of things here. Firstly, 281 00:15:01,320 --> 00:15:04,280 Speaker 1: do you think the country needs to accept that in 282 00:15:04,480 --> 00:15:07,760 Speaker 1: order to thrive, Auckland needs to do well. 283 00:15:08,200 --> 00:15:10,040 Speaker 2: I think that's right. And one of the things about 284 00:15:10,080 --> 00:15:12,600 Speaker 2: Auckland is that we have something like a third of 285 00:15:12,640 --> 00:15:15,720 Speaker 2: the population and I think thirty eight percent of the GDP. 286 00:15:15,920 --> 00:15:19,120 Speaker 2: Now that's quite low for a major city. So the 287 00:15:19,240 --> 00:15:23,280 Speaker 2: GDP in London compared to the British GDP is much higher. 288 00:15:23,640 --> 00:15:26,760 Speaker 2: In other countries where there is one big city as 289 00:15:26,800 --> 00:15:29,120 Speaker 2: we have, you would expect it to be higher than 290 00:15:29,520 --> 00:15:32,880 Speaker 2: the proportion that we have. So that that is a 291 00:15:32,880 --> 00:15:34,840 Speaker 2: problem for the city now and a problem for the 292 00:15:34,840 --> 00:15:40,160 Speaker 2: country New Zealand has. If our farming, if our agriculture 293 00:15:40,200 --> 00:15:44,080 Speaker 2: isn't doing well, we are in trouble as our whole country. 294 00:15:44,160 --> 00:15:46,680 Speaker 2: It's not just farmers in trouble. We're all in trouble 295 00:15:46,680 --> 00:15:49,040 Speaker 2: if it isn't doing well. We know that, but that 296 00:15:49,200 --> 00:15:52,640 Speaker 2: is also true about Auckland itself. Auckland is such a 297 00:15:52,720 --> 00:15:56,760 Speaker 2: powerhouse economically now that if it isn't doing well, then 298 00:15:56,760 --> 00:15:58,920 Speaker 2: the country suffers as well. So we need from a 299 00:15:59,040 --> 00:16:02,720 Speaker 2: national perspective, we need planning to do both those things 300 00:16:02,800 --> 00:16:06,760 Speaker 2: as well as keep the regions viable so they're worth living. 301 00:16:06,840 --> 00:16:09,640 Speaker 2: And we don't want everybody to come to Auckland because 302 00:16:09,640 --> 00:16:11,760 Speaker 2: that's just that's there would be a nightmare. 303 00:16:11,440 --> 00:16:15,240 Speaker 1: For everyone road through a nightmare aready, right, and there aren't. 304 00:16:15,040 --> 00:16:16,720 Speaker 2: The houses and all the rest of it. And you 305 00:16:16,800 --> 00:16:19,720 Speaker 2: want the regions to be viable, but you also need 306 00:16:20,240 --> 00:16:23,960 Speaker 2: that central city to be strong. And as you say, 307 00:16:24,200 --> 00:16:27,440 Speaker 2: the Deloitte chief executive Mike Horn saying, we need to 308 00:16:27,560 --> 00:16:30,160 Speaker 2: understand that's that's one of the things he said that. 309 00:16:30,200 --> 00:16:34,640 Speaker 2: He also says, we've had an incremental approach to development 310 00:16:34,760 --> 00:16:36,920 Speaker 2: and that has to change because it's meant to be 311 00:16:36,960 --> 00:16:40,040 Speaker 2: slipping away. You know, I've been following the super city 312 00:16:40,080 --> 00:16:42,920 Speaker 2: since it was formed in twenty ten, and the first 313 00:16:42,960 --> 00:16:45,760 Speaker 2: to me, Lenn Brown, always used to say, don't fret 314 00:16:46,040 --> 00:16:49,960 Speaker 2: about the fact that we're not getting big transformative change 315 00:16:49,960 --> 00:16:52,800 Speaker 2: happening straight away. Every little bit helps. We will do 316 00:16:52,880 --> 00:16:55,440 Speaker 2: this incremental thing, and it will build on the last 317 00:16:55,720 --> 00:16:57,600 Speaker 2: and we will keep building on it and the next 318 00:16:57,600 --> 00:17:00,320 Speaker 2: and the next. And that is how most polots tix 319 00:17:00,400 --> 00:17:03,920 Speaker 2: works most of the time. It's the reality of politics. 320 00:17:04,320 --> 00:17:07,399 Speaker 2: And he knew that, and the city was progressing. But 321 00:17:07,640 --> 00:17:11,919 Speaker 2: what Mike Horn is saying is that actually that isn't enough. 322 00:17:12,160 --> 00:17:17,240 Speaker 2: We understand that we are not making ourselves attractive enough 323 00:17:17,320 --> 00:17:19,840 Speaker 2: for the world's best and brightest to come and live 324 00:17:19,920 --> 00:17:23,000 Speaker 2: and work here, for the world's entrepreneurs to want to 325 00:17:23,000 --> 00:17:26,080 Speaker 2: set up here and put money into the New Zealand economy. 326 00:17:26,119 --> 00:17:28,560 Speaker 2: We understand we need to transform in order to do that. 327 00:17:28,640 --> 00:17:32,320 Speaker 2: We also understand that you can't just make the buses 328 00:17:32,320 --> 00:17:34,399 Speaker 2: a bit more efficient and I hope to transform the 329 00:17:35,000 --> 00:17:37,800 Speaker 2: transport system. You've got to be thinking bigger about it 330 00:17:37,880 --> 00:17:41,160 Speaker 2: than that. You can't just make the schools a little 331 00:17:41,160 --> 00:17:44,040 Speaker 2: bit better and hope to transform the problems we have 332 00:17:44,080 --> 00:17:46,320 Speaker 2: an education. You've got to do better than that. You 333 00:17:46,359 --> 00:17:48,639 Speaker 2: can't just build a few more houses and solve the 334 00:17:48,680 --> 00:17:51,280 Speaker 2: housing crisis. You've got to build a lot more houses 335 00:17:51,320 --> 00:17:53,920 Speaker 2: to solve the housing crisis and on it. Guys, how 336 00:17:54,000 --> 00:17:57,679 Speaker 2: we get how we do those transformative things is extremely 337 00:17:57,760 --> 00:18:02,080 Speaker 2: difficult because probably most people are reasonably comfortable with the 338 00:18:02,160 --> 00:18:06,520 Speaker 2: idea that we as The survey shows very high support 339 00:18:06,600 --> 00:18:13,320 Speaker 2: for density done well, particularly around transport hubs. Doesn't follow 340 00:18:13,320 --> 00:18:15,080 Speaker 2: that you want more density in your street? 341 00:18:15,800 --> 00:18:21,399 Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, What are your thoughts on living in Auckland. 342 00:18:21,640 --> 00:18:24,520 Speaker 4: Auckland is expensive. I've lived overseas a lot and being 343 00:18:24,560 --> 00:18:27,080 Speaker 4: back two years and coming back I was shocked. 344 00:18:27,080 --> 00:18:27,800 Speaker 3: It's not too bad. 345 00:18:27,840 --> 00:18:28,680 Speaker 4: It can be expensive. 346 00:18:28,680 --> 00:18:29,840 Speaker 3: Sometimes it's inflation. 347 00:18:29,960 --> 00:18:30,760 Speaker 4: But yeah, I. 348 00:18:31,000 --> 00:18:33,439 Speaker 1: Got a UNI and I have to pay for parking 349 00:18:34,119 --> 00:18:34,880 Speaker 1: for the train station. 350 00:18:35,000 --> 00:18:35,920 Speaker 3: I guess you do a bet of it. 351 00:18:36,200 --> 00:18:37,880 Speaker 1: But even then sometimes it's not enough. 352 00:18:37,920 --> 00:18:40,480 Speaker 3: How much are you paying for renting here in Auten City. 353 00:18:40,840 --> 00:18:43,680 Speaker 4: I'm sharing with somebody, so my share is four hundred 354 00:18:43,720 --> 00:18:48,399 Speaker 4: and fifty dollars one week. I just done that in Thailane, Cambodia. 355 00:18:48,440 --> 00:18:50,320 Speaker 4: I was paying four hundred dollars for one month. 356 00:18:50,440 --> 00:18:53,280 Speaker 3: Get the government to bring some things down, take some 357 00:18:53,320 --> 00:18:55,520 Speaker 3: money out of things that's unnecessary and put into things 358 00:18:55,600 --> 00:18:56,240 Speaker 3: actually matter. 359 00:19:01,160 --> 00:19:02,919 Speaker 1: And we're already I mean, I guess we're in that 360 00:19:02,960 --> 00:19:08,240 Speaker 1: catch twenty two, because we're already paying London Sydney New 361 00:19:08,320 --> 00:19:11,639 Speaker 1: York prices to live in Auckland. And it's kind of 362 00:19:11,680 --> 00:19:13,560 Speaker 1: like that thing, Well, why should you get paid more 363 00:19:13,600 --> 00:19:16,080 Speaker 1: at work when you're doing the work you are at 364 00:19:16,080 --> 00:19:17,960 Speaker 1: the moment for the pay that you're getting. You know, 365 00:19:18,080 --> 00:19:21,200 Speaker 1: it's just like why why should the city thrive and 366 00:19:21,240 --> 00:19:25,080 Speaker 1: why should it better itself when everyone is paying these 367 00:19:25,119 --> 00:19:28,320 Speaker 1: prices to live here? Anyway? Like, what's the incentive there 368 00:19:28,320 --> 00:19:30,800 Speaker 1: for people to attract more people? Well, we've got one 369 00:19:30,800 --> 00:19:34,719 Speaker 1: point seven million people here already, what's going to What 370 00:19:34,840 --> 00:19:37,280 Speaker 1: is it going to take, I guess for us to 371 00:19:37,359 --> 00:19:40,119 Speaker 1: make that jump and just to really fasten things up 372 00:19:40,160 --> 00:19:41,919 Speaker 1: and get to the Sydney, get to the New York, 373 00:19:41,960 --> 00:19:42,720 Speaker 1: get to the London. 374 00:19:42,960 --> 00:19:48,840 Speaker 2: I would argue that we need a housing price structure 375 00:19:49,200 --> 00:19:52,200 Speaker 2: that means there are enough places for everybody to live. 376 00:19:52,640 --> 00:19:54,560 Speaker 2: That's at all the different price points and all the 377 00:19:54,600 --> 00:19:57,640 Speaker 2: different types of housing. Now you can't just look after 378 00:19:57,680 --> 00:20:00,800 Speaker 2: a certain proportion of the population in that way. An 379 00:20:00,800 --> 00:20:03,479 Speaker 2: awful lot follows from housing. If people have got decent housing, 380 00:20:03,560 --> 00:20:06,719 Speaker 2: then they're more likely that their families will be healthier, 381 00:20:06,840 --> 00:20:09,280 Speaker 2: more likely to be kids going to school. Now more 382 00:20:09,400 --> 00:20:12,200 Speaker 2: likely people are in work and able to stay and work. 383 00:20:12,240 --> 00:20:15,320 Speaker 2: All of those things follow from having a place, a 384 00:20:15,320 --> 00:20:18,120 Speaker 2: secure or and dry, safe place to live, So that's 385 00:20:18,160 --> 00:20:21,840 Speaker 2: really important. Beyond that though, what's the point of difference 386 00:20:21,840 --> 00:20:26,080 Speaker 2: for Auckland, Well, in terms of big cities. You know 387 00:20:26,480 --> 00:20:29,080 Speaker 2: something somebody said to me once when I first moved 388 00:20:29,119 --> 00:20:31,520 Speaker 2: to Auckland, which is over twenty years ago. They said, 389 00:20:31,600 --> 00:20:33,680 Speaker 2: what I like about it is the mess. What he 390 00:20:33,840 --> 00:20:36,600 Speaker 2: meant was, you walk down the street. You don't know 391 00:20:36,640 --> 00:20:39,040 Speaker 2: who you're going to meet or see, you don't know 392 00:20:39,119 --> 00:20:42,520 Speaker 2: what you're going to see, you don't know what might 393 00:20:42,720 --> 00:20:47,400 Speaker 2: have been changing. It's always stimulating. And that's a big 394 00:20:47,440 --> 00:20:50,200 Speaker 2: city thing where the fact that it doesn't quite work 395 00:20:50,240 --> 00:20:53,320 Speaker 2: properly but people make it work for them. If that 396 00:20:53,520 --> 00:20:56,600 Speaker 2: is possible, that can be pretty exciting. You know. One 397 00:20:56,640 --> 00:20:59,720 Speaker 2: of the things that means is that really cool little 398 00:20:59,760 --> 00:21:01,879 Speaker 2: bar there that those people set up in a place 399 00:21:01,920 --> 00:21:03,800 Speaker 2: that doesn't even seem like it should be a bar, 400 00:21:04,119 --> 00:21:07,080 Speaker 2: but hell, they're now music venue. And you know, if 401 00:21:07,080 --> 00:21:09,360 Speaker 2: you think about a place like Wammy Bar in Auckland, 402 00:21:09,480 --> 00:21:14,359 Speaker 2: that seems nonsense. It's an underground and it doesn't seem 403 00:21:14,359 --> 00:21:16,200 Speaker 2: big enough and all the rest of it. But people 404 00:21:16,240 --> 00:21:18,440 Speaker 2: make do People make do with the mess, and when 405 00:21:18,440 --> 00:21:21,000 Speaker 2: they can do that and thrive, you get that happening 406 00:21:21,000 --> 00:21:22,919 Speaker 2: in all the different sorts of ways, and that can 407 00:21:22,960 --> 00:21:25,840 Speaker 2: be very exciting to live in. So we need that 408 00:21:26,480 --> 00:21:28,960 Speaker 2: you need, and it means that you need, as I 409 00:21:29,000 --> 00:21:32,280 Speaker 2: said before, place to live. It also means that you 410 00:21:32,400 --> 00:21:34,679 Speaker 2: know that you're not going to spend too much of 411 00:21:34,720 --> 00:21:37,239 Speaker 2: your life stuff stuck in traffic. You've got to have 412 00:21:37,359 --> 00:21:40,679 Speaker 2: viable alternatives to that, and you've got to have a 413 00:21:40,840 --> 00:21:44,119 Speaker 2: sense in the economy that there are opportunities for people 414 00:21:44,160 --> 00:21:47,800 Speaker 2: that people can move on up and take risks and 415 00:21:48,000 --> 00:21:50,600 Speaker 2: make money. You've got to have those things happening, and 416 00:21:50,640 --> 00:21:53,320 Speaker 2: if they are all happening, then big City has become exciting. 417 00:21:53,480 --> 00:22:00,439 Speaker 1: Thanks for joining us, Simon, Thank you. It's it's for 418 00:22:00,480 --> 00:22:03,560 Speaker 1: this episode of the Front Page. You can read more 419 00:22:03,560 --> 00:22:08,240 Speaker 1: about today's stories and extensive news coverage at enzdherld dot 420 00:22:08,280 --> 00:22:11,919 Speaker 1: co dot nz. The Front Page is produced by Ethan 421 00:22:12,080 --> 00:22:15,879 Speaker 1: Sills and Richard Martin, who is also our sound engineer. 422 00:22:16,320 --> 00:22:20,760 Speaker 1: I'm Chelsea Daniels. Subscribe to the Front Page on iHeartRadio 423 00:22:20,960 --> 00:22:24,440 Speaker 1: or wherever you get your podcasts, and tune in tomorrow 424 00:22:24,600 --> 00:22:26,760 Speaker 1: for another look behind the headlines.