1 00:00:00,080 --> 00:00:03,000 Speaker 1: Tricius and Shush and Willis pr and Josie Pagani, CEEO 2 00:00:03,040 --> 00:00:05,400 Speaker 1: at Child Fund on the huddle tonight, good evening, Hello, 3 00:00:05,680 --> 00:00:08,280 Speaker 1: good to have you both here. Tricia's the government changing 4 00:00:08,280 --> 00:00:11,879 Speaker 1: its changing its tune on you know, this idea that 5 00:00:11,920 --> 00:00:15,280 Speaker 1: the government should actually spend something that it might grow 6 00:00:15,400 --> 00:00:17,160 Speaker 1: something as a result. 7 00:00:17,880 --> 00:00:23,079 Speaker 2: It feels to me like the government every sort of 8 00:00:23,200 --> 00:00:26,520 Speaker 2: Sunday goes to the fridge and has a look and says, now, 9 00:00:27,240 --> 00:00:30,760 Speaker 2: what in here can we reheat? What can we pop 10 00:00:30,800 --> 00:00:33,000 Speaker 2: in the microwave and serve up to the electorate to 11 00:00:33,080 --> 00:00:36,800 Speaker 2: show progress. That is very that's very facetious. 12 00:00:37,400 --> 00:00:38,080 Speaker 3: That's very good. 13 00:00:38,080 --> 00:00:41,680 Speaker 2: Though I think that they have to be careful that 14 00:00:42,040 --> 00:00:45,960 Speaker 2: the electric doesn't tire of this because don't forget for 15 00:00:46,080 --> 00:00:49,120 Speaker 2: most people while they all look today and they'll go look, 16 00:00:50,040 --> 00:00:52,680 Speaker 2: it's good to see investment in hospitals. It's good to 17 00:00:52,680 --> 00:00:56,400 Speaker 2: see investment in schools that's not making any difference in 18 00:00:56,480 --> 00:00:59,080 Speaker 2: their hip pocket, and that's where they have been hit 19 00:00:59,200 --> 00:01:03,600 Speaker 2: in the last few year years. I think that one 20 00:01:03,640 --> 00:01:06,720 Speaker 2: of the things around the schools is that we know 21 00:01:07,120 --> 00:01:10,760 Speaker 2: Erika Stanford is a minister who actually really gets shited 22 00:01:10,760 --> 00:01:16,160 Speaker 2: done and where governments have struggled is that people lose 23 00:01:16,160 --> 00:01:18,800 Speaker 2: confidence because they don't get the delivery. So I have 24 00:01:18,880 --> 00:01:22,199 Speaker 2: confidence that Erica Stanford will get this done. I don't 25 00:01:22,240 --> 00:01:25,240 Speaker 2: think it will move the needle, particularly in terms of 26 00:01:25,280 --> 00:01:28,199 Speaker 2: the polls, because, as I say, the voters are worried 27 00:01:28,240 --> 00:01:30,600 Speaker 2: about their hip pockets. But the other thing I think 28 00:01:30,640 --> 00:01:33,759 Speaker 2: the government needs to be cautious of is that the 29 00:01:33,800 --> 00:01:38,080 Speaker 2: government is not the economy. And right now I can 30 00:01:38,120 --> 00:01:43,959 Speaker 2: tell you of several potentially major projects around Auckland that 31 00:01:44,120 --> 00:01:47,480 Speaker 2: are still being held up because they are tied up 32 00:01:47,520 --> 00:01:51,760 Speaker 2: in local government planning. They are tied up in waiting 33 00:01:51,840 --> 00:01:54,560 Speaker 2: to get on the fast track and not knowing how 34 00:01:54,600 --> 00:01:57,840 Speaker 2: long that will take. One of those is potentially up 35 00:01:57,840 --> 00:02:01,320 Speaker 2: to a billion dollars of one development that would attract 36 00:02:01,360 --> 00:02:05,680 Speaker 2: others near Auckland. And the other story which underpins this 37 00:02:05,720 --> 00:02:08,760 Speaker 2: for me is you know another major developer who said 38 00:02:08,760 --> 00:02:11,080 Speaker 2: to me recently, well, we're just not even going to 39 00:02:11,120 --> 00:02:14,399 Speaker 2: go down the process of this major redevelopment right now 40 00:02:14,440 --> 00:02:17,200 Speaker 2: because it's at least half a million dollars just to 41 00:02:17,320 --> 00:02:20,959 Speaker 2: run through the resource consenting process with no guarantee what's 42 00:02:21,000 --> 00:02:22,920 Speaker 2: coming out the other side. So I would say to 43 00:02:22,960 --> 00:02:27,360 Speaker 2: the government, you have to keep focusing on allowing the 44 00:02:27,440 --> 00:02:30,200 Speaker 2: New Zealand businesses to be the economy and do the 45 00:02:30,280 --> 00:02:33,760 Speaker 2: growing and keep on, you know, making sure you're getting 46 00:02:33,800 --> 00:02:35,440 Speaker 2: the barriers out of the way for them to do that. 47 00:02:36,520 --> 00:02:38,960 Speaker 3: They've actually announced a lot today, haven't they. I mean 48 00:02:38,960 --> 00:02:42,519 Speaker 3: there's the Dutith Colins digital stuff, which is actually game 49 00:02:42,639 --> 00:02:46,799 Speaker 3: changing if you start putting all government services available digitally, 50 00:02:47,639 --> 00:02:50,520 Speaker 3: the schools announcement, the hospitals and so on, so you 51 00:02:50,560 --> 00:02:52,240 Speaker 3: know they'll be feeling like, you know, God, we keep 52 00:02:52,240 --> 00:02:54,840 Speaker 3: announcing stuff and it's just not moving the dial. And 53 00:02:55,160 --> 00:02:58,240 Speaker 3: I think you're right Ryan that they've fallen between do 54 00:02:58,320 --> 00:03:02,240 Speaker 3: they do stimulus and risk more debt and inflation or 55 00:03:02,280 --> 00:03:07,160 Speaker 3: do they cut and risk austerity and being unpopular. And 56 00:03:07,200 --> 00:03:10,040 Speaker 3: I think they've been falling between those two things. I mean, 57 00:03:10,040 --> 00:03:12,520 Speaker 3: the real problem. We've got the construction sector which is 58 00:03:12,560 --> 00:03:17,040 Speaker 3: on a downturn. We've got energy which is overpriced. We're 59 00:03:17,160 --> 00:03:22,400 Speaker 3: deindustrializing New Zealand, our manufacturing sectors, you know, dying. So 60 00:03:23,160 --> 00:03:26,600 Speaker 3: they need something big that captures the imagination. And I 61 00:03:26,639 --> 00:03:28,639 Speaker 3: was looking back at Tony Blair when he first came 62 00:03:28,720 --> 00:03:32,120 Speaker 3: into power and his first Party conference. He said, the 63 00:03:32,160 --> 00:03:37,240 Speaker 3: biggest priority in this government is three things. Education, education, education, 64 00:03:37,920 --> 00:03:39,760 Speaker 3: and I feel like they need to go Is it 65 00:03:39,920 --> 00:03:44,560 Speaker 3: education Erica Stanford's doing a lot. Is it reforming the 66 00:03:44,560 --> 00:03:48,760 Speaker 3: public sector so that they deliver government services better? Is 67 00:03:48,800 --> 00:03:51,000 Speaker 3: it competition? And do you need to go hard on 68 00:03:51,000 --> 00:03:54,600 Speaker 3: competition and do really big things like maybe break up Fronterira. 69 00:03:54,760 --> 00:03:56,960 Speaker 3: I don't know, you know, not just the supermarkets. And 70 00:03:57,040 --> 00:03:59,560 Speaker 3: I feel like they can't prioritize one big thing that 71 00:03:59,560 --> 00:04:01,640 Speaker 3: they're going to do that we all get. This is 72 00:04:01,680 --> 00:04:04,480 Speaker 3: the government that changed education or changed competition. 73 00:04:04,800 --> 00:04:07,240 Speaker 2: But the problem is we're in I think that the 74 00:04:07,240 --> 00:04:09,080 Speaker 2: government would feel they've done that. This is the year 75 00:04:09,120 --> 00:04:12,320 Speaker 2: of growth, right, It's growth, growth, growth. You can't not 76 00:04:12,480 --> 00:04:16,520 Speaker 2: have had that message. But again the problem is that 77 00:04:16,600 --> 00:04:20,560 Speaker 2: for businesses there is just still too much in the 78 00:04:20,600 --> 00:04:23,320 Speaker 2: way of them being able to invest and grow. And 79 00:04:23,360 --> 00:04:28,520 Speaker 2: this is where the government's message has really become not 80 00:04:28,760 --> 00:04:33,480 Speaker 2: calibrated with reality. So I have heard repeatedly ministers saying, oh, 81 00:04:33,600 --> 00:04:36,000 Speaker 2: we've done all this, now this is great. Now businesses 82 00:04:36,040 --> 00:04:39,080 Speaker 2: can start investing, they can start creating jobs. What they 83 00:04:39,120 --> 00:04:42,280 Speaker 2: have forgotten is that for a lot of businesses, the 84 00:04:44,440 --> 00:04:47,000 Speaker 2: cupboard is bear. There's not the money there to be 85 00:04:47,080 --> 00:04:49,640 Speaker 2: able to do those things yet. 86 00:04:49,720 --> 00:04:50,920 Speaker 1: So I think it's. 87 00:04:50,800 --> 00:04:53,760 Speaker 3: One thing that they really I think they get brownie 88 00:04:53,800 --> 00:04:57,000 Speaker 3: points for telling us there is no short term solution here. 89 00:04:57,120 --> 00:05:00,120 Speaker 3: This is really bad and here's the steps we're taking 90 00:05:00,160 --> 00:05:01,440 Speaker 3: to take a while, and you've got to come on 91 00:05:01,440 --> 00:05:03,480 Speaker 3: this journey with us. If they were a bit more 92 00:05:03,480 --> 00:05:05,840 Speaker 3: honest about that, I think rather than trying to go, hey, 93 00:05:05,880 --> 00:05:06,640 Speaker 3: it's going to be great. 94 00:05:06,680 --> 00:05:08,640 Speaker 1: You know, we're going to have growth, growth, growth, they 95 00:05:08,680 --> 00:05:11,160 Speaker 1: have been pretty honest about and they've had to be 96 00:05:11,240 --> 00:05:14,039 Speaker 1: about the reality of it. But I think you're right, Josie. 97 00:05:14,160 --> 00:05:17,120 Speaker 1: If you know, labor will come along next year and 98 00:05:17,120 --> 00:05:20,480 Speaker 1: they sort of say what they'll do, but don't worry. 99 00:05:20,520 --> 00:05:22,680 Speaker 1: We will save the day. We will do that by taxing, 100 00:05:22,720 --> 00:05:25,200 Speaker 1: we will do that by borrowing more, we will spend more. 101 00:05:25,600 --> 00:05:27,200 Speaker 1: And will Kiwis believe any of it. 102 00:05:27,600 --> 00:05:30,039 Speaker 3: So there's one interesting comparison. 103 00:05:30,279 --> 00:05:34,359 Speaker 2: I hope, not hope, I believe that needs to be 104 00:05:34,440 --> 00:05:36,440 Speaker 2: at least mind up for an IQT. 105 00:05:36,800 --> 00:05:39,360 Speaker 3: At least they're presenting an alternative at the moment, they're 106 00:05:39,400 --> 00:05:41,760 Speaker 3: just going, you know, in a way that National did 107 00:05:41,760 --> 00:05:43,520 Speaker 3: when they were in government will be better than them. 108 00:05:43,839 --> 00:05:47,200 Speaker 3: But the real comparison is someone like Carne in Canada 109 00:05:47,279 --> 00:05:50,880 Speaker 3: who has put forward this fast track growth plan where 110 00:05:50,880 --> 00:05:53,360 Speaker 3: he's building a nuclear power station. He's a labor government 111 00:05:53,640 --> 00:05:57,600 Speaker 3: nuclear you know, left government nuclear power station. He's mining copper, 112 00:05:57,920 --> 00:06:02,000 Speaker 3: he's building LNG plants. So it can be done, all right. 113 00:06:02,040 --> 00:06:06,000 Speaker 1: It is the huddle with Josie Bigan and Tristus in Kalestine. 114 00:06:06,040 --> 00:06:10,000 Speaker 1: The Canadians, the Brits, the Australians have all recognized it 115 00:06:10,279 --> 00:06:14,440 Speaker 1: or decided they will recognize it overnight, and we're still deciding. 116 00:06:14,600 --> 00:06:16,960 Speaker 1: I don't think personally that our government is going to 117 00:06:17,000 --> 00:06:18,159 Speaker 1: do it, Josie, what do you reckon? 118 00:06:18,440 --> 00:06:20,279 Speaker 3: I think they will, and I think they'll do it 119 00:06:20,279 --> 00:06:22,919 Speaker 3: in the last minute, and they'll do something around the 120 00:06:23,000 --> 00:06:28,280 Speaker 3: Canadian model, which is conditional. So it's not about recognizing 121 00:06:29,920 --> 00:06:33,240 Speaker 3: a broken state now led by Hamashus still got the hostages. 122 00:06:33,680 --> 00:06:36,960 Speaker 3: It's about recognizing the principle of a state led by 123 00:06:37,000 --> 00:06:42,000 Speaker 3: Palestinian authority, demilitarized with an Arab peace force going in there, 124 00:06:42,800 --> 00:06:46,360 Speaker 3: but recognized. I know what you're saying, that that recognizing 125 00:06:46,640 --> 00:06:49,280 Speaker 3: the principle of the state seems like nothing, but it 126 00:06:49,320 --> 00:06:52,480 Speaker 3: is potentially the first step to some sort of peace agreement. 127 00:06:52,520 --> 00:06:54,560 Speaker 3: It has to be part of a bigger plan. The 128 00:06:54,600 --> 00:06:57,839 Speaker 3: big truth you've got is that Israelis and Palestinians are 129 00:06:57,880 --> 00:07:03,280 Speaker 3: going nowhere. They both have the legitimate ancient homeland claim 130 00:07:03,720 --> 00:07:08,280 Speaker 3: unfortunately to the same land, and so any any analysis 131 00:07:08,320 --> 00:07:12,080 Speaker 3: that doesn't any peace process, or any analysis or any 132 00:07:12,120 --> 00:07:15,000 Speaker 3: peace plan that doesn't acknowledge that is not going to succeed. 133 00:07:15,320 --> 00:07:18,640 Speaker 3: So I do think recognizing the principle that the state 134 00:07:18,640 --> 00:07:20,800 Speaker 3: of Palistin deserves to exist is something that is the 135 00:07:20,840 --> 00:07:22,960 Speaker 3: first step towards peace, and I think Winston, we'll do it. 136 00:07:22,960 --> 00:07:23,600 Speaker 3: At the last minute. 137 00:07:23,640 --> 00:07:25,960 Speaker 1: Did we get to on that? A speed bumps Trish? 138 00:07:26,200 --> 00:07:28,960 Speaker 1: So this is in Milldale, north of Auckland, A one 139 00:07:29,080 --> 00:07:33,840 Speaker 1: speed bump every eighty meters in this particular New Greenfield's development. 140 00:07:34,200 --> 00:07:36,480 Speaker 1: The poor guy in the paper said his wife. He 141 00:07:36,520 --> 00:07:39,200 Speaker 1: gets to have two days at home working from home 142 00:07:39,240 --> 00:07:40,840 Speaker 1: every week, but his poor wife has to go to 143 00:07:40,840 --> 00:07:43,480 Speaker 1: work every day. She's sick of it. They're all sick 144 00:07:43,520 --> 00:07:45,080 Speaker 1: of it. Don't move to Milldale. 145 00:07:45,320 --> 00:07:48,040 Speaker 2: Well, this actually reminded me of when I was at 146 00:07:48,120 --> 00:07:50,840 Speaker 2: boarding school and my mother arrived to pick me up 147 00:07:50,880 --> 00:07:54,680 Speaker 2: in the good brown commodore and the prom The Termonary 148 00:07:54,720 --> 00:07:57,480 Speaker 2: High School had put in some new speed bumps on 149 00:07:57,560 --> 00:08:00,520 Speaker 2: the driveway up to the hospital, and my mother had 150 00:08:00,520 --> 00:08:04,160 Speaker 2: a very unique idea for how she might test the 151 00:08:04,160 --> 00:08:07,560 Speaker 2: efficacy of the speed bumps using her car and the principle. 152 00:08:08,680 --> 00:08:12,080 Speaker 2: We heard the story today reminding me of it. I mean, 153 00:08:12,480 --> 00:08:17,200 Speaker 2: this is absolutely ridiculous. Trying to drive around you know, 154 00:08:17,280 --> 00:08:20,679 Speaker 2: Mildale sounds terrible, but just try driving around Auckland now. 155 00:08:21,560 --> 00:08:25,200 Speaker 2: And what I have never seen is any data or 156 00:08:25,360 --> 00:08:29,119 Speaker 2: facts showing the efficacy of all of the speed bumps 157 00:08:29,200 --> 00:08:29,800 Speaker 2: that how. 158 00:08:29,760 --> 00:08:32,760 Speaker 1: Many lives saved? Well, that's what I want to know. Well, 159 00:08:32,760 --> 00:08:35,200 Speaker 1: how many lives have we saved? How many school children 160 00:08:35,280 --> 00:08:39,720 Speaker 1: have not been knocked off their bikes. 161 00:08:37,040 --> 00:08:39,520 Speaker 2: Or have a role to play? 162 00:08:39,880 --> 00:08:42,920 Speaker 3: The problem is the plethora of them. They're just like breeding. 163 00:08:43,280 --> 00:08:45,480 Speaker 3: I've got a theory here, that's it must be so 164 00:08:45,520 --> 00:08:48,640 Speaker 3: easy to consent them, right, That's why we've got so many. 165 00:08:48,840 --> 00:08:51,080 Speaker 3: So this is actually a great template for if we 166 00:08:51,120 --> 00:08:55,040 Speaker 3: could just deal with the time around consenting, we would 167 00:08:55,040 --> 00:08:58,040 Speaker 3: get heaps built. Imagine we could apply the same rules. 168 00:08:58,200 --> 00:09:00,960 Speaker 3: But I also think that it's something to do with 169 00:09:01,400 --> 00:09:05,280 Speaker 3: the fact that in that consultation process, no one ever 170 00:09:05,320 --> 00:09:08,440 Speaker 3: has to defend the status quo. Right, so you've got 171 00:09:08,480 --> 00:09:11,520 Speaker 3: people who have to complain about things being built. I mean, 172 00:09:11,800 --> 00:09:14,800 Speaker 3: now we're complaining about speed bumps. But the problem with 173 00:09:14,880 --> 00:09:18,640 Speaker 3: the cool consenting process is that no one ever has 174 00:09:18,679 --> 00:09:21,920 Speaker 3: to measure not doing something or doing something anyway. That's 175 00:09:21,960 --> 00:09:22,600 Speaker 3: just my rant about. 176 00:09:23,000 --> 00:09:25,720 Speaker 2: Well here's the other thing. We seem to be able 177 00:09:25,760 --> 00:09:29,319 Speaker 2: to build speed bumps in mass very quickly, that's what 178 00:09:29,400 --> 00:09:32,360 Speaker 2: I mean. But we can't get major projects done in 179 00:09:32,480 --> 00:09:35,319 Speaker 2: any timeframe. I was reading a history of New Zealand 180 00:09:35,400 --> 00:09:38,200 Speaker 2: on the weekend. Do you know the main trunk railway? 181 00:09:38,240 --> 00:09:39,360 Speaker 3: It's a great weekend. 182 00:09:39,559 --> 00:09:42,319 Speaker 2: And this is the length of New Zealand nine years 183 00:09:42,360 --> 00:09:46,000 Speaker 2: to build Harbor Bridge four years. What has happened to 184 00:09:46,120 --> 00:09:50,040 Speaker 2: New Zealand that we now can't We can't even get 185 00:09:50,080 --> 00:09:53,560 Speaker 2: a business case to put a plan forward, let alone 186 00:09:53,600 --> 00:09:54,559 Speaker 2: getting something built. 187 00:09:54,559 --> 00:09:56,600 Speaker 3: But we can for speed bumps, right. But I think 188 00:09:56,600 --> 00:10:00,280 Speaker 3: it's the consultation class. We've invented a consultation class. The 189 00:10:00,320 --> 00:10:03,000 Speaker 3: same people get consulted all the time things. They are 190 00:10:03,000 --> 00:10:06,280 Speaker 3: a consultation class who say no to things. That's what we've. 191 00:10:06,120 --> 00:10:08,920 Speaker 1: Got even the good projects, like the projects you think 192 00:10:08,960 --> 00:10:13,240 Speaker 1: people would love. The greenies included like wind mills, windmills 193 00:10:13,360 --> 00:10:15,559 Speaker 1: South Tartanaki that go into the UN. 194 00:10:15,800 --> 00:10:18,360 Speaker 2: I mean, just so, why go to the UN? 195 00:10:18,800 --> 00:10:20,920 Speaker 3: The UN can't even solve Ukraine, They're not going to 196 00:10:20,920 --> 00:10:22,520 Speaker 3: solve windmills in Taranaki. 197 00:10:23,320 --> 00:10:26,480 Speaker 1: For more from Hither Duplessy Allen Drive, listen live to 198 00:10:26,559 --> 00:10:29,600 Speaker 1: news talks. It'd be from four pm weekdays, or follow 199 00:10:29,640 --> 00:10:31,360 Speaker 1: the podcast on iHeartRadio