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Speaker 1: We've got submission, We've got a submissions portal and on

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Speaker 1: Aware's campaign being launched to those part of Phase two

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Speaker 1: of our COVID inquiry. So this part looks into the

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Speaker 1: vaccines of course, lockdown's testing, tracing rats, all that sort

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Speaker 1: of stuff. Anyway, the chair of this particular part of

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Speaker 1: the COVID inquiry is Grant Illingworth k C, who's will us.

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Speaker 2: Very good morning, Yes, good morning, Mike.

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Speaker 1: And so you open a portal and you say, give

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Speaker 1: me your feelings. Are you braced for the fury?

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Speaker 2: Well, yes, we're braced for the fury. We are expecting

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Speaker 2: a lot of people to respond, but we really want

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Speaker 2: that to happen. This is a really important issue. We

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Speaker 2: want to get things right for the future, and we've

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Speaker 2: been given some sharp questions to answer, so we need help.

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Speaker 1: Does opinion carry weight? So just because I didn't like

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Speaker 1: the mandate, does that count for anything or not?

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Speaker 2: It can if you give reasons as to why you

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Speaker 2: didn't like it, then those reasons will be important to

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Speaker 2: us to consider and they can constitute a line of

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Speaker 2: inquiry that we might need to follow in.

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Speaker 1: So is this a democratic exercise in the sense that

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Speaker 1: if I say I don't like the mandate because they

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Speaker 1: made me get jabbed, and if I didn't get jabbed,

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Speaker 1: I lost my job. If enough people say that, does

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Speaker 1: that sway your eventual report or do you take something

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Speaker 1: from the medical fraternity? You go, Yep. A lot of

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Speaker 1: people didn't like it, but that's why we did what

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Speaker 1: we did the latter.

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Speaker 2: It's not a matter of being swayed by public opinion.

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Speaker 2: And the answer is we are required to approach this

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Speaker 2: whole task of answering the questions that we've been given.

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Speaker 2: We're required to do it impartially, independently and using a

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Speaker 2: fair process. So we've got to weigh up the evidence.

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Speaker 2: It's going to be evidence based and that's exactly what

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Speaker 2: we plan to do.

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Speaker 1: Are you constrained in any way as far as you're

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Speaker 1: concerned in terms of terms of reference?

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Speaker 2: Yes, the terms of reference are very precise. So we're

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Speaker 2: reviewing key decisions that were made by government from the

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Speaker 2: period of February twenty twenty one to October twenty twenty two,

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Speaker 2: and those decisions are further narrowed by topics. So the

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Speaker 2: topics are lockdowns, vaccines, and procurement issues, and they are

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Speaker 2: specifically spout out for our terms of reference.

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Speaker 1: Ultimately, will you do you think be prescriptive in what

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Speaker 1: you say in the report? In other words, a lot

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Speaker 1: of people said that in lockdowns, we think this should happen.

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Speaker 2: Going forward, we will try to identify lessons for the future.

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Speaker 2: It's not a matter of saying you must do this, obviously.

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Speaker 2: The whole purpose of this inquiry is to facilitate good

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Speaker 2: decision making. And you can't make a decision in circumstances

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Speaker 2: of uncertainty and urgency and complexity without putting your brain

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Speaker 2: into gear. It's the it's what you take into account

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Speaker 2: when you're making those decisions. What you should balance, what

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Speaker 2: you should trade off one from one thing to another.

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Speaker 2: Those are the issues that we'll be looking.

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Speaker 1: At when they rang you, did you go into this

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Speaker 1: eyes wide open with the belief that potentially it could

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Speaker 1: just be another door stop once you've written your report,

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Speaker 1: or you hand on heart think you can make a difference.

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Speaker 2: I think we can make a difference. These issues are

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Speaker 2: not simple and straightforward, and the more you look into

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Speaker 2: the questions that we've been asked to consider, the more

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Speaker 2: complexity you see. And there needs to be a big

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Speaker 2: change in the way we deal with emergencies, particularly public

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Speaker 2: health emergencies, to be better prepared than we were last

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Speaker 2: time round. It's pretty obvious, I think to everyone that

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Speaker 2: we weren't well prepared. We didn't have all our ducks

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Speaker 2: in a row, and we need to do that next time,

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Speaker 2: all right.

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Speaker 1: Grant go well and Grant Hilling with KC out of

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Speaker 1: the Curbon inquiries. When I was talking about terms of reference,

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Speaker 1: the things they're not looking at, and this is how

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Speaker 1: court procedures and parliament processes were adapted during the pandemic,

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Speaker 1: the conduct of the general election during the pandemic, I

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Speaker 1: probably agree with that, But then this decisions made by

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Speaker 1: the Reserve Bank's Independent Monetary Policy Committee, I would argue

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Speaker 1: that was a critical and still effective piece of not

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Speaker 1: effective in a positive way, but effective piece of policy

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Speaker 1: that still to this day affects our lives in a

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Speaker 1: fairy dramatic way. So why they're not looking at that?

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Speaker 1: I got no idea For more from the Mic Asking Breakfast,

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