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Speaker 1: You're listening to a podcast from news Talks It b

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Speaker 1: follow this and our wide range of podcasts now on iHeartRadio.

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Speaker 1: It's time from all the Attitude, all the opinion, all

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Speaker 1: the information, all the debate of the Now the Layton

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Speaker 1: Smith podcast powered by news talks It.

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Speaker 2: Be Welcome to podcast two hundred and seventy nine for

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Speaker 2: April the ninth, twenty twenty five. Somewhere in the mailroom

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Speaker 2: letters was a comment that suggested that I must be

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Speaker 2: in seventh Heaven at the moment, enjoying myself immensely with

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Speaker 2: all the events that are unfolding everywhere on the planet.

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Speaker 2: Who knows where else. The letters also is right, but

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Speaker 2: it comes with restrictions. To do just one program a

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Speaker 2: week requires discipline and applied restriction. And it's the latter

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Speaker 2: that bothers me. The email addresses on my computer remind

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Speaker 2: me of a running tap that someone forgot to turn off.

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Speaker 2: None of this is meant to be a complaint, of course,

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Speaker 2: just some more useless information on background. But in podcast

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Speaker 2: sixty one twenty twenty, I interviewed historian Professor Jeffrey Parker

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Speaker 2: on his book Global Crisis, War, Climate Change, and Catastrophe

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Speaker 2: in the seventeenth century. It is a massive book, eight

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Speaker 2: hundred pages plus. Parker and I got on very well

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Speaker 2: on all but a couple of things, one being DJ Trump.

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Speaker 2: The suggestion was that we would interview again, but at

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Speaker 2: this point we haven't. But regarding global crisis, wore climate

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Speaker 2: change in catastrophe in the seventeenth century from the cover

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Speaker 2: flap revolutions, droughts, famines, invasions, wars, regicides. The calamities of

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Speaker 2: the mid seventeenth century were not only unprecedented, they were

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Speaker 2: agonizingly widespread. A global crisis extended from England to Japan,

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Speaker 2: and from the Russian Empire to the Sub Saharan Africa.

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Speaker 2: North and South America too suffered. Any of that's sounding

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Speaker 2: familiar at the moment. So the frustration that I made

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Speaker 2: mention of has to do with what to fit in,

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Speaker 2: because there is far more than one can deal with

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Speaker 2: in a program or even in a week of programs.

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Speaker 2: To be honest, Trump is tearing up the old world

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Speaker 2: order as promise. There's a headline, is the West about

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Speaker 2: to implode? There's another tariffs reshoring, something deeper, something darker,

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Speaker 2: And I could go on and on. Now at the

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Speaker 2: end of the podcast. There is an article that's fairly lengthy.

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Speaker 2: I wanted to include it. I had a choice of

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Speaker 2: numerous articles along the same lines, but this one is

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Speaker 2: a standout and it has to do with tariffs. There

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Speaker 2: is another tariff standout that has come to my attention,

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Speaker 2: and I can't fit it in this week, but I'm

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Speaker 2: going to save it for next week. It is from

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Speaker 2: George Friedman. Here's a little example. This is how it begins.

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Speaker 2: There are two analytic principles worth repeating before delving into

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Speaker 2: the raft of tariffs the Trump administration issued last week.

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Speaker 2: The first is that we have entered into an unanchored

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Speaker 2: world order, a state in which one geopolitical era transitions

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Speaker 2: to the next. All things that were certain in the

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Speaker 2: past have become uncertain. The Storm before the Calm that

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Speaker 2: I applied to us politics, and that was in his book,

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Speaker 2: The Storm Before the Calm, which is proving more and

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Speaker 2: more fruitful and useful as the days go on. There's

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Speaker 2: one term that I've noticed is missing at the moment,

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Speaker 2: and there was quite a use of it just a

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Speaker 2: couple of weeks back and beyond going backwards, common sense,

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Speaker 2: there is not a lot of common sense that's being shown,

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Speaker 2: people are exaggerating, people are fighting each other in words,

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Speaker 2: that is, and there are many many opinions now bringing

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Speaker 2: this back home for the purposes of the podcast. Lawfair,

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Speaker 2: which I first saw applied a few years ago to

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Speaker 2: matters in America. Goodness knows how long it's been around,

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Speaker 2: but it's now one that's in common use, and lawfair

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Speaker 2: is being leveled and leveraged in various countries, including our own,

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Speaker 2: mostly in America at this point of time for obvious reasons,

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Speaker 2: but in Australia, different Australian states, different Australian courts, and

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Speaker 2: different Australian universities. Lawfair is like an octopus grasping the

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Speaker 2: world in its tentacles. And on that matter, I could

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Speaker 2: not think of a better individual to discuss it with,

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Speaker 2: and all that goes beyond that, as Professor James Allen.

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Speaker 2: I think most everybody is familiar with who James Allen is,

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Speaker 2: or Jim if you like, as we call him. He

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Speaker 2: spent eleven years as a professor at Ottaga University. He

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Speaker 2: has been the last quite a few years now at

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Speaker 2: the University of Queensland, and Queensland is a place that

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Speaker 2: has joined in the lawfare. And I suppose you might

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Speaker 2: say the core of the subject for discussion is judicial activism.

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Speaker 2: Lawfair and judicial activism. They go hand in hand, and

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Speaker 2: it's getting no, it's not getting out of order. It

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Speaker 2: is out of order, and no one pulls it together

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Speaker 2: better than Jim Allen. But we talk about a very

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Speaker 2: wide range of matters. And we'll talk with Jim after

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Speaker 2: a short break. Now. For those of you who've been

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Speaker 2: listening for a few years, and I speak specifically about

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Speaker 2: the radio program, you'd be aware of the name of

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Speaker 2: Lance Green. Lance Green and I have been made for

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Speaker 2: a long time. We established that relationship through doing some

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Speaker 2: joint ventures in tourism, like we would take tours away.

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Speaker 2: We started with New Orleans, we ended up in Europe,

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Speaker 2: and particularly Lance has been quiet for the last few

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Speaker 2: years COVID, etc. And he's now emerged with something different

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Speaker 2: and I think enticing one word in his mind he

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Speaker 2: writes best described sicily extreme in the most beautiful way.

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Speaker 2: Why would he say this? Sicily is a tapestry woven

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Speaker 2: from threads of various cultures that have shaped the island

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Speaker 2: over centuries, resulting in a unique blend of flavors and traditions.

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Speaker 2: I've only been to Sicily once and I love it.

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Speaker 2: I know other people who've been time and time again.

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Speaker 2: Lance has organized something for the second half of June

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Speaker 2: and it's very special and it's only for a very

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Speaker 2: small number of people. The journey focuses on two destinations,

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Speaker 2: castell Mare de Gulfo and Palermo. It's designed to immerse

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Speaker 2: us in the environment where we're staying, no rushing from

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Speaker 2: place to place. Now, this journey is for no more

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Speaker 2: than eight guests. Older were small and if you would

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Speaker 2: like further information, then need to contact Lance by email

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Speaker 2: at Lance at Lance Green dot endz, Lance at Lance

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Speaker 2: Green dot endz and he will fill you in with

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Speaker 2: all the detail. But you better be quick, I think,

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Speaker 2: because this is only for a few people. The Age

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Speaker 2: of Foolishness A Doubter's Guide to Constitutionalism in a Modern

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Speaker 2: Democracy by J Allen, Published in twenty twenty two, The

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Speaker 2: Age of Foolishness is a doubter's guide to current loyally

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Speaker 2: thinking about all things related to constitutionalism in a democracy.

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Speaker 2: This book offers a thoroughgoing skeptical critique of the views

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Speaker 2: that dominate our legal caste, including in law schools and

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Speaker 2: among judges, and tastes too much weight on judges to

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Speaker 2: resolve important social policy disputes and too little on democratic politics.

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Speaker 2: The author argues that politics matters in a way that's

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Speaker 2: our legal orthodoxy often down plays, and that author, of course,

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Speaker 2: is one James Allen, who we are all familiar with.

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Speaker 2: He needs no more introduction than that. But I have

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Speaker 2: never I have never bought the book or got it.

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Speaker 2: I didn't know it existed until very recently. Welcome back

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Speaker 2: to the podcast. Is it a book I should read?

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Speaker 3: Well, I'd say things have only gotten worse since I

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Speaker 3: wrote it in twenty twenty two.

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Speaker 2: Well, that should have been my real question.

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Speaker 3: Actually, I know, you just have to look at what's

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Speaker 3: happened in the US. They tried to knock out the

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Speaker 3: leading opposition figure through well I think are incredibly weak cases.

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Speaker 3: And then what's happening in Romania and knocking out the

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Speaker 3: mean opposition person in France. I mean it's not good.

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Speaker 3: Of course, you know, no one makes money from writing

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Speaker 3: academic books, so I'm not going to get rich out

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Speaker 3: of the book. But sure, go ahead and buy it.

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Speaker 3: My mum will be happy.

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Speaker 2: I will buy it, as ask her if she would

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Speaker 2: sign it for me, please, I could call this almost

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Speaker 2: if I was giving her the title, this discussion assault

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Speaker 2: on almost everything legal, because it seems to be happening

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Speaker 2: everywhere from all sorts of levels and angles. How right

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Speaker 2: am I?

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Speaker 3: Yes, I think there's a lot to that. I mean,

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Speaker 3: there's just a I mean, I'm sort of rite a center.

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Speaker 3: Person working in the university is there are very very

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Speaker 3: few of us, so we see what's happening early and

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Speaker 3: the sort of sustained. I think it's politics, but let's

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Speaker 3: call it cultural worldview that is being imposed on people.

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Speaker 3: So to some extent, not about educating anymore as much

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Speaker 3: as indoctrinating. I mean, when I went to university in

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Speaker 3: Canada in the eighties, of course, the majority of professor

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Speaker 3: back then we're left leaning way a smaller percentage and

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Speaker 3: now by a lot, but they were. But they had

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Speaker 3: that old fashioned view that anyone should be able to

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Speaker 3: hear both sides of the argument, and you could write

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Speaker 3: a good argument up and get a good mark. And

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Speaker 3: in some ways that has gone. You know, the universities

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Speaker 3: will tell you it hasn't gone. But you just ask

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Speaker 3: any student who's actually in the universities right now. There's

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Speaker 3: an incredible level of self censorship. If you're a junior

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Speaker 3: academic and you're on the right right side of the

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Speaker 3: political spectrum, many of them have to be quiet if

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Speaker 3: they want to get promoted. It's not a very friendly place.

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Speaker 3: You can give lots of examples. So we see these

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Speaker 3: things coming before the rest of society. I'm actually quite

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Speaker 3: buoyed by the fact that President Trump went back in November.

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Speaker 3: He's actually doing things. He's ending all the DEI, which

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Speaker 3: is very maligned. It's just a form of affirmative action.

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Speaker 3: And he's calling out the lunacy of some of the

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Speaker 3: transgender movement, letting men play in women's sports, so and

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Speaker 3: so he's getting rid of that. And you know, putting

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Speaker 3: men who claim to be women in women's prisons even

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Speaker 3: when they're rapists. I mean, some of these things just

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Speaker 3: make you laugh at loud. You you can't satirize them.

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Speaker 3: So I feel good about that. And you know, I

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Speaker 3: know the preponderance of people, even on the right side

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Speaker 3: of politics outside the US, just can't stand the man.

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Speaker 3: But I think he's doing an awful lot of good things. Well.

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Speaker 2: At the moment, things are in a bit of turmoil.

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Speaker 2: So I seeing you've raised it, and we might well

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Speaker 2: revisit it. But as far as tariffs are concerned, are

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Speaker 2: you even just a little nervous?

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Speaker 3: Well, I used to teach wto I understand comparative advantage

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Speaker 3: and free trade does up well. But the simple fact

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Speaker 3: is that something like ten percent of the world, these

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Speaker 3: Americans own somewhere between ninety and ninety three percent of

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Speaker 3: stock market wealth. The next wealthy is forty percent. So

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Speaker 3: from ten to fifty they own the remaining nine ten percent,

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Speaker 3: and fifty percent of Americans own nothing on the stock market.

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Speaker 3: They have debts, they have credit card. Since Trump came

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Speaker 3: in the first time in twenty sixteen, so beginning of

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Speaker 3: twenty seventeen until yesterday, So including the stock market falls

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Speaker 3: we've seen, the stock market has gone up one hundred percent.

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Speaker 3: If you look at American productivity over the last fifty years,

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Speaker 3: it's gone it's gone up about it's about doubled in

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Speaker 3: the last fifty years. Now in Australia and New Zealand,

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Speaker 3: we'd chew off our right arms to get that kind

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Speaker 3: of productivity growth.

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Speaker 2: We'd we'd like, we'd like, we'd like it. Any productivity

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Speaker 2: growthy exactly.

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Speaker 3: So they've had about in over the last half century,

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Speaker 3: they've had about a doubling of productivity, but wages have

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Speaker 3: only gone up. And this is off the top of

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Speaker 3: my head of about thirty five percent. So the people

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Speaker 3: who are screaming blue murder, and I'm a conservative, but

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Speaker 3: come on, the people who are screaming blue murder have

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Speaker 3: big assets. They have big investments in the stock market.

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Speaker 3: They're used to seeing it doubled every seven or eight years.

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Speaker 3: And you cannot deny that the globalization has led to

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Speaker 3: working class people losing factories, losing highly paid jobs, not

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Speaker 3: seeing wages go up. And those are the people who

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Speaker 3: voted for Trump, and why he should care about the

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Speaker 3: sort of soup comparatively rich top ten percent. Now, obviously

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Speaker 3: everyone is affected by the stock market, but wealthy people

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Speaker 3: are affected by it a lot more. And it's no

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Speaker 3: easy task to try to get try to restructure the

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Speaker 3: world economy, which right now outsources so many things, so

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Speaker 3: many manufacturing jobs to China, and then we borrow money,

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Speaker 3: as Trump's Treasury secretary said, who's a smart guy, And

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Speaker 3: then we're borrowing money from these Chinese and so we

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Speaker 3: can buy stuff to make Yes, yes, you know, goods

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Speaker 3: are cheaper on this, but there's lots of things in

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Speaker 3: life that are more important than money. I mean, I've

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Speaker 3: got a piece of the Spectator coming out this week.

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Speaker 3: There's a lot of things I'd take a mask. I

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Speaker 3: would take a pretty hefty pay cut. If I could

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Speaker 3: have a few more conservative colleagues in my law school,

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Speaker 3: or if we could get rid of DEI completely from

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Speaker 3: the universities. I could give you five or six things

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Speaker 3: that where I would I would take a big pay

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Speaker 3: cut because money is not everything. Sure, if you're going

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Speaker 3: to be impoverished, it matters, but if it's a five

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Speaker 3: or ten percent cut to get you know, higher wages

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Speaker 3: for people who have jobs that give them a bit

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Speaker 3: of you know, self respect, well that's what Trump's trying

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Speaker 3: to do. You might not agree with that. You might

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Speaker 3: think that comparative advantage is everything and all that matters

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Speaker 3: is getting you know, slightly cheaper goods. But the problem

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Speaker 3: is on that theory, as I always used to teach it,

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Speaker 3: what happens then is you take that wealth and then

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Speaker 3: you redistribute it to the losers because people lose and

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Speaker 3: for each trade and what pretty blatantly obviously is we're

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Speaker 3: not redistributing the wealth, and you don't want to do

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Speaker 3: it through government programs, and you don't want to do

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Speaker 3: it through a big bureaucracy. You'd like people to have

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Speaker 3: jobs where they just made enough money that they had

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Speaker 3: half decent. And so you know, if I were Trump,

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Speaker 3: I would be doing it in a different tone. I'd

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Speaker 3: be saying, you know, I don't want to do this,

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Speaker 3: but reciprocity because leave aside New Zealand and Australia, because

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Speaker 3: we are sort of clean hands at this and Trump's

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Speaker 3: terrorists really don't make any sense. But the EU runs

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Speaker 3: much bigger trade blocks on the US, and the US

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Speaker 3: runs on them higher terraffs. They make it impossible to

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Speaker 3: import agricultural goods so they can have you know, French

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Speaker 3: farms the size of your toilet, and so you know,

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Speaker 3: no one, no one really can say that the EU

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Speaker 3: has smaller terraffs on the US than the US has

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Speaker 3: on them. And this sort of talk by the EU

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Speaker 3: commissioned that they'd be happy with zero terraffs on manufactured goods.

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Speaker 3: The whole point is they specifically won't do that on

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Speaker 3: agricultural goods and New Zealand was one of the biggest losers.

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Speaker 3: I mean, we all know that the EU are thugs

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Speaker 3: when it comes to agricultural trade. And so I have

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Speaker 3: some sympathy with Trump. He's not elected to help the

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Speaker 3: rest of the world. I don't know. Australia got a

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Speaker 3: ten percent terariff. I don't know what you guys got.

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Speaker 3: Probably the same. Yeah, So that's at the bottom of anything.

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Speaker 2: And do you know what you want to know what

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Speaker 2: our biggest biggest export is at the moment, red late

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Speaker 2: red meat.

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Speaker 3: Yeah. Yeah. I mean here's the problem. If you take tariffs,

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Speaker 3: American teriffs, and how they affect our economies, and you

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Speaker 3: compare that to how this bizarre religious like pursuit of

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Speaker 3: net zero affects the economy, the net zero is way

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Speaker 3: more crippling. If we got rid of net zero tomorrow,

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Speaker 3: both countries, we would be wealthier. Who cares about the tariffs?

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Speaker 3: I mean, our electricity costs in Australia are about three

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Speaker 3: or four times what they are in some US states,

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Speaker 3: and we have the world's highest minimum wage, and we

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Speaker 3: have a labor relations systems. You don't get rid of it.

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Speaker 3: In the early eighties, late seventies, it's it's completely bizarre.

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Speaker 3: You get these two bit third party pseudo judge types

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Speaker 3: dictating the terms of employment contracts, and so why would

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Speaker 3: anyone invest in Australia. Then you've got red tape, you've

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Speaker 3: got green tape, you've got now black tape, which is

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Speaker 3: the word for you know, Indigenous Aboriginal leaders groups, basically

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Speaker 3: rent seeking and the blocking projects unless you pay a

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Speaker 3: sort of fee. So why would anyone invest in these countries.

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Speaker 3: I don't have any worries about the US economy. I mean,

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Speaker 3: it's true that terrists are going to hurt for a while,

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Speaker 3: but you know, the stock market today is back to

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Speaker 3: where it was what about a year ago, and it

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Speaker 3: doubled in the last eight years, so there's probably a

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Speaker 3: little overvalue. I mean, I don't think it's Trump's job

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Speaker 3: to look out for the rest of the For all,

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Speaker 3: it's arge what we're doing a lousy I mean, as

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Speaker 3: Australia's run seven quarters of GDP per capital the coin,

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Speaker 3: and that's not because of mister Trump. It's because of

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Speaker 3: both parties in Australia and to a large EXTENTUS due

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Speaker 3: to the idiotic response to COVID.

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Speaker 2: You got it in one, You and I are on

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Speaker 2: exactly the same We're rowing the same boat with regard

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Speaker 2: to the fact that it's it's not Trump's duty to

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Speaker 2: look after the rest of the world, or America's for

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Speaker 2: that matter, and it's got this way, I think through

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Speaker 2: vice and corruption. There's been so much, there's been so

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Speaker 2: much going down behind the scenes. There have been so

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Speaker 2: many people who have including including senior politicians in America,

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Speaker 2: who've been making fortunes out of the inside information, et cetera,

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Speaker 2: that it's time that something was done about them and

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Speaker 2: about the state that the Americans find themselves in overall,

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Speaker 2: at the abuse end of much of the rest of

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Speaker 2: the world.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean it made at the end of World

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Speaker 3: War Two, it made sense for the Americans to be

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Speaker 3: a market for all of Europe and get them back

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Speaker 3: on their feet. But today, let's be honest, most of

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Speaker 3: Europe spends almost nothing on defense, and they know that

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Speaker 3: the Americans are going to defend them, and so that's

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Speaker 3: a massive implicit tax on some poor schmuck in Arkansas.

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Speaker 3: And they also run higher sort of restraints on trade

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Speaker 3: than the Americans do. Germany just makes stuff, and they

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Speaker 3: make it really well, and they export it out, but

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Speaker 3: there's all sorts of blocks again on agriculture, especially that

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Speaker 3: it's pretty hard to defend. So the EU I don't

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Speaker 3: think has any hope in the trade war against If

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Speaker 3: they get into a trade war against the Americans, the

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Speaker 3: party that runs a surplus almost always loses. And since

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Speaker 3: they have a pretty hefty surplus with the US on trade,

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Speaker 3: and again that's the wrong way of looking at it

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Speaker 3: unless there's a trade war. But you can't win if

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Speaker 3: you're the party running a big surplus. I mean, I

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Speaker 3: think Trump could cripple the Europeans and overnight just by

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Speaker 3: saying there'll be a four tariff on French wine and

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Speaker 3: German cars. I don't know what that would be the

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Speaker 3: end for Germany and really bad for France. So I

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Speaker 3: don't know why they're doing that.

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Speaker 2: I think only a non drinker could pass pass a

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Speaker 2: tariff like that on French wine.

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Speaker 3: I have started to like the big California and Chardonnays,

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Speaker 3: like the big buttery, oaky ones, and you guys make

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Speaker 3: this phenomenal pino noirs. I could live without French wine.

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Speaker 2: Well, I promised you a bottle of my pino for ages,

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Speaker 2: but I've still got it. Look you you mentioned so

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Speaker 2: many things in that little tirade that I've got multiple choices.

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Speaker 2: Let me start with Now, let me just say, first

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Speaker 2: of all, what triggered the call for you to do

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Speaker 2: the podcast whilst the tea hung and marry nonsense. It's

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Speaker 2: going on in this country at the moment, and the

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Speaker 2: and the judiciary, but the judiciary has has the cause

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Speaker 2: in common with the Australian judiciary, the American judiciary, the

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Speaker 2: French judiciary. So it's a it's almost a universal universal subject.

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Speaker 2: But let's start with Australia because it's caught my attention

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Speaker 2: over the last couple of days. Macquarie Law School, for instance,

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Speaker 2: has been in the news for for for a little bit,

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Speaker 2: imposing imposing ideology in its in its classes. Then over

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Speaker 2: this weekend you've got the story of the radical lefts

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Speaker 2: March through the Institutions written by Janet Albertson, and that's

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Speaker 2: one of a couple of pieces that she's written in

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Speaker 2: The Australian that are simp that that are almost must reading.

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Speaker 2: And then we get to Dr Danny Linda, to whom

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Speaker 2: you are very close.

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Speaker 3: Well, she's in my lascal, but she's new So here's the.

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Speaker 2: Thing I meant, I meant, I'm meant physically close.

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Speaker 3: Oh yeah, physically close. Yes yeah, yea. And to some extent,

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Speaker 3: I know that some of her comments were taken out

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Speaker 3: of context, but leave her aside, let me comment on

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Speaker 3: the other ones. So there has been this move in

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Speaker 3: the last twenty years, and it's often by a hard

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Speaker 3: left sort of people who had sort of Marxist type

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Speaker 3: views about the world. You know, Marxism effectively you reduce

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Speaker 3: everything into the view that there's a struggle for resources,

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Speaker 3: and then you get sort of romantic about the working

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Speaker 3: class and the proletariat. I used to have to teach

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Speaker 3: that stuff in Hong Kong. Well, these days, old fashioned

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Speaker 3: Marxists are the best sort of lefties because they're actually

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Speaker 3: open to other people having different views. So these days

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Speaker 3: it all seems to creep out in these sort of

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Speaker 3: weird forms. In Australia, they're talking about indigenizing the curriculum

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Speaker 3: and it's roughly similar in the what does that even mean?

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Speaker 3: I mean, why would you take a curriculum if you're

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Speaker 3: saying law school, do we want to have a dispute

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Speaker 3: resolution process? That mimics what happened in a hunter gatherer society,

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Speaker 3: I don't. And when you try to ask for details,

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Speaker 3: like what does it mean to indigenize the culture? What

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Speaker 3: does it mean to throw around these these words in

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Speaker 3: the Maori or some sort of Aboriginal language, it always

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Speaker 3: ends up sort of being an attempt to say, well,

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Speaker 3: we have to respect culture X. And the answer to

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Speaker 3: that is, well, some things we might respect, in some

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Speaker 3: things we don't. I mean, I'm not going to respect

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Speaker 3: the dispute resolution process that involves the kind of spir

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Speaker 3: in somebody. I mean, what are we at? Where are

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Speaker 3: the specifics? And they can't give you a specific So

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Speaker 3: then when the courts do it, it seems to me

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Speaker 3: it's always this sort of vehicle for imposing political outcomes.

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Speaker 3: They're always left wing. I mean, do you have a

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Speaker 3: pretty imperial judiciary in New Zealand right now? And they

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Speaker 3: never impose things that conservative side of politics likes. They

404
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Speaker 3: used that Peter Ellis case disgracefully because there was a disgrace.

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Speaker 3: How we talked about this before, but what happened to

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Speaker 3: Peter Ellis was one of the great disgraces. And after

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Speaker 3: he was dead, the judges who caused the problem, they

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Speaker 3: were the problem with basically convicting an innocent person. And

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Speaker 3: finally they gave him a posthumous pardon, big deal with

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Speaker 3: what good does that do him? What good does that

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Speaker 3: do his mother? They both died with no pardon and

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Speaker 3: no recognition. They should have never been convicted. But they

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Speaker 3: used that vehicle to just bring in this mallory idea

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Speaker 3: that wasn't needed, to give him the pardon and to

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Speaker 3: decide for him. And I mean, it's not even clear.

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Speaker 3: It's so much uncertainty and nobody knows where the law

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Speaker 3: is coming from and effectively undermines the long established, old

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Speaker 3: fashioned notion of the rule of law. And it basically

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Speaker 3: you're left with people saying, well, you have to trust

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Speaker 3: the judges. I don't trust the judges. I don't trust

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Speaker 3: them at all. I mean and so, and they've done

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Speaker 3: some things that are just it just looks like they're

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Speaker 3: not bound by any past ideas of constraint. And so

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Speaker 3: when people talk about in digitizing the culture or digitalizing

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Speaker 3: the curriculum, you have to ask what do you ask?

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Speaker 3: What are you asking us to do? And it does

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Speaker 3: seem a highly political enterprise. In the universities, they say

428
00:25:38,173 --> 00:25:40,293
Speaker 3: you can be open minded, and they say, you don't

429
00:25:40,293 --> 00:25:41,893
Speaker 3: have to agree, And this is a sort of response

430
00:25:41,893 --> 00:25:44,333
Speaker 3: you're getting in New Zealand. You don't have to agree.

431
00:25:44,373 --> 00:25:46,293
Speaker 3: You just have to be aware of these things, and

432
00:25:46,533 --> 00:25:48,773
Speaker 3: you have to show a little bit of respect. You know,

433
00:25:48,813 --> 00:25:51,773
Speaker 3: why should people show There's some elements of every culture

434
00:25:51,813 --> 00:25:53,653
Speaker 3: you're going to like, and there's some elements you're not

435
00:25:53,693 --> 00:25:56,373
Speaker 3: going to like, and everyone's going to be different. It

436
00:25:56,413 --> 00:25:59,093
Speaker 3: shouldn't be the job of a law society or a

437
00:25:59,253 --> 00:26:03,013
Speaker 3: university or a government to tell people what they need

438
00:26:03,053 --> 00:26:06,813
Speaker 3: to respect or not respect. It sort of undermines liberal

439
00:26:06,853 --> 00:26:09,613
Speaker 3: democracy and it's very hard to argue against it in

440
00:26:09,653 --> 00:26:11,613
Speaker 3: the universe. I can do it because I've got a chair,

441
00:26:11,693 --> 00:26:14,453
Speaker 3: and you know, I've worked long enough that I've got

442
00:26:14,573 --> 00:26:16,813
Speaker 3: fu money. I was sort of like that anyway. I've

443
00:26:16,813 --> 00:26:20,493
Speaker 3: just got that temperament. But if you have kids, or

444
00:26:20,493 --> 00:26:24,573
Speaker 3: a house or a mortgage, these universities are not friendly

445
00:26:24,613 --> 00:26:26,773
Speaker 3: places to those kind of people who want to speak out.

446
00:26:27,333 --> 00:26:30,133
Speaker 3: They might not fire you, but they'll definitely make promotions

447
00:26:30,133 --> 00:26:33,853
Speaker 3: harder and they'll make it your life difficult. And so

448
00:26:33,933 --> 00:26:36,733
Speaker 3: people tend to self censor. Students learn to self censor

449
00:26:37,693 --> 00:26:40,733
Speaker 3: and sorry and that's when you finished by saying, and

450
00:26:40,773 --> 00:26:43,093
Speaker 3: it's not as though there's any symmetry here. It's an

451
00:26:43,093 --> 00:26:46,333
Speaker 3: asymmetrical game because no one says we have to respect

452
00:26:46,413 --> 00:26:49,893
Speaker 3: Western culture. You know, the culture that gave us antibiotics

453
00:26:49,933 --> 00:26:53,573
Speaker 3: and jet airplanes and the rule of law and you know,

454
00:26:53,693 --> 00:26:58,813
Speaker 3: cross examination and trials and Shakespeare and you know Churchill.

455
00:26:59,373 --> 00:27:03,213
Speaker 3: If anything, they don't respect that. So it's this weird

456
00:27:03,293 --> 00:27:07,573
Speaker 3: situation where you sort of hate the culture that's delivered

457
00:27:07,613 --> 00:27:10,813
Speaker 3: you the best places to live on Earth. And then

458
00:27:10,893 --> 00:27:14,533
Speaker 3: you wonder why. Douglas Murray says, the polls are showing

459
00:27:14,573 --> 00:27:16,773
Speaker 3: eighteen percent of young people would be prepared to defend

460
00:27:16,773 --> 00:27:19,453
Speaker 3: their own country. That's in the US, that's in Britain.

461
00:27:19,493 --> 00:27:22,733
Speaker 3: I'm sure it's the same in New Zealand and Australia. Well,

462
00:27:22,733 --> 00:27:24,853
Speaker 3: why would they defend their own country when you've spent

463
00:27:25,213 --> 00:27:28,413
Speaker 3: eleven years telling them at school that their culture is terrible,

464
00:27:28,413 --> 00:27:31,613
Speaker 3: which it's not. It's self evidently one of the best

465
00:27:31,933 --> 00:27:34,533
Speaker 3: cultures ever to have arisen, not to say it's perfect.

466
00:27:35,053 --> 00:27:37,333
Speaker 3: And so you know, the whole thing is asymmetrical. It's

467
00:27:39,213 --> 00:27:41,293
Speaker 3: I think of this book that a guy are great,

468
00:27:41,373 --> 00:27:44,013
Speaker 3: he's a lefty but smart, and he likes to beate.

469
00:27:44,053 --> 00:27:47,173
Speaker 3: His name is Stephen Pinker. So twenty odd years ago

470
00:27:47,173 --> 00:27:50,893
Speaker 3: he wrote a book called The Blank Slate, The Noble Savage,

471
00:27:51,373 --> 00:27:54,293
Speaker 3: and the Ghost and the Machine, just taking on three

472
00:27:54,333 --> 00:27:56,973
Speaker 3: ideas that are wrong. The Blank Slate is the idea

473
00:27:57,013 --> 00:28:00,293
Speaker 3: that you're born as sort of an open book. You

474
00:28:00,333 --> 00:28:03,213
Speaker 3: can just be whatever you want to be, and evolution

475
00:28:03,373 --> 00:28:06,173
Speaker 3: has it hardwired things into you and it's just wrong.

476
00:28:06,333 --> 00:28:09,173
Speaker 3: And that's the sort of basis we get people saying like, oh,

477
00:28:09,213 --> 00:28:11,413
Speaker 3: I was born in the wrong body. It's not even

478
00:28:11,453 --> 00:28:13,693
Speaker 3: a sensible claim to make when you think about it.

479
00:28:13,853 --> 00:28:16,013
Speaker 3: What does it mean you're born in the wrong body?

480
00:28:16,253 --> 00:28:18,013
Speaker 3: And what does it mean that you can just sort

481
00:28:18,053 --> 00:28:21,053
Speaker 3: of stand outside of the facts that are imposed on

482
00:28:21,093 --> 00:28:24,573
Speaker 3: the world that you have you know, X y chromosomes,

483
00:28:25,173 --> 00:28:27,413
Speaker 3: trillions of them all through your body, and you can

484
00:28:27,453 --> 00:28:29,333
Speaker 3: just announce you're going to be a woman. You know,

485
00:28:29,413 --> 00:28:31,573
Speaker 3: I'm sixty five. If I just said no, you know what,

486
00:28:32,053 --> 00:28:33,853
Speaker 3: I feel like, I'm a seven year old. I want

487
00:28:33,853 --> 00:28:36,813
Speaker 3: to go play seven year old sports. I think I

488
00:28:36,813 --> 00:28:39,013
Speaker 3: could still dominate in seven year old sports. I'm not

489
00:28:39,053 --> 00:28:41,573
Speaker 3: sure anymore, but you know, we'd all go You're crazy.

490
00:28:41,653 --> 00:28:44,733
Speaker 3: There's a fact about the world, and so you know,

491
00:28:44,773 --> 00:28:47,333
Speaker 3: for me that transgender stuff is nuts. I don't care

492
00:28:47,533 --> 00:28:49,853
Speaker 3: what people wear or how they want to live, but

493
00:28:49,893 --> 00:28:52,373
Speaker 3: you can't play you can't play girls' sports. It's got

494
00:28:52,373 --> 00:28:52,613
Speaker 3: such a.

495
00:28:52,613 --> 00:28:54,973
Speaker 2: Big advantage society.

496
00:28:55,213 --> 00:28:58,653
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's right. And the noble savage was the idea,

497
00:28:58,693 --> 00:29:01,653
Speaker 3: and he'd lampoons. Is this is the idea that hunter

498
00:29:01,733 --> 00:29:06,413
Speaker 3: gatherer societies were these idyllic, utopian places where everyone got along.

499
00:29:06,773 --> 00:29:09,413
Speaker 3: And we know for a fact that a third to

500
00:29:09,493 --> 00:29:12,533
Speaker 3: a half of men die violently in hunter gathered because

501
00:29:12,533 --> 00:29:17,053
Speaker 3: they're competing for resources, and women get regularly raped and brutalized.

502
00:29:17,373 --> 00:29:20,093
Speaker 3: And nobody wants to live in a hunter gatherer society.

503
00:29:20,773 --> 00:29:24,013
Speaker 3: If you can experience a sort of western welfare state,

504
00:29:24,133 --> 00:29:27,093
Speaker 3: why would you? And you know that's not a criticism,

505
00:29:27,133 --> 00:29:29,413
Speaker 3: that's just the fact about the world and the idea

506
00:29:29,493 --> 00:29:32,773
Speaker 3: that there's some sort of you know, the environment is

507
00:29:32,853 --> 00:29:35,893
Speaker 3: destroyed in hunter gatherer society is because you're every day

508
00:29:35,933 --> 00:29:38,453
Speaker 3: waking up trying to get enough food to eat. So

509
00:29:38,493 --> 00:29:41,173
Speaker 3: who can blame people for destroying the environment. But again

510
00:29:41,533 --> 00:29:45,053
Speaker 3: you get these weird romantic notions of the past. The

511
00:29:45,093 --> 00:29:47,533
Speaker 3: other one about the Ghost and the machine is this

512
00:29:47,653 --> 00:29:51,693
Speaker 3: idea that somehow there's a you that's separate from your brain.

513
00:29:51,773 --> 00:29:54,733
Speaker 3: And you know, I know that some religious people think that.

514
00:29:54,853 --> 00:29:58,053
Speaker 3: I don't. I think Binker's right, But you know that

515
00:29:58,133 --> 00:30:00,453
Speaker 3: the pretty powerful book, and it explains a lot of

516
00:30:00,493 --> 00:30:04,093
Speaker 3: the craziness. It's people who they say they're the party

517
00:30:04,133 --> 00:30:07,413
Speaker 3: of science, but the left isn't. Really. You can't support

518
00:30:07,653 --> 00:30:10,213
Speaker 3: much of the trend gender sort of claims and be

519
00:30:10,253 --> 00:30:14,573
Speaker 3: the party of science, and you can't really talk about

520
00:30:15,853 --> 00:30:20,013
Speaker 3: some of the claims being made about hunter gatherer civilizations

521
00:30:20,013 --> 00:30:21,933
Speaker 3: and be the party of science. Is we just know

522
00:30:22,053 --> 00:30:25,213
Speaker 3: that a lot of it's wrong, indeed, And it's not

523
00:30:25,253 --> 00:30:29,013
Speaker 3: a judgment. I mean I didn't there was no merit

524
00:30:29,093 --> 00:30:31,573
Speaker 3: based on me. I won the lottery of life by

525
00:30:31,613 --> 00:30:35,533
Speaker 3: being born in Canada, you know, in the nineteen sixties

526
00:30:35,613 --> 00:30:39,333
Speaker 3: speaking English. Already, When you speak English, you have won

527
00:30:39,373 --> 00:30:41,373
Speaker 3: the lottery of life. I can go as a lawyer

528
00:30:41,413 --> 00:30:44,813
Speaker 3: and work anywhere, and all non English speakers have to

529
00:30:44,813 --> 00:30:47,853
Speaker 3: speak my language. If I'm a scientist, I can go

530
00:30:47,893 --> 00:30:50,133
Speaker 3: anywhere and speak English and they all have to speak

531
00:30:50,173 --> 00:30:52,293
Speaker 3: English or they can't get their papers published.

532
00:30:52,573 --> 00:30:55,413
Speaker 2: We have other people, Sorry, yeah, we have an audience.

533
00:30:55,693 --> 00:30:58,973
Speaker 2: We have an audience in Canada. We have an audience there,

534
00:30:59,053 --> 00:31:00,973
Speaker 2: we have an audience in the States. But that's not

535
00:31:01,373 --> 00:31:05,493
Speaker 2: why I mentioned that. If that was your lot I win,

536
00:31:06,813 --> 00:31:09,773
Speaker 2: being born in Canada and speaking English, what was your

537
00:31:09,853 --> 00:31:10,733
Speaker 2: second lot I win?

538
00:31:12,493 --> 00:31:17,733
Speaker 3: Oh? Well, you know I made I was well. I

539
00:31:17,813 --> 00:31:20,893
Speaker 3: was very lucky that my wife picked me. I'm coming

540
00:31:20,973 --> 00:31:23,573
Speaker 3: up to my fortieth anniversary coming up in a couple

541
00:31:23,653 --> 00:31:28,053
Speaker 3: of months, and you know I got I must have

542
00:31:28,093 --> 00:31:30,493
Speaker 3: caught her at a really down moment and after big

543
00:31:30,573 --> 00:31:34,013
Speaker 3: night out drinking, because you know that that's the best

544
00:31:34,013 --> 00:31:35,733
Speaker 3: thing that's happened to me. I've just been really lucky.

545
00:31:36,373 --> 00:31:38,733
Speaker 3: But leaving a side and you know, it's way more

546
00:31:38,733 --> 00:31:41,853
Speaker 3: important to who you marry than than the jobs you pick.

547
00:31:43,013 --> 00:31:46,733
Speaker 3: But leaving that aside, Yeah, getting out and just we

548
00:31:46,893 --> 00:31:49,693
Speaker 3: just took jobs all over. We went first to Hong

549
00:31:49,773 --> 00:31:52,853
Speaker 3: Kong before the handover, which is one of the great

550
00:31:52,973 --> 00:31:54,813
Speaker 3: four years of my life. It was like living in

551
00:31:54,813 --> 00:31:57,893
Speaker 3: a Somerset mom short story. It was just magnificent. And

552
00:31:57,933 --> 00:31:59,573
Speaker 3: now it's so sad. I can't eat, I can't go

553
00:31:59,693 --> 00:32:01,573
Speaker 3: back to Hong Kong. It's so sad. What's happened there

554
00:32:03,013 --> 00:32:05,693
Speaker 3: and then going. I loved, we loved our eleven years

555
00:32:05,693 --> 00:32:08,973
Speaker 3: in New Zealand. I'm glad I didn't. Actually, I practiced

556
00:32:09,013 --> 00:32:11,733
Speaker 3: law at a big firm and then for a year and

557
00:32:11,773 --> 00:32:15,093
Speaker 3: a bit in at the bar in London, and being

558
00:32:15,093 --> 00:32:17,213
Speaker 3: a barrister in London is actually quite a nice sort

559
00:32:17,213 --> 00:32:19,853
Speaker 3: of way to spend your life. But there were all

560
00:32:19,893 --> 00:32:21,813
Speaker 3: sorts of reasons I couldn't do that, Vias the reasons

561
00:32:21,853 --> 00:32:25,333
Speaker 3: and stuff being a lawyer in a big corporate law firm,

562
00:32:25,333 --> 00:32:27,253
Speaker 3: which I did for FUSE in Toronto. You know, two

563
00:32:27,293 --> 00:32:29,453
Speaker 3: hundred plus lawyers in the firm.

564
00:32:29,573 --> 00:32:30,173
Speaker 2: Where was that?

565
00:32:30,893 --> 00:32:33,573
Speaker 3: Toronto? I didn't like it, and you know I saw

566
00:32:33,613 --> 00:32:37,373
Speaker 3: I've never I mean everyone's motivated by money to some extent,

567
00:32:37,373 --> 00:32:39,493
Speaker 3: but it's never been the main motivation for me. I've

568
00:32:39,493 --> 00:32:43,653
Speaker 3: been sort of I just I like, I've sort of

569
00:32:43,653 --> 00:32:47,533
Speaker 3: fell into working in universities when it was really still fun.

570
00:32:47,853 --> 00:32:50,253
Speaker 3: My four years in Hong Kong at the brand new

571
00:32:50,333 --> 00:32:53,213
Speaker 3: Universey were really fun, and the Tago Law School from

572
00:32:54,213 --> 00:32:56,653
Speaker 3: ninety three to two thousand and four was great. I'm

573
00:32:56,693 --> 00:33:00,573
Speaker 3: afraid to say it is from what I hear, it

574
00:33:00,613 --> 00:33:02,653
Speaker 3: is not the same place that I left.

575
00:33:03,373 --> 00:33:09,213
Speaker 2: Let me reassure you your hearing is right, but seeing

576
00:33:09,253 --> 00:33:13,973
Speaker 2: you've raised it. In two thousand and ten, I took

577
00:33:14,053 --> 00:33:17,973
Speaker 2: my boy the second one. We went to Melbourne. He

578
00:33:18,813 --> 00:33:20,573
Speaker 2: got the idea that he might like to go to

579
00:33:20,573 --> 00:33:26,133
Speaker 2: Melbourne University, and we went to Melbourne. There's a whole

580
00:33:26,133 --> 00:33:29,733
Speaker 2: story here, but i'll reduce it. And we arrived on

581
00:33:29,773 --> 00:33:31,573
Speaker 2: a day we didn't know. We arrived on a day

582
00:33:31,573 --> 00:33:33,413
Speaker 2: when it was an open It was a public holiday,

583
00:33:33,453 --> 00:33:37,013
Speaker 2: but the university was open with tours and all of that.

584
00:33:37,773 --> 00:33:40,533
Speaker 2: So we went and he decided he wanted to be

585
00:33:40,653 --> 00:33:44,573
Speaker 2: on the campus. And there's only one college on the campus,

586
00:33:45,053 --> 00:33:47,173
Speaker 2: and he gained everybody wants to go there, and he

587
00:33:47,253 --> 00:33:51,573
Speaker 2: got access, he got approved, got approved for law, and

588
00:33:51,653 --> 00:33:53,413
Speaker 2: he decided he wasn't going to go to Melbourne after

589
00:33:53,453 --> 00:33:56,813
Speaker 2: that because there was a clash in subjects. He wanted

590
00:33:56,853 --> 00:34:02,093
Speaker 2: to do history, specifically, he loves history, and he said, no,

591
00:34:02,813 --> 00:34:07,013
Speaker 2: I'm going to go to Otago. And I breathed something

592
00:34:07,053 --> 00:34:10,053
Speaker 2: of a sigh of relief, because even though my father,

593
00:34:10,133 --> 00:34:13,213
Speaker 2: his grandfather went to Melbourne and I had cousins and

594
00:34:13,373 --> 00:34:16,653
Speaker 2: uncles who were lecturers there, I would have had to

595
00:34:16,653 --> 00:34:19,773
Speaker 2: pay for it through the nose and it's a different

596
00:34:19,813 --> 00:34:24,653
Speaker 2: story down down in Otago. Now, he was very happy

597
00:34:24,693 --> 00:34:27,173
Speaker 2: that he went to a Tago and so was I

598
00:34:27,653 --> 00:34:31,613
Speaker 2: question is, what would you advise if it was today

599
00:34:31,693 --> 00:34:34,773
Speaker 2: that that was taking place that discussion. What would your

600
00:34:34,813 --> 00:34:35,333
Speaker 2: advice be.

601
00:34:36,733 --> 00:34:40,413
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, there's an awful lot of degrees that

602
00:34:40,613 --> 00:34:44,813
Speaker 3: universities now give which have basically a negative value. I mean,

603
00:34:44,933 --> 00:34:47,373
Speaker 3: part of the problem is we've become credential mad. There's

604
00:34:47,413 --> 00:34:49,693
Speaker 3: a lot of jobs people used to do without a

605
00:34:49,853 --> 00:34:53,893
Speaker 3: university degree, and now it's the sort of arms race

606
00:34:53,933 --> 00:34:56,373
Speaker 3: of credentials, and you need to have a degree just

607
00:34:56,373 --> 00:34:57,933
Speaker 3: to do a job that really no one with a

608
00:34:57,973 --> 00:35:01,253
Speaker 3: straight face thinks needs a degree. And that's partly because

609
00:35:01,293 --> 00:35:03,893
Speaker 3: governments like to say, I've got fifty percent of the

610
00:35:03,933 --> 00:35:08,013
Speaker 3: young people in the university. But universities really don't really

611
00:35:08,053 --> 00:35:10,813
Speaker 3: need to cater They shouldn't be catering to fifty percent

612
00:35:10,853 --> 00:35:13,013
Speaker 3: of young And that's not a criticism of people who

613
00:35:13,013 --> 00:35:15,613
Speaker 3: don't go to university. I mean, right now in Britaine

614
00:35:15,613 --> 00:35:18,173
Speaker 3: we're about the there's going to be huge building for

615
00:35:18,253 --> 00:35:20,733
Speaker 3: the twenty thirty two Olympics. They can't get any tradees.

616
00:35:22,413 --> 00:35:26,933
Speaker 3: So here's the weird thing. We cut tuition fees at university.

617
00:35:28,333 --> 00:35:31,053
Speaker 3: That's basically one of the pledges right now in the

618
00:35:31,173 --> 00:35:34,453
Speaker 3: current campaign over here. And so people who are going

619
00:35:34,493 --> 00:35:37,813
Speaker 3: into law and medicine, upper middle class kids are getting

620
00:35:37,853 --> 00:35:42,413
Speaker 3: subsidized by hairdressers and plumbers who have to pay taxes

621
00:35:42,453 --> 00:35:46,493
Speaker 3: to support these people. It's a moral disgrace, and it's

622
00:35:46,573 --> 00:35:48,733
Speaker 3: even worse when it comes from a left wing party

623
00:35:49,493 --> 00:35:51,293
Speaker 3: because they're supposed to care about that. Well, we know

624
00:35:51,373 --> 00:35:53,413
Speaker 3: they don't, and there's a flip going on in the

625
00:35:53,453 --> 00:35:58,853
Speaker 3: political spectrum. But how you can defend cutting tuition fees

626
00:35:59,093 --> 00:36:01,413
Speaker 3: which means it's coming out of the general revenue, which

627
00:36:01,453 --> 00:36:04,413
Speaker 3: means it's coming out of taxes, and we don't. No

628
00:36:04,493 --> 00:36:06,133
Speaker 3: one says, hey, you know, we're going to give you

629
00:36:06,173 --> 00:36:09,933
Speaker 3: a free apprenticeship. In fact, it's really hard to do

630
00:36:10,053 --> 00:36:13,813
Speaker 3: apprenticeships now because they've so overregulated them. Or you know,

631
00:36:13,973 --> 00:36:15,893
Speaker 3: these young girls have to go and pay to go

632
00:36:15,933 --> 00:36:19,573
Speaker 3: and become learn how to be hairdressers or peuticians or whatever.

633
00:36:20,173 --> 00:36:22,693
Speaker 3: So the whole world is skewed on that front. And

634
00:36:23,413 --> 00:36:26,053
Speaker 3: so other than the fact of the matter that you

635
00:36:26,093 --> 00:36:29,333
Speaker 3: often need a credential for employers to let you in

636
00:36:29,373 --> 00:36:32,493
Speaker 3: the door, and I think that's changing it certainly it's

637
00:36:32,573 --> 00:36:34,853
Speaker 3: changing in the US. More and more people are saying,

638
00:36:35,453 --> 00:36:37,493
Speaker 3: you know, you've gone off and done a women's studies

639
00:36:37,493 --> 00:36:43,253
Speaker 3: degree or you know, Aboriginal studies degree or whatever, indigenous

640
00:36:43,293 --> 00:36:46,013
Speaker 3: studies degree, and you've just become you know, it's like

641
00:36:46,173 --> 00:36:49,613
Speaker 3: weaponized grievance politics, And I'm not sure why would you

642
00:36:49,653 --> 00:36:52,813
Speaker 3: want to hire a person like that, what you So,

643
00:36:53,333 --> 00:36:55,493
Speaker 3: of course, there are some degrees that are well worth

644
00:36:55,973 --> 00:37:00,693
Speaker 3: doing and they're moderately not too political. So engineering, even

645
00:37:00,733 --> 00:37:03,133
Speaker 3: engineering is being politicized, but it's a bit harder to

646
00:37:03,133 --> 00:37:08,613
Speaker 3: politicize engineering obviously if you have numeracy. My first degree

647
00:37:08,613 --> 00:37:10,693
Speaker 3: in math. If you're good at math, you're always going

648
00:37:10,733 --> 00:37:13,773
Speaker 3: to get a job. But a lot of degrees, so

649
00:37:13,813 --> 00:37:17,293
Speaker 3: I went through and did philosophy, English history a bit

650
00:37:17,333 --> 00:37:19,813
Speaker 3: along because you do a first degree in Canada along

651
00:37:19,853 --> 00:37:23,773
Speaker 3: with the math. The kind of courses I just aren't

652
00:37:24,013 --> 00:37:29,413
Speaker 3: they just start offered anymore by universities very much. Well,

653
00:37:29,453 --> 00:37:30,973
Speaker 3: you know, we always had everyone had to do a

654
00:37:30,973 --> 00:37:33,533
Speaker 3: survey course on Western civilization. You'd sort of you know,

655
00:37:33,613 --> 00:37:35,693
Speaker 3: they used to joke about it, from Plato to Nato

656
00:37:36,333 --> 00:37:39,613
Speaker 3: and those are great courses you learned about, you know,

657
00:37:39,693 --> 00:37:43,933
Speaker 3: everybody starting with the ancient Greeks and making your way forward. Well,

658
00:37:43,933 --> 00:37:48,493
Speaker 3: they you know, they were seen to be idol, idealizing

659
00:37:48,573 --> 00:37:51,773
Speaker 3: or something Western civilization. But it's not like we didn't

660
00:37:51,813 --> 00:37:54,613
Speaker 3: look at the flaw. I mean, everyone should read Machiavelli,

661
00:37:55,813 --> 00:37:58,253
Speaker 3: you know, everyone should read a bit of Freud. He's crazy.

662
00:37:58,293 --> 00:38:02,733
Speaker 3: But and so that's gone and history has become more well,

663
00:38:02,733 --> 00:38:04,493
Speaker 3: we don't want to look at the great men in history.

664
00:38:04,533 --> 00:38:06,853
Speaker 3: We want to look at what happened to the chamber

665
00:38:06,933 --> 00:38:09,653
Speaker 3: maid in the seventeen So it's nobody cares. We all

666
00:38:09,653 --> 00:38:12,453
Speaker 3: know they had a terrible life. I mean, it's not

667
00:38:12,493 --> 00:38:16,893
Speaker 3: that difficult to use your imagination to know that ninety

668
00:38:16,973 --> 00:38:19,333
Speaker 3: nine percent of people in the fifteen hundreds of the

669
00:38:19,413 --> 00:38:22,853
Speaker 3: sixteen hundreds in the seventeen I had a pretty terrible life,

670
00:38:23,333 --> 00:38:27,133
Speaker 3: and it was worse before then. And so why why

671
00:38:27,173 --> 00:38:29,013
Speaker 3: you know you could you could sum that up in

672
00:38:29,093 --> 00:38:32,413
Speaker 3: about half an hour, but we so so the courses

673
00:38:33,093 --> 00:38:35,693
Speaker 3: are being cannibalized because the people who teach them are

674
00:38:35,693 --> 00:38:37,293
Speaker 3: teaching them in a way that no one wants to

675
00:38:37,333 --> 00:38:40,133
Speaker 3: take them, and they're collapsing. You can see in the

676
00:38:40,253 --> 00:38:45,213
Speaker 3: US that people taking the sort of humanities type courses.

677
00:38:46,733 --> 00:38:49,613
Speaker 3: The numbers are collapsing, which is a real shame. I mean,

678
00:38:49,613 --> 00:38:52,173
Speaker 3: at one point when in the nineteen eighties half of

679
00:38:52,253 --> 00:38:54,773
Speaker 3: the CEOs on New York Stock Exchange, the S and

680
00:38:54,773 --> 00:38:58,453
Speaker 3: P five hundred whatever it's called, had philosophy degrees is

681
00:38:58,493 --> 00:39:01,773
Speaker 3: their first degree, because it taught analytical thinking, it taught

682
00:39:01,853 --> 00:39:04,933
Speaker 3: taking arguments apart. One of the great degrees you could

683
00:39:04,933 --> 00:39:08,973
Speaker 3: have was a philosophy degree. Not now. I mean, it's okay,

684
00:39:09,053 --> 00:39:11,853
Speaker 3: but it's not what it was. So I don't know.

685
00:39:11,893 --> 00:39:13,533
Speaker 3: I think it depends what you want to do. It's

686
00:39:13,573 --> 00:39:14,853
Speaker 3: hard to give general advice.

687
00:39:15,053 --> 00:39:18,373
Speaker 2: Well, so many young people who don't know what they

688
00:39:18,413 --> 00:39:18,853
Speaker 2: want to do.

689
00:39:19,573 --> 00:39:22,133
Speaker 3: Well, you know, we went to university without even worrying

690
00:39:22,133 --> 00:39:24,573
Speaker 3: about a job and never cried. My parents never said

691
00:39:24,613 --> 00:39:28,613
Speaker 3: anything about it. I never thought about it. You just figured, okay, well,

692
00:39:28,613 --> 00:39:31,213
Speaker 3: this is the time of life to learn go away

693
00:39:31,253 --> 00:39:33,253
Speaker 3: from That's another great thing about Totago. At the time

694
00:39:33,333 --> 00:39:36,293
Speaker 3: you'd go away from home. He learned academic stuff, he

695
00:39:36,413 --> 00:39:38,933
Speaker 3: learned how to live by yourself, how to drink and

696
00:39:38,973 --> 00:39:41,653
Speaker 3: the flat how to drink, and you know, the Puritans

697
00:39:41,653 --> 00:39:44,773
Speaker 3: have taken over. The university's one of the great rituals.

698
00:39:45,253 --> 00:39:48,293
Speaker 3: I'll get in trouble reminding people of this, but one

699
00:39:48,333 --> 00:39:50,693
Speaker 3: of the great rituals every year at Otago while I

700
00:39:50,773 --> 00:39:52,653
Speaker 3: was there for eleven years, was at the start of

701
00:39:52,693 --> 00:39:55,493
Speaker 3: the Frosh week, at the beginning of the calendar year

702
00:39:55,533 --> 00:39:58,333
Speaker 3: academic year. One of the beer companies, off the top

703
00:39:58,373 --> 00:40:00,093
Speaker 3: of my head, I think it was Twoeys would always

704
00:40:00,413 --> 00:40:03,533
Speaker 3: buy all the billboards around campus, and the billboard always

705
00:40:03,533 --> 00:40:08,293
Speaker 3: said Twoey's Beer helping ugly people have sex for you know,

706
00:40:08,453 --> 00:40:11,093
Speaker 3: eighty seven years or whatever it was. It was funny

707
00:40:11,173 --> 00:40:14,053
Speaker 3: and it had an element of truth to it. Today

708
00:40:14,133 --> 00:40:16,973
Speaker 3: they would say, oh, you can't say that. Well, you know,

709
00:40:17,013 --> 00:40:19,653
Speaker 3: it's too bad because you know, the Puritans are boring,

710
00:40:21,013 --> 00:40:23,133
Speaker 3: you know, a little bit of humor in life, because

711
00:40:23,213 --> 00:40:24,613
Speaker 3: you know, it's partly.

712
00:40:24,293 --> 00:40:26,853
Speaker 2: True well being almost eradicated.

713
00:40:27,493 --> 00:40:29,773
Speaker 3: It's been almost eradicated. And then that, you know, the

714
00:40:29,853 --> 00:40:33,693
Speaker 3: university has become massively overregulated. So I don't know. Someone

715
00:40:33,733 --> 00:40:36,973
Speaker 3: told me there's like six deputy vice chancellors of the Tago. Now,

716
00:40:37,213 --> 00:40:39,093
Speaker 3: when I was there, I think there was one, and

717
00:40:39,173 --> 00:40:44,293
Speaker 3: even that was too many. And in Australia. The so

718
00:40:44,373 --> 00:40:47,493
Speaker 3: this thing, this actually unites academics on the left and

719
00:40:47,573 --> 00:40:49,853
Speaker 3: the right of the political spectrum. We all hate the

720
00:40:49,933 --> 00:40:55,453
Speaker 3: massively over bureaucratic universities. And in Australia, the wage bill,

721
00:40:55,933 --> 00:40:58,173
Speaker 3: well well over fifty percent of the wage bill goes

722
00:40:58,213 --> 00:41:01,853
Speaker 3: to people in universities who are not teaching and not publishing.

723
00:41:02,293 --> 00:41:05,013
Speaker 3: They're administering who would run their own small business. Where

724
00:41:05,493 --> 00:41:07,813
Speaker 3: half the money went to people who managed the people

725
00:41:07,853 --> 00:41:11,053
Speaker 3: who were making the money. This is nuts, right, And

726
00:41:11,093 --> 00:41:13,653
Speaker 3: that's what we have in the universities. They have these

727
00:41:13,693 --> 00:41:16,533
Speaker 3: affirmative action things which they dress up in the language

728
00:41:16,573 --> 00:41:21,733
Speaker 3: of DEI or you know, Indigenous concerns or whatever, and

729
00:41:21,773 --> 00:41:27,773
Speaker 3: they have I just have these massive bodies who make

730
00:41:27,813 --> 00:41:30,573
Speaker 3: you get grants and they look for grant getting. You know,

731
00:41:30,613 --> 00:41:33,933
Speaker 3: these are inputs. Government gives money, the university hires all

732
00:41:33,933 --> 00:41:35,893
Speaker 3: sorts of people to help you get the money. And

733
00:41:35,933 --> 00:41:37,973
Speaker 3: then you get the money and you use the grant

734
00:41:38,013 --> 00:41:41,293
Speaker 3: to write an article. And here's the truth about universites

735
00:41:41,293 --> 00:41:44,933
Speaker 3: that I still staggered. If you had two academics who

736
00:41:44,933 --> 00:41:48,173
Speaker 3: are exactly equal and one of them wrote a great

737
00:41:48,253 --> 00:41:51,053
Speaker 3: article in the top journal in the world, with no

738
00:41:51,173 --> 00:41:54,613
Speaker 3: money from government, no grant, and the other one you

739
00:41:54,613 --> 00:41:57,333
Speaker 3: know put in for this ten million dollar grant. It

740
00:41:57,373 --> 00:42:00,133
Speaker 3: wrote the exact same article. Well, the person who took

741
00:42:00,213 --> 00:42:02,933
Speaker 3: no taxpayer money would be treated as a pariat and

742
00:42:02,973 --> 00:42:05,933
Speaker 3: not get promoted. And I'm not joking about that. Because

743
00:42:05,933 --> 00:42:09,653
Speaker 3: you must get grants. Why no one can answer that,

744
00:42:10,053 --> 00:42:12,773
Speaker 3: because you have to keep people who work in the university.

745
00:42:12,813 --> 00:42:15,613
Speaker 3: Is getting the grants employed? Is the real answer? The

746
00:42:15,653 --> 00:42:18,333
Speaker 3: government outside of the hard sciences should end. Well you

747
00:42:18,333 --> 00:42:20,133
Speaker 3: did end that. That's one good thing Watson has done.

748
00:42:20,173 --> 00:42:24,093
Speaker 3: Actually they've ended all the Marsden grants and the social

749
00:42:24,093 --> 00:42:28,013
Speaker 3: sciences and humanity, so that was a great thing. I

750
00:42:28,053 --> 00:42:30,613
Speaker 3: can't I commend I commend them on that.

751
00:42:31,493 --> 00:42:35,493
Speaker 2: Let me go back to set a Field complaint over

752
00:42:35,573 --> 00:42:39,573
Speaker 2: teaching Ta Kung and Mary in law schools rejected. I

753
00:42:39,613 --> 00:42:44,573
Speaker 2: want you, I want your explanation for this, whatever it is.

754
00:42:45,173 --> 00:42:47,573
Speaker 2: So a Select committee this we know, we know the

755
00:42:47,653 --> 00:42:52,373
Speaker 2: story because Gary Judd Casey had lodged a complaint and

756
00:42:52,413 --> 00:42:54,773
Speaker 2: it went it went to Parliament to a Select committee

757
00:42:54,853 --> 00:42:58,013
Speaker 2: to be to be discussed and decided upon. So a

758
00:42:58,053 --> 00:43:04,413
Speaker 2: select committee has largely rejected a campaign over regulations requiring

759
00:43:04,893 --> 00:43:09,453
Speaker 2: law schools to teach students about tea kunger in Brackett's tradition,

760
00:43:09,853 --> 00:43:15,013
Speaker 2: but recommended changes based on a related concern. First made

761
00:43:15,293 --> 00:43:18,933
Speaker 2: public in twenty three and taking effect from the start

762
00:43:18,973 --> 00:43:22,653
Speaker 2: of this year. The regulatory changes would require a compulsory

763
00:43:22,693 --> 00:43:26,893
Speaker 2: law course on t Kunga mari under the Legal Education curriculum,

764
00:43:27,213 --> 00:43:30,373
Speaker 2: as well as the inclusion of relevant content on t

765
00:43:30,573 --> 00:43:35,733
Speaker 2: Kunga mariy in existing compulsory courses. Committee said requiring tea

766
00:43:35,813 --> 00:43:38,613
Speaker 2: hunger be taught as a mandatory part of the other

767
00:43:38,693 --> 00:43:43,293
Speaker 2: subjects rather than only as a separate compulsory course was

768
00:43:43,533 --> 00:43:47,973
Speaker 2: unusual and unexpected and should be changed. A Labour said

769
00:43:48,013 --> 00:43:49,853
Speaker 2: there was no need to change it. The Green said

770
00:43:50,253 --> 00:43:55,013
Speaker 2: the compliance sorry, the complaint process was flawed, and Act

771
00:43:55,013 --> 00:43:59,213
Speaker 2: said the complaint should be upheld in full. Sure it

772
00:43:59,253 --> 00:44:02,453
Speaker 2: did need you on first say A Deputy Prime Minister

773
00:44:02,493 --> 00:44:06,973
Speaker 2: Winston Peters supported Judge's complaint and said teaching ta kunger

774
00:44:07,133 --> 00:44:13,093
Speaker 2: was cultural indoctrination. Now why did the committee decide the

775
00:44:13,093 --> 00:44:15,373
Speaker 2: way that it did well.

776
00:44:15,413 --> 00:44:18,173
Speaker 3: The political answer is because mister Luxeon and the National

777
00:44:18,213 --> 00:44:23,133
Speaker 3: Party are cowards. That's the simple answer. But again, nobody

778
00:44:23,173 --> 00:44:26,333
Speaker 3: can even say what ta kanga maori is. It's sort

779
00:44:26,333 --> 00:44:30,213
Speaker 3: of like indigenizing the curriculum. I mean, it's a nifty

780
00:44:30,253 --> 00:44:33,573
Speaker 3: little trick. Your top court can just sort of bring

781
00:44:33,653 --> 00:44:36,013
Speaker 3: this thing out of nowhere in the Peter Ellis case,

782
00:44:36,053 --> 00:44:38,893
Speaker 3: and then the lawyers can say, well, look we have

783
00:44:39,013 --> 00:44:42,533
Speaker 3: to study this because it's got actual relevance in the

784
00:44:42,653 --> 00:44:45,853
Speaker 3: legal world. Why because it's been made up by your

785
00:44:45,853 --> 00:44:49,173
Speaker 3: top judges and imposed into the system. And so they

786
00:44:49,173 --> 00:44:51,813
Speaker 3: can say, look, you just have to know this stuff.

787
00:44:51,853 --> 00:44:53,773
Speaker 3: Even though you can say, well what is it. We

788
00:44:53,893 --> 00:44:57,573
Speaker 3: have to know what aspects of t kanga maori are there.

789
00:44:58,053 --> 00:45:00,013
Speaker 3: I mean, I assume that no one wants to have

790
00:45:00,093 --> 00:45:05,933
Speaker 3: the sort of you know, early eighteen hundred's Maori dispute

791
00:45:05,973 --> 00:45:09,813
Speaker 3: resolution system in play. So again it always seems to

792
00:45:09,813 --> 00:45:14,053
Speaker 3: boil down to well, uh, you know, a generous appreciation

793
00:45:14,333 --> 00:45:18,013
Speaker 3: of this culture, and again, what does that? What does

794
00:45:18,013 --> 00:45:20,893
Speaker 3: that tell you about how you ought to be citing

795
00:45:20,933 --> 00:45:24,333
Speaker 3: things as a lawyer. It's very hard to understand other

796
00:45:24,413 --> 00:45:28,933
Speaker 3: than as a vehicle which demands that you have this

797
00:45:29,053 --> 00:45:31,453
Speaker 3: view of the world where all cultures are equal, which

798
00:45:31,453 --> 00:45:35,373
Speaker 3: I don't think is true in any factual not true,

799
00:45:35,733 --> 00:45:41,773
Speaker 3: and it's also it's because it's characterized in sort of vague, morphous,

800
00:45:42,133 --> 00:45:45,493
Speaker 3: fluffy terms. It's a vehicle that allows you to accomplish

801
00:45:45,573 --> 00:45:50,013
Speaker 3: left wing things, never right wing things. So that you

802
00:45:50,133 --> 00:45:53,453
Speaker 3: just knew that the court, the supreme your your top court,

803
00:45:53,493 --> 00:45:56,613
Speaker 3: would this would make a declaration that you have to

804
00:45:56,653 --> 00:45:59,213
Speaker 3: take the voting age down to sixteen, something that no

805
00:45:59,293 --> 00:46:02,733
Speaker 3: conservative party wants, but lots of left wing parties want.

806
00:46:03,093 --> 00:46:05,573
Speaker 3: You know, they would never you know where they're never

807
00:46:05,613 --> 00:46:09,453
Speaker 3: going to make a declaration because lawyers and the lawyerly

808
00:46:09,653 --> 00:46:12,893
Speaker 3: cast are today far to the left of the median voter.

809
00:46:13,573 --> 00:46:16,253
Speaker 3: There's tons of empirical data on this from the US,

810
00:46:16,933 --> 00:46:21,173
Speaker 3: where political donations are are public information. But you know,

811
00:46:21,173 --> 00:46:23,173
Speaker 3: I've to say this all the time. If you went

812
00:46:23,213 --> 00:46:26,813
Speaker 3: back sixty years, the median voter would probably be more

813
00:46:26,853 --> 00:46:30,653
Speaker 3: conservative than sorry, the median lawyer would be more conservative

814
00:46:30,693 --> 00:46:33,733
Speaker 3: than the median voter. Today, it's a standard deviation to

815
00:46:33,773 --> 00:46:37,253
Speaker 3: the left. At least if the most woke woke workplaces

816
00:46:37,293 --> 00:46:39,973
Speaker 3: you'll find in museum go into a big Auca law firm,

817
00:46:40,293 --> 00:46:42,853
Speaker 3: I mean, you better have your pronoun sort of tattooed

818
00:46:42,893 --> 00:46:47,053
Speaker 3: on your forehead, and you know, there's no humor. No,

819
00:46:47,653 --> 00:46:51,213
Speaker 3: it's all left progressive. You know, let's get guys in

820
00:46:51,293 --> 00:46:55,373
Speaker 3: miniskirts out there playing playing women's sports. So it's it's

821
00:46:55,373 --> 00:46:56,613
Speaker 3: a weird phenomenon.

822
00:46:56,973 --> 00:47:01,093
Speaker 2: So how did how did that start to arrive at

823
00:47:01,093 --> 00:47:03,453
Speaker 2: that point? What's the first step?

824
00:47:05,493 --> 00:47:07,653
Speaker 3: Well, here's one of the geniuses of Trump as he

825
00:47:07,733 --> 00:47:12,173
Speaker 3: manages to get the Democratic Party to take sides on

826
00:47:12,333 --> 00:47:15,213
Speaker 3: eighty twenty issues, like eighty percent of Americans think it's

827
00:47:15,293 --> 00:47:18,573
Speaker 3: crazy to have, you know, men playing women's sports or

828
00:47:19,453 --> 00:47:22,533
Speaker 3: men who identify as women playing women's sports. And yet

829
00:47:22,573 --> 00:47:24,613
Speaker 3: this is the hill that the Democrats seem to want

830
00:47:24,613 --> 00:47:28,613
Speaker 3: to die on. You just can run through the cultural issues.

831
00:47:29,373 --> 00:47:31,333
Speaker 3: And one of the things I don't understand. We see

832
00:47:31,333 --> 00:47:34,933
Speaker 3: this here in Australia at the time Conservative parties don't

833
00:47:34,933 --> 00:47:39,293
Speaker 3: want to fight the culture wars, whereas the culture wars

834
00:47:39,293 --> 00:47:43,373
Speaker 3: are a winning political issue, and they did pools in

835
00:47:43,413 --> 00:47:47,653
Speaker 3: the US, and the three big issues were firstly immigration,

836
00:47:48,373 --> 00:47:53,973
Speaker 3: secondly pocketbook issues, and thirdly cultural issues transgender issues. How

837
00:47:54,013 --> 00:47:57,493
Speaker 3: the universities around all that woke stuff DEI But in

838
00:47:57,533 --> 00:48:00,773
Speaker 3: a lot of the key states, what won it for

839
00:48:00,853 --> 00:48:04,373
Speaker 3: Trump was taking a hard line on cultural issues and

840
00:48:04,533 --> 00:48:09,013
Speaker 3: this is just obvious. I mean, if people knew how

841
00:48:09,133 --> 00:48:12,053
Speaker 3: much merit was undermined in universities by that. I mean,

842
00:48:12,693 --> 00:48:14,533
Speaker 3: you know, if you're a white male, you do not

843
00:48:14,693 --> 00:48:18,413
Speaker 3: have the same opportunities for scholarships or a lot of

844
00:48:18,453 --> 00:48:20,613
Speaker 3: other things that you do if you're you know, a

845
00:48:20,653 --> 00:48:24,773
Speaker 3: favored group. And then identity politics is arbitrary. They just

846
00:48:25,093 --> 00:48:30,373
Speaker 3: pick groups arbitrarily. You know, someone's one quarter group acts

847
00:48:30,373 --> 00:48:34,053
Speaker 3: and three quarters group. Why why is that person group acts?

848
00:48:34,413 --> 00:48:36,853
Speaker 3: Why aren't they group? Why? No one can ever say.

849
00:48:37,373 --> 00:48:41,493
Speaker 3: It's like the old you know, pre pre Civil War

850
00:48:41,653 --> 00:48:45,173
Speaker 3: US rule that if you had any black blood in you,

851
00:48:45,173 --> 00:48:48,813
Speaker 3: you were black. You know, it's racist and it's bizarre,

852
00:48:49,453 --> 00:48:52,133
Speaker 3: and so I don't really understand. I know, it's a

853
00:48:52,213 --> 00:48:56,333
Speaker 3: sort of utopian left wing view of the world where

854
00:48:56,573 --> 00:48:59,333
Speaker 3: you know, Marxism has an economic policy was a disaster.

855
00:48:59,453 --> 00:49:02,093
Speaker 3: So they've given up on that and they channeled it

856
00:49:02,133 --> 00:49:07,693
Speaker 3: into a sort of Marxist type view about the role

857
00:49:07,773 --> 00:49:10,813
Speaker 3: of women and society or the role of people who

858
00:49:10,853 --> 00:49:15,333
Speaker 3: have mixed ancestry. So just into our just into our

859
00:49:15,373 --> 00:49:18,533
Speaker 3: in the sorry, just in the price. Here in Australia,

860
00:49:18,693 --> 00:49:21,973
Speaker 3: the last referendum to change the Constitution to put in

861
00:49:22,013 --> 00:49:25,693
Speaker 3: a to put in a sort of bizarre and what

862
00:49:25,733 --> 00:49:30,533
Speaker 3: would have been a disastrous entrenched body in the Constitution.

863
00:49:31,093 --> 00:49:33,293
Speaker 3: She was again she led the nokame. At one point

864
00:49:33,333 --> 00:49:36,573
Speaker 3: she said, well, I'm you know, over fifty percent Aboriginal,

865
00:49:37,173 --> 00:49:40,653
Speaker 3: and I think that life for Aboriginal people is a

866
00:49:40,693 --> 00:49:44,373
Speaker 3: lot better since the arrival of Captain Cook and the

867
00:49:44,613 --> 00:49:48,573
Speaker 3: and the Brits. And in terms of life span, she's right.

868
00:49:49,093 --> 00:49:51,813
Speaker 3: And in terms of the plight of women there is

869
00:49:51,973 --> 00:49:55,133
Speaker 3: absolutely no doubt. And in terms of your you know,

870
00:49:55,173 --> 00:49:58,053
Speaker 3: you can just go through the list of things. But

871
00:49:58,253 --> 00:50:01,693
Speaker 3: you know, she was pilloried. You're allowed to say that,

872
00:50:01,733 --> 00:50:05,533
Speaker 3: You're not allowed to say that, you know, this life

873
00:50:05,573 --> 00:50:09,773
Speaker 3: has been better. Nobody, nobody can control how they were

874
00:50:09,813 --> 00:50:13,493
Speaker 3: born and who their parents were, and so you get

875
00:50:13,533 --> 00:50:16,013
Speaker 3: no credit for that, You get no credit for your

876
00:50:16,013 --> 00:50:19,173
Speaker 3: skin color, and you get no downside. You have to

877
00:50:19,173 --> 00:50:21,413
Speaker 3: make the best you can of it. But pretending that

878
00:50:21,493 --> 00:50:24,653
Speaker 3: a hunter gatherer lifestyle is better than living in New

879
00:50:24,733 --> 00:50:27,493
Speaker 3: Zealand today or you have to be almost bonkers to

880
00:50:27,573 --> 00:50:30,413
Speaker 3: believe that. And it's a bizarre form of what Pinker

881
00:50:30,493 --> 00:50:36,053
Speaker 3: called this romanticism, this utopian idealized romanticism that he called

882
00:50:36,093 --> 00:50:40,573
Speaker 3: the noble savage myths, And he's right, he's right. I mean,

883
00:50:40,653 --> 00:50:43,933
Speaker 3: let's just give everyone an honest The more intermarriage the better,

884
00:50:44,093 --> 00:50:47,453
Speaker 3: the more you know, nobody thinks about. I mean, race

885
00:50:47,573 --> 00:50:51,693
Speaker 3: is not really a defensible scientific concept because there's there's

886
00:50:51,773 --> 00:50:55,973
Speaker 3: you know, there's almost no genetic differentiation amongst humans. I

887
00:50:55,973 --> 00:51:00,773
Speaker 3: think chimpanzees have massively more than we do. So to

888
00:51:00,853 --> 00:51:03,413
Speaker 3: the extent we even talk about race, it's not really scientific.

889
00:51:03,453 --> 00:51:05,053
Speaker 3: But everyone sort of knows what you mean in a

890
00:51:05,533 --> 00:51:07,813
Speaker 3: rough and ready sense. Well, we shouldn't be thinking those terms.

891
00:51:08,453 --> 00:51:10,213
Speaker 3: You know, we should be just going out and having

892
00:51:10,213 --> 00:51:12,573
Speaker 3: a beer and playing golf. And you know, whoever does

893
00:51:12,573 --> 00:51:15,493
Speaker 3: the job best gets the job because you know, you

894
00:51:15,653 --> 00:51:18,213
Speaker 3: tax people and that money goes to people at the bottom.

895
00:51:18,293 --> 00:51:21,613
Speaker 3: And you know, merit, merit is only defensible to the

896
00:51:21,653 --> 00:51:24,973
Speaker 3: extent that it delivers better outcomes, which it should when

897
00:51:25,013 --> 00:51:28,973
Speaker 3: better when better qualified people have jobs. So I don't

898
00:51:28,973 --> 00:51:31,973
Speaker 3: really I don't like the modern trend. I think Trump

899
00:51:32,053 --> 00:51:34,133
Speaker 3: is doing a good job in the US of fighting

900
00:51:34,173 --> 00:51:37,293
Speaker 3: back against it and having some wins, and so I

901
00:51:37,413 --> 00:51:40,573
Speaker 3: like that, and all the people who don't like that

902
00:51:41,853 --> 00:51:45,893
Speaker 3: can't articulate what they don't like about it openly right,

903
00:51:45,933 --> 00:51:47,573
Speaker 3: because it's sort of laughable.

904
00:51:48,053 --> 00:51:50,613
Speaker 2: Look, let me let me because you've let me down

905
00:51:50,613 --> 00:51:53,293
Speaker 2: this path again, let me go back. And I suspect

906
00:51:53,853 --> 00:51:56,413
Speaker 2: I noticed at the beginning that you went too keen

907
00:51:56,493 --> 00:51:58,973
Speaker 2: to mention Danny Linden. But I'm going to ask you

908
00:51:59,013 --> 00:52:02,133
Speaker 2: this anyway. For those who don't know, this is a

909
00:52:02,213 --> 00:52:08,733
Speaker 2: lecture who berated students for Indigenous legal history walkout and

910
00:52:09,373 --> 00:52:11,893
Speaker 2: we well, I don't know how many people have actually

911
00:52:11,893 --> 00:52:16,053
Speaker 2: heard the tape I did. It was via the Australian newspaper,

912
00:52:16,693 --> 00:52:21,893
Speaker 2: and she threatened students. She threatened students, WA's what you

913
00:52:22,013 --> 00:52:24,733
Speaker 2: say and what you do if you want to do

914
00:52:24,853 --> 00:52:28,213
Speaker 2: well in a law degree. I'll remember or I remember

915
00:52:28,333 --> 00:52:32,013
Speaker 2: things she said, I remember your faces, those who left,

916
00:52:32,093 --> 00:52:36,453
Speaker 2: and she got quite aggressive. Now it turns out and

917
00:52:36,493 --> 00:52:40,133
Speaker 2: I looked at her picture with a blank, blank mind,

918
00:52:40,773 --> 00:52:44,973
Speaker 2: blank brain, and some would say that's permanent, and I thought, no,

919
00:52:45,413 --> 00:52:52,813
Speaker 2: what is her problem? She's white, she's successful. Why is

920
00:52:52,893 --> 00:52:56,893
Speaker 2: she behaving in this absurd manner? Well, it turns out

921
00:52:56,973 --> 00:53:00,493
Speaker 2: that she has a bit, i'd say, a drop of

922
00:53:00,533 --> 00:53:04,693
Speaker 2: aboriginal blood in her. Who knows, But she doesn't look

923
00:53:04,733 --> 00:53:09,573
Speaker 2: anything like an aborigine, and her att I think is

924
00:53:11,733 --> 00:53:16,533
Speaker 2: her attitude is a reflection on what has gone before,

925
00:53:17,413 --> 00:53:20,213
Speaker 2: in the words of the Vice President of the United

926
00:53:20,253 --> 00:53:25,093
Speaker 2: States up until the election, what has gone before, whatever

927
00:53:25,133 --> 00:53:29,013
Speaker 2: got rammed into her head came from somewhere, but that's

928
00:53:29,053 --> 00:53:30,973
Speaker 2: what's led her down this particular path.

929
00:53:31,533 --> 00:53:34,933
Speaker 3: So a lot of people don't understand US First Amendment

930
00:53:35,053 --> 00:53:37,533
Speaker 3: law free speech. I think I'm the biggest proponent of

931
00:53:37,573 --> 00:53:42,893
Speaker 3: free speech in an antipody in university. But here's the thing.

932
00:53:43,253 --> 00:53:46,093
Speaker 3: If you worked at McDonald's and you started taking a

933
00:53:46,133 --> 00:53:49,053
Speaker 3: lunch break from job, from your shift with big signs

934
00:53:49,053 --> 00:53:52,213
Speaker 3: out front that said I'm a vegetarian, don't eat here,

935
00:53:53,573 --> 00:53:56,533
Speaker 3: you would be fired. And you'll be rightfully fired, because

936
00:53:57,133 --> 00:54:00,493
Speaker 3: the one thing, your free speech ends at the employer's door,

937
00:54:01,053 --> 00:54:03,533
Speaker 3: and there's certain limits that they can rightfully impose on

938
00:54:03,573 --> 00:54:06,693
Speaker 3: you once you decide to take the job. And so

939
00:54:07,093 --> 00:54:11,373
Speaker 3: I have in print I said that Australian universities as

940
00:54:11,413 --> 00:54:15,373
Speaker 3: a whole would be better run by moderately numerus year

941
00:54:15,413 --> 00:54:18,893
Speaker 3: eleven students, and I think that's true. But the one

942
00:54:18,933 --> 00:54:22,133
Speaker 3: thing I have never done, because I understand American I

943
00:54:22,253 --> 00:54:26,373
Speaker 3: understand free SPEECHMS. I have never directly criticized my employer,

944
00:54:26,413 --> 00:54:28,373
Speaker 3: who has actually let me say whatever I want. I

945
00:54:28,373 --> 00:54:31,213
Speaker 3: don't know why, because no other conservative gets to. So

946
00:54:31,253 --> 00:54:33,333
Speaker 3: the one thing I won't do is the sort of

947
00:54:33,493 --> 00:54:35,533
Speaker 3: I'm going to take a break from McDonald's now and

948
00:54:36,093 --> 00:54:39,773
Speaker 3: run down the people who've employed me in general terms

949
00:54:41,293 --> 00:54:46,373
Speaker 3: outside of specifically talking about my own employer. Universities have

950
00:54:46,413 --> 00:54:51,373
Speaker 3: gone crazy. They have gone absolutely crazy, and we know

951
00:54:52,613 --> 00:54:55,893
Speaker 3: from the data, again from the political donation data in

952
00:54:55,933 --> 00:54:59,813
Speaker 3: the US, somebody looked trolled some guy at Notre Dame

953
00:54:59,893 --> 00:55:02,453
Speaker 3: trolled through. I think it was from twenty eighteen to

954
00:55:02,493 --> 00:55:05,333
Speaker 3: twenty twenty three, but I might have that wrong. Looked

955
00:55:05,373 --> 00:55:09,053
Speaker 3: at every person working in the US loss to see

956
00:55:09,093 --> 00:55:10,813
Speaker 3: if they gave money, and if so, was it to

957
00:55:10,853 --> 00:55:14,173
Speaker 3: the Democrats of the Republicans? And I think the ratio

958
00:55:14,373 --> 00:55:18,173
Speaker 3: was thirty six to one, thirty six to one. And

959
00:55:18,253 --> 00:55:22,933
Speaker 3: so it's very hard for people who who have non

960
00:55:23,173 --> 00:55:27,973
Speaker 3: progressive lefty views to get jobs, especially in some departments.

961
00:55:28,013 --> 00:55:30,453
Speaker 3: I mean, law schools aren't the worst. There would be

962
00:55:30,493 --> 00:55:33,573
Speaker 3: no there would be no National Party voters on betting

963
00:55:33,653 --> 00:55:38,733
Speaker 3: in any New Zealand university Mawori Department would I'd be

964
00:55:38,893 --> 00:55:43,333
Speaker 3: very surprised. So that's a problem. And so these sort

965
00:55:43,373 --> 00:55:46,453
Speaker 3: of views are all over the place. And I agree

966
00:55:46,533 --> 00:55:50,293
Speaker 3: with you in general terms that it's a bit odd

967
00:55:50,373 --> 00:55:56,973
Speaker 3: when somebody has a ancestry that's you know, some small

968
00:55:57,013 --> 00:56:02,053
Speaker 3: percentage acts and some large percentage y and they you know,

969
00:56:02,133 --> 00:56:06,413
Speaker 3: they feel that they associate themselves with the acts. I mean,

970
00:56:06,453 --> 00:56:09,813
Speaker 3: there are cases in the US of of people claiming

971
00:56:09,893 --> 00:56:12,773
Speaker 3: to be black who have no black they have no

972
00:56:12,893 --> 00:56:18,093
Speaker 3: black ancestry. Or Elizabeth Warren, you know, she got her

973
00:56:18,133 --> 00:56:21,293
Speaker 3: first job at Harvard by claiming to be Cherokee Indian,

974
00:56:22,173 --> 00:56:24,773
Speaker 3: and it turned out that wasn't true. And now she's

975
00:56:24,813 --> 00:56:28,253
Speaker 3: a senator, right and everyone knew that with the credentials

976
00:56:28,293 --> 00:56:30,733
Speaker 3: she brought to the table. The only reason that Harvard

977
00:56:30,813 --> 00:56:33,413
Speaker 3: hied her, the only reason is because they thought they

978
00:56:33,413 --> 00:56:36,373
Speaker 3: could tick that she was a Native Indian and you know,

979
00:56:36,453 --> 00:56:39,013
Speaker 3: she pretends that, Well, you know, I got no advantage

980
00:56:39,013 --> 00:56:42,053
Speaker 3: from this. It turned out that if you went onto

981
00:56:42,053 --> 00:56:45,453
Speaker 3: the street and picked a random white person, that person

982
00:56:45,533 --> 00:56:50,053
Speaker 3: had more Native Indian blood than Elizabeth Warren. You know,

983
00:56:50,093 --> 00:56:52,013
Speaker 3: it was like one to one thousands. But she was

984
00:56:52,053 --> 00:56:59,013
Speaker 3: even lower than the average sort of Anglo American. So

985
00:56:59,853 --> 00:57:02,973
Speaker 3: of course there are all sorts of sort of incentives

986
00:57:02,973 --> 00:57:06,613
Speaker 3: for people in practical terms. And then combined that with

987
00:57:06,733 --> 00:57:11,413
Speaker 3: having been told at school your whole life that you know,

988
00:57:12,053 --> 00:57:14,893
Speaker 3: Captain Cook invaded and Western culture is a bad thing.

989
00:57:14,973 --> 00:57:17,653
Speaker 3: And you know, if you look at the hunter gatherer

990
00:57:17,733 --> 00:57:21,293
Speaker 3: people who are here before, what a wonderful, idyllic, utopian life.

991
00:57:21,333 --> 00:57:24,013
Speaker 3: See how do It's just all garbage. So you can't

992
00:57:24,013 --> 00:57:26,453
Speaker 3: really blame people who get force fed this. It's like

993
00:57:27,893 --> 00:57:30,453
Speaker 3: I don't blame our kids today. I blame my generation.

994
00:57:30,613 --> 00:57:34,613
Speaker 3: We're the ones who let the education system collapse. We're

995
00:57:34,653 --> 00:57:39,613
Speaker 3: the ones who let you know, Australia's teaching results are

996
00:57:39,613 --> 00:57:43,173
Speaker 3: below Kazakhstan and getting worse. They didn't do that. We

997
00:57:43,213 --> 00:57:45,653
Speaker 3: did that. We didn't. We got to go to good schools.

998
00:57:45,693 --> 00:57:48,093
Speaker 3: I went to state schools my whole life, where in

999
00:57:48,133 --> 00:57:51,413
Speaker 3: grade five I knew more grammar with gerums and participles

1000
00:57:51,453 --> 00:57:54,173
Speaker 3: were than than you know, I can remember today and

1001
00:57:54,373 --> 00:57:56,893
Speaker 3: I'm pretty good with grammar. But I you know, so,

1002
00:57:56,893 --> 00:58:00,453
Speaker 3: so we didn't. They didn't do that. We took all

1003
00:58:00,493 --> 00:58:02,773
Speaker 3: the fun out of life for them. We killed humor.

1004
00:58:02,853 --> 00:58:05,733
Speaker 3: We we did all these things. We made it impossible

1005
00:58:05,773 --> 00:58:09,813
Speaker 3: for kids to buy a house because of immigration, because

1006
00:58:09,813 --> 00:58:10,373
Speaker 3: of our sid and.

1007
00:58:11,253 --> 00:58:15,733
Speaker 2: On did we through? Who are you blaming?

1008
00:58:15,773 --> 00:58:20,173
Speaker 3: Actually, because I'm blaming our generation people who voted.

1009
00:58:21,133 --> 00:58:23,853
Speaker 2: Well, you see, I still won't. I still can't quite

1010
00:58:23,933 --> 00:58:28,133
Speaker 2: grasp that, even though I even though I basically agree

1011
00:58:28,133 --> 00:58:33,253
Speaker 2: with you. But you take Australia, take New Zealand, people

1012
00:58:33,413 --> 00:58:37,293
Speaker 2: kept coming no matter who was making up the government,

1013
00:58:37,613 --> 00:58:40,173
Speaker 2: whether it was letters or so called or so called

1014
00:58:40,293 --> 00:58:42,053
Speaker 2: center right, they just.

1015
00:58:42,493 --> 00:58:45,013
Speaker 3: Not a party political criticism by me, It was a

1016
00:58:45,053 --> 00:58:48,613
Speaker 3: criticism of our political class and the sort of elits

1017
00:58:48,613 --> 00:58:51,813
Speaker 3: who've made the decisions over the last thirty or forty years.

1018
00:58:51,853 --> 00:58:55,013
Speaker 3: They've they've been terrible, and you know, it's a bit

1019
00:58:55,133 --> 00:58:58,013
Speaker 3: like COVID. They can't ever admit they made a mistake

1020
00:58:58,133 --> 00:59:01,693
Speaker 3: because well, I don't know how they'd sleep at night

1021
00:59:02,133 --> 00:59:05,533
Speaker 3: and b they'd be destroyed. So they just have to

1022
00:59:05,573 --> 00:59:10,453
Speaker 3: pretend that that letting in you know, massive numbers is

1023
00:59:10,493 --> 00:59:12,613
Speaker 3: a good idea, and they used to pretend it was

1024
00:59:12,653 --> 00:59:17,373
Speaker 3: economically beneficial, right, you up gross domestic product, But even

1025
00:59:17,413 --> 00:59:20,333
Speaker 3: but lots of recent economic studies have shown unless you're

1026
00:59:20,733 --> 00:59:23,493
Speaker 3: looking at highly skilled immigrants and then there is an

1027
00:59:23,493 --> 00:59:27,773
Speaker 3: economic payoff for sure, but family reunification and low skilled

1028
00:59:29,413 --> 00:59:33,053
Speaker 3: sort of people coming in and claiming refugee status all

1029
00:59:33,093 --> 00:59:35,493
Speaker 3: that they some of those people are just in a

1030
00:59:35,573 --> 00:59:38,813
Speaker 3: massive drag on the economy. And we now have you know,

1031
00:59:39,053 --> 00:59:43,733
Speaker 3: third generation immigrant welfare families. This is none of this

1032
00:59:43,813 --> 00:59:47,253
Speaker 3: is good for the local people. And again, if your

1033
00:59:47,373 --> 00:59:50,813
Speaker 3: argument is, well, if we let in tons of incredibly

1034
00:59:50,893 --> 00:59:53,653
Speaker 3: poor third world people will drive down wages, which is

1035
00:59:53,693 --> 00:59:57,813
Speaker 3: what a lot of Rockefeller Republican Chamber of Commerce types

1036
00:59:57,853 --> 01:00:00,493
Speaker 3: really want. You know, you can get a cheaper cleaning lady,

1037
01:00:01,013 --> 01:00:03,813
Speaker 3: Well that's not a very good argument. I mean, you said,

1038
01:00:03,973 --> 01:00:05,733
Speaker 3: I don't mind paying more, and I think that's the

1039
01:00:05,773 --> 01:00:09,133
Speaker 3: sort of Trump appeal he represents people now at the

1040
01:00:09,133 --> 01:00:11,693
Speaker 3: bottom end. And what I think one of the things

1041
01:00:11,773 --> 01:00:15,133
Speaker 3: is that the political spectrum around the democratic world has

1042
01:00:15,133 --> 01:00:20,693
Speaker 3: sort of flipped and conservative parties basically get the working

1043
01:00:20,693 --> 01:00:24,773
Speaker 3: class vote now. And that's because left wing parties used

1044
01:00:24,773 --> 01:00:29,693
Speaker 3: to be Dennis Healey type redistribution of wealth parties. But

1045
01:00:29,733 --> 01:00:32,573
Speaker 3: they weren't woke, and they weren't progressive on social issues,

1046
01:00:33,013 --> 01:00:35,293
Speaker 3: and they didn't you know, have a problem with humor.

1047
01:00:35,853 --> 01:00:38,693
Speaker 3: And now basically, left wing parties have become the party

1048
01:00:38,733 --> 01:00:43,213
Speaker 3: of human rights barristers who see international law as preferable

1049
01:00:43,253 --> 01:00:50,053
Speaker 3: to domestic law, who see something tawdry. Yeah, well, if

1050
01:00:50,093 --> 01:00:52,933
Speaker 3: they think there's something tawdry about a plumber having the

1051
01:00:52,973 --> 01:00:55,493
Speaker 3: same say in public affairs as they get because you know,

1052
01:00:55,533 --> 01:00:59,053
Speaker 3: they've got three degrees, and it's you know, it's very distasteful.

1053
01:00:59,053 --> 01:01:01,333
Speaker 3: I've never liked it. I've always written about it. But

1054
01:01:01,773 --> 01:01:04,173
Speaker 3: the more that left wing parties become the party of

1055
01:01:04,213 --> 01:01:09,493
Speaker 3: the inner city progressive elites, the more the conservative parties

1056
01:01:09,493 --> 01:01:12,173
Speaker 3: are just representing the sort of average working percent and

1057
01:01:12,213 --> 01:01:15,853
Speaker 3: that's a majority, yep. And that's what Trump's figured out.

1058
01:01:15,933 --> 01:01:18,613
Speaker 3: I mean, he had not a single endorsement from any

1059
01:01:18,653 --> 01:01:21,733
Speaker 3: publication I think, except for the New York Post. Even

1060
01:01:21,733 --> 01:01:25,613
Speaker 3: the Wall Street Journal probably didn't support him. And it

1061
01:01:25,653 --> 01:01:28,933
Speaker 3: didn't matter. He got incredibly negative cover because people have

1062
01:01:29,093 --> 01:01:33,293
Speaker 3: realized that the legacy media has become a sort of

1063
01:01:34,213 --> 01:01:37,773
Speaker 3: left wing talking shop. It's said, and it's sad, it's sad,

1064
01:01:37,773 --> 01:01:39,413
Speaker 3: but you you don't get a fair deal.

1065
01:01:39,493 --> 01:01:42,973
Speaker 2: By the way, have I noticed a swing to the lift, Well, yeah,

1066
01:01:43,053 --> 01:01:45,533
Speaker 2: a swing to the lift on the part of the Australian.

1067
01:01:46,093 --> 01:01:49,573
Speaker 3: I think so, but again they occasionally published me I

1068
01:01:49,573 --> 01:01:51,413
Speaker 3: should be a little careful. I think if you go

1069
01:01:51,453 --> 01:01:57,053
Speaker 3: about ten or twelve thirteen years it was yes, I

1070
01:01:57,053 --> 01:02:00,093
Speaker 3: think that's true. And where all of us are petrified.

1071
01:02:00,093 --> 01:02:02,613
Speaker 3: What's going to happen when Rupert Murdoch goes because his

1072
01:02:02,733 --> 01:02:05,373
Speaker 3: kids one of them's okay and the other ones are

1073
01:02:05,373 --> 01:02:07,813
Speaker 3: pretty well, aren't they? And you know, I mean, it's

1074
01:02:07,813 --> 01:02:10,933
Speaker 3: a very prop offitable business and maybe that will override

1075
01:02:10,973 --> 01:02:15,413
Speaker 3: their desire. But the more the more the Murdoch empire

1076
01:02:16,173 --> 01:02:19,573
Speaker 3: tried to turn itself into a New York Times outlet,

1077
01:02:20,013 --> 01:02:23,093
Speaker 3: readers and the watchers will go I think I know

1078
01:02:23,253 --> 01:02:26,493
Speaker 3: mister Murdoch was trying to run a case and where

1079
01:02:26,613 --> 01:02:29,773
Speaker 3: was it Delaware or somewhere to get the least wokes

1080
01:02:29,893 --> 01:02:32,853
Speaker 3: under control? Vump I think that failed, didn't it?

1081
01:02:33,573 --> 01:02:37,093
Speaker 2: I'm not sure that. Let me, as we head to

1082
01:02:37,133 --> 01:02:40,813
Speaker 2: the exit door, let me make mention of two things

1083
01:02:41,173 --> 01:02:43,573
Speaker 2: and you can trick them as short as you want.

1084
01:02:44,453 --> 01:02:47,973
Speaker 2: Under the heading of married law expert says Ta Kanga,

1085
01:02:47,973 --> 01:02:54,293
Speaker 2: progress in the judicial system is unstoppable. Mamari Stephens says

1086
01:02:54,333 --> 01:02:57,173
Speaker 2: it'll take two decades for the two systems to fuse

1087
01:02:57,253 --> 01:03:02,213
Speaker 2: together into a at a rower, New Zealand law, Mary

1088
01:03:02,293 --> 01:03:05,853
Speaker 2: law and ta Kanga expert Mamari Stephens says judges are

1089
01:03:05,933 --> 01:03:12,093
Speaker 2: looking for application to presume it's Toura tic kanya, Tura

1090
01:03:12,213 --> 01:03:16,573
Speaker 2: ti kanya or Mary law in cases before them. Judges

1091
01:03:16,653 --> 01:03:21,453
Speaker 2: are looking at application of this. That trend is set

1092
01:03:21,493 --> 01:03:24,653
Speaker 2: together momentum from next year twenty twenty five, when the

1093
01:03:24,733 --> 01:03:27,693
Speaker 2: general principles and practices of Ti kung and Mary become

1094
01:03:28,733 --> 01:03:35,293
Speaker 2: a compulsory subject in law studies. The expert says, like

1095
01:03:35,413 --> 01:03:37,813
Speaker 2: the common law, it will take decades for the two

1096
01:03:37,853 --> 01:03:41,693
Speaker 2: systems to fuse together into ayatiro and New Zealand law.

1097
01:03:41,893 --> 01:03:45,973
Speaker 2: But that's how it should be. The response I'm looking

1098
01:03:46,413 --> 01:03:50,413
Speaker 2: for is what will that mean for the law?

1099
01:03:52,613 --> 01:03:54,893
Speaker 3: Well, if you're asking for a prediction, she might be

1100
01:03:55,013 --> 01:03:58,173
Speaker 3: right because basically right wing parties are gutless. I mean

1101
01:03:58,213 --> 01:04:01,093
Speaker 3: the National Party should have been passing legislation to deal

1102
01:04:01,173 --> 01:04:04,453
Speaker 3: with this, because you're the judges are going down this road.

1103
01:04:04,493 --> 01:04:07,573
Speaker 3: They've been to law schools. They buy into this sort

1104
01:04:07,613 --> 01:04:11,733
Speaker 3: of what I would call mythology. I don't again, I

1105
01:04:11,733 --> 01:04:14,133
Speaker 3: don't even know what it means to say t kanga

1106
01:04:14,213 --> 01:04:17,133
Speaker 3: mawori that you take a few amorphous concepts sort of

1107
01:04:17,173 --> 01:04:22,973
Speaker 3: like I don't know, respect that sort of lingers after

1108
01:04:23,053 --> 01:04:26,493
Speaker 3: you die, and you sort of you say that Peter

1109
01:04:26,573 --> 01:04:29,813
Speaker 3: Ellis should have been you know, pardoned, but you didn't

1110
01:04:29,813 --> 01:04:32,293
Speaker 3: need any of that. And anyway, there's so little content

1111
01:04:32,413 --> 01:04:35,573
Speaker 3: to it that you're not really sure what's constraining. And

1112
01:04:35,693 --> 01:04:38,613
Speaker 3: the more law is open ended, and the more law

1113
01:04:38,693 --> 01:04:41,893
Speaker 3: is unconstraining, the more that decisions are made at the

1114
01:04:41,893 --> 01:04:45,173
Speaker 3: point of application by unelected judges. You can see why

1115
01:04:45,253 --> 01:04:48,093
Speaker 3: judges like this because they're going to be making the calls.

1116
01:04:48,533 --> 01:04:51,053
Speaker 3: And that just means that all that matters when you

1117
01:04:51,093 --> 01:04:53,933
Speaker 3: appoint a judge is whether he or she is, you know,

1118
01:04:53,973 --> 01:04:56,493
Speaker 3: what are their political views. This is the American approach.

1119
01:04:57,413 --> 01:05:01,053
Speaker 3: And one of the things with unconstrained sort of legal materials,

1120
01:05:01,933 --> 01:05:03,933
Speaker 3: which I would say is true of bills of rights,

1121
01:05:03,933 --> 01:05:08,653
Speaker 3: but even more true of just whatever t kanga mawori is,

1122
01:05:08,653 --> 01:05:11,733
Speaker 3: is that everything becomes political at the point of applification.

1123
01:05:12,533 --> 01:05:15,373
Speaker 3: And the Americans have two hundred plus years of dealing

1124
01:05:15,413 --> 01:05:19,813
Speaker 3: with this, and they know they have an openly political

1125
01:05:19,813 --> 01:05:24,653
Speaker 3: appointments process, and you know, American in the in the

1126
01:05:24,693 --> 01:05:27,493
Speaker 3: Westminster world, the British world. We talk about the judges

1127
01:05:27,773 --> 01:05:29,653
Speaker 3: when they when they give a decision, we talk about

1128
01:05:29,653 --> 01:05:33,733
Speaker 3: their judgment. The Americans talk about their opinion because they

1129
01:05:33,773 --> 01:05:36,533
Speaker 3: see everything as just an opinion, which is true. I think.

1130
01:05:36,573 --> 01:05:40,133
Speaker 3: I think the American terminology judgment connotes that they've set

1131
01:05:40,173 --> 01:05:43,373
Speaker 3: down and they've had this well considered thing, completely divorced

1132
01:05:43,413 --> 01:05:47,213
Speaker 3: from any subjective biases, and it's just garbage. You know,

1133
01:05:47,293 --> 01:05:51,373
Speaker 3: your top court of late is imposing sort of progressive

1134
01:05:51,413 --> 01:05:54,253
Speaker 3: shiblis on the rest of us. Well, there's an easy

1135
01:05:54,293 --> 01:05:55,973
Speaker 3: way to deal with that. In New Zealand, which has

1136
01:05:55,973 --> 01:05:59,413
Speaker 3: no written constitution, just pass a few statutes and lux

1137
01:05:59,493 --> 01:06:01,053
Speaker 3: and just doesn't have it in them. I mean, I

1138
01:06:01,973 --> 01:06:06,813
Speaker 3: if I were New Zealand first or act, I would

1139
01:06:06,813 --> 01:06:12,333
Speaker 3: be not happy with the lack of courage. But I suppose.

1140
01:06:12,693 --> 01:06:17,173
Speaker 2: If as if, as time goes by over the next

1141
01:06:17,173 --> 01:06:21,693
Speaker 2: twelve months or so, and there was growing dissatisfaction with

1142
01:06:21,853 --> 01:06:26,333
Speaker 2: National which of those two parties the two other parties,

1143
01:06:26,773 --> 01:06:28,933
Speaker 2: would you think which one of them would be the

1144
01:06:29,053 --> 01:06:29,773
Speaker 2: most effective.

1145
01:06:30,733 --> 01:06:33,973
Speaker 3: I don't know. I mean, I mean Winston Peters. When

1146
01:06:33,973 --> 01:06:35,973
Speaker 3: he's good, he's good, and when he's bad he's terrible.

1147
01:06:36,013 --> 01:06:38,773
Speaker 3: He should have never put into urduring in in my view,

1148
01:06:38,853 --> 01:06:40,013
Speaker 3: but that was spited.

1149
01:06:40,813 --> 01:06:43,253
Speaker 2: Well, he got admit that because he'd never be able

1150
01:06:43,293 --> 01:06:46,053
Speaker 2: to sleep and he'd have to hide his head in shame.

1151
01:06:46,493 --> 01:06:49,173
Speaker 3: So yes, yes he would. He would have to do that,

1152
01:06:49,213 --> 01:06:51,253
Speaker 3: and that caused a lot of problems, and you know,

1153
01:06:51,333 --> 01:06:56,613
Speaker 3: partly it was National Party incompetence, but yes, I agree

1154
01:06:56,653 --> 01:06:59,333
Speaker 3: with that. Well, you know, I think they both served

1155
01:06:59,373 --> 01:07:02,573
Speaker 3: different markets. And given you have the terrible m MP

1156
01:07:03,373 --> 01:07:05,573
Speaker 3: voting system, as long as they both get in, they

1157
01:07:05,773 --> 01:07:07,733
Speaker 3: those two parties should be able to work together on

1158
01:07:08,373 --> 01:07:12,173
Speaker 3: at least some issues many. Probably the problem for the

1159
01:07:12,253 --> 01:07:17,853
Speaker 3: National Party is they represent a sort of leftover wealthy

1160
01:07:17,933 --> 01:07:21,093
Speaker 3: types don't want to pick fights or a bit cowardly.

1161
01:07:21,173 --> 01:07:23,693
Speaker 3: They don't they can put their kids into private schools.

1162
01:07:23,693 --> 01:07:26,773
Speaker 3: They don't care about culture issues because they you know,

1163
01:07:26,813 --> 01:07:30,773
Speaker 3: they stable two parent families and they can talk to

1164
01:07:30,813 --> 01:07:33,693
Speaker 3: the kids at home, and you know, it's not good

1165
01:07:33,733 --> 01:07:36,413
Speaker 3: for the rest of us down the road. And then

1166
01:07:36,453 --> 01:07:39,853
Speaker 3: when you know, a sort of maverick outlawer comes in

1167
01:07:39,933 --> 01:07:42,653
Speaker 3: and wins in the US, they're more they're more horrified

1168
01:07:42,693 --> 01:07:45,933
Speaker 3: by Trump than they are by the complete devastation that

1169
01:07:46,013 --> 01:07:49,373
Speaker 3: was brought on by Biden or just Sender or Adurn,

1170
01:07:49,813 --> 01:07:52,613
Speaker 3: you know, because Trump doesn't talk like an educated person.

1171
01:07:52,613 --> 01:07:56,253
Speaker 3: He's quite smart, but he does, you know. He he's

1172
01:07:56,333 --> 01:07:59,773
Speaker 3: somebody they can't And one of the things I yeah,

1173
01:07:59,773 --> 01:08:02,493
Speaker 3: one of the things I like about Trump is everything

1174
01:08:02,533 --> 01:08:04,853
Speaker 3: he's doing. He said he was going to do before

1175
01:08:04,893 --> 01:08:06,853
Speaker 3: the election. He said he was going to bring in terrorists,

1176
01:08:06,893 --> 01:08:09,653
Speaker 3: he said he was going to fight the every single

1177
01:08:09,653 --> 01:08:13,013
Speaker 3: thing he did, he's promised. Now. I don't know about you,

1178
01:08:13,133 --> 01:08:15,693
Speaker 3: but for me, as a Canadian who's lived in Britain

1179
01:08:15,813 --> 01:08:19,333
Speaker 3: and here in New Zealand, right of center political parties

1180
01:08:19,573 --> 01:08:23,173
Speaker 3: continually promise things and then they never deliver. And so

1181
01:08:23,333 --> 01:08:27,013
Speaker 3: Trump is this refreshing breath of fresh air where I

1182
01:08:27,013 --> 01:08:29,493
Speaker 3: said I'm gonna do this, and I'm doing it and

1183
01:08:29,533 --> 01:08:31,213
Speaker 3: if you don't like it, don't vote for me. Is

1184
01:08:31,213 --> 01:08:35,573
Speaker 3: effectively the motto. We're used to this sort of wink wink,

1185
01:08:35,693 --> 01:08:38,093
Speaker 3: nudge nudge. Yes, we'll say a few things, we're going

1186
01:08:38,133 --> 01:08:42,413
Speaker 3: to sort out, you know, the the sort of group

1187
01:08:42,493 --> 01:08:44,813
Speaker 3: identity politics stuff, and then they get in and well,

1188
01:08:44,973 --> 01:08:47,293
Speaker 3: you know that's a bit hard. We don't want to

1189
01:08:47,373 --> 01:08:49,413
Speaker 3: we don't want to deal with a few radicals who

1190
01:08:49,493 --> 01:08:55,093
Speaker 3: might have aggressive protest movements or something. You know, it's

1191
01:08:55,093 --> 01:08:57,813
Speaker 3: just it's it's it's it's just a weakness. And the

1192
01:08:57,893 --> 01:09:00,453
Speaker 3: left never seems to be the left side of politics

1193
01:09:00,213 --> 01:09:02,653
Speaker 3: is less weak. You know, in a way I sort

1194
01:09:02,653 --> 01:09:05,093
Speaker 3: of admired them. They win, and then they start doing.

1195
01:09:04,893 --> 01:09:08,893
Speaker 2: Stuff, and they reward themselves rather well for too.

1196
01:09:09,093 --> 01:09:12,093
Speaker 3: Especially definitely they definitely do that. Yeah.

1197
01:09:12,133 --> 01:09:16,053
Speaker 2: So last point, and it doesn't have to be long.

1198
01:09:16,693 --> 01:09:21,693
Speaker 2: The chief irony of Chief Justice John Roberts tenure at

1199
01:09:21,693 --> 01:09:25,493
Speaker 2: the Supreme Court is that the man so doggedly devoted

1200
01:09:25,533 --> 01:09:29,173
Speaker 2: to defending the judiciary has done so much to undermine it.

1201
01:09:29,853 --> 01:09:34,213
Speaker 2: In doing so, he has threatened not only the Court's legitimacy,

1202
01:09:34,573 --> 01:09:37,293
Speaker 2: but the republic itself. Comment.

1203
01:09:39,573 --> 01:09:42,293
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean it started with the Obamacare case, the

1204
01:09:42,613 --> 01:09:46,773
Speaker 3: Affordable Care Act, where he just changed it was going

1205
01:09:46,853 --> 01:09:49,773
Speaker 3: to lose on a proper understanding of the Constitution on

1206
01:09:49,893 --> 01:09:52,813
Speaker 3: federalism grounds, so he just called it a tax, even

1207
01:09:52,893 --> 01:09:55,893
Speaker 3: though neither lawyer had argued it was at tax, and

1208
01:09:55,933 --> 01:09:59,173
Speaker 3: in fact Obama had said it wasn't a tax because

1209
01:09:59,213 --> 01:10:01,453
Speaker 3: he didn't want the judges to be seen as meddling

1210
01:10:01,533 --> 01:10:05,133
Speaker 3: in you know, a big ticket political issue over how

1211
01:10:05,173 --> 01:10:11,333
Speaker 3: you deal with medicine and healthcare. And then you know

1212
01:10:11,373 --> 01:10:15,813
Speaker 3: he dissented in Daubs. That's the tasted over ruled road v. Wade.

1213
01:10:16,173 --> 01:10:19,333
Speaker 3: And he's always trying it seems like his judicial philosophy

1214
01:10:19,493 --> 01:10:24,213
Speaker 3: is what is the most politically popular position here, and

1215
01:10:24,253 --> 01:10:26,533
Speaker 3: he's very low. We don't want too many changes. But

1216
01:10:26,573 --> 01:10:30,013
Speaker 3: the problem is if you have a written constitution, I

1217
01:10:30,013 --> 01:10:31,853
Speaker 3: don't like them. But if you're going to have one,

1218
01:10:32,173 --> 01:10:35,853
Speaker 3: then the judge's job is to apply the rules. Now,

1219
01:10:36,733 --> 01:10:40,933
Speaker 3: I'm an originalist. You're constrained by what was intended by

1220
01:10:40,973 --> 01:10:45,493
Speaker 3: the people who passed the constitution, and if you don't

1221
01:10:45,613 --> 01:10:49,693
Speaker 3: like that, you amend the constitution. And by being so

1222
01:10:50,573 --> 01:10:57,373
Speaker 3: overtly political Roberts, he's made everyone angry and so unfortunately

1223
01:10:57,533 --> 01:10:59,773
Speaker 3: on a couple of cases he's gotten the woman Amy

1224
01:10:59,933 --> 01:11:03,613
Speaker 3: Barrett Counney to play along with him. We'll see what happens.

1225
01:11:03,613 --> 01:11:07,093
Speaker 3: The big issue right now are these nationwide injunctions by

1226
01:11:07,613 --> 01:11:09,973
Speaker 3: district court federal judges in the US. I think there's

1227
01:11:09,973 --> 01:11:12,853
Speaker 3: about seven hundred of them. And you know, the Democrats,

1228
01:11:12,853 --> 01:11:15,333
Speaker 3: having lost in voting booth are so do they look

1229
01:11:15,453 --> 01:11:20,933
Speaker 3: for favorable, they forum shop and they find a Democrat judge,

1230
01:11:20,973 --> 01:11:24,733
Speaker 3: and then the Democrat judge issues. So this is pretty

1231
01:11:24,773 --> 01:11:27,373
Speaker 3: low level. This is these are district court judges. They

1232
01:11:27,373 --> 01:11:30,373
Speaker 3: issued nationwide injunctions. These are pretty new. They didn't have

1233
01:11:30,453 --> 01:11:33,613
Speaker 3: them until about fifty or sixty years ago, so throughout

1234
01:11:33,613 --> 01:11:38,413
Speaker 3: most of US history. And there were more of these

1235
01:11:38,413 --> 01:11:41,573
Speaker 3: injunctions issues in the first you know, month and a

1236
01:11:41,613 --> 01:11:44,893
Speaker 3: half of Trump two than you saw going back to

1237
01:11:44,973 --> 01:11:49,133
Speaker 3: I think Kennedy. And so if you're going to play

1238
01:11:49,173 --> 01:11:51,413
Speaker 3: that kind of game, it's a very dangerous game to

1239
01:11:51,453 --> 01:11:56,933
Speaker 3: play because it's it's pretty overtly political. Now, the Supreme

1240
01:11:56,933 --> 01:11:58,853
Speaker 3: Court could have sorted that out. They had a five

1241
01:11:58,893 --> 01:12:01,653
Speaker 3: to four decision on a temporary injunction, can't remember the

1242
01:12:01,693 --> 01:12:05,053
Speaker 3: name of it, Missouri or something, and they just sort

1243
01:12:05,053 --> 01:12:08,093
Speaker 3: of sloughed it off. They said, we can only decide

1244
01:12:08,093 --> 01:12:11,013
Speaker 3: to later when it's you know, when it's not temporary anymore.

1245
01:12:11,453 --> 01:12:13,413
Speaker 3: They should have sorted it right then. I mean, it'd

1246
01:12:13,413 --> 01:12:15,733
Speaker 3: be quite easy just to say district court judges cannot

1247
01:12:15,773 --> 01:12:19,573
Speaker 3: issue national injunctions and it has to go to a

1248
01:12:19,613 --> 01:12:22,733
Speaker 3: circuit court of appeal or you know, they could even

1249
01:12:22,773 --> 01:12:26,973
Speaker 3: have the Supreme Court could say only weaken issue nationwide injunctions.

1250
01:12:26,973 --> 01:12:30,413
Speaker 3: That would be fine, because I can tell you what

1251
01:12:30,493 --> 01:12:32,413
Speaker 3: the Republicans will learn from this. They will learn to

1252
01:12:32,453 --> 01:12:35,093
Speaker 3: appoint a bunch of district court judges so that when

1253
01:12:35,133 --> 01:12:38,293
Speaker 3: the Democrats are next in, the judges block everything they

1254
01:12:38,333 --> 01:12:41,453
Speaker 3: try to do. And the normal rule is that the

1255
01:12:41,533 --> 01:12:44,453
Speaker 3: left does things aggressively and the right doesn't at first,

1256
01:12:44,453 --> 01:12:47,253
Speaker 3: and then the right does too. It's like the blocking

1257
01:12:47,293 --> 01:12:50,253
Speaker 3: and getting rid of the filibuster, and any any Republican

1258
01:12:50,293 --> 01:12:51,933
Speaker 3: with the brain is going to say, okay, well we'll

1259
01:12:51,973 --> 01:12:55,413
Speaker 3: do this too. You will get nothing through. And it's

1260
01:12:55,453 --> 01:12:58,333
Speaker 3: it's there's no democratic theory in the world that thinks

1261
01:12:58,333 --> 01:13:01,013
Speaker 3: it's a good idea to be able to look around

1262
01:13:01,013 --> 01:13:03,493
Speaker 3: at seven hundred odd judges and find one and they've

1263
01:13:03,493 --> 01:13:10,653
Speaker 3: all been appointed by Democrats to issue these Trump blocking injunctions.

1264
01:13:11,533 --> 01:13:13,493
Speaker 3: At the very least, you ought to have gone up

1265
01:13:13,573 --> 01:13:16,773
Speaker 3: and had a full panel of one of the Circuit

1266
01:13:16,773 --> 01:13:20,213
Speaker 3: Court of Appeals. But again, maybe even only the US

1267
01:13:20,213 --> 01:13:23,213
Speaker 3: Supreme Court should be able to enjoin the executive because

1268
01:13:23,213 --> 01:13:26,653
Speaker 3: if they don't have our Westminster system, they have they

1269
01:13:26,693 --> 01:13:30,413
Speaker 3: have an overt separation of power system right in the Constitution.

1270
01:13:30,613 --> 01:13:35,373
Speaker 3: The executive is the president, so you don't so the

1271
01:13:35,413 --> 01:13:39,413
Speaker 3: constitution overrides statutes. If the president wants to do something

1272
01:13:39,453 --> 01:13:43,093
Speaker 3: that's part of the executive power, he gets to do it.

1273
01:13:43,613 --> 01:13:45,933
Speaker 3: And so I I I'm waiting to see what the

1274
01:13:45,933 --> 01:13:48,493
Speaker 3: Supreme Court was. I think that Amy Conant Bearer will

1275
01:13:48,533 --> 01:13:52,533
Speaker 3: come back when it gets to be the full non

1276
01:13:52,613 --> 01:13:55,933
Speaker 3: temporary injunction. And if she comes back, then the amazing

1277
01:13:55,933 --> 01:13:58,973
Speaker 3: thing about Roberts is he might flip over to you know,

1278
01:13:59,013 --> 01:14:02,813
Speaker 3: he's he doesn't like being in the minority. I think

1279
01:14:02,853 --> 01:14:05,893
Speaker 3: he got pilloried a lot in Daubs. That's you know.

1280
01:14:05,933 --> 01:14:07,973
Speaker 3: I think that was the right decision, whatever you think

1281
01:14:07,973 --> 01:14:13,973
Speaker 3: about it. Abortion. Nothing in the US Constitution stopped state

1282
01:14:14,013 --> 01:14:17,493
Speaker 3: governments from legislating one way or another. And ironically, after

1283
01:14:17,573 --> 01:14:20,693
Speaker 3: all the scaremongering, it turned out it didn't cost Trump

1284
01:14:20,733 --> 01:14:23,653
Speaker 3: the election. And there are basically the same number of

1285
01:14:23,693 --> 01:14:26,773
Speaker 3: abortions in the US today that than there was before.

1286
01:14:27,173 --> 01:14:30,293
Speaker 3: Because if you live in California, the rules have loosened,

1287
01:14:30,333 --> 01:14:32,453
Speaker 3: and if you live in Mississippi, they've gotten a bit tighter.

1288
01:14:33,493 --> 01:14:35,333
Speaker 3: So if you're a woman in Mississippi, it's true you

1289
01:14:35,373 --> 01:14:38,053
Speaker 3: have to take get in the car and drive over

1290
01:14:38,093 --> 01:14:42,173
Speaker 3: state lines. But that's called democracy. You can't expect every

1291
01:14:42,213 --> 01:14:45,413
Speaker 3: policy to go your way. I'd like a few to

1292
01:14:45,413 --> 01:14:49,213
Speaker 3: go my way here in Australia, but not getting too

1293
01:14:49,253 --> 01:14:50,693
Speaker 3: much going our way right now?

1294
01:14:50,853 --> 01:14:52,053
Speaker 2: Where do you keep at it?

1295
01:14:53,013 --> 01:14:53,693
Speaker 3: All? Right? Thank you.

1296
01:14:54,653 --> 01:14:56,893
Speaker 2: I'll leave you with one thing to ponder. I'm looking

1297
01:14:56,893 --> 01:15:00,253
Speaker 2: at I'm looking at the back cover of the spine

1298
01:15:00,253 --> 01:15:06,173
Speaker 2: of a book on my shelf, Scalia. If Antonin Scalia

1299
01:15:06,573 --> 01:15:10,093
Speaker 2: was the Chief Justice of the Supreme Court, what a

1300
01:15:10,173 --> 01:15:12,413
Speaker 2: wonderfully different world it would be.

1301
01:15:13,453 --> 01:15:15,373
Speaker 3: That is true. But you know what I have moved.

1302
01:15:15,413 --> 01:15:18,093
Speaker 3: I've always liked Cilia, but I now think Clarence Thomas

1303
01:15:18,213 --> 01:15:19,733
Speaker 3: is even better.

1304
01:15:20,173 --> 01:15:22,893
Speaker 2: Well, guess what's next door to Scalia? Clarence.

1305
01:15:23,813 --> 01:15:26,173
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's a good that's a good autobiography he wrote

1306
01:15:26,173 --> 01:15:29,493
Speaker 3: about himself. You know what he made. He made a

1307
01:15:29,533 --> 01:15:32,613
Speaker 3: mistake at the front cover that many many people make

1308
01:15:33,053 --> 01:15:36,173
Speaker 3: where they he quotes that famous line from Robert Frost.

1309
01:15:36,173 --> 01:15:38,693
Speaker 3: Two roads diverged in the wood, and I took the

1310
01:15:38,733 --> 01:15:41,213
Speaker 3: one less traveled by, and that has made all the difference.

1311
01:15:41,773 --> 01:15:44,453
Speaker 3: And I used to think the same as everyone else

1312
01:15:44,533 --> 01:15:47,173
Speaker 3: that you know that meant you have made choices in life,

1313
01:15:47,173 --> 01:15:49,773
Speaker 3: and that really affected how you played your life played out.

1314
01:15:50,053 --> 01:15:53,173
Speaker 3: And my wife and I went with friends to Vermont

1315
01:15:53,213 --> 01:15:55,773
Speaker 3: and hiked from ind to in and we got to

1316
01:15:55,853 --> 01:15:58,693
Speaker 3: the Robert Frost area. And it turns out when you

1317
01:15:58,733 --> 01:16:02,893
Speaker 3: read the entire poem, not just the last stanza, Frost

1318
01:16:03,053 --> 01:16:05,573
Speaker 3: actually was saying, it doesn't matter what choice you make,

1319
01:16:05,613 --> 01:16:08,213
Speaker 3: it's talking to turn out the same. And it's just

1320
01:16:08,373 --> 01:16:11,053
Speaker 3: one of those poems where when you read the whole thing,

1321
01:16:11,053 --> 01:16:13,533
Speaker 3: you just go, oh God, I've had this wrong the

1322
01:16:13,573 --> 01:16:17,893
Speaker 3: whole time. It's it's quite breathing. It was quite a

1323
01:16:17,973 --> 01:16:21,133
Speaker 3: clever poem by Robert Frost. It's it's a bit disappointing,

1324
01:16:21,173 --> 01:16:21,773
Speaker 3: but it's clever.

1325
01:16:22,933 --> 01:16:26,813
Speaker 2: So The Age of Foolishness a Doubter's guide to constitutionalism

1326
01:16:26,893 --> 01:16:31,293
Speaker 2: in a modern democracy. I'm going to order it almost

1327
01:16:31,293 --> 01:16:32,453
Speaker 2: straight straight away.

1328
01:16:33,333 --> 01:16:35,413
Speaker 3: The more the merry I can keep my I can

1329
01:16:35,493 --> 01:16:40,613
Speaker 3: keep my wife and the lifestyle she deserves, I.

1330
01:16:40,693 --> 01:16:45,533
Speaker 2: Better pay double them, all right, Jim, outstanding, outstanding, great,

1331
01:16:45,573 --> 01:16:46,293
Speaker 2: Thank you all right.

1332
01:16:46,573 --> 01:16:47,133
Speaker 3: By buck.

1333
01:16:56,573 --> 01:17:00,973
Speaker 2: Leverix is an antihistamine made in Switzerland to the highest quality.

1334
01:17:01,213 --> 01:17:05,053
Speaker 2: Leverx relieves hay fever and skin allergies or itchy skin.

1335
01:17:05,533 --> 01:17:09,173
Speaker 2: It's a dual action antihistamine it has it's a unique

1336
01:17:09,413 --> 01:17:14,493
Speaker 2: nasal decongestent action. It's fast acting for fast relief, and

1337
01:17:14,613 --> 01:17:17,493
Speaker 2: it works in under an hour and lasts for over

1338
01:17:17,533 --> 01:17:21,253
Speaker 2: twenty four hours. Leverrix is a tiny tablet that unblocks

1339
01:17:21,253 --> 01:17:25,613
Speaker 2: the nose, deals with itchy eyes, and stops sneezing. Leverrix

1340
01:17:25,733 --> 01:17:29,413
Speaker 2: is an antihistamine made in Switzerland to the highest quality.

1341
01:17:29,893 --> 01:17:32,973
Speaker 2: So next time you're in need of an effective antihistamine,

1342
01:17:33,413 --> 01:17:38,493
Speaker 2: call into the pharmacy and ask for Leverix lv Rix,

1343
01:17:38,973 --> 01:17:42,653
Speaker 2: Levrix and always read the label. Takes directed and if

1344
01:17:42,693 --> 01:17:47,133
Speaker 2: symptoms persist, see your health professional. Farmer broker Auckland.

1345
01:17:52,973 --> 01:17:53,733
Speaker 3: Layton Smith.

1346
01:17:55,053 --> 01:17:57,253
Speaker 2: I went to the mail room for podcast two hundred

1347
01:17:57,253 --> 01:17:59,853
Speaker 2: and seventy nine, missus producer. You're doing well.

1348
01:17:59,853 --> 01:18:01,653
Speaker 4: Late, No fabulous, thank you.

1349
01:18:01,773 --> 01:18:04,693
Speaker 2: I've got something to share with you. Oh but I'll

1350
01:18:04,693 --> 01:18:06,853
Speaker 2: save it till the back end can barely wait. Very good.

1351
01:18:07,053 --> 01:18:09,573
Speaker 2: Why don't you go? As indeed?

1352
01:18:10,453 --> 01:18:13,373
Speaker 4: Vincent says, I can't help but laugh at the media

1353
01:18:13,453 --> 01:18:18,333
Speaker 4: and their reports. Sorry opinions of an economic nuclear winter

1354
01:18:18,613 --> 01:18:21,893
Speaker 4: as a result of President Trump's tariff move. What people

1355
01:18:21,893 --> 01:18:24,333
Speaker 4: don't seem to appreciate is that he's done this to

1356
01:18:24,373 --> 01:18:27,893
Speaker 4: protect the domestic interests of the United States and those

1357
01:18:27,933 --> 01:18:31,013
Speaker 4: who voted for him. He's not beholden to the rest

1358
01:18:31,053 --> 01:18:34,853
Speaker 4: of the world. Most average Americans won't be shareholders, so

1359
01:18:34,893 --> 01:18:37,253
Speaker 4: they'll be keen to see the prices of everyday goods

1360
01:18:37,333 --> 01:18:41,013
Speaker 4: go down as a result of increased manufacturing within their

1361
01:18:41,053 --> 01:18:44,293
Speaker 4: own country. They won't be worried about their non existent

1362
01:18:44,453 --> 01:18:49,813
Speaker 4: stock portfolios. Keep up the great work. You're both really appreciated, Vincent,

1363
01:18:49,893 --> 01:18:50,853
Speaker 4: Thank you so much.

1364
01:18:51,053 --> 01:18:55,253
Speaker 2: Indeed, Vincent, very good from Nick. I've just listened to

1365
01:18:55,253 --> 01:18:58,693
Speaker 2: your podcast with doctor Guy Hatchard's on what really happened

1366
01:18:58,813 --> 01:19:02,373
Speaker 2: with the recent COVID nineteen pandemic. I've always been a

1367
01:19:02,413 --> 01:19:06,413
Speaker 2: COVID nineteen vaccine skeptic and would like to let you

1368
01:19:06,533 --> 01:19:11,093
Speaker 2: know that there are now very good reasons for being so.

1369
01:19:11,213 --> 01:19:14,013
Speaker 2: Please refer to the two attachments below, which show a

1370
01:19:14,333 --> 01:19:18,613
Speaker 2: six hundred and ten percent increase in the risk of myocarditis,

1371
01:19:19,373 --> 01:19:22,173
Speaker 2: a three hundred and seventy eight percent increase in the

1372
01:19:22,253 --> 01:19:30,493
Speaker 2: risk of disseminated encephalom eulitis not encephalitis, no in cephalon eulitis.

1373
01:19:30,693 --> 01:19:34,293
Speaker 2: So i'd spell a three hundred and twenty three percent

1374
01:19:34,413 --> 01:19:37,853
Speaker 2: increase in the risk of cerebral frombrosis, at a two

1375
01:19:37,933 --> 01:19:40,053
Speaker 2: hundred and forty nine percent increase in the risk of

1376
01:19:40,093 --> 01:19:44,853
Speaker 2: Gillian bar syndrome, and still the vaccine has not been withdrawn.

1377
01:19:45,373 --> 01:19:48,413
Speaker 2: For your information, I have sent the same attachments to

1378
01:19:48,453 --> 01:19:52,053
Speaker 2: the Prime Minister Leaders of the Coalition, Simeon Brown and

1379
01:19:52,133 --> 01:19:55,493
Speaker 2: doctor Shane Retty. I have taken this action because the

1380
01:19:55,813 --> 01:20:01,413
Speaker 2: Gene Technology Bill will allow biotechnologists a free reign to

1381
01:20:01,533 --> 01:20:05,453
Speaker 2: take risks that are likely to result in similar outcomes.

1382
01:20:05,973 --> 01:20:10,573
Speaker 2: The question that must be asked is are they deliberately

1383
01:20:10,613 --> 01:20:13,773
Speaker 2: trying to kill us? Perhaps in your rival's a well

1384
01:20:13,813 --> 01:20:16,493
Speaker 2: known podcaster, you might be able to put this to

1385
01:20:16,573 --> 01:20:21,253
Speaker 2: the appropriate Minister of the Crown. The answer is well,

1386
01:20:21,333 --> 01:20:24,333
Speaker 2: the comment I have is you've sent this to all

1387
01:20:24,333 --> 01:20:26,933
Speaker 2: in Sundry, well to a few people. I will be

1388
01:20:27,053 --> 01:20:29,533
Speaker 2: very surprised if you advise me that you heard back

1389
01:20:29,573 --> 01:20:32,613
Speaker 2: from any of them. Maybe you'll get something saying from

1390
01:20:33,093 --> 01:20:38,733
Speaker 2: an assistant assistant that we've got it, thanks, we don't care,

1391
01:20:40,173 --> 01:20:42,933
Speaker 2: or something along those lines. But if you do, if

1392
01:20:42,933 --> 01:20:44,693
Speaker 2: you do get a reply from any of the people

1393
01:20:44,733 --> 01:20:47,133
Speaker 2: that you directly sent it, to or thought you did,

1394
01:20:47,253 --> 01:20:48,013
Speaker 2: then let me know.

1395
01:20:48,813 --> 01:20:54,613
Speaker 4: Leyton Bretzt written to you about New Zealand first introducing

1396
01:20:54,813 --> 01:20:57,853
Speaker 4: bill that gives democracy back to the people. That's his subject,

1397
01:20:58,413 --> 01:21:01,573
Speaker 4: and he says of it sounds all good until one

1398
01:21:01,613 --> 01:21:04,653
Speaker 4: considers how often we actually see a conscience vote as

1399
01:21:04,693 --> 01:21:07,333
Speaker 4: for us, say, in social fabric issues. I note the

1400
01:21:07,413 --> 01:21:09,373
Speaker 4: New Zealand people had no say on any of it

1401
01:21:09,453 --> 01:21:13,173
Speaker 4: regarding the last government or the last fifty years. On

1402
01:21:13,293 --> 01:21:16,533
Speaker 4: many issues, New Zealand people are still locked out of

1403
01:21:16,573 --> 01:21:19,773
Speaker 4: important issues facing the nation, and government will do what

1404
01:21:19,813 --> 01:21:23,533
Speaker 4: they like regardless. Would we the public do any better?

1405
01:21:23,613 --> 01:21:28,333
Speaker 4: Given how one sided, destructive and unbalanced our institutions and

1406
01:21:28,453 --> 01:21:32,253
Speaker 4: aspects of society have become. I'm not actually sure that

1407
01:21:32,333 --> 01:21:36,413
Speaker 4: our representatives represent the people so much as the party.

1408
01:21:36,733 --> 01:21:40,813
Speaker 4: I don't feel well represented. There's no full proof system

1409
01:21:40,853 --> 01:21:43,573
Speaker 4: of governance. But please, can we do something better than

1410
01:21:43,573 --> 01:21:43,933
Speaker 4: we are?

1411
01:21:45,133 --> 01:21:48,373
Speaker 2: I'm hearing that more and more, and I don't hold abreast.

1412
01:21:49,093 --> 01:21:53,093
Speaker 2: You know how change happens. It happens mostly when people

1413
01:21:53,133 --> 01:21:58,653
Speaker 2: demand it, and enough people demanded, and so the responsibilities

1414
01:21:58,693 --> 01:22:02,053
Speaker 2: really on all of our shoulders. It's mychaol re your

1415
01:22:02,053 --> 01:22:05,773
Speaker 2: discussion with Matt Margolis from Warren. This quote from the

1416
01:22:05,813 --> 01:22:11,453
Speaker 2: book A Mountain of Crumbs by Elena Godakova addresses some

1417
01:22:11,533 --> 01:22:16,213
Speaker 2: of the points raised. The rules are simple. They lie

1418
01:22:16,293 --> 01:22:19,093
Speaker 2: to us. We know they're lying, They know that we

1419
01:22:19,173 --> 01:22:21,693
Speaker 2: know they're lying, but they keep lying to us, and

1420
01:22:21,733 --> 01:22:26,213
Speaker 2: we keep pretending to believe them. Also, I can advise that,

1421
01:22:26,453 --> 01:22:29,893
Speaker 2: regarding the space station astronauts, Channel seven and nine here

1422
01:22:29,893 --> 01:22:34,013
Speaker 2: in Brisbane covered their recovery and return but did not

1423
01:22:34,173 --> 01:22:37,773
Speaker 2: once mention Elon Musk or Trump. Of course, this is

1424
01:22:37,813 --> 01:22:41,213
Speaker 2: no surprise. I had watched similar coverage on a Newsmax

1425
01:22:41,293 --> 01:22:45,853
Speaker 2: stream and saw Slash heard both astronauts expressing their gratitude

1426
01:22:45,853 --> 01:22:50,573
Speaker 2: to both Musk and Trump. As expected, TDS and MDS

1427
01:22:50,693 --> 01:22:54,973
Speaker 2: are alive and well in Australia too. There was something

1428
01:22:54,973 --> 01:22:57,733
Speaker 2: I was going to add there. Look for news on

1429
01:22:57,813 --> 01:23:02,133
Speaker 2: the Newsmax front. It's going to be upcoming fairly shortly

1430
01:23:02,613 --> 01:23:03,293
Speaker 2: in Australia.

1431
01:23:04,173 --> 01:23:07,253
Speaker 4: Layton Chris says, you wondered why write leaning politics finds

1432
01:23:07,253 --> 01:23:10,613
Speaker 4: it much harder to gain consensus than the left. Could

1433
01:23:10,613 --> 01:23:13,813
Speaker 4: the answer be staring us in plain sight, Those on

1434
01:23:13,853 --> 01:23:17,413
Speaker 4: the left have little value for human life, personal freedom, choice,

1435
01:23:17,533 --> 01:23:21,773
Speaker 4: or individual thought. The evidence for this is overwhelming. Because

1436
01:23:21,893 --> 01:23:26,133
Speaker 4: humans are so diverse, any system that values individual contributions

1437
01:23:26,293 --> 01:23:31,093
Speaker 4: will invariably have dissenters, rebels, and people able to logically

1438
01:23:31,213 --> 01:23:34,773
Speaker 4: articulate different views. So the right will always be more

1439
01:23:34,813 --> 01:23:39,413
Speaker 4: fragmented as people align differently on each unique topic. Thus,

1440
01:23:39,453 --> 01:23:42,093
Speaker 4: I can only conclude that a certain amount of brainwashing

1441
01:23:42,213 --> 01:23:45,053
Speaker 4: must take place on the left. So for those who

1442
01:23:45,173 --> 01:23:49,133
Speaker 4: wish to reach the brainwashed left, we must understand that

1443
01:23:49,573 --> 01:23:53,173
Speaker 4: debating their politics is a losing battle. Instead of winning

1444
01:23:53,253 --> 01:23:56,133
Speaker 4: the mind, we must win the heart by giving them

1445
01:23:56,173 --> 01:23:57,693
Speaker 4: a better place to belong.

1446
01:23:58,253 --> 01:24:05,533
Speaker 2: Been good. This is This is interesting considering the interview

1447
01:24:05,573 --> 01:24:09,773
Speaker 2: today discussion today. I alternate between the two words depending

1448
01:24:09,853 --> 01:24:12,373
Speaker 2: on how I feel about it. There was a discussion,

1449
01:24:12,493 --> 01:24:16,693
Speaker 2: and I prefer them now as conversation rises. In the

1450
01:24:16,733 --> 01:24:19,973
Speaker 2: wake of Donald Trump's victory, there seems to be a

1451
01:24:20,013 --> 01:24:24,173
Speaker 2: corresponding increase in judicial activism and lawfare around the world.

1452
01:24:24,653 --> 01:24:29,773
Speaker 2: The corrupt activist judge James Mooseburg orchestrated his own judicial

1453
01:24:29,853 --> 01:24:36,333
Speaker 2: assignments to thwart every single Trump initiative. French leftists weaponize

1454
01:24:36,413 --> 01:24:39,853
Speaker 2: lawfare to ban marine le penn from the twenty twenty

1455
01:24:39,853 --> 01:24:43,373
Speaker 2: seven election, the New Zealand High Court dismissed real estate

1456
01:24:43,413 --> 01:24:47,133
Speaker 2: agent Janet Dixon's claim that the real estate agent's authority

1457
01:24:47,293 --> 01:24:51,333
Speaker 2: unlawfully mandated a Mari course that goes against her own religion.

1458
01:24:51,893 --> 01:24:55,493
Speaker 2: I believe the proliferation of judicial activism and lawfare can

1459
01:24:55,533 --> 01:24:59,773
Speaker 2: be boiled down to one core problem, a corrupt, immoral,

1460
01:25:00,133 --> 01:25:06,453
Speaker 2: and impotent fourth estate. Thankfully, as mainstream media grows increasingly dishonest,

1461
01:25:07,413 --> 01:25:10,973
Speaker 2: new alternative mean there is reporting honestly. PJ Media's Matt

1462
01:25:11,013 --> 01:25:15,653
Speaker 2: Margolis exposed Bosburg for lying about being randomly assigned to

1463
01:25:16,013 --> 01:25:19,773
Speaker 2: rule against Trump's deportation of criminal illegal aliens, when a

1464
01:25:19,813 --> 01:25:23,453
Speaker 2: transcript revealed he already knew the case was coming and

1465
01:25:23,533 --> 01:25:28,333
Speaker 2: had planned accordingly. The European Conservative reports the increasing conservative

1466
01:25:28,333 --> 01:25:32,653
Speaker 2: backlash against Lepen's false imprisonment. The New Zealand Free Speech

1467
01:25:32,733 --> 01:25:36,693
Speaker 2: Union wrote a press release about intervening in Janet Dixon's

1468
01:25:36,733 --> 01:25:40,653
Speaker 2: appeal case. I find it utterly hypocritical that the New

1469
01:25:40,733 --> 01:25:43,893
Speaker 2: Zealand mainstream media would which hunt the hell out of

1470
01:25:43,933 --> 01:25:47,013
Speaker 2: poor Andrew Bailey, who merely touched someone's arm in a

1471
01:25:47,293 --> 01:25:51,533
Speaker 2: heated discussion, and yet remained completely silent on the Green

1472
01:25:51,613 --> 01:25:55,813
Speaker 2: Party's Benjamin Doyle, who suggestively kisses his own son on

1473
01:25:55,853 --> 01:26:01,293
Speaker 2: the lips and posts sexually suggestive emojis about children. The

1474
01:26:01,333 --> 01:26:04,493
Speaker 2: old fourth Estate has passed away, the new fourth Estate

1475
01:26:04,533 --> 01:26:08,133
Speaker 2: has come thanks for being part of New Zealand's leading

1476
01:26:08,453 --> 01:26:11,053
Speaker 2: new Force of States. So the comment that I would

1477
01:26:11,133 --> 01:26:14,053
Speaker 2: make on that is that it was very timely considering

1478
01:26:14,173 --> 01:26:16,373
Speaker 2: the discussion that we've just still listened to.

1479
01:26:17,453 --> 01:26:21,613
Speaker 4: Laden Susan writes about homeschooling, and this is quite lengthy

1480
01:26:21,653 --> 01:26:25,573
Speaker 4: but very interesting. We're still homeschooling here in New Zealand,

1481
01:26:25,573 --> 01:26:28,293
Speaker 4: and I wanted to share something we encountered. We have

1482
01:26:28,333 --> 01:26:31,173
Speaker 4: an eclectic mix of curricula that we use for our

1483
01:26:31,213 --> 01:26:35,293
Speaker 4: three children, but have chosen Cambridge for our science studies

1484
01:26:35,293 --> 01:26:38,693
Speaker 4: because it's supposed to be comparatively rigorous and it's used

1485
01:26:38,733 --> 01:26:41,053
Speaker 4: by many of the top private schools in New Zealand.

1486
01:26:41,933 --> 01:26:45,693
Speaker 4: And she sends a photo from the Cambridge University Presses

1487
01:26:45,813 --> 01:26:49,933
Speaker 4: course book for a year nine student, and she wants

1488
01:26:49,973 --> 01:26:54,133
Speaker 4: to show you that the subunit is called protecting the Environment.

1489
01:26:54,773 --> 01:26:58,653
Speaker 4: The summary section at the end is particularly telling, says Susan.

1490
01:26:59,293 --> 01:27:01,893
Speaker 4: In the other sub units, the summaries are filled with

1491
01:27:02,093 --> 01:27:06,973
Speaker 4: scientific phenomena processes, principles, and facts as you would expect

1492
01:27:06,973 --> 01:27:10,373
Speaker 4: of a science book. Here's the summary for this unit.

1493
01:27:11,773 --> 01:27:14,573
Speaker 4: Nations all over the world are acting together to try

1494
01:27:14,613 --> 01:27:18,373
Speaker 4: and reduce the harm we do to the environment. The

1495
01:27:18,453 --> 01:27:23,133
Speaker 4: rams Are Convention has helped to save many wetlands. There

1496
01:27:23,173 --> 01:27:28,413
Speaker 4: has been great success in reducing CFC emissions, and finally

1497
01:27:28,613 --> 01:27:33,173
Speaker 4: it is proving very difficult to reduce carbon dioxide emissions.

1498
01:27:34,013 --> 01:27:36,533
Speaker 4: And Susan says, I suppose it was a good lesson

1499
01:27:36,693 --> 01:27:41,733
Speaker 4: on arguable presuppositions, propaganda, and what science is and what

1500
01:27:41,853 --> 01:27:45,013
Speaker 4: it is not to be honest. We have been disappointed

1501
01:27:45,053 --> 01:27:49,453
Speaker 4: with modern Western curricula. We have modern books and older books,

1502
01:27:49,493 --> 01:27:52,853
Speaker 4: and it's clear that the general rigger is gone. The

1503
01:27:52,933 --> 01:27:56,973
Speaker 4: modern books have less actual content and are distracting with

1504
01:27:57,053 --> 01:28:01,253
Speaker 4: bright layouts and images. This particular series seems to be

1505
01:28:01,293 --> 01:28:06,773
Speaker 4: obsessed with representing diversity, such as using uncommon foreign names

1506
01:28:06,813 --> 01:28:11,213
Speaker 4: when talking about fictitious students in their examples, and showing

1507
01:28:11,293 --> 01:28:15,053
Speaker 4: images of these fictitious students like ones wearing his jobs.

1508
01:28:15,693 --> 01:28:18,853
Speaker 4: The whole concept of adding kids to their examples seems

1509
01:28:18,853 --> 01:28:22,373
Speaker 4: to be a contrivance of a dei initiative rather than

1510
01:28:22,373 --> 01:28:26,373
Speaker 4: an educational methodology. I know this may seem monocuous, but

1511
01:28:26,453 --> 01:28:28,573
Speaker 4: I can tell you that along with this we also

1512
01:28:28,653 --> 01:28:31,933
Speaker 4: see errors on a regular basis. Clearly the authors were

1513
01:28:31,973 --> 01:28:37,013
Speaker 4: distracted too. The ideological takeover of many of our institutions

1514
01:28:37,053 --> 01:28:41,253
Speaker 4: has a common route, stemmed by the ideological takeover of

1515
01:28:41,293 --> 01:28:46,453
Speaker 4: our education system. Healing our institutions will take healing our

1516
01:28:46,573 --> 01:28:50,733
Speaker 4: children's minds. I'm not suggesting a magic bullet, but a

1517
01:28:50,813 --> 01:28:56,053
Speaker 4: turnaround in education would ripple through society. Still loving your podcast,

1518
01:28:56,173 --> 01:28:57,253
Speaker 4: and that's from Susan.

1519
01:28:57,413 --> 01:29:01,853
Speaker 2: Susan superb and correct in as far as I could

1520
01:29:01,933 --> 01:29:07,573
Speaker 2: tell every sense. Thank you. Now I'll explain. I'll explain

1521
01:29:08,373 --> 01:29:11,173
Speaker 2: who the author is at the end of this, but

1522
01:29:11,213 --> 01:29:13,733
Speaker 2: I have to work my way through it. It's too

1523
01:29:13,773 --> 01:29:16,533
Speaker 2: long for me to read in its entirety, but I

1524
01:29:17,493 --> 01:29:20,573
Speaker 2: will extract as we go. I miss your News Talks

1525
01:29:20,653 --> 01:29:25,293
Speaker 2: EDB show. Every morning I listen to the radio. Unfortunately,

1526
01:29:25,413 --> 01:29:28,213
Speaker 2: our sound system cannot pick up newstalks EDB and we

1527
01:29:28,253 --> 01:29:31,813
Speaker 2: are forced to listen to a bunch of others on

1528
01:29:32,293 --> 01:29:35,373
Speaker 2: coast in the morning. Please don't get me started on

1529
01:29:35,493 --> 01:29:40,173
Speaker 2: my opinion of the show. I'm currently listening to your

1530
01:29:40,213 --> 01:29:45,533
Speaker 2: podcast to seven eight with Matt mcgoulas fascinating gentlemen, well

1531
01:29:45,573 --> 01:29:49,293
Speaker 2: worth your investment in interviewing him for your podcast. Do

1532
01:29:49,453 --> 01:29:53,253
Speaker 2: you know the doc the gentleman in charge of the

1533
01:29:53,293 --> 01:29:56,453
Speaker 2: Sport and Recreation bachelor degree that I graduated in in

1534
01:29:56,493 --> 01:30:00,733
Speaker 2: two thousand and nine once made a valuable statement to me.

1535
01:30:01,333 --> 01:30:06,093
Speaker 2: It was referring to me. He said, you think higher

1536
01:30:06,213 --> 01:30:10,093
Speaker 2: education is all about answers and the correct ones, but

1537
01:30:10,173 --> 01:30:13,973
Speaker 2: do you know the real purpose of higher education? I answered, no,

1538
01:30:14,093 --> 01:30:18,973
Speaker 2: I don't. He replied, it is about asking the correct questions.

1539
01:30:20,293 --> 01:30:24,253
Speaker 2: I have never forgotten his wife's statement. I will endeavor

1540
01:30:24,293 --> 01:30:27,013
Speaker 2: to listen to more of your smart podcasts. Laton, just

1541
01:30:27,093 --> 01:30:30,733
Speaker 2: heard your statements on how kiwis get fed a diet

1542
01:30:30,773 --> 01:30:33,973
Speaker 2: of left wing socialist media, and I couldn't agree more.

1543
01:30:34,213 --> 01:30:38,853
Speaker 2: And unfortunately has got worse or somehow has increased. The

1544
01:30:38,933 --> 01:30:42,053
Speaker 2: ratio is not equal fifty to fifty left right slanted

1545
01:30:42,093 --> 01:30:46,773
Speaker 2: media content. What what is your estimate measurement? Laton? My

1546
01:30:46,853 --> 01:30:49,893
Speaker 2: wife and I always watched TV one News at six pm. However,

1547
01:30:49,933 --> 01:30:52,973
Speaker 2: over the years it has somehow slowly but surely increased

1548
01:30:53,013 --> 01:30:57,053
Speaker 2: its political angle of investigating and reporting toward the left.

1549
01:30:57,813 --> 01:31:01,653
Speaker 2: Mind you, I guess it, sir, has always been like that. Why,

1550
01:31:03,093 --> 01:31:06,933
Speaker 2: you could say, because it's a state funded television station,

1551
01:31:07,173 --> 01:31:10,173
Speaker 2: therefore it must or needs to cater for most of

1552
01:31:10,213 --> 01:31:14,453
Speaker 2: its audience preferences, and that would be leftist or socialist

1553
01:31:14,493 --> 01:31:18,453
Speaker 2: political beliefs. I've noted how all the reporters now appear

1554
01:31:18,493 --> 01:31:21,693
Speaker 2: to angle this stor is toward leftist socialist view and

1555
01:31:21,773 --> 01:31:24,573
Speaker 2: I do and I don't agree with this. And the

1556
01:31:24,653 --> 01:31:28,813
Speaker 2: question then is are the reporters leftist socialist voters or

1557
01:31:28,853 --> 01:31:31,813
Speaker 2: they have leftist socialist political views. The answer, of course

1558
01:31:31,853 --> 01:31:37,333
Speaker 2: they do. Absolutely. During my studies toward my bachelor I

1559
01:31:37,413 --> 01:31:39,533
Speaker 2: missed out a bit hit. But during my studies toward

1560
01:31:39,613 --> 01:31:42,813
Speaker 2: my bachelor degree the two thousand to two thousand and nine,

1561
01:31:43,413 --> 01:31:46,773
Speaker 2: I was fed a diet of leftist socialist angles of education,

1562
01:31:47,453 --> 01:31:49,813
Speaker 2: and of course I swallowed it hook line and sinker,

1563
01:31:50,253 --> 01:31:54,493
Speaker 2: came out favoring the leftist socialist in my thinking. I

1564
01:31:54,533 --> 01:31:56,813
Speaker 2: can't tell you how long it took me to understand

1565
01:31:56,813 --> 01:32:00,453
Speaker 2: my thinking was incorrect. However, I changed my political beliefs

1566
01:32:00,453 --> 01:32:02,973
Speaker 2: to the center right, and I am so thankful and

1567
01:32:03,013 --> 01:32:06,373
Speaker 2: relieved I did. What concerns me, latent is this constant

1568
01:32:06,453 --> 01:32:09,973
Speaker 2: left wing socialist agenda of education being fed to students

1569
01:32:10,173 --> 01:32:13,613
Speaker 2: in our system. It is wrong on so many levels.

1570
01:32:14,133 --> 01:32:19,253
Speaker 2: The education system teaches students now to become university students

1571
01:32:19,373 --> 01:32:23,573
Speaker 2: join left wing socialist groups and organizations that are funded

1572
01:32:23,613 --> 01:32:27,013
Speaker 2: by the state at tend protests and align themselves with

1573
01:32:27,093 --> 01:32:29,693
Speaker 2: the left Why And that's where I'm going to leave it,

1574
01:32:29,733 --> 01:32:35,213
Speaker 2: because it gets quite intense. And at the end he says, Now,

1575
01:32:35,213 --> 01:32:36,453
Speaker 2: I'll tell you what he says at the end of

1576
01:32:36,493 --> 01:32:39,733
Speaker 2: a minute, let me tell you who he is. His

1577
01:32:39,813 --> 01:32:43,813
Speaker 2: name is Layton Smith. He comes from the Deep South,

1578
01:32:45,173 --> 01:32:49,093
Speaker 2: and I got to know him through this is producer

1579
01:32:49,213 --> 01:32:51,733
Speaker 2: keep me in my lane, please, But I got to

1580
01:32:51,773 --> 01:32:55,813
Speaker 2: know him through a phone call I believe I got

1581
01:32:56,213 --> 01:32:59,453
Speaker 2: or was it a message anyway either way from a

1582
01:32:59,493 --> 01:33:04,533
Speaker 2: woman who said, this fellow is in hospital having had

1583
01:33:04,533 --> 01:33:08,093
Speaker 2: a motorbike accident where he lost his leg and his hip,

1584
01:33:08,693 --> 01:33:12,293
Speaker 2: and he's miserable on account of the fact that his

1585
01:33:12,413 --> 01:33:16,813
Speaker 2: name is the same as yours, would you please consider

1586
01:33:16,893 --> 01:33:18,853
Speaker 2: giving him a call or words to that effect. So

1587
01:33:18,853 --> 01:33:22,293
Speaker 2: I rang him in the hospital and he couldn't believe it.

1588
01:33:22,293 --> 01:33:25,693
Speaker 2: It was fun and we corresponded quite a lot, and

1589
01:33:25,693 --> 01:33:28,173
Speaker 2: he rang the program a few times, quite a few times,

1590
01:33:28,333 --> 01:33:31,493
Speaker 2: and he wrote to me a lot, and I haven't

1591
01:33:31,533 --> 01:33:33,973
Speaker 2: heard from him in the last few years, and so

1592
01:33:34,013 --> 01:33:36,053
Speaker 2: I'm very pleased lately to hear from you and that

1593
01:33:36,133 --> 01:33:40,333
Speaker 2: everything's great with what you referred to as you and

1594
01:33:40,373 --> 01:33:44,573
Speaker 2: your wife, and you ask at the end, hope you

1595
01:33:44,613 --> 01:33:48,253
Speaker 2: and Carolyn are happy, and well, do you want to

1596
01:33:48,293 --> 01:33:50,573
Speaker 2: know a secret? It's not going to be a secret

1597
01:33:50,613 --> 01:33:53,533
Speaker 2: for much longer. Thirteen is my lucky number. I was

1598
01:33:53,533 --> 01:33:55,213
Speaker 2: born on Friday of the thirteenth. I've got my driving

1599
01:33:55,213 --> 01:33:58,533
Speaker 2: license on Friday the thirteenth, thirteen years between Carolyn and me,

1600
01:33:58,653 --> 01:34:02,573
Speaker 2: and today, this very day is our thirteenth wedding anniversary.

1601
01:34:03,173 --> 01:34:06,453
Speaker 2: So there you go. We're out of here. We're going

1602
01:34:06,573 --> 01:34:10,533
Speaker 2: We're going to celebrate exactly as a producer. Happy anniversary.

1603
01:34:10,693 --> 01:34:11,573
Speaker 4: Thank you, darling.

1604
01:34:11,733 --> 01:34:35,453
Speaker 2: You're most welcome. Now, what you were about to hear

1605
01:34:35,973 --> 01:34:39,053
Speaker 2: maybe the best. If it's not the best, then it's

1606
01:34:39,053 --> 01:34:44,133
Speaker 2: certainly in the top grouping of opinions on the current

1607
01:34:44,253 --> 01:34:49,893
Speaker 2: tariff situation, and it explains some of the misunderstandings that

1608
01:34:50,053 --> 01:34:53,173
Speaker 2: exist and that you hear every day on whatever media

1609
01:34:53,733 --> 01:34:56,653
Speaker 2: that you get your information from. At the end of it,

1610
01:34:56,733 --> 01:35:00,013
Speaker 2: I will credit the author. I wanted just to be

1611
01:35:00,053 --> 01:35:02,933
Speaker 2: a statement that I believe is so good you can

1612
01:35:02,973 --> 01:35:06,013
Speaker 2: make up your own mind. On April second, President Donald J.

1613
01:35:06,173 --> 01:35:10,413
Speaker 2: Trump did something no other president has had the spine

1614
01:35:10,453 --> 01:35:14,773
Speaker 2: to do. He declared Liberation Day and slapped sweeping tariffs

1615
01:35:15,013 --> 01:35:17,333
Speaker 2: on the very nations that have been gutting the American

1616
01:35:17,373 --> 01:35:21,853
Speaker 2: economy for decades. A ten percent universal tariff across all imports,

1617
01:35:22,333 --> 01:35:25,653
Speaker 2: targeted punitive tariffs up to thirty four percent on bad

1618
01:35:25,693 --> 01:35:29,733
Speaker 2: actors like China. And guess what we should be furious

1619
01:35:30,173 --> 01:35:33,493
Speaker 2: Not a Trump, but at the spineless presidents before him

1620
01:35:33,933 --> 01:35:36,733
Speaker 2: who let things get this bad in the first place.

1621
01:35:37,533 --> 01:35:41,453
Speaker 2: Let's be clear, these tariffs did not start a trade war,

1622
01:35:42,013 --> 01:35:45,693
Speaker 2: they responded to one. For decades, our so called allies

1623
01:35:45,733 --> 01:35:49,293
Speaker 2: and trading partners have been gleefully waging economic warfare on

1624
01:35:49,333 --> 01:35:54,093
Speaker 2: the United States with the full permission, no the encouragement,

1625
01:35:54,573 --> 01:35:59,213
Speaker 2: of prior administrations. China flooded our markets with cheap steel,

1626
01:35:59,533 --> 01:36:03,853
Speaker 2: violating trade norms and collapsing American mills. The European Union

1627
01:36:03,893 --> 01:36:08,373
Speaker 2: protected its own industries whilst slapping barriers on ours, and

1628
01:36:08,693 --> 01:36:13,053
Speaker 2: Taiwan and others enjoyed one sided access to our consumers

1629
01:36:13,093 --> 01:36:16,613
Speaker 2: while shielding their own markets with layers of red tape

1630
01:36:16,653 --> 01:36:19,493
Speaker 2: and tariffs. And what did our leaders do in response?

1631
01:36:20,293 --> 01:36:24,653
Speaker 2: They looked the other way, smiled, shook hands, signed one

1632
01:36:24,773 --> 01:36:28,973
Speaker 2: sided trade deals, sold us out. They told us it

1633
01:36:29,053 --> 01:36:34,253
Speaker 2: was for the global good, for peace and prosperity, But

1634
01:36:34,333 --> 01:36:37,933
Speaker 2: the only people prospering were in Beijing, Brussels, and Tokyo.

1635
01:36:38,573 --> 01:36:43,813
Speaker 2: In smalltown Ohio, Detroit, and western Pennsylvania, all we got

1636
01:36:43,893 --> 01:36:48,693
Speaker 2: were pink slips and bordered up factories. Trump's Liberation Day

1637
01:36:48,733 --> 01:36:54,173
Speaker 2: tariffs long overdue justice. They're a correction to a rigged

1638
01:36:54,213 --> 01:36:57,773
Speaker 2: game that's been hurting American businesses, workers, and families for

1639
01:36:58,093 --> 01:37:02,453
Speaker 2: far too long. Let's talk steel and aluminium. In twenty eighteen,

1640
01:37:02,493 --> 01:37:05,613
Speaker 2: President Trump placed a twenty five percent tariff on foreign

1641
01:37:05,653 --> 01:37:09,893
Speaker 2: steel and ten percent on aluminium to pushback against dumping

1642
01:37:10,133 --> 01:37:14,893
Speaker 2: and reclaim our national security edge. That was not a

1643
01:37:15,013 --> 01:37:19,293
Speaker 2: rash decision. It was backed by years of data showing

1644
01:37:19,333 --> 01:37:23,413
Speaker 2: our dependence on foreign metals made us vulnerable. Yet in

1645
01:37:23,493 --> 01:37:27,413
Speaker 2: that time, d C elites told us to let it happen,

1646
01:37:28,373 --> 01:37:32,573
Speaker 2: that free trade meant letting foreign nations cheat while we

1647
01:37:32,693 --> 01:37:36,053
Speaker 2: played by the rules. Even our farmers haven't been spared.

1648
01:37:36,573 --> 01:37:40,293
Speaker 2: Take California as almungrowers part of a twenty three point

1649
01:37:40,413 --> 01:37:46,173
Speaker 2: six billion agriculture export economy. Under previous administrations, they were

1650
01:37:46,253 --> 01:37:49,013
Speaker 2: hung out to dry as countries like China and India

1651
01:37:49,453 --> 01:37:53,493
Speaker 2: retaliated against our lack of backbone by imposing their own

1652
01:37:53,573 --> 01:37:57,893
Speaker 2: crushing tariffs. Instead of defending our farmers, those in power

1653
01:37:58,053 --> 01:38:00,853
Speaker 2: shrugged and said it was the cost of doing business

1654
01:38:01,133 --> 01:38:06,213
Speaker 2: in a global economy. Its nonsense at its unforgivable. Now,

1655
01:38:06,253 --> 01:38:09,013
Speaker 2: the hand riggers in the media and predicted the Biden

1656
01:38:09,013 --> 01:38:14,333
Speaker 2: administration holdovers are moaning that these tariffs could raise consumer prices,

1657
01:38:14,693 --> 01:38:19,253
Speaker 2: that they could cause friction, that they might prompt retaliation.

1658
01:38:19,893 --> 01:38:24,813
Speaker 2: Good let them squirm, because the goal here is not

1659
01:38:24,853 --> 01:38:28,213
Speaker 2: to make life easy for globalist bureaucrats. It's to bring

1660
01:38:28,293 --> 01:38:33,133
Speaker 2: fairness back to American trade, to restore dignity to American work,

1661
01:38:33,493 --> 01:38:38,893
Speaker 2: and to put America first unapologetically. Treasury Secretary Basant was

1662
01:38:39,053 --> 01:38:43,013
Speaker 2: right to warn other nations not to retaliate. The message

1663
01:38:43,053 --> 01:38:46,773
Speaker 2: is simple. This isn't about starting fights. It's about ending

1664
01:38:46,853 --> 01:38:50,533
Speaker 2: decades of economic surrender. For too long, the US has

1665
01:38:50,573 --> 01:38:55,973
Speaker 2: subsidized the success of other nations while they've exploited our openness.

1666
01:38:56,533 --> 01:38:59,853
Speaker 2: That ends now. Then we begin on a different angle,

1667
01:39:00,093 --> 01:39:02,133
Speaker 2: and this is one that I think New Zealand needs

1668
01:39:02,173 --> 01:39:05,693
Speaker 2: to pay attention to. I have ever since. Well, this

1669
01:39:05,813 --> 01:39:07,693
Speaker 2: reveals itself, and I think that we fall into the

1670
01:39:07,733 --> 01:39:11,533
Speaker 2: same category. Let's talk about the bigger picture. These tariffs

1671
01:39:11,573 --> 01:39:15,733
Speaker 2: are not just about economics. They're about sovereignty and national security.

1672
01:39:16,333 --> 01:39:21,573
Speaker 2: COVID nineteen exposed what happens when America offshores everything from

1673
01:39:21,653 --> 01:39:26,053
Speaker 2: microchips to medicine. We were left scrambling. Now with these tariffs,

1674
01:39:26,093 --> 01:39:29,733
Speaker 2: we have a shot at rebuilding critical industries here at home.

1675
01:39:30,653 --> 01:39:34,693
Speaker 2: You think New Zealand isn't or doesn't share that same issue.

1676
01:39:34,933 --> 01:39:37,893
Speaker 2: We've heard for years that American manufacturing is a relic

1677
01:39:37,933 --> 01:39:40,893
Speaker 2: of the past, that we should get used to service

1678
01:39:40,933 --> 01:39:45,173
Speaker 2: sector jobs, that we can just code apps and order

1679
01:39:45,653 --> 01:39:49,453
Speaker 2: stuff from China. But what happens when China turns off

1680
01:39:49,493 --> 01:39:54,013
Speaker 2: the tap? What happens when global supply chains buckle. We

1681
01:39:54,093 --> 01:39:58,173
Speaker 2: need American factories, we need American steel, we need Americans

1682
01:39:58,173 --> 01:40:02,653
Speaker 2: building things again. Tariffs may cause short term adjustments, but

1683
01:40:02,733 --> 01:40:06,893
Speaker 2: they paved the way for long term independence, and that's

1684
01:40:06,933 --> 01:40:10,173
Speaker 2: worth every penny. The truth is these tariffs are a

1685
01:40:10,373 --> 01:40:13,973
Speaker 2: moral issue. When we allow foreign governments to manipulate currency,

1686
01:40:14,213 --> 01:40:18,853
Speaker 2: exploit labor, and dump products in our market, we're enabling injustice.

1687
01:40:19,333 --> 01:40:22,013
Speaker 2: And when our own leaders look the other way, they

1688
01:40:22,053 --> 01:40:27,053
Speaker 2: are complicit. President Trump isn't just fixing trade, He's exposing

1689
01:40:27,093 --> 01:40:31,173
Speaker 2: the rot. He's showing us how many American politicians were

1690
01:40:31,213 --> 01:40:34,653
Speaker 2: more loyal to global think tanks than to the people

1691
01:40:34,653 --> 01:40:38,013
Speaker 2: who elected them. And that's what really stings the establishment,

1692
01:40:38,213 --> 01:40:42,533
Speaker 2: because Trump, like Reagan before him, puts the American people first,

1693
01:40:42,973 --> 01:40:50,013
Speaker 2: not in retrick, not in focus grouped slogans, but in action, bold, unapologetic,

1694
01:40:50,253 --> 01:40:54,813
Speaker 2: unmistakable action. Where Reagan challenged the Soviets, Trump is challenging

1695
01:40:54,853 --> 01:40:58,413
Speaker 2: a corrupt globalist system. And just like Reagan was right,

1696
01:40:58,493 --> 01:41:02,173
Speaker 2: then Trump is right now. If you're not angry about

1697
01:41:02,173 --> 01:41:06,133
Speaker 2: these tariffs, you're not paying attention. We should be furious

1698
01:41:06,693 --> 01:41:09,973
Speaker 2: that it took this long to get here, Furious at

1699
01:41:10,013 --> 01:41:14,653
Speaker 2: presidents who smiled while our industries died, Furious at politicians

1700
01:41:14,693 --> 01:41:18,613
Speaker 2: who used Middle America as a bargaining chip for Davos klout.

1701
01:41:19,333 --> 01:41:22,333
Speaker 2: But thanks to Trump, the tide is turning. He may

1702
01:41:22,373 --> 01:41:25,253
Speaker 2: be the only president since Reagan who's had the courage

1703
01:41:25,293 --> 01:41:27,573
Speaker 2: to stare down the world and say you will not

1704
01:41:27,653 --> 01:41:32,093
Speaker 2: take advantage of America anymore. And for that, every American,

1705
01:41:32,253 --> 01:41:35,853
Speaker 2: every farmer, every factory worker, every small business owner should

1706
01:41:35,893 --> 01:41:40,733
Speaker 2: be standing and cheering because it's about time someone stood

1707
01:41:40,773 --> 01:41:44,173
Speaker 2: up for us. Shame on the ones who didn't, and

1708
01:41:44,253 --> 01:41:47,893
Speaker 2: thank God for the one who finally did. Now I

1709
01:41:47,933 --> 01:41:53,173
Speaker 2: know that that's some American oriented, but through much of that,

1710
01:41:53,453 --> 01:41:59,293
Speaker 2: especially when I made mention of it about independence, about pharmaceuticals, etc.

1711
01:42:00,373 --> 01:42:03,053
Speaker 2: Took me back when I read this, took me right

1712
01:42:03,133 --> 01:42:06,853
Speaker 2: back to the beginning, to the beginning of COVID, when

1713
01:42:06,853 --> 01:42:10,853
Speaker 2: we were confronted by a problem and that was supply,

1714
01:42:11,973 --> 01:42:15,093
Speaker 2: and I remember taking part in a discussion on it

1715
01:42:15,773 --> 01:42:18,693
Speaker 2: that with regard to New Zealand and our lack of

1716
01:42:18,693 --> 01:42:22,973
Speaker 2: independence in pharmaceuticals and how we depend very much on

1717
01:42:23,053 --> 01:42:27,813
Speaker 2: China and other countries to well help us out. It's

1718
01:42:27,813 --> 01:42:32,253
Speaker 2: fine at the moment, although very recently, relatively recently anyway,

1719
01:42:32,773 --> 01:42:36,013
Speaker 2: we've had the restrictions put on not three months supply

1720
01:42:36,093 --> 01:42:39,413
Speaker 2: of essential pills, but one month at a time because

1721
01:42:39,453 --> 01:42:43,773
Speaker 2: the supply chain was not giving enough at that time,

1722
01:42:44,093 --> 01:42:46,653
Speaker 2: and nothing's changed since. As far as I'm aware, you

1723
01:42:46,773 --> 01:42:49,933
Speaker 2: still only get one month's supply, not three as it

1724
01:42:50,013 --> 01:42:53,213
Speaker 2: used to be. And that's an example of where we

1725
01:42:53,253 --> 01:42:57,133
Speaker 2: will strike the rocks if we don't do something about it. Now,

1726
01:42:57,173 --> 01:43:01,933
Speaker 2: show me a tell me who in government over the

1727
01:43:01,973 --> 01:43:07,333
Speaker 2: last few governments, but particularly over the last two, including

1728
01:43:07,373 --> 01:43:11,493
Speaker 2: the present one, has done anything with regard to pharmaceuticals

1729
01:43:12,133 --> 01:43:15,773
Speaker 2: or establishing something here or helping and aiding and abetting

1730
01:43:15,773 --> 01:43:18,613
Speaker 2: someone to establish it here. Now, if I've made a

1731
01:43:18,613 --> 01:43:23,453
Speaker 2: mistake here and something's happened since my memory serves me,

1732
01:43:24,813 --> 01:43:28,213
Speaker 2: then tell me so, and I be very pleased, and

1733
01:43:28,253 --> 01:43:31,813
Speaker 2: I'd be too happy to withdraw and relax a bit.

1734
01:43:32,413 --> 01:43:34,813
Speaker 2: But in the meantime, just as I'm aware, that's the

1735
01:43:34,853 --> 01:43:38,053
Speaker 2: way that it stands, and we should be demanding it

1736
01:43:38,733 --> 01:43:43,253
Speaker 2: of whoever is in a position to do something about it.

1737
01:43:43,613 --> 01:43:43,773
Speaker 3: Now.

1738
01:43:43,773 --> 01:43:49,653
Speaker 2: That commentary was written by one Kevin McCulloch mc culugh,

1739
01:43:49,973 --> 01:43:55,133
Speaker 2: not Rob McCulloch, but Kevin McCulloch and taken from town

1740
01:43:55,173 --> 01:44:06,533
Speaker 2: Hall dot com. Now, as we are about to send

1741
01:44:06,533 --> 01:44:10,453
Speaker 2: this off for publication, I have received some figures from

1742
01:44:10,813 --> 01:44:15,933
Speaker 2: Patrick Basham and the Democracy Institute and the Democracy Institute

1743
01:44:16,053 --> 01:44:20,053
Speaker 2: National Poll for the Daily Express at a pile of

1744
01:44:20,093 --> 01:44:25,093
Speaker 2: thirteen hundred likely American voters. Now, this is on the tariffs,

1745
01:44:25,453 --> 01:44:28,333
Speaker 2: and the figures fall this way. Forty eight percent of

1746
01:44:28,373 --> 01:44:33,813
Speaker 2: Americans hold, forty eight percent say good, forty one percent

1747
01:44:34,293 --> 01:44:38,333
Speaker 2: say bad, and eleven percent are unsure. So the goods

1748
01:44:38,373 --> 01:44:40,853
Speaker 2: winning at the moment. We'll see how long that lasts.

1749
01:44:41,053 --> 01:44:43,773
Speaker 2: Only time is going to tell, and only time will

1750
01:44:43,773 --> 01:44:46,653
Speaker 2: provide the answer to all of this. But it is,

1751
01:44:47,133 --> 01:44:50,733
Speaker 2: if nothing else, fascinating to watch, and that will take

1752
01:44:50,813 --> 01:44:54,453
Speaker 2: us out for podcasts two one hundred and seventy nine. Now,

1753
01:44:54,493 --> 01:44:57,213
Speaker 2: if you would like to correspond, feel free go for

1754
01:44:57,253 --> 01:45:00,693
Speaker 2: your life Layton at newstalksb dot co dot enz or

1755
01:45:00,773 --> 01:45:05,173
Speaker 2: Carolyn at NEWSTALKSMB dot co dot nz logic complaints with

1756
01:45:05,253 --> 01:45:08,973
Speaker 2: herpleas and I'll take the rest. In a few day's time,

1757
01:45:09,053 --> 01:45:12,333
Speaker 2: we shall return with podcast number two hundred and eighty,

1758
01:45:12,573 --> 01:45:15,373
Speaker 2: and I can tell you that we'll be dealing with

1759
01:45:15,413 --> 01:45:19,133
Speaker 2: the Australian election and there's plenty to this, plenty to discuss.

1760
01:45:19,773 --> 01:45:23,213
Speaker 2: So until then, as usual, there is only one thing

1761
01:45:23,373 --> 01:45:26,213
Speaker 2: to say, thank you for listening, and we'll talk soon.

1762
01:45:34,093 --> 01:45:37,733
Speaker 1: Thank you for more from News Talks at b Listen

1763
01:45:37,813 --> 01:45:40,773
Speaker 1: live on air or online, and keep our shows with

1764
01:45:40,893 --> 01:45:44,013
Speaker 1: you wherever you go with our podcasts on iHeartRadio