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Speaker 1: So strange, possibly confusing messages coming from the police have

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Speaker 1: a retail crime. There's a directive to police staff that

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Speaker 1: tells them they will no longer be investigating shoplifting if

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Speaker 1: it's less than five hundred bucks. The retailers, upon hearing that,

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Speaker 1: want of word, of course with the Minister. Our Sunday

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Speaker 1: Kirschel is the chairperson of the Ministry of Justices Retail

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Speaker 1: Crime Group and is with a sunny.

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Speaker 2: Morning, very good morning, Mike.

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Speaker 1: Do you know what's going on? Have you got clarity

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Speaker 1: on this or not?

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Speaker 2: See this police infection was a bolt out of the

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Speaker 2: blue and retailers would be concerned by this, and I'm

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Speaker 2: looking to get clarity on this matter from the Police

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Speaker 2: indist and the Police Commissioner. You know, these policies have

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Speaker 2: already failed in America and the UK, where gangs of

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Speaker 2: shoplifters exploit similar policies to make illegal gains without consequences.

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Speaker 2: So I want the police to clarify their position. If

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Speaker 2: they have set limits as suggested in the news reports,

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Speaker 2: we will be advocating strongly that these are immediately removed

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Speaker 2: and a police adopted zero tool approach to retail crime.

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Speaker 1: This sort of goes against if it's true, this goes

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Speaker 1: against what you're working towards, doesn't it.

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Speaker 2: That's very true. You know, we thought we are making

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Speaker 2: a huge progress and these kind of instructions hinder the

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Speaker 2: work that we're doing. You know, getting on top of

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Speaker 2: the problems require the government adopter zero a tolerant response,

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Speaker 2: and the best deterrence for retail crime is having criminals

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Speaker 2: not they will be caught and face consequences for the crimes,

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Speaker 2: but giving them a free pass due to low thirshold

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Speaker 2: will involved in criminals and increase retail crime exactly.

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Speaker 1: Well, I just wonder what has been articulated is what

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Speaker 1: they do anyway, and it just happens to have leaked out.

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Speaker 1: In other words, if you report something worth a couple

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Speaker 1: hundred bucks, you kind of know they're not going to

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Speaker 1: look at it, don't you, rightly or wrongly?

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Speaker 2: Mike. We need to learn lessons. You know. Even in

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Speaker 2: the UK they have gone in the totally opposite direction

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Speaker 2: with a bill in the House of Commons right now

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Speaker 2: that would repeal low value shifting. Shoplifting defined as two

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Speaker 2: hundred pounds or less, which is biscally five hundred. New

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Speaker 2: Zealand a House of Lord's committee last November described this

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Speaker 2: as a tribalizing theft, and the UK government responded in

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Speaker 2: February doing what we thought police did here to treat

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Speaker 2: theft as theft. To be fair to the Police Commissioner

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Speaker 2: Richard Chambers, this smacks of policy by consent and that

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Speaker 2: is not his approach.

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Speaker 1: All right, Well, we'll stay on top of this and

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Speaker 1: see where we go. Sunny Kerschel, who's with the He's Chafferson,

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Speaker 1: the Ministry of Justice Retail Crime Group. I was told

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Speaker 1: this morning that we went to Mitchell and Mitchell quote

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Speaker 1: unquote is no longer doing interviews on the subject, which

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Speaker 1: I thought was ironic because I hadn't heard him interviewed

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Speaker 1: at all on the subject. But he will be presenting

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Speaker 1: himself tomorrow on this program. For more from the Mic

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Speaker 1: Asking Breakfast, listen live to news talks. It'd be from

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Speaker 1: six am weekdays, or follow the podcast on I heardredeo