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Speaker 1: There's something fundamentally wrong at New Zealand Health or Health

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Speaker 1: New Zealand. We seem to have a standoff, if not

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Speaker 1: a scrap, between the new commissioner and the management over

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Speaker 1: staff numbers in frontline hiring. So during internal briefing this week,

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Speaker 1: senior leadership, we're telling staff of a proposal to cut

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Speaker 1: four hundred and seventy specialists nearly fifteen hundred nurses. So

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Speaker 1: how is that possible when the promises there's no frontline cuts.

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Speaker 1: Lester Leviy is with us on this one.

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Speaker 2: Very good morning to you, Good morning way.

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Speaker 1: So in one of your texts quote there will be consequences.

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Speaker 1: No explanation can satisfy me. How could somebody even make

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Speaker 1: a slide like that. We're trying to do the opposite.

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Speaker 1: We're trying to strengthen the front line. I can't even

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Speaker 1: explain it to you. I mean, this is just so bizarre. So,

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Speaker 1: apart from that, thing's going well.

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Speaker 2: Well. As you know, Mike, Health New Zealand is in

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Speaker 2: crisis and there's a number of difficulties and one of

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Speaker 2: the issues is we need to get back to budget

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Speaker 2: and in doing so, we need to be more disciplined

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Speaker 2: than our spending, But I was very clear from the

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Speaker 2: upset that the clinical front line is immune will not

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Speaker 2: be reduced or cut. In fact, as we get our

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Speaker 2: finances and better shape on his strengthen our frontline. So yeah,

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Speaker 2: I found this totally unacceptable.

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Speaker 1: How does it happen given you know, I know anyone

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Speaker 1: who listens to this program knows the politicians know there

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Speaker 1: is no cutting to the front line, and yet they

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Speaker 1: busy themselves putting frontline at risk. Why do they do it?

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Speaker 2: Well, I mean, the front line wouldn't be at risklessyst

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Speaker 2: never happened because everything would have to come through mis commissioner.

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Speaker 2: But what really worries is that somebody would even think

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Speaker 2: about this, would actually develop a slide, would actually show

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Speaker 2: it in a meeting, and that people wouldn't shut that

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Speaker 2: down immediately. As soon as I heard about it, because

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Speaker 2: I've got a text from a senior doctor, I immediately

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Speaker 2: contacted the death executive and uptily shut it down. She

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Speaker 2: delegated that to a senior manager. We sent out a

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Speaker 2: message to the people who were in that meeting that

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Speaker 2: I regard it as not definitive enough for myself and

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Speaker 2: my fellow deputy commissions and all staff email out clarifying

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Speaker 2: a position very definitively. This is unacceptable. It's never going

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Speaker 2: to happen. But the fact that it did happen is

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Speaker 2: a deep councern. The fact that somebody even thought about

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Speaker 2: it and when it was raised, it wasn't shut down.

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Speaker 2: It's a deep concerned.

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Speaker 1: To me, why is Magiapa still in work?

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Speaker 2: Well, I'll get asked this question a lot. Look, we're

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Speaker 2: in a crisis at the moment, and we got all

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Speaker 2: hands to the pump. Now, change has already been made

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Speaker 2: in the executive leadership team, and at the moment she

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Speaker 2: is doing what you're asking her to do. She could

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Speaker 2: have and should have shut this down her Now I

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Speaker 2: have a very transparent working relationships. Unacceptable, it can't happen again,

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Speaker 2: But we do need to move forward. I guess, like

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Speaker 2: the realist things, if everybody who made a mistake was fired,

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Speaker 2: there'd be nobody left.

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Speaker 1: Well, especially it helps you.

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Speaker 2: It's a serious situation and it cannot happen again.

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Speaker 1: I just you haven't explained. I'm I'm not attacking you

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Speaker 1: because I'm defending you, because you've got a hell of

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Speaker 1: a job in front of you. But is this deliberate.

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Speaker 1: I mean, you can't not know that the front line

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Speaker 1: is safe. It's as clear as day, and you're presenting

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Speaker 1: an option to cut the front line. Is it deliberate?

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Speaker 1: Is it treasonous?

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Speaker 2: Well, I think to be fair to her, she was

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Speaker 2: also taken by surprise. But the reality is yes, it

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Speaker 2: is either resistance, reluctance, or sabotage. And it's a big

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Speaker 2: organization and people behave in different ways. We are looking

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Speaker 2: to get alignment, but moving forward, this behavior is just

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Speaker 2: totally unacceptable at all levels. I've had a very straight

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Speaker 2: conversation with her. She needs to sort out the consequences

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Speaker 2: because she is the employer and she will need to

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Speaker 2: do that.

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Speaker 1: Good on you, appreciate your time and don't envy your word.

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Speaker 1: Let's deleviy the Health New Zealand Commissioner. For more from

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Speaker 1: the Mic Asking Breakfast, listen live to news Talks at

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Speaker 1: b from six am weekdays, or follow the podcast on iHeartRadio.