1 00:00:05,320 --> 00:00:05,720 Speaker 1: Jyoda. 2 00:00:05,760 --> 00:00:09,040 Speaker 2: I'm Chelsea Daniels and this is the Front Page, a 3 00:00:09,119 --> 00:00:12,440 Speaker 2: daily podcast presented by the New Zealand Herald. 4 00:00:16,280 --> 00:00:19,840 Speaker 3: This week is Rape Awareness Week. In New Zealand. 5 00:00:20,400 --> 00:00:23,680 Speaker 2: One in three women and one in eight men experience 6 00:00:23,760 --> 00:00:25,200 Speaker 2: sexual violence. 7 00:00:24,800 --> 00:00:27,280 Speaker 3: At some stage in their lifetime. 8 00:00:27,800 --> 00:00:31,800 Speaker 2: Repeated surveys show that tens of thousands of New Zealanders 9 00:00:31,880 --> 00:00:36,480 Speaker 2: are experiencing this type of assault every year. So what's 10 00:00:36,520 --> 00:00:39,559 Speaker 2: being done to try and stop this violence? And are 11 00:00:39,600 --> 00:00:44,000 Speaker 2: those victims who are speaking up getting the justice they deserve. 12 00:00:44,479 --> 00:00:47,720 Speaker 2: Today on the Front Page, we're joined by clinical psychologist 13 00:00:47,840 --> 00:00:54,720 Speaker 2: and Help Executive director Catherine McPhillips to discuss this crisis. 14 00:01:00,000 --> 00:01:04,480 Speaker 2: Probably more people than we think who experience sexual violence 15 00:01:04,520 --> 00:01:07,040 Speaker 2: at some point in their lifetime. Right do you think 16 00:01:07,240 --> 00:01:11,000 Speaker 2: people would be surprised to learn just how many that is? 17 00:01:12,160 --> 00:01:13,319 Speaker 1: I mean some people wouldn't. 18 00:01:13,360 --> 00:01:17,000 Speaker 4: Some wouldn't of course, So those who've experienced themselves they 19 00:01:17,120 --> 00:01:19,640 Speaker 4: might be more aware of how common it is. Our 20 00:01:19,800 --> 00:01:22,959 Speaker 4: best research in New Zealand at the moment suggests that 21 00:01:23,040 --> 00:01:25,959 Speaker 4: it's around about one in three girls. 22 00:01:25,640 --> 00:01:27,320 Speaker 1: And one and twelve boys. 23 00:01:27,520 --> 00:01:30,120 Speaker 4: And that's just the start of it, of course, because 24 00:01:30,160 --> 00:01:32,759 Speaker 4: people are also accused or you know, sexual violence also 25 00:01:32,760 --> 00:01:36,520 Speaker 4: occurs when adults are the victims of that, so it 26 00:01:36,600 --> 00:01:39,440 Speaker 4: is very common, and so you know, those who experienced 27 00:01:39,440 --> 00:01:42,120 Speaker 4: it may understand how common it is, whereas those. 28 00:01:41,920 --> 00:01:42,959 Speaker 1: Who haven't may not. 29 00:01:43,280 --> 00:01:47,520 Speaker 2: And there's just so much stigma about speaking out about it. 30 00:01:47,560 --> 00:01:48,440 Speaker 3: But why is it so. 31 00:01:48,400 --> 00:01:51,360 Speaker 2: Important to have open discussions about this? And do you 32 00:01:51,360 --> 00:01:54,520 Speaker 2: think that that stigma is slowly but surely being put 33 00:01:54,560 --> 00:01:55,600 Speaker 2: by the wayside. 34 00:01:56,320 --> 00:01:58,200 Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean, look, there is a lot of stigma 35 00:01:58,240 --> 00:02:03,320 Speaker 4: because you know, those kind of ancient ideas or I 36 00:02:03,360 --> 00:02:05,920 Speaker 4: say ancient because you know they should be ancient, But 37 00:02:06,000 --> 00:02:07,880 Speaker 4: that idea is that it was up to a woman 38 00:02:08,080 --> 00:02:12,200 Speaker 4: always to stop a man's sexual advances to her, for 39 00:02:12,360 --> 00:02:16,320 Speaker 4: her to be pure or untainted or something. You know, 40 00:02:16,360 --> 00:02:19,400 Speaker 4: there was some kind of virtue in that scene for 41 00:02:19,440 --> 00:02:23,560 Speaker 4: a woman, and women have been blamed when they weren't 42 00:02:23,639 --> 00:02:25,959 Speaker 4: able to stop those advances. So I think that that's 43 00:02:26,000 --> 00:02:29,320 Speaker 4: where that stigma and shame kind of comes from historically, 44 00:02:29,520 --> 00:02:31,680 Speaker 4: and so we really need to talk about it because 45 00:02:31,720 --> 00:02:34,040 Speaker 4: we have to shift that stigma and shame to the 46 00:02:34,080 --> 00:02:36,640 Speaker 4: person who, you know, the person who's causing hearm, not 47 00:02:36,720 --> 00:02:39,639 Speaker 4: to the victim of that harm. And so we need 48 00:02:39,680 --> 00:02:42,760 Speaker 4: to have these conversations so that people who are victimized 49 00:02:42,880 --> 00:02:45,240 Speaker 4: can understand that they're not at fault and that the 50 00:02:45,400 --> 00:02:48,680 Speaker 4: people supporting them, so their families, partners, you know, their 51 00:02:48,680 --> 00:02:51,480 Speaker 4: community around them, also get to understand that it's not 52 00:02:51,560 --> 00:02:54,120 Speaker 4: appropriate to blame the victim for this, that we actually 53 00:02:54,160 --> 00:02:58,800 Speaker 4: need to be talking about how we stop accepting the 54 00:02:58,880 --> 00:03:02,440 Speaker 4: way that in particular, but you know, also men and 55 00:03:02,680 --> 00:03:06,400 Speaker 4: certainly rainbow groups are kind of sexualized. We need to 56 00:03:06,440 --> 00:03:08,440 Speaker 4: be holding those who cause harm to account. 57 00:03:08,520 --> 00:03:11,960 Speaker 2: And you're quite right those ancient ideas of sexual violence. 58 00:03:12,080 --> 00:03:14,200 Speaker 2: I mean, it's the old adage what were you wearing? 59 00:03:14,240 --> 00:03:15,040 Speaker 2: What was she wearing? 60 00:03:15,120 --> 00:03:15,520 Speaker 3: Kind of thing. 61 00:03:15,560 --> 00:03:19,560 Speaker 2: I remember seeing an amazing exhibition of people who had 62 00:03:19,600 --> 00:03:23,160 Speaker 2: submitted their clothes of what they actually were wearing, and 63 00:03:23,200 --> 00:03:26,360 Speaker 2: it was this incredible display of you know, the track 64 00:03:26,480 --> 00:03:29,880 Speaker 2: pants and mini skirts and all this kind of stuff. 65 00:03:30,120 --> 00:03:32,000 Speaker 3: It's kind of just getting rid of. 66 00:03:32,560 --> 00:03:36,040 Speaker 2: Those ideas and those ideals, totally getting rid of the 67 00:03:36,080 --> 00:03:39,160 Speaker 2: idea that there's some way in which people ask for 68 00:03:39,200 --> 00:03:42,040 Speaker 2: this to be done to them, and shifting it back 69 00:03:42,080 --> 00:03:46,040 Speaker 2: to actually is the responsibility of the person initiating that 70 00:03:46,160 --> 00:03:47,640 Speaker 2: behavior to not do it? 71 00:03:47,920 --> 00:03:52,440 Speaker 5: Yeah, the very sad. 72 00:03:52,560 --> 00:03:52,880 Speaker 1: Sorry. 73 00:03:52,920 --> 00:03:56,400 Speaker 5: That really struck me was that fifteen percent of the 74 00:03:56,480 --> 00:03:59,560 Speaker 5: victims of sexual violence thought it was a crime. The 75 00:03:59,600 --> 00:04:02,480 Speaker 5: other eighty five percent of the victims of sexual violence 76 00:04:02,760 --> 00:04:05,000 Speaker 5: didn't believe that what had happened to them was a crime. 77 00:04:06,400 --> 00:04:08,480 Speaker 6: Yeah, it stops in your tracks, doesn't it. And just 78 00:04:08,640 --> 00:04:13,080 Speaker 6: section six reporting to the police, based on non reporting estimates, 79 00:04:13,240 --> 00:04:17,719 Speaker 6: sexual offenses, ninety four percent was significantly more likely to 80 00:04:17,760 --> 00:04:21,440 Speaker 6: go unreported. So there are a whole lot of victims 81 00:04:21,440 --> 00:04:25,000 Speaker 6: out there who were just sitting with it. 82 00:04:29,360 --> 00:04:32,719 Speaker 2: I've found a number of stats that show that sexual 83 00:04:32,720 --> 00:04:35,719 Speaker 2: assault happens to a lot of New Zealanders every year. 84 00:04:35,800 --> 00:04:39,640 Speaker 2: One stat from help showed that between November twenty twenty 85 00:04:39,720 --> 00:04:43,880 Speaker 2: and November twenty twenty one, around seventy eight thousand New 86 00:04:43,960 --> 00:04:46,320 Speaker 2: Zealanders experienced sexual assault. 87 00:04:46,440 --> 00:04:48,400 Speaker 3: Have we seen that figure improve? 88 00:04:48,480 --> 00:04:48,800 Speaker 7: It all? 89 00:04:48,960 --> 00:04:50,760 Speaker 1: There's been some improvement. 90 00:04:51,160 --> 00:04:54,040 Speaker 4: You know, all of this research is retrospective and then 91 00:04:54,080 --> 00:04:56,240 Speaker 4: we kind of project that to go, well, this is 92 00:04:56,279 --> 00:04:58,320 Speaker 4: what might be happening now or what might happen in 93 00:04:58,320 --> 00:05:01,200 Speaker 4: the future. And so the retrospect to research with young 94 00:05:01,240 --> 00:05:04,400 Speaker 4: people tells us that we have got better with boys, 95 00:05:04,560 --> 00:05:07,160 Speaker 4: so there is less sexual abuse of boys. That's what 96 00:05:07,200 --> 00:05:09,720 Speaker 4: the research indicates, and I think we need to really 97 00:05:09,800 --> 00:05:13,680 Speaker 4: celebrate that because that you know, that's great, but we 98 00:05:13,760 --> 00:05:16,919 Speaker 4: also need to be spreading that out and seeing less 99 00:05:16,920 --> 00:05:18,920 Speaker 4: to girls and less to adults as. 100 00:05:18,760 --> 00:05:20,119 Speaker 1: Well, you know, and young people. 101 00:05:20,160 --> 00:05:24,320 Speaker 4: Young people are also targeted for sexual ones and so yes, 102 00:05:24,440 --> 00:05:26,880 Speaker 4: yes we've got some improvement, but we need to really 103 00:05:26,960 --> 00:05:29,680 Speaker 4: keep going and keep going as strong as we can to. 104 00:05:29,640 --> 00:05:30,560 Speaker 1: Stop this happening. 105 00:05:31,360 --> 00:05:33,800 Speaker 2: And speaking of those ages, you might have seen the 106 00:05:33,839 --> 00:05:37,560 Speaker 2: story from April about a German backpacker who was allegedly 107 00:05:37,640 --> 00:05:41,200 Speaker 2: gang raped in Central Auckland on New Year's Day. Three 108 00:05:41,240 --> 00:05:44,360 Speaker 2: men have been charged over that, and the alleged perpetrators 109 00:05:44,360 --> 00:05:47,960 Speaker 2: are aged between nineteen and twenty one. Do you see 110 00:05:47,960 --> 00:05:51,880 Speaker 2: any statistics around the ages of those who potentially do 111 00:05:52,040 --> 00:05:54,040 Speaker 2: these kind of crimes. 112 00:05:53,760 --> 00:05:57,240 Speaker 4: It's kind of variable really with the ages. There is 113 00:05:57,360 --> 00:06:03,479 Speaker 4: certainly some youth offending which occurs against children, which you know, 114 00:06:03,680 --> 00:06:08,480 Speaker 4: doesn't seem to necessarily persist into the young person's adulthood. 115 00:06:09,080 --> 00:06:13,000 Speaker 4: In terms of sexual violence against young people, certainly we 116 00:06:13,080 --> 00:06:16,119 Speaker 4: see that the vulnerability or the targeting of young people 117 00:06:16,200 --> 00:06:17,960 Speaker 4: is in that kind of sixteen to twenty four year 118 00:06:18,000 --> 00:06:20,640 Speaker 4: old age group where they're kind of out and about, 119 00:06:20,720 --> 00:06:24,159 Speaker 4: and so you know, there is a similarity. I think 120 00:06:24,279 --> 00:06:26,560 Speaker 4: when we see the ages of those who are who 121 00:06:26,600 --> 00:06:28,680 Speaker 4: are offending, it's the people that they're out and about 122 00:06:28,680 --> 00:06:31,400 Speaker 4: with or around, and so you know, that doesn't say 123 00:06:31,400 --> 00:06:33,839 Speaker 4: that it's just you know, young people in that early 124 00:06:33,880 --> 00:06:37,520 Speaker 4: twenties age at all. It goes on up, but certainly 125 00:06:37,520 --> 00:06:40,440 Speaker 4: it's who has access to you, really is who does 126 00:06:40,480 --> 00:06:42,720 Speaker 4: it to you, and so who is around. 127 00:06:42,400 --> 00:06:43,920 Speaker 1: You at those times. 128 00:06:44,520 --> 00:06:47,720 Speaker 2: I mentioned in our intro that men are impacted by 129 00:06:47,800 --> 00:06:49,960 Speaker 2: sexual assault as well, and I guess I bring that 130 00:06:50,040 --> 00:06:53,240 Speaker 2: up because it's really important to recognize that, isn't there 131 00:06:53,240 --> 00:06:56,400 Speaker 2: because there is more stigma around men being the victims 132 00:06:56,480 --> 00:06:57,720 Speaker 2: of this sort of crime. 133 00:06:58,160 --> 00:06:59,760 Speaker 3: Would you say that that's correct. 134 00:07:00,440 --> 00:07:02,560 Speaker 4: I think there's more stigma in some ways but not 135 00:07:02,640 --> 00:07:06,320 Speaker 4: in others. But absolutely yes, we must acknowledge and understand 136 00:07:06,400 --> 00:07:09,960 Speaker 4: the sexual offending that happens against men. It's a very 137 00:07:10,840 --> 00:07:15,600 Speaker 4: traumatizing experience for men as well, and so we certainly 138 00:07:15,640 --> 00:07:18,800 Speaker 4: need to be understanding that and attending to that. 139 00:07:18,920 --> 00:07:20,320 Speaker 1: Now prevention efforts as well. 140 00:07:30,560 --> 00:07:33,840 Speaker 2: One of the biggest issues, it seems that stops people 141 00:07:33,920 --> 00:07:38,120 Speaker 2: coming forward with sexual assault allegations. Is that judicial process 142 00:07:38,280 --> 00:07:41,240 Speaker 2: that can be quite traumatic, you know, having to relive 143 00:07:41,280 --> 00:07:44,760 Speaker 2: your experience to police, to lawyers, to a courtroom, facing 144 00:07:44,800 --> 00:07:48,000 Speaker 2: cross examination, things like that. What changes have you seen 145 00:07:48,160 --> 00:07:51,760 Speaker 2: in recent years to try and improve that process for victims. 146 00:07:52,040 --> 00:07:55,120 Speaker 4: Yeah, there's been quite a few changes. So there was 147 00:07:55,480 --> 00:07:59,800 Speaker 4: pilot courts in Auckland and Fugaday which involved training court staff, 148 00:08:00,040 --> 00:08:03,040 Speaker 4: training judges about the traumatization of victims and how to 149 00:08:03,080 --> 00:08:05,880 Speaker 4: work with them in ways which would not or would 150 00:08:06,000 --> 00:08:09,960 Speaker 4: retraumatize them less. So judges introducing themselves before the trial, 151 00:08:10,680 --> 00:08:12,920 Speaker 4: letting victims know that, you know, it was okay to 152 00:08:12,920 --> 00:08:14,440 Speaker 4: take a break if they need it. You know, that 153 00:08:14,560 --> 00:08:17,760 Speaker 4: kind of thing has been really helpful. We've had prosecution 154 00:08:17,920 --> 00:08:21,080 Speaker 4: guidelines in place of sexual violence for a few years now, 155 00:08:21,160 --> 00:08:24,040 Speaker 4: so prosecutors are more aware about again how to not 156 00:08:24,160 --> 00:08:28,320 Speaker 4: step into that retraumatizing victims. So that's been really helpful. 157 00:08:28,800 --> 00:08:33,040 Speaker 4: Lots of changes in police to interview people in ways 158 00:08:33,120 --> 00:08:37,920 Speaker 4: which are again less traumatizing, so asking people what happened 159 00:08:37,960 --> 00:08:40,760 Speaker 4: and then what happened and so helping the person to 160 00:08:40,800 --> 00:08:44,040 Speaker 4: sequence the events without suggestions from them if you like. 161 00:08:44,160 --> 00:08:46,319 Speaker 4: So that's you know, that helps a person's brain when 162 00:08:46,360 --> 00:08:50,439 Speaker 4: it's when the person is traumatized. So we've had specialist 163 00:08:50,559 --> 00:08:53,680 Speaker 4: adult sexual assault teams and police, so specialist people doing 164 00:08:53,720 --> 00:08:56,600 Speaker 4: the interviews as well as the investigations. So there has 165 00:08:56,679 --> 00:08:59,400 Speaker 4: been a lot of change, but we nowhere near where 166 00:08:59,400 --> 00:09:00,360 Speaker 4: we need to be yet. 167 00:09:00,640 --> 00:09:02,400 Speaker 3: What changes would you like to see? 168 00:09:02,559 --> 00:09:03,600 Speaker 1: So all sorts of things. 169 00:09:03,600 --> 00:09:05,440 Speaker 4: I mean, we'd like to change the fact finder in 170 00:09:05,440 --> 00:09:08,439 Speaker 4: the court to a judge and who trained jurists. Basically, 171 00:09:08,480 --> 00:09:13,240 Speaker 4: what happens now is that defense lawyers do their job 172 00:09:13,320 --> 00:09:15,920 Speaker 4: often by undermining the credibility of a victim and putting 173 00:09:15,920 --> 00:09:17,120 Speaker 4: it back on them, and. 174 00:09:17,600 --> 00:09:18,880 Speaker 1: That's just not helpful. 175 00:09:18,920 --> 00:09:22,280 Speaker 4: So we would rather have judges asking the questions necessary 176 00:09:22,400 --> 00:09:25,880 Speaker 4: and defense lawyers only asking those questions which were not 177 00:09:26,040 --> 00:09:30,000 Speaker 4: covered by the judge. So we'd like to see that change. 178 00:09:30,160 --> 00:09:34,160 Speaker 4: We'd like to see treatment courts, So these were explored 179 00:09:34,200 --> 00:09:37,680 Speaker 4: by the Law Commissions some years ago, where a person could, 180 00:09:38,120 --> 00:09:40,880 Speaker 4: if they paid guilty, could be assessed for treatment as 181 00:09:40,960 --> 00:09:46,600 Speaker 4: different to you know, an automatic assumption of a prison sentence. 182 00:09:46,960 --> 00:09:49,559 Speaker 4: The reason for this is that you know, many victims 183 00:09:49,559 --> 00:09:52,880 Speaker 4: come to us and say that they don't want the 184 00:09:52,920 --> 00:09:55,920 Speaker 4: person you know, hugely punished What they really want is 185 00:09:55,920 --> 00:09:57,839 Speaker 4: for them to never do it to anyone else again. 186 00:09:58,080 --> 00:10:01,680 Speaker 4: And so not everybody you know, are going to gain 187 00:10:01,720 --> 00:10:03,680 Speaker 4: from treatment, but many people can. 188 00:10:03,920 --> 00:10:05,520 Speaker 1: So we would like to see that change. 189 00:10:05,559 --> 00:10:08,120 Speaker 4: We think that that would bring more people to make 190 00:10:08,160 --> 00:10:10,760 Speaker 4: a complaint if they knew that the outcome that they 191 00:10:10,840 --> 00:10:13,720 Speaker 4: want was possible through the judicial system. 192 00:10:14,080 --> 00:10:17,520 Speaker 2: And other changes happening in regards to giving evidence in 193 00:10:17,640 --> 00:10:21,560 Speaker 2: court via AVL or perhaps in another room. 194 00:10:22,520 --> 00:10:25,079 Speaker 1: Yes, so there are changes. 195 00:10:25,320 --> 00:10:28,880 Speaker 4: Not all courts have the facilities across the country, but yes, 196 00:10:28,920 --> 00:10:31,200 Speaker 4: an expect you know that it should be possible to 197 00:10:31,200 --> 00:10:35,040 Speaker 4: give evidence by audiovisual link into the court. 198 00:10:35,520 --> 00:10:38,520 Speaker 1: So we've previously had that for children and it's been. 199 00:10:38,440 --> 00:10:42,480 Speaker 4: Possible under our law for quite some time, but there's 200 00:10:42,520 --> 00:10:46,720 Speaker 4: a shift towards that being more accepted as part of 201 00:10:46,720 --> 00:10:47,360 Speaker 4: the process. 202 00:10:50,559 --> 00:10:51,680 Speaker 3: Everyone was pretty outraged. 203 00:10:51,720 --> 00:10:53,480 Speaker 2: I think it's all that's been see on Instagram and 204 00:10:53,480 --> 00:10:54,640 Speaker 2: like social media this week. 205 00:10:54,720 --> 00:10:57,800 Speaker 3: We're fighting for justice and our rights. 206 00:10:57,920 --> 00:11:00,280 Speaker 7: Any of my girl Vlope brind if they went for 207 00:11:00,360 --> 00:11:02,840 Speaker 7: any of that shit, that guy wouldn't be a nine 208 00:11:02,840 --> 00:11:05,640 Speaker 7: month He'll be six free. Down here to protest the 209 00:11:05,679 --> 00:11:08,920 Speaker 7: sentence of Jaden Meyer, who raped and sexually assaulted five 210 00:11:09,000 --> 00:11:12,000 Speaker 7: teenagers when he was sixteen. He'll spends nine months on 211 00:11:12,040 --> 00:11:15,440 Speaker 7: home detention. A sentence, this advocate says, isn't enough. 212 00:11:16,040 --> 00:11:19,840 Speaker 3: I was absolutely outraged. It makes absolutely no sense. 213 00:11:20,120 --> 00:11:23,280 Speaker 2: It's pretty much telling the younger generation that it's okay 214 00:11:23,320 --> 00:11:24,839 Speaker 2: to do this, and you're going to get away with 215 00:11:24,679 --> 00:11:31,080 Speaker 2: a slap on the hand, Like, come on, Even when 216 00:11:31,120 --> 00:11:34,000 Speaker 2: you do go through the process, there's no guarantee of 217 00:11:34,040 --> 00:11:36,480 Speaker 2: what sort of punishment perpetrators will receive. 218 00:11:36,559 --> 00:11:38,120 Speaker 3: You mentioned that a little bit before. 219 00:11:38,600 --> 00:11:42,880 Speaker 2: How frustrated do you get when you see a judge's comments, 220 00:11:43,520 --> 00:11:46,440 Speaker 2: or maybe not even a judge's comments, a lawyer's comments 221 00:11:46,520 --> 00:11:51,239 Speaker 2: or comments from the courtroom that when putting down a sentence, 222 00:11:51,640 --> 00:11:55,200 Speaker 2: you hear the phrase it would ruin their future prospects. 223 00:11:55,559 --> 00:11:58,400 Speaker 4: Yes, that's very frustrating because they should have thought of 224 00:11:58,440 --> 00:12:02,319 Speaker 4: it before they took the action. Regardless of their future prospects, 225 00:12:02,360 --> 00:12:06,720 Speaker 4: they have already harmed the person's future prospects because, you know, 226 00:12:06,800 --> 00:12:09,760 Speaker 4: sex assault isn't it a one night thing. You know, 227 00:12:09,960 --> 00:12:12,560 Speaker 4: for many people, it's something that they carry through their 228 00:12:12,600 --> 00:12:15,360 Speaker 4: lives for a very long time, if not forever. Our 229 00:12:15,440 --> 00:12:21,400 Speaker 4: nervous systems don't really fully recover from being really harmed, 230 00:12:21,559 --> 00:12:24,640 Speaker 4: and you know, it can lead if you develop PTSD 231 00:12:24,760 --> 00:12:26,679 Speaker 4: from the assault, it can lead to you being more 232 00:12:26,800 --> 00:12:30,880 Speaker 4: likely to develop PTSD through your lifetime. Some people, you know, 233 00:12:31,679 --> 00:12:35,520 Speaker 4: respond by isolating themselves and not going out. And you know, 234 00:12:35,600 --> 00:12:37,640 Speaker 4: the more that you withdraw from the life and the 235 00:12:37,679 --> 00:12:40,480 Speaker 4: world and people, you know, the much narrower your whole 236 00:12:40,480 --> 00:12:43,240 Speaker 4: life is as you go forward. Other people might have 237 00:12:43,360 --> 00:12:46,839 Speaker 4: recurring anxiety or depression you know, through their lives. So 238 00:12:47,080 --> 00:12:49,600 Speaker 4: when you do this to somebody else, you alter the 239 00:12:49,640 --> 00:12:55,000 Speaker 4: trajectory of their life. So actually, if the trajectory of 240 00:12:55,040 --> 00:12:59,600 Speaker 4: your life is also altered, well that sounds like justice. 241 00:13:00,080 --> 00:13:05,320 Speaker 2: The government's currently working on to our DAKUDA, a twenty 242 00:13:05,360 --> 00:13:08,600 Speaker 2: five year National Strategy for the Prevention of Family and 243 00:13:08,640 --> 00:13:09,600 Speaker 2: Sexual violence. 244 00:13:09,679 --> 00:13:11,479 Speaker 3: Are you happy with how this is progressing. 245 00:13:12,440 --> 00:13:15,080 Speaker 4: Well, it's fantastic that there is a national strategy, and 246 00:13:15,120 --> 00:13:19,240 Speaker 4: it's fantastic that this government continued that strategy and kept 247 00:13:19,280 --> 00:13:23,079 Speaker 4: investing in that strategy. Of course, we like to see 248 00:13:23,120 --> 00:13:26,440 Speaker 4: everything move faster than it is, because twenty five years 249 00:13:26,559 --> 00:13:29,560 Speaker 4: is really not very long at all in terms of 250 00:13:29,920 --> 00:13:32,439 Speaker 4: you know, turning the tide on this kind of violence. 251 00:13:32,520 --> 00:13:35,440 Speaker 4: The strategy is for sexual violence and for what we 252 00:13:35,520 --> 00:13:39,920 Speaker 4: call family violence, and so certainly, you know, resources are 253 00:13:39,920 --> 00:13:43,440 Speaker 4: spread across those which slows things down. But I think 254 00:13:43,720 --> 00:13:46,080 Speaker 4: this is say, compared to Australia, which has a child 255 00:13:46,120 --> 00:13:49,640 Speaker 4: sexual abuse strategy just you know, on its own, we 256 00:13:49,679 --> 00:13:52,480 Speaker 4: would like to see more happening faster, but we're certainly 257 00:13:52,520 --> 00:13:56,079 Speaker 4: grateful for the work that is happening in that strategy. 258 00:13:56,120 --> 00:13:59,400 Speaker 4: So things like training are strate to try workers. You know, 259 00:14:00,000 --> 00:14:01,880 Speaker 4: thousands of people are going to be trained over the 260 00:14:01,960 --> 00:14:04,520 Speaker 4: next few years in terms of how to respond to 261 00:14:05,000 --> 00:14:07,000 Speaker 4: people who disclose sexual violence. 262 00:14:07,160 --> 00:14:08,160 Speaker 1: So that's a real win. 263 00:14:08,559 --> 00:14:12,400 Speaker 2: And I read a statistic that I found actually quite startling, 264 00:14:12,480 --> 00:14:14,920 Speaker 2: and you mentioned it in the beginning of our conversation. 265 00:14:15,160 --> 00:14:18,599 Speaker 2: One in four New Zealand girls may be sexually abused 266 00:14:18,640 --> 00:14:22,920 Speaker 2: before she turns sixteen, and around ninety percent of the 267 00:14:23,000 --> 00:14:26,440 Speaker 2: abuse will be done by someone she knows. Now, I 268 00:14:26,480 --> 00:14:30,480 Speaker 2: read this on the DREM section of the help website. 269 00:14:30,520 --> 00:14:32,640 Speaker 2: Can you tell me a little bit about this offshoot? 270 00:14:33,000 --> 00:14:34,760 Speaker 1: Yeah, So, DEARIM is. 271 00:14:34,760 --> 00:14:37,800 Speaker 4: A leadership program for young people who are interested in 272 00:14:37,920 --> 00:14:42,480 Speaker 4: ending sexual violence. So we work with them to look 273 00:14:42,520 --> 00:14:44,720 Speaker 4: at you know, to help them understand the ways they 274 00:14:44,760 --> 00:14:45,280 Speaker 4: can do that. 275 00:14:45,760 --> 00:14:47,560 Speaker 1: They get to do. 276 00:14:47,640 --> 00:14:51,680 Speaker 4: Projects which are their projects of how they would like 277 00:14:51,720 --> 00:14:54,280 Speaker 4: to do this. So one young woman did a podcast, 278 00:14:54,360 --> 00:14:58,640 Speaker 4: another young woman has led some actions or a petition 279 00:14:58,720 --> 00:15:03,040 Speaker 4: on consent law reform. They go into the university and 280 00:15:03,200 --> 00:15:06,160 Speaker 4: talk to counselors about what young people need in these situations. 281 00:15:06,200 --> 00:15:09,560 Speaker 4: So you know, a variety of different actions every year, 282 00:15:09,920 --> 00:15:13,160 Speaker 4: but it's kind of fostering their knowledge and their sense 283 00:15:13,240 --> 00:15:15,880 Speaker 4: of how they can participate in making this change in 284 00:15:15,920 --> 00:15:16,280 Speaker 4: the world. 285 00:15:16,360 --> 00:15:19,360 Speaker 1: They also have very flourishing social media. 286 00:15:19,160 --> 00:15:24,480 Speaker 4: So Instagram in particular, just spreading the messages really about 287 00:15:24,520 --> 00:15:26,640 Speaker 4: what needs to change to end sexual violence. 288 00:15:27,000 --> 00:15:29,400 Speaker 2: If there was one thing, Catherine, that you'd like any 289 00:15:29,440 --> 00:15:32,960 Speaker 2: political party to introduce as a policy to tackle this 290 00:15:33,200 --> 00:15:36,520 Speaker 2: issue in sexual violence and rape, what would it be. 291 00:15:36,520 --> 00:15:38,880 Speaker 4: To be honest, The one that's dearest to my heart 292 00:15:38,880 --> 00:15:42,960 Speaker 4: at the moment is the Justice Select Committee has looked 293 00:15:43,000 --> 00:15:47,000 Speaker 4: at how we stop children on the stand being accused 294 00:15:47,040 --> 00:15:50,920 Speaker 4: of having consented to sexual activity, and we're talking, you know, 295 00:15:51,000 --> 00:15:53,240 Speaker 4: children as young as five or six years old, you know, 296 00:15:53,320 --> 00:15:56,640 Speaker 4: being accused of that. So there is a bill looking 297 00:15:56,680 --> 00:15:59,480 Speaker 4: at that. At the moment, the government doesn't have that 298 00:15:59,680 --> 00:16:03,040 Speaker 4: in the stated plan to enact that bolt, to make 299 00:16:03,080 --> 00:16:06,680 Speaker 4: that bill into law. That bill would stop any child 300 00:16:06,840 --> 00:16:11,000 Speaker 4: under twelve being challenged about consent. But yeah, we'd really 301 00:16:11,080 --> 00:16:13,520 Speaker 4: like to see that fast tracted in as soon as possible, 302 00:16:13,560 --> 00:16:16,920 Speaker 4: because it's really quite an indictement on our society that 303 00:16:16,960 --> 00:16:20,720 Speaker 4: we challenge six year olds about having consented to sexual 304 00:16:20,760 --> 00:16:22,240 Speaker 4: things done to them by adults. 305 00:16:22,600 --> 00:16:24,320 Speaker 3: Thanks for joining us, Catherine. 306 00:16:24,440 --> 00:16:24,800 Speaker 1: Thank you. 307 00:16:28,360 --> 00:16:31,480 Speaker 2: That's it for this episode of the Front Page. You 308 00:16:31,520 --> 00:16:35,320 Speaker 2: can read more about today's stories and extensive news coverage 309 00:16:35,360 --> 00:16:39,360 Speaker 2: at enzadherld dot co dot nz. The Front Page is 310 00:16:39,400 --> 00:16:43,160 Speaker 2: produced by Ethan Sells and Richard Martin, who is also 311 00:16:43,320 --> 00:16:44,360 Speaker 2: our sound engineer. 312 00:16:44,880 --> 00:16:46,360 Speaker 3: I'm Chelsea Daniels. 313 00:16:46,960 --> 00:16:50,120 Speaker 2: Subscribe to The Front Page on iHeartRadio or wherever you 314 00:16:50,160 --> 00:16:53,960 Speaker 2: get your podcasts, and tune in tomorrow for another look 315 00:16:54,000 --> 00:16:55,280 Speaker 2: behind the headlines.