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Speaker 1: You're listening to a podcast from news talks it B.

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Speaker 1: Follow this and our wide range of podcasts now on iHeartRadio.

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Speaker 1: It's time for all the attitude, all the opinion, all

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Speaker 1: the information, all the debates of the sis, now the

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Speaker 1: Leighton Smith Podcast powered by news talks it B.

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Speaker 2: Welcome back to another replay from well, not twenty five,

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Speaker 2: actually from twenty twenty four, April twenty twenty four, in

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Speaker 2: fact that I'll explain in a second. But here we

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Speaker 2: are on New Year's Eve for twenty twenty six, So

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Speaker 2: we better start practicing saying twenty twenty six, because we

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Speaker 2: always foul up somewhere along the way in the broadcasting

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Speaker 2: field and keep calling it the year before. So New

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Speaker 2: Year's Eve, twenty twenty six. But I'm going back to

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Speaker 2: the documentary maker Martin Durkin, who produced The Great Global

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Speaker 2: Warming Swindle in two thousand and seven. Then, after seventeen

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Speaker 2: years more of predictions of the demand of the world

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Speaker 2: from all and sundry people who know better and people

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Speaker 2: who don't know any better, he released Climate the movie

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Speaker 2: The Cold Truth. Now I've chosen this even though it

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Speaker 2: breaches the time barrier, because things are moving at an

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Speaker 2: incredible pace and global warming and the end of the

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Speaker 2: world is in a nash heap at the moment. But

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Speaker 2: by utilizing facts, statistics, and some of the world's leading scientists,

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Speaker 2: Durkin shows why the science is still not settled at

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Speaker 2: this particular time. When this was released, un Climate official

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Speaker 2: warns only two years to save the world from environmental

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Speaker 2: crisis again. Now, if you've heard this discussion before with

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Speaker 2: mister Durkin, you'll know that it's very interesting and it's

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Speaker 2: worthy of your attention again, so enjoy. Martin Durkin has produced,

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Speaker 2: to directed, and executive produced hundreds hundreds of hours of

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Speaker 2: documentaries and television for broadcasters around the world, including Discovery,

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Speaker 2: National Geographic and many others. The company he founded and

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Speaker 2: ran for a while the single biggest producer of shows

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Speaker 2: for the Science Channel and Discovery Networks International. His various

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Speaker 2: documentaries have won many awards, and he has served on

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Speaker 2: the steering committee of the World Congress of Science Producers,

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Speaker 2: at the Edinburgh Television Festival, and as a judge for

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Speaker 2: the Bafter and Royal Television Society Awards. You have quite

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Speaker 2: a career behind you, and I think you have quite

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Speaker 2: a career still in front of you. Martin Durkin, it's

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Speaker 2: great to have you on the Latensmith podcast. Welcome to

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Speaker 2: New Zealand and beyond because we have listeners all over

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Speaker 2: the world.

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Speaker 3: Thank you so much. I don't know how much career

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Speaker 3: I good in front of me, but thank you so

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Speaker 3: much for that a pleasure.

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Speaker 2: I want to start with the movie that you produced

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Speaker 2: back in two thousand and seven, The Great Global Warming Swindle.

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Speaker 2: It was shown here eventually on Sky Television, a private channel,

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Speaker 2: and they chose a panel to discuss it afterwards. We

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Speaker 2: didn't watch it all together. We watched it individually. They

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Speaker 2: set us copies and then we met in a studio

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Speaker 2: and did the discussion. And we had a couple of

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Speaker 2: university scientists, a green Feace woman and one University of

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Speaker 2: Waikato lecturer who was on your teams, as was I,

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Speaker 2: I might add, and we had a bonfight. And I've

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Speaker 2: never seen it because I got on a plane the

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Speaker 2: next day and went overseas, so I haven't seen it.

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Speaker 2: But I was told, if I may say so, that

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Speaker 2: we won, but you got pillar reied for that. I

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Speaker 2: watched an interview today with now what's his name, Tony

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Speaker 2: only Tony tourney from the ABC in Australia. Who would

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Speaker 2: have viewed you are?

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Speaker 3: Yeah on that?

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Speaker 2: Do you remember that? How could you forget it? Yeah?

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Speaker 3: He came all the way to London to do it, lesson.

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Speaker 2: And he practiced his nastiness all the way, although I

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Speaker 2: think it comes fairly naturally to him. But you you

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Speaker 2: got pilloried there and you copped a lot of fleck elsewhere.

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Speaker 2: So how successful was swindle?

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Speaker 3: Well, it was unsuccessful in the sense that the climate

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Speaker 3: band ragon continued to roll on. But it taught me

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Speaker 3: a huge lesson. I mean, the story of the swindle

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Speaker 3: was really at sub dates back before that to nineteen

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Speaker 3: ninety seven. The head of signed at Channel four, Sarah Ramston,

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Speaker 3: the one for Sarah Ramsen, asked me to make a

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Speaker 3: series on environmentalism, which I hadn't given much thought to

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Speaker 3: before then, but had held in a certain amount of suspicion.

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Speaker 3: And making that series, I remember we decided not to

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Speaker 3: talk too much about Global one because we thought it

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Speaker 3: would that would peter out, that would be a skin

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Speaker 3: with Peter Aroud. Soon there'd been a few books sort

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Speaker 3: of saying this is nonsense, like my Lord Caldos, Malexana

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Speaker 3: and others, we thought this isn't gonna last, so we

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Speaker 3: won't cover this, but the critical but the series as

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Speaker 3: a whole was very critical of environmentalism. And back in

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Speaker 3: those days I was a Marxist, and my main feeling

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Speaker 3: about the vendor was was sort of posh anti capitalism. Know,

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Speaker 3: they didn't like development, they didn't like the eye they did.

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Speaker 3: What they hated about capitalism is not that it did

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Speaker 3: down the workers. What they seem to hate about capitalism

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Speaker 3: was that it raised them up and kind of you know,

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Speaker 3: made them prosperous and liberated them, and that that's what

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Speaker 3: seemed to irritate them.

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Speaker 2: Just just hold it there. Did you say that you

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Speaker 2: were a Marxist, Yes.

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Speaker 3: Way back way back when I was a dirty Marxist

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Speaker 3: who were terrible. I've been trying to deliver it down.

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Speaker 3: But back then I was a total lefty when I

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Speaker 3: started some of criticized in Greens.

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Speaker 2: How did you become a Marxist in the first place.

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Speaker 3: I think I was when I was at when I

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Speaker 3: was sort of, you know, fifteen years old. It was

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Speaker 3: the It was a kind of fashionable, wonderful, romantic thing

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Speaker 3: to do. I think as a in fact, looking back,

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Speaker 3: I think it might have been a snobby thing to

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Speaker 3: do because I had I came from a working class

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Speaker 3: northern background. But you know, my family were I was

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Speaker 3: the youngest, and there all good university and all that

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Speaker 3: kind of thing, and it was, you know, Marxists were

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Speaker 3: poets and artists and all this kind of thing, and

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Speaker 3: so it was this kind of tabby, romantic thing to

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Speaker 3: get engaged in. And so I started doing all that

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Speaker 3: sort of stuff. And then I started to grow up,

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Speaker 3: and I in my twenties and in my early thirties,

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Speaker 3: I made partly looking at the Greens. I made a

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Speaker 3: great change thinking, you know, this is absolutely the politics

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Speaker 3: are app ghastly and politics are wrong. And that was

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Speaker 3: the beginning of my transformation into it my current state

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Speaker 3: of being a sort of libertarian type.

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Speaker 2: So now you're a libertarian type.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, Now I'm very very fervently anti artist, very fervently.

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Speaker 3: I think my whole notion of capitalism is who's undergode

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Speaker 3: profound transformation? Now I think it's really it was a

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Speaker 3: working class revolution. I think working ordinary, working class people

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Speaker 3: love capitalism for obvious reasons, and that's why you always,

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Speaker 3: you know, you don't find working class Americans building rafts

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Speaker 3: on Florida beaches in order to get to Cuba. You

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Speaker 3: don't find them working class people trying to get from

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Speaker 3: South Korea to North Korea or jump over the Berlin

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Speaker 3: Wall to go east. Always you find ordinary people trying

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Speaker 3: to get to the most advanced industrial countries, because that's

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Speaker 3: you know, where you know the potential is to prosper

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Speaker 3: and to be free and to get rich and out fun.

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Speaker 3: That's why. But it's that oddly enough, I realized why

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Speaker 3: green anti capitalists hate capitalism. There is a profound snobbery

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Speaker 3: in socialism in general, I think, but in green socialism

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Speaker 3: it's really powerful kind of misanthropy and snobbery. And that's

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Speaker 3: what I learned when I was making that series in

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Speaker 3: nineteen ninety seven. That's why I say, in a sense

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Speaker 3: the story started there.

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Speaker 2: Sunny about that because my life changed course in ninety

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Speaker 2: seven as well, And I said, as a new story.

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Speaker 3: So where did you start politically and where did you

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Speaker 3: end up?

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Speaker 2: You remember Robert Menzies, Prime Minister of Australia.

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Speaker 3: I don't remember Sir Robert.

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Speaker 2: Sir Robert Menzies, who dored the Queen became the prime

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Speaker 2: Minister of Australia. He was a conservative, a very strong conservative,

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Speaker 2: very loyal to the Royal family and to the Commonwealth.

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Speaker 2: A man of some considerable stature. If we had anybody

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Speaker 2: who was you could liken to Churchill, it would be Mensies.

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Speaker 2: He was a brigant speaker, he was a lawyer, and

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Speaker 2: he was a great credit to Australia. Well, the reason

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Speaker 2: I went into that little spiel is because I remember

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Speaker 2: when I was in my teens and his book came out.

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Speaker 2: He'd retired. His book came out. It was called Afternoon Light,

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Speaker 2: and it was in Graham's bookshop in Sydney, and they

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Speaker 2: had a big, almost lifelike cardboard cutout of him to

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Speaker 2: launch and promote the book. And for whatever reason, when

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Speaker 2: I asked when they finished the promotion, they said I

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Speaker 2: could come and get it and take it home. And

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Speaker 2: I adored that man. He he was is close to

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Speaker 2: an idol, a political idol that I've ever had, maybe

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Speaker 2: until fairly recently actually, But I never waivered. I've been conservative,

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Speaker 2: if you like. But my but my I suppose my

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Speaker 2: anchor is freedom. That's the first thing that comes to

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Speaker 2: mind when I when I consider what it is it's

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Speaker 2: important to me freedom. Now you're interviewing me, and I'm

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Speaker 2: supposed to viewing you.

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Speaker 3: That's a good anchor.

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Speaker 2: Let me get a grip on you just a little

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Speaker 2: further than what's your take on Trump.

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Speaker 3: I'll know about Trump, but I really approve of anti

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Speaker 3: establishment politicians in general. I mean, I could, you know,

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Speaker 3: make a long list of things I would disapprove of

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Speaker 3: about Trump, But I don't want to do that because

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Speaker 3: I like rising to the defense of Trump, because I

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Speaker 3: like the people who like Trump, if you know what

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Speaker 3: I mean. And I like the fact that I I

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Speaker 3: like the fact that someone is rattling the cage of

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Speaker 3: the people. Uh, his cage is being rattled by Trump. Sorry,

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Speaker 3: that's a torture sentence, if you know what I mean. So,

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Speaker 3: if I could pick someone to play the role that

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Speaker 3: Trump is playing in terms of waging war on the

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Speaker 3: blog of the swamp, however however we might describe it,

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Speaker 3: I might have picked someone else in an ideal world.

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Speaker 3: But nevertheless, we've got Trump, and I feel like I

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Speaker 3: need to defend him.

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Speaker 2: I think that's very about you. I think that's very amiable.

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Speaker 2: I mean, I picked him to win, and everybody laughed

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Speaker 2: at me that I don't laugh anymore, and I'm rooting

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Speaker 2: for him like you wouldn't believe. I want to be

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Speaker 2: an American and be able to vote. Yeah, yeah, because

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Speaker 2: I sincerely believe that it's not just America at stake,

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Speaker 2: it's the rest of us as well.

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Speaker 3: Oh yes, I mean I think I agree with you.

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Speaker 3: I think we're we're engaged in the most enormous global struggle.

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Speaker 3: I mean, it haunts me through almost every day. I mean,

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Speaker 3: I can't believe we're in the times that we're in,

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Speaker 3: and I don't believe that people understand the nature of

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Speaker 3: the struggle that we're in.

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Speaker 2: Tell me why, you why they don't understand?

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Speaker 3: Well, Partly, and this is actually it's a book I'm

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Speaker 3: writing at the moment. Partly is the nature of the

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Speaker 3: enemy is so ill defined. You know, we call it

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Speaker 3: the blog. I mean that the very name, you know,

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Speaker 3: reflects the fact that we don't we're not understanding it properly.

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Speaker 3: Or the swamp, you know, they're both so vague. And

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Speaker 3: when we do try to define the blob of the swamp,

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Speaker 3: of the establishment, I think we sometimes think we call it,

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Speaker 3: you know, the technocracy or the elite. I don't think

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Speaker 3: we realize the full power of the thing that we're

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Speaker 3: talking about. I think it's an entire social class that

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Speaker 3: we're fighting. It doesn't we don't under standard yet as

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Speaker 3: a social class, but I think we should. Some writers have,

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Speaker 3: some writers historically refer to the new class. Very few

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Speaker 3: people have come across the term the new class. But

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Speaker 3: I think it is an entire class of people, and

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Speaker 3: it has grown in size and power enormously over the

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Speaker 3: course of the twentieth century, and it now constitutes the

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Speaker 3: ruling class. And the great myth I think is that

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Speaker 3: we live in a capitalist society. I think it's barely capitalists. Actually,

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Speaker 3: you know, in France the state council sixty fifty six

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Speaker 3: percent of GDP or something like that. In Western countries,

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Speaker 3: I think, you know, can barely be defined as capitalists

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Speaker 3: these days, and the ruling class most certainly is not capitalistic,

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Speaker 3: despite what the market the markis say. You know, if

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Speaker 3: if capitalists were the effect of ruling class in Western society,

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Speaker 3: access would be extraordinarily low. It would be we have

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Speaker 3: very little regulation. That's clearly not the case. I think

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Speaker 3: the difficulty is with on this dates back to the

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Speaker 3: First World War for a lot of Western countries, there

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Speaker 3: was a gigantic expansion of the state in the state

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Speaker 3: resumed control of education and pensions, and you know, goodness

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Speaker 3: knows what else, and that plunged it up into existence

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Speaker 3: a new class of people who relied on the state

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Speaker 3: for their income and whose jobs would find by the states,

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Speaker 3: not just directly in the public sector, but in the

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Speaker 3: publicly funded. Are some science establishments, the education establishments, and

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Speaker 3: so on. All those people, I think they often university educated.

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Speaker 3: That roughly what we were termed the intelligentia, and the

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Speaker 3: entire intelligentsia in the West, I think is don't not

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Speaker 3: think it. So it's quite clear it's very pro state

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Speaker 3: because it sees its interest entirely aligned with the state.

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Speaker 3: For many of them that get their incomes from the state,

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Speaker 3: the state reflects their disdain for the market. Many intellectual

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Speaker 3: try to struggle in the market to earn any money

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Speaker 3: in the field that the market doesn't value them enough,

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Speaker 3: and the state flatters them with jobs that the market

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Speaker 3: wouldn't give them. And so we have an entire class

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Speaker 3: of people, very large and hugely powerful, that wants to

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Speaker 3: see the power of the state extended, and they will

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Speaker 3: promote issues which they think will do that, and they

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Speaker 3: don't sit down and plan this, but it has kind

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Speaker 3: of organically emerged that way. You know, they have their

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Speaker 3: class interests are to see the state empowered and larger

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Speaker 3: and better funded. And it's they who love lockdowns. It's

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Speaker 3: they who in Europe love the EU because he was

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Speaker 3: an expression of their power, and as they who really

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Speaker 3: embrace the climate alarm because the climes alarm is based

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Speaker 3: on a disdain for free market activity industrial capitalism. And

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Speaker 3: you know, the solution to the climate crisis is also

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Speaker 3: always an extension of state power. So I think what

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Speaker 3: we're seeing, not only in the climate issue but with

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Speaker 3: other issues is a huge effectively class struggle to determine

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Speaker 3: the nature of the society that we live in. And

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Speaker 3: unfortunately we haven't properly defined and identified the enemy enough.

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Speaker 3: And I'm talking about the rest of us, normal people

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Speaker 3: with normal jobs, you know, working class people, commercial, middle

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Speaker 3: class people. And it's a huge suspicion that that's what's

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Speaker 3: going on. And you can see in America, you know,

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Speaker 3: the ordinary people in America have an enormous antipathy towards

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Speaker 3: New York intellectuals, and you know, that that sort of class.

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Speaker 3: But they the nature of the beast is cloudy, you know,

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Speaker 3: it's sort of a black, smoky thing that they're fighting,

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Speaker 3: and the book that I'm writing is trying to identify

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Speaker 3: it more clearly so that we can engage in the

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Speaker 3: struggle successfully.

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Speaker 2: Let me just raise a point that you said you

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Speaker 2: made a reference to New York intellectuals. Are there any

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Speaker 2: intellectuals left in New York?

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Speaker 3: Well, I mean, if you define, I mean, I think

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Speaker 3: intellectuals and people who are clever and sensible, flat and oxymoron.

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Speaker 3: So I think by the intelligentia, I mean people who

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Speaker 3: were well, you know, it's basically sprawling category. But most

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Speaker 3: a lot of people who work in the media, especially

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Speaker 3: in the kind of factual areas of the media, of

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Speaker 3: the education system, lawyers who work for local government are

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Speaker 3: clang those and that sort of thing. That's kind of

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Speaker 3: how I think of as the intelligencia and the intelligencia

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Speaker 3: I mean on an intelligencia talk more rubbish than any Yes, yes,

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Speaker 3: indeed quite large margin.

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Speaker 2: I had a lot of people right to me and

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Speaker 2: call me and ask me please to interview you on

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Speaker 2: the new documentary, And that's what we're supposed to be

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Speaker 2: here doing.

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Speaker 3: Learn.

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Speaker 2: I thought we'd probably get onto this line of discussion

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Speaker 2: when we run out of documentary to talk about. But

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Speaker 2: it's been reversed, and so central bank central bank digital currencies.

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Speaker 2: What do you think of them?

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Speaker 3: Well, I think that's another is where you can see

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Speaker 3: clearly where the line is divided on the patterns of

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Speaker 3: where one stands on issues is so interesting because by

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Speaker 3: and large, bitin for example, if you have someone who's

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Speaker 3: progressed you wanted to leave the European Union, you'll they'll

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Speaker 3: also be suspicious of digital currencies. They will also be

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Speaker 3: They're likely to be skeptical about climates, They're likely to

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Speaker 3: be anti lockdown. You know, there is a real all

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Speaker 3: of these issues are really part of the same struggle.

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Speaker 3: We shouldn't really think of them as separate things at all.

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Speaker 3: And currency is you know, a free Even before digital currency,

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Speaker 3: we should have been sussess ourselves against state control of currencies,

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Speaker 3: state monopoly of currencies. Actually, I mean higher We had

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Speaker 3: a great book on this many years ago, de nationalization

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Speaker 3: of currency, because that goes to the core of our

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Speaker 3: free ability to exchange with each other and deal with

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Speaker 3: each other, and buy and sell with each other, you know,

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Speaker 3: freely on the idea that the government should determine the

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Speaker 3: means of that exchange is really we should have regarded

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Speaker 3: as a wicked and dangerous thing from the outset, which

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Speaker 3: it was. They have systematically debased currency and you know,

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Speaker 3: wickedly for wherever they could, and a digital currency, of course,

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Speaker 3: is a huge step in their favor to control not

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Speaker 3: not just currency but us, you know, the ability to

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Speaker 3: see what we're doing and understand what we're doing. I mean,

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Speaker 3: it's absolutely that that is that state control digital currency

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Speaker 3: I think obviously a sign for hope, stuff like bitcoin

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Speaker 3: and other forms of cryptocurrency which you know, can somehow

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Speaker 3: evade state control. But I don't think the ultimately it

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Speaker 3: will be a technical solution. Ultimately, I think it will

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Speaker 3: have to be platal on because they will find a

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Speaker 3: way of getting their claws into bitcoin. They will find

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Speaker 3: a way of you know. And also currency really needs

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Speaker 3: to be out in the open to work properly. You

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Speaker 3: need to be people have, you know, people freely launching

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Speaker 3: currencies and saying this is a really stable one, this

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Speaker 3: is the one you should use. You know, there should

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Speaker 3: be competition between currencies for our favor, and you can't

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Speaker 3: have that when they're illicitus and in the shadows. So

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Speaker 3: I don't think you can successfully have a free, non

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Speaker 3: government controlled currency while the government is still passing laws

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Speaker 3: against it. So I think that that needs to be

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Speaker 3: a political struggle, both against digital currency and against state

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Speaker 3: control of the currency.

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Speaker 2: Well well said what, I quote you something from the

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Speaker 2: twelfth of August of twenty fifteen. We're delighted to announce

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Speaker 2: that the speaker at August's Future Freedom event will be

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Speaker 2: the TV producer and documentary film director dubbed the Michael

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Speaker 2: Moore of the Right. Then goes into some of the

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Speaker 2: work that you did, and of course they are speaking

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Speaker 2: about you. At the bottom it says, please note this

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Speaker 2: event for which this was an invitation. This event is

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Speaker 2: for under thirties. Under thirty still savable in this day

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Speaker 2: and age.

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Speaker 3: Josh, now you're provoking me to be pessimistic. I think

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Speaker 3: we're coming to such a period of crisis. I mean

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Speaker 3: things of the funny thing is about the new class

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Speaker 3: room class is that it is it's got a certain

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Speaker 3: lemming streak about it that you know, it will tax us,

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Speaker 3: it will regulate us, it will carry on to it

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Speaker 3: will talk you know, net zero and all the rest

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Speaker 3: of it, so far that we end up in a

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Speaker 3: state of total crisis. It can't stop itself. It's inconsonant,

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Speaker 3: and it's desire to spend public money, it's absolutely insatiable,

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Speaker 3: and its desire to tax us. So I wonder whether

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Speaker 3: it will come to the stage where the it's control

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Speaker 3: of ideology, because it controls ideology, you know, to an

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Speaker 3: extraordinary extent through its control of the schools, universities, large

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Speaker 3: suades of the media. You know, it's grip is really powerful,

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Speaker 3: and as I've discovered, it is also quite powerful on

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Speaker 3: social media as well, social media platforms. But I think

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Speaker 3: that that that comes to a point where things are

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Speaker 3: crumbling to such an extent in economic terms that maybe,

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Speaker 3: you know, it's just that the damn edifice collapses. I'm

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Speaker 3: hoping that might happen behind you know, it's a it's

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Speaker 3: a vague hope. But youngsters, you know, you know, there

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Speaker 3: are all too few youngsters who I think appreciate the need,

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Speaker 3: and they're suffering enormously from it. In Britain, young people

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Speaker 3: struggle to get a job. They you know, mostly can't

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Speaker 3: afford to get on the house owning property ladder. So

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Speaker 3: they're suffering enormously, but they don't understand. Why. What do

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Speaker 3: you think.

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Speaker 2: I don't think it's restricted just to where you are

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Speaker 2: in Britain. It's it's pretty much everywhere. Young people here

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Speaker 2: and we've got some in our family. We've also got

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Speaker 2: a couple in London who just managed to scrape up

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Speaker 2: enough to buy themselves an apartment. But they did it

390
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Speaker 2: and they stretched beyond belief now but here, but they're

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Speaker 2: not being they're not being treated as well as I mean,

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Speaker 2: you've got to have a it's been changing a little bit,

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Speaker 2: but the amount do you need for a deposit is

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Speaker 2: much higher than it should be. And you know, we're

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Speaker 2: talking minimum of a couple of hundred thousand and for

396
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Speaker 2: somebody who wants to build their nest and is prepared

397
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Speaker 2: to work their guts out to do it, it's going

398
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Speaker 2: to take them a long time to get that much

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Speaker 2: money together.

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Speaker 3: But let me transit to sorry, do you think that

401
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Speaker 3: they're starting to see through the BS because obviously one

402
00:24:43,773 --> 00:24:46,333
Speaker 3: trick that the socialists have always used is that you know,

403
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Speaker 3: they will implement policies, and I don't mean just people

404
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Speaker 3: who call themselves socialists. I mean people who you know,

405
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Speaker 3: the Conservative Party, which is effectively a green socialist party.

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Speaker 3: They create enormous problems, but then you know that the

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Speaker 3: socials will say, oh, well, this is wicked capitalism and

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Speaker 3: we need higher taxes and more regulation in order to

409
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Speaker 3: cope with it. You know, they create the problems and

410
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Speaker 3: then say more of their their nonsense is the solution

411
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Speaker 3: of the problem. Do you think I mean our kids

412
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Speaker 3: in New Zealand started to see through that, or.

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Speaker 2: Only in certain quarters, not across the board. I think

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Speaker 2: the simplest way to put it is that woke rules.

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Speaker 3: Oh yeah, if.

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Speaker 2: You stick your neck out, which I love doing. But

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Speaker 2: if you stick your neck out, then you're likely to

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Speaker 2: get it hit with h hit with something unpleasant. The

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Speaker 2: other the other question, the other question I wanted to

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Speaker 2: put to you is democracy. Do you live in a democracy?

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Speaker 3: It has the form of a democracy, but not the content,

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Speaker 3: is what I'd say. We have all the trappings, all

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Speaker 3: the you know, we go through all the faster, the

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Speaker 3: elections and so on, but in effect it's they've emptied

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Speaker 3: it out very successfully, and so, for example, the vast

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Speaker 3: majority of people in Britain, my guest would be New

427
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Speaker 3: Zealand too, because obviously we're kind of, you know, effectively cousin.

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Speaker 3: I think that the green stuff is absolutely nonsense. All

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Speaker 3: the green agenda is absolutely garbage. That you know, when

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Speaker 3: the Greens stand for election, they can only get one

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Speaker 3: MP elected in Brighton, which is a bit eccentric, you know,

432
00:26:26,573 --> 00:26:28,853
Speaker 3: the out of six hundred MPs and get one elected.

433
00:26:28,933 --> 00:26:32,253
Speaker 3: And yet and in fact, in surveys of especially working

434
00:26:32,253 --> 00:26:38,413
Speaker 3: class people support for climate green stuff that zero is

435
00:26:38,453 --> 00:26:41,533
Speaker 3: absolutely statistically there are so few people who counts of zero.

436
00:26:43,933 --> 00:26:47,413
Speaker 3: But when it comes to actual government, you can't find

437
00:26:47,453 --> 00:26:49,533
Speaker 3: a major political party that isn't fully signed up to

438
00:26:49,573 --> 00:26:52,853
Speaker 3: the green agenda. So you know, the views of the

439
00:26:52,853 --> 00:26:55,493
Speaker 3: great majority of people are not at all reflected in

440
00:26:55,533 --> 00:26:59,333
Speaker 3: the political class that governs. Likewise, if you ask most people,

441
00:26:59,533 --> 00:27:02,413
Speaker 3: they don't think that the country should be in such

442
00:27:02,533 --> 00:27:06,253
Speaker 3: gigantic amounts of debt. They don't think that debasement of

443
00:27:06,293 --> 00:27:08,853
Speaker 3: currency is wise. They don't think all sorts of things

444
00:27:09,093 --> 00:27:14,373
Speaker 3: that have been pursued relentlessly by every political party and power.

445
00:27:14,773 --> 00:27:17,493
Speaker 3: So I think, to answer your question, I think we've

446
00:27:17,493 --> 00:27:20,813
Speaker 3: got what looks like a democracy, but in fact is

447
00:27:20,893 --> 00:27:23,853
Speaker 3: the rule of the New class that sort of covers,

448
00:27:23,853 --> 00:27:28,053
Speaker 3: it covers its rule with you know, a few shreds

449
00:27:28,253 --> 00:27:30,093
Speaker 3: of democratic looking stuff.

450
00:27:31,653 --> 00:27:35,973
Speaker 2: Very interesting. I think that just around the picture we

451
00:27:36,293 --> 00:27:39,573
Speaker 2: are still waiting to see where things where things go.

452
00:27:40,133 --> 00:27:42,533
Speaker 2: But being a country of just over five million, just

453
00:27:43,973 --> 00:27:49,733
Speaker 2: it's amazing the amount of volatility that exists and has

454
00:27:49,773 --> 00:27:53,773
Speaker 2: existed over the over the last few years with regard

455
00:27:53,893 --> 00:27:58,213
Speaker 2: to politics and who's prepared to who's prepared to stoop

456
00:27:58,693 --> 00:28:02,733
Speaker 2: and kiss the foot of the of the appropriate leader.

457
00:28:04,973 --> 00:28:08,493
Speaker 3: So you've had, I mean, you have the most terrible lockdow,

458
00:28:08,613 --> 00:28:11,853
Speaker 3: didn't you. I mean, that's just notorious.

459
00:28:11,893 --> 00:28:13,973
Speaker 2: While it was the longest longest in the world.

460
00:28:15,013 --> 00:28:17,973
Speaker 3: There must be some kickback against that.

461
00:28:17,733 --> 00:28:22,533
Speaker 2: There has been at the election last year. They paid

462
00:28:22,573 --> 00:28:26,613
Speaker 2: the price, but you you still have trouble. You still

463
00:28:26,653 --> 00:28:29,893
Speaker 2: have trouble convincing people how stupid they were increasing the

464
00:28:30,333 --> 00:28:33,453
Speaker 2: national debt, the government debt from five billion to one

465
00:28:33,533 --> 00:28:39,293
Speaker 2: hundred billion just for starters. Now that's small, small money

466
00:28:39,613 --> 00:28:43,813
Speaker 2: compared to Britain or even Australia, but for us it's

467
00:28:43,853 --> 00:28:46,013
Speaker 2: a heck of a lot. There's a lot of haulback

468
00:28:46,053 --> 00:28:48,653
Speaker 2: to be done before we can start start putting one

469
00:28:48,653 --> 00:28:51,853
Speaker 2: foot in front of the other. So at this at

470
00:28:51,853 --> 00:28:54,653
Speaker 2: this point, if you don't mind, I'd like to. I

471
00:28:54,693 --> 00:29:00,253
Speaker 2: would like to talk about the movie because I watched

472
00:29:00,293 --> 00:29:05,533
Speaker 2: it only yesterday for the first time I had it available,

473
00:29:05,613 --> 00:29:07,693
Speaker 2: but knowing that we were going to be talking, I

474
00:29:07,733 --> 00:29:10,693
Speaker 2: wanted to wait until closer to the time before I

475
00:29:10,733 --> 00:29:14,493
Speaker 2: watched it. And guess what I did today. I watched

476
00:29:14,533 --> 00:29:18,093
Speaker 2: it again, and I have to say, it's an extremely

477
00:29:18,293 --> 00:29:24,733
Speaker 2: impective documentary and I failed to see where anybody was

478
00:29:26,053 --> 00:29:31,293
Speaker 2: who believes in honesty could try and shred it. But

479
00:29:31,373 --> 00:29:32,573
Speaker 2: there are those people, of course.

480
00:29:33,133 --> 00:29:37,253
Speaker 3: Yeah, the thank you for saying that. I'm very trying

481
00:29:37,293 --> 00:29:42,613
Speaker 3: to be. We try to keep it really simple. We

482
00:29:42,693 --> 00:29:46,693
Speaker 3: try to keep the science to very very mainstream science

483
00:29:46,773 --> 00:29:52,013
Speaker 3: that wasn't really it couldn't sensibly be challenged. So because

484
00:29:52,053 --> 00:29:54,413
Speaker 3: the odd thing is, and you can find this if

485
00:29:54,413 --> 00:30:00,733
Speaker 3: you read Stephen Cohan's One Little book Unsettled, that their science,

486
00:30:00,813 --> 00:30:04,693
Speaker 3: their data doesn't support this nonsense. You don't have to

487
00:30:04,733 --> 00:30:07,173
Speaker 3: go and find some wacko scientists who's coming up with

488
00:30:07,213 --> 00:30:11,373
Speaker 3: the exchange theory in order to attack the notion of

489
00:30:11,373 --> 00:30:14,333
Speaker 3: a beatle to attack the climate's alarm. None of the

490
00:30:14,453 --> 00:30:18,973
Speaker 3: data supported that's the weird thing about the story, and

491
00:30:19,013 --> 00:30:21,253
Speaker 3: so that's reflected a little in the film.

492
00:30:21,293 --> 00:30:24,853
Speaker 2: I Think I want to read you something that was

493
00:30:24,893 --> 00:30:30,813
Speaker 2: published on in September of twenty nineteen, written by doctor

494
00:30:30,813 --> 00:30:35,093
Speaker 2: Paul Rossiter for What's Up with That. Like many other

495
00:30:35,133 --> 00:30:39,653
Speaker 2: ethical and well meaning scientists, I am becoming increasingly frustrated

496
00:30:39,693 --> 00:30:43,253
Speaker 2: with the climate science debate, and he's got science in quotes.

497
00:30:43,733 --> 00:30:47,333
Speaker 2: By resorting to rigorous measurement and analysis of real data,

498
00:30:47,413 --> 00:30:51,133
Speaker 2: we have a reasonable but perhaps naive expectation that the

499
00:30:51,213 --> 00:30:54,453
Speaker 2: facts will determine the outcome of the AGW argument. And yet,

500
00:30:55,293 --> 00:30:58,293
Speaker 2: despite the huge amount of information available, much of it

501
00:30:58,333 --> 00:31:04,853
Speaker 2: through sites LIKEUWT, it appears that the popular debate is

502
00:31:04,933 --> 00:31:09,333
Speaker 2: clearly being won by the alarmists. Seemingly reputable organizations like

503
00:31:09,413 --> 00:31:18,373
Speaker 2: the IPCC, WHO, WWF, NASA, NOAH, CSIRO, EPA keep issuing

504
00:31:18,413 --> 00:31:21,733
Speaker 2: reports heralding pending climate doom that appear to be at

505
00:31:21,733 --> 00:31:25,653
Speaker 2: odds with any unbiased examination of the facts, and when

506
00:31:25,653 --> 00:31:28,893
Speaker 2: they do, they are immediately picked up by an opportunistic

507
00:31:28,973 --> 00:31:32,733
Speaker 2: mainstream press and amplified through social media, leading to widespread

508
00:31:32,773 --> 00:31:36,533
Speaker 2: fear amongst the population, clearly evident in the recent strikes

509
00:31:36,533 --> 00:31:41,333
Speaker 2: for the climate. It'll informed adolessons become the new messiahs,

510
00:31:41,493 --> 00:31:45,733
Speaker 2: preaching the classroom doom gospel and given standing ovations in

511
00:31:45,813 --> 00:31:49,253
Speaker 2: the fact free climate gabfest. School children are now the

512
00:31:49,413 --> 00:31:55,853
Speaker 2: upset victims of corporate ie fossil fuel greed and government stupidity.

513
00:31:56,773 --> 00:32:00,933
Speaker 2: Now that was twenty nineteen. This is twenty twenty four.

514
00:32:02,133 --> 00:32:03,293
Speaker 2: Is it any different now?

515
00:32:05,733 --> 00:32:10,053
Speaker 3: Well, he system, we're losing the debate. I think there

516
00:32:10,093 --> 00:32:12,693
Speaker 3: is a debate. I think the fact is that they

517
00:32:12,733 --> 00:32:19,133
Speaker 3: have such power on their side because a challenging climate

518
00:32:19,213 --> 00:32:23,813
Speaker 3: has become again saying that you love Donald Trump or

519
00:32:24,293 --> 00:32:26,933
Speaker 3: that in Britain, do you want to leave the European

520
00:32:27,013 --> 00:32:29,973
Speaker 3: Union or you know, it puts you outside of the

521
00:32:33,293 --> 00:32:38,973
Speaker 3: acceptable position of being, you know, a nice middle class person.

522
00:32:39,533 --> 00:32:42,893
Speaker 3: That's the kind of power that they have to determine

523
00:32:43,213 --> 00:32:45,173
Speaker 3: this why I think this entire social class. If you're

524
00:32:45,173 --> 00:32:48,573
Speaker 3: at a dinner party, can you say, I think that

525
00:32:48,813 --> 00:32:52,373
Speaker 3: you know a global warming a sort of nonsense. I mean,

526
00:32:52,453 --> 00:32:54,693
Speaker 3: if you're at a dinner party with you know, people

527
00:32:54,733 --> 00:32:57,693
Speaker 3: who run galleries and who are lecturers or this that

528
00:32:57,853 --> 00:33:00,213
Speaker 3: or the other, you know, you've they might not know

529
00:33:00,253 --> 00:33:03,333
Speaker 3: anything about the science. But you've just stood on a landmine.

530
00:33:03,373 --> 00:33:06,133
Speaker 3: You've said something that you absolutely must not if you're

531
00:33:06,133 --> 00:33:08,773
Speaker 3: in a bar out in Essex where a bunch of

532
00:33:09,693 --> 00:33:12,853
Speaker 3: transport workers and you know techn out car dealers and

533
00:33:13,293 --> 00:33:15,533
Speaker 3: train drivers and whatever else, you know, that will go

534
00:33:15,573 --> 00:33:21,013
Speaker 3: down enormously. Well, you know this is but the former group,

535
00:33:22,653 --> 00:33:27,493
Speaker 3: they run education, they run the media, they run the

536
00:33:27,533 --> 00:33:29,933
Speaker 3: civil service, and so that's what their power is and

537
00:33:29,933 --> 00:33:33,133
Speaker 3: they've made sure that we're not having a debate. What's changed,

538
00:33:33,573 --> 00:33:36,653
Speaker 3: I would say is COVID. I think people have seen

539
00:33:37,213 --> 00:33:40,653
Speaker 3: that the so called experts who are telling us what

540
00:33:40,693 --> 00:33:43,533
Speaker 3: to do in COVID were obviously full of you know

541
00:33:43,893 --> 00:33:48,693
Speaker 3: bs that and so I think that their power, their

542
00:33:48,773 --> 00:33:54,813
Speaker 3: authority has been has been crumbled a little because these

543
00:33:54,813 --> 00:33:58,813
Speaker 3: so called expert experts have been exposed as being self

544
00:33:58,853 --> 00:34:02,333
Speaker 3: interested and full of nonsense, and so I think confidence

545
00:34:02,373 --> 00:34:04,573
Speaker 3: in what they say that and people have seen on

546
00:34:04,653 --> 00:34:10,053
Speaker 3: the cliant front prediction after prediction fail for you know,

547
00:34:10,253 --> 00:34:13,613
Speaker 3: forty years now, so that's obviously taking its toll as well.

548
00:34:14,013 --> 00:34:17,733
Speaker 3: So we're not so the fact that that we're not

549
00:34:17,813 --> 00:34:21,173
Speaker 3: allowed to have a debate, and only you know, conservative

550
00:34:21,213 --> 00:34:25,453
Speaker 3: commentators like yourself will you know, have the nerve to

551
00:34:25,493 --> 00:34:27,933
Speaker 3: speak out against climates in it. And even then, I

552
00:34:27,973 --> 00:34:30,133
Speaker 3: think it tends to be older ones. You know, there's

553
00:34:30,173 --> 00:34:33,213
Speaker 3: older documentary makers like me, you know, who are are

554
00:34:33,253 --> 00:34:35,293
Speaker 3: really prepared to sort of swing the bats on this

555
00:34:35,493 --> 00:34:39,213
Speaker 3: because you've got to not care what the repercussions are.

556
00:34:39,253 --> 00:34:42,613
Speaker 3: And an awful of young people, even if they're skeptical,

557
00:34:42,653 --> 00:34:45,893
Speaker 3: certainly in academia, also in media, don't want to speak

558
00:34:45,973 --> 00:34:47,733
Speaker 3: up because they think it'll ruin their career.

559
00:34:48,013 --> 00:34:53,373
Speaker 2: And in many cases it will. Yeah, hell sorry, go

560
00:34:54,053 --> 00:34:56,973
Speaker 2: nearly did mine tell us well?

561
00:34:57,013 --> 00:35:00,493
Speaker 3: I mean the after Global warring A Channel four asked

562
00:35:00,493 --> 00:35:02,653
Speaker 3: me in the UK asked me to make a great

563
00:35:02,693 --> 00:35:05,813
Speaker 3: global warring swindle. There's a wonderful guy who died sadly,

564
00:35:06,613 --> 00:35:09,013
Speaker 3: doctor Henris Makura, who's a geology, used to be head

565
00:35:09,013 --> 00:35:10,893
Speaker 3: of science a Channel four, and he asked me to

566
00:35:10,933 --> 00:35:13,773
Speaker 3: make great global warming shindle. I didn't picture it was

567
00:35:13,813 --> 00:35:17,733
Speaker 3: a quick turnaround thing. And I made that, and you know,

568
00:35:17,813 --> 00:35:21,573
Speaker 3: the ceiling fell on my head and for three years

569
00:35:21,573 --> 00:35:24,333
Speaker 3: after that, Channel four didn't touch me. I didn't make another.

570
00:35:26,213 --> 00:35:28,613
Speaker 3: Before then, I was a regular producer for Channel four

571
00:35:29,293 --> 00:35:31,813
Speaker 3: and I was on the outside for three years after that.

572
00:35:32,173 --> 00:35:36,653
Speaker 3: Even then after that, I only did the sporadic amountive

573
00:35:36,653 --> 00:35:39,653
Speaker 3: work for Channel four and so that forced me oddly

574
00:35:39,733 --> 00:35:43,093
Speaker 3: enough to start making programs for the US, and actually

575
00:35:43,173 --> 00:35:46,213
Speaker 3: that was but I'm glad that that happened because I

576
00:35:46,253 --> 00:35:47,813
Speaker 3: made a lot of more a lot more money making

577
00:35:47,853 --> 00:35:51,133
Speaker 3: films making show for America, and I would have done

578
00:35:51,133 --> 00:35:55,173
Speaker 3: if I'd stuck with the UK, but it came close

579
00:35:55,253 --> 00:36:00,653
Speaker 3: to ruining, you know, live career, and I was thinking,

580
00:36:00,653 --> 00:36:03,773
Speaker 3: do I have to find another kind of work because

581
00:36:03,813 --> 00:36:07,613
Speaker 3: of making a film back climate And that's an awful

582
00:36:07,653 --> 00:36:11,453
Speaker 3: lot of people who on the credit list of my

583
00:36:11,573 --> 00:36:14,173
Speaker 3: film are false names, because a lot of people really

584
00:36:14,493 --> 00:36:17,093
Speaker 3: work in the film but scared about having their real

585
00:36:17,173 --> 00:36:17,893
Speaker 3: name at the end of it.

586
00:36:18,893 --> 00:36:24,053
Speaker 2: Indeed, in the movie, in the video sorry, in the

587
00:36:24,093 --> 00:36:29,213
Speaker 2: documentary there is reference made to Prince Charles and the

588
00:36:30,213 --> 00:36:35,373
Speaker 2: Archbishop of Canterbury too, I believe, and I thought of

589
00:36:35,373 --> 00:36:37,573
Speaker 2: that today when I was watching it for the second time,

590
00:36:38,333 --> 00:36:40,933
Speaker 2: that he was making predictions, many of them about the

591
00:36:40,973 --> 00:36:45,533
Speaker 2: world was stuffed and they had eighteen months or whatever

592
00:36:45,573 --> 00:36:51,573
Speaker 2: it was. Are you familiar with the name Simon Steele

593
00:36:52,173 --> 00:36:53,453
Speaker 2: st Ie double L.

594
00:36:57,013 --> 00:36:57,653
Speaker 3: I don't think so.

595
00:36:57,853 --> 00:37:01,733
Speaker 2: Okay, he's not a trick question. He is a United

596
00:37:01,853 --> 00:37:10,853
Speaker 2: Nations climate official who on Wednesday last week, during a

597
00:37:10,853 --> 00:37:15,853
Speaker 2: speech at the Chatham House think tank in London, said

598
00:37:18,693 --> 00:37:21,853
Speaker 2: there are only two years to save the world from

599
00:37:22,253 --> 00:37:25,253
Speaker 2: environmental crisis. When I say we have two years to

600
00:37:25,293 --> 00:37:27,413
Speaker 2: save the world, it begs the question, who exactly has

601
00:37:27,413 --> 00:37:29,773
Speaker 2: two years to save the world. The answer is every

602
00:37:29,813 --> 00:37:36,093
Speaker 2: person on this planet. And he's finished up by saying

603
00:37:38,613 --> 00:37:41,093
Speaker 2: the other goals such as ending poverty and hunger, are

604
00:37:41,093 --> 00:37:44,773
Speaker 2: not possible unless we get the climate crisis under control,

605
00:37:45,133 --> 00:37:48,253
Speaker 2: and that a quantum leap this year in climate finance

606
00:37:48,533 --> 00:37:53,413
Speaker 2: is both essential and entirely achievable, and he wants trillions

607
00:37:53,453 --> 00:37:58,693
Speaker 2: of dollars taken away from traditional energy infrastructure toward green alternatives.

608
00:37:58,933 --> 00:38:03,853
Speaker 2: So the point being, here's another idiot saying two years

609
00:38:04,013 --> 00:38:07,893
Speaker 2: is all we've got left and spooking the kids as

610
00:38:07,973 --> 00:38:10,773
Speaker 2: much as possible. And we have kids here who take

611
00:38:11,053 --> 00:38:15,773
Speaker 2: pridays off quite quite not infrequently and go go demonstrating

612
00:38:15,773 --> 00:38:21,053
Speaker 2: against them, against the climate. I would have thought that

613
00:38:21,133 --> 00:38:25,133
Speaker 2: by now, and you just touched on it, that these

614
00:38:25,133 --> 00:38:27,573
Speaker 2: predictions that have failed one after the other after the

615
00:38:27,613 --> 00:38:35,333
Speaker 2: other after the other, were out of steam.

616
00:38:35,573 --> 00:38:38,133
Speaker 3: Yeah, you'd have thought that, I mean, unfortunately, I mean

617
00:38:38,413 --> 00:38:41,373
Speaker 3: I think there's a few aspects to the answer to that.

618
00:38:41,453 --> 00:38:44,493
Speaker 3: One of them is that environmental journalists. Of course, I'm

619
00:38:44,493 --> 00:38:47,453
Speaker 3: not journalists. You know, if they were journalists in the

620
00:38:47,453 --> 00:38:50,413
Speaker 3: old sense that they were critical, looking for a story,

621
00:38:50,453 --> 00:38:53,053
Speaker 3: trying to find out where the arguments of the establishment

622
00:38:53,133 --> 00:38:56,213
Speaker 3: were bogus, and all this sort of thing, they were

623
00:38:56,213 --> 00:38:58,253
Speaker 3: to called time on this ages ago. You know, they'd

624
00:38:58,293 --> 00:39:01,653
Speaker 3: said hold on them, and you said that seven times

625
00:39:01,693 --> 00:39:06,573
Speaker 3: before over the past forty years, and it never never happens.

626
00:39:06,613 --> 00:39:09,973
Speaker 3: You know, I remember BBC programs from ages back. I

627
00:39:10,013 --> 00:39:12,453
Speaker 3: remember looking at Russia's thinking about using it for archive

628
00:39:12,533 --> 00:39:15,893
Speaker 3: in great global warming swindle and things before. That's back

629
00:39:15,933 --> 00:39:18,933
Speaker 3: in the early two thousands where the BBC were running

630
00:39:18,933 --> 00:39:21,053
Speaker 3: shows where where the water was halfway up Big Ben.

631
00:39:22,013 --> 00:39:27,133
Speaker 3: You know, it was just absolutely fascical. And if there

632
00:39:27,173 --> 00:39:31,853
Speaker 3: were a genuine kind of you know, a critical journalism

633
00:39:31,893 --> 00:39:34,133
Speaker 3: going on, then this would have been called time on

634
00:39:34,213 --> 00:39:36,213
Speaker 3: a long time ago. You know, people would have said

635
00:39:36,253 --> 00:39:40,253
Speaker 3: this is this is total rubbish. But environmental journalists aren't

636
00:39:40,293 --> 00:39:44,533
Speaker 3: that they are activists and they have a direct interest

637
00:39:44,573 --> 00:39:48,253
Speaker 3: in keeping this nonsense going because environmental journalism only exists

638
00:39:48,333 --> 00:39:51,653
Speaker 3: really because of the climate scare. So if they say

639
00:39:51,693 --> 00:39:54,653
Speaker 3: there is no climate scare, you know, you're you're undermining

640
00:39:54,693 --> 00:39:57,133
Speaker 3: your own job as an environmental journalists. People say, we

641
00:39:57,173 --> 00:40:00,533
Speaker 3: don't need environmental journalists and we're not that interested in hedgerows.

642
00:40:00,653 --> 00:40:04,933
Speaker 3: So they're part of the game. And beyond that, the

643
00:40:06,413 --> 00:40:09,493
Speaker 3: lots of people in news as you know, as we

644
00:40:09,533 --> 00:40:14,213
Speaker 3: know come from news and also thanked, factual TV, factual radio.

645
00:40:14,533 --> 00:40:18,133
Speaker 3: They come from arts backgrounds, and they are part of

646
00:40:18,413 --> 00:40:21,773
Speaker 3: the intelligency. And the intelligencia are brought into this absolutely

647
00:40:21,853 --> 00:40:25,413
Speaker 3: lock stock and barrel as they have other you know,

648
00:40:25,973 --> 00:40:28,893
Speaker 3: other issues too, So you have this this weight as

649
00:40:28,933 --> 00:40:31,413
Speaker 3: well behind it. And so they get away with it.

650
00:40:31,573 --> 00:40:33,573
Speaker 3: And so that you know, the chat that you mentioned

651
00:40:33,893 --> 00:40:37,133
Speaker 3: Arab deal. You know, we can say we've got you know,

652
00:40:37,213 --> 00:40:39,973
Speaker 3: eight weeks to save the world and the answer is

653
00:40:40,013 --> 00:40:44,053
Speaker 3: you're going to give me half a trillion quid. He

654
00:40:44,133 --> 00:40:46,733
Speaker 3: gets away with it, and you know, you just have

655
00:40:47,573 --> 00:40:51,773
Speaker 3: you know, you know, conservative commentators like yourself, you know,

656
00:40:52,813 --> 00:40:55,693
Speaker 3: raising a fuss, but the mainstream media let it, let

657
00:40:55,733 --> 00:40:55,973
Speaker 3: it go.

658
00:40:57,333 --> 00:41:01,173
Speaker 2: Well, the mainstream media bans it, not not entirely, but

659
00:41:01,373 --> 00:41:05,213
Speaker 2: one of the two national newspapers in this country has

660
00:41:05,213 --> 00:41:07,653
Speaker 2: banned any commentary at all that's outside.

661
00:41:07,213 --> 00:41:09,613
Speaker 3: The side the climate orthodoxy.

662
00:41:09,773 --> 00:41:14,533
Speaker 2: That'll do. The European Court of Human Rights last week

663
00:41:15,093 --> 00:41:20,173
Speaker 2: ruled that the Swiss government had not done its job

664
00:41:20,373 --> 00:41:26,093
Speaker 2: in reducing greenhouse gases and ruling that they were in

665
00:41:26,133 --> 00:41:30,973
Speaker 2: default of what was required for the health of the

666
00:41:31,013 --> 00:41:34,173
Speaker 2: people of the country. This case was brought by four

667
00:41:34,453 --> 00:41:37,973
Speaker 2: elderly women who represented a couple of thousand elderly women

668
00:41:37,973 --> 00:41:41,733
Speaker 2: an organization, and they and they pleaded their case and

669
00:41:41,893 --> 00:41:47,893
Speaker 2: the court gifted gifted them with the result. My question

670
00:41:48,293 --> 00:41:53,013
Speaker 2: is how much power in Europe? And thank goodness Britain

671
00:41:53,173 --> 00:41:57,053
Speaker 2: got itself out exited, but how much power in Europe

672
00:41:57,093 --> 00:41:59,013
Speaker 2: does the European Court of Human Rights have?

673
00:42:00,053 --> 00:42:03,133
Speaker 3: Well, I mean this is this is a really worrying thing, sady.

674
00:42:03,133 --> 00:42:08,693
Speaker 3: Britain is still under the ages of the of that body,

675
00:42:08,733 --> 00:42:11,573
Speaker 3: and that now there's you know, moves to try and

676
00:42:11,613 --> 00:42:16,133
Speaker 3: get us extricated from that. But this is why the

677
00:42:16,333 --> 00:42:19,573
Speaker 3: very same people who so love the climate crisis also

678
00:42:19,693 --> 00:42:22,653
Speaker 3: love the EU because it's you know, power to that

679
00:42:22,773 --> 00:42:26,773
Speaker 3: class that we talked about earlier in the interview. I mean,

680
00:42:26,813 --> 00:42:31,373
Speaker 3: this is the way they govern beyond democratic means. You know,

681
00:42:32,173 --> 00:42:34,093
Speaker 3: as we were saying, you know that there's a sort

682
00:42:34,133 --> 00:42:38,813
Speaker 3: of charade of democracy, but actually they're assuming successfully and

683
00:42:39,173 --> 00:42:42,693
Speaker 3: using climate to do it, climate and other issues. They're

684
00:42:42,733 --> 00:42:45,893
Speaker 3: assuming more and more power over and above you know,

685
00:42:45,933 --> 00:42:47,973
Speaker 3: the heads of the people, and they're Switzerland. You know,

686
00:42:48,013 --> 00:42:51,173
Speaker 3: Sitis is an incredibly diacratic country, probably one of the

687
00:42:51,213 --> 00:42:55,253
Speaker 3: most democratic in the world. Politicians have very little power there.

688
00:42:55,253 --> 00:42:58,453
Speaker 3: There are constitutional constraints on what politicians can do, what

689
00:42:58,533 --> 00:43:02,653
Speaker 3: they can spend. Any any bunch of Swiss folks can

690
00:43:02,693 --> 00:43:05,373
Speaker 3: get together and you know, if they get enough signatures,

691
00:43:05,373 --> 00:43:07,733
Speaker 3: demand a referendum on something, and that referendum is going

692
00:43:07,773 --> 00:43:10,053
Speaker 3: to be binding. I mean, there's a model of a

693
00:43:10,133 --> 00:43:14,613
Speaker 3: glorious democracy, genuine democracy, and also what a genuine democracy does.

694
00:43:14,653 --> 00:43:17,613
Speaker 3: In terms of the economy. You know that the wage

695
00:43:18,413 --> 00:43:22,253
Speaker 3: weights through the roofs there. I think the gdpeople average

696
00:43:22,293 --> 00:43:26,173
Speaker 3: wages are twice as high as Britain. You know, it's

697
00:43:26,173 --> 00:43:29,453
Speaker 3: a it's a fantastically prosperous country as a result of

698
00:43:30,133 --> 00:43:36,533
Speaker 3: the kind of parasitic public sector being held you know,

699
00:43:36,693 --> 00:43:40,213
Speaker 3: in in in chains and you know the fact that

700
00:43:40,213 --> 00:43:43,733
Speaker 3: they've stopped them getting out of hand. And here we

701
00:43:43,893 --> 00:43:50,853
Speaker 3: have the climate being used by a supernational, supernational bureaucractic

702
00:43:50,933 --> 00:43:53,733
Speaker 3: body in order to overrule the will of the people.

703
00:43:54,853 --> 00:43:58,333
Speaker 3: And it's deeply, deeply, deeply sinister. I think you know

704
00:43:58,413 --> 00:44:02,133
Speaker 3: the idea, and there's a paragraph in that ruling that says,

705
00:44:02,453 --> 00:44:05,093
Speaker 3: you know, we must not be held back by this

706
00:44:05,213 --> 00:44:08,173
Speaker 3: notion that the the view of the majority of the

707
00:44:08,333 --> 00:44:12,453
Speaker 3: people in whole sway, or even their representatives. You know,

708
00:44:12,533 --> 00:44:15,373
Speaker 3: they're redefining what democracy means. It no longer means the

709
00:44:15,373 --> 00:44:18,413
Speaker 3: will of the people. It means what's in the interests

710
00:44:18,453 --> 00:44:22,093
Speaker 3: of the people as determined by the bureaucractic elite. So

711
00:44:22,293 --> 00:44:26,773
Speaker 3: it's for anyone who loves democracy or freedom or individual rights,

712
00:44:26,853 --> 00:44:31,533
Speaker 3: or fears the trutality totality in overreach of government, this

713
00:44:31,853 --> 00:44:34,853
Speaker 3: is a black day when that happened. I mean, they're

714
00:44:34,933 --> 00:44:35,573
Speaker 3: really worrying.

715
00:44:35,653 --> 00:44:38,373
Speaker 2: Sign Well, it's I feel that it's not just not

716
00:44:38,453 --> 00:44:42,333
Speaker 2: just Europe. Uh and unfortunately you're collared by it. But

717
00:44:42,573 --> 00:44:46,213
Speaker 2: at the moment, but it will influence courts in New

718
00:44:46,293 --> 00:44:49,013
Speaker 2: Zealand as well as other places. We have we have

719
00:44:49,053 --> 00:44:52,653
Speaker 2: a case very briefly where the Supreme Court has entered

720
00:44:52,693 --> 00:45:00,053
Speaker 2: the realms of climate expertness and are allowing a case

721
00:45:00,093 --> 00:45:02,933
Speaker 2: to proceed which I don't want to go into detail,

722
00:45:02,973 --> 00:45:06,813
Speaker 2: so I'll just say which is absurd, ridiculous, but will

723
00:45:07,453 --> 00:45:11,533
Speaker 2: cause issues. Even if the court in the end does

724
00:45:11,573 --> 00:45:17,453
Speaker 2: not does not side with the applicant, it will cause issues. Uh.

725
00:45:17,493 --> 00:45:21,493
Speaker 2: And I think that the European Court will will spread

726
00:45:21,533 --> 00:45:23,493
Speaker 2: its whim as far as here.

727
00:45:24,213 --> 00:45:28,013
Speaker 3: Do you think do you think that? Do you think that?

728
00:45:28,053 --> 00:45:31,333
Speaker 3: Do you think there's any the anger is growing about that?

729
00:45:31,413 --> 00:45:33,693
Speaker 3: I mean, you see in America, so many people are

730
00:45:33,813 --> 00:45:37,853
Speaker 3: absolutely furious about what's going on, you know, hence all

731
00:45:37,893 --> 00:45:41,813
Speaker 3: the support for for Trump. So many people in Canada

732
00:45:42,013 --> 00:45:46,693
Speaker 3: are so angry about, you know, the truckers demonstrations in Canada.

733
00:45:47,173 --> 00:45:50,173
Speaker 3: The farmers have been up in arms in the Netherlands,

734
00:45:50,173 --> 00:45:54,253
Speaker 3: in Germany, in France, in Britain. I think there's there's

735
00:45:54,333 --> 00:45:58,253
Speaker 3: the anger is increasing. I do about New Zealand with

736
00:45:58,253 --> 00:46:02,253
Speaker 3: with the you know, the anti COVID stuff, but it

737
00:46:02,373 --> 00:46:05,493
Speaker 3: feels to me like there is the growth in a

738
00:46:05,573 --> 00:46:10,093
Speaker 3: number of countries of anti establishment parties. And I'm just

739
00:46:10,133 --> 00:46:14,213
Speaker 3: wondering whether you know the that's happening in New Zealand.

740
00:46:13,853 --> 00:46:18,253
Speaker 2: Too, not to the same extent. The media here is

741
00:46:19,413 --> 00:46:22,293
Speaker 2: left in the main if you want, if you want

742
00:46:22,293 --> 00:46:26,293
Speaker 2: anything basically conservative, occasionally you'll get a sop article in

743
00:46:26,333 --> 00:46:29,373
Speaker 2: one of the papers, but mostly you've got to go

744
00:46:29,493 --> 00:46:33,493
Speaker 2: to non mainstream outlets, and there's there's two or three

745
00:46:33,573 --> 00:46:37,213
Speaker 2: very good ones, but they have a captured audience and

746
00:46:37,653 --> 00:46:41,253
Speaker 2: other people don't. Don't enter into the realm, if you're understanding.

747
00:46:41,693 --> 00:46:44,973
Speaker 3: But it's interesting. But it's interesting how much how we

748
00:46:45,053 --> 00:46:47,973
Speaker 3: perceive them to have and how little they have when

749
00:46:48,013 --> 00:46:50,373
Speaker 3: when push comes to shelves. I mean in Britain there

750
00:46:50,413 --> 00:46:53,453
Speaker 3: was a you know, all of the media were behind

751
00:46:53,493 --> 00:46:57,213
Speaker 3: seeing in the EU and the you know, the ordinary

752
00:46:57,213 --> 00:46:59,653
Speaker 3: people rose rose up and gave them a bloody nose.

753
00:47:00,293 --> 00:47:02,213
Speaker 3: And I think likewise with Trump. You know, all the

754
00:47:02,333 --> 00:47:06,653
Speaker 3: mainstream media and America is so virulently anti Trump, and

755
00:47:06,733 --> 00:47:09,893
Speaker 3: yet so many people who you know, in the Midwest

756
00:47:09,933 --> 00:47:13,413
Speaker 3: and beyond, who I pick up trucks and read Bibles

757
00:47:13,533 --> 00:47:16,053
Speaker 3: and have a gun and all that sort of thing,

758
00:47:16,173 --> 00:47:19,333
Speaker 3: they're not having any of it. They're just the mention

759
00:47:19,493 --> 00:47:21,773
Speaker 3: immediately gone. As much as they like, they're going to

760
00:47:21,773 --> 00:47:26,053
Speaker 3: bote Trump. So I'm wondering whether I'm hoping that there's

761
00:47:26,093 --> 00:47:29,413
Speaker 3: some sort of backlash from below might take place. I

762
00:47:29,453 --> 00:47:31,093
Speaker 3: don't think you can have a backlash from below.

763
00:47:32,213 --> 00:47:35,293
Speaker 2: Well, the closest we got was a demonstration outside of

764
00:47:35,333 --> 00:47:42,293
Speaker 2: Parliament during COVID when a large number of people gathered

765
00:47:42,453 --> 00:47:45,373
Speaker 2: and they set camp and they stayed Therefore, I think

766
00:47:45,413 --> 00:47:47,373
Speaker 2: it was three weeks. It could have been a bit longer.

767
00:47:48,253 --> 00:47:54,373
Speaker 2: In the end, the Prime minister that was turned the

768
00:47:54,813 --> 00:47:58,613
Speaker 2: hoses on them and there was a bit of a

769
00:47:58,693 --> 00:48:01,613
Speaker 2: riot and a tussle with some cops and what have you.

770
00:48:02,653 --> 00:48:04,453
Speaker 2: But then it was all over and that was that.

771
00:48:05,653 --> 00:48:10,213
Speaker 2: But they but they were condemned to outright by most

772
00:48:10,653 --> 00:48:14,413
Speaker 2: people in the country, I think, certainly by politicians and

773
00:48:14,653 --> 00:48:18,293
Speaker 2: people in positions of There's not much more to be

774
00:48:18,333 --> 00:48:22,213
Speaker 2: said about it than that. So a few quick quick questions,

775
00:48:22,253 --> 00:48:24,573
Speaker 2: if you would. How long did it take to make

776
00:48:24,853 --> 00:48:26,493
Speaker 2: this move this documentary?

777
00:48:28,693 --> 00:48:31,453
Speaker 3: Oh, the I was I was a bit too slow

778
00:48:31,533 --> 00:48:33,093
Speaker 3: doing it, so it was the best part of the year.

779
00:48:34,853 --> 00:48:37,613
Speaker 2: Who did most of the interviews? And you're going to

780
00:48:37,613 --> 00:48:38,733
Speaker 2: say Tom Nelson.

781
00:48:38,413 --> 00:48:41,893
Speaker 3: I think no, I did the interviews.

782
00:48:41,973 --> 00:48:47,013
Speaker 2: You did the interviews. Yeah, okay, just I've mentioned Tom Nelson.

783
00:48:47,013 --> 00:48:48,973
Speaker 2: Now just I'd not heard of him before. Just a

784
00:48:49,053 --> 00:48:53,693
Speaker 2: quick brief sorry, a quick brief expose Tom Nelson.

785
00:48:55,333 --> 00:49:00,133
Speaker 3: Yes, Tom started looking at the climate thing, I mean

786
00:49:00,213 --> 00:49:03,333
Speaker 3: quite late, just sort of about three years ago, and

787
00:49:03,453 --> 00:49:12,613
Speaker 3: started doing podcasts with climate skeptics and loosely defined from

788
00:49:12,653 --> 00:49:17,493
Speaker 3: different from different areas, and no one had really done

789
00:49:17,493 --> 00:49:21,173
Speaker 3: this before, and so he became the sort of it

790
00:49:21,333 --> 00:49:27,173
Speaker 3: was kept skeptic podcast central and became in the computed

791
00:49:27,213 --> 00:49:30,133
Speaker 3: position of actually talking in depth to loads and loads

792
00:49:30,173 --> 00:49:32,453
Speaker 3: and loads of people on this subject. And so he became,

793
00:49:32,893 --> 00:49:38,093
Speaker 3: you know, something of an expert in it. And also

794
00:49:38,173 --> 00:49:41,533
Speaker 3: I ended up on the Tom Nelson podcast and he

795
00:49:41,653 --> 00:49:44,173
Speaker 3: suggested to me, you know what about making you know,

796
00:49:44,253 --> 00:49:46,773
Speaker 3: the Great Global War and Swindle. Again, it was seventeen

797
00:49:46,853 --> 00:49:51,333
Speaker 3: years ago, two thousand and seven, and there hadn't been

798
00:49:51,613 --> 00:49:54,493
Speaker 3: a big documentary since then from the skeptical side, such

799
00:49:54,533 --> 00:49:58,213
Speaker 3: as the power that the other side has over the media,

800
00:49:58,293 --> 00:50:01,293
Speaker 3: and so I said, oh, well, you know maybe, and

801
00:50:01,333 --> 00:50:03,533
Speaker 3: then he went and managed to raise the money for it,

802
00:50:03,533 --> 00:50:04,893
Speaker 3: and so I had to do it there.

803
00:50:05,733 --> 00:50:08,933
Speaker 2: So he raised the money. Interesting, how is it that

804
00:50:08,973 --> 00:50:12,733
Speaker 2: it's being released free to all on Sundry.

805
00:50:14,213 --> 00:50:18,173
Speaker 3: Well, we realized that we couldn't were a you just

806
00:50:18,213 --> 00:50:20,413
Speaker 3: can't sell this kind of film to broadcasters because they

807
00:50:20,413 --> 00:50:23,493
Speaker 3: weren't broadcasters, first of all, because they tend to be

808
00:50:23,653 --> 00:50:28,293
Speaker 3: left leaning and against climate skepticism anyway, but also because

809
00:50:28,333 --> 00:50:31,453
Speaker 3: a lot of broadcasting authorities like off Calm and others,

810
00:50:31,693 --> 00:50:35,533
Speaker 3: you know, they specifically have you know, they're skewed against

811
00:50:36,013 --> 00:50:39,933
Speaker 3: broadcasters putting out any of this sort of stuff. I mean,

812
00:50:39,973 --> 00:50:42,133
Speaker 3: there are actually, you know, there are regulations to prevent

813
00:50:42,173 --> 00:50:46,053
Speaker 3: them doing so, and sometimes I think in Canada you

814
00:50:46,053 --> 00:50:49,173
Speaker 3: can you know, you're you're risking losing your broadcasting license

815
00:50:49,213 --> 00:50:53,493
Speaker 3: as a broadcaster if you dare to start transmitting skeptic stuff.

816
00:50:53,573 --> 00:50:56,133
Speaker 3: And I think gb News in the UK is suffering

817
00:50:56,133 --> 00:50:59,093
Speaker 3: because of that of the moment. So there are absolutely

818
00:50:59,213 --> 00:51:02,613
Speaker 3: are there are kind of laws against skeptical, against you

819
00:51:02,693 --> 00:51:05,613
Speaker 3: challenging climate crisis in the West. I mean, people don't

820
00:51:05,653 --> 00:51:08,693
Speaker 3: realize that it's absolutely shocking in a democratic coumpt that

821
00:51:08,693 --> 00:51:13,133
Speaker 3: that's the case, but it is. And so we thought, well,

822
00:51:13,213 --> 00:51:16,853
Speaker 3: it's going to be hard to put this film out anyway,

823
00:51:16,933 --> 00:51:19,333
Speaker 3: and also we wanted many people as possible to see it.

824
00:51:19,413 --> 00:51:21,933
Speaker 3: So if you charge a tenor for people to see it,

825
00:51:21,933 --> 00:51:25,093
Speaker 3: then you're grid reducing the number of people are going

826
00:51:25,093 --> 00:51:27,013
Speaker 3: to end up seeing it. So we just thought, okay,

827
00:51:27,933 --> 00:51:30,173
Speaker 3: we're just going to take a hit. We're essentially going

828
00:51:30,213 --> 00:51:32,333
Speaker 3: to do it for free. We all feel very passionate

829
00:51:32,373 --> 00:51:35,573
Speaker 3: about it and put it out there and luckily, you know,

830
00:51:35,693 --> 00:51:39,413
Speaker 3: God bless Elon Musk. Twitter has been a very good

831
00:51:39,413 --> 00:51:43,693
Speaker 3: way of getting it out there, disseminating the film itself,

832
00:51:44,093 --> 00:51:49,933
Speaker 3: because we've also experienced sadly censorship on Facebook and YouTube.

833
00:51:50,373 --> 00:51:54,413
Speaker 3: So even when you give the film away, such as

834
00:51:54,413 --> 00:51:57,853
Speaker 3: their control of media and social media, that you know

835
00:51:57,893 --> 00:51:58,573
Speaker 3: it's hard to do.

836
00:52:00,093 --> 00:52:02,613
Speaker 2: Indeed, I look down the list of people who were

837
00:52:02,653 --> 00:52:08,013
Speaker 2: on it, and I've done half of them. I knew

838
00:52:08,053 --> 00:52:11,413
Speaker 2: i'd spoken to Ni Shaviv, and so I looked it

839
00:52:11,493 --> 00:52:13,653
Speaker 2: up a couple of hours ago, and it was in

840
00:52:13,733 --> 00:52:18,213
Speaker 2: podcasts thirty six back in twenty nineteen, and we're now

841
00:52:18,293 --> 00:52:20,413
Speaker 2: up to two hundred and thirty or two thirty for

842
00:52:20,493 --> 00:52:25,813
Speaker 2: the two thirty six. You'll be the future of documentaries.

843
00:52:25,853 --> 00:52:26,733
Speaker 2: What do you think of it?

844
00:52:27,173 --> 00:52:27,653
Speaker 3: Oh?

845
00:52:28,973 --> 00:52:32,373
Speaker 2: In other words, I'm asking you, I'm asking you, will

846
00:52:32,413 --> 00:52:34,373
Speaker 2: you survive? Will you continue?

847
00:52:36,053 --> 00:52:40,093
Speaker 3: Oh? Will I my documentaries? I don't know. I think

848
00:52:40,373 --> 00:52:44,933
Speaker 3: it's I mean, I don't know if I if I've

849
00:52:44,973 --> 00:52:47,453
Speaker 3: got the energy to do more. If you do get

850
00:52:47,493 --> 00:52:50,493
Speaker 3: it is horrible. You do get attacked terribly when you

851
00:52:50,533 --> 00:52:53,613
Speaker 3: make documentaries like this. I mean, I'm sure that you've

852
00:52:53,613 --> 00:52:57,093
Speaker 3: obviously experienced this. When my wife, you know, always says,

853
00:52:57,133 --> 00:53:01,213
Speaker 3: you know, please please don't make another one. She keeps

854
00:53:01,253 --> 00:53:04,973
Speaker 3: reminding me of all the friends she's lost documentaries I made.

855
00:53:05,893 --> 00:53:08,573
Speaker 3: So that's quite hard. And also I'm getting not a

856
00:53:08,573 --> 00:53:11,413
Speaker 3: bit now and trying to write my book. But I

857
00:53:12,413 --> 00:53:16,653
Speaker 3: think the documentaries and I don't. I'm not optimistic that

858
00:53:16,773 --> 00:53:20,133
Speaker 3: many documentaries will be made at all. That's critical of

859
00:53:20,693 --> 00:53:22,813
Speaker 3: the blob, the swamp, the people who have been talking

860
00:53:22,813 --> 00:53:26,333
Speaker 3: about just because you know, the media is so skewed,

861
00:53:26,373 --> 00:53:29,173
Speaker 3: as you've talked about. I mean, thank god for podcasts

862
00:53:29,253 --> 00:53:33,493
Speaker 3: like yours, because you know, they're they're little lights in

863
00:53:33,573 --> 00:53:38,133
Speaker 3: the darkness, not lies big lights. But nevertheless, you know,

864
00:53:38,213 --> 00:53:41,893
Speaker 3: we're sorry. I'm mixing mephorce here, swimming against the tide.

865
00:53:41,933 --> 00:53:44,013
Speaker 3: I'm not optimistic, I suppose that's my answer.

866
00:53:44,253 --> 00:53:48,013
Speaker 2: That's that's sad here. But never nevertheless, I congratulate you

867
00:53:48,053 --> 00:53:51,013
Speaker 2: on what you have achieved to this point because there's

868
00:53:51,013 --> 00:53:56,733
Speaker 2: some very good other topics in your index. So one

869
00:53:56,813 --> 00:54:02,133
Speaker 2: last question, censorship. Do you see it becoming increasingly challenging?

870
00:54:02,653 --> 00:54:07,053
Speaker 3: Yeah. I always think, you know, thank god for social

871
00:54:07,093 --> 00:54:10,893
Speaker 3: media platforms breaking the power of the gatekeepers in one sense,

872
00:54:12,133 --> 00:54:16,253
Speaker 3: and I've realized there must be sort of political censorship

873
00:54:16,333 --> 00:54:19,653
Speaker 3: on there. But I always thought, actually, until now, maybe

874
00:54:20,053 --> 00:54:25,013
Speaker 3: the you know, the libertarian types were rather exaggerating how

875
00:54:25,093 --> 00:54:27,493
Speaker 3: much censorship there was, and maybe there wasn't as much

876
00:54:27,493 --> 00:54:30,693
Speaker 3: as people, you know, were we just imagining it and

877
00:54:30,733 --> 00:54:33,333
Speaker 3: were we exaggerating how much there was? And then I

878
00:54:33,373 --> 00:54:37,573
Speaker 3: made this film, I realized how much there was because suddenly,

879
00:54:39,013 --> 00:54:43,453
Speaker 3: you know, so perfectly innocent film in other regards as well,

880
00:54:43,493 --> 00:54:46,093
Speaker 3: researched and sort of together, you know, where we've we've

881
00:54:46,093 --> 00:54:48,453
Speaker 3: got the licenses for all our archive and all our

882
00:54:48,533 --> 00:54:51,373
Speaker 3: music and so on, so it's been entirely kosher. And

883
00:54:51,453 --> 00:54:55,653
Speaker 3: yet it's been shadow band on YouTube. If you if

884
00:54:55,693 --> 00:54:57,573
Speaker 3: you put in the search part plan the movie, despite

885
00:54:57,613 --> 00:54:59,773
Speaker 3: the fact that millions of people now watched the movie,

886
00:55:00,093 --> 00:55:01,773
Speaker 3: it doesn't come up with. What comes up is a

887
00:55:01,773 --> 00:55:06,133
Speaker 3: lot of you know, critic critical hit jobs on the

888
00:55:06,173 --> 00:55:09,133
Speaker 3: movie or other stuff, and you will are really search

889
00:55:09,173 --> 00:55:11,413
Speaker 3: in order to find out you know, where it is.

890
00:55:11,453 --> 00:55:14,813
Speaker 3: And likewise, on Facebook, if you're on Facebook, people on

891
00:55:14,813 --> 00:55:16,733
Speaker 3: Facebook trying to repost it, they have the kind of

892
00:55:16,733 --> 00:55:20,773
Speaker 3: threatening note comes up and the post is removed, and

893
00:55:21,253 --> 00:55:24,333
Speaker 3: oh my god, the power of these people is extraordinary.

894
00:55:24,333 --> 00:55:27,893
Speaker 3: And obviously YouTube and Facebook a private organization is so

895
00:55:28,173 --> 00:55:30,173
Speaker 3: you know, they're free to ban if they want, but

896
00:55:31,093 --> 00:55:35,813
Speaker 3: they don't present themselves as kind of left wing organizations

897
00:55:35,933 --> 00:55:40,013
Speaker 3: that are politically skewed. They present themselves as neutral platforms

898
00:55:40,013 --> 00:55:42,733
Speaker 3: on which everyone can have their say. And that's really

899
00:55:42,773 --> 00:55:47,853
Speaker 3: the wickedness of it, you know, the subtlety of this

900
00:55:47,933 --> 00:55:50,893
Speaker 3: form of control is that, you know, we think that,

901
00:55:52,613 --> 00:55:54,493
Speaker 3: you know, we're playing on the level playing field and

902
00:55:54,573 --> 00:55:57,933
Speaker 3: ideas are just freely flowing one way or another, pushed

903
00:55:57,973 --> 00:56:00,773
Speaker 3: by whoever's sort of pushing them. But actually there is

904
00:56:00,773 --> 00:56:04,613
Speaker 3: in you know, there are dark left wing algorithms working

905
00:56:04,653 --> 00:56:10,613
Speaker 3: beneath the surface, influencing very subtly, in fact, not very subtly,

906
00:56:10,693 --> 00:56:14,733
Speaker 3: influencing how much of what arguments we see, what arguments

907
00:56:14,773 --> 00:56:17,573
Speaker 3: we see, what we're exposed to, and so on, and

908
00:56:18,173 --> 00:56:24,773
Speaker 3: that I think is deeply sinister. So making the program

909
00:56:24,773 --> 00:56:26,653
Speaker 3: and making this film and putting it out has been

910
00:56:27,453 --> 00:56:30,853
Speaker 3: a lesson to me on that front and has made

911
00:56:30,893 --> 00:56:35,173
Speaker 3: me all the all the more I must attack. I

912
00:56:35,253 --> 00:56:37,893
Speaker 3: must try and counter this pessimism because it's too often,

913
00:56:38,013 --> 00:56:39,653
Speaker 3: you know, I'm sure you have it too, that you

914
00:56:39,693 --> 00:56:41,533
Speaker 3: read the papers and you just say, oh my god,

915
00:56:41,653 --> 00:56:44,613
Speaker 3: you want to bury your head. Everything that seems so bleak.

916
00:56:44,973 --> 00:56:48,173
Speaker 3: But somehow we've got to fight through it and make

917
00:56:48,213 --> 00:56:52,053
Speaker 3: sure that you know that the good triumphs.

918
00:56:52,453 --> 00:56:57,493
Speaker 2: Indeed, I'm not miserable. I feel I've run out of

919
00:56:57,533 --> 00:56:59,333
Speaker 2: words to use to say how I feel.

920
00:56:59,653 --> 00:57:00,653
Speaker 3: It's so complicated.

921
00:57:00,773 --> 00:57:04,853
Speaker 2: It's so complicated late something like something like that. But

922
00:57:04,893 --> 00:57:06,573
Speaker 2: I'm not depressed. Let me put it that way.

923
00:57:08,973 --> 00:57:09,133
Speaker 3: Now.

924
00:57:09,173 --> 00:57:11,333
Speaker 2: A message for your wife, tell her that they weren't

925
00:57:11,373 --> 00:57:16,173
Speaker 2: really friends. And I want to thank you very much

926
00:57:16,213 --> 00:57:19,693
Speaker 2: for your time. You've been most generous, and forget the

927
00:57:19,813 --> 00:57:22,333
Speaker 2: chance again. I'll be in touch.

928
00:57:24,213 --> 00:57:26,973
Speaker 3: Well, ladies, thank you very very much for having me

929
00:57:27,333 --> 00:57:30,253
Speaker 3: on your podcast, and please please keep doing what you're doing.

930
00:57:30,693 --> 00:57:46,613
Speaker 2: Martin appreciated. Thank you. Well. The un official who said

931
00:57:46,693 --> 00:57:49,213
Speaker 2: we only two we've only got two two years to

932
00:57:49,253 --> 00:57:53,013
Speaker 2: save the planet just joined another massive heap of people

933
00:57:53,093 --> 00:57:57,533
Speaker 2: who've made false predictions time and time again, and each

934
00:57:57,573 --> 00:58:00,253
Speaker 2: one of u has been buried. And with that in mind,

935
00:58:00,693 --> 00:58:04,933
Speaker 2: we'll take leave and return again with another in the

936
00:58:04,933 --> 00:58:09,213
Speaker 2: best of the Latenessmiths Podcasts. So once again, because you

937
00:58:09,253 --> 00:58:12,253
Speaker 2: can't say it too much, Happy New Year.

938
00:58:20,493 --> 00:58:24,133
Speaker 1: Thank you for more from News Talks at b Listen

939
00:58:24,213 --> 00:58:27,173
Speaker 1: live on air or online, and keep our shows with

940
00:58:27,253 --> 00:58:30,413
Speaker 1: you wherever you go with our podcasts on iHeartRadio.