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Speaker 1: Kiyota.

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Speaker 2: I'm Chelsea Daniels and from the team behind the front

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Speaker 2: page the New Zealand Herald's daily news podcast, This Is

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Speaker 2: Accused the Polkinghorn Trial. Over the next six weeks, in

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Speaker 2: conjunction with our usual daily episodes, we'll be bringing you

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Speaker 2: regular coverage as one of the most high profile trials

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Speaker 2: of the year makes its way through the High Court

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Speaker 2: at Auckland. A warning, this podcast contains disturbing content. Questions

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Speaker 2: swirl around a certain dinner at a Havelock North restaurant,

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Speaker 2: more on what prescription drugs Pauline Hannah was taking and

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Speaker 2: the unraveling of the issues at Auckland. Eye friends and

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Speaker 2: colleagues have weighed in at the end of the third

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Speaker 2: week of Philip Pulkinghorn's trial. He's accused of murdering his

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Speaker 2: wife in a Pril twenty twenty one. He maintains she

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Speaker 2: took her own life. Pheasant's husband, John reared and took

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Speaker 2: to the stand on day thirteen, but continued his evidence

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Speaker 2: on day fourteen. He spoke about the dinner in twenty

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Speaker 2: twenty when Pauline confided in them that Philip had put

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Speaker 2: his hands around her neck. She started talking about the

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Speaker 2: difficulties in her relationship, the arguments, and how she had

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Speaker 2: to be very very careful around her husband otherwise he

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Speaker 2: would blow out.

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Speaker 3: You did it just so we capture that you were

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Speaker 3: gesturing with yours one hand above the other right and

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Speaker 3: above your left, and you've got your fingers open around

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Speaker 3: your throat.

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Speaker 1: I captured that.

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Speaker 4: Right, Yes, So she gestured that she did, and then

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Speaker 4: she said nothing for maybe five seconds, and we just

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Speaker 4: sort of looked at him and thought, what are you doing?

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Speaker 4: What are you saying? And then she said, he tried

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Speaker 4: to strangle me.

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Speaker 3: So, as best you can recall, how accurate are those

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Speaker 3: words he tried to strangle me?

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Speaker 4: Oh, very acurate?

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Speaker 1: And who was he?

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Speaker 4: Well, because all of the conversation that we'd had to

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Speaker 4: date was about Philip and Pauline and their.

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Speaker 3: Marriage, So how certain are you about the words? He

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Speaker 3: tried to strangle me? And when she'd done that, she'd

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Speaker 3: done that gesture and she'd said that.

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Speaker 1: What happened next?

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Speaker 4: I just said to her, pack up your bags, you

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Speaker 4: come home with us.

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Speaker 1: Why were you saying that?

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Speaker 4: Well, multitude was that he'd done it once, he'll do

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Speaker 4: it again.

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Speaker 1: Did you say that?

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Speaker 4: That's why? I said to you.

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Speaker 2: Yes, he remembers her telling them she didn't have any money,

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Speaker 2: she'd have nowhere to live. John continued to strongly encourage

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Speaker 2: her to come home, and what.

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Speaker 1: Was her reaction if you need to suggestion that she

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Speaker 1: should come home?

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Speaker 4: I felt that she was very nervous about the idea

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Speaker 4: of leaving the flood.

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Speaker 3: Why did you Why do you say you felt that?

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Speaker 3: What did she say or do that that made you

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Speaker 3: feel that?

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Speaker 5: Well?

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Speaker 4: When she started telling us about the fact that he'd

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Speaker 4: shown great remorse, and I'm going, yeah, he might have,

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Speaker 4: but if he's do it to you once, he will

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Speaker 4: do it to you again. No, see this time and

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Speaker 4: time again?

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Speaker 6: Was was?

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Speaker 3: What was Pheasant doing when you're having this conversation about it?

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Speaker 3: If it's seven once, it will happen again.

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Speaker 1: What was Pheasant's reaction to this? Or do you not

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Speaker 1: now recall.

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Speaker 4: I don't specifically recall her reaction, but it would have

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Speaker 4: been the same as mine. What were you focusing on

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Speaker 4: her safety? Like get her out of where she was

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Speaker 4: and get her home?

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Speaker 5: Who's safety or Leans?

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Speaker 4: Yep.

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Speaker 2: He also remembered staying at the couple's Remuerra home and

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Speaker 2: Philip coming home and the mood dropping.

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Speaker 1: Philip came in that night. You thought Pauline's demeanor.

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Speaker 4: Change, oh straight away?

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Speaker 1: Did you?

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Speaker 3: How had she been prior to that, to Philip coming

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Speaker 3: home very bubly and when he came home?

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Speaker 1: What was the change?

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Speaker 4: It was almost like she was careful about the words

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Speaker 4: that she said, profere that she made something say something wrong.

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Speaker 4: It so appeared to me.

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Speaker 1: Did you speak to her about that on that occasion?

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Speaker 4: No? Not dead.

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Speaker 2: When he continued his evidence on day fourteen, John remembered

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Speaker 2: the last conversation he had with Pauline at her mother's

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Speaker 2: funeral in February twenty twenty one.

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Speaker 4: She was talking about the grandkids. So Philip's eldis child

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Speaker 4: and Bruce's daughter had a child, both of them which

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Speaker 4: she called you know she was she was their grandmother,

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Speaker 4: and she was so excited about that whole process and

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Speaker 4: being part of their lives growing up. And yeah, I

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Speaker 4: mean she had a lot to look for.

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Speaker 1: You speak often about family, Oh.

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Speaker 4: Yes, yeah, and the grandchildren like they were front and

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Speaker 4: center all the time.

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Speaker 2: He spoke about how they found out Pauline died. They

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Speaker 2: returned home and there was a voicemail message from Bruce

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Speaker 2: and Rose Hannah, which was unusual. Pheasant went up to

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Speaker 2: the bedroom and rang the Hannah's back. Then he heard

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Speaker 2: his wife cry out. He then recalled Philip, telling them.

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Speaker 3: Phone no speaker or the sign was on speaker, and

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Speaker 3: just explain for us what Philip sid when he called

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Speaker 3: Pheasant in those days after Pauline's death.

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Speaker 4: So when we answered the phone, he was already and

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Speaker 4: he said, my darling wife, she's gone. I couldn't tell

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Speaker 4: you what other words he said, but that's what stuck

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Speaker 4: with me. And he was crying and yeah, it's not

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Speaker 4: an unusual emotion to have if your wife has died,

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Speaker 4: So it's okay. And then he carries on talking for

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Speaker 4: a few minutes about the loss. Yes, and it's all

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Speaker 4: at the same level of emotion. And then he talks

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Speaker 4: about the police. And the second that he starts talking

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Speaker 4: about the police, the crime has stopped. Like there is

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Speaker 4: no emotion in his voice whatsoever.

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Speaker 1: What when you say he was talking about the police,

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Speaker 1: can you recall what sort of things he was conveying

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Speaker 1: about the police.

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Speaker 4: Well, he said, the police are going to charge me

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Speaker 4: for murder. I didn't kill my wife. Well those are

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Speaker 4: the words I do know. Definitely, happened.

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Speaker 1: Which one?

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Speaker 4: Sorry, the police are going to charge me with murder.

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Speaker 2: On cross examination, Ron Mansfield asked whether John knew anyone

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Speaker 2: who'd committed suicide he has.

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Speaker 4: Do they have a lot to live for? There were

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Speaker 4: a lot of people that loved him.

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Speaker 7: Yes, so we all have a lot to live for,

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Speaker 7: don't we, Sue.

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Speaker 4: I don't think all people have a lot to live for,

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Speaker 4: but both think Paulne did have a lot to live for.

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Speaker 2: Ys Mansfield suggested John wanted to put the boot in

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Speaker 2: with his comments about Hannah having to be careful around Polkinghorn.

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Speaker 2: They spoke about the dinner in twenty twenty.

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Speaker 5: Do you think that.

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Speaker 7: Both you and Fearsant just talk this claim by Pauline

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Speaker 7: to be the alcohol.

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Speaker 4: Talking on that night? Definitely No.

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Speaker 7: Whilst she had been talking about twenty nineteen being a

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Speaker 7: terrible year for her and Philip, you didn't put too

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Speaker 7: much weight on what she had claimed, given that she

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Speaker 7: had been drinking.

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Speaker 4: I disagree.

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Speaker 2: If you took Pauline seriously, then you would have had

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Speaker 2: further discussions with her, and you didn't, Mansfield claimed. John

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Speaker 2: said they did. It's just not reflected in the texts.

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Speaker 2: Crown Prosecutor a Lesia McClintock comes back to clarify a

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Speaker 2: few things.

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Speaker 3: It's been suggested to both the context you've given to

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Speaker 3: the conversation.

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Speaker 1: At Marlow and your evidence yesterday was both. Mister Mansfield said,

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Speaker 1: putting the boot in and gilding the lily. I think

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Speaker 1: was the other one. You remember him suggesting, this.

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Speaker 3: Is anything that you've told the court about what happened

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Speaker 3: at the Marlow restaurant, Things that you've said in order

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Speaker 3: to put the boot.

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Speaker 1: No, that you've said in order to gild the lily.

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Speaker 2: No took coverage of other news events in New Zealand,

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Speaker 2: including the state of our economy post O cr Katz.

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Speaker 2: Listen to the front page The Herald's daily news podcast

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Speaker 2: wherever you get your podcasts. Pauline Hannah's doctor took to

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Speaker 2: the stand. They have named suppressions, so we can't name them,

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Speaker 2: their practice or any other identifying details. They were heard

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Speaker 2: gp for many years. They brought her medical records to

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Speaker 2: court and we've heard a bit about it from day

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Speaker 2: nine when Ron Mansfield revealed a previous suicide attempt and

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Speaker 2: her long history of taking antidepressants. You'll remember he mentioned

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Speaker 2: Hannah being given medication for alcohol use disorder. In two

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Speaker 2: thousand and four and thirteen. The witness said Hannah had

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Speaker 2: seen a specialist she wanted to control her drinking. Her

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Speaker 2: records say she was drinking a bottle of wine a

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Speaker 2: night in twenty thirteen. In twenty nineteen, Hannah said her

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Speaker 2: intake was two or more glasses of wine a night.

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Speaker 2: She would have been at the recommended limit of fourteen

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Speaker 2: units a week. She was prescribed weight loss medication in

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Speaker 2: twenty ten, something she took most of the time from

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Speaker 2: that point. While Zoppo clone, a sleeping pill, was found

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Speaker 2: in her blood, she was never prescribed it. Earlier in

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Speaker 2: the trial, we heard the Zoppa clone in her system

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Speaker 2: when she died was at a high level, suggesting a tolerance.

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Speaker 2: The witness recalled Hannah having suicidal thoughts in December twenty nineteen.

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Speaker 2: She'd never discussed them before or discussed any previous suicide attempts.

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Speaker 2: Cross examinations saw the GP asked more about psychiatrist visits.

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Speaker 2: In twenty thirteen. A note in her records said the

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Speaker 2: psychiatrist noted Na wanted to detox from alcohol and take

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Speaker 2: ant abuse, a medication used in the treatment of alcohol

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Speaker 2: use disorders. In twenty seventeen, Hannah was again prescribed now

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Speaker 2: treksone by another doctor after raising concerns about her drinking.

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Speaker 2: It's used to manage cravings. Defense lawyer Hannah Stewart questioned

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Speaker 2: the doctor about why Pauline was taking the weight loss

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Speaker 2: drug duramine, given it's meant to be short term. No,

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Speaker 2: but it's not uncommon, they said, so, just because others

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Speaker 2: do it, that makes it okay, asked Stuart. They're asked

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Speaker 2: about why Hannah was kept on the medication for eleven

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Speaker 2: years without being weighed. The witness reiterates Hannah didn't have

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Speaker 2: any side effects and appeared to be maintaining her weight.

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Speaker 2: Stewart is intending to call evidence suggesting a link between

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Speaker 2: the use of duramine and other drugs with an elevated

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Speaker 2: suicide risk. In December twenty nineteen, Hannah had reported her

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Speaker 2: mother was an hospital, her husband had left her. She

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Speaker 2: was crying, and the GP referred her to the crisis team.

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Speaker 2: She's expressed suicidal thoughts. The GP called her the following morning,

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Speaker 2: and Hannah said she was feeling better. When the trial

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Speaker 2: resumed on day fifteen, Susan Ormond was called to the stand.

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Speaker 2: She's an ophthalmologist at Auckland Eye and the clinical director.

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Speaker 2: She met Philip Polkinghorn in two thousand and one when

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Speaker 2: they both worked at Auckland DHB. They had a good

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Speaker 2: relationship and friendship and socialized outside of work. She'd met

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Speaker 2: Pauline many times. Crown Prosecutor Pitt McNabb asked about whether

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Speaker 2: there'd been concerns about Polkinghorn at work in the one

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Speaker 2: to two year period before Hannah's death as a clinical director.

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Speaker 2: Ormond said there'd been people who expressed concerns about certain

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Speaker 2: aspects of patient care and him being irritable with staff

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Speaker 2: in the theater.

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Speaker 6: There were some concerns that he was generally more irritable,

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Speaker 6: just generally, not just in theater. I mean, I certainly

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Speaker 6: found him more irritable than usual, but you know, there

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Speaker 6: were sort of we're having problems at Auckland.

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Speaker 2: I Philip gone to her and her husband's home for

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Speaker 2: lunch the day before Pauline's funeral. There he made a

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Speaker 2: couple of revelations. He was worried about them coming out.

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Speaker 6: So he said, well, what were those things? And the

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Speaker 6: first thing he actually mentioned was regarding his and Pauline's

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Speaker 6: sex life. And then when we asked what the other

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Speaker 6: thing was he was worried about, he said drugs, to

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Speaker 6: which I said what sort of drugs, to which he replied, meth.

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Speaker 3: Did he offer any further explanation of what exactly he

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Speaker 3: was worried about in terms.

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Speaker 6: Of myth coming out, well, the conversation at that point

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Speaker 6: we were quite shocked. We weren't expecting, you know, we

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Speaker 6: weren't expecting to hear him say meth. And the conversation really.

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Speaker 5: Was around, you know, sort of what do you mean meth?

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Speaker 6: You taking meth kind of thing, and he he wasn't

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Speaker 6: specific about whether it was he or appauling, but he

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Speaker 6: talked about it as if it was both of them,

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Speaker 6: you know, we use meth or whatever. He asked if

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Speaker 6: we'd ever tried meth, to which we said no, and

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Speaker 6: he said, well you should.

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Speaker 2: Almond then told the company lawyer and phone the Medical

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Speaker 2: Protection Society.

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Speaker 5: It was a very difficult position.

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Speaker 6: On the one hand, you know, this was a close

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Speaker 6: friend and colleague who was with us for support and

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Speaker 6: was telling us things in confidence, and obviously we want

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Speaker 6: to keep those things confidential.

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Speaker 5: But at the same time, as clinical director.

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Speaker 6: You know, one of my obligations is very much to

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Speaker 6: make sure that all the patients we see are safe

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Speaker 6: and receive the highest quality treatment. And to find out

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Speaker 6: that one of the doctors had been using math was

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Speaker 6: a considerable concern.

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Speaker 2: On cross examination, Ron Mansfield, as he did with another witness,

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Speaker 2: had Ormond show how Polkinghorn worked long hours in both

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Speaker 2: the public and private systems and at Auckland Medical School,

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Speaker 2: where he helped with training and research. Ormond told police

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Speaker 2: Hannah and Polkinghorn were a perfectly normal couple and she

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Speaker 2: never saw him put down, control, manipulate or abuse his wife.

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Speaker 2: Onto his delayed retirement due to two doctors leaving unexpectedly

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Speaker 2: that set up another practice and the cost of solicitors

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Speaker 2: was larger than the amount due to be paid out,

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Speaker 2: it caused considerable disruption to Auckland. Die could this have

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Speaker 2: contributed to him being agitated?

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Speaker 7: And I think you saw that frustration yourself by way

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Speaker 7: of him being slightly more agitated, as you put it,

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Speaker 7: than he might ordinarily be in certain circumstances.

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Speaker 5: Now I said, irritable, but yes, irritable, Thank you.

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Speaker 2: Ormond would last sea Hannah alive at a crowded house

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Speaker 2: concert at Spark Arena on March twenty first, twenty twenty one.

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Speaker 2: Mark Connolly is the chair of the board at Auckland Eye,

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Speaker 2: an independent director who joined in twenty nineteen and became

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Speaker 2: chair in twenty twenty. He's not a clinician or shareholder.

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Speaker 2: Like other witnesses, he chose not to be recorded. While

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Speaker 2: much of the tensions at auckland I over the sudden

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Speaker 2: departure of two shareholders was before his time, he said

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Speaker 2: the circumstances were controversial, sudden, and unexpected. On Polkinghorn's retirement issues,

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Speaker 2: he was initially planning on leaving sometime in twenty twenty.

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Speaker 2: A doctor was arriving from overseas and Polkinghorn was keen

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Speaker 2: to have him take over some of his patients, Connolly remembers,

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Speaker 2: so they settled on June thirty, twenty twenty two, as

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Speaker 2: a final date. Polkinghorn was concerned about his payout, which

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Speaker 2: we heard earlier in the trial was lower than what

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Speaker 2: was offered to those two doctors who abruptly left. Connolly

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Speaker 2: said he wasn't happy about that and wanted, at a minimum,

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Speaker 2: the same amount the others got. They got six hundred

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Speaker 2: and fifty thousand dollars, while he was offered about three

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Speaker 2: hundred and sixty thousand. We heard the other day it'd

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Speaker 2: eventually be four hundred and fifty thousand dollars. Connolly agrees

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Speaker 2: Polkinghorn wanted more, and he confirmed. He replied saying he

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Speaker 2: couldn't because otherwise other specialists set to retire would be

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Speaker 2: knocking on my door asking for the same package. She said.

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Speaker 2: The first week Connolly was made chair in twenty twenty,

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Speaker 2: the chief executive rang him and said, we've discovered a

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Speaker 2: meth pipe in the practice that pulled CCTV for the

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Speaker 2: previous weekend. Four or five people had come into the practice, Polkinghorn,

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Speaker 2: a cleaner, the CEO and CFO. The pipe was found

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Speaker 2: in a preparation room, a room used by ophthalmologists. Fast

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Speaker 2: forward to a meeting in May twenty twenty one after

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Speaker 2: Hannah's death, and his colleague Susan Ormond would reveal Polkinghorn

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Speaker 2: had told her he was a meth user. Ron Mansfield

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Speaker 2: asked Connolly about the pipe discovery. It happened on a

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Speaker 2: Monday morning. There was a young patient in the prep

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Speaker 2: room on the Thursday or Friday before Connolly confirmed the

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Speaker 2: meth pipe was handed over to police. He isn't sure

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Speaker 2: if it was fingerprinted or DNA tested. The trial continues

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Speaker 2: next week. You can listen to episodes of Accused the

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Speaker 2: Polkinghorn Trial through the Front Page podcast feed or find

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Speaker 2: it on iHeartRadio or wherever you get your podcasts. This

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Speaker 2: series is presented and produced by me Chelsea Annuals, with

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Speaker 2: producer Ethan Sills and sound engineer Paddy Fox. Additional reporting

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Speaker 2: from the Heralds Craig Captan and George Block and for

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Speaker 2: more coverage of the Polkinghorn Trial head to enzedhrold dot

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Speaker 2: co dot nz