1
00:00:05,480 --> 00:00:05,880
Speaker 1: Kiyota.

2
00:00:06,000 --> 00:00:09,119
Speaker 2: I'm Chelsea Daniels and this is the Front Page, a

3
00:00:09,240 --> 00:00:16,960
Speaker 2: daily podcast presented by the New Zealand Herald. Rmps have

4
00:00:17,160 --> 00:00:21,959
Speaker 2: stakes in a combined three hundred and seventy nine million

5
00:00:22,040 --> 00:00:26,040
Speaker 2: dollars worth of property in New Zealand. A Herald investigation

6
00:00:26,200 --> 00:00:29,400
Speaker 2: has found that is an average of three point one

7
00:00:29,640 --> 00:00:33,440
Speaker 2: six million dollars across each of our one hundred and

8
00:00:33,479 --> 00:00:38,160
Speaker 2: twenty members of Parliament, and despite the rumors, Prime Minister

9
00:00:38,280 --> 00:00:42,879
Speaker 2: Christopher Luxen doesn't top the list as the most lavish

10
00:00:43,440 --> 00:00:46,600
Speaker 2: Today on the front page ends at Herald. Data journalist

11
00:00:46,680 --> 00:00:49,640
Speaker 2: Chris Knox is with us to dive into the numbers

12
00:00:50,000 --> 00:00:59,440
Speaker 2: and discuss why it matters. First off, Chris, what motivated

13
00:00:59,520 --> 00:01:04,120
Speaker 2: you to investigate and compile this data on MP's property

14
00:01:04,200 --> 00:01:07,840
Speaker 2: ownership and what challenges did you face when gathering this information?

15
00:01:08,240 --> 00:01:11,280
Speaker 1: Well, I guess from the motivation point of view, I

16
00:01:11,319 --> 00:01:15,399
Speaker 1: think that it's an important thing to understand what MPs,

17
00:01:16,400 --> 00:01:18,679
Speaker 1: how much property they have, and how they may or

18
00:01:18,720 --> 00:01:23,560
Speaker 1: may not impact their decision making. It's something that Parliament

19
00:01:23,680 --> 00:01:26,920
Speaker 1: kind of recognizes as being important by making MPs to

20
00:01:27,000 --> 00:01:30,360
Speaker 1: clear what they have, but they don't actually ask them

21
00:01:30,400 --> 00:01:34,280
Speaker 1: to declare what it's worth. So we decided to kind

22
00:01:34,280 --> 00:01:36,240
Speaker 1: of take it a little bit a step further and

23
00:01:36,280 --> 00:01:39,479
Speaker 1: find out what the property is that they declared were worth,

24
00:01:39,520 --> 00:01:42,640
Speaker 1: which is something the Herald had previously done in twenty thirteen.

25
00:01:43,160 --> 00:01:45,039
Speaker 1: So we're also sort of it's like, well, you know,

26
00:01:45,040 --> 00:01:48,520
Speaker 1: it's been twelve years, let's revisit it and see how.

27
00:01:48,440 --> 00:01:49,120
Speaker 3: Things have changed.

28
00:01:49,720 --> 00:01:51,200
Speaker 2: So you knew where to look.

29
00:01:52,240 --> 00:01:56,440
Speaker 1: Yes, we knew where we were starting from the register.

30
00:01:57,040 --> 00:01:59,360
Speaker 2: Who are the top five and what do they own

31
00:01:59,400 --> 00:02:00,520
Speaker 2: and how much is it worth?

32
00:02:02,080 --> 00:02:06,240
Speaker 1: So the total portfolio is worth about three hundred and

33
00:02:06,280 --> 00:02:10,200
Speaker 1: eighty million or three seventy nine million, and Sue's redmain

34
00:02:10,560 --> 00:02:16,639
Speaker 1: is who's the new national MP for Rangotikei. She as

35
00:02:16,720 --> 00:02:20,320
Speaker 1: the top with twenty four about twenty four million, most

36
00:02:20,320 --> 00:02:24,680
Speaker 1: of which is a large farm worth eighteen million. Interestingly enough,

37
00:02:25,040 --> 00:02:31,000
Speaker 1: she took over assumed office after Ian Mcalvey retired and

38
00:02:31,040 --> 00:02:34,960
Speaker 1: he was the previous top so it's obviously farms in

39
00:02:34,960 --> 00:02:37,560
Speaker 1: that area are clearly worth quite a bit of money.

40
00:02:38,200 --> 00:02:39,720
Speaker 3: He was worth a lot more. I think more like

41
00:02:39,760 --> 00:02:41,200
Speaker 3: sixty million if I remember correctly.

42
00:02:41,520 --> 00:02:41,920
Speaker 1: Oh wow.

43
00:02:42,000 --> 00:02:45,440
Speaker 2: So Luxon is often rumored to have the most significant

44
00:02:45,480 --> 00:02:50,480
Speaker 2: property assets. But he came in second, right.

45
00:02:50,400 --> 00:02:55,720
Speaker 1: He did, Yes, yes, certainly he had the most significant

46
00:02:55,960 --> 00:03:00,320
Speaker 1: residential property assets, so if you exclude farms to come

47
00:03:00,360 --> 00:03:02,560
Speaker 1: in first. But yeah, so he has a couple of

48
00:03:02,600 --> 00:03:06,360
Speaker 1: houses in Auckland worth about seven million each and one

49
00:03:06,800 --> 00:03:07,560
Speaker 1: rental property.

50
00:03:07,919 --> 00:03:09,960
Speaker 2: So who came in at three, four and five?

51
00:03:10,800 --> 00:03:15,560
Speaker 1: So third was another national farming MP and Barbara Krueger

52
00:03:15,919 --> 00:03:19,480
Speaker 1: who's the national MP for the Taranaki kin Country. She

53
00:03:19,520 --> 00:03:22,680
Speaker 1: has about fourteen and a half million dollars worth of property,

54
00:03:23,960 --> 00:03:27,079
Speaker 1: has declared interest in that and again quite a bit

55
00:03:27,120 --> 00:03:32,280
Speaker 1: of that's farming. Fourth was cal Bates who is the

56
00:03:32,360 --> 00:03:35,880
Speaker 1: national MP for Wanganui. And then fifth on the list

57
00:03:36,040 --> 00:03:40,560
Speaker 1: was the first non national MP, so Panji Palma, who's

58
00:03:40,560 --> 00:03:44,480
Speaker 1: an act MP, has about eleven million worth of property

59
00:03:44,480 --> 00:03:44,960
Speaker 1: in Ackland.

60
00:03:45,200 --> 00:03:50,680
Speaker 2: So some MPs have this complicated property asset interest kind

61
00:03:50,680 --> 00:03:54,080
Speaker 2: of thing involving trust. You've got company shareholdings and things

62
00:03:54,120 --> 00:03:57,560
Speaker 2: like that. You just mentioned Old Maiden Wanganui. Was it?

63
00:03:59,240 --> 00:04:03,400
Speaker 2: Why is trust ownerships so prevalent among MPs?

64
00:04:04,520 --> 00:04:06,440
Speaker 3: I don't know if I have a good answer for that.

65
00:04:07,200 --> 00:04:08,560
Speaker 2: Is it just what rich people do?

66
00:04:09,440 --> 00:04:10,640
Speaker 3: I think that's part of it.

67
00:04:10,720 --> 00:04:13,800
Speaker 1: I think that and there's a bit of commentary round

68
00:04:13,840 --> 00:04:16,920
Speaker 1: because I was trying to work out, like so, I

69
00:04:17,000 --> 00:04:19,320
Speaker 1: think I found that there were forty seven MPs that

70
00:04:19,480 --> 00:04:23,480
Speaker 1: use trusts, which is over a third, and I was

71
00:04:23,520 --> 00:04:26,160
Speaker 1: trying to work out what percentage of New Zealanders used

72
00:04:26,200 --> 00:04:30,320
Speaker 1: trusts and couldn't find kind of good numbers on that.

73
00:04:30,360 --> 00:04:32,960
Speaker 1: There were some estimates from two thousand and six from

74
00:04:33,120 --> 00:04:36,360
Speaker 1: IID to I believe, and they were sort of about

75
00:04:36,400 --> 00:04:39,000
Speaker 1: ten percent. But I think it's reasonable. Its hum that, yeah,

76
00:04:39,000 --> 00:04:41,080
Speaker 1: the MP usage is higher, but I think part of

77
00:04:41,120 --> 00:04:44,040
Speaker 1: that is just that a lot of MPs have been

78
00:04:44,080 --> 00:04:46,839
Speaker 1: in business for quite a long time before they became MPs.

79
00:04:47,320 --> 00:04:51,720
Speaker 1: Certainly farmers make a lot of use of trusts, and

80
00:04:51,800 --> 00:04:54,240
Speaker 1: so I just think that anyone was kind of subset

81
00:04:54,320 --> 00:04:57,640
Speaker 1: your property holdings and also property holdings that kind of

82
00:04:58,120 --> 00:04:59,880
Speaker 1: run across multiple family members.

83
00:05:00,200 --> 00:05:02,360
Speaker 3: Trusts seem to be the.

84
00:05:02,320 --> 00:05:05,920
Speaker 1: Other thing I think is that trusts were I think

85
00:05:05,920 --> 00:05:07,760
Speaker 1: this has been some commentary that trust is sort of

86
00:05:07,800 --> 00:05:12,400
Speaker 1: overused in New Zealand up until the rules tightened up

87
00:05:12,640 --> 00:05:15,080
Speaker 1: after the Panama papers came out a few years ago.

88
00:05:15,360 --> 00:05:20,240
Speaker 1: So I think now there are costs, so that the

89
00:05:20,360 --> 00:05:24,719
Speaker 1: costs associated with trusts make it something that you have

90
00:05:24,760 --> 00:05:27,000
Speaker 1: to have a real reason to do, whereas previously it

91
00:05:27,040 --> 00:05:27,760
Speaker 1: was just kind of.

92
00:05:29,120 --> 00:05:34,920
Speaker 2: Why not, Well, how transparent is the current disclosure regime

93
00:05:34,960 --> 00:05:37,359
Speaker 2: and do you think that gives the public a full

94
00:05:37,440 --> 00:05:39,719
Speaker 2: picture of an MP's wealth.

95
00:05:40,000 --> 00:05:42,640
Speaker 1: I mean, I guess it's not. The disclosure regime is

96
00:05:42,640 --> 00:05:45,200
Speaker 1: not intended to give a picture of their wealth, just

97
00:05:45,560 --> 00:05:50,560
Speaker 1: the things they have interests in. I think it's reasonably transparent,

98
00:05:50,720 --> 00:05:54,520
Speaker 1: but it does it is a very it assumes good

99
00:05:54,520 --> 00:05:58,400
Speaker 1: behavior by the MPs, so there's a very little enforcement

100
00:05:58,640 --> 00:06:01,719
Speaker 1: kind of that. There's no like the registrar doesn't check

101
00:06:02,560 --> 00:06:06,279
Speaker 1: that MPs have declared things correctly. It's it's kind of

102
00:06:06,440 --> 00:06:08,919
Speaker 1: entirely up to them, and it's only when the media

103
00:06:09,160 --> 00:06:12,200
Speaker 1: raw or another party kind of starts digging around that

104
00:06:12,200 --> 00:06:15,000
Speaker 1: that things kind of may get referred up to an inquiry.

105
00:06:16,200 --> 00:06:18,560
Speaker 1: But it isn't like it's not there's not a process

106
00:06:18,600 --> 00:06:22,920
Speaker 1: in place where where so the MP's are given guidance

107
00:06:22,960 --> 00:06:25,880
Speaker 1: and then they make I do think that though the

108
00:06:26,000 --> 00:06:30,120
Speaker 1: guidance could be tightened up, like I've noticed a lot

109
00:06:30,360 --> 00:06:36,000
Speaker 1: like there's quite a bit of variation between different MPs declarations,

110
00:06:36,880 --> 00:06:41,240
Speaker 1: like for example, the national MP for Kaka has declared

111
00:06:41,560 --> 00:06:45,080
Speaker 1: an incredible detail all of his shareholdings, and then other

112
00:06:45,120 --> 00:06:48,560
Speaker 1: people have sent to follow a much more kind of

113
00:06:49,160 --> 00:06:53,599
Speaker 1: sort of vibe based approach, and some some some MP's

114
00:06:53,640 --> 00:06:57,279
Speaker 1: are declaring very like you know this pay of rental

115
00:06:57,320 --> 00:07:01,279
Speaker 1: property in this suburb, and then other just like residential

116
00:07:01,320 --> 00:07:04,839
Speaker 1: property in Auckland, and you're like, you know, so there's

117
00:07:04,920 --> 00:07:08,120
Speaker 1: quite this sort of variation and I think it would

118
00:07:08,160 --> 00:07:11,000
Speaker 1: be good to have a bit more consistency.

119
00:07:10,520 --> 00:07:18,360
Speaker 3: In the process. It has made up a big part

120
00:07:18,400 --> 00:07:19,760
Speaker 3: of the election campaign so far.

121
00:07:20,000 --> 00:07:23,400
Speaker 2: Your party has repeatedly insinuated that labor is planning a

122
00:07:23,440 --> 00:07:24,440
Speaker 2: capital gains tax.

123
00:07:25,240 --> 00:07:26,360
Speaker 3: How many houses do you own?

124
00:07:27,240 --> 00:07:30,320
Speaker 1: I've been upfront seven houses. There are one hundred and

125
00:07:30,360 --> 00:07:31,520
Speaker 1: twenty MP's in parliament.

126
00:07:31,520 --> 00:07:32,880
Speaker 2: Who owns the most houses?

127
00:07:33,120 --> 00:07:34,040
Speaker 1: I have no idea.

128
00:07:34,400 --> 00:07:36,400
Speaker 3: Is there any MP you can name who owns more

129
00:07:36,400 --> 00:07:37,000
Speaker 3: houses than you?

130
00:07:37,360 --> 00:07:38,040
Speaker 2: Don't nijack?

131
00:07:38,520 --> 00:07:40,240
Speaker 3: Is there any MP you can name that owns more

132
00:07:40,280 --> 00:07:42,440
Speaker 3: houses than you? I don't know.

133
00:07:42,480 --> 00:07:43,640
Speaker 1: I don't have a clue who owns what?

134
00:07:45,960 --> 00:07:49,440
Speaker 2: Why is it important for MPs to declare property and

135
00:07:49,480 --> 00:07:52,880
Speaker 2: I guess other financial interests? What are the parliamentary rules

136
00:07:53,120 --> 00:07:57,000
Speaker 2: around that kind of transparency basically, so they don't go

137
00:07:57,040 --> 00:07:59,120
Speaker 2: and make decisions. You know, I've got a house in

138
00:07:59,200 --> 00:08:02,840
Speaker 2: COUI coulda for instance, and there's a big development happening.

139
00:08:02,920 --> 00:08:06,440
Speaker 2: I have the power to do something about it, right, Yeah.

140
00:08:06,520 --> 00:08:12,520
Speaker 1: Basically it's to provide transparency about the kind of parliamentary process,

141
00:08:12,640 --> 00:08:18,920
Speaker 1: and I think that often I suspect that that often

142
00:08:19,280 --> 00:08:23,200
Speaker 1: there's more of a like an assumption of kind of wrongdoing.

143
00:08:24,400 --> 00:08:26,120
Speaker 3: You know, like if there's.

144
00:08:25,960 --> 00:08:29,760
Speaker 1: No information, then it's very easy to kind of start

145
00:08:29,800 --> 00:08:34,320
Speaker 1: speculating about what might be behind decisions, Whereas if the

146
00:08:34,400 --> 00:08:36,640
Speaker 1: information is out there, then you can just kind of

147
00:08:36,679 --> 00:08:40,560
Speaker 1: have a look and be like, okay, you know that

148
00:08:40,679 --> 00:08:43,319
Speaker 1: this that they had these properties, and you know it

149
00:08:43,480 --> 00:08:46,360
Speaker 1: probably didn't impact it, or maybe it did or It

150
00:08:46,440 --> 00:08:50,920
Speaker 1: is interesting though that the local government rules are much

151
00:08:50,960 --> 00:08:54,640
Speaker 1: stricter in terms of it. Once you've declared an interest

152
00:08:55,520 --> 00:08:59,720
Speaker 1: in at least in some of the local government meetings

153
00:08:59,720 --> 00:09:02,440
Speaker 1: that I've seemed, if you have a conflict interest, then

154
00:09:02,440 --> 00:09:06,320
Speaker 1: you actually recruit yourself from that meeting, whereas at a

155
00:09:06,360 --> 00:09:10,640
Speaker 1: parliamentary level, it's more just that declared and then it

156
00:09:10,640 --> 00:09:15,600
Speaker 1: doesn't actually impact that you're kind of your decision making process.

157
00:09:16,440 --> 00:09:19,400
Speaker 2: Should there be better safeguards in place to make sure

158
00:09:19,400 --> 00:09:23,120
Speaker 2: that MPs don't make those policy decisions in relation to

159
00:09:23,200 --> 00:09:26,079
Speaker 2: what they own or what kind of interests they might have.

160
00:09:26,160 --> 00:09:26,760
Speaker 2: Do you think?

161
00:09:27,800 --> 00:09:31,480
Speaker 3: I think it would get pretty tricky.

162
00:09:31,320 --> 00:09:33,360
Speaker 2: You know, because you can, you were, one person can

163
00:09:33,400 --> 00:09:37,040
Speaker 2: say I've got shares in New Zealand, and then one

164
00:09:37,040 --> 00:09:40,360
Speaker 2: person can say my cousin's sister works for New Zealand

165
00:09:40,480 --> 00:09:40,959
Speaker 2: or something.

166
00:09:41,400 --> 00:09:43,400
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, I think that you would land up

167
00:09:43,400 --> 00:09:46,440
Speaker 1: with kind of half of the MPs having to recuse

168
00:09:46,480 --> 00:09:49,600
Speaker 1: themselves from most you know, so many sort of the

169
00:09:49,640 --> 00:09:52,000
Speaker 1: decisions that are made at a national level can have

170
00:09:52,040 --> 00:09:56,040
Speaker 1: such a big impact, you know, and like particularly when

171
00:09:56,040 --> 00:10:00,640
Speaker 1: you look at the so there was a three million

172
00:10:00,679 --> 00:10:03,600
Speaker 1: dollars of property roughly per MP, but if you look

173
00:10:03,640 --> 00:10:07,480
Speaker 1: at it per party, then the Act and National MPs

174
00:10:07,480 --> 00:10:09,800
Speaker 1: are sitting in more like four and a half million each,

175
00:10:10,840 --> 00:10:12,640
Speaker 1: and so that's getting up to be quite a lot

176
00:10:12,679 --> 00:10:16,720
Speaker 1: of kind of interest in property. And so then you know,

177
00:10:16,800 --> 00:10:18,920
Speaker 1: do you need to get every national and Act MP

178
00:10:19,120 --> 00:10:22,520
Speaker 1: to accuse themselves from any decision that might impact property prices?

179
00:10:22,559 --> 00:10:25,079
Speaker 1: Which is kind of you know, for all the decisions

180
00:10:25,559 --> 00:10:27,280
Speaker 1: or not quite but you know, certainly there's a lot

181
00:10:27,280 --> 00:10:31,079
Speaker 1: of rules that Parliament can can consider which may or

182
00:10:31,160 --> 00:10:33,000
Speaker 1: may not impact property prices.

183
00:10:33,640 --> 00:10:38,040
Speaker 2: Yeah, well, your article mentions restoring mortgage interest deductibility for

184
00:10:38,160 --> 00:10:40,439
Speaker 2: landlords as a significant policy change.

185
00:10:40,480 --> 00:10:42,360
Speaker 3: Obviously, how did.

186
00:10:42,200 --> 00:10:45,520
Speaker 2: You estimate potential financial impacts for MPs and what did

187
00:10:45,559 --> 00:10:46,360
Speaker 2: that reveal?

188
00:10:47,520 --> 00:10:50,200
Speaker 1: Yeah, so I was able to look at a number

189
00:10:50,240 --> 00:10:53,880
Speaker 1: of MPs who declared that they had rental properties, and

190
00:10:53,920 --> 00:10:57,280
Speaker 1: then you can see from records how much they paid

191
00:10:57,720 --> 00:11:00,920
Speaker 1: for those properties and how long ago it was. So

192
00:11:01,640 --> 00:11:04,800
Speaker 1: if and then you have to start making big assumptions,

193
00:11:05,240 --> 00:11:07,800
Speaker 1: which is why we didn't name any MPs for this,

194
00:11:08,000 --> 00:11:10,680
Speaker 1: because the assumption. You know, obviously I have no idea

195
00:11:10,720 --> 00:11:15,160
Speaker 1: what an individual mpiece loan structure is, but if you

196
00:11:15,320 --> 00:11:19,080
Speaker 1: kind of generally, you know, there's a requirement at the

197
00:11:19,080 --> 00:11:21,679
Speaker 1: moment that I think, I think there may be some

198
00:11:21,840 --> 00:11:23,840
Speaker 1: move a foot to change it, but at the moment,

199
00:11:24,240 --> 00:11:28,120
Speaker 1: you need a thirty percent deposit for a rental property

200
00:11:28,240 --> 00:11:31,520
Speaker 1: or an investment property. So if we just assume that

201
00:11:31,640 --> 00:11:35,200
Speaker 1: those properties were bought with a loan equal to seven

202
00:11:35,520 --> 00:11:38,840
Speaker 1: seventy percent of the value of the property, and that

203
00:11:38,960 --> 00:11:41,680
Speaker 1: the loan was set for a thirty year term, and

204
00:11:41,720 --> 00:11:44,680
Speaker 1: that the interest rate on average was six percent, which

205
00:11:44,679 --> 00:11:47,760
Speaker 1: is kind of roughly what average interest rates over time are.

206
00:11:48,240 --> 00:11:52,199
Speaker 1: Then you can go on to something like the sorted

207
00:11:53,120 --> 00:11:57,760
Speaker 1: mortgage calculator and see what what the what amount of

208
00:11:57,760 --> 00:11:59,839
Speaker 1: interest is being paid after a certain number of years.

209
00:12:00,080 --> 00:12:02,800
Speaker 1: So one MP I looked at after seventeen years of

210
00:12:03,640 --> 00:12:07,040
Speaker 1: paying that mortgage, that'd be looking at about fifty thousand

211
00:12:07,360 --> 00:12:12,640
Speaker 1: a year in interest payments. And so if and you

212
00:12:12,640 --> 00:12:16,319
Speaker 1: can also assume that all MPs are any extra in

213
00:12:16,400 --> 00:12:17,880
Speaker 1: can they gets going to be in the thirty nine

214
00:12:17,920 --> 00:12:20,400
Speaker 1: percent tax bracket because it's probably over one hundred and

215
00:12:20,440 --> 00:12:25,480
Speaker 1: eighty thousand, and so then they're able to deduct that.

216
00:12:26,280 --> 00:12:28,400
Speaker 1: So if they've got extra income, then they can deduct

217
00:12:28,559 --> 00:12:32,400
Speaker 1: fifty thousand from their income and in the thirty nine

218
00:12:32,400 --> 00:12:34,480
Speaker 1: percent tax bracket that's going to be about twenty thousand.

219
00:12:34,480 --> 00:12:38,040
Speaker 2: Back tell me, Chris, why does this all matter?

220
00:12:38,200 --> 00:12:38,920
Speaker 3: Do you think?

221
00:12:39,920 --> 00:12:44,600
Speaker 1: I think it's just important to understand whereut what our

222
00:12:44,720 --> 00:12:48,920
Speaker 1: MP's own, and what they're doing and how those decisions could,

223
00:12:49,000 --> 00:12:53,839
Speaker 1: how any decisions they make could impact their personal situations.

224
00:12:54,600 --> 00:13:00,480
Speaker 1: For example, that the MPs are sitting on almost two

225
00:13:00,559 --> 00:13:04,880
Speaker 1: hundred million worth of family homes and you know, and

226
00:13:04,920 --> 00:13:08,559
Speaker 1: there's there's constant discussions on around things like capital gains tax,

227
00:13:08,600 --> 00:13:12,280
Speaker 1: wealth tax, you know, which isn't say, you know, I'm

228
00:13:12,280 --> 00:13:15,040
Speaker 1: not putting forward whether any of those things are the

229
00:13:15,160 --> 00:13:17,960
Speaker 1: right policy. But I think that that you have to

230
00:13:18,120 --> 00:13:22,760
Speaker 1: look at an MP's holdings to really understand how they

231
00:13:23,040 --> 00:13:27,280
Speaker 1: whether they are considering those things kind of from looking

232
00:13:27,320 --> 00:13:31,880
Speaker 1: at a future like what is the tax structure of

233
00:13:31,920 --> 00:13:34,560
Speaker 1: New Zealand how is it going to look going forward

234
00:13:34,559 --> 00:13:36,600
Speaker 1: that sort of thing. Are they actually able to consider

235
00:13:36,720 --> 00:13:41,160
Speaker 1: things from from kind of the nation's point of view

236
00:13:41,320 --> 00:13:47,520
Speaker 1: or are they too drawn into their own own portfolios?

237
00:13:48,760 --> 00:13:50,679
Speaker 2: And a lot of trust goes with that as well,

238
00:13:50,720 --> 00:13:53,000
Speaker 2: And like you said, a lot we trust people and

239
00:13:53,320 --> 00:13:55,840
Speaker 2: especially MPs to just do the right thing.

240
00:13:55,880 --> 00:13:59,960
Speaker 1: Hey, yes we do. And so yeah, and I think

241
00:14:00,080 --> 00:14:02,720
Speaker 1: that being able to see what they have. The other

242
00:14:02,720 --> 00:14:05,440
Speaker 1: thing too is that it's not you know, being rich

243
00:14:05,559 --> 00:14:08,200
Speaker 1: is not necessarily a bad thing, you know, And so

244
00:14:08,240 --> 00:14:14,080
Speaker 1: I think if it's also good to see what it

245
00:14:14,120 --> 00:14:16,320
Speaker 1: gives us a message of where amps have come from

246
00:14:16,880 --> 00:14:19,640
Speaker 1: and what they've done. And you can see, you know,

247
00:14:19,640 --> 00:14:22,360
Speaker 1: you can see their involvement in farming and that sort

248
00:14:22,400 --> 00:14:24,920
Speaker 1: of thing as well as part of this process.

249
00:14:24,640 --> 00:14:27,200
Speaker 2: When you were digging into the numbers and seeing how

250
00:14:27,280 --> 00:14:30,160
Speaker 2: much each person owns and everything. I mean, was there

251
00:14:30,160 --> 00:14:34,160
Speaker 2: anyone apart from the top five, say, was there any

252
00:14:34,200 --> 00:14:36,960
Speaker 2: other people that stuck out to you that you thought,

253
00:14:37,040 --> 00:14:38,320
Speaker 2: huh interesting?

254
00:14:39,040 --> 00:14:43,200
Speaker 1: Not particularly, I mean there was obviously Carl Waits popped

255
00:14:43,200 --> 00:14:45,760
Speaker 1: out as there was something interesting going on.

256
00:14:45,960 --> 00:14:49,200
Speaker 2: There because his family ended up being one of the

257
00:14:49,840 --> 00:14:52,280
Speaker 2: largest landlords in that area.

258
00:14:52,440 --> 00:14:54,680
Speaker 3: Hey, yes, that certainly.

259
00:14:54,440 --> 00:14:57,280
Speaker 1: Looks like there were one of the largest private landels

260
00:14:58,040 --> 00:15:01,600
Speaker 1: in his own electorate, which is an interesting situation to

261
00:15:01,640 --> 00:15:05,840
Speaker 1: be in, and one I think that ought to.

262
00:15:05,840 --> 00:15:06,800
Speaker 3: Be more transparent.

263
00:15:07,480 --> 00:15:09,400
Speaker 1: I think actually one of the things that I was

264
00:15:10,040 --> 00:15:13,520
Speaker 1: surprised by was that, compared to the last time the

265
00:15:13,560 --> 00:15:19,600
Speaker 1: Herald did it, the kind of the headline numbers aren't

266
00:15:19,640 --> 00:15:27,520
Speaker 1: actually that large. So for example, Ian Mcalvey was worth

267
00:15:27,520 --> 00:15:30,720
Speaker 1: on the era of about sixty million in twenty thirteen,

268
00:15:31,760 --> 00:15:38,360
Speaker 1: and John keyes properties were worth far more than the

269
00:15:38,400 --> 00:15:42,120
Speaker 1: Prime Minister's properties now and so it's almost like this

270
00:15:43,240 --> 00:15:47,680
Speaker 1: twelve years later Parliament actually in some way says less

271
00:15:47,920 --> 00:15:53,040
Speaker 1: property holdings than they did previously, And there was kind

272
00:15:53,040 --> 00:15:58,520
Speaker 1: of there wasn't anyone whose property holdings kind of would

273
00:15:58,600 --> 00:16:01,720
Speaker 1: reach into that sort of mega which certainly there's some

274
00:16:01,800 --> 00:16:06,440
Speaker 1: quite wealthy people then, but you know there are there

275
00:16:06,440 --> 00:16:07,280
Speaker 1: are people in New.

276
00:16:07,200 --> 00:16:10,520
Speaker 3: Zealand who own considerably more than anyone in Parliament.

277
00:16:10,840 --> 00:16:12,240
Speaker 2: Thanks for joining us, Chris.

278
00:16:12,520 --> 00:16:12,560
Speaker 3: No.

279
00:16:16,600 --> 00:16:19,800
Speaker 2: That's it for this episode of the Front Page. You

280
00:16:19,840 --> 00:16:23,760
Speaker 2: can read more about today's stories and extensive news coverage

281
00:16:23,760 --> 00:16:27,880
Speaker 2: at enzidherld dot co dot nz. The Front Page is

282
00:16:27,920 --> 00:16:31,280
Speaker 2: produced by Jane Ye and Richard Martin, who is also

283
00:16:31,520 --> 00:16:36,040
Speaker 2: our editor. I'm Chelsea Daniels. Subscribe to the Front Page

284
00:16:36,040 --> 00:16:39,680
Speaker 2: on iHeartRadio or wherever you get your podcasts, and tune

285
00:16:39,720 --> 00:16:42,760
Speaker 2: in tomorrow for another look behind the headlines.