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Speaker 1: Keeping track of where the money is flowing. The business hour.

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Speaker 2: We'd hand the duplicy eleans for the trusted whole insurance solutions.

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Speaker 1: Eustalks be.

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Speaker 2: Even in coming up in the next hour. Shane Soally's

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Speaker 2: going to get us started on a reporting season. We'll

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Speaker 2: get you across hom Visa's big news and Gavin Gray

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Speaker 2: will do the UK for us right now at seven

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Speaker 2: past six, And of course Nikola Willis is the Finance Minister.

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Speaker 2: Hi Nikola, Hi, Heather, how was London?

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Speaker 1: It was great. You know, when you're overseas you appreciate

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Speaker 1: what's wonderful about New Zealand. And I met with some

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Speaker 1: of the people who lend money to New Zealand to

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Speaker 1: invest in New Zealand and they had two pretty clear

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Speaker 1: messages for me. Number one was, please stick to this

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Speaker 1: plan of being sensible, reliable, responsible fiscal managers. That's why

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Speaker 1: we like you and that's why we lend to you

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Speaker 1: at good rates. Number two, Wow, New Zealand, you are lucky.

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Speaker 1: You live in a safe part of the world. You

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Speaker 1: are making things that the world wants to buy. You're

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Speaker 1: a country that's going to grow, and that's why we

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Speaker 1: want to invest in New Zealand, so they very reassuring.

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Speaker 2: Did they give you any ideas well?

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Speaker 1: They were very clear that they think that our agricultural

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Speaker 1: sector has big prospects, particularly in value added food, where

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Speaker 1: they think consumers will continue to want more sustainable products.

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Speaker 1: They'll clear that our tourism proposition is one that they

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Speaker 1: can see growing, and that our tech firms show up

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Speaker 1: very well. I was in New York and I met

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Speaker 1: with the Zero team there and they said that it's

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Speaker 1: not just them doing good stuff in America, that actually

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Speaker 1: a number of tech firms are turning up with export

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Speaker 1: opportunities into the United States, and they think New Zealand

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Speaker 1: has some pretty special source. Our firms are clever at

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Speaker 1: what they do.

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Speaker 2: Why was Luxon really not on that phone call overnight?

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Speaker 2: I don't think it's because he was sleeping.

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Speaker 1: Which phone call are you referring to?

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Speaker 2: This is the overnight phone call with the Coalition of

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Speaker 2: the Willing, the one that happened at one am.

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Speaker 1: I can't speak to that. I haven't talked to him

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Speaker 1: about it either, do you think.

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Speaker 2: I mean, you know the man right, You know him

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Speaker 2: very well because you work with them all the time.

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Speaker 2: He's the kind of guy if there was an if

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Speaker 2: there was an awkward time zone, there's an awkward call

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Speaker 2: at an awkward time one am. He would get up

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Speaker 2: and do it if it was important, isn't he?

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Speaker 1: Absolutely? But he's also a diligent person who takes advice

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Speaker 1: from his officials. So I haven't seen what that advice is.

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Speaker 1: I don't know what the background conspiracy theory.

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Speaker 2: But the reason I'm asking you this is because I

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Speaker 2: think that actually the reason he wasn't on that phone

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Speaker 2: call is because it's an anti Trump phone call, and

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Speaker 2: we don't want to be in the anti Trump camp.

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Speaker 1: In my experience, conspiracy theories and politics are almost always wrong.

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Speaker 1: What is much more likely is the benign, boring, practical

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Speaker 1: reality that it was at a bad time.

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Speaker 2: Okay, why are we going to get High Yonda to

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Speaker 2: build the fairies?

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Speaker 1: They are able to tender on the replacement theories, but

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Speaker 1: we're certainly not in a position to guarantee that they

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Speaker 1: will be.

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Speaker 2: Didn't we given that?

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Speaker 1: We?

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Speaker 2: I mean, because we now know that we put two

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Speaker 2: hundred and twenty two million dollars into High Yonda for

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Speaker 2: the break fee in the deposit, why didn't we just

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Speaker 2: use that deposit and switch what theory we wanted and

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Speaker 2: say we don't want the big ones anymore, we want

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Speaker 2: some mediate ones.

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Speaker 1: Well, we did look at doing that either. Of course,

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Speaker 1: Yonda's specialty isn't doing really big ships, and so initially

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Speaker 1: what we said is why don't you just repurchase the

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Speaker 1: stuff you've already got and turn it into smaller ones,

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Speaker 1: And they said, we worry about that because that will

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Speaker 1: create a liability for us, because you're actually asking us

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Speaker 1: to do something completely different from what we embarked on.

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Speaker 1: And they would have been unprepared to give us the

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Speaker 1: kind of liability guarantees and insurance that we needed for

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Speaker 1: those smaller ships with repurposed kit. So then it just

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Speaker 1: becomes a question of under what conditions would they fully

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Speaker 1: insure ships. And that's why they've been invited to submit

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Speaker 1: in a new tender. Of course, they haven't asked us

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Speaker 1: to give them the full price of the original ships.

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Speaker 1: We did manage to get some of that.

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Speaker 2: Now, do you regret canceling those big fairies because we

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Speaker 2: have ended up Once you tally up how much we're

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Speaker 2: put into the deposit and then the break fee and

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Speaker 2: then the infrastructure costs and stuff we've spent six hundred

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Speaker 2: and seventy million dollars, we've got nothing for it.

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Speaker 1: Well, no, because quite simply, if we'd forge to head

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Speaker 1: with that really broken, chaotic idea, it would have ended

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Speaker 1: up costing billions and billions of dollars, far more than

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Speaker 1: the cost of the now resized, more practical approach. Lest

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Speaker 1: we take a can of because at least.

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Speaker 2: I mean, look, it would have been extremely expensive, but

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Speaker 2: at least at the end we would have two really

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Speaker 2: big fairies and all of the infrastructure. But now what

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Speaker 2: we've done, and sure it would be expensive, but now

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Speaker 2: we've just like literally frush six hundred and seventy dollars

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Speaker 2: seventy million dollars down the toilet. We've got laughing for it,

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Speaker 2: and we're going to have actually medium sized stuff.

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Speaker 1: I doubt that very much. The plans were not progressing well.

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Speaker 1: They'd become tied up in all sorts of complication. There

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Speaker 1: was a very reasonable reality that the port side infrastructure

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Speaker 1: would not have been built in time for the fairies

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Speaker 1: to have arrived, and that they therefore wouldn't have been

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Speaker 1: able to be used. There were still questions being asked

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Speaker 1: by the harbor Master and picked in about whether or

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Speaker 1: not they would allow those large ships to have passage

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Speaker 1: through the Tory Channel. There were questions about how they

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Speaker 1: would operate. What we could see was an impending disaster.

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Speaker 1: It was very unlikely that those ships would have arrived

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Speaker 1: and been used in good time, and it was incredibly

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Speaker 1: likely that we would see further cost blowouts, further complications,

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Speaker 1: further problems into the future. We've now got a project

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Speaker 1: underway which will deliver fairies that are suited for the

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Speaker 1: purpose with port infrastructure that is needed, and it won't

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Speaker 1: be a gold plated plan that goes wrong.

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Speaker 2: Have you got a gas meeting tonight?

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Speaker 1: I meet with all of my colleagues regularly on a

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Speaker 1: number of issues and energy policy in New Zealand.

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Speaker 2: As one that's come on, you've got a meeting yourself,

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Speaker 2: Chris Bishop, Christopher Luxen and Simon Watts have a meeting

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Speaker 2: in this hour, the six o'clock.

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Speaker 1: No one really cares about meetings. What they care about,

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Speaker 1: isn't it in New Zealand right now? Too many people

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Speaker 1: are paying too much for electricity, too firms.

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Speaker 2: But why are you having a meeting?

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Speaker 1: You guys, listen, because we're not going to sit back

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Speaker 1: and have a situation where businesses across the country have

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Speaker 1: to close their operations because they can't access the energy

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Speaker 1: they need. We're not going to have a situation where

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Speaker 1: because the last government band gas exploration, we run out

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Speaker 1: of gas and run out of electricity. We are actively solving.

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Speaker 2: So are you discussing the Frontier Report in this meeting?

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Speaker 1: I've discussed the Frontier Report many times, but again for

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Speaker 1: your listeners, what this is about is how do we

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Speaker 1: make sure that we're actually getting enough new electricity generation built.

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Speaker 1: We acknowledging it can't all be wind, it can't all

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Speaker 1: be sola, it can't all be hard.

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Speaker 2: But is this are getting on with it? This has

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Speaker 2: been like you know, we've had We've had a couple

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Speaker 2: of winters and nothing has been done. So are you

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Speaker 2: guys going to get a riggle on here? Yes? Are

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Speaker 2: we going to ration gas?

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Speaker 1: Well, of course it's always been the case in New

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Speaker 1: Zealand that when there are gas shortages, agreements are forged

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Speaker 1: about how gas can be registributed. You saw that last

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Speaker 1: year with Method X, and those conversations are always ongoing.

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Speaker 2: All right, Hey, Nicola, thank you as always appreciated, and

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Speaker 2: welcome back home. That's Nichola Willis, the Finance Minister. For

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Speaker 2: more from Hither Duplessy Allen Drive Listen live to news talks.

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