1 00:00:00,400 --> 00:00:02,680 Speaker 1: Maria has texted me and thank you very much for 2 00:00:02,720 --> 00:00:05,280 Speaker 1: texting me. Maria. I'm going back to the sports huddle 3 00:00:05,320 --> 00:00:08,000 Speaker 1: here just before the news and we were talking about 4 00:00:08,080 --> 00:00:11,119 Speaker 1: Nadala and how he is retiring at the end of 5 00:00:11,119 --> 00:00:12,799 Speaker 1: the year and things, and there was a bit of 6 00:00:12,840 --> 00:00:15,920 Speaker 1: a snide comment about well, one of my contributors said, well, 7 00:00:15,920 --> 00:00:18,639 Speaker 1: when did he win something last? And Maria has just 8 00:00:18,680 --> 00:00:21,320 Speaker 1: made the point. Only two years ago, twenty twenty two, 9 00:00:21,360 --> 00:00:24,080 Speaker 1: he won the French Open. So thank you very much 10 00:00:24,120 --> 00:00:25,680 Speaker 1: for pointing that out. We deserve a bit of a 11 00:00:25,720 --> 00:00:28,040 Speaker 1: serve for that. You'd think that miss sports huddle would 12 00:00:28,080 --> 00:00:31,760 Speaker 1: know that, but you know, there we go, just giving 13 00:00:31,760 --> 00:00:35,600 Speaker 1: a bit of kudos back to nadal There right a 14 00:00:35,640 --> 00:00:38,760 Speaker 1: step forward for New Zealand's relations with India. The Prime 15 00:00:38,760 --> 00:00:42,360 Speaker 1: Minister Christopher Luxen is in last for the East Asia Summit, 16 00:00:42,800 --> 00:00:47,000 Speaker 1: where today he met with India's Prime Minister Nearendi Modi, 17 00:00:47,400 --> 00:00:49,880 Speaker 1: who invited him to visit India in the new year. 18 00:00:50,080 --> 00:00:53,159 Speaker 1: Luxon says New Zealand's relationship with India is moving in 19 00:00:53,200 --> 00:00:55,360 Speaker 1: the right direction, with the two discussing trade and other 20 00:00:55,400 --> 00:00:59,160 Speaker 1: ways to work together. Pre election national pledge to secure 21 00:00:59,320 --> 00:01:02,440 Speaker 1: a free trade deal with India. But this is the 22 00:01:02,480 --> 00:01:06,480 Speaker 1: first face to face the prime ministers have had. International 23 00:01:06,520 --> 00:01:10,640 Speaker 1: geopolitical analyst Jeffrey Miller joins me now on this good evening, Jeffrey. 24 00:01:11,360 --> 00:01:13,720 Speaker 2: Good evening, Franchesca, what what have they. 25 00:01:13,600 --> 00:01:15,200 Speaker 1: Talked about in this meeting? 26 00:01:16,920 --> 00:01:19,080 Speaker 2: Look, I think this is the first face to face meeting, 27 00:01:19,200 --> 00:01:22,000 Speaker 2: so it will be very much getting to know each 28 00:01:22,040 --> 00:01:25,640 Speaker 2: other and just setting the ground for that visit by 29 00:01:25,760 --> 00:01:29,200 Speaker 2: Christopher Luxen to indian which is going to come early 30 00:01:29,240 --> 00:01:30,840 Speaker 2: next year. So I guess that was the real wind 31 00:01:30,959 --> 00:01:33,360 Speaker 2: to come out of this meeting, the confirmation of an 32 00:01:33,360 --> 00:01:35,240 Speaker 2: invitation to visit India. 33 00:01:35,319 --> 00:01:39,040 Speaker 1: For Christopher Luxen, it's really just an opportunity to say, yes, 34 00:01:39,240 --> 00:01:42,959 Speaker 1: we'd be happy to have some conversations in the future, 35 00:01:43,000 --> 00:01:43,720 Speaker 1: isn't it Jeffrey. 36 00:01:45,000 --> 00:01:47,880 Speaker 2: Essentially, yes, it's the beginning of the conversation. And a 37 00:01:47,960 --> 00:01:50,840 Speaker 2: free trade deal is a very long way away. This 38 00:01:50,880 --> 00:01:53,400 Speaker 2: is a marathon, not a sprint when it comes to India. 39 00:01:53,400 --> 00:01:55,840 Speaker 2: I mean, Christopher Luxin is right to focus on India 40 00:01:55,880 --> 00:01:58,840 Speaker 2: as one of his foreign policy priorities. He makes the 41 00:01:58,880 --> 00:02:00,600 Speaker 2: point that India is going to be the third biggest 42 00:02:00,600 --> 00:02:04,560 Speaker 2: economy by twenty thirty. It's already the world's most populous nation. 43 00:02:04,680 --> 00:02:07,960 Speaker 2: It's the leader arguably of the global South. So yes, 44 00:02:08,000 --> 00:02:10,680 Speaker 2: India should absolutely be in the mix. At the same time, 45 00:02:11,960 --> 00:02:14,280 Speaker 2: India's the two way trade that New Zealand has with 46 00:02:14,320 --> 00:02:17,480 Speaker 2: India is less than ten percent of what New Zealand 47 00:02:17,480 --> 00:02:20,040 Speaker 2: has with China, and that's a relationship which is hugely 48 00:02:20,080 --> 00:02:23,760 Speaker 2: important to New Zealand. And Yet Christopher Luxen didn't have 49 00:02:23,840 --> 00:02:29,400 Speaker 2: a meeting with his Chinese counterpart in last and Winston 50 00:02:29,480 --> 00:02:32,800 Speaker 2: Peters didn't meet with his Chinese counterpart of the UN 51 00:02:33,360 --> 00:02:36,200 Speaker 2: a couple of weeks ago, unlike Australia's Penny Wong. So 52 00:02:36,520 --> 00:02:38,600 Speaker 2: I think that perhaps is a crisis brewing when it 53 00:02:38,600 --> 00:02:41,560 Speaker 2: comes to New Zealand's engagement or that thereof with China, 54 00:02:41,720 --> 00:02:44,880 Speaker 2: because there's absolutely no visit on the horizon for Christopher 55 00:02:44,919 --> 00:02:48,160 Speaker 2: Luxe into China, or a visit even by Winston Peter's 56 00:02:48,160 --> 00:02:50,320 Speaker 2: the Foreign and to start and we're one year into 57 00:02:50,360 --> 00:02:52,160 Speaker 2: this government now, I find that quite concerning. 58 00:02:52,360 --> 00:02:53,920 Speaker 1: Nikay, Do you think that this meeting takes a bit 59 00:02:53,960 --> 00:02:55,880 Speaker 1: of a focus off our relationship with China. 60 00:02:56,960 --> 00:02:59,639 Speaker 2: Well, look, it's clear that this government wants to refocus 61 00:02:59,720 --> 00:03:04,760 Speaker 2: News Evan's International Relations. We've seen the move towards Australia 62 00:03:04,760 --> 00:03:07,000 Speaker 2: and the United States, the fact that New Zealand is 63 00:03:07,000 --> 00:03:10,200 Speaker 2: becoming interested in joining Pillar two of August. So that's 64 00:03:10,240 --> 00:03:14,680 Speaker 2: the context we're operating in, and clearly China is something 65 00:03:14,680 --> 00:03:17,080 Speaker 2: that is a bit difficult to handle for New Zealand. 66 00:03:17,120 --> 00:03:20,280 Speaker 2: We had that very positive visit by Lee Chang, the 67 00:03:20,400 --> 00:03:23,720 Speaker 2: Chinese Premier, back in June, but since then, Christopher Luxon 68 00:03:23,760 --> 00:03:27,240 Speaker 2: has actually taken a fairly hawkish turn, you would say. 69 00:03:27,280 --> 00:03:30,679 Speaker 2: He attended the NATO summit in July, he gave quite 70 00:03:30,680 --> 00:03:34,200 Speaker 2: a hawkish speech in to the Lowe Institute in Sydney 71 00:03:34,280 --> 00:03:38,080 Speaker 2: back in August, and also hiked visa fees. Now that's 72 00:03:38,120 --> 00:03:40,680 Speaker 2: applied to all nationals, but China is one of our 73 00:03:40,680 --> 00:03:43,280 Speaker 2: biggest tourism markets and I think they would have taken 74 00:03:43,280 --> 00:03:45,440 Speaker 2: it as something of a slight given that they provided 75 00:03:45,680 --> 00:03:50,080 Speaker 2: visa free access to New Zealand's citizens for tourism at 76 00:03:50,080 --> 00:03:53,600 Speaker 2: that meeting back in June, when Lee Chang, the Chinese Premier, 77 00:03:53,640 --> 00:03:56,680 Speaker 2: came to New Zealand. So I think there's a crisis 78 00:03:56,680 --> 00:03:59,160 Speaker 2: brewing in some ways with China. I think New Zeven 79 00:03:59,200 --> 00:04:03,320 Speaker 2: really needs to step up its engagement with China while 80 00:04:03,480 --> 00:04:07,240 Speaker 2: not overlooking opportunities of the future when it comes to India. 81 00:04:07,600 --> 00:04:09,360 Speaker 1: And you can do both right, I mean, you know, 82 00:04:09,600 --> 00:04:11,680 Speaker 1: as you say, it's always a bit difficult and a 83 00:04:11,760 --> 00:04:14,000 Speaker 1: fine line dealing with China, but they are an important 84 00:04:14,040 --> 00:04:16,640 Speaker 1: trade partner and we have to be able to do 85 00:04:16,720 --> 00:04:19,200 Speaker 1: hard things, Jeffrey, we you can't just go on. 86 00:04:19,279 --> 00:04:24,760 Speaker 2: It's difficult, indeed, and absolutely that the truths here. Look, 87 00:04:25,240 --> 00:04:27,520 Speaker 2: New Zealand has thirty eight billion dollars worth of two 88 00:04:27,520 --> 00:04:31,320 Speaker 2: way trade with China. There are biggest trading partner by far. 89 00:04:31,720 --> 00:04:33,719 Speaker 2: I find it quite concerning that it was not a 90 00:04:33,760 --> 00:04:37,400 Speaker 2: priority to meet with Lee Chang at the Stages summit 91 00:04:37,720 --> 00:04:41,479 Speaker 2: and rebalance New Zealand's relations to some degree. You know, 92 00:04:41,520 --> 00:04:44,600 Speaker 2: New Zealand's often said that New Zealand players walks as 93 00:04:44,600 --> 00:04:48,320 Speaker 2: tightrope or has this balancing act. But there's not a 94 00:04:48,360 --> 00:04:51,760 Speaker 2: lot of balancing up going on at the moment. It 95 00:04:51,800 --> 00:04:54,599 Speaker 2: seems to be largely one way, one way traffic. New 96 00:04:54,680 --> 00:04:58,560 Speaker 2: Zealand diversifying its relations away from China, you know, that 97 00:04:58,720 --> 00:05:00,800 Speaker 2: is a big risk for New zeal I think if 98 00:05:00,800 --> 00:05:03,680 Speaker 2: New Zealand doesn't get its relations with China back on 99 00:05:03,720 --> 00:05:06,560 Speaker 2: an even keel, you know at some point there may 100 00:05:06,600 --> 00:05:08,400 Speaker 2: be some repercussions in New zealandterfaith. 101 00:05:08,680 --> 00:05:12,960 Speaker 1: Any other outtakes from the Summitch that you have diffree well. 102 00:05:13,000 --> 00:05:15,760 Speaker 2: I thought one comment was really interesting by Christopher Luxon 103 00:05:15,839 --> 00:05:18,360 Speaker 2: at the media stand up today, and it was he 104 00:05:18,520 --> 00:05:20,960 Speaker 2: had absolutely no intention of meeting Serge Lover of the 105 00:05:21,000 --> 00:05:23,560 Speaker 2: Russian Foreign Minister at the meeting. I think that's really 106 00:05:23,560 --> 00:05:26,919 Speaker 2: interesting when you look at this wider context of Christopher 107 00:05:26,960 --> 00:05:29,440 Speaker 2: Luxe and being happy to meet Narendra Modi, the Indian 108 00:05:30,279 --> 00:05:34,800 Speaker 2: Prime Minister, because of course India talks to everyone. India 109 00:05:34,880 --> 00:05:38,800 Speaker 2: has good relations with Russia, good relations with Western countries overall. 110 00:05:38,960 --> 00:05:41,960 Speaker 2: I think New Zealand is a small state, absolutely has 111 00:05:41,960 --> 00:05:44,920 Speaker 2: the power to play this role in terms of dialogue, diplomacy, 112 00:05:44,960 --> 00:05:48,720 Speaker 2: de escalation. And actually I don't think it's that helpful 113 00:05:48,839 --> 00:05:50,320 Speaker 2: to just say I don't want to talk to Sege 114 00:05:50,400 --> 00:05:52,760 Speaker 2: Lover of the Russian Foreign Minister while he's got the 115 00:05:52,800 --> 00:05:55,040 Speaker 2: opportunity to do so. I think he should and put 116 00:05:55,080 --> 00:05:58,000 Speaker 2: New Zealand's position when it comes to war in Ukraine 117 00:05:58,160 --> 00:06:02,120 Speaker 2: and at least have a conversation and keep some dialogue 118 00:06:02,200 --> 00:06:06,160 Speaker 2: open with Russia while he had the opportunity. I mean, 119 00:06:06,400 --> 00:06:08,400 Speaker 2: you can argue he shouldn't go out of his way 120 00:06:08,560 --> 00:06:10,479 Speaker 2: to meet his Russian counterparts, but I think it's a 121 00:06:10,480 --> 00:06:12,720 Speaker 2: bit it's a bit silly actually, just to say no, 122 00:06:12,800 --> 00:06:14,200 Speaker 2: I don't want to go and talk to him. I 123 00:06:14,200 --> 00:06:15,719 Speaker 2: won't talk to him at all while I'm here. 124 00:06:15,920 --> 00:06:18,440 Speaker 1: Okay, And look, finally, do you think Christopher Laximith's meeting 125 00:06:18,440 --> 00:06:20,960 Speaker 1: with more global counterparts than Chris Hopkins did or is 126 00:06:22,000 --> 00:06:24,880 Speaker 1: my memory just fading or is it also because he's 127 00:06:24,880 --> 00:06:26,360 Speaker 1: just so new in the PM seat. 128 00:06:27,720 --> 00:06:29,880 Speaker 2: Well, I went through the list of his foreign trips 129 00:06:29,880 --> 00:06:32,080 Speaker 2: this year that Chris re Fluxeen has made, and we're 130 00:06:32,120 --> 00:06:34,440 Speaker 2: up to already, I think trip number eleven, which is 131 00:06:34,520 --> 00:06:37,640 Speaker 2: quite know, I think quite something, or might be over 132 00:06:37,680 --> 00:06:40,520 Speaker 2: the year since he became Prime Minister, and might include 133 00:06:40,520 --> 00:06:42,960 Speaker 2: those ones at the end of last year. But either way, 134 00:06:43,640 --> 00:06:47,120 Speaker 2: that's a significant number of trips. And it's quite clear 135 00:06:47,120 --> 00:06:50,560 Speaker 2: that Christopher Luxeon does prioritize international relations and foreign policy. 136 00:06:50,560 --> 00:06:52,680 Speaker 2: I think that's a good thing for New Zealand. I 137 00:06:52,680 --> 00:06:55,200 Speaker 2: think it's good that Winston Peters of course, is prioritizing 138 00:06:55,760 --> 00:06:59,640 Speaker 2: traveling as well. He's tried to get to every country 139 00:06:59,680 --> 00:07:02,320 Speaker 2: in the Pacific Islands for and I think you've managed 140 00:07:03,240 --> 00:07:07,360 Speaker 2: all of the countries now territories apart from New Caledonia, 141 00:07:07,480 --> 00:07:10,400 Speaker 2: but I'm sure you'll get there in the coming year. 142 00:07:10,840 --> 00:07:13,600 Speaker 2: So I think it's very good to prioritize just getting 143 00:07:13,640 --> 00:07:16,600 Speaker 2: out there, and especially after all that COVID period where 144 00:07:16,960 --> 00:07:19,600 Speaker 2: New Zealand just wasn't get and getting out there and 145 00:07:19,600 --> 00:07:22,400 Speaker 2: traveling enough when it comes to our Prime minister and 146 00:07:22,440 --> 00:07:23,040 Speaker 2: Foreign minister. 147 00:07:23,200 --> 00:07:25,480 Speaker 1: I appreciate your thoughts. Jeffrey, really nice to talk to you. 148 00:07:25,960 --> 00:07:30,480 Speaker 1: That was international geopolitical analyst Jeffrey Miller. It is twenty 149 00:07:30,560 --> 00:07:34,120 Speaker 1: one past six years News TALKSZBB. For more from hither 150 00:07:34,240 --> 00:07:37,600 Speaker 1: Duplassy Allen Drive, listen live to News talks 'b from 151 00:07:37,680 --> 00:07:41,280 Speaker 1: four pm weekdays, or follow the podcast on iHeartRadio.