1
00:00:00,360 --> 00:00:04,320
Speaker 1: The Huddle with New Zealand Southerbeast International Realty, local and

2
00:00:04,400 --> 00:00:05,400
Speaker 1: global exposure.

3
00:00:05,600 --> 00:00:08,399
Speaker 2: Like Noah turned out Huddle this evening, Jordan Williams from

4
00:00:08,400 --> 00:00:11,200
Speaker 2: the Taxpayers Union and New Zealand Herald's senior writer Simon

5
00:00:11,240 --> 00:00:15,400
Speaker 2: Wilson Heldercordawa. Right, gents, let's start off with response to

6
00:00:15,400 --> 00:00:18,200
Speaker 2: the OCR fifty basis points today. Jordan, presumably that's what

7
00:00:18,280 --> 00:00:19,200
Speaker 2: you wanted to see.

8
00:00:20,040 --> 00:00:22,160
Speaker 3: Yeah, well, there'll be a lot of mortgage holders and

9
00:00:22,160 --> 00:00:24,320
Speaker 3: people to my generation mortgaged up to the eyeballs that

10
00:00:24,360 --> 00:00:27,560
Speaker 3: will be over the moon seeing this. But I mean

11
00:00:27,640 --> 00:00:29,520
Speaker 3: it's almost inevitable now we're going to go back into

12
00:00:29,520 --> 00:00:32,440
Speaker 3: a technical recession. But we don't really look at that

13
00:00:32,479 --> 00:00:36,440
Speaker 3: the Taxpayers Union, it's more the GDP per capita and

14
00:00:36,479 --> 00:00:40,560
Speaker 3: it's we're now in the longest recession since records began.

15
00:00:40,640 --> 00:00:42,280
Speaker 3: When you look at it sort of what we're producing

16
00:00:42,320 --> 00:00:45,440
Speaker 3: per person. Now. You know, Adriana was doing his bit,

17
00:00:45,600 --> 00:00:48,360
Speaker 3: but actually the government's really going to have to do

18
00:00:48,479 --> 00:00:51,320
Speaker 3: the other part of the heavy lifting, which is reform

19
00:00:51,720 --> 00:00:54,080
Speaker 3: that encourages economic growth.

20
00:00:54,680 --> 00:00:58,240
Speaker 4: Simon, it goes to economic growth, doesn't it, Jordan. I

21
00:00:58,280 --> 00:01:00,680
Speaker 4: know that's that's the view of the taxpayer. I've seen

22
00:01:00,680 --> 00:01:01,120
Speaker 4: your press.

23
00:01:01,200 --> 00:01:03,520
Speaker 3: Well, yeah, it's inherently good.

24
00:01:03,640 --> 00:01:06,400
Speaker 4: Growth people out of poverty. Growth is the only answer

25
00:01:06,480 --> 00:01:07,760
Speaker 4: is I'm quoting.

26
00:01:07,760 --> 00:01:09,560
Speaker 3: Well, it's brought a billion people out of poverty in

27
00:01:09,560 --> 00:01:12,200
Speaker 3: my life. Jim Simon, Well, let me Yeah, that's a

28
00:01:12,240 --> 00:01:15,080
Speaker 3: debatable statistic. But what I really wanted to ask you, though,

29
00:01:15,360 --> 00:01:18,160
Speaker 3: was how is it you can talk about growth, which

30
00:01:18,280 --> 00:01:22,840
Speaker 3: obviously helps with jobs, with profits, with enterprise, with opportunity,

31
00:01:23,040 --> 00:01:25,840
Speaker 3: does all those things, but at the same time is

32
00:01:25,880 --> 00:01:29,240
Speaker 3: creating a planet that is unsustainable for everybody to live on.

33
00:01:29,840 --> 00:01:32,640
Speaker 3: You can't just talk about growth. You have to talk

34
00:01:32,680 --> 00:01:37,040
Speaker 3: about that in a wider contest. And when you reduce that,

35
00:01:37,120 --> 00:01:39,920
Speaker 3: when you take away the wider context, when you simply say, okay,

36
00:01:39,920 --> 00:01:42,039
Speaker 3: we're going to make money cheaper so everybody can get

37
00:01:42,040 --> 00:01:44,680
Speaker 3: on and pretend that nothing else is going wrong, that

38
00:01:44,840 --> 00:01:49,920
Speaker 3: is a recipe for a dangerous solution. Jordan oh It said,

39
00:01:49,960 --> 00:01:54,120
Speaker 3: like a true boomer, this is nineteen sixty theory around.

40
00:01:54,320 --> 00:02:00,240
Speaker 3: It's not money sixty short. The short point is a

41
00:02:00,240 --> 00:02:04,480
Speaker 3: across Perusnew Zealand has far more options around protecting the

42
00:02:04,600 --> 00:02:06,360
Speaker 3: environment than a por News island.

43
00:02:06,600 --> 00:02:10,120
Speaker 4: That's the sixties argument, Jordan, The idea that we fix

44
00:02:10,200 --> 00:02:12,680
Speaker 4: the economy and at some time when everything's sweet and

45
00:02:12,680 --> 00:02:15,320
Speaker 4: we'll be able to look after the environment. That that

46
00:02:15,520 --> 00:02:17,640
Speaker 4: is what has got us in That is business as usual.

47
00:02:17,720 --> 00:02:19,959
Speaker 4: That is what has got us into trouble. Now, I'm

48
00:02:20,000 --> 00:02:23,200
Speaker 4: not saying that we shouldn't have economic progress. Of course

49
00:02:23,240 --> 00:02:26,040
Speaker 4: we should, But I am saying that when you only

50
00:02:26,040 --> 00:02:29,639
Speaker 4: talk about economic progress and don't talk about the wider context,

51
00:02:29,720 --> 00:02:31,800
Speaker 4: you're not going to have an economy to progress.

52
00:02:33,040 --> 00:02:39,120
Speaker 2: Right back to the ICR, coll Jordan, it's interesting. So

53
00:02:39,160 --> 00:02:40,679
Speaker 2: I've been trying to find out who's upset about the

54
00:02:40,800 --> 00:02:44,639
Speaker 2: ICR today, right and obviously anyone who's got a significant

55
00:02:44,639 --> 00:02:46,600
Speaker 2: sum in their savings and going to see their savings

56
00:02:46,720 --> 00:02:49,920
Speaker 2: rates eaten into a little bit. But you know, we've

57
00:02:49,919 --> 00:02:52,200
Speaker 2: got a couple of texts from people who fixed back

58
00:02:52,240 --> 00:02:55,680
Speaker 2: in June looking at the commentary from the Reserve Bank

59
00:02:55,720 --> 00:02:58,480
Speaker 2: at that time and feel like they have been misled.

60
00:02:58,520 --> 00:02:59,839
Speaker 2: Do you think they have a case to make?

61
00:03:00,919 --> 00:03:03,880
Speaker 3: Well, I fixed just a part of my mortgage, although

62
00:03:03,919 --> 00:03:07,000
Speaker 3: not for very long, to hedge my bets a little bit,

63
00:03:07,040 --> 00:03:10,040
Speaker 3: only a few months ago. So I'm a little bit annoyed,

64
00:03:10,080 --> 00:03:12,400
Speaker 3: but not as annoyed as as my head of my

65
00:03:12,520 --> 00:03:15,560
Speaker 3: bank coming out for capital gains tax. But that's a

66
00:03:15,960 --> 00:03:19,280
Speaker 3: that's a different matter. I mean, look, I mean, you know,

67
00:03:19,280 --> 00:03:21,840
Speaker 3: it's an open market for information and reasonable minds can

68
00:03:22,000 --> 00:03:22,600
Speaker 3: and did different.

69
00:03:22,840 --> 00:03:25,360
Speaker 4: Seventy seven percent of business leaders in the mood of

70
00:03:25,360 --> 00:03:27,960
Speaker 4: the boardroom survey. I agreed with her. Amazing.

71
00:03:29,080 --> 00:03:30,720
Speaker 2: All right, all right, guys, we'll come back in a

72
00:03:30,720 --> 00:03:34,800
Speaker 2: couple of minutes. Yeah, yeah, we'll come back to in

73
00:03:34,840 --> 00:03:38,080
Speaker 2: a couple of minutes. Get your thoughts on the government's

74
00:03:38,600 --> 00:03:41,120
Speaker 2: directive to Sports end Z which I know is a

75
00:03:41,160 --> 00:03:43,400
Speaker 2: contentious one quarter to sex on Newstalks, he'd be.

76
00:03:44,160 --> 00:03:47,880
Speaker 1: The huddle with New Zealand Southeby's International Realty, elevate the

77
00:03:47,920 --> 00:03:48,960
Speaker 1: marketing of your home.

78
00:03:49,120 --> 00:03:52,200
Speaker 2: You're back with Jordan William Simon Wilson now huddle this evening, Simon.

79
00:03:52,960 --> 00:03:55,880
Speaker 2: The government has asked Sports New Zealand to update their

80
00:03:56,240 --> 00:04:00,360
Speaker 2: transgender community sport guidelines. I know this is just such

81
00:04:00,440 --> 00:04:02,240
Speaker 2: a CONTINGUO says. So there's no kind of no winning

82
00:04:02,240 --> 00:04:05,560
Speaker 2: for anyone on this front. But is this the government's domain?

83
00:04:06,520 --> 00:04:09,160
Speaker 4: I think you were your questions to the minister before

84
00:04:09,160 --> 00:04:12,680
Speaker 4: when you're asking him, are fewer transgender people going to

85
00:04:12,680 --> 00:04:16,599
Speaker 4: be playing sport. The subtext of having the review is

86
00:04:16,640 --> 00:04:19,800
Speaker 4: that that would be the likely outcome, but he didn't

87
00:04:19,839 --> 00:04:21,920
Speaker 4: want to say that. It strikes me that they've got

88
00:04:21,920 --> 00:04:24,159
Speaker 4: a coalition agreement that they're going to have this review,

89
00:04:24,200 --> 00:04:27,120
Speaker 4: but the national part of the government doesn't want to

90
00:04:27,120 --> 00:04:29,839
Speaker 4: go anywhere near it. You couldn't hear in what Bishop

91
00:04:29,920 --> 00:04:32,640
Speaker 4: was saying there was any reason that he thought was

92
00:04:32,680 --> 00:04:35,120
Speaker 4: any good why they're doing this at all. It's simply

93
00:04:35,200 --> 00:04:38,080
Speaker 4: problem The thing that's weird about it is that he

94
00:04:38,200 --> 00:04:42,599
Speaker 4: uses the code word fairness. We've had inclusion, we've had equity,

95
00:04:42,720 --> 00:04:45,440
Speaker 4: now we're going to have more fairness. Fairness is in

96
00:04:45,520 --> 00:04:49,640
Speaker 4: other contexts a word that means inclusion and equity as well,

97
00:04:49,760 --> 00:04:53,120
Speaker 4: but in this case he's talking specifically about being more

98
00:04:53,200 --> 00:04:59,960
Speaker 4: fair to cisgender women. And it's problematic that he's taught

99
00:05:00,000 --> 00:05:01,839
Speaker 4: looking in code like that, I think, and it's a

100
00:05:01,880 --> 00:05:03,400
Speaker 4: shame that he feels he has.

101
00:05:03,279 --> 00:05:05,800
Speaker 2: To Jordan, do you draw a distinction on this issue

102
00:05:05,800 --> 00:05:08,760
Speaker 2: between elite level sport and community sport?

103
00:05:11,400 --> 00:05:13,799
Speaker 3: Oh? Really turn my mind to that. To be honest,

104
00:05:14,200 --> 00:05:16,800
Speaker 3: I wanted to answer the question that Simon wouldn't quite

105
00:05:16,800 --> 00:05:18,839
Speaker 3: answer then, and it's whether it's a role of government.

106
00:05:19,160 --> 00:05:21,520
Speaker 3: I don't think it is. The problem here is that

107
00:05:21,520 --> 00:05:26,920
Speaker 3: Sports New Zealand had guidance that these Olympians have disagreed with.

108
00:05:27,480 --> 00:05:30,400
Speaker 3: But in a perfect world, I'd say, look, it should

109
00:05:30,400 --> 00:05:32,800
Speaker 3: be up to the sporting codes or the sporting associations.

110
00:05:33,080 --> 00:05:35,920
Speaker 3: If you want to play in a league that does

111
00:05:36,000 --> 00:05:39,400
Speaker 3: or doesn't include transgender athletes, that you know that that

112
00:05:39,600 --> 00:05:45,360
Speaker 3: should be left for the particular sports for example, or organizations.

113
00:05:45,400 --> 00:05:49,080
Speaker 3: The problem we have is that so many sports, both

114
00:05:49,440 --> 00:05:53,360
Speaker 3: at an elite and at an amateur level, are reliant

115
00:05:53,480 --> 00:05:56,000
Speaker 3: on government funding and Sport New Zealand and the like,

116
00:05:56,520 --> 00:05:59,760
Speaker 3: and so arguably that they have to take our position.

117
00:05:59,800 --> 00:06:02,479
Speaker 3: But I mean maybe not. I mean, is it a

118
00:06:02,560 --> 00:06:04,440
Speaker 3: role of government? But I think it is inherently the

119
00:06:04,760 --> 00:06:06,919
Speaker 3: reason it's hard and the reason why Simon and I

120
00:06:06,920 --> 00:06:08,480
Speaker 3: are cautious because we don't want to have twilers to

121
00:06:08,520 --> 00:06:10,320
Speaker 3: blow up or have death threats or things like that

122
00:06:10,760 --> 00:06:12,680
Speaker 3: on this matter. I've got enough enemy's fighting for lawer

123
00:06:12,720 --> 00:06:17,040
Speaker 3: Texas the alone this sort of stuff. But yeah, I

124
00:06:17,200 --> 00:06:19,760
Speaker 3: just I'm just not I'm just not convinced the government

125
00:06:19,800 --> 00:06:20,520
Speaker 3: should be there at all.

126
00:06:20,600 --> 00:06:22,840
Speaker 4: Well, I tell you what, Jordan, I agree with you.

127
00:06:23,120 --> 00:06:35,560
Speaker 2: Ah, can we well, yeah, I mean it's it's I mean,

128
00:06:35,600 --> 00:06:38,680
Speaker 2: the problem is too that. I mean a lot of

129
00:06:38,720 --> 00:06:41,680
Speaker 2: these a lot of these community sports organizations. I mean,

130
00:06:42,200 --> 00:06:44,920
Speaker 2: who would want to be an administrator the best of times?

131
00:06:44,920 --> 00:06:47,600
Speaker 2: These are thankless roles, right, trying to be an administrator

132
00:06:47,600 --> 00:06:49,640
Speaker 2: for a minority sport in New Zealand and then trying

133
00:06:49,640 --> 00:06:52,039
Speaker 2: to set your own, you know, guidelines around this. It

134
00:06:52,120 --> 00:06:54,640
Speaker 2: is such a tricky and contentious subject, and I suppose

135
00:06:54,640 --> 00:06:56,720
Speaker 2: that's why they look to Healthy ad to Sporting z

136
00:06:57,160 --> 00:07:00,080
Speaker 2: for for guidance on these kinds of issues. Auckland and

137
00:07:00,160 --> 00:07:04,520
Speaker 2: Otago universities have dropped down the world rankings, and you

138
00:07:04,520 --> 00:07:08,600
Speaker 2: know how these university rankings are all important for our institutions.

139
00:07:08,680 --> 00:07:08,960
Speaker 3: Jordan.

140
00:07:09,000 --> 00:07:09,960
Speaker 2: Should we be concerned?

141
00:07:10,640 --> 00:07:13,320
Speaker 3: Yeah, we should be. Actually, I mean it's it's probably

142
00:07:13,320 --> 00:07:15,760
Speaker 3: the daily end of what has been a declining education

143
00:07:15,840 --> 00:07:20,760
Speaker 3: system in the school sector. About this is show my age.

144
00:07:20,760 --> 00:07:22,840
Speaker 3: But eight or nine years ago, I think on this

145
00:07:23,000 --> 00:07:26,200
Speaker 3: very panel, there was a similar report out and I'd

146
00:07:26,200 --> 00:07:29,520
Speaker 3: looked up the proportion of GDP we spend on tertiary education.

147
00:07:29,680 --> 00:07:32,040
Speaker 3: It's very high. And I pointed that out that you know,

148
00:07:32,040 --> 00:07:35,200
Speaker 3: we're actually spending quite a lot, and one of the

149
00:07:35,280 --> 00:07:37,880
Speaker 3: chances that's got in touch with me and actually showed

150
00:07:37,880 --> 00:07:39,920
Speaker 3: the floor in it. So this is my correction eight

151
00:07:40,000 --> 00:07:43,280
Speaker 3: years later, is that when you according to the OECD,

152
00:07:43,440 --> 00:07:46,200
Speaker 3: we do spend a lot on tertiary education, but actually

153
00:07:46,960 --> 00:07:50,239
Speaker 3: a much higher proportion of that goes on to student

154
00:07:50,360 --> 00:07:53,840
Speaker 3: support as opposed to money to the institutions. So they

155
00:07:53,840 --> 00:07:55,800
Speaker 3: were a bit of annoy that, you know that the

156
00:07:55,800 --> 00:07:58,360
Speaker 3: Taxpayers Union was hoppity hopperty about well, actually they do

157
00:07:58,480 --> 00:08:02,400
Speaker 3: pretty well financially. Actually it's not necessarily going to the

158
00:08:02,440 --> 00:08:05,640
Speaker 3: universities all to that research. On the other hand, when

159
00:08:05,640 --> 00:08:09,080
Speaker 3: we've looked at this before, the staff ratios in New

160
00:08:09,160 --> 00:08:12,600
Speaker 3: Zealand are really out of whack when you compare the

161
00:08:12,640 --> 00:08:16,200
Speaker 3: actual academic number versus the non academic staff.

162
00:08:16,800 --> 00:08:19,160
Speaker 2: Yeah right, okay, hey, just before we go, because we

163
00:08:19,240 --> 00:08:21,560
Speaker 2: are running out of time. Simon. That report I was

164
00:08:21,560 --> 00:08:25,400
Speaker 2: referencing re air pollution caught your interest as well, today.

165
00:08:25,160 --> 00:08:27,240
Speaker 4: Oh it did? I Yeah, I just got to say

166
00:08:27,840 --> 00:08:29,760
Speaker 4: the university speaking. But there's another way to look at

167
00:08:29,800 --> 00:08:31,600
Speaker 4: the data, and that is that last time they did it,

168
00:08:31,760 --> 00:08:33,600
Speaker 4: we were in the Auckland University was in the top

169
00:08:33,640 --> 00:08:35,640
Speaker 4: seven point nine percent. It's now in the top seven

170
00:08:35,679 --> 00:08:37,680
Speaker 4: point three even though it's gone down in the rankings

171
00:08:37,760 --> 00:08:40,760
Speaker 4: because the two hundred more universities in the survey than

172
00:08:40,800 --> 00:08:43,240
Speaker 4: there used to be. However, having said that, the problem

173
00:08:43,280 --> 00:08:46,200
Speaker 4: is not as Jordan said that the problems at schools.

174
00:08:46,200 --> 00:08:49,920
Speaker 4: The problem is the underfunding of research and in our

175
00:08:50,080 --> 00:08:53,200
Speaker 4: premium institutions, and that's a really big issue. Looking at

176
00:08:53,240 --> 00:08:57,680
Speaker 4: air pollution, Queen Street as the biggest mover on nitrosox side,

177
00:08:57,679 --> 00:09:00,280
Speaker 4: and that's because there are far fewer cars and Queen

178
00:09:00,280 --> 00:09:03,360
Speaker 4: Street and more electric buses. It's now a much more

179
00:09:03,400 --> 00:09:06,240
Speaker 4: pleasant place to be. But we still have an appalling

180
00:09:06,280 --> 00:09:10,920
Speaker 4: problems pollution all around this country. Jordan, wrap us.

181
00:09:10,920 --> 00:09:12,040
Speaker 2: Up, sire.

182
00:09:12,120 --> 00:09:15,800
Speaker 3: You're an office the Paul Queen Street. It's just terrible.

183
00:09:15,800 --> 00:09:17,640
Speaker 3: But it's not for anything to do with the traffic

184
00:09:17,679 --> 00:09:18,360
Speaker 3: going up and down.

185
00:09:18,800 --> 00:09:20,600
Speaker 2: All right, thank you for your time, guys, We do

186
00:09:20,720 --> 00:09:23,360
Speaker 2: appreciate it. Here I'm going to end with this lovely text. OMG,

187
00:09:23,480 --> 00:09:26,240
Speaker 2: what a great couple. Simon Wilson and Jordan Williams. They

188
00:09:26,280 --> 00:09:29,480
Speaker 2: should get their own show here here seven to six

189
00:09:29,520 --> 00:09:30,400
Speaker 2: on News Talks he'd be.

190
00:09:31,200 --> 00:09:34,360
Speaker 1: For more from Hither Duplessy Allen Drive. Listen live to

191
00:09:34,480 --> 00:09:37,520
Speaker 1: news talks it'd be from four pm weekdays, or follow

192
00:09:37,559 --> 00:09:39,280
Speaker 1: the podcast on iHeartRadio