1 00:00:00,160 --> 00:00:01,840 Speaker 1: I'd ever do to see. 2 00:00:01,720 --> 00:00:03,840 Speaker 2: US nine two nine two is the text understandard text 3 00:00:03,880 --> 00:00:06,520 Speaker 2: fees applying You're welcome to weigh in. Yes, I am 4 00:00:06,559 --> 00:00:10,000 Speaker 2: expecting a text from Jason Pine at some stage now 5 00:00:10,080 --> 00:00:12,280 Speaker 2: Hagley College and christ Church have a listened to this 6 00:00:12,320 --> 00:00:14,560 Speaker 2: slag going to let students work from home two days 7 00:00:14,560 --> 00:00:16,279 Speaker 2: a week. This is just a trial at the moment. 8 00:00:16,320 --> 00:00:19,720 Speaker 2: It's only going to be limited to twenty NCEEA pupils 9 00:00:19,800 --> 00:00:22,680 Speaker 2: and it's aimed at students who have mental or physical 10 00:00:22,680 --> 00:00:26,160 Speaker 2: health difficulties or who have extracurricular activities that clash with school. 11 00:00:26,520 --> 00:00:29,720 Speaker 2: Derek Wenmouth is a New Zealand education specialist who actually 12 00:00:29,760 --> 00:00:33,320 Speaker 2: helped Hagley College design the trial. Hey Derek, hey there, 13 00:00:33,360 --> 00:00:34,279 Speaker 2: how are you very well? 14 00:00:34,320 --> 00:00:34,760 Speaker 1: Thank you? 15 00:00:34,880 --> 00:00:36,680 Speaker 2: What kind of difficulty are we talking about here that 16 00:00:36,680 --> 00:00:38,040 Speaker 2: are keeping the kids out of school? 17 00:00:39,560 --> 00:00:43,159 Speaker 1: As I understand it, it's largely students who have some 18 00:00:43,360 --> 00:00:45,960 Speaker 1: level of anxiety about getting to school, or have some 19 00:00:46,200 --> 00:00:50,559 Speaker 1: level of mental health issues or physical reasons at attending 20 00:00:50,600 --> 00:00:54,760 Speaker 1: school every day of the week just isn't really ideal 21 00:00:54,840 --> 00:00:55,160 Speaker 1: for them. 22 00:00:57,240 --> 00:01:00,760 Speaker 2: Anxieties. Is that quite a big problem. 23 00:01:01,040 --> 00:01:03,720 Speaker 1: It's an increasing problem as I understand, in schools and 24 00:01:05,000 --> 00:01:08,320 Speaker 1: New Zealand has been a little behind on the uptake 25 00:01:08,560 --> 00:01:11,320 Speaker 1: a number of other countries, especially the UK, where I 26 00:01:11,480 --> 00:01:13,880 Speaker 1: was involved in a number of years ago. Now they've 27 00:01:13,920 --> 00:01:18,319 Speaker 1: had programs specifically targeting students like this for a while. 28 00:01:18,680 --> 00:01:22,600 Speaker 1: In New Zealand. The corresponds or to Kura tends to 29 00:01:22,600 --> 00:01:24,600 Speaker 1: pick up a lot of these students at the moment. 30 00:01:25,280 --> 00:01:28,200 Speaker 2: Okay, how do we know that? I mean, the thing is, 31 00:01:28,440 --> 00:01:31,240 Speaker 2: when you're that age, it's really hard to keep yourself 32 00:01:31,880 --> 00:01:34,360 Speaker 2: disciplined and on track and doing your work. So how 33 00:01:34,400 --> 00:01:35,960 Speaker 2: do we know that they're not just going to drift 34 00:01:35,959 --> 00:01:36,920 Speaker 2: off and get distracted. 35 00:01:38,040 --> 00:01:40,200 Speaker 1: Well, that's a good question. It's the same question you 36 00:01:40,240 --> 00:01:44,600 Speaker 1: could ask inside a classroom. It's one of those things 37 00:01:44,640 --> 00:01:48,480 Speaker 1: that really comes down to really good instructional design and 38 00:01:48,600 --> 00:01:53,680 Speaker 1: processes that that students find engaging, focusing on things that 39 00:01:53,720 --> 00:01:57,400 Speaker 1: are perhaps personalized to that learner's interests and choices. It 40 00:01:57,440 --> 00:02:00,000 Speaker 1: won't make all of that go away, but it's definitely 41 00:02:00,040 --> 00:02:00,720 Speaker 1: what you have to work on. 42 00:02:00,800 --> 00:02:02,640 Speaker 2: But I mean, Derek, at least in a classroom the 43 00:02:02,680 --> 00:02:04,640 Speaker 2: teacher would be walking up and down and would say 44 00:02:04,680 --> 00:02:06,600 Speaker 2: put your phone away or whatever. If you're at home, 45 00:02:06,640 --> 00:02:09,760 Speaker 2: you can be hitting the Xbox, hitting the computer, listening 46 00:02:09,800 --> 00:02:12,160 Speaker 2: to music. There's a thousand different things you could do 47 00:02:12,160 --> 00:02:13,440 Speaker 2: when nobody's there drilling you. 48 00:02:15,120 --> 00:02:17,000 Speaker 1: That's true, But i'd put it to you that's happening 49 00:02:17,040 --> 00:02:21,959 Speaker 1: in classrooms up and down the country right now, is it? Yeah? 50 00:02:22,880 --> 00:02:24,560 Speaker 2: What kids just playing on their phones? 51 00:02:25,480 --> 00:02:30,160 Speaker 1: Yeah, it's absolutely We've got The big issue here is 52 00:02:30,200 --> 00:02:33,040 Speaker 1: around instructural design. I don't think it's an epidemic problem, 53 00:02:33,120 --> 00:02:35,760 Speaker 1: I have to say, but certainly you know, over the 54 00:02:35,880 --> 00:02:40,600 Speaker 1: schools quite regularly and there wouldn't perhaps be a visit. Well, 55 00:02:40,600 --> 00:02:42,800 Speaker 1: I don't see that happening to some degree or another. 56 00:02:42,880 --> 00:02:45,240 Speaker 1: So simply having what I'm trying to say, simply having 57 00:02:45,280 --> 00:02:48,920 Speaker 1: a teacher in a classroom doesn't actually change things. It 58 00:02:48,960 --> 00:02:52,360 Speaker 1: comes down to the same educational principles of being really 59 00:02:53,480 --> 00:02:56,400 Speaker 1: explicit in your instructional design and having programs that are 60 00:02:56,480 --> 00:02:58,680 Speaker 1: highly engaging and motivating for these students. 61 00:02:58,960 --> 00:03:01,280 Speaker 2: How will it give it it's trial, How will you 62 00:03:01,320 --> 00:03:03,320 Speaker 2: know if it's worked. 63 00:03:03,680 --> 00:03:06,720 Speaker 1: Oh, I'm not one hundred percent sure on what their 64 00:03:06,760 --> 00:03:09,760 Speaker 1: measures are putting in place. We did talk earlier about 65 00:03:10,200 --> 00:03:13,520 Speaker 1: having a whole range of measures in place that they'll 66 00:03:13,560 --> 00:03:16,280 Speaker 1: be monitoring right through the trial. And at the end 67 00:03:16,840 --> 00:03:21,480 Speaker 1: involving as I understand it, you know, the observable things 68 00:03:21,480 --> 00:03:24,359 Speaker 1: in terms of participation and time online, all these sorts 69 00:03:24,400 --> 00:03:27,359 Speaker 1: of things, interviews with parents, with students and so forth. 70 00:03:28,200 --> 00:03:29,919 Speaker 1: So I'd look forward to seeing what comes out of 71 00:03:29,960 --> 00:03:30,919 Speaker 1: it there, Derek. 72 00:03:31,000 --> 00:03:32,840 Speaker 2: Look, I might be a little old school, and you 73 00:03:32,880 --> 00:03:35,200 Speaker 2: can tell me if I am. But what worries me 74 00:03:35,320 --> 00:03:38,600 Speaker 2: here is that we're not preparing kids for the real world. 75 00:03:38,640 --> 00:03:40,200 Speaker 2: And in the real world, you've got to go to 76 00:03:40,240 --> 00:03:41,960 Speaker 2: work five days a week. I mean, there are maybe 77 00:03:42,000 --> 00:03:45,560 Speaker 2: some nice white collar jobs where you get to skive 78 00:03:45,600 --> 00:03:47,320 Speaker 2: off if you're working for the public service or something, 79 00:03:47,320 --> 00:03:49,440 Speaker 2: and stay at home Mondays and Fridays. But for the 80 00:03:49,480 --> 00:03:52,520 Speaker 2: vast majority of us, every single day, with or without 81 00:03:52,560 --> 00:03:55,320 Speaker 2: your anxiety, with all without all of the things you 82 00:03:55,360 --> 00:03:57,600 Speaker 2: want to do, you've got to just put your clothes 83 00:03:57,640 --> 00:04:00,360 Speaker 2: on and go to work. So are we not sitting 84 00:04:00,360 --> 00:04:01,400 Speaker 2: them up a file? 85 00:04:03,600 --> 00:04:06,440 Speaker 1: I think that's an interesting perspective. I'm not sure I 86 00:04:06,440 --> 00:04:10,360 Speaker 1: would see it the same way. You're right, there's a 87 00:04:10,360 --> 00:04:12,080 Speaker 1: whole lot of things about the real world, the real 88 00:04:12,120 --> 00:04:15,640 Speaker 1: world that you and I perhaps prepared ourselves for at school. 89 00:04:15,640 --> 00:04:18,279 Speaker 1: As an entirely different world now, and it's part of 90 00:04:18,279 --> 00:04:21,599 Speaker 1: the challenge that we have in education is to be 91 00:04:21,720 --> 00:04:25,920 Speaker 1: looking and monitoring all the time at where those changes are. 92 00:04:26,520 --> 00:04:32,159 Speaker 1: I mean the organizations that are moving into high I'm 93 00:04:32,160 --> 00:04:35,560 Speaker 1: not sure it's true toguise them as you have. There 94 00:04:35,560 --> 00:04:40,120 Speaker 1: are now quite a change of occupations that allow people 95 00:04:40,160 --> 00:04:42,880 Speaker 1: to work more flexibly and in their own way, just 96 00:04:42,920 --> 00:04:45,080 Speaker 1: as there are others that say, well, you actually can't 97 00:04:45,080 --> 00:04:48,000 Speaker 1: do the job at all unless you are on site. 98 00:04:49,120 --> 00:04:51,039 Speaker 1: So I think part of the challenge we've got in 99 00:04:51,080 --> 00:04:53,720 Speaker 1: part of what Hagley's doing is endeavoring to respond to 100 00:04:53,760 --> 00:04:56,160 Speaker 1: that is saying, so, what are the options we need 101 00:04:56,200 --> 00:04:59,039 Speaker 1: to be exploring here that may actually challenge some of 102 00:04:59,080 --> 00:05:01,040 Speaker 1: the traditional power domestic things we have. 103 00:05:01,760 --> 00:05:04,160 Speaker 2: Derek, listen, thank you. I really appreciate you talking us through. 104 00:05:04,160 --> 00:05:08,240 Speaker 2: That's Derek Wenmouth, New Zealand education specialist. For more from 105 00:05:08,279 --> 00:05:11,560 Speaker 2: Hither Duplessy Allen Drive, listen live to news talks they'd 106 00:05:11,600 --> 00:05:15,680 Speaker 2: be from four pm weekdays, or follow the podcast on iHeartRadio.