1 00:00:05,600 --> 00:00:05,960 Speaker 1: Kyota. 2 00:00:06,000 --> 00:00:08,719 Speaker 2: I'm Susie nord Quitstan for Chelsea Daniels and this is 3 00:00:08,760 --> 00:00:11,520 Speaker 2: the Front Page, a daily podcast presented by the New 4 00:00:11,640 --> 00:00:20,439 Speaker 2: Zealand Herald. New Zealand's once world leading education system is 5 00:00:20,480 --> 00:00:23,759 Speaker 2: in a sorry state. Huge numbers of Kiwi kids are 6 00:00:23,840 --> 00:00:26,880 Speaker 2: failing in key areas, with four out of five year 7 00:00:26,920 --> 00:00:30,600 Speaker 2: eight students behind in maths. It's prompted the government to 8 00:00:30,720 --> 00:00:33,880 Speaker 2: fast track plans for a new maths curriculum for intermediate 9 00:00:33,920 --> 00:00:37,400 Speaker 2: students and is tackling the teacher shortage by allowing those 10 00:00:37,440 --> 00:00:43,120 Speaker 2: who are previously registered to be relieveds But can these 11 00:00:43,159 --> 00:00:47,280 Speaker 2: solutions turn around a sector that is understaffed, under resourced 12 00:00:47,280 --> 00:00:49,880 Speaker 2: and feeling burnt out. Today on the Front Page, we 13 00:00:49,920 --> 00:00:53,320 Speaker 2: are joined by doctor Nina Hood, founder of the Education Hub, 14 00:00:53,600 --> 00:00:57,640 Speaker 2: and Clive Jones, Deputy Chief Executive of the Teaching Council ALTEDA, 15 00:00:58,000 --> 00:01:01,600 Speaker 2: to discuss some of the issues facing sector that's in crisis. 16 00:01:04,920 --> 00:01:08,760 Speaker 2: To start this conversation off, Nina, you've spoken with educators 17 00:01:08,760 --> 00:01:11,600 Speaker 2: about the struggles they are facing. What are some of 18 00:01:11,640 --> 00:01:14,240 Speaker 2: the horror stories you're hearing from the front lines. 19 00:01:14,600 --> 00:01:17,360 Speaker 3: So I have had a number of conversations with teachers 20 00:01:17,400 --> 00:01:21,360 Speaker 3: and with principles, and I think the feeling across most 21 00:01:21,400 --> 00:01:24,240 Speaker 3: of them is a sense of overwhelm at the moment. 22 00:01:24,760 --> 00:01:27,360 Speaker 3: And I think it's a sense of overwhelm due to 23 00:01:27,400 --> 00:01:28,560 Speaker 3: a number of factors. 24 00:01:29,160 --> 00:01:30,520 Speaker 4: So for principles, at. 25 00:01:30,360 --> 00:01:34,960 Speaker 3: The moment, they are faced with a real struggle trying 26 00:01:35,000 --> 00:01:39,000 Speaker 3: to find enough teachers and this is particularly acute in 27 00:01:39,240 --> 00:01:43,479 Speaker 3: certain regions and in particular subjects at the secondary school level, 28 00:01:43,600 --> 00:01:46,200 Speaker 3: and so that's putting a real challenge on them. So, 29 00:01:46,360 --> 00:01:49,840 Speaker 3: for instance, one of the stories that principal told me 30 00:01:49,920 --> 00:01:54,680 Speaker 3: last week was that she advertised a job and normally 31 00:01:54,760 --> 00:01:57,920 Speaker 3: she would have had probably at least six or seven 32 00:01:58,080 --> 00:02:01,720 Speaker 3: potential candidates who he could have employed into that job. 33 00:02:02,160 --> 00:02:06,080 Speaker 3: This time she had ten applications and only one of 34 00:02:06,080 --> 00:02:09,240 Speaker 3: those came from a teacher who was currently in New Zealand. 35 00:02:09,280 --> 00:02:11,200 Speaker 4: All the others were from offshore. 36 00:02:11,120 --> 00:02:15,360 Speaker 3: Which just speaks to the immense strain that schools are under. 37 00:02:15,760 --> 00:02:19,639 Speaker 3: A number of other things also affecting teachers at the moment. 38 00:02:20,040 --> 00:02:23,520 Speaker 3: We've heard lots of stories come out around the challenges 39 00:02:23,560 --> 00:02:26,040 Speaker 3: to do with student mental health and well being and 40 00:02:26,160 --> 00:02:29,400 Speaker 3: the toll that that's taking on schools. We've heard a 41 00:02:29,440 --> 00:02:34,720 Speaker 3: lot also about problematic and challenging behavior among students, students 42 00:02:34,760 --> 00:02:38,680 Speaker 3: with growing learning needs that schools are having to cater to. 43 00:02:39,240 --> 00:02:41,960 Speaker 3: And this is on top of also a number of 44 00:02:42,080 --> 00:02:45,480 Speaker 3: other policy changes that are coming through at the moment 45 00:02:45,520 --> 00:02:48,239 Speaker 3: as well that teachers and principles are having to get 46 00:02:48,240 --> 00:02:49,040 Speaker 3: their heads around. 47 00:02:49,240 --> 00:02:52,720 Speaker 2: Do you have any examples of the overwhelm that teachers 48 00:02:52,880 --> 00:02:54,079 Speaker 2: are currently facing. 49 00:02:54,360 --> 00:02:55,040 Speaker 4: I do so. 50 00:02:55,200 --> 00:02:57,919 Speaker 3: I was speaking to a secondary school principal last week 51 00:02:58,080 --> 00:03:01,200 Speaker 3: and he was talking about the fact that the changes 52 00:03:01,240 --> 00:03:04,720 Speaker 3: to Level one n CEA are having on her teachers, 53 00:03:04,760 --> 00:03:08,040 Speaker 3: and she spoke of the teachers being on their knees 54 00:03:08,520 --> 00:03:13,079 Speaker 3: and she had had several really highly experienced teachers, teachers 55 00:03:13,120 --> 00:03:17,320 Speaker 3: with at least twenty years of experience, in tears because 56 00:03:17,360 --> 00:03:20,440 Speaker 3: they were struggling to get their heads around exactly what 57 00:03:20,560 --> 00:03:23,760 Speaker 3: was expected of them and of their students for this 58 00:03:23,919 --> 00:03:24,760 Speaker 3: new Level one. 59 00:03:25,360 --> 00:03:26,960 Speaker 4: And I think what the teachers. 60 00:03:26,560 --> 00:03:30,200 Speaker 3: Were really feeling was that because they didn't have enough information, 61 00:03:30,360 --> 00:03:34,360 Speaker 3: because they didn't have clear expectations, they didn't feel like 62 00:03:34,400 --> 00:03:37,200 Speaker 3: they were able to do the best job possible for 63 00:03:37,240 --> 00:03:40,680 Speaker 3: their students. And at the end of the day, that's 64 00:03:40,720 --> 00:03:43,880 Speaker 3: what teachers want to do. They want to do the 65 00:03:43,960 --> 00:03:47,200 Speaker 3: best by their students. They believe in their students, they 66 00:03:47,280 --> 00:03:50,200 Speaker 3: want to try and give them the best possible learning experience, 67 00:03:50,280 --> 00:03:52,440 Speaker 3: and for these teachers, they didn't feel like they were 68 00:03:52,440 --> 00:03:53,760 Speaker 3: able to do that at the moment. 69 00:03:54,040 --> 00:03:57,440 Speaker 2: Clive speaking to that teacher shortage, how bad has it 70 00:03:57,480 --> 00:03:58,160 Speaker 2: got this yet? 71 00:03:58,200 --> 00:04:00,800 Speaker 5: Firstly, I think it's important to not that there is 72 00:04:00,840 --> 00:04:03,840 Speaker 5: a teaching workforce crisis in New Zealand, but it's been 73 00:04:03,920 --> 00:04:06,240 Speaker 5: over a decade in the making. It's not something that 74 00:04:06,480 --> 00:04:09,520 Speaker 5: has happened just in the recent past. If you look 75 00:04:09,560 --> 00:04:14,360 Speaker 5: at the number of domestic students enrolling in teacher training programs, 76 00:04:14,600 --> 00:04:18,960 Speaker 5: that's dropped by fifty one percent between twenty ten and 77 00:04:19,120 --> 00:04:22,880 Speaker 5: twenty twenty three, and what that really says is we're 78 00:04:22,920 --> 00:04:27,120 Speaker 5: just not producing enough teachers to actually replenish the teaching 79 00:04:27,160 --> 00:04:31,760 Speaker 5: workforce without having to take other measures like rely on 80 00:04:32,200 --> 00:04:33,560 Speaker 5: overseas trained teachers. 81 00:04:33,839 --> 00:04:35,120 Speaker 2: It's probably worth. 82 00:04:34,920 --> 00:04:39,000 Speaker 5: Mentioning that in twenty twenty three, we asked teachers how 83 00:04:39,040 --> 00:04:42,440 Speaker 5: they were feeling about teaching and the teaching profession, and 84 00:04:42,520 --> 00:04:45,159 Speaker 5: they told us, in non certain terms that they were 85 00:04:45,279 --> 00:04:52,120 Speaker 5: feeling undermined, undervalued, and underpaid and really unappreciated in terms 86 00:04:52,160 --> 00:04:57,200 Speaker 5: of not just paying working conditions, but also acknowledgment in 87 00:04:57,360 --> 00:05:01,280 Speaker 5: terms of the importance of the teaching profession to New Zealand. 88 00:05:01,160 --> 00:05:05,000 Speaker 2: Clive, Why is teaching not seen as an attractive career now? 89 00:05:05,040 --> 00:05:07,360 Speaker 5: There's no simple answer to that. You know, if you 90 00:05:07,440 --> 00:05:12,400 Speaker 5: go back to the seventies, gender stereotypes meant that a 91 00:05:12,440 --> 00:05:15,479 Speaker 5: society had different values and a lot of people were 92 00:05:15,560 --> 00:05:19,120 Speaker 5: enrolling in teacher training programs because that was expected of females. 93 00:05:19,120 --> 00:05:21,600 Speaker 5: And of course that has changed so that part of 94 00:05:21,640 --> 00:05:25,040 Speaker 5: our population now has fantastic choices in terms of careers. 95 00:05:25,480 --> 00:05:29,320 Speaker 5: But teaching has gone through this process where it's gone 96 00:05:29,360 --> 00:05:32,400 Speaker 5: from a relatively high esteem profession in New Zealand to 97 00:05:32,440 --> 00:05:35,400 Speaker 5: one where actually, if you ask school leavers what their 98 00:05:35,480 --> 00:05:39,599 Speaker 5: dream jobs are, teaching doesn't feature in that list. There's 99 00:05:39,720 --> 00:05:42,919 Speaker 5: so much more choice for school leavers these days that 100 00:05:43,080 --> 00:05:46,719 Speaker 5: actually did much rather be a doctor, or a musician 101 00:05:46,839 --> 00:05:49,760 Speaker 5: or a sports person, and teaching has just fallen off 102 00:05:49,800 --> 00:05:51,599 Speaker 5: the list of what people want to do. And I 103 00:05:51,640 --> 00:05:54,799 Speaker 5: think part of that is as much as the conversation 104 00:05:54,920 --> 00:05:57,280 Speaker 5: is around teaching is really hard and really challenging at 105 00:05:57,320 --> 00:06:01,160 Speaker 5: the moment, it's actually not helpful because it puts off 106 00:06:01,200 --> 00:06:03,320 Speaker 5: future generations of teachers Nina. 107 00:06:03,400 --> 00:06:07,160 Speaker 2: The government has recently announced that former teachers previously registered 108 00:06:07,240 --> 00:06:10,560 Speaker 2: can be relievers. Is this welcome news for the sector? 109 00:06:10,839 --> 00:06:14,000 Speaker 3: So I've been monitoring some of the feedback from teachers 110 00:06:14,000 --> 00:06:17,200 Speaker 3: on this, and I think the overwhelming response from them 111 00:06:17,360 --> 00:06:20,040 Speaker 3: is that they're not particularly happy about the situation, and 112 00:06:20,080 --> 00:06:23,200 Speaker 3: I think that that speaks to them feeling like this 113 00:06:23,360 --> 00:06:26,159 Speaker 3: is an additional move to devalue the profession. 114 00:06:27,960 --> 00:06:30,520 Speaker 6: We really feel like this is just a knee jerk, 115 00:06:30,560 --> 00:06:33,520 Speaker 6: stop gap reaction to an issue that we've been raising 116 00:06:33,560 --> 00:06:36,279 Speaker 6: for years. I mean, it is literally better than nothing, 117 00:06:37,240 --> 00:06:39,799 Speaker 6: but it's like turning the heating on when the room's cold, 118 00:06:39,800 --> 00:06:41,720 Speaker 6: but not repairing the broken windows or the holes in 119 00:06:41,760 --> 00:06:45,920 Speaker 6: the wall. Students, young people deserve a qualified subject specialist 120 00:06:45,960 --> 00:06:49,560 Speaker 6: in front of them who can form those really positive relationships. 121 00:06:49,920 --> 00:06:52,040 Speaker 6: You know, we know that students get turned off by 122 00:06:52,040 --> 00:06:53,839 Speaker 6: having a different face in front of them every day, 123 00:06:54,120 --> 00:06:57,160 Speaker 6: because you know, an unqualified teacher isn't a teacher at 124 00:06:57,160 --> 00:06:59,760 Speaker 6: the heart of it. 125 00:07:00,040 --> 00:07:02,400 Speaker 3: And if I look at it, I can absolutely see 126 00:07:02,480 --> 00:07:05,400 Speaker 3: as a short term measure why the government has made 127 00:07:05,480 --> 00:07:06,160 Speaker 3: this decision. 128 00:07:06,680 --> 00:07:09,000 Speaker 4: We know that there's a shortage of relievers. 129 00:07:09,400 --> 00:07:12,200 Speaker 3: We've heard a number of instances of schools having to 130 00:07:12,280 --> 00:07:15,440 Speaker 3: roster students home because they haven't been able to find 131 00:07:15,960 --> 00:07:18,600 Speaker 3: a qualified reliever to be able to be in that 132 00:07:18,680 --> 00:07:22,600 Speaker 3: classroom with the students. So we do need something in 133 00:07:22,640 --> 00:07:25,800 Speaker 3: the short term to try to address that. But unless, 134 00:07:26,120 --> 00:07:29,240 Speaker 3: as Clive talks about, unless we find some sort of 135 00:07:29,360 --> 00:07:32,920 Speaker 3: long term solution to the teaching crisis that we have 136 00:07:33,040 --> 00:07:35,400 Speaker 3: at the moment, we're never going to be able to 137 00:07:35,440 --> 00:07:37,760 Speaker 3: move forward and we're just going to be putting the 138 00:07:37,880 --> 00:07:39,239 Speaker 3: issue further down the road. 139 00:07:39,520 --> 00:07:42,760 Speaker 2: What are some of the downsides on relying on teachers 140 00:07:42,760 --> 00:07:46,160 Speaker 2: from offshore to plug the teacher shortage in New Zealand. 141 00:07:46,320 --> 00:07:48,200 Speaker 3: So what I would say is that there are some 142 00:07:48,520 --> 00:07:51,720 Speaker 3: fantastic teachers who have been trained overseas that come into 143 00:07:51,800 --> 00:07:55,880 Speaker 3: New Zealand and really make a wonderful impact in the 144 00:07:55,920 --> 00:07:58,560 Speaker 3: schools that they're in. But what I would say is 145 00:07:58,600 --> 00:08:02,640 Speaker 3: that there is learning journey that teachers from overseas need 146 00:08:02,680 --> 00:08:05,120 Speaker 3: to go through when they come into a New Zealand school. 147 00:08:05,520 --> 00:08:08,800 Speaker 3: They need to understand the New Zealand curriculum and to 148 00:08:08,920 --> 00:08:12,520 Speaker 3: upskill in that area. They probably will need to upscill 149 00:08:12,640 --> 00:08:15,960 Speaker 3: in some aspects of pedagogy. They will definitely need to 150 00:08:16,080 --> 00:08:20,400 Speaker 3: upscale in terms of their knowledge and understanding of Terreyo Maari, 151 00:08:20,600 --> 00:08:24,520 Speaker 3: of Tkuga of Tiao Mai, which are really important parts 152 00:08:24,560 --> 00:08:26,200 Speaker 3: of New Zealand's education system. 153 00:08:26,720 --> 00:08:28,360 Speaker 4: And so there is going to. 154 00:08:28,280 --> 00:08:31,800 Speaker 3: Be a burden on schools who bring in overseas teachers 155 00:08:32,160 --> 00:08:35,840 Speaker 3: in having to provide that additional support whilst those. 156 00:08:35,640 --> 00:08:38,480 Speaker 4: Teachers get up to speed with the New Zealand context. 157 00:08:38,679 --> 00:08:41,880 Speaker 2: Clive, the new coalition government has been pushing through changes 158 00:08:41,960 --> 00:08:46,240 Speaker 2: to teaching standards. How are teachers coping with some of 159 00:08:46,280 --> 00:08:46,960 Speaker 2: these changes. 160 00:08:47,160 --> 00:08:50,600 Speaker 5: I think they're coping wonderfully well, given that they're facing 161 00:08:50,640 --> 00:08:54,880 Speaker 5: so many different challenges both inside and outside of the classroom. 162 00:08:54,920 --> 00:08:56,920 Speaker 5: At the moment, I just want to pick up the 163 00:08:56,920 --> 00:09:01,800 Speaker 5: point that Anina was talking about strong preference that every 164 00:09:02,240 --> 00:09:04,719 Speaker 5: child or a young person in a classroom or a 165 00:09:04,840 --> 00:09:08,560 Speaker 5: curer or an EC center actually is taught by a 166 00:09:08,559 --> 00:09:12,600 Speaker 5: fully registered and certificated teacher. And our mission is about 167 00:09:12,720 --> 00:09:15,880 Speaker 5: ensuring that children are safe and they have a high quality, 168 00:09:16,000 --> 00:09:19,720 Speaker 5: qualified and experienced teacher in front of them. But there 169 00:09:19,800 --> 00:09:22,520 Speaker 5: is also this need to recognize in the short term 170 00:09:22,559 --> 00:09:25,720 Speaker 5: that we do have this workforce crisis and that children 171 00:09:25,720 --> 00:09:29,000 Speaker 5: will miss out on learning if actually we don't do 172 00:09:29,080 --> 00:09:31,680 Speaker 5: some short term things, but it's important that those short 173 00:09:31,760 --> 00:09:35,240 Speaker 5: term things don't undermine the value of the teaching profession 174 00:09:35,280 --> 00:09:37,280 Speaker 5: in the long term, and we need to find some 175 00:09:37,320 --> 00:09:41,440 Speaker 5: solutions to actually encourage more people to train and become 176 00:09:41,520 --> 00:09:48,880 Speaker 5: teachers in this country. 177 00:09:52,440 --> 00:09:52,680 Speaker 4: Five. 178 00:09:52,760 --> 00:09:56,160 Speaker 2: You say teachers aren't feeling valued at the moment, does 179 00:09:56,200 --> 00:09:58,800 Speaker 2: it feel a bit like they are bearing some sort 180 00:09:58,840 --> 00:10:02,680 Speaker 2: of blame for falling standards among students. Yes, I do. 181 00:10:02,880 --> 00:10:05,360 Speaker 5: And what I've noticed is that the conversation and the 182 00:10:05,440 --> 00:10:10,120 Speaker 5: narrative around education seems to have changed in a remarkably 183 00:10:10,240 --> 00:10:14,640 Speaker 5: short space of time from recognizing that our education system 184 00:10:14,720 --> 00:10:18,400 Speaker 5: is failing some of our kids, so actually now saying, actually, 185 00:10:18,440 --> 00:10:21,000 Speaker 5: our teachers are failing our kids. And I don't think 186 00:10:21,080 --> 00:10:23,520 Speaker 5: that you could argue that that is the truth. Nothing 187 00:10:23,559 --> 00:10:25,840 Speaker 5: could be further from the truth. Our teachers are doing 188 00:10:26,200 --> 00:10:31,199 Speaker 5: an amazing job under very challenging circumstances, and they are 189 00:10:31,240 --> 00:10:33,360 Speaker 5: not in control of all of the parts of the 190 00:10:33,440 --> 00:10:37,880 Speaker 5: system that actually will make the biggest difference to those outcomes. 191 00:10:37,880 --> 00:10:40,840 Speaker 5: So they're not in control of things like learning support 192 00:10:40,960 --> 00:10:43,480 Speaker 5: for children with learning needs, are not in control of 193 00:10:43,520 --> 00:10:46,480 Speaker 5: class sizes, and not in control of the curriculum. But 194 00:10:46,520 --> 00:10:50,040 Speaker 5: they're doing a fantastic job in the circumstances that they're 195 00:10:50,080 --> 00:10:50,760 Speaker 5: facing at the. 196 00:10:50,679 --> 00:10:54,080 Speaker 2: Moment, So essentially they need more resources. That's one of 197 00:10:54,120 --> 00:10:55,160 Speaker 2: the things you're saying. 198 00:10:55,200 --> 00:10:58,280 Speaker 5: What teachers tell us is that the top concerns they're 199 00:10:58,320 --> 00:11:02,480 Speaker 5: facing a stress in the word workload. Financial compensation is 200 00:11:02,559 --> 00:11:06,160 Speaker 5: part of the concerns, but resources and support for them 201 00:11:06,160 --> 00:11:09,200 Speaker 5: in the classroom, the number of children that they have 202 00:11:09,360 --> 00:11:12,400 Speaker 5: in one space, the amount of resource for children with 203 00:11:12,520 --> 00:11:15,320 Speaker 5: learning support needs. It's not just about pay, it's also 204 00:11:15,360 --> 00:11:18,960 Speaker 5: about those support resources and leadership to help them face 205 00:11:19,040 --> 00:11:21,880 Speaker 5: those challenges that are coming their way in the classroom. 206 00:11:22,320 --> 00:11:24,560 Speaker 5: The nature of our learners is changing, the nature of 207 00:11:24,600 --> 00:11:28,040 Speaker 5: technology is changing. So there's all these new things coming 208 00:11:28,080 --> 00:11:31,200 Speaker 5: teacher's way and they do their very best every day 209 00:11:31,240 --> 00:11:33,960 Speaker 5: to actually make the difference for the kids that are 210 00:11:33,960 --> 00:11:34,640 Speaker 5: in front of them. 211 00:11:34,760 --> 00:11:38,200 Speaker 2: Okay, Nina, looking back to the COVID lockdowns, how has 212 00:11:38,520 --> 00:11:39,800 Speaker 2: that impacted the sector? 213 00:11:40,080 --> 00:11:43,520 Speaker 3: I think we're still seeing the impact of COVID on 214 00:11:43,640 --> 00:11:47,480 Speaker 3: young people and on our schools. So for a number 215 00:11:47,480 --> 00:11:51,400 Speaker 3: of conversations with teachers, what they are indicating is that 216 00:11:51,760 --> 00:11:55,960 Speaker 3: in terms of children's social and emotional development, there are 217 00:11:56,160 --> 00:11:57,320 Speaker 3: one to two years. 218 00:11:57,120 --> 00:11:59,800 Speaker 4: Behind where they otherwise might have been. 219 00:12:00,080 --> 00:12:03,360 Speaker 3: So, for instance, students coming into year nine, the start 220 00:12:03,360 --> 00:12:06,760 Speaker 3: of secondary school, many of their social skills, much of 221 00:12:06,800 --> 00:12:11,480 Speaker 3: their emotional development is more at an intermediate level. And 222 00:12:11,559 --> 00:12:15,400 Speaker 3: so this is obviously putting additional strain onto schools and 223 00:12:15,480 --> 00:12:19,400 Speaker 3: onto teachers, and they're having to adapt their programs. They're 224 00:12:19,440 --> 00:12:22,880 Speaker 3: having to focus on areas that they previously might not 225 00:12:22,960 --> 00:12:25,080 Speaker 3: have had to focus on in quite the same way. 226 00:12:25,520 --> 00:12:28,160 Speaker 3: I think what a number of schools are also indicating 227 00:12:28,360 --> 00:12:31,880 Speaker 3: is that the COVID lockdowns have also had an impact 228 00:12:32,040 --> 00:12:35,360 Speaker 3: on some of the key academic achievement and. 229 00:12:35,400 --> 00:12:37,400 Speaker 4: Key academic skills coming through. 230 00:12:37,800 --> 00:12:40,840 Speaker 3: And so again teachers are having to fill in some 231 00:12:40,920 --> 00:12:44,200 Speaker 3: of those gaps that are present in children's learning to 232 00:12:44,360 --> 00:12:47,280 Speaker 3: ensure that they can't continue to progress and to succeed 233 00:12:47,360 --> 00:12:48,200 Speaker 3: in their education. 234 00:12:48,720 --> 00:12:52,240 Speaker 2: Looking to some solutions now, Clive, if the Ministry of 235 00:12:52,360 --> 00:12:55,720 Speaker 2: Education hired you to implement some changes to the sector, 236 00:12:56,160 --> 00:12:58,319 Speaker 2: what would be your first priority? 237 00:12:58,600 --> 00:13:02,520 Speaker 5: Actually, what it says all the education agencies and teachers 238 00:13:02,760 --> 00:13:05,040 Speaker 5: we're all in this together, and we're all working together 239 00:13:05,120 --> 00:13:08,400 Speaker 5: to try and improve outcomes for learners. So I wouldn't 240 00:13:08,400 --> 00:13:10,920 Speaker 5: take you up on that challenge. As a teaching counsel. 241 00:13:11,000 --> 00:13:14,160 Speaker 5: Will continue to focus on strengthening the manner of teaching, 242 00:13:14,480 --> 00:13:17,000 Speaker 5: will continue to focus on the safety of learners and 243 00:13:17,000 --> 00:13:19,880 Speaker 5: classrooms and the quality of teachers. And that's our contribution 244 00:13:20,080 --> 00:13:24,400 Speaker 5: in our joined up education system as it needs to be. 245 00:13:24,440 --> 00:13:27,280 Speaker 1: In a statement, the Education Minister say she's asked the 246 00:13:27,320 --> 00:13:30,920 Speaker 1: ministry to develop a teacher supply strategy as well as 247 00:13:30,960 --> 00:13:34,720 Speaker 1: an urgent plan to address the relief teacher shortage. Fifty 248 00:13:34,760 --> 00:13:37,960 Speaker 1: three million dollars was invested in teacher training in this 249 00:13:38,080 --> 00:13:38,800 Speaker 1: year's budget. 250 00:13:39,080 --> 00:13:41,600 Speaker 3: Whilst around enough teachers, we're putting a lot of pressure 251 00:13:41,679 --> 00:13:44,240 Speaker 3: and a lot of strain on those good people who are. 252 00:13:44,160 --> 00:13:47,760 Speaker 1: Teaching these principles, calling for the government to slow down 253 00:13:47,800 --> 00:13:51,440 Speaker 1: the introduction of maths and literacy changes as schools focus 254 00:13:51,480 --> 00:13:53,840 Speaker 1: on keeping classes running however they. 255 00:13:53,760 --> 00:13:59,480 Speaker 2: Can and Clive, you've heard some innovative ideas around solutions 256 00:13:59,520 --> 00:14:01,400 Speaker 2: for the sect. Can you tell us about some of 257 00:14:01,440 --> 00:14:02,080 Speaker 2: those yep. 258 00:14:02,200 --> 00:14:06,679 Speaker 5: So recently we participated in a teacher supply summit that 259 00:14:06,800 --> 00:14:10,680 Speaker 5: was organized were hosted by NZDI, one of the two 260 00:14:10,720 --> 00:14:13,840 Speaker 5: big unions. There were a lot of different parties from 261 00:14:13,880 --> 00:14:17,200 Speaker 5: within the sector there, as I said, unions and teacher 262 00:14:17,240 --> 00:14:22,000 Speaker 5: training providers, ourselves, other education agencies, and we had students 263 00:14:22,040 --> 00:14:24,480 Speaker 5: in the room as well. So we came up with 264 00:14:24,560 --> 00:14:27,040 Speaker 5: a long list of challenges as you'd expect, but also 265 00:14:27,120 --> 00:14:30,960 Speaker 5: started actually mapping out some potential solutions which cover a 266 00:14:31,080 --> 00:14:33,720 Speaker 5: range of things across you know, how can we make 267 00:14:33,960 --> 00:14:38,040 Speaker 5: actually teaching attractive to the current and future generations because 268 00:14:38,280 --> 00:14:40,520 Speaker 5: you know, they're actually in the environment every day. We 269 00:14:40,520 --> 00:14:43,600 Speaker 5: should better actually support people to actually see what a 270 00:14:43,640 --> 00:14:47,000 Speaker 5: wonderful career and profession teaching is. But also about the 271 00:14:47,040 --> 00:14:49,800 Speaker 5: retention of teachers as well, is that you know, those 272 00:14:49,960 --> 00:14:53,160 Speaker 5: early stages of a teacher's career, they're still learning on 273 00:14:53,200 --> 00:14:55,840 Speaker 5: the job, they're facing a lot of new challenges. So 274 00:14:56,000 --> 00:14:58,880 Speaker 5: what can we do to actually help retain those beginning 275 00:14:58,920 --> 00:15:01,800 Speaker 5: teachers at a whole higher rate than what's being achieved 276 00:15:01,800 --> 00:15:04,680 Speaker 5: at the moment. And then how can we support those 277 00:15:04,800 --> 00:15:09,240 Speaker 5: really experienced teachers to actually contribute to our children and 278 00:15:09,320 --> 00:15:11,800 Speaker 5: young people at the end of their career and they 279 00:15:11,840 --> 00:15:14,440 Speaker 5: might be thinking about, well, maybe it's time to retire. 280 00:15:14,520 --> 00:15:18,120 Speaker 5: Maybe there's a model where they can actually transition into 281 00:15:18,440 --> 00:15:20,000 Speaker 5: a reliever type role, and. 282 00:15:19,920 --> 00:15:22,680 Speaker 2: Were there any particular ideas that were brought up in 283 00:15:22,720 --> 00:15:24,640 Speaker 2: that workshop you wanted to highlight. 284 00:15:24,920 --> 00:15:28,160 Speaker 5: What we are working on with others is helping to 285 00:15:28,240 --> 00:15:31,320 Speaker 5: shape the understanding of the public around what it means 286 00:15:31,320 --> 00:15:34,560 Speaker 5: to be a teacher. I think as parents and communities, 287 00:15:34,600 --> 00:15:37,280 Speaker 5: we love teachers, we have a high degree of trust 288 00:15:37,280 --> 00:15:40,520 Speaker 5: in them, but we really don't understand that not everyone 289 00:15:40,560 --> 00:15:43,200 Speaker 5: can be a teacher, and that it's a profession that 290 00:15:43,280 --> 00:15:47,520 Speaker 5: requires a high degree of qualifications, skill and experienced teachers 291 00:15:47,600 --> 00:15:50,840 Speaker 5: are experts in learning, and I think that's one thing 292 00:15:50,880 --> 00:15:53,360 Speaker 5: that in the public view that we don't understand what 293 00:15:53,400 --> 00:15:55,400 Speaker 5: it is about teaching. And you see that in a 294 00:15:55,480 --> 00:15:59,160 Speaker 5: really extreme kind of case when you think about ECEE, 295 00:15:59,440 --> 00:16:02,680 Speaker 5: which and a lot of people think about is paid childcare, 296 00:16:03,080 --> 00:16:05,400 Speaker 5: but actually a lot of huge part of a child's 297 00:16:05,440 --> 00:16:09,600 Speaker 5: learning and development happens in the ece and having registered 298 00:16:09,640 --> 00:16:13,080 Speaker 5: and certificated teachers in front of those children is vital. 299 00:16:13,360 --> 00:16:15,800 Speaker 2: Is there anything either of you would like to put 300 00:16:15,840 --> 00:16:18,360 Speaker 2: out there to those parents who may be listening to this, 301 00:16:18,440 --> 00:16:22,000 Speaker 2: who might be concerned about the quality of their children's education. 302 00:16:22,320 --> 00:16:25,160 Speaker 3: Well, I'd say that between the two of us, Clive 303 00:16:25,160 --> 00:16:28,200 Speaker 3: and I have highlighted a number of the challenges that 304 00:16:28,280 --> 00:16:31,800 Speaker 3: the education system is facing. But in spite of all 305 00:16:31,840 --> 00:16:36,520 Speaker 3: of that, we have some absolutely amazing teachers around New Zealand, 306 00:16:36,920 --> 00:16:39,920 Speaker 3: and we have some really incredible schools as well, and 307 00:16:40,000 --> 00:16:43,000 Speaker 3: I think I am fortunate enough to spend a bit 308 00:16:43,040 --> 00:16:48,840 Speaker 3: of time going into schools, and schools are wonderful, vibrant. 309 00:16:48,840 --> 00:16:49,920 Speaker 4: Happy places. 310 00:16:50,560 --> 00:16:53,560 Speaker 3: So for all the issues and challenges that there are, 311 00:16:54,040 --> 00:16:56,760 Speaker 3: and they really do exist, and we do need to 312 00:16:56,800 --> 00:16:58,840 Speaker 3: make sure that we've got a plan for addressing them, 313 00:16:59,120 --> 00:17:01,400 Speaker 3: but in spite of all of that, there is some 314 00:17:01,560 --> 00:17:06,000 Speaker 3: wonderful work that's been done across the sector and many 315 00:17:06,080 --> 00:17:08,880 Speaker 3: children are receiving a fantastic education. 316 00:17:09,200 --> 00:17:12,439 Speaker 5: I would also say that we've got amazing teachers in 317 00:17:12,480 --> 00:17:16,080 Speaker 5: this country. They are committed people, they're passionate, they're caring. 318 00:17:16,359 --> 00:17:21,119 Speaker 5: They're also highly qualified, highly skilled, highly trained experts, and 319 00:17:21,200 --> 00:17:23,000 Speaker 5: we might not see the work that they do on 320 00:17:23,040 --> 00:17:26,160 Speaker 5: a day to day basis, but they're critically important because 321 00:17:26,240 --> 00:17:28,840 Speaker 5: when you think about all of the big problems that 322 00:17:29,000 --> 00:17:31,960 Speaker 5: New Zealand is facing in the future, from things like 323 00:17:32,160 --> 00:17:37,160 Speaker 5: climate change, an equality to racism to a long list 324 00:17:37,200 --> 00:17:40,760 Speaker 5: of big issues, it's actually teachers that are equipping the 325 00:17:40,880 --> 00:17:45,080 Speaker 5: current and our future generations to solve those problems. So 326 00:17:45,160 --> 00:17:47,240 Speaker 5: teachers have a critical role to play, and they do 327 00:17:47,280 --> 00:17:50,960 Speaker 5: an amazing job under challenging conditions every day. But I'm 328 00:17:51,000 --> 00:17:53,760 Speaker 5: really optimistic about the future and about the quality of 329 00:17:53,760 --> 00:17:54,400 Speaker 5: our teachers. 330 00:17:54,680 --> 00:18:02,080 Speaker 2: Well put, Nina and Clive, thanks for joining us. That's 331 00:18:02,119 --> 00:18:04,720 Speaker 2: it for this episode of The Front Page. You can 332 00:18:04,760 --> 00:18:08,120 Speaker 2: read more about today's stories and extensive news coverage at 333 00:18:08,160 --> 00:18:11,679 Speaker 2: Inset Herald dot co dot endzet. The Front Page is 334 00:18:11,720 --> 00:18:15,280 Speaker 2: produced by Ethan Sills. Patty Fox is a sound engineer. 335 00:18:15,520 --> 00:18:19,320 Speaker 2: I'm Susan Nordquist. Subscribe to The Front Page on iHeartRadio 336 00:18:19,480 --> 00:18:22,480 Speaker 2: or wherever you get your podcasts, and tune in tomorrow 337 00:18:22,480 --> 00:18:24,399 Speaker 2: for another look behind the headlines.