1 00:00:06,667 --> 00:00:10,387 Speaker 1: You're listening to the Weekend Sport podcast with Jason Vine 2 00:00:10,707 --> 00:00:11,507 Speaker 1: from Newstalks. 3 00:00:11,587 --> 00:00:16,187 Speaker 2: EDB just chatted about with Brendan Laney. Wales's wretched run 4 00:00:16,187 --> 00:00:19,787 Speaker 2: in Six Nations rugby has continued, but they got closed 5 00:00:19,827 --> 00:00:23,307 Speaker 2: losing twenty six twenty three to Scotland in Cardiff. It's 6 00:00:23,347 --> 00:00:27,547 Speaker 2: their fourteenth Six Nations loss in a row. There's always 7 00:00:27,587 --> 00:00:30,987 Speaker 2: a surprise, there's regularly a sting in the tail and 8 00:00:31,147 --> 00:00:36,827 Speaker 2: here we are again, six minutes left fourcorn came no more. 9 00:00:38,147 --> 00:00:40,947 Speaker 2: Scotland hit the front with the. 10 00:00:41,067 --> 00:00:46,947 Speaker 1: Nucular time before on the round and Scotland's have snatched 11 00:00:47,147 --> 00:00:49,627 Speaker 1: victory from the jobs of Defeast. 12 00:00:49,827 --> 00:00:54,107 Speaker 2: More heartbreak for Wales, but heartbreak you feel that a 13 00:00:54,147 --> 00:00:56,947 Speaker 2: foundation can be built on. Yeah, maybe that will be 14 00:00:56,987 --> 00:00:59,027 Speaker 2: the case for whiles. So Scotland go to the top 15 00:00:59,067 --> 00:01:03,107 Speaker 2: of the Six Nations table for now. England meantime suffering 16 00:01:03,227 --> 00:01:08,427 Speaker 2: back to back defeats thumped forty twenty one by Ireland 17 00:01:08,507 --> 00:01:12,827 Speaker 2: at Twickenham. Real confidence and freedom nine huge numbers on 18 00:01:12,867 --> 00:01:13,987 Speaker 2: the right hand side. 19 00:01:14,267 --> 00:01:19,707 Speaker 3: Tag Burn Osborne stares. 20 00:01:20,787 --> 00:01:23,667 Speaker 1: Like Ana tondas Eland. 21 00:01:23,747 --> 00:01:29,827 Speaker 2: I've squeezed alayside of England in the home ground. Yeah, 22 00:01:29,827 --> 00:01:33,307 Speaker 2: what a win for Ireland. What a defeat for England. 23 00:01:33,547 --> 00:01:35,827 Speaker 2: James Burrige as with us from the BBC. I'm actually 24 00:01:35,987 --> 00:01:39,787 Speaker 2: mildly surprised that you've taken my call, James. 25 00:01:40,387 --> 00:01:44,227 Speaker 3: I think we're very lucky that I have actually picked 26 00:01:44,267 --> 00:01:49,067 Speaker 3: up the FAE because you've got me prepping silver for 27 00:01:49,147 --> 00:01:53,587 Speaker 3: Italy France tomorrow, so knee deep in research, I see you. 28 00:01:53,987 --> 00:01:56,347 Speaker 3: How can I refuse you? Piney? How can I refuse 29 00:01:56,467 --> 00:01:57,107 Speaker 3: to your call? 30 00:01:57,227 --> 00:01:59,987 Speaker 2: Well? It is it's great to chat to forty two 31 00:02:00,187 --> 00:02:03,987 Speaker 2: twenty one Ireland over England at Twickenham. What was the 32 00:02:04,027 --> 00:02:05,627 Speaker 2: story of this game? 33 00:02:06,987 --> 00:02:10,867 Speaker 3: It was It's a story of complete mental disintegration, isn't 34 00:02:10,867 --> 00:02:16,307 Speaker 3: It's It's stunning to see the drop in England and 35 00:02:16,347 --> 00:02:22,627 Speaker 3: the total lack of performance, the total lack of leadership 36 00:02:22,907 --> 00:02:26,147 Speaker 3: from an England team which was having Mari returj celebrating 37 00:02:26,147 --> 00:02:29,787 Speaker 3: one hundred caps, Jamie George in the front row, another centurion. 38 00:02:31,347 --> 00:02:35,867 Speaker 3: It's just bewildering and astonishing. And I don't know, I'm 39 00:02:35,867 --> 00:02:37,747 Speaker 3: not sure if five minutes on the blow with me 40 00:02:37,907 --> 00:02:39,587 Speaker 3: is going to its kind of get to the heart 41 00:02:39,627 --> 00:02:45,027 Speaker 3: of it, because nobody saw this coming, least of all England. 42 00:02:45,067 --> 00:02:49,107 Speaker 3: Themselves and that is part of the problem. 43 00:02:49,147 --> 00:02:52,467 Speaker 2: So I mean, you know, there's a statement there for 44 00:02:52,507 --> 00:02:54,707 Speaker 2: anybody who hasn't watched the game, they're going to now 45 00:02:54,747 --> 00:02:58,747 Speaker 2: be rushing off to watch exactly what happened. In rugby terms. 46 00:02:59,107 --> 00:02:59,747 Speaker 2: What happened. 47 00:03:00,907 --> 00:03:02,987 Speaker 3: They had the pants pulled down two weeks in a row. 48 00:03:03,027 --> 00:03:07,827 Speaker 3: That's what's happened. The Scots did it last and the 49 00:03:07,867 --> 00:03:11,467 Speaker 3: Irish basically took that blueprint and fair and pretty much 50 00:03:11,507 --> 00:03:14,667 Speaker 3: went through it. And of course what they were able 51 00:03:14,667 --> 00:03:18,707 Speaker 3: to do is stretching them to England a very one 52 00:03:18,707 --> 00:03:23,467 Speaker 3: on one tackling is terrible. And of course Borthwick's I 53 00:03:23,507 --> 00:03:26,147 Speaker 3: suppose his recipe for success that he has been his 54 00:03:26,187 --> 00:03:29,147 Speaker 3: blueprint ever since the kickchase rules have changed. He's been 55 00:03:29,187 --> 00:03:31,867 Speaker 3: basing a lot of England's attack on that. The problem 56 00:03:31,907 --> 00:03:34,347 Speaker 3: is if you base your attack on that and you 57 00:03:34,427 --> 00:03:38,427 Speaker 3: don't win the high ball, what do you do? And 58 00:03:38,507 --> 00:03:41,907 Speaker 3: England don't have a plan B, and their attacking shape 59 00:03:41,907 --> 00:03:46,947 Speaker 3: has completely gone and their leaders are not leading. Maritoji, 60 00:03:47,867 --> 00:03:51,147 Speaker 3: the poor guy's gone through awful and awful few months 61 00:03:51,187 --> 00:03:55,307 Speaker 3: losing his beloved mother and it's been very, very difficult 62 00:03:55,307 --> 00:03:57,267 Speaker 3: for him. He's been injured as well. He's come off 63 00:03:57,267 --> 00:03:58,707 Speaker 3: the back of a Lions tour, so I think his 64 00:03:58,747 --> 00:04:01,747 Speaker 3: body is shattered. But he is not the maritoji that 65 00:04:01,787 --> 00:04:04,427 Speaker 3: we are used to seeing. You've had George Ford kicking 66 00:04:04,467 --> 00:04:08,547 Speaker 3: two penalty kicks to touch out on the full and 67 00:04:08,627 --> 00:04:10,867 Speaker 3: a lot of England's big leaders are just not doing 68 00:04:10,907 --> 00:04:15,027 Speaker 3: the job. They're con seizing quick starts to the opposition 69 00:04:15,067 --> 00:04:17,827 Speaker 3: and before they know it, they're fifteen twenty points down 70 00:04:17,867 --> 00:04:23,307 Speaker 3: after fifteen minutes and they're totally rattled. And today you 71 00:04:23,347 --> 00:04:26,667 Speaker 3: could see that scar tissue re emerging. And I think 72 00:04:26,747 --> 00:04:28,947 Speaker 3: last week did they kid themselves that there was just 73 00:04:28,987 --> 00:04:32,987 Speaker 3: a blemish against Scotland last week? Well, I mean they've 74 00:04:33,027 --> 00:04:39,267 Speaker 3: been brutally exposed today and I think what's slightly bewildering 75 00:04:39,267 --> 00:04:41,427 Speaker 3: about all this is they don't really know what the 76 00:04:41,467 --> 00:04:45,707 Speaker 3: answer is and that comes down to coaching. I mean, 77 00:04:45,707 --> 00:04:47,987 Speaker 3: we all know that professional sports is brutal. We all 78 00:04:48,027 --> 00:04:50,467 Speaker 3: know that it can swing on a couple of things 79 00:04:50,507 --> 00:04:52,747 Speaker 3: here and there. This is not a couple of things. 80 00:04:53,107 --> 00:04:56,467 Speaker 3: It's basic things like retreating winning the ball. There's no 81 00:04:56,627 --> 00:05:00,147 Speaker 3: hunger remote Deil Warren Gaplan says, it's about being good 82 00:05:00,187 --> 00:05:02,787 Speaker 3: at the at the jobs that nobody really wants to do. 83 00:05:02,827 --> 00:05:05,067 Speaker 3: The easy ones be the best at everything that requires 84 00:05:05,067 --> 00:05:09,187 Speaker 3: no talent. That was Gaplan's England are just not ticking 85 00:05:09,467 --> 00:05:13,907 Speaker 3: any of those boxes. They are so incredibly inaccurate. They're 86 00:05:13,907 --> 00:05:17,267 Speaker 3: turning the ball over far too much. They don't adapt 87 00:05:17,307 --> 00:05:21,027 Speaker 3: their tactics, and defensively they're all over the place. And 88 00:05:21,667 --> 00:05:23,627 Speaker 3: once you lose the aerial battle and you throw all 89 00:05:23,627 --> 00:05:27,387 Speaker 3: that into one big miss mix, it is one big mess. 90 00:05:27,507 --> 00:05:31,067 Speaker 2: Piney, so Italy next, and then France to finish the 91 00:05:31,107 --> 00:05:33,827 Speaker 2: six Nations. I think any hope that they might win 92 00:05:33,907 --> 00:05:35,627 Speaker 2: the six Nations probably. 93 00:05:35,227 --> 00:05:37,227 Speaker 3: Gone gone completely gone. 94 00:05:37,707 --> 00:05:41,427 Speaker 2: So what now then? What do you predict they will do? What? 95 00:05:41,427 --> 00:05:43,867 Speaker 2: What must they do now for these remaining two matches, 96 00:05:43,907 --> 00:05:47,747 Speaker 2: particularly the season inder against France, even if there's no 97 00:05:47,827 --> 00:05:49,987 Speaker 2: six Nations to be head. I mean, there's gonna be 98 00:05:49,987 --> 00:05:52,227 Speaker 2: tough gun. There's gonna be tough gun of pairs, gonna 99 00:05:52,227 --> 00:05:52,627 Speaker 2: be tough gun. 100 00:05:54,467 --> 00:05:57,627 Speaker 3: I tell you what's really interesting is this is the 101 00:05:57,667 --> 00:06:00,947 Speaker 3: first year where there's only been one rest weekend. Now, 102 00:06:00,947 --> 00:06:03,187 Speaker 3: typically we wouldn't have had this was last year, we 103 00:06:03,227 --> 00:06:05,147 Speaker 3: wouldn't have had a game. So put yourself on board 104 00:06:05,187 --> 00:06:07,707 Speaker 3: with in England's shoes. You get by Scotland last week, 105 00:06:07,987 --> 00:06:10,987 Speaker 3: you would have had two weeks to really go into 106 00:06:11,027 --> 00:06:14,627 Speaker 3: it in detail and tighten up everything and then go 107 00:06:14,667 --> 00:06:17,787 Speaker 3: again against Ireland. They didn't have that time. They had 108 00:06:17,787 --> 00:06:20,427 Speaker 3: to go straight on the horse again. Now they've got 109 00:06:20,427 --> 00:06:25,387 Speaker 3: two weeks to fester on two horror shows. And I 110 00:06:25,387 --> 00:06:28,067 Speaker 3: suppose the big questions the result of this is, well, 111 00:06:28,067 --> 00:06:31,667 Speaker 3: who's he going to change selectory? I mean, I cannot 112 00:06:31,667 --> 00:06:34,187 Speaker 3: see how George Ford starts again at ten, So it's 113 00:06:34,227 --> 00:06:35,787 Speaker 3: a question of whether it's going to be Marcus Smith 114 00:06:35,867 --> 00:06:40,507 Speaker 3: or Finn Smith. Well, I mean, George Ford so much experienced, 115 00:06:40,707 --> 00:06:46,227 Speaker 3: a great tactical player, but just hasn't been there for 116 00:06:46,267 --> 00:06:49,427 Speaker 3: the last two weeks for England, so I would put 117 00:06:49,467 --> 00:06:51,667 Speaker 3: Finn Smith in there. I think they're badly missing George 118 00:06:51,707 --> 00:06:55,227 Speaker 3: Fairbank at fullback because he offers that degree of vision 119 00:06:55,787 --> 00:06:59,787 Speaker 3: of he's able to knit players together. He's got great 120 00:06:59,827 --> 00:07:02,067 Speaker 3: he's a great cohesive player, but he also is a 121 00:07:02,067 --> 00:07:04,107 Speaker 3: great orchestrator and passer of the ball and he can 122 00:07:04,147 --> 00:07:06,227 Speaker 3: get a back line going. England just don't have that 123 00:07:06,347 --> 00:07:10,027 Speaker 3: extra receiver in the same way that Ramos combines brilliantly 124 00:07:10,027 --> 00:07:12,867 Speaker 3: with Jalibo in that French back line and not seeing 125 00:07:12,907 --> 00:07:16,347 Speaker 3: Furbanks are Ramos. But he does have a similar skill set, 126 00:07:16,587 --> 00:07:18,507 Speaker 3: so the backline is going to need to take a 127 00:07:18,627 --> 00:07:22,587 Speaker 3: serious re examination. Henry Arundall was given a chance to 128 00:07:22,667 --> 00:07:26,387 Speaker 3: make amends for his red card against Scotland. He barely 129 00:07:26,427 --> 00:07:30,787 Speaker 3: featured defensively, he was exposed. I can't see Aarondalls starting 130 00:07:30,787 --> 00:07:33,827 Speaker 3: against Italy and on that I mean Italy. I mean 131 00:07:33,867 --> 00:07:36,467 Speaker 3: they've got to play France tomorrow. But if you're Italy, 132 00:07:37,107 --> 00:07:40,587 Speaker 3: you're going to be in Rome fancying your first ever 133 00:07:40,667 --> 00:07:43,787 Speaker 3: scalp against the English because English confidence will be shot 134 00:07:43,907 --> 00:07:46,347 Speaker 3: to bits. You know, they've built this winning run of 135 00:07:46,387 --> 00:07:50,147 Speaker 3: twelve games in a row and in two games that's 136 00:07:50,187 --> 00:07:53,027 Speaker 3: been completely you know, completely destroyed. 137 00:07:53,547 --> 00:07:55,947 Speaker 2: Just to finish on utterly as you say, that'll send 138 00:07:55,987 --> 00:07:59,147 Speaker 2: it because what they beat Scotland, they were within seven 139 00:07:59,187 --> 00:08:02,027 Speaker 2: points of Ireland. They'll play France tomorrow. That's tough, but 140 00:08:02,067 --> 00:08:05,227 Speaker 2: you're right back home. They'll fancy it. In terms of 141 00:08:05,347 --> 00:08:08,707 Speaker 2: tomorrow's game against I mean that couldn't possibly be France, 142 00:08:08,747 --> 00:08:09,107 Speaker 2: could they. 143 00:08:09,867 --> 00:08:12,467 Speaker 3: Well remember what happened two years ago. You might remember 144 00:08:12,507 --> 00:08:15,707 Speaker 3: the dying minutes and Garbici has the penalt that the 145 00:08:15,787 --> 00:08:18,787 Speaker 3: kick to win it, and the ball falls off the 146 00:08:18,827 --> 00:08:22,147 Speaker 3: kicking tea. The French water bottle carrier is still on 147 00:08:22,147 --> 00:08:24,787 Speaker 3: the pitch and he's walking towards Garbici. As he's trying 148 00:08:24,827 --> 00:08:28,347 Speaker 3: to take the kick. The ball falls off the kicking tea. 149 00:08:28,427 --> 00:08:30,587 Speaker 3: Garbici looks to the ref. The ref says, get on 150 00:08:30,667 --> 00:08:32,627 Speaker 3: with it. He has six seconds to try and kick it. 151 00:08:32,787 --> 00:08:34,827 Speaker 3: He races to put the ball on the tee and 152 00:08:34,867 --> 00:08:38,147 Speaker 3: then misses the kick. We had all that and it 153 00:08:38,267 --> 00:08:40,107 Speaker 3: got that kick. They would have won it in Leo 154 00:08:40,147 --> 00:08:42,707 Speaker 3: two years ago, and that has been playing around in 155 00:08:42,747 --> 00:08:45,827 Speaker 3: Garbici's head ever since. He wouldn't be human if he didn't. 156 00:08:46,547 --> 00:08:48,907 Speaker 3: Can they win tomorrow? I mean France have gone very 157 00:08:48,907 --> 00:08:51,547 Speaker 3: strong again. They've made just a couple of changes in 158 00:08:51,587 --> 00:08:53,547 Speaker 3: the second row and that is it, and they have 159 00:08:53,667 --> 00:08:56,107 Speaker 3: beefed up their pack because they know the Italian front 160 00:08:56,147 --> 00:09:00,107 Speaker 3: five have been devastating in this tournament so far. I 161 00:09:00,587 --> 00:09:03,667 Speaker 3: don't think nobody expects the way France are playing right now. 162 00:09:03,747 --> 00:09:07,667 Speaker 3: Nobody expects his lead to get close, But who knows. 163 00:09:07,787 --> 00:09:11,147 Speaker 3: This is a funny old tournament. Piney every every kind 164 00:09:11,227 --> 00:09:15,027 Speaker 3: of premonition we thought might happen. Let me throw that 165 00:09:15,067 --> 00:09:16,547 Speaker 3: out the throw that out of the window. 166 00:09:17,507 --> 00:09:19,867 Speaker 2: James. Always such a pleasure chatting rugby with you, mate. 167 00:09:19,867 --> 00:09:21,987 Speaker 2: Thank you so much for taking my call on this 168 00:09:22,267 --> 00:09:23,467 Speaker 2: challenging day for you. 169 00:09:23,267 --> 00:09:25,147 Speaker 3: You're a lucky man, That's all I can say. 170 00:09:26,867 --> 00:09:29,427 Speaker 2: James burros out of the BBC in the UK, prepping 171 00:09:29,427 --> 00:09:32,307 Speaker 2: for tomorrow's game, but also keeping an eye on everything 172 00:09:32,307 --> 00:09:35,307 Speaker 2: else that's happening six nations wise. So just to recap 173 00:09:35,307 --> 00:09:38,867 Speaker 2: the scores overnight twenty six twenty three, Scotland getting home 174 00:09:38,907 --> 00:09:42,307 Speaker 2: against excuse me against Wales, England going down forty two 175 00:09:42,307 --> 00:09:45,307 Speaker 2: to twenty one to Ireland at Twickenham. 176 00:09:46,347 --> 00:09:49,507 Speaker 1: For more from Weekend Sport with Jason Fine, listen live 177 00:09:49,627 --> 00:09:52,907 Speaker 1: to news Talks it Be weekends from midday, or follow 178 00:09:52,947 --> 00:09:54,507 Speaker 1: the podcast on iHeartRadio