1 00:00:06,667 --> 00:00:10,427 Speaker 1: You're listening to the Weekend Sport podcast with Jason Fine 2 00:00:10,707 --> 00:00:11,787 Speaker 1: from Newstalk zed B. 3 00:00:13,027 --> 00:00:16,667 Speaker 2: Fine's Mackenzie text it over the touch line, the Capital 4 00:00:16,747 --> 00:00:20,747 Speaker 2: Pairs ends and the All Blacks When Sam Kaine's one 5 00:00:20,827 --> 00:00:25,307 Speaker 2: hundredths is final on home soil, TJ Penina's final on 6 00:00:25,387 --> 00:00:29,507 Speaker 2: home soil thirty three point thirteen over the Wallabies at 7 00:00:29,507 --> 00:00:30,787 Speaker 2: sky Stadium. 8 00:00:30,507 --> 00:00:33,507 Speaker 3: The final test on home soil for samkin and for 9 00:00:33,587 --> 00:00:38,307 Speaker 3: TJ Peninata. But will that be their final test? Full Stop? 10 00:00:38,707 --> 00:00:41,067 Speaker 3: Your Black squad for the end of season two revealed 11 00:00:41,107 --> 00:00:45,307 Speaker 3: at two o'clock tomorrow for test matches against Japan, England, Ireland, 12 00:00:45,347 --> 00:00:48,467 Speaker 3: France and Italy. It's a tough tour. Scott Robertson will 13 00:00:48,507 --> 00:00:52,187 Speaker 3: name a thirty six man touring party, while a twenty 14 00:00:52,307 --> 00:00:55,707 Speaker 3: nine man All Blacks fifteen squad will also be named 15 00:00:55,707 --> 00:00:58,907 Speaker 3: for matches against Munster and Georgia. That side to be 16 00:00:58,987 --> 00:01:02,467 Speaker 3: coached by Clayton McMillan. There's also been word and Scott 17 00:01:02,547 --> 00:01:05,907 Speaker 3: Robertson confirmed this that there may well be movement of 18 00:01:05,987 --> 00:01:09,347 Speaker 3: player between the two squads. So what are we sixty 19 00:01:09,427 --> 00:01:12,067 Speaker 3: five players there are going to be announced in one 20 00:01:12,067 --> 00:01:14,867 Speaker 3: of those two squads tomorrow afternoon. Let's bring in sir 21 00:01:14,947 --> 00:01:18,507 Speaker 3: John Kerwin, ninety six match All Black former international coach, 22 00:01:18,987 --> 00:01:21,107 Speaker 3: now a major part of sky sports coverage of the 23 00:01:21,147 --> 00:01:25,467 Speaker 3: All Blacks through commentary, analysis and his role on the breakdown. JK, 24 00:01:25,507 --> 00:01:27,507 Speaker 3: thanks for joining. It's going to start with the halfbacks. 25 00:01:27,867 --> 00:01:32,307 Speaker 3: Do you think TJ Petinata will go on this Northern Tour? 26 00:01:33,707 --> 00:01:38,307 Speaker 4: No, I don't. I think that With Rougard coming back, 27 00:01:39,867 --> 00:01:43,427 Speaker 4: I believe that it's time possibly to take some risks. 28 00:01:43,547 --> 00:01:47,547 Speaker 4: TJ's been amazing signed with Japan. I put him in 29 00:01:47,587 --> 00:01:51,507 Speaker 4: the same category as Sam Kane at some stage. I 30 00:01:51,507 --> 00:01:53,587 Speaker 4: think we've got to give some of these younger guys 31 00:01:53,587 --> 00:01:58,307 Speaker 4: a bit more of an opportunity, you know. So for me, 32 00:01:58,467 --> 00:02:02,587 Speaker 4: both Sam Kin and TJ Peranard just might miss out 33 00:02:02,627 --> 00:02:03,867 Speaker 4: and it might be time to move on. 34 00:02:04,267 --> 00:02:06,867 Speaker 3: So is that that's your view? What do you think 35 00:02:06,947 --> 00:02:09,187 Speaker 3: Razor will do? Because if he doesn't take TJ, he's 36 00:02:09,187 --> 00:02:12,707 Speaker 3: got Cameray Guard five Test matches, Cortes eight Test matches. No, 37 00:02:12,787 --> 00:02:14,667 Speaker 3: I hope in one game off the bench. Does he 38 00:02:14,747 --> 00:02:16,547 Speaker 3: leave himself a little bit light at half back? 39 00:02:17,187 --> 00:02:19,387 Speaker 4: Yeah? Totally. I don't think he leaves himself light. He 40 00:02:19,467 --> 00:02:23,147 Speaker 4: leaves himself light on experience, so you know, I think 41 00:02:23,187 --> 00:02:25,547 Speaker 4: it's a massive question if he decides to take them. 42 00:02:25,547 --> 00:02:27,947 Speaker 4: I get that as well, because what he's trying to 43 00:02:27,987 --> 00:02:30,027 Speaker 4: do is, you know that by the end of the seedon, 44 00:02:30,027 --> 00:02:33,107 Speaker 4: this is an incredibly difficult northern tour. You know, you 45 00:02:33,187 --> 00:02:36,027 Speaker 4: start with Japan, which they're not going to take some 46 00:02:36,067 --> 00:02:38,267 Speaker 4: of the more experienced guys, They're going to send them 47 00:02:38,267 --> 00:02:42,907 Speaker 4: straight to the UK. Then you've got England, Ireland, France 48 00:02:43,227 --> 00:02:47,227 Speaker 4: and Italy. So you know, I think I would understand 49 00:02:47,267 --> 00:02:49,787 Speaker 4: if he took them. But then so you know what 50 00:02:49,907 --> 00:02:52,947 Speaker 4: did you mention roy Guard five? Yeah? Right? 51 00:02:53,627 --> 00:02:53,827 Speaker 1: Yeah? 52 00:02:53,987 --> 00:02:54,947 Speaker 4: No one? 53 00:02:55,067 --> 00:02:55,867 Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah. 54 00:02:55,907 --> 00:02:57,787 Speaker 4: So when they get back from Europe, what do you 55 00:02:57,787 --> 00:02:59,627 Speaker 4: want their numbers to be? You know, do you want 56 00:02:59,627 --> 00:03:02,187 Speaker 4: them to have seven? Ten? You know, they sort of 57 00:03:02,227 --> 00:03:04,347 Speaker 4: say that to win World Cups you need to have 58 00:03:04,427 --> 00:03:06,827 Speaker 4: sort of twenty eight to thirty test match is under 59 00:03:06,867 --> 00:03:11,867 Speaker 4: your belt to understand what it's all about. So, you know, 60 00:03:12,067 --> 00:03:13,947 Speaker 4: I think it's a massive call. I think it's the 61 00:03:13,987 --> 00:03:18,227 Speaker 4: most interesting part of this selection and possibly lock you know, 62 00:03:18,267 --> 00:03:21,067 Speaker 4: what's he going to do with Locke? Uh? You know, 63 00:03:21,107 --> 00:03:24,267 Speaker 4: I think to POI was probably my player of the series. 64 00:03:24,347 --> 00:03:26,907 Speaker 4: From an improvement point of view, you know, sort of 65 00:03:26,907 --> 00:03:30,467 Speaker 4: the line outs, you know, was great around the field, 66 00:03:30,547 --> 00:03:32,947 Speaker 4: so I think that's a real positive. But then do 67 00:03:33,027 --> 00:03:35,627 Speaker 4: you take Josh Lord, do you take Sam Dowry? You know, 68 00:03:35,707 --> 00:03:37,947 Speaker 4: what do you do at lock? Where I think there's 69 00:03:37,987 --> 00:03:40,307 Speaker 4: a little light And then the loose forwards is really interesting. 70 00:03:40,387 --> 00:03:42,907 Speaker 4: I don't know what happened to Dalton. I watched Counties 71 00:03:42,987 --> 00:03:45,747 Speaker 4: last night and he got injured late sort of limped off, 72 00:03:47,147 --> 00:03:48,387 Speaker 4: you know. So what are we going to do it 73 00:03:48,507 --> 00:03:50,507 Speaker 4: loose forward? Are we going to take some of the 74 00:03:50,547 --> 00:03:54,507 Speaker 4: young guys like you know, like your sir Lackey, or 75 00:03:54,547 --> 00:03:56,867 Speaker 4: are we gonna We're going to stick with Sam Kaine? 76 00:03:56,947 --> 00:03:59,307 Speaker 4: So I think it's time, mate, I think it's time. 77 00:04:00,427 --> 00:04:03,267 Speaker 4: You know, we're two years away from a World Cup, 78 00:04:03,387 --> 00:04:05,547 Speaker 4: so that's what i'd be doing, all right. 79 00:04:05,747 --> 00:04:08,467 Speaker 3: SAME's an interesting one to me. With halfback. You've got 80 00:04:08,547 --> 00:04:10,547 Speaker 3: Roy garderut to my host theme. So you've got guys 81 00:04:10,627 --> 00:04:14,427 Speaker 3: queuing up who is the number seven beyond the year. 82 00:04:14,587 --> 00:04:17,427 Speaker 3: Let's say Kane goes in plays but he's not there 83 00:04:17,427 --> 00:04:19,547 Speaker 3: next year? Who is the All Blacks open side flanker 84 00:04:19,587 --> 00:04:21,987 Speaker 3: in twenty twenty five? And moving through the next World 85 00:04:21,987 --> 00:04:22,547 Speaker 3: Cup cycle. 86 00:04:23,427 --> 00:04:26,627 Speaker 4: I think it's Dalton. I think it's Dulton because of 87 00:04:26,987 --> 00:04:30,307 Speaker 4: our loose forward mix, you know. I think Satiti has 88 00:04:30,347 --> 00:04:33,947 Speaker 4: come on as we all know, you know, Artie is 89 00:04:33,987 --> 00:04:37,147 Speaker 4: playing well at number eight, and I think what the seven, 90 00:04:37,667 --> 00:04:40,227 Speaker 4: how we used to have our traditional seven has now changed. 91 00:04:40,707 --> 00:04:43,427 Speaker 4: Our seven is now playing like a six, like when 92 00:04:43,467 --> 00:04:49,067 Speaker 4: you think about Sam Caine, incredibly defensively, incredible work late 93 00:04:49,187 --> 00:04:52,347 Speaker 4: around the ruck, but probably not a bull carrier anymore, 94 00:04:52,387 --> 00:04:55,827 Speaker 4: you know, So they're leaving the bull carrying to Satiti 95 00:04:55,907 --> 00:05:00,187 Speaker 4: and to Ardi, which makes our seven then, like our 96 00:05:00,227 --> 00:05:03,387 Speaker 4: six used to be, so a very tight you know, 97 00:05:03,587 --> 00:05:06,947 Speaker 4: very tight individual who's doing that hard work gives us 98 00:05:06,987 --> 00:05:09,467 Speaker 4: the balance to free up other guys. So I think 99 00:05:09,547 --> 00:05:12,387 Speaker 4: Dalton is best suited if that's the role we're going 100 00:05:12,387 --> 00:05:15,267 Speaker 4: to play. And then I think from a pressure point 101 00:05:15,267 --> 00:05:17,387 Speaker 4: of view, you know, we've got some of these these 102 00:05:17,427 --> 00:05:20,267 Speaker 4: young guys coming through Lok. I your there, guys like 103 00:05:20,347 --> 00:05:23,067 Speaker 4: that that are probably more multi talented. You know, they 104 00:05:23,067 --> 00:05:26,027 Speaker 4: can play in many positions. But I think the interesting 105 00:05:26,067 --> 00:05:28,587 Speaker 4: thing about the last test mench No. One really played 106 00:05:28,627 --> 00:05:31,147 Speaker 4: out of position. You know, we had Will, We had 107 00:05:31,187 --> 00:05:34,107 Speaker 4: Will at full back, we had Botin at ten, we 108 00:05:34,187 --> 00:05:37,587 Speaker 4: had you know, Antonina Brand at twelve, Rico at thirteen. 109 00:05:37,587 --> 00:05:41,147 Speaker 4: Everyone was playing in their specialist position, which I think 110 00:05:41,187 --> 00:05:41,827 Speaker 4: is a good thing. 111 00:05:42,107 --> 00:05:43,867 Speaker 3: What's happened to Mark Talaya this year? 112 00:05:45,427 --> 00:05:48,507 Speaker 4: I just think he's tired. I just think he's I 113 00:05:48,587 --> 00:05:50,667 Speaker 4: was thinking about that the other day. I wonder whether 114 00:05:51,547 --> 00:05:53,907 Speaker 4: you know, they need to have a look at it 115 00:05:54,027 --> 00:05:57,347 Speaker 4: is fitness program. I just think he looked like he's 116 00:05:57,547 --> 00:05:59,547 Speaker 4: a little bit tired and lost a little bit of 117 00:05:59,547 --> 00:06:02,387 Speaker 4: that zing. And sometimes that can be training, sometimes that 118 00:06:02,427 --> 00:06:05,067 Speaker 4: can be just tiredness. So you know, I think the 119 00:06:05,587 --> 00:06:07,747 Speaker 4: outside back is another real good one. You know, you 120 00:06:07,867 --> 00:06:09,827 Speaker 4: said Mark come off a little bit of form and 121 00:06:09,827 --> 00:06:13,347 Speaker 4: then Caleb come into form. So I think that's another 122 00:06:13,467 --> 00:06:16,227 Speaker 4: real interesting position out wide. 123 00:06:16,547 --> 00:06:18,707 Speaker 3: So Damien McKenzie goes, Boden Barrett goes. I want to 124 00:06:18,707 --> 00:06:20,227 Speaker 3: get to who starts at ten in a moment, but 125 00:06:20,347 --> 00:06:22,787 Speaker 3: who goes out of Stephen Petefetta and Harry Plumber. 126 00:06:23,907 --> 00:06:28,907 Speaker 4: I think Stephen Pedofetta will probably go. I mean, Plumber 127 00:06:29,307 --> 00:06:32,987 Speaker 4: plays twelve whereas Parafets are fifteen ten. But I think Stephen, 128 00:06:34,587 --> 00:06:37,787 Speaker 4: you know, is probably their preferred option in that ten 129 00:06:37,907 --> 00:06:40,827 Speaker 4: fifteen cover and so I think he'll go. 130 00:06:41,227 --> 00:06:43,107 Speaker 3: Who do you think we'll start at first five against 131 00:06:43,147 --> 00:06:44,347 Speaker 3: England in four weeks time. 132 00:06:45,787 --> 00:06:48,107 Speaker 4: I think it depends on what style of rugby you 133 00:06:48,147 --> 00:06:51,627 Speaker 4: want to play. I think that Damien's done an amazing job. 134 00:06:51,707 --> 00:06:55,067 Speaker 4: I think Damien's been really, really good. Does he need 135 00:06:55,067 --> 00:06:59,187 Speaker 4: to learn to control the last twenty Probably yes, you know, 136 00:06:59,387 --> 00:07:02,587 Speaker 4: and he'll learn that. But I also loved him coming 137 00:07:02,587 --> 00:07:04,867 Speaker 4: off the bench. You know. I've always said that he 138 00:07:04,947 --> 00:07:07,387 Speaker 4: probably won't like this, but I think he's you know, 139 00:07:07,427 --> 00:07:09,267 Speaker 4: we've missed him coming off the bench, and he did 140 00:07:09,307 --> 00:07:11,907 Speaker 4: the same last week. So I think it'll be about 141 00:07:11,907 --> 00:07:14,907 Speaker 4: a style of play that they want, and I think 142 00:07:14,907 --> 00:07:17,747 Speaker 4: they'll be able to use that as an option, you know, 143 00:07:17,787 --> 00:07:22,027 Speaker 4: against England. What sort of ten do you want versus Ireland? 144 00:07:22,227 --> 00:07:22,467 Speaker 4: You know? 145 00:07:23,427 --> 00:07:25,547 Speaker 3: And just to finish Jake, let's assume the All Blacks 146 00:07:26,067 --> 00:07:29,907 Speaker 3: or should beat Japan and Italy. What's an acceptable win 147 00:07:30,067 --> 00:07:32,827 Speaker 3: loss ratio? And the other three England, Island, France and 148 00:07:32,867 --> 00:07:33,947 Speaker 3: consecutive weekends. 149 00:07:35,387 --> 00:07:38,387 Speaker 4: Oh look, I think I think for me, it's it's 150 00:07:38,427 --> 00:07:41,187 Speaker 4: coming down to the wire. Something that I don't think 151 00:07:41,227 --> 00:07:44,547 Speaker 4: Super Rugby is setting ourselves up for anymore. I think 152 00:07:44,587 --> 00:07:47,587 Speaker 4: we've got to go down to the wire and beat 153 00:07:47,667 --> 00:07:52,467 Speaker 4: these sides, you know, so for me getting down winning 154 00:07:52,467 --> 00:07:54,787 Speaker 4: a game by two or three points would be will 155 00:07:54,827 --> 00:07:58,267 Speaker 4: be ideal. I think if we can beat Ireland that's 156 00:07:58,267 --> 00:08:01,507 Speaker 4: going to be pretty heated, and one of England or France, 157 00:08:01,587 --> 00:08:03,507 Speaker 4: and I think France is going to be incredibly difficult 158 00:08:03,547 --> 00:08:07,187 Speaker 4: at home. So if we can come away one and 159 00:08:07,187 --> 00:08:10,427 Speaker 4: when the rest, I think that'll be outstanding. But if 160 00:08:10,467 --> 00:08:13,747 Speaker 4: we lose two, then down to the wire and it's 161 00:08:13,787 --> 00:08:15,947 Speaker 4: maybe a kick, so we know that we're there and 162 00:08:16,027 --> 00:08:19,067 Speaker 4: competing in this young sider is learning, you know, that 163 00:08:19,227 --> 00:08:21,187 Speaker 4: pressure game in the last fifteen minutes. 164 00:08:21,547 --> 00:08:24,027 Speaker 3: All right, JK, thanks for your thoughts this afternoon. Appreciate 165 00:08:24,067 --> 00:08:26,307 Speaker 3: it very much. Indeed, Sir John Kerwin there, former all 166 00:08:26,347 --> 00:08:28,947 Speaker 3: black member of the panel on the breakdown on Sky. 167 00:08:29,347 --> 00:08:31,907 Speaker 3: No doubt they'll have more to say on that tonight. 168 00:08:32,707 --> 00:08:35,867 Speaker 1: For more from Weekend Sport with Jason Paine, listen live 169 00:08:36,027 --> 00:08:39,427 Speaker 1: to News Talk Z'B weekends from midday or follow the 170 00:08:39,427 --> 00:08:40,947 Speaker 1: podcast on iHeartRadio.