1 00:00:00,040 --> 00:00:02,360 Speaker 1: Building industry associations. You're gonna have to talk about them 2 00:00:02,400 --> 00:00:05,000 Speaker 1: because they may be the ones carrying the liability for 3 00:00:05,040 --> 00:00:07,720 Speaker 1: their registered builders. Soon the government is pushing on with 4 00:00:07,760 --> 00:00:09,840 Speaker 1: those plans that we've been discussing to change who is 5 00:00:09,920 --> 00:00:12,760 Speaker 1: liable for defective building work. It's become clear that insurance 6 00:00:12,800 --> 00:00:16,120 Speaker 1: for builders might not be widely available, so maybe master 7 00:00:16,160 --> 00:00:19,160 Speaker 1: builders and certified builders may end up being the ones 8 00:00:19,160 --> 00:00:21,960 Speaker 1: carrying the can instead. Jenatib Trany as The Herald's Wellington 9 00:00:22,000 --> 00:00:23,279 Speaker 1: Business editor and with us, Hey. 10 00:00:23,239 --> 00:00:24,680 Speaker 2: Your name hi Heather. 11 00:00:24,840 --> 00:00:26,520 Speaker 1: So is this an idea or is this what's going 12 00:00:26,600 --> 00:00:26,960 Speaker 1: to happen. 13 00:00:28,000 --> 00:00:30,600 Speaker 2: Well, so, here's the thing. Currently, if you have a 14 00:00:30,640 --> 00:00:34,960 Speaker 2: problem with your house, all the parties involved in causing 15 00:00:35,000 --> 00:00:38,640 Speaker 2: that problem are jointly liable, so you can take the 16 00:00:38,880 --> 00:00:42,600 Speaker 2: council to court for giving consent for the building and 17 00:00:42,720 --> 00:00:44,880 Speaker 2: the builder, and if the builder can't afford to pay 18 00:00:44,880 --> 00:00:47,960 Speaker 2: you out, the buckstops with the council. That's the current situation, 19 00:00:48,120 --> 00:00:51,040 Speaker 2: which means you kind of always get your way because 20 00:00:51,080 --> 00:00:54,680 Speaker 2: the council has deep pockets. Under what the Government's proposed, 21 00:00:55,000 --> 00:01:01,240 Speaker 2: the liability is split between everyone who's cause the problem, 22 00:01:01,480 --> 00:01:05,520 Speaker 2: So that could mean that your builder is liable for 23 00:01:05,560 --> 00:01:08,679 Speaker 2: the problem, and the council only plays a small part 24 00:01:09,480 --> 00:01:12,120 Speaker 2: or doesn't have to pay a part at all. But 25 00:01:12,319 --> 00:01:15,240 Speaker 2: the thing that I'm really worried about if you now 26 00:01:15,319 --> 00:01:18,160 Speaker 2: are pursuing your builder, and so is your neighbor because 27 00:01:18,160 --> 00:01:20,039 Speaker 2: they have the same problem, and so is the other 28 00:01:20,080 --> 00:01:21,800 Speaker 2: person down the road, because they all have the same 29 00:01:21,840 --> 00:01:26,320 Speaker 2: problem with the same I don't know, problematic piece of 30 00:01:26,360 --> 00:01:30,160 Speaker 2: equipment or something in the house, then that builders pockets 31 00:01:30,160 --> 00:01:34,120 Speaker 2: aren't necessarily deep enough. So then what happens is if 32 00:01:34,160 --> 00:01:37,440 Speaker 2: that builder doesn't have proper insurance. You might have some 33 00:01:37,520 --> 00:01:42,280 Speaker 2: sort of building guarantee for your house for the problem. 34 00:01:43,000 --> 00:01:47,440 Speaker 2: But the people who pay out those guarantees they're not registered, 35 00:01:47,800 --> 00:01:51,560 Speaker 2: licensed insurers. So how do we know that those master 36 00:01:51,640 --> 00:01:55,200 Speaker 2: builder guarantees, certified builder guarantees, How do we know that 37 00:01:55,280 --> 00:01:57,960 Speaker 2: they have enough money in the pot to pay out me, 38 00:01:58,160 --> 00:02:01,120 Speaker 2: my neighbor, everyone else with the same problem, like was 39 00:02:01,160 --> 00:02:05,800 Speaker 2: the case during the leaky home issue in the nineties. 40 00:02:06,360 --> 00:02:08,840 Speaker 2: So this is the issue. This is the question I have. 41 00:02:09,520 --> 00:02:12,640 Speaker 2: And the government can't answer that question because you know, 42 00:02:14,360 --> 00:02:18,200 Speaker 2: they're changing the regime. But the master builders and the 43 00:02:18,240 --> 00:02:21,600 Speaker 2: certified builders, they aren't regulated. So the question I have 44 00:02:21,840 --> 00:02:25,440 Speaker 2: is should they be regulated? Should they be required to 45 00:02:25,480 --> 00:02:29,359 Speaker 2: meet solvency standards like normal insurance companies have to meet. 46 00:02:30,000 --> 00:02:33,000 Speaker 1: Would they not? Why aren't they required to simply take 47 00:02:33,040 --> 00:02:35,639 Speaker 1: out insurance in the way that we would have expected 48 00:02:35,720 --> 00:02:36,960 Speaker 1: a builder to have to. 49 00:02:38,840 --> 00:02:41,560 Speaker 2: Yeah, look, that's a good question. So I think currently 50 00:02:41,600 --> 00:02:44,440 Speaker 2: the government has decided at once to change this regime, 51 00:02:44,760 --> 00:02:47,639 Speaker 2: but it's trying to figure out whether to make some 52 00:02:47,680 --> 00:02:52,080 Speaker 2: of these things mandatory. So trying to figure out whether 53 00:02:52,160 --> 00:02:54,280 Speaker 2: it says to you, as the homeowner, if you want 54 00:02:54,320 --> 00:02:56,480 Speaker 2: to get your house built, you have to make sure 55 00:02:56,480 --> 00:02:59,680 Speaker 2: you have some sort of a warranty. The question then, 56 00:02:59,720 --> 00:03:03,279 Speaker 2: which I'm exploring, is well, if that warranty is mandatory, 57 00:03:03,560 --> 00:03:07,560 Speaker 2: should the provider of that guarantee a warranty, should it 58 00:03:07,639 --> 00:03:11,679 Speaker 2: be required to have, you know, meet certain solvency standards? 59 00:03:11,880 --> 00:03:13,640 Speaker 1: Yes, you know. 60 00:03:13,800 --> 00:03:16,480 Speaker 2: And so talking to Master Builders certified builders, there are 61 00:03:16,520 --> 00:03:20,480 Speaker 2: mixed views. So the CEO of Master Builders he's quite 62 00:03:20,520 --> 00:03:24,960 Speaker 2: open to being regulated, you know. He and Katshama, he says, well, 63 00:03:26,720 --> 00:03:29,680 Speaker 2: they already work with actuaries to make sure they have 64 00:03:29,800 --> 00:03:33,359 Speaker 2: enough money in the pot. Basically. Certified builders, on the 65 00:03:33,400 --> 00:03:36,280 Speaker 2: other hand, Malcolm Fleming, the CEO, took to him and 66 00:03:36,360 --> 00:03:38,920 Speaker 2: he said, you know that the main thing is to 67 00:03:38,920 --> 00:03:41,440 Speaker 2: make sure that the building standards are high enough, because 68 00:03:41,440 --> 00:03:43,480 Speaker 2: that's the real issue. Make sure the building standards are 69 00:03:43,520 --> 00:03:45,360 Speaker 2: high enough so there's not a problem to begin with. 70 00:03:45,480 --> 00:03:47,600 Speaker 1: Oh well, I mean that's just that's just dreaming, isn't it. 71 00:03:47,600 --> 00:03:48,800 Speaker 1: There's always going to be a cowboy. 72 00:03:50,200 --> 00:03:53,200 Speaker 2: Well, I mean I think so. And he also said 73 00:03:53,240 --> 00:03:56,320 Speaker 2: that actually, if there was to be a widespread problem, 74 00:03:56,360 --> 00:03:59,120 Speaker 2: because that's when the solvency issue really becomes a problem, 75 00:03:59,280 --> 00:04:01,280 Speaker 2: if there was to be a widespread problem, it would 76 00:04:01,320 --> 00:04:03,800 Speaker 2: probably be with the building material. And if it is 77 00:04:03,840 --> 00:04:06,040 Speaker 2: with the building material, then I guess you can sue 78 00:04:06,080 --> 00:04:10,000 Speaker 2: the manufacturer of the material, so you're not necessarily tapping 79 00:04:10,040 --> 00:04:14,960 Speaker 2: into the pot of money run by certified builders. But 80 00:04:15,400 --> 00:04:17,280 Speaker 2: I think, I mean stepping out here, I'm sort of 81 00:04:17,279 --> 00:04:20,640 Speaker 2: going right into the weeds here, but stepping back, I 82 00:04:20,640 --> 00:04:25,040 Speaker 2: think if the government is changing the liability regime for housing, 83 00:04:25,680 --> 00:04:28,120 Speaker 2: which is where all of our money is tied up, 84 00:04:28,600 --> 00:04:31,320 Speaker 2: then we need to make sure the stuff is rock 85 00:04:31,400 --> 00:04:33,960 Speaker 2: solid so that if we have a problem, we need 86 00:04:33,960 --> 00:04:37,160 Speaker 2: to make sure whoever we're chasing actually has money to 87 00:04:37,640 --> 00:04:42,520 Speaker 2: pay it that. Yeah exactly, yeah, and yeah. 88 00:04:41,920 --> 00:04:44,640 Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean it is alarming to me, I think probably, 89 00:04:44,640 --> 00:04:46,080 Speaker 1: and by the sounds of things, to you as well. 90 00:04:46,080 --> 00:04:48,120 Speaker 1: It is alarming to me that we're taking that away 91 00:04:48,279 --> 00:04:53,400 Speaker 1: without actually replacing it with something of equal certainty. Jane, 92 00:04:53,400 --> 00:04:55,200 Speaker 1: thank you. I appreciate you talking us through and you're 93 00:04:55,200 --> 00:04:57,120 Speaker 1: doing all the work on it. Janet tib Charani, the 94 00:04:57,120 --> 00:04:59,160 Speaker 1: Herald's Wellington business owner. To keep an eye on this. 95 00:04:59,160 --> 00:05:01,160 Speaker 1: This is Chris Pink is an Laura. It's Chris Pink 96 00:05:01,240 --> 00:05:03,400 Speaker 1: during this yet keep an eye on it. For more 97 00:05:03,480 --> 00:05:06,799 Speaker 1: from Hither Duplessy Allen Drive. 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