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Speaker 1: You're listening to a podcast from News Talk said B.

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Speaker 1: Follow this and our wide range of podcasts now on iHeartRadio.

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Speaker 2: Hello you, great New Zealander, and welcome to Matt and

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Speaker 2: Tyler Full Show Podcast number two to nine for the

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Speaker 2: twenty fourth of October. It's a Friday. It was a

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Speaker 2: funny old show today. Enjoyed it.

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Speaker 3: It was light.

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Speaker 2: We've had some quite intense shows lately, and that you've

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Speaker 2: got to describe that one is light.

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Speaker 4: Yeah.

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Speaker 5: Great chat about Grannie Flats in some wedding photography. Ah,

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Speaker 5: I you shared a quite a story about some bad

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Speaker 5: behavior to winning.

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Speaker 2: There's also some tortoise six. So I enjoyed the pod.

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Speaker 5: Download, subscribe and give us a review.

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Speaker 3: And give them a taste to Key you go see Basilla,

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Speaker 3: you go all right?

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Speaker 1: I love you the big stories, the leak issues, the

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Speaker 1: big trends and everything in between. Matt Heath and Tyler

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Speaker 1: Adams Afternoons News Talk sed B.

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Speaker 5: Very good afternoon to You're welcome into Wednesday show. Really

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Speaker 5: really good to have your company as always, thanks for

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Speaker 5: joining us.

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Speaker 3: Get a mets get a Tyler gad eveyone Now.

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Speaker 2: Yesterday when I was doing the radio show live, I

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Speaker 2: was also had one eye on the World series because

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Speaker 2: I'm a huge Dodgers fan, yep, and that led to

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Speaker 2: a poor performance of me from me on here.

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Speaker 5: Well, yeah, that was pretty good man for multitasking iOS.

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Speaker 5: It was. There was a lot going on in that game.

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Speaker 2: Look, I just promised the Boss that I would turn

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Speaker 2: the TV off and not watch the Dodgers at the

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Speaker 2: same time. But that involves a little bit of help

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Speaker 2: from people at home, not texting in spoilers on nine

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Speaker 2: two nine two and telling me what's going on.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, please don't do that. I know you think it's

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Speaker 5: a joke, but just don't.

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Speaker 2: Don't ticks through Otherwise I like to turn the TV

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Speaker 2: on and just watch that instead.

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Speaker 5: And it's all going to go downhill.

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Speaker 2: Hey, on another issue, you know, I'm always trying to

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Speaker 2: be a bitter person, a better person than yesterday.

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Speaker 3: Yesterday I was watching the Dodgers.

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Speaker 2: Well, I was trying to do my show, and in

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Speaker 2: overnight I thought, no, I've got to be a bit

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Speaker 2: of person, you know, and be one hundred percent focused

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Speaker 2: on the show. I'm nice watching the Dodgers, and I'm

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Speaker 2: always across my life and as most of us are

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Speaker 2: trying to be better than we were yesterday. And I

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Speaker 2: did something today that I'm not proud of, and I

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Speaker 2: want to try and.

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Speaker 3: Be better person.

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Speaker 5: Okay, So I pulled up.

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Speaker 2: I was taking my car into I had an accident recently,

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Speaker 2: so I was taking it to the Panel Beaters, right,

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Speaker 2: And so I pulled up and I was talking on

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Speaker 2: the phone, and then some guy started walking around my

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Speaker 2: car filming me. I was pulled up on the on

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Speaker 2: the other side of the road from the Panel Beaters

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Speaker 2: and this guy was filming my car.

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Speaker 5: Odd behavior from him.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I was just looking slide and he's like filming

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Speaker 2: me through the window of filming the car. And so

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Speaker 2: I got out of the car and I said, mate,

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Speaker 2: why are you filming me?

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Speaker 5: As you would?

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Speaker 2: And quite an aggressive tone I chose. And then the

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Speaker 2: guy goes, I assume you're here at this Panel Beater.

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Speaker 2: So I'm just assissing the car for you. I just

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Speaker 2: saw you pulled up. I ran the nice life it's played.

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Speaker 2: I thought, that guy across the road looks like he

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Speaker 2: needs me to assist. So this incredibly efficient guy from

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Speaker 2: the company came out from Panel and Pain and started

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Speaker 2: assisting the car, and I was in and out in

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Speaker 2: a second.

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Speaker 5: Oh that poor fella, he was just doing his job.

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Speaker 3: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: So the lesson I've learned from that is don't immediately

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Speaker 2: jump to conclusions and come in with an angry, rude voice.

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Speaker 3: Just go, hey, hey, matey, what's going on?

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Speaker 5: What's going on with that video camera?

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Speaker 2: How are you feeling having to apologize profusely to the man?

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Speaker 3: And he was a fantastic human being. So there you go.

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Speaker 2: I'm going to be better from now on. I'm to learn

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Speaker 2: to listen to in the future. Just come in softly,

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Speaker 2: nicely until you know all the details. Don't come in

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Speaker 2: with the aggressive accusing someone of being paparazzi when they're

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Speaker 2: just trying to assist your car.

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Speaker 5: What a great start to the day. That is life

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Speaker 5: advice for anyone out there someone's filming your car, just

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Speaker 5: just give them the benefit.

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Speaker 3: Of the doubt. This person says spoiler alert, baseball suck?

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Speaker 5: Ah dare you so? Don't start off the ship. Matt's

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Speaker 5: trying to be a better person and you start off

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Speaker 5: with that sort of negativity. Think come on for.

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Speaker 2: Your feedback, Texter. I don't agree that baseball sucks. I

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Speaker 2: love it, but I appreciate that you feel that way,

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Speaker 2: and I hope you have a great day anyway.

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Speaker 5: Beautiful. Yeah, see look at your game mates. Right on

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Speaker 5: to today's show after three point thirty. Gareth abdenor Employment Law,

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Speaker 5: workplace and Information Expert. He is back with us. He's brilliant.

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Speaker 5: He only comes around once a month and this is

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Speaker 5: your opportunity to get free advice. If you go to

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Speaker 5: a lawyer for this sort of advice, it costs your thousands,

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Speaker 5: but for today only eight one hundred and eighty ten eighty.

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Speaker 5: Any issue you've got at work, if you're the boss

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Speaker 5: and you've got some problems with your employee, he's the

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Speaker 5: man to chat to.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and get in early nine two nine two, send

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Speaker 2: them in. He'll be on the on the phone at

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Speaker 2: three thirty. But jump the queue if you've got an

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Speaker 2: employment problem, and look if it's a real good one,

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Speaker 2: then we'll bring you back and get you on absolutely.

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Speaker 2: That's after three thirty. After three.

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Speaker 5: What small changes have you made in your life that

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Speaker 5: made a instant movement in your general wellbeing? This was

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Speaker 5: something that you decided to do. Was it this morning

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Speaker 5: or yesterday morning?

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Speaker 2: Oh yeah, just quickly a little joys in your life

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Speaker 2: rearranging all the apps on your phone into tidy folders

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Speaker 2: and so you only have two screens. Yeap, oh my god.

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Speaker 2: Brings so much joy to your life. It's just cleaning up,

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Speaker 2: you know. It's like cleaning up the kitchen, cleaning up

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Speaker 2: the house, cleaning up your own cleaning up your desk.

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Speaker 2: It makes your life better. But little joys. I just

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Speaker 2: want to talk about that. One hundred and eighty ten eighty.

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Speaker 2: What a little simple things in your life that can

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Speaker 2: bring you satisfaction.

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Speaker 5: That's going to be good. After three o'clock. After two o'clock,

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Speaker 5: rocket Lab is celebrating can you believe twenty years in operation?

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Speaker 5: This week the company has become the fastest in history

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Speaker 5: to launch fifty rockets into space. It's now valued at

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Speaker 5: over twenty billion dollars. So rocket Lab CEO and found

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Speaker 5: a Peterbeck. He was on with Mike Hoskin this morning

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Speaker 5: and Mike cast on this question.

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Speaker 6: True that Kiwis are different in terms of work ethic,

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Speaker 6: their view of the world that you can spot at

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Speaker 6: Keywing and that's why a lot of internationals like Kewi's.

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Speaker 7: Absolutely, but for the positive and for the negative. You know,

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Speaker 7: the one thing that I'm always you know, banging on

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Speaker 7: with Kiwis is that we just don't think big enough.

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Speaker 7: Like I can go to America and stand up in

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Speaker 7: a room and saying and I build a bigger space

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Speaker 7: company in the world and everybody cheers. I do the

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Speaker 7: same thing in the room in New Zealand and everybody

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Speaker 7: sort of goes, oh, I don't know about that, you

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Speaker 7: know what I mean. So that's one of the biggest

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Speaker 7: issues that we have in New Zealand, just like say

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Speaker 7: bigger and be more ambitious and get after it.

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Speaker 5: And they've got a lot of support that comment on

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Speaker 5: the text machine as I understand it, but it is

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Speaker 5: I mean, it can be an impression in New Zealand

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Speaker 5: right this culture of no So is that really true?

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Speaker 5: And how do we push forward on that? And if

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Speaker 5: you have been a Kiwi working overseas, what is the

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Speaker 5: difference in Keiwi attitude?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, because I think there is Okay, so I'm

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Speaker 2: not sure if it was always like this, but I

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Speaker 2: think there is definitely people that just line up to

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Speaker 2: assume something's not going to work. And you know, there's

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Speaker 2: tall Poppy syndrome in there as well, but there's also

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Speaker 2: incredibly risk averse people floating around. Yeah, so before you

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Speaker 2: even get the eye out, everyone's telling you why it

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Speaker 2: can't work. A lot of that before you even spend

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Speaker 2: some time just living with the idea and dreaming of

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Speaker 2: it and maybe fantasizing about it. There's already someone talking

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Speaker 2: about traffic management.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, exactly. That is after two o'clock. But right now,

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Speaker 5: let's get into this new report from the New Zealand Initiative.

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Speaker 5: It's titled MMP After thirty Years. So senior fellow Nick Clark,

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Speaker 5: he was on with Ryan Bridge this morning and here

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Speaker 5: he breaks down a few of these suggestions that they've

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Speaker 5: had to try and make things a bit better. Are

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Speaker 5: you trolling us.

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Speaker 8: Nick, No, No, it's actually quite serious. The four year

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Speaker 8: term is something which has been debated and isn't under

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Speaker 8: consideration right now. It's not a radical.

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Speaker 9: There at all.

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Speaker 2: Find that's fine, But what can one hundred and seventy

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Speaker 2: MPs do that one hundred and twenty can't.

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Speaker 8: Yeah, we have a very small parliament by the standards.

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Speaker 8: Most countries are certain European countries around about our size,

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Speaker 8: and that are very successful countries. The Scandinavians Island, they

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Speaker 8: all have between around one hundred and seventy and two

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Speaker 8: hundred MPs, or around the same side you see on

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Speaker 8: the intense population. Now, the reason why to answer your

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Speaker 8: question is why do we need more here in New Zealand.

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Speaker 8: I think it's probably fair to say that we have

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Speaker 8: difficulty with select committees in terms of the ability for

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Speaker 8: them to properly scrutinize legislation. And that's partly because the

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Speaker 8: MPs that we do have available are so thinly stretched.

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Speaker 8: We have MPs that end up on city on multiple committees.

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Speaker 8: They can't get a good handle on what's going on

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Speaker 8: as much as they perhaps should. They get inundated with submissions.

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Speaker 8: It's a good idea, I think, to just spread the

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Speaker 8: load a bit more by having some more MPs. Also,

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Speaker 8: the electrics that we have are very large, both geographically

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Speaker 8: and in population terms, and they're becoming increasingly difficult for

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Speaker 8: MP to service the rather complex and intense needs.

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Speaker 3: These extrememps will be electric MPs, not this ones.

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Speaker 9: Some of them will be yep, yep, yep. We'd be

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Speaker 9: looking at the fifty fifty.

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Speaker 10: Look.

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Speaker 2: I don't think anyone's going to go for this, nick,

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Speaker 2: but I do like your idea of getting cabinet down

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Speaker 2: from fifteen twenty to fifteen ministers.

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Speaker 3: We also have something like eighty portfolios.

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Speaker 5: It's like the Grand Central Station trying to wrangle these

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Speaker 5: portfolio ministers.

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Speaker 3: It's outrageous.

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Speaker 8: Yes, absolutely, And you know we put out a report

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Speaker 8: a few weeks ago, a couple months ago maybe that

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Speaker 8: talked about this in more detail. But we have a bloated,

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Speaker 8: fragmented executor. It's really hard to tell who's responsful for what.

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Speaker 8: We need to get that executive down and size that.

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Speaker 11: They also dominate, so a lot in there.

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Speaker 5: And some of those bolder suggestions were the extra fifty

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Speaker 5: MPs that will make a few people bulk yep.

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Speaker 2: Also a lowering the threshold from three point from five

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Speaker 2: percent to three point five percent, so it's easier for

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Speaker 2: parties to you know, get a seat in parliament.

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Speaker 3: Personally, I think that's that's one I pushed back about.

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Speaker 2: I think up at ten percent, if you can't convince

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Speaker 2: one in ten people to support you, then well what

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Speaker 2: are you.

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Speaker 5: That would solve a lot of problems with them. I'm

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Speaker 5: not joking, you know, because as you say, there's three

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Speaker 5: point five percent. Any old weirdo, any.

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Speaker 3: Nutt can get three point five percent.

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Speaker 2: Exactly, just whatever crazy standing at the back looking stupid

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Speaker 2: party can could get three point five percent.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, spot on. But let's have a chat about MMP

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Speaker 5: eighty ten eighty and I want.

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Speaker 2: To talk about it even wider because is m MP

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Speaker 2: any good at all? You know, we was sold it?

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Speaker 2: When was it ninety six? It came in?

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Speaker 5: Yep?

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Speaker 3: Has it? Has it been more?

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Speaker 2: You know, have people been served well by MMP? Do

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Speaker 2: we feel like that where the population has been heard?

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Speaker 2: You know, personally, I think it's less democratic than First

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Speaker 2: Past the Post was. I say, get rid of the

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Speaker 2: whole thing. Just go back to you know, you have

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Speaker 2: an MP for their electorate and they go to Wellington

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Speaker 2: and they you know, are affiliated with their party, but

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Speaker 2: they're also directly fighting for their constituents in their area

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Speaker 2: and the specific needs they have, which are very very

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Speaker 2: different if you compare what someone in Rodney might need

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Speaker 2: compared to someone down in Bluff.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, get rid of list MP's altogether. I think most

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Speaker 5: of us can see list MP's. They just make up

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Speaker 5: the numbers. They don't care about any particular area of

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Speaker 5: New Zealand really large, just there to try and get

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Speaker 5: to one hundred and twenty MPs. Yeah, what do they do?

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Speaker 2: You get some crazy people in there that they're only

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Speaker 2: in there because the party has decided that they should

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Speaker 2: be there. Yeah, you know, no one knows them and

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Speaker 2: no one cares about them.

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Speaker 5: Yeah. Oh, one hundred and eighty ten eighty is the

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Speaker 5: number to car. Do you agree with match at MmpB

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Speaker 5: had abolished all together and you go back to first

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Speaker 5: pass of the post. I reckon you'll get a lot

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Speaker 5: of support for that idea. But even if you think

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Speaker 5: that MMP has still got some benefit, of course we

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Speaker 5: want to hear from you. But if there's any changes,

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Speaker 5: what I reckon nine two ninety two is that text

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Speaker 5: number back in the moment is twelve past one.

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Speaker 1: The big stories, the big issues, the big trends and

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Speaker 1: everything in between.

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Speaker 11: Matt Heath and Tyler Adams afternoons excus talks.

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Speaker 5: That'd be it is twenty pass one. So thirty years on,

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Speaker 5: almost thirty years on. How do you feel about MMPs?

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Speaker 5: It's still working for you. Oh one hundred and eighty

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Speaker 5: ten eighty is that number to call?

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Speaker 3: Bruce? How are you this afternoon? Welcome to the show.

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Speaker 3: Your thoughts on MMP.

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Speaker 12: Gentlemen, What a pleasure to talk to you. Although I'm

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Speaker 12: surprised you have time to speak on the radio. I

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Speaker 12: thought you would be polishing your jack boots and practicing

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Speaker 12: your goose stepping.

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Speaker 5: Are yeah, okay, right, okay, fair enough. I did a

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Speaker 5: lot of that at the weekend.

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Speaker 11: Mate.

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Speaker 12: No, look, I'm I'm taking out of the proverbial a

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Speaker 12: little bit. But you were saying about, well, one of

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Speaker 12: the things that you know, I understand you've got to

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Speaker 12: steer up a little bit of controversy to get things

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Speaker 12: the topic going, and you really and oh okay, and

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Speaker 12: but the whole thing about like, I don't let three

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Speaker 12: and a half percent threshold happen because you get all

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Speaker 12: the crazies and oh, I think the benefit of MMP

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Speaker 12: is the more wide spread representation you occasionally, the minorities

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Speaker 12: and the smaller groups that maybe hold a slightly less

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Speaker 12: mainstream perspective on things have to be listened to. And

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Speaker 12: I don't imagine for a second that that is a

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Speaker 12: bad thing.

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Speaker 2: Well otherwise, just to push back on that a little bit, Bruce,

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Speaker 2: don't you think that we listen to them almost exclusively

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Speaker 2: now because they you know, people that don't actually need

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Speaker 2: to go through with a lot of what they say

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Speaker 2: and maybe have more extreme opinions make better headlines. So

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Speaker 2: under MMP we spend a lot of time listening to

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Speaker 2: minority views or extreme views.

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Speaker 12: You're talking about the press as opposed to the political process.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, exactly.

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Speaker 12: The political process is still run by white Europeans because

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Speaker 12: the biggest demographic in the country. The problem was first

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Speaker 12: past the post. Is that was all that was.

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Speaker 2: The The deputy prime Minister and the last deputee prime

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Speaker 2: Minister weren't white Europeans.

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Speaker 13: Were it?

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Speaker 12: Well, it was that under EMMP. Gosh, gosh, have you

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Speaker 12: shot yourself in the foot there?

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Speaker 2: Well, well, I'm just said, we're just having a discussion,

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Speaker 2: so I don't know, have I just but you said

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Speaker 2: it was pronominantly at the moment, it's predominantly run the

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Speaker 2: Sorry sorry I missed that, but sorry, yeah, you continue

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Speaker 2: the post.

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Speaker 12: It's only ever going to be a white, middle class

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Speaker 12: European perspective that is running things.

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Speaker 13: With m MP.

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Speaker 12: At least some of the smaller demographics of the population

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Speaker 12: occasionally have a chance to get something, you know, to

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Speaker 12: sit at the table. Not as I don't agree that

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Speaker 12: the minorities who yelled the loudest get all the attention.

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Speaker 12: I think in the media maybe they do. But in

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Speaker 12: the political process, and don't think that happens.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, isn't the main way that the population experienced the

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Speaker 2: political process in the media and on social media?

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Speaker 12: Maybe the I understand what you're saying there, but I

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Speaker 12: think that in the corridors of power that doesn't really

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Speaker 12: have attraction. It doesn't. I think that And anyway, you know,

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Speaker 12: to get a balance, sometimes this pendulum swings a little

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Speaker 12: far the other way. Doesn't mean we won't get to

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Speaker 12: a far more care and representative process by that happening.

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Speaker 12: The thing is, it's when people cannot have a voice,

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Speaker 12: that's when eventually and somebody famous who knew what they

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Speaker 12: were talking about and I can't remember their name. One

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Speaker 12: Wherever there's an imbalance of power, abuse will eventually happen.

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Speaker 12: And I think that there is some truth in that.

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Speaker 12: And where you have a where it's the majority demographic

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Speaker 12: is always represented in government as under first part of

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Speaker 12: the post, I think there is a stagnation of growth

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Speaker 12: and development and inclusivity. You know, we lack it lacks

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Speaker 12: the richness of all the diverse groups, either cultural or

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Speaker 12: you know, politically political viewpoints where they are continually shut

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Speaker 12: out under first part of the phase. I think the

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Speaker 12: benefit of m MP, and I know it's not a

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Speaker 12: very popular system globally, there's not very many at all

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Speaker 12: that do it, but I think it's been a good

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Speaker 12: thing from New Zealand because we've been able to maybe

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Speaker 12: shift away from the middle class white.

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Speaker 2: But potentially but you say that everyone gets heard, but

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Speaker 2: what really happens an m MP is that you have

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Speaker 2: the opinion of the leader and the leadership of the

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Speaker 2: party and that's it. With first past the posts, then

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Speaker 2: people's electorates, and that the MP's had to deal directly

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Speaker 2: with their electorate and they were voted for in by

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Speaker 2: their electorate and they would you know, you go to

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Speaker 2: Wellington with what was important to where you are from,

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Speaker 2: and that is very very different even within a party.

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Speaker 2: The needs of different parts of the country are very

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Speaker 2: very different. So now wouldn't you say, Bruce, that less

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Speaker 2: there's less diversity of opinion under MMP then there was

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Speaker 2: under first past the post because we just really get

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Speaker 2: the opinion of national, the opinion of Labor, the opinion

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Speaker 2: of Act, the opinion of New Zealand first, and they

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Speaker 2: just everyone in the party's in line with what the

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Speaker 2: leader says.

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Speaker 12: I think that's a very black and white take on

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Speaker 12: the actual political process. I think if you just looked

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Speaker 12: at it at face value, you might think that's what's happening.

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Speaker 12: But I do think that because I actually agree with

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Speaker 12: the whole thing about the list MPs, I think that

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Speaker 12: they are probably adding to that dynamic. I think if

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Speaker 12: we got rid of them and had more I do

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Speaker 12: think a larger representation of electorate purely electric MPs would

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Speaker 12: fix that that tendency, that problem. I'm not saying you're wrong,

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Speaker 12: but I don't think it's like massively unbalanced in that direction.

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Speaker 12: But I do think a larger number of MPs and

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Speaker 12: get rid of the list MPs would make that provincial

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Speaker 12: and local representation more clear at the national level. I

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Speaker 12: do agree with you about that.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, well, thank you for you call, Bruce, and look

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Speaker 2: we'll get back to what was it polishing our jack boots.

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Speaker 3: And goose stepping?

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Speaker 5: Yeah sounds fun? Yeah, yeah, Bruce, thanks for kicking us off.

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Speaker 5: Good discussion. O A one hundred and eighty ten eighty.

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Speaker 5: How do you feel about MMP thirty years on. It

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Speaker 5: is twenty siven past one.

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Speaker 11: The headlines and the hard questions. It's the Mic Hosking Breakfast.

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Speaker 3: Correct me if I'm wrong.

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Speaker 6: Less controversial than some of your higher school decisions and

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Speaker 6: subjects in the battle you've got going there?

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Speaker 3: Is that fair?

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Speaker 14: No, it's not controversial at all. I mean what we

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Speaker 14: have is a knowledge ritch curriculum. It's been a few

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Speaker 14: years in the making. It's carefully sequenced. It lays out

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Speaker 14: what students have to know and what they need to

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Speaker 14: be able to do, and it's consistent so that every child,

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Speaker 14: no matter where they go to school, they get access

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Speaker 14: to quality learning and it's exciting and engaging and it's

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Speaker 14: a really exciting day. Knowledge builds on knowledge builds on knowledge.

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Speaker 14: So we have to be teaching children knowledge so that

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Speaker 14: they can then work towards those higher order skills that

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Speaker 14: businesses and universities and everybody like.

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Speaker 6: Back tomorrow at six am the Mic Hosking Breakfast with

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Speaker 6: the Defender News Talk ZEDB.

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Speaker 5: News Talk ZEDB. Just quickly before we get to some

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Speaker 5: text and then the headlines. When Bruce said that it

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Speaker 5: lessens representation of you to first pass the post, but

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Speaker 5: if you look at MMP. I mean the twenty seventeen

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Speaker 5: election off and gets brought up. But it's very true

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Speaker 5: that New Zealand first, by nature of MMP, got to

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Speaker 5: dictate who was going to be in government, Labor or

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Speaker 5: National And you can't say seven percent of the vote

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Speaker 5: and I'm not even going to go at New Zealand

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Speaker 5: FIRS tape, but you can't say that's representative of the

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Speaker 5: general population and Democracy and the Green Party have never

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Speaker 5: ever been inside of cabinet. They've been ministers before outside

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Speaker 5: of cabinet. But if anyone can text through nine two

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Speaker 5: nine two a single policy that they've enacted over the

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Speaker 5: last ten years within government, please do so. Again, that's

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Speaker 5: not representation that if you'll put on the sidelines, even

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Speaker 5: if you do get ten percent because you can't make

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Speaker 5: a deal, how is that representing the minorities.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, you've got to say in twenty seventeen that was

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Speaker 2: a big decision with what was coming up very soon.

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Speaker 2: MMP is a dog. Half of our MPs are elected

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Speaker 2: by first past post, the other half are chosen by

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Speaker 2: party Hacks says the text. So we vote to determine

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Speaker 2: the MPs, but the government is formed by backroom dealings

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Speaker 2: no democracy, and that we need a system that the

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Speaker 2: government is determined by how the votes fall on the day.

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Speaker 3: That way we get what we're voting for.

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Speaker 5: Yir good text.

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Speaker 2: It was seven point two percent that the New Zealand

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Speaker 2: first got of the vote in twenty seventeen.

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Speaker 3: To be precise.

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Speaker 5: Yet note very good boys.

441
00:21:20,453 --> 00:21:24,013
Speaker 2: MMP gives too much power to smaller parties and promotes extremists,

442
00:21:24,013 --> 00:21:28,253
Speaker 2: something that it was trying to avoid bring back FPP.

443
00:21:28,853 --> 00:21:31,093
Speaker 3: But Bruce, who rang before.

444
00:21:31,053 --> 00:21:34,773
Speaker 2: Said that that's exactly what he wants, doesn't He wants the.

445
00:21:36,413 --> 00:21:37,653
Speaker 3: Little opinions to be heard.

446
00:21:37,973 --> 00:21:40,293
Speaker 5: Yeah, he was in support off of that, lowering the

447
00:21:40,293 --> 00:21:42,693
Speaker 5: threshold to three point five percent, which to me is

448
00:21:42,693 --> 00:21:43,533
Speaker 5: pretty concerning.

449
00:21:44,773 --> 00:21:45,893
Speaker 3: This Texas said lads.

450
00:21:46,013 --> 00:21:48,093
Speaker 2: MP was only voted and as it was the only

451
00:21:48,133 --> 00:21:51,413
Speaker 2: system in the ninety three referendum that had any publicity

452
00:21:51,453 --> 00:21:54,973
Speaker 2: behind it, it is certainly the most representative system. But

453
00:21:55,013 --> 00:21:57,533
Speaker 2: that is precisely the problem. From Winston playing King and

454
00:21:57,613 --> 00:22:00,573
Speaker 2: Queen maker to the rise of the influence of Loony's

455
00:22:00,653 --> 00:22:03,933
Speaker 2: and the Greens and Tipatimari. In order to appease potential

456
00:22:03,973 --> 00:22:06,253
Speaker 2: coalition partners, the larger parties have been pushed into the

457
00:22:06,293 --> 00:22:09,653
Speaker 2: middle of the political spectrum, get rid of it. That's

458
00:22:09,693 --> 00:22:13,453
Speaker 2: from Nico. So there was two referendums, wasn't there. There

459
00:22:13,453 --> 00:22:15,133
Speaker 2: was a refereement decide if there was going to be

460
00:22:15,133 --> 00:22:16,733
Speaker 2: There was a non binding referendum, then there was a

461
00:22:16,733 --> 00:22:18,733
Speaker 2: binding referendum and it came in ninety ninety six.

462
00:22:18,773 --> 00:22:21,693
Speaker 5: Dinner, Yep, correct, yep, Bang on right. Oh, one hundred

463
00:22:21,813 --> 00:22:24,053
Speaker 5: eighty ten eighty is the number to CORP. We're also

464
00:22:24,093 --> 00:22:26,573
Speaker 5: going to catch up with our political correspondent Barry Sopa

465
00:22:26,733 --> 00:22:30,333
Speaker 5: very shortly and get his views on the proposed changes

466
00:22:30,373 --> 00:22:32,893
Speaker 5: to MMP and if it's still working. That's all coming

467
00:22:32,973 --> 00:22:34,373
Speaker 5: up headlines with Raylene.

468
00:22:34,453 --> 00:22:40,533
Speaker 15: Next US talks, it'd be headlines with blue bubble taxis.

469
00:22:40,653 --> 00:22:44,053
Speaker 15: It's no trouble with the blue bubble. The Prime Minister says,

470
00:22:44,133 --> 00:22:47,573
Speaker 15: trade and rules based order will be front and center,

471
00:22:47,613 --> 00:22:51,013
Speaker 15: and discussions at APEC beginning in South Korea today. It's

472
00:22:51,053 --> 00:22:53,812
Speaker 15: attended by the leaders of China, the US and other

473
00:22:53,933 --> 00:22:57,613
Speaker 15: Asian and Pacific nations. The Reserve Bank has cut one

474
00:22:57,733 --> 00:23:01,173
Speaker 15: hundred and fifty four jobs since March, one hundred and

475
00:23:01,253 --> 00:23:03,893
Speaker 15: twenty four of them in Wellington, to a headcount of

476
00:23:03,973 --> 00:23:09,013
Speaker 15: six hundred. Israel's carried out strikes near Gaza City, reportedly

477
00:23:09,133 --> 00:23:12,493
Speaker 15: killing at least nine, claiming Hamas didn't hand over a

478
00:23:12,573 --> 00:23:18,173
Speaker 15: specified hostages remains. Harmas says Israel is fabricating pretexts to

479
00:23:18,373 --> 00:23:23,333
Speaker 15: again attack. Jamaica's government has declared the country a disaster

480
00:23:23,453 --> 00:23:26,413
Speaker 15: area as Hurricane Melissa belts out two hundred and thirty

481
00:23:26,453 --> 00:23:31,213
Speaker 15: kilometers in our gusts and pounding rain. The final chatterm

482
00:23:31,213 --> 00:23:34,813
Speaker 15: Island Councilor has been chosen by lot after two tied

483
00:23:34,933 --> 00:23:38,933
Speaker 15: at eighth, with Jenna Howard taking the place over. Aman

484
00:23:39,013 --> 00:23:43,253
Speaker 15: de Seymour Labor affiliated Ben McNulty has been selected as

485
00:23:43,333 --> 00:23:48,493
Speaker 15: Wellington's Deputy mayor, alongside Mayor Andrew Little countdown to come back.

486
00:23:48,813 --> 00:23:52,373
Speaker 15: Owner of the rut Icon Eyes its long awaited return.

487
00:23:52,653 --> 00:23:55,333
Speaker 15: You can find out more at Insinherrald Premium. Now back

488
00:23:55,373 --> 00:23:56,893
Speaker 15: to Matt Eathan Tyler Adams.

489
00:23:57,053 --> 00:24:00,532
Speaker 5: Thank you very much, Rayleen, and we have been discussing MMP.

490
00:24:00,613 --> 00:24:03,893
Speaker 5: It's almost thirty years since it was introduced in nineteen

491
00:24:03,933 --> 00:24:07,493
Speaker 5: ninety six and the New Zealand Institute has suggested a

492
00:24:07,773 --> 00:24:10,573
Speaker 5: hugels some a bit bolder than others. I've got to

493
00:24:10,613 --> 00:24:13,493
Speaker 5: say to discuss further. We are joined by senior political

494
00:24:13,493 --> 00:24:15,733
Speaker 5: correspondent Barry Soper. Good to see you, Barry.

495
00:24:15,813 --> 00:24:17,573
Speaker 16: Good afternoon, lad, it's nice to be here.

496
00:24:17,773 --> 00:24:20,733
Speaker 2: So coming up on thirty years since MMP, let's just

497
00:24:20,773 --> 00:24:23,613
Speaker 2: look back. What was the mood in New Zealand that

498
00:24:23,733 --> 00:24:25,812
Speaker 2: led to this MMP change.

499
00:24:25,853 --> 00:24:29,533
Speaker 16: Well, it was all most arrived at by a mistake

500
00:24:29,653 --> 00:24:32,573
Speaker 16: because David Longey made a comment in one of the

501
00:24:32,573 --> 00:24:36,413
Speaker 16: debates he was having with Jim Bolger that he would

502
00:24:36,413 --> 00:24:38,413
Speaker 16: like to see a change to the electoral system and

503
00:24:38,813 --> 00:24:41,973
Speaker 16: several options were put up because Bulger talked about his

504
00:24:42,013 --> 00:24:44,413
Speaker 16: word and did the right thing when he became Prime Minister,

505
00:24:45,093 --> 00:24:48,293
Speaker 16: and so several options were given him. First past the

506
00:24:48,333 --> 00:24:51,933
Speaker 16: post was out of the mix then. But you know,

507
00:24:51,933 --> 00:24:55,093
Speaker 16: we had this mixed member of proportional system. Nobody understood

508
00:24:55,093 --> 00:25:01,013
Speaker 16: it then. Unfortunately the tragics like me had to understand it.

509
00:25:01,133 --> 00:25:03,693
Speaker 16: So and it's not when you look at it, it's

510
00:25:03,693 --> 00:25:07,293
Speaker 16: actually quite an easy system to understand. So you have,

511
00:25:08,373 --> 00:25:11,693
Speaker 16: you know, the electorate MPs and list MPs and we

512
00:25:11,773 --> 00:25:13,933
Speaker 16: always thought at the time that list MPs we're going

513
00:25:13,973 --> 00:25:19,013
Speaker 16: to be a lesser strength MP than the elected MPs.

514
00:25:19,053 --> 00:25:19,973
Speaker 16: But it's not the case.

515
00:25:20,573 --> 00:25:24,773
Speaker 17: They don't differentiate at all now, right, Yeah, So you know,

516
00:25:25,613 --> 00:25:28,052
Speaker 17: there seemed to be a big wave of enthusiasm for

517
00:25:28,093 --> 00:25:31,813
Speaker 17: it and was going to solve all the problems you mentioned.

518
00:25:31,493 --> 00:25:33,773
Speaker 2: That there with the list MPs. Has it played out

519
00:25:33,813 --> 00:25:36,133
Speaker 2: as people expected? Has it played out as it was

520
00:25:36,173 --> 00:25:37,693
Speaker 2: sold in nineteen ninety five?

521
00:25:38,053 --> 00:25:42,013
Speaker 16: Well, if it is a house of representatives, I think

522
00:25:42,533 --> 00:25:45,293
Speaker 16: truly it is representative. I mean we've had people off

523
00:25:45,293 --> 00:25:49,893
Speaker 16: the doll going into Parliament and we've had all sorts

524
00:25:49,973 --> 00:25:52,933
Speaker 16: nandor Tanchos, who now is of course a mayor?

525
00:25:53,093 --> 00:25:53,333
Speaker 5: Yeah?

526
00:25:53,373 --> 00:25:58,052
Speaker 16: And where was Itakatani? Yeah? And you know he used

527
00:25:58,053 --> 00:26:01,653
Speaker 16: to keep the four Court clean, brushing them with his dreadlocks.

528
00:26:01,973 --> 00:26:02,973
Speaker 16: And I often think.

529
00:26:02,853 --> 00:26:06,933
Speaker 2: They're drunk in charge of a country, you know.

530
00:26:06,933 --> 00:26:10,053
Speaker 16: I often think of Muldoon was around, he would turn

531
00:26:10,093 --> 00:26:12,653
Speaker 16: in his style in the sky to see what all

532
00:26:12,733 --> 00:26:17,093
Speaker 16: this was about. But look, it has delivered a representative parliament.

533
00:26:17,133 --> 00:26:20,213
Speaker 16: I guess I don't like the overhang very much because

534
00:26:20,853 --> 00:26:22,253
Speaker 16: some people are still not aware.

535
00:26:22,253 --> 00:26:22,653
Speaker 11: We've got one.

536
00:26:22,653 --> 00:26:26,093
Speaker 16: Hundred and twenty three MPs at the moment and the

537
00:26:26,253 --> 00:26:29,373
Speaker 16: quota normally is one hundred and twenty and this new

538
00:26:29,413 --> 00:26:32,613
Speaker 16: Zealand Initiative report said that in fact, they would like

539
00:26:32,653 --> 00:26:35,933
Speaker 16: to see fifty I think fifty more MPs. Well please,

540
00:26:36,213 --> 00:26:38,613
Speaker 16: I mean, I mean we've got enough to contend with now.

541
00:26:39,453 --> 00:26:39,653
Speaker 18: Yeah.

542
00:26:39,693 --> 00:26:42,453
Speaker 2: But they say that there's not enough people for the

543
00:26:42,853 --> 00:26:47,453
Speaker 2: select committees and that MPs are overworked, and that you know,

544
00:26:48,013 --> 00:26:52,613
Speaker 2: electorates used to be, you know, cover thirty five thousand

545
00:26:52,693 --> 00:26:55,293
Speaker 2: now they cover seventy thousand, and that other countries have

546
00:26:55,293 --> 00:26:58,133
Speaker 2: a similar size have more MPs. So is there is

547
00:26:58,173 --> 00:27:02,053
Speaker 2: there something in that? I mean, do you think select

548
00:27:02,173 --> 00:27:04,373
Speaker 2: committees are working?

549
00:27:04,613 --> 00:27:04,853
Speaker 3: Yes?

550
00:27:04,893 --> 00:27:08,493
Speaker 16: I do, Yeah, I mean select committees they in the

551
00:27:08,533 --> 00:27:10,933
Speaker 16: fifties replaced the old upper House that we used to

552
00:27:10,933 --> 00:27:16,813
Speaker 16: have in Parliament and so legislation is usually tested unless

553
00:27:16,853 --> 00:27:21,653
Speaker 16: it has introduced under urgency. But you know, I think

554
00:27:21,693 --> 00:27:26,293
Speaker 16: back to when it started MMP. You saw medea old

555
00:27:26,373 --> 00:27:30,453
Speaker 16: late friend Bob Jones started his party, the New Zealand Party.

556
00:27:30,893 --> 00:27:34,293
Speaker 16: They got twelve percent of the vote and I think

557
00:27:34,293 --> 00:27:37,853
Speaker 16: it was nineteen eighty one. They got twelve percent, which

558
00:27:37,893 --> 00:27:41,253
Speaker 16: is extraordinary really, and I'd remember saying to Bob at

559
00:27:41,253 --> 00:27:44,693
Speaker 16: the time, mate, you've escaped. Luckily you haven't won an

560
00:27:44,733 --> 00:27:47,453
Speaker 16: electorate seat, so you don't get any seats in Parliament,

561
00:27:47,493 --> 00:27:50,853
Speaker 16: and if you had occupied a seat in Parliament, you

562
00:27:51,013 --> 00:27:52,093
Speaker 16: wouldn't have liked it.

563
00:27:53,573 --> 00:27:56,013
Speaker 5: I hated it. Yeah, what about this idea of lowering

564
00:27:56,053 --> 00:27:58,413
Speaker 5: the threshold to three point five percent? Is that going

565
00:27:58,453 --> 00:28:00,493
Speaker 5: to create all sorts of chaos of there's lonings that

566
00:28:00,893 --> 00:28:04,173
Speaker 5: get across that threshold and then make it even more complicated.

567
00:28:04,173 --> 00:28:07,573
Speaker 16: But Dally, I think if you lower the threshold on

568
00:28:07,893 --> 00:28:12,013
Speaker 16: five percent is fairly difficult to achieve. And we saw

569
00:28:12,613 --> 00:28:15,413
Speaker 16: after John Key said that he wouldn't work with Winston Peters.

570
00:28:16,133 --> 00:28:18,413
Speaker 16: New Zealand first went out of office in two thousand

571
00:28:18,453 --> 00:28:21,293
Speaker 16: and eight for three years, but it's come back stronger

572
00:28:21,333 --> 00:28:25,533
Speaker 16: than ever now, So you know, there is a there's

573
00:28:25,533 --> 00:28:27,973
Speaker 16: always been an argument for a lower threshold, but I

574
00:28:28,013 --> 00:28:31,333
Speaker 16: think five percent is about right because you at least

575
00:28:31,333 --> 00:28:34,773
Speaker 16: you get I shouldn't say serious parties because a couple

576
00:28:34,853 --> 00:28:37,133
Speaker 16: of them that are in there now are not terribly

577
00:28:37,213 --> 00:28:40,133
Speaker 16: serious in my view. But so you do get a

578
00:28:40,133 --> 00:28:43,733
Speaker 16: few dregs in Parliament, and that's certainly the case at

579
00:28:43,733 --> 00:28:48,413
Speaker 16: the moment. But you know, I think it is representative

580
00:28:48,933 --> 00:28:52,453
Speaker 16: and I think five percent is the right threshold to have.

581
00:28:52,973 --> 00:28:55,453
Speaker 2: So when you say it's representative, as Tyler was saying before,

582
00:28:55,493 --> 00:29:00,253
Speaker 2: is it representative when say, in twenty seventeen, National you know,

583
00:29:00,333 --> 00:29:04,293
Speaker 2: get the most votes. But then in New Zealand, first

584
00:29:04,333 --> 00:29:09,653
Speaker 2: Winston comes along and chooses Labor to be to lead

585
00:29:09,693 --> 00:29:12,253
Speaker 2: the government. So is that representative?

586
00:29:12,333 --> 00:29:15,133
Speaker 16: Well, it's the first time it's ever happened under MMP.

587
00:29:15,373 --> 00:29:20,293
Speaker 16: I mean at that election, Bill English led the National

588
00:29:20,333 --> 00:29:25,453
Speaker 16: Party to a seven point lead over Labor on the

589
00:29:25,573 --> 00:29:30,693
Speaker 16: night of the election, and under normal circumstances you would

590
00:29:30,693 --> 00:29:33,813
Speaker 16: expect that it would be a Labor sorry, a National

591
00:29:33,853 --> 00:29:38,053
Speaker 16: government that would form the government. But you know it's

592
00:29:38,093 --> 00:29:42,573
Speaker 16: down to the negotiations and Winston I always said, you

593
00:29:42,693 --> 00:29:45,653
Speaker 16: better get used to the name justin durn prime Minister

594
00:29:46,253 --> 00:29:50,573
Speaker 16: because I always felt that Winston would go with Labor,

595
00:29:50,613 --> 00:29:54,613
Speaker 16: because people tend to forget that it was Bill English

596
00:29:54,653 --> 00:29:57,853
Speaker 16: that moved the motion to get rid of Winston Peters

597
00:29:57,893 --> 00:30:02,333
Speaker 16: from a National Party several years earlier. So Winston has

598
00:30:02,333 --> 00:30:07,733
Speaker 16: a memory and you know, certainly Bill English's future as

599
00:30:07,813 --> 00:30:11,173
Speaker 16: Prime Minister depended on that memory and it wasn't a

600
00:30:11,173 --> 00:30:12,773
Speaker 16: good one, so he never got the job.

601
00:30:13,333 --> 00:30:16,453
Speaker 2: Now, back when they were first talking about MMP, and

602
00:30:16,653 --> 00:30:20,133
Speaker 2: you know, selling it. There were some political now analysts

603
00:30:20,133 --> 00:30:22,093
Speaker 2: and people looking at the system were suggesting that it

604
00:30:22,173 --> 00:30:25,533
Speaker 2: wasn't really compatible with the Maori seats, you know, because

605
00:30:25,533 --> 00:30:27,493
Speaker 2: then you've got the system, but then you've got this

606
00:30:27,613 --> 00:30:29,893
Speaker 2: sort of system to the side of it.

607
00:30:30,453 --> 00:30:31,413
Speaker 3: I don't think there's.

608
00:30:31,293 --> 00:30:35,413
Speaker 2: Any movement really happening now to get rid of those seats.

609
00:30:35,413 --> 00:30:37,053
Speaker 2: But how do you think that's played out? Because that's

610
00:30:37,133 --> 00:30:41,653
Speaker 2: led to the overhands and it's kind of a complicated situation,

611
00:30:41,813 --> 00:30:46,253
Speaker 2: isn't it. Within the Yeah, within an MMP situation, you've

612
00:30:46,293 --> 00:30:46,973
Speaker 2: got this other thing.

613
00:30:47,133 --> 00:30:51,373
Speaker 16: You've got another thing. Look, John Key, you may well remember,

614
00:30:51,413 --> 00:30:53,373
Speaker 16: in the lead up to the two thousand and eight election,

615
00:30:53,933 --> 00:30:55,413
Speaker 16: said that he is going to get rid of the

616
00:30:55,413 --> 00:30:58,533
Speaker 16: Maori seats. When he got the job as Prime Minister,

617
00:30:58,733 --> 00:31:03,693
Speaker 16: he brought in the Maori Party to the government and

618
00:31:03,733 --> 00:31:07,373
Speaker 16: to me, that was his insurance policy that the Maori

619
00:31:07,773 --> 00:31:10,973
Speaker 16: Party that was formed of course by Tarry and Naturia

620
00:31:11,093 --> 00:31:15,413
Speaker 16: when she broke away from the Labor Party. You know,

621
00:31:15,733 --> 00:31:19,773
Speaker 16: she was of real strength in Parliament and a very

622
00:31:19,773 --> 00:31:23,613
Speaker 16: good MP. And I think John Key was quite deft

623
00:31:23,933 --> 00:31:27,693
Speaker 16: and doing a coalition deal with the Maori Party because

624
00:31:27,733 --> 00:31:30,453
Speaker 16: the whole of the country was covered. But as you say, Mat,

625
00:31:31,213 --> 00:31:35,173
Speaker 16: you know, the Maori seats are not really conducive to

626
00:31:35,413 --> 00:31:37,933
Speaker 16: m MP, but the scene is an add on and

627
00:31:37,973 --> 00:31:40,893
Speaker 16: we get to MP's in parliament added to as a result.

628
00:31:41,813 --> 00:31:45,213
Speaker 2: So just finally, Barry, do you think if people knew

629
00:31:45,293 --> 00:31:47,893
Speaker 2: now what they know, whether they would have the people

630
00:31:47,933 --> 00:31:49,973
Speaker 2: that voted for mpeep would have gone for it.

631
00:31:50,253 --> 00:31:53,293
Speaker 16: While I was against it, I was like winners and losers, and.

632
00:31:53,373 --> 00:31:55,893
Speaker 3: You know in fun election nights where it's just decided,

633
00:31:56,933 --> 00:31:58,093
Speaker 3: they've got.

634
00:31:57,893 --> 00:32:02,053
Speaker 19: So many losers becoming winners under the current system that

635
00:32:02,173 --> 00:32:04,493
Speaker 19: you may lose your seat doesn't matter buggery or be

636
00:32:04,533 --> 00:32:07,293
Speaker 19: in parliament anyway because the party likes me on a

637
00:32:07,373 --> 00:32:08,253
Speaker 19: high place on the list.

638
00:32:08,533 --> 00:32:10,893
Speaker 3: But now I've got used to it.

639
00:32:10,973 --> 00:32:14,453
Speaker 16: I actually quite like it because it is representative. There

640
00:32:14,453 --> 00:32:19,173
Speaker 16: are flaws in it and the other thing that they discussed,

641
00:32:19,213 --> 00:32:21,053
Speaker 16: and I know you're running out of time, but the

642
00:32:22,213 --> 00:32:25,093
Speaker 16: four year parliament, that's another thing. There won't be an

643
00:32:25,173 --> 00:32:26,853
Speaker 16: MP in the place that wouldn't vote for a four

644
00:32:26,933 --> 00:32:29,333
Speaker 16: year parliament, yeah, because they have a job for another year.

645
00:32:29,373 --> 00:32:32,573
Speaker 16: But it's not that simple. I think we have a

646
00:32:32,613 --> 00:32:36,093
Speaker 16: boom bust election cycle in New Zealand. So you know,

647
00:32:36,133 --> 00:32:38,773
Speaker 16: at the start of the three years they build on

648
00:32:38,893 --> 00:32:42,253
Speaker 16: what they campaigned on. The second year is normally a

649
00:32:42,373 --> 00:32:45,533
Speaker 16: policy year, and the third year is campaigning again. So

650
00:32:45,573 --> 00:32:49,373
Speaker 16: you've got boom bust elections and I'm an advocate for

651
00:32:49,413 --> 00:32:50,293
Speaker 16: four years as well.

652
00:32:50,373 --> 00:32:53,213
Speaker 5: YEP. Seems to make sense. Barry. It's a fascinating discussion.

653
00:32:53,253 --> 00:32:55,973
Speaker 5: And thank you very much for your analysis. That is

654
00:32:56,013 --> 00:32:59,653
Speaker 5: our senior political correspondent, Barry Soper, taking more of your calls. Oh,

655
00:32:59,693 --> 00:33:01,973
Speaker 5: eight hundred and eighty ten eighty. It is a quarter

656
00:33:02,013 --> 00:33:02,293
Speaker 5: to two.

657
00:33:02,373 --> 00:33:04,453
Speaker 2: Yeah, what do you think these proposed changes the MMP

658
00:33:04,533 --> 00:33:06,853
Speaker 2: and what do you think about MMP altogether as it

659
00:33:06,893 --> 00:33:08,733
Speaker 2: comes up to its thirtieth anniverse.

660
00:33:10,573 --> 00:33:15,453
Speaker 1: Your home of Afternoon Talk, mad Heathen Taylor Adams afternoons call, Oh,

661
00:33:15,493 --> 00:33:18,733
Speaker 1: eight hundred eighty ten eighty News Talk, they'd be afternoon.

662
00:33:18,733 --> 00:33:21,853
Speaker 5: It is twelve to two. We're talking about MMP thirty

663
00:33:21,893 --> 00:33:24,773
Speaker 5: years on. Does it need some tweaks or abolishment altogether?

664
00:33:24,973 --> 00:33:26,653
Speaker 5: Oh one hundred and eighty ten eighty. So number to

665
00:33:26,653 --> 00:33:27,173
Speaker 5: call this.

666
00:33:27,253 --> 00:33:29,373
Speaker 2: Text to us? Just who is proposing the changes?

667
00:33:29,373 --> 00:33:29,653
Speaker 3: Please?

668
00:33:29,653 --> 00:33:32,053
Speaker 2: I've missed the news all day, Brent, So who has

669
00:33:32,093 --> 00:33:34,733
Speaker 2: proposed the changes, Tyler.

670
00:33:34,413 --> 00:33:37,293
Speaker 5: That is the New New Zealand Initiative. They're a think

671
00:33:37,333 --> 00:33:39,653
Speaker 5: tank and their senior fellow Nick Clark. So a couple

672
00:33:39,653 --> 00:33:42,293
Speaker 5: of those changes increase the number of MPs from one

673
00:33:42,373 --> 00:33:44,933
Speaker 5: hundred and twenty one hundred and seventy, reduced the threshold

674
00:33:44,933 --> 00:33:47,493
Speaker 5: to three point five percent, and a four year term.

675
00:33:47,573 --> 00:33:48,693
Speaker 5: Say some bold moves.

676
00:33:48,453 --> 00:33:51,373
Speaker 2: There, Yeah, Gran Reeves, welcome to the show.

677
00:33:51,413 --> 00:33:52,333
Speaker 3: Your thoughts on MMP.

678
00:33:53,773 --> 00:33:59,893
Speaker 4: Oh, hello, Math and Tyler, thanks for taking my call. Yes,

679
00:34:01,053 --> 00:34:04,933
Speaker 4: I'm an opponent of NBNP and I have been ever

680
00:34:04,973 --> 00:34:08,813
Speaker 4: since it was first mooted. And I go back and

681
00:34:10,213 --> 00:34:14,053
Speaker 4: as you probably know, I was an MP in nineteen

682
00:34:14,133 --> 00:34:18,172
Speaker 4: ninety when this matter was going through the process the

683
00:34:18,253 --> 00:34:25,053
Speaker 4: Royal Commission, which did a comprehensive survey of MMP. Their

684
00:34:25,053 --> 00:34:31,093
Speaker 4: recommendation was that the threshold be four percent and that

685
00:34:31,173 --> 00:34:38,133
Speaker 4: the Marii seats be abolished. Now that's not the proposal

686
00:34:38,173 --> 00:34:44,692
Speaker 4: that was put up ultimately for referendum. And the other

687
00:34:45,013 --> 00:34:51,133
Speaker 4: problem that I and others were concerned about at the

688
00:34:51,173 --> 00:34:59,373
Speaker 4: time was that the considerable constitutional change that's envisaged by

689
00:34:59,533 --> 00:35:04,373
Speaker 4: MMP should have been passed by a seventy five percent

690
00:35:04,453 --> 00:35:07,853
Speaker 4: majority rather than a bear majority.

691
00:35:08,453 --> 00:35:10,573
Speaker 3: Right, it was fifty sixty. It was fifty six percent

692
00:35:10,613 --> 00:35:11,333
Speaker 3: in the end, wasn't it.

693
00:35:12,253 --> 00:35:15,732
Speaker 4: No, well, on my understanding, it was about fifty three,

694
00:35:15,773 --> 00:35:22,493
Speaker 4: but fifty three whatever, Yeah, whatever percentage it is, Yeah,

695
00:35:22,573 --> 00:35:27,733
Speaker 4: it wasn't. It wasn't a resounding majority of the populations

696
00:35:28,093 --> 00:35:30,453
Speaker 4: who wanted to have MMPs.

697
00:35:30,773 --> 00:35:33,733
Speaker 2: Hey, we've just got to we've just got to quickly

698
00:35:33,813 --> 00:35:35,573
Speaker 2: go to an air break. Is it called if you

699
00:35:35,573 --> 00:35:37,172
Speaker 2: you just told over the air break and we'll come

700
00:35:37,173 --> 00:35:38,853
Speaker 2: back to you in just in just a couple of minutes.

701
00:35:39,573 --> 00:35:41,453
Speaker 4: Yes, I've just added a cup of tea. Are you

702
00:35:41,493 --> 00:35:41,813
Speaker 4: doing that?

703
00:35:42,173 --> 00:35:44,093
Speaker 2: Af you grabbed me one as well. There'd be awesome, Graham,

704
00:35:44,093 --> 00:35:44,893
Speaker 2: and we'll talk to you soon.

705
00:35:45,933 --> 00:35:48,333
Speaker 5: Smart move. Thank you very much. Just told there. It

706
00:35:48,413 --> 00:35:51,733
Speaker 5: is nine to two Beck very shortly and back with Graham.

707
00:35:51,533 --> 00:35:56,093
Speaker 1: Reeves, madd Heath, Tyler Adams taking your calls on eight

708
00:35:56,213 --> 00:35:59,133
Speaker 1: hundred and eighty eight. It's mad Heath and Tyler Adams

709
00:35:59,173 --> 00:36:01,333
Speaker 1: afternoons News TALKSB.

710
00:36:01,733 --> 00:36:03,693
Speaker 5: News Talks there B. So when we went into the

711
00:36:03,733 --> 00:36:06,093
Speaker 5: air break, we're having a chat with Graham Reeves. Thanks

712
00:36:06,133 --> 00:36:08,252
Speaker 5: for holding on, Graham. Hopefully you've got your cup of tea.

713
00:36:09,293 --> 00:36:10,453
Speaker 4: Yeah, I have, thank you.

714
00:36:10,533 --> 00:36:13,253
Speaker 5: Now we've got about four minutes before the news. So

715
00:36:13,733 --> 00:36:16,253
Speaker 5: when we left you, you thought it should have been

716
00:36:16,293 --> 00:36:18,652
Speaker 5: the introduction of MMP. It should have been seventy five

717
00:36:18,693 --> 00:36:21,533
Speaker 5: percent in favor to get it across the line. Ended

718
00:36:21,573 --> 00:36:24,013
Speaker 5: up being about fifty three. You were against it. Then

719
00:36:24,373 --> 00:36:27,253
Speaker 5: you've seen what's happened over the last twenty nine and

720
00:36:27,293 --> 00:36:29,493
Speaker 5: a half years. How do you feel about the system now?

721
00:36:30,573 --> 00:36:33,893
Speaker 4: Well, I feel even stronger in my position than I

722
00:36:33,933 --> 00:36:40,652
Speaker 4: did back in nineteen ninety. Quite frankly, the problem that

723
00:36:40,733 --> 00:36:45,973
Speaker 4: I see is that MMP was sold on the basis

724
00:36:46,013 --> 00:36:52,172
Speaker 4: that the voters had two votes of equal value. Now

725
00:36:52,373 --> 00:36:56,413
Speaker 4: that simply not true under the MMP system that we have.

726
00:36:57,453 --> 00:37:02,093
Speaker 4: And by the way, the MMP system was one devised

727
00:37:03,133 --> 00:37:06,173
Speaker 4: for the benefit of the Germans after the Second World

728
00:37:06,173 --> 00:37:10,413
Speaker 4: War to ensure that we didn't have another Adolf Hitler elected.

729
00:37:10,573 --> 00:37:15,973
Speaker 4: So it was the way to diffuse part from away

730
00:37:15,973 --> 00:37:19,853
Speaker 4: from the people instinct to that system. But anyway, that's

731
00:37:19,893 --> 00:37:23,853
Speaker 4: by the bye. So the two votes thing is a myth.

732
00:37:24,013 --> 00:37:27,533
Speaker 4: I mean, there's only one vote that really counts under

733
00:37:27,533 --> 00:37:30,893
Speaker 4: an MP, and that's the electric.

734
00:37:30,573 --> 00:37:35,413
Speaker 3: Vote, aside the part party vote.

735
00:37:35,613 --> 00:37:41,413
Speaker 4: Party vote and because that determines the number of seats

736
00:37:41,453 --> 00:37:46,093
Speaker 4: that a party has in the parliament. So to that extent,

737
00:37:46,413 --> 00:37:52,533
Speaker 4: the role of electric MPs has been diminished in two ways.

738
00:37:52,653 --> 00:37:55,213
Speaker 4: First of all, out of one hundred and twenty seats

739
00:37:55,253 --> 00:37:58,733
Speaker 4: in the Parliament, roughly half of them come off a list.

740
00:38:00,573 --> 00:38:03,333
Speaker 4: So those lists, and I think other people have referred

741
00:38:03,373 --> 00:38:08,333
Speaker 4: to this compiled by the party hierarchy who rank it

742
00:38:09,013 --> 00:38:12,213
Speaker 4: allegedly in a democratic fashion, that we know that that's

743
00:38:12,293 --> 00:38:16,173
Speaker 4: not true either. So you've got half of the MP's

744
00:38:16,213 --> 00:38:21,813
Speaker 4: who don't represent the electorate but represent the party arpejects

745
00:38:21,893 --> 00:38:28,533
Speaker 4: if you like. The other problem is that the electric MPs,

746
00:38:29,453 --> 00:38:34,933
Speaker 4: goes back to the issues regarding their role, is that

747
00:38:35,013 --> 00:38:40,493
Speaker 4: the electrics now are so large that it's very difficult

748
00:38:40,853 --> 00:38:49,173
Speaker 4: for an electric MP to manage their electric population properly.

749
00:38:49,613 --> 00:38:51,893
Speaker 4: And if you look at the South Island another places

750
00:38:51,893 --> 00:38:59,293
Speaker 4: in particular huge geographic areas, impossible to have that very

751
00:38:59,293 --> 00:39:02,613
Speaker 4: important factor which is called the community of interest.

752
00:39:03,053 --> 00:39:06,292
Speaker 2: Yeah, well, thank you, Graham Red. Yeah, that's the thing. Yeah,

753
00:39:06,493 --> 00:39:09,093
Speaker 2: very very good points. There have been some Grand Reeves,

754
00:39:09,093 --> 00:39:09,573
Speaker 2: who was.

755
00:39:10,573 --> 00:39:15,573
Speaker 3: A Mirrama Member of Parliament for Mirama in the nineties.

756
00:39:15,253 --> 00:39:18,773
Speaker 5: Yep, some well articulated problems as Graham Reeves saw an MMP.

757
00:39:19,093 --> 00:39:21,053
Speaker 5: But we're going to carry this on after two o'clock,

758
00:39:21,133 --> 00:39:23,853
Speaker 5: So taking your calls O. One hundred and eighty ten eighty.

759
00:39:24,093 --> 00:39:26,653
Speaker 5: How do you feel about MMP as a political system

760
00:39:26,693 --> 00:39:30,093
Speaker 5: almost thirty years on? Is it time to get rid

761
00:39:30,093 --> 00:39:32,333
Speaker 5: of it or does it just need a few tweaks?

762
00:39:32,653 --> 00:39:36,693
Speaker 11: News is next talking with you all afternoon.

763
00:39:37,013 --> 00:39:40,573
Speaker 1: It's Matt Heathen Taylor Adams Afternoons News Talks.

764
00:39:40,613 --> 00:39:43,573
Speaker 5: It'd be welcome back into the show. It is seven

765
00:39:43,653 --> 00:39:46,333
Speaker 5: past two. Just a reminder Gareth Abden Or he's an

766
00:39:46,373 --> 00:39:50,252
Speaker 5: employment workplace in information lawyer and expert. He joins us

767
00:39:50,613 --> 00:39:53,773
Speaker 5: just after three point thirty. He's taken your calls and questions.

768
00:39:53,773 --> 00:39:56,133
Speaker 5: If you've got a problem in your workplace, he is

769
00:39:56,213 --> 00:39:58,773
Speaker 5: the man to chat to. It's always a popular segment,

770
00:39:58,813 --> 00:40:01,013
Speaker 5: so pays to get in early. Just flick us a

771
00:40:01,053 --> 00:40:03,973
Speaker 5: text nine to nine to two and Tyra will get

772
00:40:03,973 --> 00:40:06,533
Speaker 5: you on standby when Gareth joins us in about an

773
00:40:06,573 --> 00:40:09,613
Speaker 5: hour and a half to this discussion we were having

774
00:40:09,653 --> 00:40:13,212
Speaker 5: about our political system MMP. There's a new report that's

775
00:40:13,253 --> 00:40:15,933
Speaker 5: been released by the New Zealand initiative, and they say

776
00:40:16,013 --> 00:40:17,853
Speaker 5: that it is time for a bit of an upgrade.

777
00:40:17,893 --> 00:40:20,813
Speaker 5: They've had a few suggestions. One of those is increasing

778
00:40:20,853 --> 00:40:23,653
Speaker 5: the number of MPs from one twenty to one seventy.

779
00:40:23,813 --> 00:40:24,692
Speaker 5: Very controversial.

780
00:40:24,893 --> 00:40:26,373
Speaker 3: Yeah, not a lot of support for that.

781
00:40:26,453 --> 00:40:28,652
Speaker 2: I mean, he actually gives good reasoning for it, but

782
00:40:29,573 --> 00:40:31,533
Speaker 2: not a lot of support coming through in the text machine.

783
00:40:32,173 --> 00:40:35,413
Speaker 5: No, I don't think any support for that. No, yeah, yeah,

784
00:40:35,453 --> 00:40:38,973
Speaker 5: decreasing the MPs of anything. They also suggest a four

785
00:40:39,053 --> 00:40:42,053
Speaker 5: year political term. We've discussed that many times on this show,

786
00:40:42,613 --> 00:40:47,253
Speaker 5: and also dropping the threshold for MMP from five percent

787
00:40:47,293 --> 00:40:48,813
Speaker 5: down to three point five percent.

788
00:40:49,173 --> 00:40:51,493
Speaker 3: Yeah, so all you have to do is.

789
00:40:53,213 --> 00:40:56,653
Speaker 2: Convince three point five percent of people of your ideas

790
00:40:56,853 --> 00:40:58,053
Speaker 2: and then you get into parliament.

791
00:40:58,133 --> 00:41:00,172
Speaker 5: Yeah, sounds like a disaster to the me. But what

792
00:41:00,173 --> 00:41:02,693
Speaker 5: do you say, and do you think MMP still works

793
00:41:02,693 --> 00:41:04,853
Speaker 5: for us or is it time to look at other options?

794
00:41:04,893 --> 00:41:06,692
Speaker 2: The sex It says, hey, guys, certainly not a fan

795
00:41:06,733 --> 00:41:08,693
Speaker 2: of MMP as the vote's always in out with a

796
00:41:08,733 --> 00:41:11,253
Speaker 2: watered down version of what the parties campaigned on, and

797
00:41:11,293 --> 00:41:13,893
Speaker 2: then the governing parties cannot be held to account as

798
00:41:13,973 --> 00:41:17,693
Speaker 2: they can justifiably reason that they didn't enact the policies

799
00:41:17,733 --> 00:41:22,933
Speaker 2: they were elected on. Example, Labor's news CGT policy will

800
00:41:22,933 --> 00:41:24,853
Speaker 2: never see the light of day in its current form

801
00:41:24,973 --> 00:41:31,013
Speaker 2: due to coalition negotiations. Regards Mark, this says, Hi, guys,

802
00:41:32,333 --> 00:41:35,453
Speaker 2: First past the Post and MMP both have issues. Wouldn't

803
00:41:35,453 --> 00:41:37,413
Speaker 2: it be great if you could vote for a main

804
00:41:37,493 --> 00:41:40,973
Speaker 2: party and votes say two minor parties they have to

805
00:41:41,013 --> 00:41:43,652
Speaker 2: work with. That way you could get national party with

806
00:41:43,733 --> 00:41:46,212
Speaker 2: Greens or multiparty et cetera. That way you would truly

807
00:41:46,293 --> 00:41:49,813
Speaker 2: get representation around decision making. This would stop tailwigging dog.

808
00:41:49,853 --> 00:41:52,533
Speaker 2: And also politicians say that they won't work with whoever.

809
00:41:52,893 --> 00:41:54,453
Speaker 2: That would be an interesting thanks, Julie.

810
00:41:54,533 --> 00:41:57,533
Speaker 5: Yeah, I mean that's arranged marriage situation. Isn't it that

811
00:41:57,573 --> 00:42:00,853
Speaker 5: the voters say you have to work with whatever party

812
00:42:00,893 --> 00:42:03,093
Speaker 5: we decide by vote? Interesting ideas?

813
00:42:03,533 --> 00:42:04,732
Speaker 3: Rich said, do you love MMP?

814
00:42:06,213 --> 00:42:09,652
Speaker 9: I love MMP their time and I won't promise you

815
00:42:09,653 --> 00:42:11,893
Speaker 9: some of the last time, Matt, I will never forget

816
00:42:11,933 --> 00:42:12,333
Speaker 9: your name.

817
00:42:12,693 --> 00:42:16,973
Speaker 3: Okay, that's right. It sounds like you've It sounds like

818
00:42:17,013 --> 00:42:17,693
Speaker 3: you've noted.

819
00:42:21,453 --> 00:42:24,853
Speaker 9: Many years now over there when he was producing. But anyhow,

820
00:42:24,933 --> 00:42:28,973
Speaker 9: back to MT look to be honest to my way,

821
00:42:29,013 --> 00:42:31,493
Speaker 9: of thinking m MP is the best thing since flice Bread.

822
00:42:31,533 --> 00:42:37,172
Speaker 9: To be honest, the Bruce and were very sober. What

823
00:42:37,253 --> 00:42:40,453
Speaker 9: he said were absolutely true to a certain stent. Your

824
00:42:40,453 --> 00:42:43,573
Speaker 9: previous caller, who was an MP, was really telling a

825
00:42:43,653 --> 00:42:48,093
Speaker 9: number of half truths there now, MP, yes, we know

826
00:42:48,173 --> 00:42:50,533
Speaker 9: the back room deals. Of course, a back room deals.

827
00:42:50,773 --> 00:42:54,733
Speaker 9: First past the place had bigger backroom deals Rob Muldoon

828
00:42:54,813 --> 00:42:57,692
Speaker 9: and that from that quasi dictator from the Queensland who's

829
00:42:57,693 --> 00:43:02,533
Speaker 9: dead now, Joki the Lt. Pedersen. They were experts at

830
00:43:02,613 --> 00:43:06,253
Speaker 9: Jeri Mannering experts have been putting their mates on electoral

831
00:43:06,293 --> 00:43:10,212
Speaker 9: submissions so they're able to dictate what areas were bigg

832
00:43:10,333 --> 00:43:12,652
Speaker 9: enough for them, what areas were low enough for them.

833
00:43:12,653 --> 00:43:14,773
Speaker 9: I remember in the nineteen what it was at nineteen

834
00:43:15,413 --> 00:43:19,053
Speaker 9: eighty four or even before that, the seventy eight elections,

835
00:43:19,653 --> 00:43:23,893
Speaker 9: Bestell were in on thirty five percent of the popular vote.

836
00:43:24,293 --> 00:43:28,093
Speaker 9: Now if that's not jerrymandering on what they were doing,

837
00:43:28,133 --> 00:43:30,813
Speaker 9: which was absolutely upply corrupt.

838
00:43:30,533 --> 00:43:33,293
Speaker 3: Just seeking Richard, what what year was that, Richard?

839
00:43:35,013 --> 00:43:37,533
Speaker 9: I think it was seventy eight or eighty one, It

840
00:43:37,613 --> 00:43:41,333
Speaker 9: doesn't make any difference, but national were in on the

841
00:43:41,453 --> 00:43:44,813
Speaker 9: lower popular vote. In other words, thirty five forty percent

842
00:43:44,853 --> 00:43:47,893
Speaker 9: whatever it was, and sixty percent of people didn't have

843
00:43:47,933 --> 00:43:50,693
Speaker 9: any representation at all. And when social critic came and

844
00:43:50,813 --> 00:43:54,973
Speaker 9: under the Kracknell and Bruce Beason and Gary Knapp, they

845
00:43:54,973 --> 00:43:58,652
Speaker 9: were classed by molder In as radicals in those days.

846
00:43:58,653 --> 00:44:01,053
Speaker 9: In fact, social I agree with one thing they'll do

847
00:44:01,133 --> 00:44:03,613
Speaker 9: in social credit. No one could understand that people could

848
00:44:03,773 --> 00:44:07,373
Speaker 9: understand MMP. How could they understand social credits. No one

849
00:44:07,413 --> 00:44:10,973
Speaker 9: understood what their policies were and how their monetary policies worked.

850
00:44:11,173 --> 00:44:15,253
Speaker 9: It was impossible. So m MP overall has been a

851
00:44:15,293 --> 00:44:19,293
Speaker 9: wonderful system. I believe that I agree with Barry Mary

852
00:44:19,373 --> 00:44:22,172
Speaker 9: Sofa A Bruce that it should be dropped from three

853
00:44:22,213 --> 00:44:25,013
Speaker 9: years ago, from three years to four years. I think

854
00:44:25,053 --> 00:44:29,693
Speaker 9: the what you call it the threshold of getting a

855
00:44:29,733 --> 00:44:31,813
Speaker 9: party in power should not go to three point five

856
00:44:31,973 --> 00:44:35,533
Speaker 9: four percent. With their very very good figure overall, and

857
00:44:36,013 --> 00:44:39,053
Speaker 9: the previous call even shot himself in the foot. They're saying, look,

858
00:44:39,413 --> 00:44:44,693
Speaker 9: the current system of MPs under the list system, it

859
00:44:44,693 --> 00:44:46,933
Speaker 9: doesn't make any difference what system, But due to the

860
00:44:46,973 --> 00:44:50,253
Speaker 9: geographic and tiny population of New Zealand has got a

861
00:44:50,293 --> 00:44:52,933
Speaker 9: lot you know, over worked. Well that's just shooting himself

862
00:44:52,933 --> 00:44:55,853
Speaker 9: in the in the foot that for their what these

863
00:44:56,173 --> 00:44:58,333
Speaker 9: news paint tanks they are saying, increase the number of

864
00:44:58,373 --> 00:45:01,373
Speaker 9: the MPs. Well, that's obviously the threat of the matter.

865
00:45:02,213 --> 00:45:05,133
Speaker 9: If they've got to increase their workload of too much

866
00:45:05,173 --> 00:45:08,053
Speaker 9: of their workload, increase the number of the MPs. It's

867
00:45:08,093 --> 00:45:10,933
Speaker 9: not wrong with that. But if you look at it

868
00:45:11,533 --> 00:45:14,853
Speaker 9: politics at the end of the day, that tyler politics.

869
00:45:15,013 --> 00:45:18,933
Speaker 9: No matter what system you've got, from an extremist of

870
00:45:18,973 --> 00:45:22,093
Speaker 9: a dictatorship to the most liberal systems perhaps of a

871
00:45:22,173 --> 00:45:27,013
Speaker 9: New Zealand or Sweden for argument's sake, politics is a sealthy,

872
00:45:27,293 --> 00:45:28,293
Speaker 9: stealthy game.

873
00:45:30,253 --> 00:45:34,613
Speaker 2: Deals that falthy game. So you don't think that small

874
00:45:34,653 --> 00:45:37,933
Speaker 2: parties whole disproportionate power in MMP.

875
00:45:38,293 --> 00:45:42,413
Speaker 9: They don't. What Bruce was saying, your first caller, what

876
00:45:42,453 --> 00:45:45,172
Speaker 9: Bruce was saying is quite crack. What is said. On

877
00:45:45,213 --> 00:45:47,772
Speaker 9: the surface, it's a bit like a mudguard of a car.

878
00:45:47,813 --> 00:45:50,613
Speaker 9: It's all shiny on top and crap underneath. When it

879
00:45:50,613 --> 00:45:53,773
Speaker 9: comes down to when it comes down to the boils

880
00:45:53,853 --> 00:46:00,253
Speaker 9: of the everyday politics. The color, it's the fact that

881
00:46:00,253 --> 00:46:05,853
Speaker 9: you're using color with MMP, and they are always bought

882
00:46:05,893 --> 00:46:08,013
Speaker 9: in line. You've said it yourself. The Greens have never

883
00:46:08,053 --> 00:46:12,213
Speaker 9: had a minister inside cannas they head ministers outside cabinast.

884
00:46:12,493 --> 00:46:14,893
Speaker 9: But at the end of the day, going back to

885
00:46:14,973 --> 00:46:18,213
Speaker 9: first past the post would be just a simple black

886
00:46:18,293 --> 00:46:20,013
Speaker 9: and white situation with the.

887
00:46:21,253 --> 00:46:24,493
Speaker 2: Well what do you think about list MPs though, because

888
00:46:25,373 --> 00:46:28,053
Speaker 2: isn't that a problem that you can't directly punish a

889
00:46:28,133 --> 00:46:32,093
Speaker 2: list MP because they're selected by their party. So if

890
00:46:32,133 --> 00:46:33,853
Speaker 2: you if you don't, if you don't like a particular

891
00:46:34,293 --> 00:46:36,413
Speaker 2: MP and your electorate, you can vote vote them out.

892
00:46:37,053 --> 00:46:42,173
Speaker 2: But the list MP's are you know that that that

893
00:46:42,373 --> 00:46:44,973
Speaker 2: is decided by the party and not by the voters.

894
00:46:45,053 --> 00:46:48,653
Speaker 9: You could argue, well, the same thing you've just again,

895
00:46:49,053 --> 00:46:52,053
Speaker 9: is that you tillable again that you could say the

896
00:46:52,133 --> 00:46:54,493
Speaker 9: same thing around under first part of post. You look

897
00:46:54,493 --> 00:46:58,333
Speaker 9: at Jim Anderson and Marilyn are wearing they post their

898
00:46:58,453 --> 00:47:00,373
Speaker 9: party still the parties two to them.

899
00:47:00,853 --> 00:47:02,733
Speaker 5: That brilliant question was Matt. By the way, Richard, I

900
00:47:02,853 --> 00:47:04,573
Speaker 5: just going to jump in there and say that, but

901
00:47:04,733 --> 00:47:05,732
Speaker 5: always nice to hear.

902
00:47:05,653 --> 00:47:06,733
Speaker 3: From you, thanks Richard.

903
00:47:06,853 --> 00:47:12,172
Speaker 2: So in nineteen seventy eight, National got forty seven point

904
00:47:12,253 --> 00:47:15,212
Speaker 2: six percent of the vote. Labor got thirty nine point

905
00:47:15,333 --> 00:47:18,453
Speaker 2: six and Social Credit got seven point four. So I

906
00:47:18,493 --> 00:47:20,773
Speaker 2: think Richard was talking about the nineteen eighty one election,

907
00:47:20,893 --> 00:47:25,652
Speaker 2: which is one that people thought was unfair because National

908
00:47:25,733 --> 00:47:28,653
Speaker 2: got thirty nine point eight percent of the vote and

909
00:47:28,893 --> 00:47:31,213
Speaker 2: Labor got forty percent of the vote. So National got

910
00:47:31,253 --> 00:47:35,493
Speaker 2: fifty one seats and Labor got forty, but Social Credit

911
00:47:35,613 --> 00:47:37,853
Speaker 2: under Bruce Beetham got sixteen point one percent of the

912
00:47:37,933 --> 00:47:38,893
Speaker 2: vote but only one seat.

913
00:47:39,093 --> 00:47:41,853
Speaker 3: Yeah right, yeah, so that was you know, that was

914
00:47:41,893 --> 00:47:42,573
Speaker 3: complicated with.

915
00:47:42,893 --> 00:47:45,293
Speaker 2: But then again you've got to say, as Barry Soaper

916
00:47:45,453 --> 00:47:48,013
Speaker 2: was saying before, then, you've got Bob Jones coming in

917
00:47:48,973 --> 00:47:50,973
Speaker 2: and he rigged the system by it with the New

918
00:47:51,053 --> 00:47:54,013
Speaker 2: Zealand Party and just took the vote away from National

919
00:47:54,093 --> 00:47:56,533
Speaker 2: because he wanted Rod Melbert Muldoon.

920
00:47:56,573 --> 00:47:57,413
Speaker 5: Now, yeah, exactly.

921
00:47:57,453 --> 00:48:01,453
Speaker 2: So there we were ways to control the system from

922
00:48:01,493 --> 00:48:05,212
Speaker 2: a minor part of minor party perspective, even back under

923
00:48:05,453 --> 00:48:06,253
Speaker 2: First Past the Posts.

924
00:48:06,293 --> 00:48:08,813
Speaker 5: Yeah, very true. Oh one hundred and eighty ten is

925
00:48:08,973 --> 00:48:12,053
Speaker 5: that number to call? Do you think MMP still works

926
00:48:12,093 --> 00:48:14,813
Speaker 5: for us? Or is it time to look at other options?

927
00:48:14,893 --> 00:48:15,973
Speaker 5: It is quarter Bus two.

928
00:48:17,493 --> 00:48:21,613
Speaker 1: Your home of afternoon talk, mad Heathen Tyler Adams afternoons

929
00:48:21,853 --> 00:48:25,293
Speaker 1: Call eight hundred eighty ten eighty news talks'd.

930
00:48:24,773 --> 00:48:29,053
Speaker 5: Be very good afternoons. Use So we've had MMP for

931
00:48:29,133 --> 00:48:31,773
Speaker 5: almost thirty years, now, do you reckon it's still the

932
00:48:31,813 --> 00:48:34,613
Speaker 5: best system for choosing our government? Of eight hundred eighty

933
00:48:34,653 --> 00:48:37,493
Speaker 5: ten eighty is a number to call, Chuck, welcome to

934
00:48:37,533 --> 00:48:37,813
Speaker 5: the show.

935
00:48:37,853 --> 00:48:38,333
Speaker 3: Your thoughts.

936
00:48:39,453 --> 00:48:43,453
Speaker 13: Well, I think it mostly works, but there's one defact

937
00:48:43,493 --> 00:48:46,733
Speaker 13: that's come real clear, and I'd like it to be

938
00:48:46,893 --> 00:48:50,973
Speaker 13: explained by Sunday. How do we get rid of the

939
00:48:51,293 --> 00:48:56,093
Speaker 13: overhang that the Maori Party is taking advantage of where

940
00:48:56,173 --> 00:48:58,973
Speaker 13: they get three basically three extra seats.

941
00:49:00,413 --> 00:49:03,693
Speaker 2: Yeah, so the overhang works because I mean that the

942
00:49:03,813 --> 00:49:06,413
Speaker 2: idea behind the overhang isn't it is that if someone

943
00:49:06,453 --> 00:49:08,533
Speaker 2: doesn't get five percent, but they're winning more or of

944
00:49:08,653 --> 00:49:12,573
Speaker 2: their actual seats electorate seats, then it would seem unfair

945
00:49:12,693 --> 00:49:15,652
Speaker 2: to take away a seat of someone just because they

946
00:49:15,653 --> 00:49:20,693
Speaker 2: hadn't reached the five percent threshold. But Chuck, when MMP

947
00:49:20,933 --> 00:49:23,813
Speaker 2: was bringing out a lot of political analysalists at the time,

948
00:49:23,893 --> 00:49:27,333
Speaker 2: said that the Maori seats didn't really work within m

949
00:49:27,493 --> 00:49:33,692
Speaker 2: MP because that overhang really is not for it doesn't

950
00:49:33,773 --> 00:49:36,173
Speaker 2: quite work with those seats really in terms of the fairness,

951
00:49:36,173 --> 00:49:37,973
Speaker 2: because you can see the fairness of the overhand, can't

952
00:49:38,013 --> 00:49:44,053
Speaker 2: you If not? Really, I say there was if there

953
00:49:44,053 --> 00:49:48,772
Speaker 2: weren't the Maordi seats, and and a party got three

954
00:49:48,813 --> 00:49:51,853
Speaker 2: point five percent of the vote, but they but they

955
00:49:51,973 --> 00:49:55,893
Speaker 2: got four electrical electorate seats, then you would have to

956
00:49:55,933 --> 00:49:57,893
Speaker 2: take on one or two of those off them because

957
00:49:57,933 --> 00:49:59,893
Speaker 2: of their party vote hadn't go over the threshold.

958
00:50:00,093 --> 00:50:01,893
Speaker 3: Do you think that that part of the overhang is.

959
00:50:02,213 --> 00:50:05,772
Speaker 13: Fair, Well, it's hard to say. I'd like to find

960
00:50:06,573 --> 00:50:09,813
Speaker 13: the recommendation is to do with the overhang, isn't it.

961
00:50:10,773 --> 00:50:13,813
Speaker 5: Yeah, But as you said, and Chuck, I think you'd

962
00:50:13,853 --> 00:50:16,533
Speaker 5: agree with this with a system like MMP that is

963
00:50:16,813 --> 00:50:20,013
Speaker 5: fairly complicated, but some would argue as a fairer system

964
00:50:20,093 --> 00:50:22,413
Speaker 5: in some ways. But when you've got that complication and

965
00:50:22,493 --> 00:50:26,413
Speaker 5: then you add in another element like those those multi seats,

966
00:50:26,493 --> 00:50:29,693
Speaker 5: then that creates something like the overhang being much more common.

967
00:50:30,013 --> 00:50:31,413
Speaker 5: So that would be the criticism there.

968
00:50:32,413 --> 00:50:35,493
Speaker 13: It's not just the fact that there are Marory seats.

969
00:50:36,053 --> 00:50:42,213
Speaker 13: The Mary MPs say hey, just you vote for my seat,

970
00:50:42,733 --> 00:50:46,173
Speaker 13: my electric seat, but give your other vote to labor.

971
00:50:47,413 --> 00:50:48,373
Speaker 13: Are you aware of that?

972
00:50:49,933 --> 00:50:55,413
Speaker 3: Not specifically, but but is you know, the the Multi

973
00:50:55,453 --> 00:50:58,013
Speaker 3: Party and has had the overhang?

974
00:50:58,213 --> 00:50:58,413
Speaker 8: Yeah?

975
00:50:58,613 --> 00:50:59,933
Speaker 2: I think are they the only part I think that

976
00:51:00,053 --> 00:51:02,133
Speaker 2: the only party that's had the yeah, correct, So the

977
00:51:02,293 --> 00:51:04,292
Speaker 2: overhang has never come up for any other party because

978
00:51:04,293 --> 00:51:06,413
Speaker 2: it's so hard to win an electric see yeah, yeah,

979
00:51:06,573 --> 00:51:09,373
Speaker 2: exactly hard And really with the MP, the idea is

980
00:51:09,413 --> 00:51:11,773
Speaker 2: that a party that's never going to win an electorate

981
00:51:11,853 --> 00:51:14,853
Speaker 2: seat because that's hard, and they're generally speaking going to

982
00:51:14,933 --> 00:51:17,253
Speaker 2: go to the two big parties. And there are occasions

983
00:51:17,253 --> 00:51:19,213
Speaker 2: when it doesn't obviously, but the normals are go to

984
00:51:19,253 --> 00:51:21,333
Speaker 2: the big, big party. So the idea of MP is

985
00:51:21,333 --> 00:51:23,933
Speaker 2: that you get representation outside of the electric seats. So

986
00:51:23,933 --> 00:51:26,653
Speaker 2: it would totally make with it. Over makes sense with

987
00:51:26,693 --> 00:51:28,693
Speaker 2: an overhang, but it does get complicated when you have

988
00:51:29,933 --> 00:51:34,453
Speaker 2: the Maori seats. Yeah, absolutely, because you know, the Multi

989
00:51:34,493 --> 00:51:36,173
Speaker 2: Party is a small party that's much more likely to

990
00:51:36,213 --> 00:51:37,013
Speaker 2: win an electric seat.

991
00:51:37,173 --> 00:51:39,653
Speaker 5: Exactly. You know, it's a massive complication to the system

992
00:51:39,653 --> 00:51:40,453
Speaker 5: we've So what did.

993
00:51:41,293 --> 00:51:45,333
Speaker 3: Nick Clark, what did the what were the proposals around

994
00:51:45,373 --> 00:51:46,293
Speaker 3: the overhang.

995
00:51:46,773 --> 00:51:47,013
Speaker 10: In this.

996
00:51:48,573 --> 00:51:50,893
Speaker 5: Yeah, from the story I was reading in terms of

997
00:51:51,213 --> 00:51:56,133
Speaker 5: the overhang, So instead abolishing the overhang seats and again

998
00:51:56,213 --> 00:51:58,732
Speaker 5: lowering that party a vote three shold to three point

999
00:51:58,813 --> 00:52:02,853
Speaker 5: five to four percent. So by abolishing those overhang seats

1000
00:52:02,853 --> 00:52:05,812
Speaker 5: and making it easier for those smaller parties or those

1001
00:52:06,253 --> 00:52:10,653
Speaker 5: rogue parties to get into parliament just on that votes.

1002
00:52:11,213 --> 00:52:14,413
Speaker 5: So that's I mean, that would remove what is quite

1003
00:52:14,413 --> 00:52:17,652
Speaker 5: a complex an anomaly when it comes to m MP.

1004
00:52:17,853 --> 00:52:19,893
Speaker 5: But this is where it all gets so bloody complicated

1005
00:52:20,053 --> 00:52:23,013
Speaker 5: is the MMP is a far more complicated system. Who

1006
00:52:23,013 --> 00:52:25,413
Speaker 5: has passed the post right. As you said, before you

1007
00:52:25,573 --> 00:52:28,093
Speaker 5: win and you get you get the most votes, you

1008
00:52:28,213 --> 00:52:30,293
Speaker 5: were in that electorate seat and if you get enough

1009
00:52:30,493 --> 00:52:32,333
Speaker 5: electorate seats then you are in government.

1010
00:52:32,573 --> 00:52:35,573
Speaker 2: Very simple system, as very sober said, it's it as

1011
00:52:35,613 --> 00:52:39,013
Speaker 2: a system that tends to reward losers. Yeah, exactly, not

1012
00:52:39,413 --> 00:52:43,373
Speaker 2: necessarily losers in life, but people that lost, you know

1013
00:52:43,453 --> 00:52:47,653
Speaker 2: it didn't win in various ways across the electorate have

1014
00:52:47,853 --> 00:52:50,613
Speaker 2: ways of getting in. So that's why they're suggesting the

1015
00:52:51,333 --> 00:52:54,493
Speaker 2: lowering of the threshold is because it makes sense to

1016
00:52:54,533 --> 00:52:56,533
Speaker 2: get rid of the overhang. I can kind of see that,

1017
00:52:56,653 --> 00:52:59,173
Speaker 2: but I think the problems with lowering the threshold is

1018
00:52:59,733 --> 00:53:05,093
Speaker 2: you get more and more parties one issue parties or

1019
00:53:05,173 --> 00:53:07,973
Speaker 2: parties with quite extreme views that can get find three

1020
00:53:08,013 --> 00:53:10,253
Speaker 2: point five five percent of people that will follow them,

1021
00:53:10,653 --> 00:53:13,133
Speaker 2: and then what happens is all we ever hear about

1022
00:53:13,293 --> 00:53:15,093
Speaker 2: is the views of that three point five percent party

1023
00:53:15,133 --> 00:53:17,253
Speaker 2: because they are the most extreme views and parties, so

1024
00:53:17,333 --> 00:53:20,333
Speaker 2: they make the best headlines, they create the most drama,

1025
00:53:20,773 --> 00:53:24,573
Speaker 2: and then the entire political discourse is based around people

1026
00:53:24,653 --> 00:53:25,813
Speaker 2: that have very few followers.

1027
00:53:25,893 --> 00:53:28,333
Speaker 5: Yeah, the tail wagon the dog is they say? Oh

1028
00:53:28,373 --> 00:53:31,013
Speaker 5: eight hundred eighty ten eighty is the number to call MMP.

1029
00:53:31,173 --> 00:53:33,893
Speaker 5: It's almost thirty years old in New Zealand? Is it

1030
00:53:33,973 --> 00:53:36,493
Speaker 5: still working? Love to hear your thoughts? Twenty three past two.

1031
00:53:40,253 --> 00:53:43,933
Speaker 1: Matt Heathen, Tyler Adams afternoons call Oh eight hundred eighty

1032
00:53:44,013 --> 00:53:46,973
Speaker 1: ten eighty on news Talk ZB very good afternoons.

1033
00:53:47,053 --> 00:53:49,493
Speaker 5: Use So almost thirty years of MMP and New Zealand.

1034
00:53:49,773 --> 00:53:52,013
Speaker 5: Is it helping democracy work better here? Or is it

1035
00:53:52,133 --> 00:53:55,093
Speaker 5: just making politics more messy and complicated? Oh eight hundred

1036
00:53:55,133 --> 00:53:59,013
Speaker 5: eighty ten eighty is the number to call? LEO, how

1037
00:53:59,053 --> 00:53:59,253
Speaker 5: are you?

1038
00:54:00,653 --> 00:54:05,333
Speaker 10: I'm good? Thank you guys. I don't vote in New Zealand.

1039
00:54:05,413 --> 00:54:07,933
Speaker 10: I'm a resident, but I'm not a citizen, so I

1040
00:54:08,053 --> 00:54:10,653
Speaker 10: can't vote. So none of this mess can be blamed

1041
00:54:10,693 --> 00:54:10,973
Speaker 10: on me.

1042
00:54:12,773 --> 00:54:13,853
Speaker 3: You're well, you're a semi.

1043
00:54:14,493 --> 00:54:18,013
Speaker 2: You're an educated by semi outside of the observer, which

1044
00:54:18,093 --> 00:54:19,453
Speaker 2: was an interesting perspective, Lea.

1045
00:54:20,293 --> 00:54:23,613
Speaker 10: But here's the thing I'll say. If there was twenty

1046
00:54:23,653 --> 00:54:26,253
Speaker 10: there's twenty apartments in the block, and they want to

1047
00:54:26,333 --> 00:54:30,973
Speaker 10: paint the front door a new color. Nobody they get.

1048
00:54:31,013 --> 00:54:33,933
Speaker 10: Everybody gets the first choice and a second choice. Nobody

1049
00:54:33,973 --> 00:54:36,973
Speaker 10: agrees on the first choice, but two people put yellow

1050
00:54:37,333 --> 00:54:40,053
Speaker 10: as the second choice, so the door is painted yellow.

1051
00:54:40,533 --> 00:54:44,773
Speaker 10: But an even more precise thing of MMP, imagine if

1052
00:54:44,813 --> 00:54:48,253
Speaker 10: the Olympics, the gold and the silver and bronze medal

1053
00:54:48,853 --> 00:54:52,293
Speaker 10: weightlifting medal guys are standing there, and then the bronze

1054
00:54:52,293 --> 00:54:54,933
Speaker 10: and silvers say, you know, if we added our weight together,

1055
00:54:55,293 --> 00:54:57,533
Speaker 10: we'd be heavier than him and we could get the

1056
00:54:57,613 --> 00:55:04,213
Speaker 10: gold medal. That's exactly what MMP means. First, the post

1057
00:55:05,213 --> 00:55:08,692
Speaker 10: bird past the post is. It's not perfect, but it's

1058
00:55:08,853 --> 00:55:14,013
Speaker 10: far fairer because I remember when she who shall not

1059
00:55:14,173 --> 00:55:17,533
Speaker 10: be mentioned, who's left the country now, thank god, But

1060
00:55:17,693 --> 00:55:22,133
Speaker 10: when she got the job the first time because Winston

1061
00:55:22,213 --> 00:55:26,333
Speaker 10: went with her instead of when the silver and bronze

1062
00:55:26,373 --> 00:55:31,133
Speaker 10: joined forces. When she was doing the next election. She said, well,

1063
00:55:31,173 --> 00:55:33,533
Speaker 10: when we won the last election, and it's like you

1064
00:55:33,653 --> 00:55:37,493
Speaker 10: didn't when you came second. But it's the Donald trumping.

1065
00:55:37,573 --> 00:55:40,013
Speaker 10: If you keep saying it over and over and over again,

1066
00:55:40,493 --> 00:55:44,333
Speaker 10: people will believe whatever you've said. Oh no, he said it,

1067
00:55:44,413 --> 00:55:49,252
Speaker 10: it's true. The MMP is it's ludicrous. And who put

1068
00:55:49,453 --> 00:55:53,853
Speaker 10: MMP into play Winston Peters because he knew he was

1069
00:55:53,973 --> 00:55:56,933
Speaker 10: never going to be in a big party again.

1070
00:55:57,093 --> 00:55:58,573
Speaker 12: So right, I know what I'll do.

1071
00:55:58,973 --> 00:56:02,893
Speaker 10: I'll create this system and then I will be the kingmaker.

1072
00:56:03,613 --> 00:56:04,933
Speaker 10: It's just ludicrous.

1073
00:56:05,413 --> 00:56:07,533
Speaker 2: Or you could argue that he was just a lot

1074
00:56:07,573 --> 00:56:09,733
Speaker 2: better at playing the game than anyone else and jumped

1075
00:56:09,773 --> 00:56:12,613
Speaker 2: onto m MP and understood it quicker than anyone else.

1076
00:56:12,693 --> 00:56:16,692
Speaker 2: And those are the rules, and the better politician wins

1077
00:56:16,733 --> 00:56:19,213
Speaker 2: within the rules that are being sick by the you

1078
00:56:19,293 --> 00:56:20,493
Speaker 2: know the referendum that b.

1079
00:56:22,973 --> 00:56:26,613
Speaker 10: Not yes, you're you are one hundred percent correct. But

1080
00:56:26,773 --> 00:56:29,933
Speaker 10: when Descinda got rid of him when it was the

1081
00:56:30,053 --> 00:56:32,933
Speaker 10: COVID election and then she was doing her pulpit of

1082
00:56:33,093 --> 00:56:37,973
Speaker 10: truth political broadcast every day and it's about air time

1083
00:56:38,773 --> 00:56:42,853
Speaker 10: and he wasn't even in the Then the next election

1084
00:56:43,773 --> 00:56:45,893
Speaker 10: when she says I don't have it in the tank

1085
00:56:46,293 --> 00:56:48,973
Speaker 10: and leaves because she knows she hasn't got a hope

1086
00:56:48,973 --> 00:56:52,853
Speaker 10: in hell's chance of getting in. She's gone. So then

1087
00:56:52,933 --> 00:56:56,013
Speaker 10: Winston Wright, I'll go with them. It's just it is

1088
00:56:56,653 --> 00:57:02,333
Speaker 10: first past the post isn't perfect, but it whoever gets

1089
00:57:02,373 --> 00:57:06,173
Speaker 10: the most votes wins, because even the fact the threshold

1090
00:57:06,533 --> 00:57:09,853
Speaker 10: was you had to get apparently it's sixty percent of

1091
00:57:10,013 --> 00:57:10,453
Speaker 10: the vote.

1092
00:57:11,213 --> 00:57:14,732
Speaker 5: Well, which is I was just going to say quickly, Leo,

1093
00:57:14,853 --> 00:57:17,253
Speaker 5: that's where some of the criticism from you may remember

1094
00:57:17,293 --> 00:57:19,973
Speaker 5: in the UK, obviously it's the first past the post system,

1095
00:57:20,013 --> 00:57:23,853
Speaker 5: and some of the criticism there is that whoever gets

1096
00:57:23,973 --> 00:57:27,453
Speaker 5: the most seats doesn't necessarily get the most votes. I

1097
00:57:27,533 --> 00:57:30,653
Speaker 5: think it was twenty nineteen the Conservatives, they managed to

1098
00:57:30,693 --> 00:57:33,213
Speaker 5: get about forty percent of the popular vote, but enough

1099
00:57:33,293 --> 00:57:35,733
Speaker 5: seats to get into government. So that is, you know,

1100
00:57:35,853 --> 00:57:39,813
Speaker 5: that's big flour nine nineteen eighty one is we were

1101
00:57:39,853 --> 00:57:43,013
Speaker 5: talking before Richard was saying. In nineteen eighty one, the

1102
00:57:43,093 --> 00:57:45,173
Speaker 5: National Party in New Zealand got thirty nine point eight

1103
00:57:45,213 --> 00:57:49,093
Speaker 5: percent of the vote and Labor got forty point four,

1104
00:57:49,453 --> 00:57:53,173
Speaker 5: whereas Social Credit got sixteen point one, but National got

1105
00:57:53,213 --> 00:57:56,093
Speaker 5: fifty one seats. Yeah, there's a big floor. So at

1106
00:57:56,133 --> 00:57:57,213
Speaker 5: that point they.

1107
00:57:56,973 --> 00:57:58,693
Speaker 2: Were only they were getting less than forty percent of

1108
00:57:58,693 --> 00:58:00,853
Speaker 2: the vote, but getting one hundred percent of the power

1109
00:58:01,173 --> 00:58:01,613
Speaker 2: as it were.

1110
00:58:02,013 --> 00:58:06,133
Speaker 10: Ye yeah, I mean, no system is perfect, we understand that.

1111
00:58:06,693 --> 00:58:11,013
Speaker 10: But the ludicrous you know you've got I know this

1112
00:58:11,213 --> 00:58:14,213
Speaker 10: is no disrespect to Winston Peters, but the fact that

1113
00:58:14,373 --> 00:58:17,253
Speaker 10: the guy who gets what was the percentage.

1114
00:58:16,773 --> 00:58:21,973
Speaker 3: They got seven point two percent in the man who got.

1115
00:58:22,013 --> 00:58:25,453
Speaker 10: Seven well, let's say, let's round it up. The generous

1116
00:58:26,053 --> 00:58:28,093
Speaker 10: the man who got eight percent of the vote to

1117
00:58:28,173 --> 00:58:31,933
Speaker 10: the ground up the decision. Yeah, it's just it's just

1118
00:58:32,253 --> 00:58:34,933
Speaker 10: if you saw this in a movie, you would stop

1119
00:58:34,973 --> 00:58:38,133
Speaker 10: watching the movie. You go, this is just bs watching this.

1120
00:58:39,653 --> 00:58:43,533
Speaker 3: It's on Leo's system. You know you've got national that

1121
00:58:43,613 --> 00:58:47,733
Speaker 3: could lift forty four kgs. Yep, You've got labor they

1122
00:58:47,773 --> 00:58:49,813
Speaker 3: could only lift thirty eight kgs.

1123
00:58:49,533 --> 00:58:49,693
Speaker 14: Was it?

1124
00:58:49,853 --> 00:58:51,213
Speaker 5: Yeah, yeah, I think you're about right there.

1125
00:58:51,293 --> 00:58:51,493
Speaker 9: Yep.

1126
00:58:51,693 --> 00:58:56,213
Speaker 3: But Winston goes to the person that couldst.

1127
00:58:56,413 --> 00:58:58,453
Speaker 5: Heard on a podium and he's got an extra.

1128
00:58:58,573 --> 00:59:01,613
Speaker 2: Hey, together, we could lift more than the forty four cages.

1129
00:59:02,253 --> 00:59:04,013
Speaker 2: It's interesting because a lot of people are sixing through

1130
00:59:04,053 --> 00:59:08,933
Speaker 2: and seeing that twenty seventeen election result as being you know,

1131
00:59:09,053 --> 00:59:12,613
Speaker 2: almost like the nineteen eighty one election result, where it

1132
00:59:12,693 --> 00:59:14,813
Speaker 2: was just seemed unfair that National getting in when they

1133
00:59:14,893 --> 00:59:18,093
Speaker 2: got so much, they didn't get anywhere near the popular vote,

1134
00:59:18,533 --> 00:59:20,613
Speaker 2: and that sort of started the rumblings that then by

1135
00:59:20,733 --> 00:59:23,293
Speaker 2: nineteen ninety six ended up with MMP coming in.

1136
00:59:23,453 --> 00:59:23,573
Speaker 20: Right.

1137
00:59:23,693 --> 00:59:25,293
Speaker 2: A lot of people here are looking at the twenty

1138
00:59:25,573 --> 00:59:29,013
Speaker 2: seventeen vote and saying, you know that that system where

1139
00:59:29,133 --> 00:59:32,333
Speaker 2: labor got in, when more people had wanted National and

1140
00:59:32,453 --> 00:59:35,773
Speaker 2: more people sort of voted right leaning, you'd sent a

1141
00:59:35,893 --> 00:59:40,053
Speaker 2: right You'd say, so that in a way that twenty

1142
00:59:40,213 --> 00:59:43,613
Speaker 2: seventeen seems to be a bit of a rallying cry

1143
00:59:43,693 --> 00:59:47,373
Speaker 2: for people that are anti MMPP. And yet in the

1144
00:59:47,453 --> 00:59:52,333
Speaker 2: next election in twenty twenty one, everyone went labor rules

1145
00:59:52,773 --> 00:59:54,333
Speaker 2: and just sent them in there.

1146
00:59:54,453 --> 00:59:57,253
Speaker 5: That is a very fair point. Yeah, nicely, nicely said, So.

1147
00:59:57,373 --> 01:00:00,613
Speaker 2: These people forgot their anger at the twenty seventeen result

1148
01:00:00,653 --> 01:00:01,213
Speaker 2: pretty quickly.

1149
01:00:01,533 --> 01:00:03,773
Speaker 5: Would take more of your calls on oh, eight hundred

1150
01:00:03,773 --> 01:00:06,293
Speaker 5: and eighty ten eighty coming up after the headlines with Raylene.

1151
01:00:06,333 --> 01:00:08,933
Speaker 5: We'll have a chat to Diane and she loved ZMMP,

1152
01:00:09,093 --> 01:00:11,333
Speaker 5: so that's coming up soon. Twenty nine to three.

1153
01:00:13,693 --> 01:00:17,213
Speaker 15: You talks at the headlines with blue bubble taxis. It's

1154
01:00:17,333 --> 01:00:20,533
Speaker 15: no trouble with a blue bubble. The Prime Minister says

1155
01:00:20,613 --> 01:00:23,293
Speaker 15: his goal for the APEX Summit starting now in South

1156
01:00:23,413 --> 01:00:27,573
Speaker 15: Korea is meeting leaders and building relationships. It's attended by

1157
01:00:27,613 --> 01:00:31,133
Speaker 15: the leaders of most Asian and Pacific nations, including China

1158
01:00:31,333 --> 01:00:35,413
Speaker 15: and the US. The Greens are relaunching their call for

1159
01:00:35,573 --> 01:00:39,893
Speaker 15: cannabis reform, five years after a referendum on cannabis legislation

1160
01:00:40,453 --> 01:00:44,413
Speaker 15: narrowly lost the bid for change. The Reserve Bankers cut

1161
01:00:44,493 --> 01:00:47,333
Speaker 15: twenty percent of its workforce to a head count now

1162
01:00:47,413 --> 01:00:50,453
Speaker 15: of six hundred. Since March, one hundred and fifty four

1163
01:00:50,573 --> 01:00:53,733
Speaker 15: jobs have gone one hundred and twenty four. In Wellington

1164
01:00:54,693 --> 01:00:58,453
Speaker 15: police have seized records and documents and questioned three people

1165
01:00:58,853 --> 01:01:03,653
Speaker 15: after claims keiw insurer Maritime Mutual breached sanctions by giving

1166
01:01:03,733 --> 01:01:08,693
Speaker 15: cover to oil tankers flouting Western boycotts on Russia. Former

1167
01:01:08,813 --> 01:01:12,133
Speaker 15: Axe stalwarts Don Brash and the Greens Madain and Davidson

1168
01:01:12,213 --> 01:01:16,653
Speaker 15: are teaming up for next week's prestigious UK Oxford Union debate.

1169
01:01:17,093 --> 01:01:20,493
Speaker 15: They'll oppose the idea the sun should never have set

1170
01:01:20,573 --> 01:01:24,453
Speaker 15: on the British Empire. How the All Blacks can reclaim

1171
01:01:24,533 --> 01:01:28,213
Speaker 15: dominance against Ireland. See the full column at endsid Herald Premium.

1172
01:01:28,653 --> 01:01:30,533
Speaker 15: Back to matt Ethan Tyler Adams.

1173
01:01:30,253 --> 01:01:32,333
Speaker 5: Thank you very much, ray Lean, and we are talking

1174
01:01:32,333 --> 01:01:35,333
Speaker 5: about a MMP system report out by the New Zealand

1175
01:01:35,413 --> 01:01:37,973
Speaker 5: Institute says it's time for some changes. But the question

1176
01:01:38,053 --> 01:01:40,773
Speaker 5: we put to you is is it actually working all together?

1177
01:01:40,893 --> 01:01:42,733
Speaker 5: Do we need to abolish it and look at something new?

1178
01:01:43,013 --> 01:01:44,173
Speaker 5: Oh eight hundred and eighty ten eighty.

1179
01:01:44,773 --> 01:01:46,973
Speaker 2: We're just talking to Leo before and judging by his accent,

1180
01:01:47,053 --> 01:01:50,093
Speaker 2: I think he was from the UK, but he was

1181
01:01:50,133 --> 01:01:51,453
Speaker 2: saying that he wasn't out to vote even though as

1182
01:01:51,453 --> 01:01:54,333
Speaker 2: a resident and you can, as a lot of people.

1183
01:01:54,173 --> 01:01:54,733
Speaker 3: Are texting through.

1184
01:01:54,813 --> 01:01:55,333
Speaker 11: Absolutely.

1185
01:01:55,813 --> 01:01:57,253
Speaker 3: This is who can vote in New Zealand.

1186
01:01:57,293 --> 01:01:59,133
Speaker 2: You're eligible to enroll and vote if you are eighteen

1187
01:01:59,213 --> 01:02:02,453
Speaker 2: years or older, a New Zealand citizen or a permanent resident,

1188
01:02:02,613 --> 01:02:04,653
Speaker 2: and you've lived in New Zealand continuously for twelve months

1189
01:02:04,853 --> 01:02:07,653
Speaker 2: or more at some time in your life.

1190
01:02:07,733 --> 01:02:10,173
Speaker 3: So Leo, well, look you might be able to vote.

1191
01:02:10,253 --> 01:02:11,733
Speaker 5: Yeah, get down to your postal.

1192
01:02:11,973 --> 01:02:12,173
Speaker 3: Yeah.

1193
01:02:12,373 --> 01:02:14,013
Speaker 2: It's interesting because he knew a lot about the political

1194
01:02:14,013 --> 01:02:16,213
Speaker 2: system but didn't know how he could vote exactly.

1195
01:02:17,053 --> 01:02:18,973
Speaker 5: Diane, you're a big fan of MMP.

1196
01:02:19,373 --> 01:02:23,133
Speaker 21: You love it, Yes, I do do love it. I

1197
01:02:23,253 --> 01:02:27,493
Speaker 21: think it's far better system. The other system was just

1198
01:02:27,853 --> 01:02:33,853
Speaker 21: terrible and it was imbalanced. This is a more Yeah,

1199
01:02:33,933 --> 01:02:37,533
Speaker 21: I love it the way. It's just it's just great.

1200
01:02:37,813 --> 01:02:42,173
Speaker 21: You know, a more women are getting recognized now. Wolf's

1201
01:02:42,853 --> 01:02:48,773
Speaker 21: like Tamia Teria, remember I remember her, And yes, more

1202
01:02:48,813 --> 01:02:52,013
Speaker 21: women are doing much better. And that other lady for

1203
01:02:52,133 --> 01:02:57,533
Speaker 21: the Education department, she's on quite a bit now and

1204
01:02:58,373 --> 01:03:00,973
Speaker 21: you know she's a very strong person. She's in the

1205
01:03:01,133 --> 01:03:05,733
Speaker 21: National Party, so you know, yes, no, I think that

1206
01:03:05,973 --> 01:03:10,453
Speaker 21: more women are being heard and some toe it's just,

1207
01:03:11,893 --> 01:03:15,453
Speaker 21: you know, the other side was just it was ruled

1208
01:03:15,613 --> 01:03:18,093
Speaker 21: by men most most of the time.

1209
01:03:18,653 --> 01:03:21,093
Speaker 3: And then you don't like me, you don't like me,

1210
01:03:21,133 --> 01:03:23,893
Speaker 3: and Diane, No, I'm.

1211
01:03:23,853 --> 01:03:26,253
Speaker 21: Just sort of like, well, it was unjust the way

1212
01:03:26,333 --> 01:03:26,613
Speaker 21: it was.

1213
01:03:27,013 --> 01:03:27,893
Speaker 3: Do you think it should You.

1214
01:03:27,973 --> 01:03:31,293
Speaker 2: Think that Parliament should be fifty to fifty men women?

1215
01:03:31,733 --> 01:03:34,133
Speaker 2: Would you support that? Being that in the electoral system

1216
01:03:34,213 --> 01:03:35,173
Speaker 2: that it was fifty to.

1217
01:03:35,173 --> 01:03:38,573
Speaker 21: Fifty fifty fifty, well.

1218
01:03:40,053 --> 01:03:42,573
Speaker 2: Have to be fifty slightly more. I think I think

1219
01:03:42,653 --> 01:03:45,813
Speaker 2: as men die younger that there's slightly more women. So

1220
01:03:45,933 --> 01:03:49,093
Speaker 2: it was going to absolutely represent the demographic precisely, to

1221
01:03:49,213 --> 01:03:52,133
Speaker 2: be just slightly maybe half a percent more women.

1222
01:03:53,413 --> 01:03:57,533
Speaker 21: Yes, I could go along with I could go everywhere.

1223
01:03:58,013 --> 01:04:04,813
Speaker 3: All right, all right, that's enough MMP gender m m MPG.

1224
01:04:06,053 --> 01:04:06,373
Speaker 5: Nicely.

1225
01:04:06,413 --> 01:04:10,373
Speaker 3: Don remember proportional gender the gender balance.

1226
01:04:10,453 --> 01:04:13,173
Speaker 5: That was very quick, mate. Well i'm mpg B all right,

1227
01:04:13,253 --> 01:04:16,333
Speaker 5: we'll put that into the ecronyms. Thank you very much, Diane.

1228
01:04:16,373 --> 01:04:19,293
Speaker 5: Lovely to hear from you, Pete. What do you reckon?

1229
01:04:21,813 --> 01:04:24,653
Speaker 22: I think EMM and greson mediot hold of Leo and

1230
01:04:24,773 --> 01:04:26,293
Speaker 22: sitting him back to where he comes from.

1231
01:04:26,413 --> 01:04:28,893
Speaker 5: Oh, beata beat are you here on a you're on

1232
01:04:28,973 --> 01:04:31,253
Speaker 5: a phone call there? Mate? That sounded like what a

1233
01:04:31,293 --> 01:04:32,173
Speaker 5: spicy conversation.

1234
01:04:33,893 --> 01:04:37,053
Speaker 22: No, no, just having them on. But I'm all for MMP.

1235
01:04:37,413 --> 01:04:40,333
Speaker 22: It's a good system because you know, yeah, you don't

1236
01:04:40,373 --> 01:04:42,973
Speaker 22: want to have a dictator bit like Piggy Mole doing

1237
01:04:43,133 --> 01:04:44,653
Speaker 22: it was all his way, and know when we don't

1238
01:04:44,653 --> 01:04:47,133
Speaker 22: want to end up that situation again. I think what

1239
01:04:47,253 --> 01:04:49,813
Speaker 22: we have now, it's all over in Europe, the Netherlands

1240
01:04:49,893 --> 01:04:51,893
Speaker 22: and Quadra, a few other countries have it too. So

1241
01:04:52,293 --> 01:04:54,733
Speaker 22: I just got to bite the buller and say It's

1242
01:04:54,773 --> 01:04:57,453
Speaker 22: a good idea because what do you do you like

1243
01:04:57,533 --> 01:04:58,173
Speaker 22: the do you like.

1244
01:04:58,213 --> 01:05:01,373
Speaker 2: That all the deals that happened behind closed doors at

1245
01:05:01,373 --> 01:05:02,893
Speaker 2: the end of the election, you have the election night,

1246
01:05:02,933 --> 01:05:05,253
Speaker 2: it's been voted, but you don't know just by looking

1247
01:05:05,253 --> 01:05:08,173
Speaker 2: at the numbers, who's going to lead the country. You

1248
01:05:08,533 --> 01:05:10,613
Speaker 2: when Ston Peter's is going to knock on Jacinda's door,

1249
01:05:10,653 --> 01:05:13,693
Speaker 2: he is going to knock on Bill English's door and

1250
01:05:13,773 --> 01:05:15,813
Speaker 2: then then then decide who's going to lead you.

1251
01:05:15,893 --> 01:05:16,813
Speaker 3: You don't mind that part of it.

1252
01:05:17,933 --> 01:05:20,253
Speaker 22: No, it's all part of it. You know, it's all

1253
01:05:20,333 --> 01:05:23,093
Speaker 22: down negotiation, negotiation when the end of the day in it.

1254
01:05:23,213 --> 01:05:26,613
Speaker 22: So everybody blames old Winnie of what happened when he

1255
01:05:26,773 --> 01:05:28,453
Speaker 22: when he got on the flavor, But he's already going

1256
01:05:28,493 --> 01:05:30,813
Speaker 22: to get a bleeding nose if we're enter the ring anyway,

1257
01:05:30,933 --> 01:05:33,493
Speaker 22: So what would you do that? So that Bill English

1258
01:05:33,533 --> 01:05:37,093
Speaker 22: had got together used as head, he might not like

1259
01:05:37,133 --> 01:05:38,893
Speaker 22: Old Winnie that much. The national is still going to events.

1260
01:05:38,933 --> 01:05:42,933
Speaker 22: I don't blame Bonny Winnie what happened in two thousand

1261
01:05:42,973 --> 01:05:44,853
Speaker 22: and seven. If people don't realize that it's not wanting.

1262
01:05:45,333 --> 01:05:47,333
Speaker 22: I'm not going to enter a ring and beating up

1263
01:05:47,373 --> 01:05:49,893
Speaker 22: before he even get into the ring. Am I that's simple?

1264
01:05:49,973 --> 01:05:52,053
Speaker 23: Really, No, No, that's not it.

1265
01:05:52,133 --> 01:05:52,973
Speaker 3: That's not a smart mood.

1266
01:05:53,733 --> 01:05:57,093
Speaker 2: But yeah, I mean, you know, as Barry Soap was

1267
01:05:57,133 --> 01:06:00,173
Speaker 2: pointing out before that, that deal with Bill English and

1268
01:06:00,333 --> 01:06:02,093
Speaker 2: when Ston Peters might have had something to do with

1269
01:06:02,253 --> 01:06:06,253
Speaker 2: the fact that Bill English voted was part of the

1270
01:06:06,373 --> 01:06:08,293
Speaker 2: movement to vote when he out of the National Plat

1271
01:06:08,853 --> 01:06:09,893
Speaker 2: quite a few years before that.

1272
01:06:10,213 --> 01:06:12,373
Speaker 3: Hey, thank you for your call, Pete. Appreciate that.

1273
01:06:12,613 --> 01:06:14,093
Speaker 5: Yeah, thank you very much. If you want to send

1274
01:06:14,133 --> 01:06:18,253
Speaker 5: a text nine two ninety two, is that number plenty

1275
01:06:18,493 --> 01:06:22,933
Speaker 5: coming through that one? Oh, we have already read that one.

1276
01:06:23,013 --> 01:06:26,133
Speaker 2: I would like to see the current mixed member disportionate

1277
01:06:26,493 --> 01:06:29,773
Speaker 2: all right, I would like to see the current mixed

1278
01:06:29,933 --> 01:06:34,093
Speaker 2: member disproportionate system replaced with a simple direct proportionate system.

1279
01:06:34,413 --> 01:06:36,333
Speaker 2: For each one percent of the national vote, you get

1280
01:06:36,373 --> 01:06:39,133
Speaker 2: one seat. Some people disagree with that because that would

1281
01:06:39,253 --> 01:06:42,533
Speaker 2: enable the crazies to get in and distable parliament. Well

1282
01:06:42,573 --> 01:06:44,333
Speaker 2: look at what we have now, tom So if you

1283
01:06:44,413 --> 01:06:46,813
Speaker 2: can rustle up one percent, then you get a seat.

1284
01:06:46,853 --> 01:06:48,973
Speaker 2: So there's one hundred percent one hundred seats in parliament

1285
01:06:49,533 --> 01:06:51,573
Speaker 2: or two hundred or whatever percentage you work out it

1286
01:06:51,733 --> 01:06:54,133
Speaker 2: is and if you get if you get if there's

1287
01:06:54,133 --> 01:06:56,573
Speaker 2: one hundred seats, yep, you get one percent, you're in.

1288
01:06:57,013 --> 01:06:58,533
Speaker 5: Should we just give it a try for one year

1289
01:06:58,573 --> 01:06:59,293
Speaker 5: and see how it goes.

1290
01:06:59,453 --> 01:07:02,413
Speaker 2: You get seventeen, but I guess you miss out on

1291
01:07:02,453 --> 01:07:04,693
Speaker 2: the halves. Yeah, so you might get someone that gets

1292
01:07:04,773 --> 01:07:07,493
Speaker 2: seventeen point nine to nine percent.

1293
01:07:07,573 --> 01:07:08,493
Speaker 3: They don't get to that.

1294
01:07:08,493 --> 01:07:11,653
Speaker 2: Workout you round up Swedish rounding, you'd end up losing

1295
01:07:11,693 --> 01:07:14,533
Speaker 2: a certain percentage of seats like it wouldn't end up

1296
01:07:14,573 --> 01:07:16,173
Speaker 2: being You'd have to have a system to deal with

1297
01:07:16,213 --> 01:07:18,533
Speaker 2: the fact that people aren't going to be getting exactly

1298
01:07:18,653 --> 01:07:21,933
Speaker 2: one percent, ten percent, fifteen percent. They're all going to

1299
01:07:22,013 --> 01:07:25,533
Speaker 2: get percentages of that or decimal points of that. Yeah,

1300
01:07:25,773 --> 01:07:28,133
Speaker 2: therefore that vote would kind of disappear and you wouldn't

1301
01:07:28,173 --> 01:07:29,453
Speaker 2: end up with one hundred seats, would you.

1302
01:07:29,613 --> 01:07:29,773
Speaker 24: Yeah?

1303
01:07:29,893 --> 01:07:31,373
Speaker 5: Very true. It sounded easy.

1304
01:07:31,613 --> 01:07:33,573
Speaker 2: Yeah, so there would have to be It would be

1305
01:07:33,653 --> 01:07:35,933
Speaker 2: a little bit more complex than just what percent did

1306
01:07:36,013 --> 01:07:36,253
Speaker 2: you get?

1307
01:07:36,453 --> 01:07:38,573
Speaker 5: It would be pretty one hundred. Yeah, I mean that

1308
01:07:38,693 --> 01:07:41,013
Speaker 5: the parties that would come through at one percent. Holy

1309
01:07:41,693 --> 01:07:44,293
Speaker 5: h but fair idea O eight on hundred are.

1310
01:07:44,293 --> 01:07:46,653
Speaker 2: You could rustle up one percent of the vote Tyler

1311
01:07:46,733 --> 01:07:48,773
Speaker 2: with a Tyler Adams agenda.

1312
01:07:48,413 --> 01:07:50,493
Speaker 5: How many people is that? Would you vote for me?

1313
01:07:50,573 --> 01:07:50,773
Speaker 10: Mate?

1314
01:07:51,293 --> 01:07:53,253
Speaker 5: I'd vote for you, buddy, Thank you mate. Yeah, I

1315
01:07:53,293 --> 01:07:55,173
Speaker 5: think I get pretty close to zero point two percent.

1316
01:07:55,253 --> 01:07:58,093
Speaker 5: Maybe oh one hundred and eighty ten eighty is the

1317
01:07:58,253 --> 01:08:01,013
Speaker 5: number to goal. It is eighteen to three.

1318
01:08:01,173 --> 01:08:04,573
Speaker 3: Back in the mow, the issues that affect.

1319
01:08:04,293 --> 01:08:06,613
Speaker 11: You and if it have fun along the way. Matt

1320
01:08:06,693 --> 01:08:08,653
Speaker 11: Heath and Tyler Adams afternoon.

1321
01:08:08,493 --> 01:08:13,173
Speaker 5: Excus talk afternoon too. So we're talking about the MMP system.

1322
01:08:13,373 --> 01:08:15,693
Speaker 5: It's almost thirty years since it came into play in

1323
01:08:15,773 --> 01:08:18,053
Speaker 5: New Zealand as a time for a bit of a rejig.

1324
01:08:18,572 --> 01:08:22,293
Speaker 5: Can get your thoughts, Harry, you reckon, it's gone pretty well.

1325
01:08:23,653 --> 01:08:23,893
Speaker 14: I do.

1326
01:08:25,812 --> 01:08:26,452
Speaker 11: In my view.

1327
01:08:27,572 --> 01:08:29,772
Speaker 25: What we don't want is what's going on in the

1328
01:08:29,933 --> 01:08:34,572
Speaker 25: United States where one side of the argument has so

1329
01:08:34,732 --> 01:08:40,532
Speaker 25: much dominance that their whole political system is under threat

1330
01:08:40,893 --> 01:08:44,133
Speaker 25: by the MMP has done in New Zealand as it's

1331
01:08:45,412 --> 01:08:50,612
Speaker 25: disabled the extreme left and the extreme right. If you

1332
01:08:50,692 --> 01:08:53,333
Speaker 25: look at the influence of what New Zealand First has done,

1333
01:08:53,652 --> 01:08:58,253
Speaker 25: they held the Labor Party back from heading off down

1334
01:08:58,333 --> 01:09:03,093
Speaker 25: the Greens track, and in the if you look at

1335
01:09:03,093 --> 01:09:06,253
Speaker 25: the right side of the argument. I think they've been

1336
01:09:07,253 --> 01:09:11,772
Speaker 25: immediating some of the more extreme issues of act although

1337
01:09:11,853 --> 01:09:15,372
Speaker 25: actors improved a lot in the last several years. Myself,

1338
01:09:15,772 --> 01:09:21,293
Speaker 25: I'm a person who swings around the middle, and I

1339
01:09:21,412 --> 01:09:24,612
Speaker 25: think that's the intelligent position because it means you're thinking

1340
01:09:24,692 --> 01:09:29,213
Speaker 25: about what's on offer all of the time. The only

1341
01:09:29,293 --> 01:09:32,492
Speaker 25: thing that I would say that's wrong with MEMP is

1342
01:09:32,612 --> 01:09:39,213
Speaker 25: that I believe that all infrastructure votes should be conscient votes.

1343
01:09:40,333 --> 01:09:42,612
Speaker 25: And I say that because that would require all of

1344
01:09:42,692 --> 01:09:43,812
Speaker 25: the parties to consult.

1345
01:09:43,933 --> 01:09:46,692
Speaker 3: Sorry, Harry, what votes should be conscious votes?

1346
01:09:46,732 --> 01:09:53,012
Speaker 26: All votes, all infrastructure votes? Okay, right, yeah, right, because

1347
01:09:53,173 --> 01:09:57,772
Speaker 26: what actually happens is that with our infrastructure, the favor

1348
01:09:57,853 --> 01:10:02,612
Speaker 26: Party was inmates and decisions, the National Party gets.

1349
01:10:02,452 --> 01:10:04,892
Speaker 25: In and unwinds them. The obvious one is the ferries

1350
01:10:05,492 --> 01:10:09,253
Speaker 25: across cock Strait. But it you know, those sorts of

1351
01:10:09,293 --> 01:10:12,012
Speaker 25: things wouldn't happen if they were conscious votes and parties

1352
01:10:12,053 --> 01:10:12,852
Speaker 25: had to work together.

1353
01:10:12,973 --> 01:10:13,692
Speaker 18: Did you think it?

1354
01:10:13,812 --> 01:10:15,293
Speaker 2: Do you think that that can be a bit of

1355
01:10:15,333 --> 01:10:17,532
Speaker 2: a problem though with m MP, where you end up

1356
01:10:17,652 --> 01:10:21,412
Speaker 2: just getting one opinion per party as opposed to first

1357
01:10:21,492 --> 01:10:25,213
Speaker 2: past the post when you know a different electorate you know,

1358
01:10:25,412 --> 01:10:28,572
Speaker 2: like the electorate that's defferentely getting the fairies. Either side

1359
01:10:28,612 --> 01:10:32,213
Speaker 2: would would campaign very strongly from a perspective of being

1360
01:10:32,692 --> 01:10:36,293
Speaker 2: the MP for those areas and as opposed to you

1361
01:10:36,612 --> 01:10:39,093
Speaker 2: just have to take the Labor line, you have to

1362
01:10:39,133 --> 01:10:41,732
Speaker 2: take the National line, the New Zealand First line or

1363
01:10:41,812 --> 01:10:44,613
Speaker 2: the Act line. There's not really a diversity of opinions

1364
01:10:45,452 --> 01:10:46,652
Speaker 2: across Parliament anymore.

1365
01:10:47,692 --> 01:10:50,812
Speaker 25: Well, that's my point. If the first past the pope

1366
01:10:51,213 --> 01:10:55,612
Speaker 25: post there's only one party and power and sometimes yes, but.

1367
01:10:56,013 --> 01:10:58,372
Speaker 2: They have to in first past post. You you know,

1368
01:10:58,692 --> 01:11:02,372
Speaker 2: in first past the post, say, for example, within the party,

1369
01:11:02,412 --> 01:11:04,293
Speaker 2: you'd have a left wing. You'd have a left wing

1370
01:11:04,333 --> 01:11:05,812
Speaker 2: of the party and a right wing of the party.

1371
01:11:06,213 --> 01:11:08,293
Speaker 2: And you know, in a first past the post system,

1372
01:11:08,372 --> 01:11:10,692
Speaker 2: these politicians that might be going off into a smaller

1373
01:11:10,732 --> 01:11:14,253
Speaker 2: party would be would choose to be part of the

1374
01:11:14,293 --> 01:11:17,412
Speaker 2: bigger party, but advocate within that party for their side

1375
01:11:17,412 --> 01:11:18,333
Speaker 2: of political spectrum.

1376
01:11:18,333 --> 01:11:19,253
Speaker 3: If you see what I'm saying.

1377
01:11:20,093 --> 01:11:23,372
Speaker 25: But we do see what you're saying. Yeah, but the

1378
01:11:23,532 --> 01:11:27,812
Speaker 25: problem with your version is it's either a right wing

1379
01:11:27,893 --> 01:11:30,933
Speaker 25: party or a left wing party that you know, so

1380
01:11:31,053 --> 01:11:33,372
Speaker 25: you have the same problem. You've only getting one of you,

1381
01:11:33,973 --> 01:11:36,612
Speaker 25: if you have a conscience, those on it, all of

1382
01:11:36,692 --> 01:11:42,853
Speaker 25: the parties in Parliament, and I'm only restricting this to infrastructure,

1383
01:11:43,293 --> 01:11:45,652
Speaker 25: all of the parties in parliament. I really have to

1384
01:11:45,812 --> 01:11:49,972
Speaker 25: agree for you to get a decent infrastructure decision, which

1385
01:11:50,732 --> 01:11:55,853
Speaker 25: should the parliament change, is more likely to stay in place.

1386
01:11:56,253 --> 01:11:59,093
Speaker 2: Right, I see what you're saying. And is that a

1387
01:11:59,173 --> 01:12:00,133
Speaker 2: confidential vote?

1388
01:12:01,652 --> 01:12:03,333
Speaker 24: Yeah, well, I.

1389
01:12:03,692 --> 01:12:06,213
Speaker 25: Wouldn't worry to me whether it's confidential or public. You know,

1390
01:12:06,333 --> 01:12:09,092
Speaker 25: people have to see where they stand because.

1391
01:12:08,893 --> 01:12:11,452
Speaker 2: We're better confidentially though, wouldn't that because you'd have you'd

1392
01:12:11,492 --> 01:12:13,213
Speaker 2: have a party whip going around and going you're going

1393
01:12:13,293 --> 01:12:14,852
Speaker 2: to you'll get it, You'll get it made if you

1394
01:12:14,973 --> 01:12:16,213
Speaker 2: vote against the party lost.

1395
01:12:17,372 --> 01:12:19,333
Speaker 25: Yeah, well, you know, I mean that's a load of

1396
01:12:19,372 --> 01:12:21,732
Speaker 25: crap again, isn't it. You know, the reality of it

1397
01:12:21,973 --> 01:12:24,812
Speaker 25: is that having to tow the party line all the

1398
01:12:24,893 --> 01:12:29,373
Speaker 25: time is leading, in my view, to you know, controlled

1399
01:12:29,412 --> 01:12:30,692
Speaker 25: by the right of the left.

1400
01:12:32,093 --> 01:12:32,253
Speaker 10: You know.

1401
01:12:33,412 --> 01:12:37,612
Speaker 25: You know, my biggest skier scary situation would be a

1402
01:12:37,732 --> 01:12:43,133
Speaker 25: labor Green's coalition forming government. You know, it wouldn't be

1403
01:12:43,253 --> 01:12:48,812
Speaker 25: quite as bad as the National Act thing that In

1404
01:12:48,973 --> 01:12:52,133
Speaker 25: both cases though under M m P you know, I

1405
01:12:52,253 --> 01:12:55,253
Speaker 25: have to say that Winston and his mates have actually

1406
01:12:55,333 --> 01:12:58,492
Speaker 25: managed to a miligorate the worst of both sides, and

1407
01:12:58,652 --> 01:13:02,492
Speaker 25: it's given us a more steady or more centrist position

1408
01:13:02,652 --> 01:13:03,293
Speaker 25: down the middle.

1409
01:13:03,612 --> 01:13:05,772
Speaker 2: That's interesting, So that that is something because that's the

1410
01:13:05,772 --> 01:13:07,452
Speaker 2: other side of it, because one side of people are

1411
01:13:07,492 --> 01:13:09,972
Speaker 2: saying Winston Peter he gained the system and he has.

1412
01:13:10,492 --> 01:13:14,732
Speaker 2: He has destroyed the electoral process over the over since

1413
01:13:15,013 --> 01:13:18,053
Speaker 2: nineteen ninety six, and then other people like youself say

1414
01:13:18,333 --> 01:13:21,293
Speaker 2: that he's just by virtue of who he is, he's

1415
01:13:21,372 --> 01:13:23,452
Speaker 2: tempered the excesses of all the parties.

1416
01:13:23,133 --> 01:13:23,812
Speaker 3: Over those time.

1417
01:13:24,492 --> 01:13:26,412
Speaker 2: So do you think that would continue if there wasn't

1418
01:13:26,412 --> 01:13:29,093
Speaker 2: a Winston Peters? If there, you know, have we been

1419
01:13:29,133 --> 01:13:32,052
Speaker 2: lucky to have Winston Peters could have been a different

1420
01:13:32,173 --> 01:13:33,412
Speaker 2: a different populist than there.

1421
01:13:35,253 --> 01:13:37,692
Speaker 25: We have been lucky to have Winston Peters. But it's

1422
01:13:37,772 --> 01:13:40,933
Speaker 25: more likely to happen in the MMP system than the

1423
01:13:41,013 --> 01:13:45,572
Speaker 25: first past the post system. The reality of it is,

1424
01:13:47,013 --> 01:13:50,612
Speaker 25: you know, Winston has ameliorated the extremes of both sides.

1425
01:13:51,772 --> 01:13:54,133
Speaker 5: Yeah, I mean he's called himself the handbreak Winston on

1426
01:13:54,253 --> 01:13:56,812
Speaker 5: some of those stupid ideas, But last stupid ideas according

1427
01:13:56,812 --> 01:13:58,933
Speaker 5: to Winston, and I think many people would agree that

1428
01:13:59,093 --> 01:14:03,372
Speaker 5: perhaps some of the ideas the Labor Party had weren't

1429
01:14:04,452 --> 01:14:06,133
Speaker 5: weren't going to end up too well. And I think

1430
01:14:06,173 --> 01:14:08,773
Speaker 5: look to be fair, we saw that when they stopping

1431
01:14:08,853 --> 01:14:10,932
Speaker 5: with more than fifty percent of the vote and had

1432
01:14:10,973 --> 01:14:13,412
Speaker 5: total power, and some ideas that were made after that.

1433
01:14:13,612 --> 01:14:16,772
Speaker 2: We'll judge about heaven of the next election. I think

1434
01:14:17,652 --> 01:14:19,093
Speaker 2: people missed the handbreak a little bit.

1435
01:14:19,213 --> 01:14:21,613
Speaker 5: Yeah, I think you're right, judging.

1436
01:14:21,412 --> 01:14:23,852
Speaker 2: How swiftly they were bundled out after they'd been able

1437
01:14:23,893 --> 01:14:26,652
Speaker 2: to do whatever they want. That people did miss their

1438
01:14:26,732 --> 01:14:29,852
Speaker 2: their handbrake. A bunch of people are texting and won't

1439
01:14:29,893 --> 01:14:34,652
Speaker 2: you please mention STV single transable vote. Okay, I'll mention

1440
01:14:34,772 --> 01:14:36,013
Speaker 2: that next or this is going to be good.

1441
01:14:36,133 --> 01:14:37,093
Speaker 5: It is nine to three.

1442
01:14:37,173 --> 01:14:38,692
Speaker 3: Well, I don't really have anything to mention about it.

1443
01:14:38,732 --> 01:14:41,012
Speaker 3: I'll just mention it, okay, but I'll be listening again.

1444
01:14:41,053 --> 01:14:41,612
Speaker 5: I'm interested.

1445
01:14:42,173 --> 01:14:42,972
Speaker 3: It's going to be amazing.

1446
01:14:43,093 --> 01:14:43,372
Speaker 20: It is.

1447
01:14:45,452 --> 01:14:47,812
Speaker 1: The issues that affect you and a bit of fun

1448
01:14:47,933 --> 01:14:51,372
Speaker 1: along the way. Matt Heath and Tyler Adams Afternoons News

1449
01:14:51,492 --> 01:14:52,093
Speaker 1: Talks V.

1450
01:14:53,333 --> 01:14:56,572
Speaker 5: Very good afternoon, Jue. It is six to three, so.

1451
01:14:56,572 --> 01:15:00,253
Speaker 2: It'll be no discussion without MMP in first past the

1452
01:15:00,293 --> 01:15:02,812
Speaker 2: post if we didn't mention STV, which was also an

1453
01:15:02,812 --> 01:15:06,253
Speaker 2: option in the referendum back in the mid nineties that

1454
01:15:06,333 --> 01:15:06,932
Speaker 2: got us MMP.

1455
01:15:08,412 --> 01:15:08,812
Speaker 3: It works.

1456
01:15:10,173 --> 01:15:13,253
Speaker 2: It's used in some of our local body elections voter

1457
01:15:13,253 --> 01:15:16,053
Speaker 2: as rank candidates and multi member electorates one, two, and

1458
01:15:16,133 --> 01:15:20,253
Speaker 2: three seats allocated by preference until all are filled, ensuring

1459
01:15:20,333 --> 01:15:24,133
Speaker 2: proportional outcomes within each district. The problem with it is

1460
01:15:24,372 --> 01:15:27,253
Speaker 2: it takes ages for people to explain it to other people. Yeah,

1461
01:15:27,253 --> 01:15:30,892
Speaker 2: you know, MMP is pretty complicated, but s TV. I mean,

1462
01:15:30,933 --> 01:15:32,893
Speaker 2: I guess when mp first came and everyone was I

1463
01:15:32,933 --> 01:15:35,253
Speaker 2: going to get it, I don't get it. And then

1464
01:15:35,333 --> 01:15:37,293
Speaker 2: and there's people that have never you know, it took

1465
01:15:37,293 --> 01:15:39,572
Speaker 2: a long time before people voted strategically in MMP.

1466
01:15:39,812 --> 01:15:40,372
Speaker 5: Right, good point.

1467
01:15:40,452 --> 01:15:42,492
Speaker 2: Yeah, if He's TV had been in there by now

1468
01:15:43,532 --> 01:15:44,612
Speaker 2: thirty years later, we would have.

1469
01:15:44,612 --> 01:15:45,053
Speaker 3: Worked it out.

1470
01:15:45,213 --> 01:15:45,812
Speaker 5: Yeah, exactly.

1471
01:15:45,893 --> 01:15:49,452
Speaker 2: But it is quite hard to explain and quite hard

1472
01:15:49,532 --> 01:15:53,973
Speaker 2: to count on the night, and it arguably weakens party accountability,

1473
01:15:54,053 --> 01:15:57,333
Speaker 2: I guess, because you know, it shifts the focus to

1474
01:15:58,333 --> 01:16:01,572
Speaker 2: the individuals that you're voting for and ranking.

1475
01:16:02,253 --> 01:16:05,732
Speaker 5: Yeah, nothing's perfect. Just when I thought you had it sorted.

1476
01:16:06,053 --> 01:16:10,053
Speaker 5: There's always a flaw in the system. Got time for Chris, Yeah, Chris,

1477
01:16:10,053 --> 01:16:11,173
Speaker 5: we've got about ninety seconds.

1478
01:16:12,412 --> 01:16:13,612
Speaker 20: I'll rush through this real quick.

1479
01:16:13,692 --> 01:16:15,972
Speaker 23: So I live at Australia and live in a different

1480
01:16:16,333 --> 01:16:20,772
Speaker 23: system to New Zealand, and the situation here is like

1481
01:16:20,933 --> 01:16:25,372
Speaker 23: that gentleman said, the second and third places on the

1482
01:16:25,452 --> 01:16:30,692
Speaker 23: podium can actually offset the winner. So for example, if

1483
01:16:31,333 --> 01:16:34,133
Speaker 23: National win you know, forty percent of the vote, and

1484
01:16:34,213 --> 01:16:38,213
Speaker 23: then the Labor and the Green combined in this electorate

1485
01:16:38,973 --> 01:16:43,372
Speaker 23: at the sixty then whoever was the first place person

1486
01:16:43,452 --> 01:16:48,213
Speaker 23: will get their preference and then be the seat holder

1487
01:16:48,333 --> 01:16:50,133
Speaker 23: for that. And that's that's why I don't like the

1488
01:16:50,173 --> 01:16:54,253
Speaker 23: Australian system because it's very rare that you get an

1489
01:16:54,412 --> 01:16:58,893
Speaker 23: MP who might be a local champion into parliament. So

1490
01:16:59,772 --> 01:17:02,133
Speaker 23: that's why I like the MMP that we have back home,

1491
01:17:02,173 --> 01:17:05,492
Speaker 23: because we still have the first past the post part

1492
01:17:06,333 --> 01:17:10,052
Speaker 23: when it comes through voting for you your local candidate. Yeah,

1493
01:17:10,293 --> 01:17:13,293
Speaker 23: so you've got eight of them. Well, you know, if

1494
01:17:13,333 --> 01:17:15,732
Speaker 23: you win thirty percent and nobody else passes you, you

1495
01:17:15,893 --> 01:17:18,492
Speaker 23: get that. I like that, And then the party vote

1496
01:17:18,532 --> 01:17:20,972
Speaker 23: gives you the opportunity to make sure that you want

1497
01:17:21,053 --> 01:17:24,293
Speaker 23: that party in power because let's say, for example, in

1498
01:17:24,372 --> 01:17:29,452
Speaker 23: my local literate here, I really like the labor person

1499
01:17:30,013 --> 01:17:33,133
Speaker 23: as a person, but I probably wouldn't have a vote

1500
01:17:33,213 --> 01:17:34,492
Speaker 23: for that as a party.

1501
01:17:34,933 --> 01:17:37,333
Speaker 5: Yeah, sounds complex, Chris. Thank you very much for out

1502
01:17:37,412 --> 01:17:40,852
Speaker 5: of time, but appreciate your call very much. Thank you.

1503
01:17:42,013 --> 01:17:42,612
Speaker 3: Yeah, well, you go.

1504
01:17:42,692 --> 01:17:44,892
Speaker 2: A lot of people hate UMP, a lot of people

1505
01:17:44,973 --> 01:17:48,293
Speaker 2: love it, but it seems no one wants more politicians

1506
01:17:48,333 --> 01:17:48,852
Speaker 2: in parliament.

1507
01:17:48,973 --> 01:17:51,572
Speaker 5: Yeah we can all agree on Yeah, thankfully we can

1508
01:17:51,652 --> 01:17:54,772
Speaker 5: agree on something. Thank you very much to everyone who

1509
01:17:54,933 --> 01:17:58,333
Speaker 5: phoned and text on that one. Just a reminder, in

1510
01:17:58,612 --> 01:18:01,293
Speaker 5: about thirty five minutes we will have Gareth Abdena on

1511
01:18:01,372 --> 01:18:04,452
Speaker 5: the show, Employment Lawyer taking your calls and questions. Get

1512
01:18:04,532 --> 01:18:05,972
Speaker 5: an early news is next.

1513
01:18:07,812 --> 01:18:12,132
Speaker 1: You go home for Instateful and Entertaining Talk. It's Mattie

1514
01:18:12,372 --> 01:18:15,052
Speaker 1: and Taylor Adams afternoons.

1515
01:18:14,612 --> 01:18:15,892
Speaker 11: On news Talk Sebby.

1516
01:18:16,893 --> 01:18:20,012
Speaker 5: Very good afternoon shere it is seven past three. Really

1517
01:18:20,053 --> 01:18:20,972
Speaker 5: good of your companies.

1518
01:18:20,973 --> 01:18:22,972
Speaker 2: Always Now at the start of the show, I see

1519
01:18:23,253 --> 01:18:26,093
Speaker 2: no spoilers are nine to nine two? What's happening with

1520
01:18:26,293 --> 01:18:30,133
Speaker 2: the baseball you did? And Dodger Stadium and Los Angeles

1521
01:18:30,293 --> 01:18:34,973
Speaker 2: The Blue Jays versus the Dodgers in Game four of

1522
01:18:35,053 --> 01:18:37,852
Speaker 2: the World Series. The Dodgers currently up two to one

1523
01:18:37,933 --> 01:18:40,053
Speaker 2: in the series. Exciting, and I was because I wanted

1524
01:18:40,053 --> 01:18:41,812
Speaker 2: to go home and watch it, right yep. But then

1525
01:18:41,853 --> 01:18:45,812
Speaker 2: the bloody news of course, you know, just got spoiled

1526
01:18:45,853 --> 01:18:49,492
Speaker 2: in the news sports. Who would I mean, baseball is

1527
01:18:49,492 --> 01:18:51,333
Speaker 2: getting so popular in New Zealand that it makes the

1528
01:18:52,053 --> 01:18:55,372
Speaker 2: sports news, you know, the developments in Game four of

1529
01:18:55,412 --> 01:18:57,333
Speaker 2: the World Series, and in the text machine so many

1530
01:18:57,372 --> 01:18:59,372
Speaker 2: people earlier and before I shut it down.

1531
01:18:59,532 --> 01:19:02,293
Speaker 3: Yeah, we're texting in how much they follow baseball, how

1532
01:19:02,333 --> 01:19:03,132
Speaker 3: much they have baseball.

1533
01:19:03,173 --> 01:19:05,492
Speaker 5: But you know, now I know, now you know, and

1534
01:19:05,572 --> 01:19:08,253
Speaker 5: now I'm nervous, and it's on every telly out there

1535
01:19:08,492 --> 01:19:10,093
Speaker 5: in the sports department. So I saw you trying to

1536
01:19:10,173 --> 01:19:13,173
Speaker 5: avert your eyes as you're walking through to do your business,

1537
01:19:13,213 --> 01:19:13,692
Speaker 5: so to speak.

1538
01:19:14,053 --> 01:19:17,932
Speaker 2: Anyway, let's go Dodgers, come on as code Todches beat

1539
01:19:17,973 --> 01:19:21,612
Speaker 2: these nasty Canadians with their nasty fans, with their nasty

1540
01:19:21,812 --> 01:19:22,692
Speaker 2: mean chance.

1541
01:19:24,452 --> 01:19:26,333
Speaker 5: I'd love putting it into the Canadians. But that is

1542
01:19:26,452 --> 01:19:28,612
Speaker 5: very exciting right into this one. This is going to

1543
01:19:28,652 --> 01:19:32,772
Speaker 5: be an interesting discussion. So Rocket Lab celebrating twenty years.

1544
01:19:32,853 --> 01:19:34,972
Speaker 5: Can you believe it? In operation this week the company

1545
01:19:35,093 --> 01:19:38,412
Speaker 5: has become the fastest in history to launch fifty rockets

1546
01:19:38,772 --> 01:19:41,173
Speaker 5: into space. How good It's now valued it over twenty

1547
01:19:41,253 --> 01:19:45,532
Speaker 5: billion dollars. Rocket Labs portfolio includes missions for NASA and

1548
01:19:45,612 --> 01:19:48,133
Speaker 5: the US Air Force Space Command, which is me.

1549
01:19:48,732 --> 01:19:51,372
Speaker 2: It's so cool when you know, I was a kid,

1550
01:19:51,532 --> 01:19:55,013
Speaker 2: if I wouldn't have ever imagined that New Zealand could

1551
01:19:55,053 --> 01:19:57,372
Speaker 2: get into the space industry, that we would ever be

1552
01:19:57,652 --> 01:20:02,092
Speaker 2: even in the conversation, let alone, you know, kicking ass globally.

1553
01:20:02,213 --> 01:20:03,253
Speaker 5: It's unreda space.

1554
01:20:03,732 --> 01:20:06,372
Speaker 3: It's something that we should all just be so extremely

1555
01:20:06,412 --> 01:20:06,732
Speaker 3: proud of.

1556
01:20:06,933 --> 01:20:09,973
Speaker 5: Absolutely so, Sir Beck was on with Mike Hoskin this

1557
01:20:10,093 --> 01:20:12,053
Speaker 5: morning to have a chat about those twenty years, but

1558
01:20:12,133 --> 01:20:15,372
Speaker 5: he was asked about the impression of KIWI workers internationally here.

1559
01:20:15,412 --> 01:20:19,173
Speaker 6: It is true that Kiwis are different in terms of

1560
01:20:19,293 --> 01:20:21,333
Speaker 6: work ethic, their view of the world that you can

1561
01:20:21,372 --> 01:20:23,493
Speaker 6: spot at Kiwi and that's why a lot of internationals

1562
01:20:23,572 --> 01:20:24,132
Speaker 6: like Kiwis.

1563
01:20:25,213 --> 01:20:28,212
Speaker 7: Absolutely but as for the positive end for the negative,

1564
01:20:29,013 --> 01:20:31,692
Speaker 7: you know, the one thing that I'm always banging on

1565
01:20:31,812 --> 01:20:34,093
Speaker 7: with Kiwis is that we just don't think big enough,

1566
01:20:34,532 --> 01:20:36,333
Speaker 7: like I can go to America and stand up in

1567
01:20:36,372 --> 01:20:37,932
Speaker 7: a room and saying, and I build a bigger space

1568
01:20:37,973 --> 01:20:40,412
Speaker 7: company in the world, and everybody cheers. I do the

1569
01:20:40,452 --> 01:20:42,492
Speaker 7: same thing in the room in New Zealand and everybody

1570
01:20:42,572 --> 01:20:44,852
Speaker 7: sort of goes, oh, I don't know about that, you

1571
01:20:44,933 --> 01:20:47,572
Speaker 7: know what I mean. So that's one of the biggest

1572
01:20:47,612 --> 01:20:49,972
Speaker 7: issues that we have in New Zealand, just like say

1573
01:20:50,053 --> 01:20:52,452
Speaker 7: bigger and be more ambitious and get after it.

1574
01:20:53,013 --> 01:20:54,173
Speaker 5: It's a nice line, isn't it.

1575
01:20:54,572 --> 01:20:54,772
Speaker 10: Yeah.

1576
01:20:54,933 --> 01:20:55,933
Speaker 3: I think there is a bit of that.

1577
01:20:55,973 --> 01:20:57,372
Speaker 2: I don't know if there was always that way in

1578
01:20:57,412 --> 01:21:00,012
Speaker 2: New Zealand, that there was just this muttering and people

1579
01:21:00,093 --> 01:21:03,532
Speaker 2: being celebrated for coming up for reasons why things can't happen,

1580
01:21:04,452 --> 01:21:07,372
Speaker 2: just not being willing, not being willing to think big.

1581
01:21:07,692 --> 01:21:07,892
Speaker 24: Yeah.

1582
01:21:08,412 --> 01:21:09,812
Speaker 2: Talked about this on the show Before You Think about

1583
01:21:09,812 --> 01:21:12,572
Speaker 2: Bruce McLaren for Nomble. You know he was I'm going

1584
01:21:12,612 --> 01:21:15,772
Speaker 2: to build race cars yep, and you know I'm going

1585
01:21:15,853 --> 01:21:17,213
Speaker 2: to enter them in Formula one.

1586
01:21:17,812 --> 01:21:19,812
Speaker 5: And he didn't care. He just pushed on through and

1587
01:21:19,933 --> 01:21:21,333
Speaker 5: said if you don't think I can do it with

1588
01:21:21,412 --> 01:21:23,452
Speaker 5: stuff you because I don't need you on Bruce McLaren,

1589
01:21:23,492 --> 01:21:25,452
Speaker 5: and I'll do it myself. And same with Peter Beg.

1590
01:21:25,612 --> 01:21:27,173
Speaker 5: But it is it feels like and this is a

1591
01:21:27,253 --> 01:21:29,293
Speaker 5: question going to put to you, this this idea of

1592
01:21:29,372 --> 01:21:31,412
Speaker 5: a no culture in New Zealand, whether it's got worse

1593
01:21:31,452 --> 01:21:35,852
Speaker 5: or whether it's always existed, But it seems the more

1594
01:21:35,893 --> 01:21:38,492
Speaker 5: that you hear about these these people with big ideas

1595
01:21:38,652 --> 01:21:42,092
Speaker 5: and big plans, the likes of Peter Beck, for example.

1596
01:21:42,253 --> 01:21:44,053
Speaker 5: Now I think he faced that in his early days

1597
01:21:44,093 --> 01:21:46,093
Speaker 5: when he said I'm going to create this company. It's

1598
01:21:46,133 --> 01:21:47,933
Speaker 5: going to launch rockets into space and I'm going to

1599
01:21:47,973 --> 01:21:49,692
Speaker 5: do deals with NASA and all the rest of it,

1600
01:21:50,293 --> 01:21:53,053
Speaker 5: and a lot of people who are interviewing it at

1601
01:21:53,093 --> 01:21:55,133
Speaker 5: the time said, yeah, right mate, good luck to Yeah,

1602
01:21:55,253 --> 01:21:57,133
Speaker 5: you know, I like your ambition, but it's never going

1603
01:21:57,213 --> 01:21:57,452
Speaker 5: to work.

1604
01:21:57,572 --> 01:21:59,492
Speaker 2: I find it depressing if we've become like that in

1605
01:21:59,532 --> 01:22:01,372
Speaker 2: New Zealand. Maybe we've always been like this, I don't know,

1606
01:22:01,492 --> 01:22:03,372
Speaker 2: but no, I don't think we have. But it's depressing

1607
01:22:03,452 --> 01:22:05,492
Speaker 2: because if we're not the lily little country that can,

1608
01:22:05,893 --> 01:22:08,852
Speaker 2: the little country that could, then we don't have chance

1609
01:22:09,013 --> 01:22:13,293
Speaker 2: unless we dream big and go hard and risk it

1610
01:22:13,412 --> 01:22:15,933
Speaker 2: all for the big results that you know, as a

1611
01:22:15,973 --> 01:22:18,612
Speaker 2: little country, you're not gonna You're not going to remain

1612
01:22:18,772 --> 01:22:20,333
Speaker 2: one of the richest countries in the world like we

1613
01:22:20,412 --> 01:22:23,852
Speaker 2: are now that has this fantastic, you know, standard of

1614
01:22:23,893 --> 01:22:26,412
Speaker 2: living that we have. I know, we'll complain and say

1615
01:22:26,452 --> 01:22:28,732
Speaker 2: that it's hard, and yeah, sure it is, and it

1616
01:22:28,812 --> 01:22:31,133
Speaker 2: can be, but we're doing a lot better than most

1617
01:22:31,133 --> 01:22:34,133
Speaker 2: countries in the world. That that's quantifiably you know, that's

1618
01:22:34,133 --> 01:22:37,012
Speaker 2: subjectively true. So is it true as New Zealand becoming

1619
01:22:37,013 --> 01:22:39,652
Speaker 2: a nation of no If so, what can we do

1620
01:22:39,692 --> 01:22:41,772
Speaker 2: about it? And have you lived in other countries or

1621
01:22:41,812 --> 01:22:44,172
Speaker 2: work with people from other countries who have a different attitude,

1622
01:22:44,213 --> 01:22:47,573
Speaker 2: and what is that attitude? I was thinking about Americans

1623
01:22:47,933 --> 01:22:48,972
Speaker 2: and you know that's.

1624
01:22:48,853 --> 01:22:50,972
Speaker 3: What New Zealanders do. We think about Americans? It could

1625
01:22:50,973 --> 01:22:51,852
Speaker 3: be part of our problem.

1626
01:22:52,333 --> 01:22:55,093
Speaker 2: So much of our political discourse is based on what's

1627
01:22:55,093 --> 01:22:58,253
Speaker 2: happening in America because that's where the social media companies

1628
01:22:58,253 --> 01:23:00,333
Speaker 2: come out of and that's what the algorithms support.

1629
01:23:00,933 --> 01:23:04,572
Speaker 3: But I was thinking about America, and America is.

1630
01:23:04,612 --> 01:23:08,692
Speaker 2: Best when it's ethos is something like this. The worst

1631
01:23:08,732 --> 01:23:11,532
Speaker 2: thing that could happen is that something awesome doesn't happen.

1632
01:23:12,452 --> 01:23:14,612
Speaker 2: The risk for them is that the thing they are

1633
01:23:14,652 --> 01:23:19,213
Speaker 2: working on isn't spectacular doesn't turn out spectacular, that that

1634
01:23:19,412 --> 01:23:23,572
Speaker 2: risk of lameness for them has been held higher than

1635
01:23:23,572 --> 01:23:26,052
Speaker 2: all the other risks involved in trying to make something happen.

1636
01:23:26,893 --> 01:23:28,692
Speaker 2: They've been concerned for a long time that the next

1637
01:23:28,772 --> 01:23:30,852
Speaker 2: thing has to be bigger and better than the last thing,

1638
01:23:30,933 --> 01:23:33,932
Speaker 2: or it's a failure. And I sometimes think we don't

1639
01:23:33,933 --> 01:23:36,333
Speaker 2: have that in New Zealand. I don't think we have

1640
01:23:36,452 --> 01:23:39,293
Speaker 2: that mentality. We value all other potential risks ahead of

1641
01:23:39,372 --> 01:23:42,532
Speaker 2: the risk of something either not happening or being lame.

1642
01:23:42,772 --> 01:23:47,013
Speaker 5: Yeah, it's very nicely pot Someone pictures.

1643
01:23:46,692 --> 01:23:52,133
Speaker 2: Something like Beck saying, and then people just want to

1644
01:23:52,213 --> 01:23:55,652
Speaker 2: list the risks, but really the bigger risk is that

1645
01:23:56,532 --> 01:23:57,692
Speaker 2: space Lab doesn't exist.

1646
01:23:57,853 --> 01:24:00,452
Speaker 5: Yeah, yeah, very true. Oh eight one hundred eighty ten

1647
01:24:00,572 --> 01:24:02,892
Speaker 5: eighty is the number to call. Love to hear your

1648
01:24:02,973 --> 01:24:05,412
Speaker 5: thoughts on this? Are we a nation of no And

1649
01:24:05,492 --> 01:24:07,732
Speaker 5: if you're a key with you who's lived overseas, worked

1650
01:24:07,772 --> 01:24:11,653
Speaker 5: over seas, what was your impression of how they operated

1651
01:24:11,772 --> 01:24:13,892
Speaker 5: wherever you worked? Love to hear your thoughts. Nine two

1652
01:24:13,973 --> 01:24:17,133
Speaker 5: ninety two is the text number. Twelve past three. His

1653
01:24:17,253 --> 01:24:19,532
Speaker 5: talk said, be very good afternoon, ture. It is a

1654
01:24:19,652 --> 01:24:22,372
Speaker 5: quarter past three, so is New Zealand a nation of

1655
01:24:22,652 --> 01:24:25,692
Speaker 5: just saying no. It was after an interview Mike did

1656
01:24:25,772 --> 01:24:29,732
Speaker 5: with Sir Peter Beck. Rocket Lab is celebrating twenty years.

1657
01:24:29,933 --> 01:24:32,213
Speaker 5: But he mentioned in that interview that the problem with

1658
01:24:32,333 --> 01:24:34,772
Speaker 5: Kiwi's in his eyes is that if he walks into

1659
01:24:34,772 --> 01:24:36,772
Speaker 5: a room full of Americans and says I'm going to

1660
01:24:36,812 --> 01:24:39,452
Speaker 5: build a beautiful new rocket, They'll all chair and say

1661
01:24:39,532 --> 01:24:41,372
Speaker 5: well done, go get him. And if he does that

1662
01:24:41,492 --> 01:24:43,772
Speaker 5: into a room full of Kiwis, they'll say, ah, yeah,

1663
01:24:43,812 --> 01:24:45,333
Speaker 5: good luck with that. I don't think it's going to work.

1664
01:24:45,412 --> 01:24:48,053
Speaker 5: So is he right? And if you've worked overseas as

1665
01:24:48,093 --> 01:24:50,932
Speaker 5: a key, we watch the attitude like to success where

1666
01:24:50,973 --> 01:24:53,053
Speaker 5: you've operated one hundred and eighty ten eighty.

1667
01:24:53,213 --> 01:24:55,892
Speaker 2: The sext says people get social credit for stopping things.

1668
01:24:56,013 --> 01:24:58,452
Speaker 2: We're talking about social credit before the party, but not that,

1669
01:24:59,532 --> 01:25:02,652
Speaker 2: not Bruce Bethan and Gary Knapp, was that the social

1670
01:25:02,933 --> 01:25:05,652
Speaker 2: that's right, people, Gary Nap. People get social credit for

1671
01:25:05,732 --> 01:25:07,852
Speaker 2: stopping things. If they can knock you off your perch,

1672
01:25:07,933 --> 01:25:10,612
Speaker 2: they will, then they are the hero for doing it.

1673
01:25:11,253 --> 01:25:13,692
Speaker 2: This Texas is people in New Zealand celebrate stopping things,

1674
01:25:14,213 --> 01:25:17,213
Speaker 2: shutting things down, And this Texas is every meeting we

1675
01:25:17,293 --> 01:25:20,452
Speaker 2: have at work is someone putting up an idea and

1676
01:25:20,532 --> 01:25:23,013
Speaker 2: a bunch of my workmates showing how smart they are

1677
01:25:23,133 --> 01:25:26,253
Speaker 2: by saying why it won't work. Well, where's your freaking idea?

1678
01:25:26,412 --> 01:25:29,732
Speaker 2: Wasn't freaking I've censored that? Then where's your freaking idea?

1679
01:25:29,772 --> 01:25:31,772
Speaker 2: And then I've put up mine? You don't have one.

1680
01:25:31,853 --> 01:25:34,333
Speaker 2: All you have is the same reasons why things shouldn't happen?

1681
01:25:34,412 --> 01:25:35,492
Speaker 2: And where do we go from there?

1682
01:25:35,652 --> 01:25:39,772
Speaker 3: Nowhere? There's a great song, where do we go? But nowhere?

1683
01:25:40,532 --> 01:25:40,932
Speaker 3: Nick Cave.

1684
01:25:41,772 --> 01:25:44,293
Speaker 2: It's like the capital gains taxes this text to knock

1685
01:25:44,333 --> 01:25:46,572
Speaker 2: people down, to help the people that won't help themselves.

1686
01:25:46,732 --> 01:25:49,732
Speaker 2: There's always someone to save, never celebrating the people that

1687
01:25:49,853 --> 01:25:53,732
Speaker 2: move us forward and make our country a better place.

1688
01:25:54,133 --> 01:25:55,812
Speaker 3: Texts Josh, welcome to the show.

1689
01:25:56,933 --> 01:25:59,532
Speaker 24: Yeah, hey boys, Yeah, I think about this a lot. Actually,

1690
01:25:59,692 --> 01:26:01,893
Speaker 24: you know the number eight why are mentality?

1691
01:26:02,133 --> 01:26:05,372
Speaker 27: And you know, I really like when people are innovative

1692
01:26:05,412 --> 01:26:07,532
Speaker 27: and they come up with new ways and means of

1693
01:26:07,652 --> 01:26:08,932
Speaker 27: dealing with sitt.

1694
01:26:08,853 --> 01:26:13,972
Speaker 24: In things, you know, And I think where we're at

1695
01:26:14,013 --> 01:26:17,933
Speaker 24: at the moment is most of us are quite busy surviving,

1696
01:26:18,492 --> 01:26:21,853
Speaker 24: so much so that it's very hard to get involved

1697
01:26:21,973 --> 01:26:27,692
Speaker 24: in creative type work. Either that or it's very hard

1698
01:26:27,893 --> 01:26:31,213
Speaker 24: to get the resources and the money to actually get

1699
01:26:31,253 --> 01:26:34,173
Speaker 24: anything off the ground. And I know we were talking

1700
01:26:34,293 --> 01:26:41,013
Speaker 24: about the capitalization of small businesses or enterprise earlier in

1701
01:26:41,133 --> 01:26:45,173
Speaker 24: the year, and it just seems like, let's say you

1702
01:26:45,293 --> 01:26:48,213
Speaker 24: got these young and up and comers, they got some

1703
01:26:48,412 --> 01:26:51,933
Speaker 24: really great ideas, but will they even be afforded the

1704
01:26:52,053 --> 01:26:55,412
Speaker 24: time and the space and the resources to make it happen.

1705
01:26:56,293 --> 01:27:01,933
Speaker 24: And that seems to be almost like an economic handicap,

1706
01:27:02,973 --> 01:27:06,692
Speaker 24: where you know, will it ever happen? Well, it's only

1707
01:27:06,772 --> 01:27:10,892
Speaker 24: a fantasy unless you have the resources and the ways

1708
01:27:10,973 --> 01:27:13,213
Speaker 24: and means to sort of make it happen.

1709
01:27:13,532 --> 01:27:19,612
Speaker 2: Well, don't you have to say so any size of endeavor, Josh,

1710
01:27:20,853 --> 01:27:23,412
Speaker 2: do you think you need cheerleaders? So even if it's

1711
01:27:23,532 --> 01:27:26,452
Speaker 2: just a very very small thing amongst friends, let's go,

1712
01:27:26,812 --> 01:27:29,933
Speaker 2: let's go and do this, let's let's let's you know, you,

1713
01:27:31,133 --> 01:27:33,732
Speaker 2: do you think that the cheerleaders help even even without

1714
01:27:33,772 --> 01:27:34,293
Speaker 2: the capital.

1715
01:27:35,013 --> 01:27:39,932
Speaker 24: I look, I don't make I think that, like, because

1716
01:27:39,933 --> 01:27:42,093
Speaker 24: of course you want feedback, right, so you want to

1717
01:27:42,133 --> 01:27:46,093
Speaker 24: balance ideas of people and stuff like that. But there's

1718
01:27:46,173 --> 01:27:49,732
Speaker 24: no point talking to a baker as an example, you're

1719
01:27:49,732 --> 01:27:52,213
Speaker 24: looking for good feedback from a mate who's a baker,

1720
01:27:52,853 --> 01:27:55,532
Speaker 24: and you don't know anything about the industry you're talking about,

1721
01:27:56,853 --> 01:27:59,652
Speaker 24: so it's kind of like it's a it's a it's

1722
01:27:59,732 --> 01:28:04,293
Speaker 24: a non event top of situation. I think what happens

1723
01:28:04,412 --> 01:28:08,173
Speaker 24: is generally when people don't have money, in order to

1724
01:28:08,652 --> 01:28:11,852
Speaker 24: keep your idea going, you throw your ideas out there.

1725
01:28:11,933 --> 01:28:13,772
Speaker 24: Unless you're lucky, someone will back it.

1726
01:28:14,532 --> 01:28:22,572
Speaker 27: If you're unlucky, your ip can be taken, you know,

1727
01:28:22,973 --> 01:28:27,052
Speaker 27: and then you're left knowing that you see an idea

1728
01:28:27,732 --> 01:28:28,892
Speaker 27: that somebody else.

1729
01:28:28,973 --> 01:28:33,133
Speaker 24: Ran with and you can benefit from it at all.

1730
01:28:33,732 --> 01:28:33,932
Speaker 9: Yeah.

1731
01:28:34,293 --> 01:28:35,932
Speaker 3: Well it was one of those things, isn't it. You've

1732
01:28:35,973 --> 01:28:38,372
Speaker 3: got a risk. I mean, there's always the risk that

1733
01:28:38,412 --> 01:28:39,892
Speaker 3: you're going to be ripped off.

1734
01:28:40,173 --> 01:28:42,532
Speaker 5: Yeah, but that's it. I mean, that's one of the rests.

1735
01:28:42,572 --> 01:28:44,572
Speaker 5: As you called, Josh, Yeah, thank you very much. O

1736
01:28:44,652 --> 01:28:47,572
Speaker 5: one hundred and eighty ten eighty is the number to call.

1737
01:28:47,893 --> 01:28:50,173
Speaker 5: Plenty of texts coming through. Are we a nation of

1738
01:28:50,372 --> 01:28:54,973
Speaker 5: no And if you've operated overseas and being somewhat successful,

1739
01:28:55,333 --> 01:28:57,732
Speaker 5: love to hear your take on on the attitude of

1740
01:28:57,772 --> 01:28:59,012
Speaker 5: success wherever you worked.

1741
01:28:59,572 --> 01:29:02,173
Speaker 2: This country has so many negative naysayers. They seem to

1742
01:29:02,372 --> 01:29:05,412
Speaker 2: go against down number eight y attitude, hard to saw

1743
01:29:05,532 --> 01:29:07,412
Speaker 2: like an eagle and you fly with turkeys.

1744
01:29:09,013 --> 01:29:09,213
Speaker 3: Wow.

1745
01:29:09,492 --> 01:29:13,372
Speaker 2: Yeah, but are we even claiming to have a number

1746
01:29:13,412 --> 01:29:16,053
Speaker 2: eight fencing wire mentality in New Zealand anymore? I don't

1747
01:29:16,053 --> 01:29:19,572
Speaker 2: know if we're even at least we used to believe that. Yeah,

1748
01:29:19,853 --> 01:29:21,372
Speaker 2: but do we even believe that anymore?

1749
01:29:21,612 --> 01:29:23,532
Speaker 5: Come on through, Oh eight hundred eighty ten eighty is

1750
01:29:23,572 --> 01:29:24,972
Speaker 5: that number to call twenty past.

1751
01:29:24,732 --> 01:29:25,772
Speaker 3: Three space lab?

1752
01:29:25,853 --> 01:29:32,253
Speaker 11: Does Matt Heathen Tyler Adams afternoons?

1753
01:29:32,412 --> 01:29:35,412
Speaker 2: Call oh, eight hundred eighty ten eighty on News Talk ZB,

1754
01:29:36,452 --> 01:29:37,372
Speaker 2: Very good afternoon.

1755
01:29:37,452 --> 01:29:39,253
Speaker 5: Sure it is twenty two past three.

1756
01:29:40,452 --> 01:29:44,253
Speaker 2: Yes, I kept calling it space lab instead of rocket lab.

1757
01:29:44,372 --> 01:29:48,572
Speaker 2: Apologies to the great New Zealanders involved in rocket labs.

1758
01:29:48,812 --> 01:29:52,453
Speaker 2: Space Lab was the course that punishing reusable the paporratory

1759
01:29:52,532 --> 01:29:53,333
Speaker 2: that was developed by the.

1760
01:29:53,372 --> 01:29:54,732
Speaker 3: European Space Agency.

1761
01:29:55,412 --> 01:29:57,412
Speaker 2: Yeah, it was used on it was you know, it

1762
01:29:57,492 --> 01:29:59,812
Speaker 2: was all mixed up with that punishing space channel.

1763
01:29:59,973 --> 01:30:02,053
Speaker 5: Yeah right, little mere copper there.

1764
01:30:02,093 --> 01:30:07,812
Speaker 2: But I can't believe I'm misnamed space rocket pretty pretty

1765
01:30:07,812 --> 01:30:11,572
Speaker 2: similar dead name terms rocket lab. Sir Peter Beck will

1766
01:30:11,612 --> 01:30:13,572
Speaker 2: forgive you, I think now just quickly.

1767
01:30:13,652 --> 01:30:17,213
Speaker 5: There's a few people talking about Sir Peter Becky was

1768
01:30:17,253 --> 01:30:20,013
Speaker 5: on with Mike Coskin. We played that audio before, but

1769
01:30:20,253 --> 01:30:23,812
Speaker 5: here it is again talking about the attitudes of New Zealanders.

1770
01:30:23,973 --> 01:30:27,692
Speaker 6: True that Kiwis are different in terms of work ethic,

1771
01:30:27,772 --> 01:30:29,652
Speaker 6: their view of the world. That you can spot at

1772
01:30:29,692 --> 01:30:31,572
Speaker 6: KIWI and that's why a lot of internationals like.

1773
01:30:31,612 --> 01:30:36,132
Speaker 7: Kiwi's absolutely but for the positive end. For the negative,

1774
01:30:36,933 --> 01:30:39,612
Speaker 7: you know, the one thing that I'm always banging on

1775
01:30:39,692 --> 01:30:42,012
Speaker 7: with Kiwis is that we just don't think big enough.

1776
01:30:42,452 --> 01:30:44,253
Speaker 7: Like I can go to America and stand up in

1777
01:30:44,293 --> 01:30:45,612
Speaker 7: a room and say I'm going to build a bigger

1778
01:30:45,652 --> 01:30:48,133
Speaker 7: space company in the world and everybody cheers. I do

1779
01:30:48,293 --> 01:30:50,053
Speaker 7: the same thing in the room in New Zealand and

1780
01:30:50,093 --> 01:30:52,013
Speaker 7: everybody sort of goes, oh, I don't know about that,

1781
01:30:52,732 --> 01:30:55,133
Speaker 7: you know what I mean. So that's one of the

1782
01:30:55,173 --> 01:30:57,333
Speaker 7: biggest issues that we have in New Zealand, just like,

1783
01:30:57,692 --> 01:31:00,372
Speaker 7: think bigger and be more ambitious and get after it.

1784
01:31:01,013 --> 01:31:02,692
Speaker 5: So as you're right, and I think you said it

1785
01:31:02,853 --> 01:31:05,732
Speaker 5: very nicely before, Matt, that number eight y mentality we

1786
01:31:05,812 --> 01:31:06,532
Speaker 5: certainly used.

1787
01:31:06,412 --> 01:31:06,692
Speaker 15: To have it.

1788
01:31:06,812 --> 01:31:07,532
Speaker 5: Do we still have that?

1789
01:31:07,933 --> 01:31:08,133
Speaker 11: Yes?

1790
01:31:08,333 --> 01:31:09,932
Speaker 3: So you've got your dream and you make it happen.

1791
01:31:09,973 --> 01:31:11,932
Speaker 3: You think big, and you go hard.

1792
01:31:12,253 --> 01:31:13,253
Speaker 5: The obstacle is the way.

1793
01:31:13,973 --> 01:31:16,532
Speaker 2: The biggest problem is that the kids are taught that

1794
01:31:16,652 --> 01:31:19,492
Speaker 2: it's okay to be average. It says NICKI, it's just

1795
01:31:19,572 --> 01:31:22,213
Speaker 2: too hard to excel, so sad and definitely not what

1796
01:31:22,372 --> 01:31:24,213
Speaker 2: we should be teaching our kids.

1797
01:31:24,452 --> 01:31:25,452
Speaker 3: I think there is a lot of that.

1798
01:31:25,973 --> 01:31:28,852
Speaker 2: I think there is a lot of trying to not

1799
01:31:29,053 --> 01:31:32,333
Speaker 2: make the people that are average feel bad by bringing

1800
01:31:32,412 --> 01:31:35,093
Speaker 2: down the people that are really spectacular or ambitious to

1801
01:31:35,213 --> 01:31:37,932
Speaker 2: their level. And the best way to bring the high

1802
01:31:37,973 --> 01:31:41,333
Speaker 2: flyer down is to undercut them with negativity. And that

1803
01:31:41,412 --> 01:31:45,053
Speaker 2: happens all the time, just in workplaces anywhere. You can

1804
01:31:45,133 --> 01:31:46,812
Speaker 2: sit there and you can see someone getting ahead of

1805
01:31:46,893 --> 01:31:50,772
Speaker 2: you within your company, and the best way to make

1806
01:31:50,893 --> 01:31:53,812
Speaker 2: them not succeed is just to find out reasons. So

1807
01:31:54,093 --> 01:31:56,812
Speaker 2: often these people that bring up safety, for example, they're

1808
01:31:56,853 --> 01:32:00,372
Speaker 2: not bringing it up purely because they care about people's health.

1809
01:32:00,933 --> 01:32:02,253
Speaker 3: They bring it up because that's.

1810
01:32:02,133 --> 01:32:04,612
Speaker 2: A great way to undercut someone's great idea by just

1811
01:32:04,853 --> 01:32:07,093
Speaker 2: shoving so much admin and problems at it that it

1812
01:32:07,133 --> 01:32:07,572
Speaker 2: can't happen.

1813
01:32:08,333 --> 01:32:10,932
Speaker 5: People need to be shamed ter or how you mate

1814
01:32:12,093 --> 01:32:12,612
Speaker 5: not too bad?

1815
01:32:13,213 --> 01:32:15,492
Speaker 20: I thank you. Guys are perpetuating a bit of a

1816
01:32:16,492 --> 01:32:22,892
Speaker 20: negative that isn't actually the reality. I think Peter Beg's wrong. Okay,

1817
01:32:24,093 --> 01:32:30,933
Speaker 20: what's the greatest measure of business success? Basically that's the

1818
01:32:31,053 --> 01:32:32,493
Speaker 20: wealth that you create.

1819
01:32:32,372 --> 01:32:36,173
Speaker 2: Correct, and the about of people and the products, the

1820
01:32:36,293 --> 01:32:39,732
Speaker 2: quality of the products that you create, and the people

1821
01:32:39,812 --> 01:32:40,412
Speaker 2: that you employ.

1822
01:32:42,133 --> 01:32:46,452
Speaker 20: But the basic measure of success across the world is

1823
01:32:46,532 --> 01:32:51,532
Speaker 20: how valuable is your company? How much money are you worth?

1824
01:32:52,652 --> 01:32:57,973
Speaker 20: Those things that you've just essentially come from having a

1825
01:32:58,133 --> 01:33:01,692
Speaker 20: good product, from having a good group of people, they

1826
01:33:01,732 --> 01:33:05,132
Speaker 20: are not essentially the measure of success. But my point

1827
01:33:05,652 --> 01:33:09,772
Speaker 20: is that with the actually as a country are one

1828
01:33:09,812 --> 01:33:15,372
Speaker 20: of the wealthiest in the world. We're certainly up in

1829
01:33:15,492 --> 01:33:22,412
Speaker 20: the top of that list. We however, have more billionaires

1830
01:33:22,532 --> 01:33:28,253
Speaker 20: that with a b perhead of population in the United States,

1831
01:33:29,612 --> 01:33:31,933
Speaker 20: we have nearly twice as many billionaires.

1832
01:33:33,412 --> 01:33:34,732
Speaker 3: Is that a good thing or a bad thing in

1833
01:33:34,772 --> 01:33:35,173
Speaker 3: your eyes?

1834
01:33:36,133 --> 01:33:37,973
Speaker 20: Well, it's got to be a good thing because those

1835
01:33:38,013 --> 01:33:42,692
Speaker 20: people have reached for the sky. They've granted big o.

1836
01:33:43,812 --> 01:33:49,213
Speaker 20: We so we actually have more people of population already

1837
01:33:49,412 --> 01:33:57,053
Speaker 20: doing that. Are not your direct comparison between the attitude

1838
01:33:57,093 --> 01:33:59,812
Speaker 20: of those people in the US or in this case,

1839
01:34:02,933 --> 01:34:06,852
Speaker 20: they say day and we say nay. But the facts are,

1840
01:34:07,013 --> 01:34:09,572
Speaker 20: we have more billionaires to a population.

1841
01:34:09,293 --> 01:34:13,892
Speaker 3: Than that unless unless the name unless unless Darryl.

1842
01:34:13,893 --> 01:34:16,133
Speaker 2: As we're saying that the nahing is a recent thing

1843
01:34:16,492 --> 01:34:18,852
Speaker 2: as opposed to a historical thing.

1844
01:34:20,133 --> 01:34:24,853
Speaker 20: No, I would dispute that. Again, most of those billionaires

1845
01:34:25,013 --> 01:34:32,572
Speaker 20: are fairly recent, So you can't use that absolutely.

1846
01:34:32,253 --> 01:34:34,973
Speaker 2: Graham Heart. Graham Heart's made us money a while back,

1847
01:34:35,013 --> 01:34:35,892
Speaker 2: but keeps making more.

1848
01:34:36,612 --> 01:34:38,293
Speaker 5: Peter Beek Obviously, sir Peter.

1849
01:34:39,372 --> 01:34:42,892
Speaker 20: You can't use the idea of it being a new

1850
01:34:43,053 --> 01:34:45,053
Speaker 20: or old thing as an excuse one way or the other.

1851
01:34:45,253 --> 01:34:48,772
Speaker 2: Yeah, well, Darryl, interesting, New Zealand has three point three

1852
01:34:48,933 --> 01:34:52,412
Speaker 2: seven billionaires per million people, whereas the United States has

1853
01:34:52,612 --> 01:34:57,092
Speaker 2: eleven point nine billionaires per million people, so they actually

1854
01:34:57,213 --> 01:34:59,173
Speaker 2: do have more. We've got three points there.

1855
01:35:00,333 --> 01:35:03,893
Speaker 20: Where are you getting your information from? What is the

1856
01:35:04,013 --> 01:35:06,012
Speaker 20: total number of billionaires in the US?

1857
01:35:06,612 --> 01:35:08,612
Speaker 2: I'm getting my information from the other room, from a

1858
01:35:08,652 --> 01:35:11,973
Speaker 2: producer that's just a very good research Who's on the

1859
01:35:12,013 --> 01:35:13,612
Speaker 2: other where's that information from?

1860
01:35:13,692 --> 01:35:13,933
Speaker 1: You go?

1861
01:35:14,053 --> 01:35:15,613
Speaker 5: And t Irish? He's working fast.

1862
01:35:17,372 --> 01:35:20,132
Speaker 3: Vermont Vermont Business Magazine.

1863
01:35:22,452 --> 01:35:27,852
Speaker 20: Now I have information that's contrary to that. Sole true

1864
01:35:28,053 --> 01:35:30,013
Speaker 20: for discussion and then around.

1865
01:35:29,772 --> 01:35:33,532
Speaker 5: That Darrell, Sorry, but decide the point just quickly, because

1866
01:35:33,652 --> 01:35:35,572
Speaker 5: look if what you say is true, and will take

1867
01:35:35,612 --> 01:35:37,932
Speaker 5: your word because Tyra turns some good research back there.

1868
01:35:38,293 --> 01:35:42,012
Speaker 5: But did those billionaires become successful because of New Zealand

1869
01:35:42,133 --> 01:35:44,132
Speaker 5: or in spite of it? And I love this country

1870
01:35:44,133 --> 01:35:46,492
Speaker 5: absolutely do. I just want it to be better. But

1871
01:35:46,853 --> 01:35:50,333
Speaker 5: were they individuals who were so extraordinary but they tried

1872
01:35:50,372 --> 01:35:52,253
Speaker 5: their best to get their business off the ground in

1873
01:35:52,333 --> 01:35:55,173
Speaker 5: New Zealand and may have faced, like Peter Beck, too

1874
01:35:55,253 --> 01:35:56,933
Speaker 5: many no's and said, bug of this, I'm going to

1875
01:35:56,973 --> 01:35:59,612
Speaker 5: take my business housewhere because people actually believe in me

1876
01:36:00,013 --> 01:36:02,012
Speaker 5: and invest in me in other parts of the world.

1877
01:36:02,333 --> 01:36:03,732
Speaker 5: So is that the case when we look at the

1878
01:36:03,772 --> 01:36:05,492
Speaker 5: billionaires who have succeeded in New Zealand.

1879
01:36:07,133 --> 01:36:11,012
Speaker 20: Look, I think that's actually a very short sighted question.

1880
01:36:11,973 --> 01:36:14,013
Speaker 20: I think that I mean, you take a look at

1881
01:36:14,093 --> 01:36:20,213
Speaker 20: the content of New Zealand as a nation. If you're

1882
01:36:20,293 --> 01:36:23,253
Speaker 20: going to become a billionaire, you have to look outside

1883
01:36:23,293 --> 01:36:28,492
Speaker 20: of it. Anyway. You cannot essentially be able to produce

1884
01:36:28,853 --> 01:36:34,133
Speaker 20: enough of anything in a way that's going to then

1885
01:36:35,452 --> 01:36:42,933
Speaker 20: give you a billionaire spaces without it involving some overseas inclusion,

1886
01:36:43,093 --> 01:36:46,572
Speaker 20: be that where you sell or where you build, or

1887
01:36:46,652 --> 01:36:49,013
Speaker 20: a combination of both. You just couldn't do it. The

1888
01:36:49,093 --> 01:36:53,572
Speaker 20: country is not big enough, you know, our EP isn't

1889
01:36:53,612 --> 01:36:56,692
Speaker 20: big enough for there to be the creation of one

1890
01:36:56,812 --> 01:37:00,772
Speaker 20: billionaire every year through our own market. It's just not possible.

1891
01:37:01,013 --> 01:37:03,213
Speaker 3: So yeah, I thank you for your call, Dorel. Yeah,

1892
01:37:03,213 --> 01:37:04,612
Speaker 3: you do absolutely have to go big.

1893
01:37:05,013 --> 01:37:06,852
Speaker 2: I guess what I would push back on slightly though,

1894
01:37:07,093 --> 01:37:09,133
Speaker 2: as you know, saying that that the nay saying has

1895
01:37:09,213 --> 01:37:11,933
Speaker 2: changed enough. But we can track that our productivity is

1896
01:37:12,093 --> 01:37:14,612
Speaker 2: slipping in New Zealand and has been been dropping off

1897
01:37:14,612 --> 01:37:16,972
Speaker 2: a cliff in Australia as well for quite some time.

1898
01:37:17,772 --> 01:37:20,612
Speaker 2: So we do have a productivity problem. Yeah, absolutely, But

1899
01:37:20,893 --> 01:37:24,013
Speaker 2: whether that directly equates to billionaires. I mean, when you

1900
01:37:24,133 --> 01:37:27,013
Speaker 2: talk about insane things that happened, you've got to say,

1901
01:37:27,053 --> 01:37:30,412
Speaker 2: Sir Peter Jackson's pitch to make all three of those

1902
01:37:30,492 --> 01:37:33,253
Speaker 2: Lord of the Rings movies whilst the same time starting

1903
01:37:33,293 --> 01:37:38,572
Speaker 2: with a digital You know, that guy's ambition was huge.

1904
01:37:39,133 --> 01:37:42,532
Speaker 3: That guy's ambition was right up there with Rocket Lab ambition,

1905
01:37:42,652 --> 01:37:43,093
Speaker 3: you know, to.

1906
01:37:43,133 --> 01:37:44,812
Speaker 5: Be a fly on the wall on that meeting with

1907
01:37:44,933 --> 01:37:47,532
Speaker 5: it was new line Cinema, wasn't it. Yeah, I mean mage,

1908
01:37:47,612 --> 01:37:50,013
Speaker 5: I don't know what he said to that executive to

1909
01:37:50,013 --> 01:37:52,053
Speaker 5: get him across the line, but it was phenomenal. I mean,

1910
01:37:52,093 --> 01:37:53,293
Speaker 5: the guy is an absolute legend.

1911
01:37:53,412 --> 01:37:57,253
Speaker 2: And you've got Graham Graham Hart who took some mass

1912
01:37:57,492 --> 01:37:59,692
Speaker 2: of punts to get from where he started, which was

1913
01:38:00,013 --> 01:38:01,452
Speaker 2: right at the bottom to the right at the top.

1914
01:38:01,492 --> 01:38:01,612
Speaker 4: You know.

1915
01:38:01,692 --> 01:38:04,612
Speaker 5: Yeah, yeah, very true. Right, good discussion, Thank you very much.

1916
01:38:04,612 --> 01:38:06,253
Speaker 5: We've got to leave it there because we've got Gareth

1917
01:38:06,333 --> 01:38:09,973
Speaker 5: Abden or standing by employee lawyer taking your questions. If

1918
01:38:09,973 --> 01:38:12,333
Speaker 5: you got any issues at work or a curly question.

1919
01:38:12,692 --> 01:38:14,372
Speaker 5: Here is the man to chat to. Get on the

1920
01:38:14,412 --> 01:38:16,893
Speaker 5: phones right now, oh eight hundred eighty ten eighty and

1921
01:38:16,933 --> 01:38:18,772
Speaker 5: if you want to send a text nine two nine

1922
01:38:18,893 --> 01:38:20,052
Speaker 5: two headlines coming.

1923
01:38:19,933 --> 01:38:25,652
Speaker 15: Up news talks at the headlines with blue bubble taxes,

1924
01:38:25,853 --> 01:38:29,213
Speaker 15: it's no trouble with a blue bubble. Provisional stats and

1925
01:38:29,372 --> 01:38:33,532
Speaker 15: Z figures show population growth slowed annually to June in

1926
01:38:33,692 --> 01:38:38,012
Speaker 15: all sixteen regions, with births and deaths contributing more than migration.

1927
01:38:38,652 --> 01:38:41,812
Speaker 15: Wellington lost seventeen hundred more people than it gained, but

1928
01:38:41,973 --> 01:38:45,892
Speaker 15: Auckland's population grew one percent and Canterbury's one point one.

1929
01:38:46,812 --> 01:38:47,692
Speaker 3: The Greens are.

1930
01:38:47,612 --> 01:38:51,612
Speaker 15: Posting an online survey asking people how cannabis laws should

1931
01:38:51,692 --> 01:38:55,812
Speaker 15: look to reduce harm. Five years after a referendum narrowly

1932
01:38:55,973 --> 01:39:00,333
Speaker 15: lost the bid for change, Wellington mayor elect Andrew Little

1933
01:39:00,612 --> 01:39:04,252
Speaker 15: has picked labor affiliated Ben McNulty to be his deputy

1934
01:39:04,412 --> 01:39:08,773
Speaker 15: as he organizes his new council. Police and Gisbone investigating

1935
01:39:08,853 --> 01:39:11,772
Speaker 15: the death of Bill Manghi on September twenty nine are

1936
01:39:11,893 --> 01:39:15,972
Speaker 15: asking for sightings of a silver Hyundai Sonata stolen from

1937
01:39:16,133 --> 01:39:19,652
Speaker 15: Ormond Road the night before and recovered just last week.

1938
01:39:20,013 --> 01:39:24,973
Speaker 15: The number plate is a FN two one five. Farmac

1939
01:39:25,093 --> 01:39:29,093
Speaker 15: is now funding another medication for ADHD, helping combat a

1940
01:39:29,333 --> 01:39:34,692
Speaker 15: supply shortage powers struggle. Global energy firm fights plan to

1941
01:39:34,893 --> 01:39:38,852
Speaker 15: mine off Taranaki coast. Read more at Enzaid Herald Premium.

1942
01:39:39,293 --> 01:39:41,213
Speaker 15: Back to matt Ethan Tyler Adams.

1943
01:39:40,933 --> 01:39:42,333
Speaker 5: Thank you very much, Ray Lane.

1944
01:39:42,372 --> 01:39:42,412
Speaker 15: So.

1945
01:39:42,492 --> 01:39:46,532
Speaker 5: Gareth Abdenor is an employment, workplace and information expert and

1946
01:39:46,652 --> 01:39:49,852
Speaker 5: director at Abdenor Law. He joins us once a month

1947
01:39:49,973 --> 01:39:52,412
Speaker 5: to answer any curly questions you've got in your place

1948
01:39:52,452 --> 01:39:54,412
Speaker 5: of work or if you're the boss. And he's back

1949
01:39:54,452 --> 01:40:01,612
Speaker 5: with us now Gareth today, Gareth Giddy, Gareth Garrath, We're

1950
01:40:01,732 --> 01:40:07,612
Speaker 5: just beaming down to our Christchurch studio. Gary Garriy do

1951
01:40:07,692 --> 01:40:08,692
Speaker 5: you like Gary? Gareth?

1952
01:40:08,692 --> 01:40:09,692
Speaker 3: I wonder if Gary can hear us.

1953
01:40:09,853 --> 01:40:15,012
Speaker 2: I'll read out the first question here, yeap, Gary, Gareth,

1954
01:40:15,772 --> 01:40:21,652
Speaker 2: there is we heard something Gareth little Okay, let's try

1955
01:40:21,732 --> 01:40:24,052
Speaker 2: the first question and see if he jumps in work.

1956
01:40:24,093 --> 01:40:28,012
Speaker 2: Has stopped us bringing dogs to work? Says this text

1957
01:40:28,652 --> 01:40:32,253
Speaker 2: on nine two ninety two was actually mentioned in my

1958
01:40:32,372 --> 01:40:34,852
Speaker 2: first interview as a plus that we could bring dogs

1959
01:40:34,893 --> 01:40:36,652
Speaker 2: to work. And one of the reasons I work here

1960
01:40:37,173 --> 01:40:40,572
Speaker 2: now I have to get dog here, dog care daycare,

1961
01:40:40,652 --> 01:40:45,012
Speaker 2: dog dog day here, doggy daycare, right, is what said

1962
01:40:45,093 --> 01:40:48,053
Speaker 2: in an interview binding. There's nothing in my contract, but

1963
01:40:48,213 --> 01:40:51,012
Speaker 2: we had a long discussion about it in the interview.

1964
01:40:52,213 --> 01:40:53,293
Speaker 5: Gareth, did you get that one?

1965
01:40:54,173 --> 01:40:54,532
Speaker 28: I did?

1966
01:40:54,732 --> 01:40:58,892
Speaker 5: Oh, mate, nice to have you with us. I didn't

1967
01:40:58,893 --> 01:41:01,852
Speaker 5: want to have that question myself. Gareth, Wow.

1968
01:41:02,612 --> 01:41:06,293
Speaker 28: Yeah, as a as a dog owner myself, it'd be

1969
01:41:06,812 --> 01:41:10,932
Speaker 28: great if you could dogs to work, but not everybody's

1970
01:41:10,973 --> 01:41:13,093
Speaker 28: that keen on it, And depending on the type of

1971
01:41:13,133 --> 01:41:17,973
Speaker 28: workplace you know, it may no longer be appropriate to

1972
01:41:18,133 --> 01:41:20,772
Speaker 28: have pets in the workplace. If there's nothing in the

1973
01:41:20,893 --> 01:41:25,652
Speaker 28: employment agreement, it would really come down to whether this

1974
01:41:25,893 --> 01:41:29,093
Speaker 28: became a term of employment or not. I expect it

1975
01:41:29,133 --> 01:41:32,532
Speaker 28: would be a policy, and as long as the employer

1976
01:41:32,652 --> 01:41:36,133
Speaker 28: has a genuine reason for it, I think they'd most

1977
01:41:36,133 --> 01:41:37,213
Speaker 28: probably be able to change it.

1978
01:41:38,093 --> 01:41:39,973
Speaker 2: Yeah, because it says there's nothing in the in the

1979
01:41:40,213 --> 01:41:42,053
Speaker 2: in the contract. I mean, it might just be a

1980
01:41:42,053 --> 01:41:44,772
Speaker 2: little bit of a bony contention and trust back and

1981
01:41:44,893 --> 01:41:47,933
Speaker 2: forth with the person and employed You.

1982
01:41:48,093 --> 01:41:49,612
Speaker 5: There might have been a doochy on the carpet at

1983
01:41:49,652 --> 01:41:51,652
Speaker 5: one stage and the rights revoked.

1984
01:41:52,532 --> 01:41:54,452
Speaker 2: It seems to be happening more and more that Why

1985
01:41:54,532 --> 01:41:56,772
Speaker 2: is there a sudden movement across businesses to not have

1986
01:41:56,933 --> 01:41:57,532
Speaker 2: dogs at work?

1987
01:41:57,772 --> 01:41:59,333
Speaker 3: Because there used to be dog Friday here.

1988
01:41:59,412 --> 01:42:01,692
Speaker 28: You were thinking there were more accidents on the carpet.

1989
01:42:02,293 --> 01:42:07,452
Speaker 3: Well, my dog Colin did did layer dogs. He had

1990
01:42:07,572 --> 01:42:10,092
Speaker 3: an ear under Tracy Donaldson's desk and a ready hoodeche.

1991
01:42:10,133 --> 01:42:12,133
Speaker 2: When I was working there, she was heavy with that.

1992
01:42:12,692 --> 01:42:14,732
Speaker 2: She was she was a dog lover, so she was

1993
01:42:15,893 --> 01:42:17,812
Speaker 2: very cool about it. And when when Colin actually went

1994
01:42:17,893 --> 01:42:20,333
Speaker 2: missing a few months later, she came out and helped.

1995
01:42:20,133 --> 01:42:20,572
Speaker 9: Me look for him.

1996
01:42:20,612 --> 01:42:23,372
Speaker 5: Oh she's good. There Tracy, Yeah, yeah, but still yeah

1997
01:42:23,492 --> 01:42:24,253
Speaker 5: but of a pushback.

1998
01:42:24,333 --> 01:42:27,532
Speaker 28: Gareth, Yeah, I'd be inclined to look at being able

1999
01:42:27,572 --> 01:42:32,253
Speaker 28: to take your pet to work as a privilege. I'm

2000
01:42:32,333 --> 01:42:35,772
Speaker 28: surprised at how many places allow it because a lot

2001
01:42:35,812 --> 01:42:40,173
Speaker 28: of people aren't into pets and they may have an

2002
01:42:40,213 --> 01:42:42,732
Speaker 28: issue with other people's pets being in the workplace.

2003
01:42:43,293 --> 01:42:45,213
Speaker 2: So if it's not in the contract, it doesn't matter.

2004
01:42:45,253 --> 01:42:47,852
Speaker 2: If it's mentioned at the work interview. Of course, lots

2005
01:42:47,853 --> 01:42:50,172
Speaker 2: of places go, ah, this, this place is like a family.

2006
01:42:50,293 --> 01:42:52,452
Speaker 2: You'll you'll fit right in, and then you get there

2007
01:42:52,492 --> 01:42:54,172
Speaker 2: and it's not like a family. It's like a workplace

2008
01:42:54,213 --> 01:42:54,893
Speaker 2: and you don't fit in.

2009
01:42:55,412 --> 01:42:56,812
Speaker 28: So it's a dysfunctional family.

2010
01:42:58,572 --> 01:43:00,692
Speaker 2: So if it's not in the contract, then it's not

2011
01:43:00,812 --> 01:43:03,652
Speaker 2: It hasn't been negotiated as it would that be Would

2012
01:43:03,692 --> 01:43:04,253
Speaker 2: that be correct?

2013
01:43:05,532 --> 01:43:08,013
Speaker 28: If only it was that simple. It's a bit of

2014
01:43:08,053 --> 01:43:13,333
Speaker 28: a great and depending on exactly what was said, you

2015
01:43:13,412 --> 01:43:16,853
Speaker 28: could argue that it was part of your term of employment.

2016
01:43:17,013 --> 01:43:20,133
Speaker 28: But you know, if it's not in writing, I expect

2017
01:43:20,173 --> 01:43:23,572
Speaker 28: there's going to be two different recollections of what was said.

2018
01:43:23,973 --> 01:43:26,652
Speaker 28: I'd be more inclined to focus on why is the

2019
01:43:26,772 --> 01:43:32,492
Speaker 28: employer changing the approach, what's the justification or reasoning behind it?

2020
01:43:33,093 --> 01:43:35,013
Speaker 28: And I think as long as they can back that up,

2021
01:43:35,253 --> 01:43:37,173
Speaker 28: they're likely to be in quite a good position.

2022
01:43:37,532 --> 01:43:39,812
Speaker 5: Yeah, very good. Oh eight one hundred eighty, ten eighty.

2023
01:43:39,893 --> 01:43:42,732
Speaker 5: If you've got a question for garethe's with us for

2024
01:43:42,853 --> 01:43:44,972
Speaker 5: the next fifteen minutes, so you better get in quick.

2025
01:43:45,013 --> 01:43:46,492
Speaker 5: If you've got a problem in your place at work,

2026
01:43:46,612 --> 01:43:48,812
Speaker 5: or you're the boss and you've got a question about

2027
01:43:48,812 --> 01:43:51,732
Speaker 5: an employee, now is your opportunity back in a mo

2028
01:43:52,053 --> 01:43:53,532
Speaker 5: It is twenty wonder four.

2029
01:43:55,093 --> 01:43:58,452
Speaker 1: Matt Heath Taylor Adams with you as your afternoon rolls

2030
01:43:58,492 --> 01:44:01,892
Speaker 1: on Matt Heath and Taylor Adams Afternoons news Talks.

2031
01:44:01,933 --> 01:44:04,932
Speaker 5: The'd be eighteen to four. We are joined by Gareth Abden,

2032
01:44:05,013 --> 01:44:08,133
Speaker 5: or Employment Workplace and Information expert and director of Ebden

2033
01:44:08,253 --> 01:44:11,812
Speaker 5: or Employment Lawyer. He's taking your questions and plenty are

2034
01:44:11,853 --> 01:44:13,692
Speaker 5: coming through. One ninety two.

2035
01:44:14,013 --> 01:44:15,612
Speaker 3: This is this is a funny one. This isn't really

2036
01:44:15,652 --> 01:44:16,893
Speaker 3: a question for you. I just thought it was a

2037
01:44:16,933 --> 01:44:17,412
Speaker 3: funny text.

2038
01:44:17,452 --> 01:44:20,092
Speaker 2: What if they lie in the advert exciting fun workplace

2039
01:44:20,133 --> 01:44:22,053
Speaker 2: and it turns out in fact not to be an

2040
01:44:22,093 --> 01:44:26,333
Speaker 2: exciting or fun workplace. This is a very It's hard

2041
01:44:26,372 --> 01:44:29,253
Speaker 2: to quantify. It's pretty subjective, isn't it. Whether it's an exciting,

2042
01:44:29,293 --> 01:44:30,412
Speaker 2: fun workplace.

2043
01:44:30,333 --> 01:44:31,533
Speaker 5: Careth false advertising?

2044
01:44:32,053 --> 01:44:35,213
Speaker 28: Yeah, I think the hunters and the word work it

2045
01:44:35,412 --> 01:44:39,093
Speaker 28: was exciting and fun, they'd be calling it fun or play.

2046
01:44:40,692 --> 01:44:44,333
Speaker 5: Exactly ninety two is that text number. But if you

2047
01:44:44,492 --> 01:44:45,692
Speaker 5: want to get to the top of the q O,

2048
01:44:45,732 --> 01:44:48,892
Speaker 5: eight hundred and eighty ten eighty is that number to call.

2049
01:44:49,572 --> 01:44:52,333
Speaker 2: Mister Abdenall. I'm working at a satellite a depot for

2050
01:44:52,412 --> 01:44:55,253
Speaker 2: a large blue chip company and have been for eight years.

2051
01:44:55,293 --> 01:44:57,372
Speaker 2: My manager threatened me and other workers that if we

2052
01:44:57,532 --> 01:44:59,972
Speaker 2: needed to, he would bring us back to the main depot,

2053
01:45:00,013 --> 01:45:02,652
Speaker 2: which is seventy five kilometers away. We have said that

2054
01:45:02,812 --> 01:45:06,133
Speaker 2: our main workplace of work is the satellite depot and

2055
01:45:06,253 --> 01:45:10,293
Speaker 2: he can't do that, can he? Or are we correct

2056
01:45:10,333 --> 01:45:13,013
Speaker 2: that our main place of work is legally our workplace.

2057
01:45:13,173 --> 01:45:13,972
Speaker 3: That's from Terry.

2058
01:45:15,173 --> 01:45:18,572
Speaker 28: Yeah, it really depends on what's in the employment agreement.

2059
01:45:18,732 --> 01:45:22,253
Speaker 28: Most employment agreements list the place of work, and if

2060
01:45:22,293 --> 01:45:26,173
Speaker 28: it lists the satellite office, then that's the place of work.

2061
01:45:26,253 --> 01:45:28,852
Speaker 28: Of course, you've got to be careful that you don't

2062
01:45:28,893 --> 01:45:32,173
Speaker 28: win the battle and lose the war. As I always say,

2063
01:45:32,333 --> 01:45:35,972
Speaker 28: if you get into a dispute with your employer, chances

2064
01:45:36,253 --> 01:45:40,293
Speaker 28: things aren't going to end well for you, because ultimately

2065
01:45:40,372 --> 01:45:45,852
Speaker 28: the company could restructure, close that satellite office and either

2066
01:45:46,013 --> 01:45:51,452
Speaker 28: offer you a role in the main site will make

2067
01:45:51,492 --> 01:45:56,212
Speaker 28: you redundant. So yeah, so you might be technically correct,

2068
01:45:56,452 --> 01:45:59,093
Speaker 28: but yeah, I'd be careful as to how you approach it.

2069
01:45:59,412 --> 01:46:02,892
Speaker 2: So what happens when offices If a business moves head

2070
01:46:02,933 --> 01:46:06,692
Speaker 2: office to another city, just what happens there. So they've

2071
01:46:06,692 --> 01:46:09,053
Speaker 2: said that this is your workplace and then they move

2072
01:46:09,253 --> 01:46:11,492
Speaker 2: the workplace, you know, three hundred kilometers away.

2073
01:46:12,253 --> 01:46:14,492
Speaker 28: Yeah, if they if they move it to that degree,

2074
01:46:15,492 --> 01:46:19,052
Speaker 28: that would be considered a substantial change to the position,

2075
01:46:19,253 --> 01:46:24,172
Speaker 28: and it would be more canto a restructure type situation.

2076
01:46:25,133 --> 01:46:29,612
Speaker 28: What I see far more often is where the business

2077
01:46:29,692 --> 01:46:32,772
Speaker 28: premises moves from one side of town to the other,

2078
01:46:33,532 --> 01:46:36,133
Speaker 28: and then you have to look at is it still

2079
01:46:36,253 --> 01:46:42,532
Speaker 28: reasonable for the employee to travel a bit further? And

2080
01:46:42,652 --> 01:46:46,053
Speaker 28: that often you know, it's it's not straightforward, it's not

2081
01:46:46,093 --> 01:46:49,372
Speaker 28: a black and white answer, and sometimes it does end

2082
01:46:49,452 --> 01:46:54,253
Speaker 28: up being that you know, you you took the job

2083
01:46:54,333 --> 01:46:56,892
Speaker 28: because it was just around the corner from where you live,

2084
01:46:57,572 --> 01:47:01,732
Speaker 28: and you end up having to commute if they move.

2085
01:47:02,013 --> 01:47:05,333
Speaker 5: Complex Ross, you're going to question for Gareth.

2086
01:47:08,053 --> 01:47:12,772
Speaker 18: My husband Rob Newton had an injury workplace injury on

2087
01:47:12,973 --> 01:47:17,852
Speaker 18: the twenty seventh of March. We've now had obviously as

2088
01:47:17,933 --> 01:47:20,732
Speaker 18: we went along the way, it was fizzio and then

2089
01:47:20,812 --> 01:47:25,412
Speaker 18: it was to call the Cours zone injection and now

2090
01:47:25,572 --> 01:47:27,892
Speaker 18: they've said, okay, we need to go in for surgery.

2091
01:47:28,333 --> 01:47:31,372
Speaker 18: Obviously that goes in through the public health system. We're

2092
01:47:31,452 --> 01:47:34,892
Speaker 18: fortunate to have a very good specialist that's been helping

2093
01:47:35,013 --> 01:47:38,452
Speaker 18: us through this. My issue is, and the worry is

2094
01:47:38,652 --> 01:47:45,012
Speaker 18: that twice we've been called into his workplace and they've today.

2095
01:47:45,333 --> 01:47:48,213
Speaker 18: We were in today and they said they want to

2096
01:47:48,372 --> 01:47:54,213
Speaker 18: terminate him through to being medically unfit. So that's from March.

2097
01:47:55,732 --> 01:47:58,093
Speaker 18: Now we're just waiting. We've been in on fifteenth of

2098
01:47:58,133 --> 01:48:00,932
Speaker 18: October to the hospital. Obviously you wait for these things.

2099
01:48:01,692 --> 01:48:04,253
Speaker 18: It's now causing quite a bit of stress. They now

2100
01:48:04,372 --> 01:48:09,692
Speaker 18: want me to give them a date of when how

2101
01:48:09,732 --> 01:48:12,253
Speaker 18: long it's going to be before he comes back into work.

2102
01:48:12,692 --> 01:48:14,893
Speaker 18: We don't know for the operation. What we do know

2103
01:48:15,053 --> 01:48:17,412
Speaker 18: is when he has a surgery at six weeks in

2104
01:48:17,492 --> 01:48:20,572
Speaker 18: a sling and then after that it's obviously the reab

2105
01:48:20,652 --> 01:48:26,772
Speaker 18: on the shoulder, and I'm now thinking, what is my recourse.

2106
01:48:26,893 --> 01:48:30,532
Speaker 18: Do we worry that they can do this, Do we

2107
01:48:30,692 --> 01:48:36,772
Speaker 18: go and speak some legal advice from some employment lawyer,

2108
01:48:37,732 --> 01:48:42,412
Speaker 18: or is this fair enough? Because it is from first

2109
01:48:42,452 --> 01:48:46,572
Speaker 18: of April, so that's quite a few months April, May, June, July, August,

2110
01:48:46,572 --> 01:48:51,012
Speaker 18: septeenth of October, so that seven months now the hospital

2111
01:48:51,093 --> 01:48:55,532
Speaker 18: surgeon has given him till the twenty seventh of January.

2112
01:48:55,933 --> 01:48:58,812
Speaker 18: I do understand it's a long time. He works in

2113
01:48:58,933 --> 01:49:06,133
Speaker 18: traffic controls his dominant right hand, and that's the injured.

2114
01:49:05,893 --> 01:49:13,692
Speaker 28: Hand I situation, And firstly, I'm sorry that he had

2115
01:49:13,772 --> 01:49:18,492
Speaker 28: this accident. The general rule is that if a person

2116
01:49:18,652 --> 01:49:21,572
Speaker 28: is away from work for an extended period of time,

2117
01:49:22,612 --> 01:49:26,572
Speaker 28: depending on their role, at some point the employer can

2118
01:49:26,772 --> 01:49:30,652
Speaker 28: consult with them to find out if they're likely to

2119
01:49:30,732 --> 01:49:34,452
Speaker 28: be fully fit to return to their role and when

2120
01:49:34,612 --> 01:49:39,932
Speaker 28: that's likely to be. Now, it sounds like the employer

2121
01:49:40,213 --> 01:49:43,572
Speaker 28: is going through that process and that is something that

2122
01:49:43,692 --> 01:49:47,893
Speaker 28: they are entitled to do. They haven't yet terminated the employment,

2123
01:49:49,133 --> 01:49:52,173
Speaker 28: but as you say, this has been more than six

2124
01:49:52,333 --> 01:49:57,732
Speaker 28: months that he's been away from his job, and it

2125
01:49:57,812 --> 01:50:00,892
Speaker 28: would likely be considered fair and reasonable for the employer

2126
01:50:00,973 --> 01:50:02,293
Speaker 28: to ask for more information.

2127
01:50:03,492 --> 01:50:03,852
Speaker 5: Good luck.

2128
01:50:03,933 --> 01:50:06,452
Speaker 28: Depending on the business, they might be able to keep

2129
01:50:06,492 --> 01:50:11,333
Speaker 28: the role open longer or they might not. But definitely,

2130
01:50:11,772 --> 01:50:14,213
Speaker 28: where where there's a risk like this, I would be

2131
01:50:14,293 --> 01:50:17,412
Speaker 28: inclined to go and get some legal advice so that

2132
01:50:17,853 --> 01:50:20,652
Speaker 28: your advisor can look at the situation and give you

2133
01:50:20,893 --> 01:50:21,892
Speaker 28: specific advice.

2134
01:50:24,053 --> 01:50:25,452
Speaker 10: Okay, I appreciate that.

2135
01:50:26,133 --> 01:50:28,692
Speaker 5: Well, Ross, Yeah, yeah, that is a tough situation to

2136
01:50:28,772 --> 01:50:32,253
Speaker 5: be in. Nineteen ninety two is the text number. But

2137
01:50:32,372 --> 01:50:34,812
Speaker 5: we'll go to Matt here, get a Matt. You're on

2138
01:50:34,933 --> 01:50:36,772
Speaker 5: with Gareth Oy.

2139
01:50:37,692 --> 01:50:43,012
Speaker 29: Look two questions. I was given a changer of contract,

2140
01:50:43,173 --> 01:50:48,532
Speaker 29: which I had been there for the first and next month,

2141
01:50:48,612 --> 01:50:52,572
Speaker 29: they would have completed the first six months at a

2142
01:50:52,612 --> 01:50:56,293
Speaker 29: week or so ago. They gave me another fixed contract

2143
01:50:58,053 --> 01:51:02,253
Speaker 29: and that's for super amount of time until the next

2144
01:51:02,692 --> 01:51:07,772
Speaker 29: half way through next year. Now I understand that after

2145
01:51:07,853 --> 01:51:11,213
Speaker 29: six months to get your sickly. Now by me signing

2146
01:51:11,253 --> 01:51:16,333
Speaker 29: another contract before my first one expired, does that re

2147
01:51:16,572 --> 01:51:16,973
Speaker 29: skeet it?

2148
01:51:19,133 --> 01:51:19,173
Speaker 16: No?

2149
01:51:19,572 --> 01:51:23,213
Speaker 28: No, Generally that wouldn't reset the clock as long as

2150
01:51:23,293 --> 01:51:27,852
Speaker 28: it's the same employer. It's your geration of employment that matters.

2151
01:51:28,173 --> 01:51:34,293
Speaker 28: Now there's a few red flags in what you've already said, Matt.

2152
01:51:36,213 --> 01:51:41,532
Speaker 28: Casual employees are often not truly casual. So it may

2153
01:51:42,013 --> 01:51:45,732
Speaker 28: maybe that you, while you were given a casual employment agreement,

2154
01:51:45,853 --> 01:51:49,133
Speaker 28: you went actually a casual employee, and so you may

2155
01:51:50,492 --> 01:51:53,973
Speaker 28: you may already be a permanent, part time employee. The

2156
01:51:54,612 --> 01:51:57,252
Speaker 28: next thing is if you've been given a fixed term contract,

2157
01:51:57,692 --> 01:52:00,892
Speaker 28: I'd be very interested to look at the reason why

2158
01:52:01,093 --> 01:52:08,093
Speaker 28: it's a fixed term contract. Employers can genuinely have it

2159
01:52:08,173 --> 01:52:11,572
Speaker 28: for term if there's a specific project or if they

2160
01:52:11,652 --> 01:52:17,573
Speaker 28: only need assistance for a certain period, but sometimes employers

2161
01:52:17,612 --> 01:52:21,452
Speaker 28: don't understand that and use a fixed term for other reasons.

2162
01:52:22,213 --> 01:52:25,333
Speaker 28: But you know, your question was about sick leave, and

2163
01:52:25,853 --> 01:52:28,293
Speaker 28: I'd say, if you sign this contract, it would be

2164
01:52:28,452 --> 01:52:32,812
Speaker 28: unlikely that that would reset the clock, and I would

2165
01:52:32,812 --> 01:52:35,053
Speaker 28: be very surprised if that was the case. As long

2166
01:52:35,093 --> 01:52:38,412
Speaker 28: as you remain employed by the same employer and have

2167
01:52:38,612 --> 01:52:41,293
Speaker 28: been there for more than six months, you should get

2168
01:52:41,372 --> 01:52:43,133
Speaker 28: that entitlement to paid sick leave.

2169
01:52:43,333 --> 01:52:46,293
Speaker 5: All the best, Matt. We've got about sixty seconds, Gareth,

2170
01:52:46,692 --> 01:52:48,532
Speaker 5: Maybe time for one more quick text.

2171
01:52:49,013 --> 01:52:51,372
Speaker 2: My husband's boss has been deducting the workers hours for

2172
01:52:51,492 --> 01:52:55,452
Speaker 2: not filling in their online timesheets properly, example, ducting two

2173
01:52:55,532 --> 01:52:58,173
Speaker 2: hours for each day not clocked in correctly. One worker

2174
01:52:58,293 --> 01:53:01,012
Speaker 2: was deducted eight hours for the week two hours per day.

2175
01:53:01,173 --> 01:53:06,652
Speaker 3: For not clocking in correctly. Can a boss do this, Gareth, Yeah,

2176
01:53:06,692 --> 01:53:07,532
Speaker 3: that's pretty dodgy.

2177
01:53:09,333 --> 01:53:13,093
Speaker 28: The more appropriate course would be to have a disciplinary

2178
01:53:13,213 --> 01:53:17,532
Speaker 28: process for failing to follow instructions to complete your timesheet.

2179
01:53:17,732 --> 01:53:21,532
Speaker 28: Of course, if you don't complete a timesheet then the

2180
01:53:21,612 --> 01:53:24,093
Speaker 28: business might not know how much you've worked and so

2181
01:53:24,213 --> 01:53:26,812
Speaker 28: it might be difficult for them to pay you. So

2182
01:53:26,893 --> 01:53:28,492
Speaker 28: we need some more information there now.

2183
01:53:28,652 --> 01:53:31,333
Speaker 3: Very bit of a Fred Flinstone situation to me, certainly

2184
01:53:31,412 --> 01:53:32,532
Speaker 3: does Gareth.

2185
01:53:32,612 --> 01:53:34,572
Speaker 5: Always a pleasure to have you on. Thank you very

2186
01:53:34,692 --> 01:53:37,053
Speaker 5: much again for coming in and we will catch again soon.

2187
01:53:37,572 --> 01:53:38,532
Speaker 28: Sounds good, Thanks guys.

2188
01:53:38,652 --> 01:53:42,012
Speaker 5: That is Gareth Abdenor, director of abden Or Employment Law.

2189
01:53:42,093 --> 01:53:44,412
Speaker 5: His website if you want to get in touch is

2190
01:53:44,492 --> 01:53:47,732
Speaker 5: Abdenorlaw dot Nz and just quickly. The content of the

2191
01:53:47,853 --> 01:53:50,532
Speaker 5: segment is general in nature and is not legal advice.

2192
01:53:50,772 --> 01:53:53,613
Speaker 5: Any information discussed is not intended to be a substitute

2193
01:53:53,812 --> 01:53:57,092
Speaker 5: from it for obtaining specific professional advice.

2194
01:53:57,173 --> 01:54:01,532
Speaker 1: It is eight to four The big stories, the big issues,

2195
01:54:01,732 --> 01:54:04,092
Speaker 1: the big trends, and everything in between.

2196
01:54:04,333 --> 01:54:07,533
Speaker 11: Matt Heath and Tyler Adams afternoons used talks.

2197
01:54:07,253 --> 01:54:12,412
Speaker 5: It'd be news storks there be. It is five to four,

2198
01:54:13,532 --> 01:54:14,973
Speaker 5: and that is pretty much us.

2199
01:54:15,253 --> 01:54:16,053
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's right.

2200
01:54:16,213 --> 01:54:18,652
Speaker 2: I thank you so much for listening everyone. It's been

2201
01:54:18,732 --> 01:54:22,692
Speaker 2: a fantastic show. And look, I'm not sure what's happening

2202
01:54:22,732 --> 01:54:25,492
Speaker 2: in the Dodgers situation, but I've seen that Harry and

2203
01:54:25,692 --> 01:54:29,452
Speaker 2: Megan are attending the game. Oh nice, that's surely a curse.

2204
01:54:30,293 --> 01:54:33,852
Speaker 2: It's made me very, very concerned with how my team's going.

2205
01:54:33,973 --> 01:54:36,053
Speaker 5: There's a nice ticks here. Give that man Heath an

2206
01:54:36,253 --> 01:54:38,933
Speaker 5: intentional walkout of the studios he can catch up with

2207
01:54:38,973 --> 01:54:40,093
Speaker 5: the game. I love that.

2208
01:54:41,293 --> 01:54:43,812
Speaker 2: All right, The great and powerful Heather Duplessy Allen is

2209
01:54:44,053 --> 01:54:47,693
Speaker 2: up next. But Tyler, why, my good friend, would I

2210
01:54:47,772 --> 01:54:50,173
Speaker 2: be playing this song from Pearl Jam better man?

2211
01:54:50,893 --> 01:54:53,772
Speaker 5: Is this because you mentioned at the start of today's

2212
01:54:53,812 --> 01:54:55,653
Speaker 5: show that you're making a real effort to be a

2213
01:54:55,693 --> 01:54:59,253
Speaker 5: better man, slightly better each day, which is a wonderful philosophy.

2214
01:54:59,613 --> 01:55:00,453
Speaker 3: Yeah, I was.

2215
01:55:00,693 --> 01:55:00,973
Speaker 14: I was.

2216
01:55:01,173 --> 01:55:05,052
Speaker 3: I got angry at a guy for filling for filming

2217
01:55:05,133 --> 01:55:05,453
Speaker 3: my car.

2218
01:55:05,853 --> 01:55:07,812
Speaker 2: I jumped to conclusions and I said, why are you

2219
01:55:07,893 --> 01:55:10,453
Speaker 2: filming my? Then it turned out that I was in front.

2220
01:55:10,413 --> 01:55:12,053
Speaker 24: Of a a.

2221
01:55:14,493 --> 01:55:16,093
Speaker 3: What do you call it? Panel beaters and he was

2222
01:55:16,333 --> 01:55:17,253
Speaker 3: evaluating the car.

2223
01:55:18,093 --> 01:55:21,613
Speaker 2: It's a wonderful story, but hey, you see so much

2224
01:55:21,693 --> 01:55:24,453
Speaker 2: online of people filming people and you think it's for

2225
01:55:24,533 --> 01:55:25,373
Speaker 2: some kind of content.

2226
01:55:25,613 --> 01:55:27,573
Speaker 5: Yeah, it's a weird thing to do, but he was

2227
01:55:27,613 --> 01:55:28,453
Speaker 5: just doing his job.

2228
01:55:29,133 --> 01:55:31,133
Speaker 2: But we'll all be better men and women if we

2229
01:55:32,373 --> 01:55:35,693
Speaker 2: take the positive evaluation of any situation instead of the

2230
01:55:35,733 --> 01:55:36,173
Speaker 2: negative one.

2231
01:55:36,253 --> 01:55:38,213
Speaker 5: Right beautifully said, Yeah, what a tune.

2232
01:55:38,293 --> 01:55:40,293
Speaker 3: So I felt bad. I felt bad for going why

2233
01:55:40,293 --> 01:55:41,013
Speaker 3: are you filming me?

2234
01:55:41,173 --> 01:55:42,493
Speaker 5: But you're a better man now I.

2235
01:55:42,573 --> 01:55:43,932
Speaker 3: Am a better man hopefully.

2236
01:55:44,253 --> 01:55:44,453
Speaker 5: Yeah.

2237
01:55:45,053 --> 01:55:48,812
Speaker 2: Anyway, you seem busy everyone, so we'll let you go

2238
01:55:49,933 --> 01:55:51,293
Speaker 2: until tomorrow afternoon.

2239
01:55:51,373 --> 01:55:52,852
Speaker 3: Give him a taste of KeyWe from us.

2240
01:55:53,093 --> 01:55:53,533
Speaker 5: I love you

2241
01:56:27,013 --> 01:56:29,573
Speaker 1: For more from News Talks at b Listen live on

2242
01:56:29,733 --> 01:56:32,653
Speaker 1: air or online, and keep our shows with you wherever

2243
01:56:32,733 --> 01:56:35,293
Speaker 1: you go with our podcasts on iHeartRadio.