1 00:00:09,133 --> 00:00:12,693 Speaker 1: You're listening to a podcast from News Talks EDB. Follow 2 00:00:12,773 --> 00:00:16,173 Speaker 1: this and our wide range of podcasts now on iHeartRadio. 3 00:00:17,493 --> 00:00:20,333 Speaker 1: Yet inside the game from every angle. 4 00:00:20,493 --> 00:00:24,653 Speaker 2: It's Rugby Direct with Elliott Smith powered by News Talks EDB. 5 00:00:25,173 --> 00:00:28,373 Speaker 3: Welcome into Rugby Direct powered by Forklift Solutions, lifting you 6 00:00:28,573 --> 00:00:32,613 Speaker 3: and your business to a higher level. Time to reconvene 7 00:00:33,173 --> 00:00:36,693 Speaker 3: on the podcast, I've shot myself over to Johannesburg. Liam, 8 00:00:37,453 --> 00:00:39,853 Speaker 3: You're back at home kitchen giving a watch on what 9 00:00:39,933 --> 00:00:43,213 Speaker 3: has been a dramatic few days in All Blacks. Developments 10 00:00:43,413 --> 00:00:46,293 Speaker 3: came out last Thursday, and this has been the story 11 00:00:46,293 --> 00:00:49,453 Speaker 3: of the week, hasn't it, The Leon McDonald departure from 12 00:00:49,493 --> 00:00:53,533 Speaker 3: the All Blacks after just five test matches. I guess 13 00:00:53,573 --> 00:00:56,493 Speaker 3: before we get into what it means your initial reaction 14 00:00:56,573 --> 00:00:59,013 Speaker 3: when that news dropped around lunchtime on. 15 00:00:58,973 --> 00:01:03,493 Speaker 4: Thursday, Well, certainly dramatic, wasn't it, Elliott? As you mentioned there, 16 00:01:04,013 --> 00:01:07,573 Speaker 4: I don't think anybody really saw that coming. There was, 17 00:01:07,853 --> 00:01:11,493 Speaker 4: you know, few whispers that maybe there were too many messages, 18 00:01:12,293 --> 00:01:14,893 Speaker 4: too many coaches. Well then the All Black scroup and 19 00:01:14,893 --> 00:01:17,973 Speaker 4: we've seen them be very scratchy and patchy this year 20 00:01:18,253 --> 00:01:21,013 Speaker 4: and heard a few whispers about maybe some tension in 21 00:01:21,053 --> 00:01:24,293 Speaker 4: the coaching group, but as you say, certainly five tests 22 00:01:24,333 --> 00:01:28,933 Speaker 4: into the year, nobody really expected such a dramatic departure 23 00:01:29,373 --> 00:01:34,053 Speaker 4: so early into the year, so early into Scott Robertson's 24 00:01:34,053 --> 00:01:37,453 Speaker 4: coaching tenure, having just formed this group, What. 25 00:01:37,373 --> 00:01:40,373 Speaker 3: Does I guess do for Yeah, I know you've just 26 00:01:40,413 --> 00:01:43,653 Speaker 3: been on the phone call with Jason Ryan and Tupo Vie. 27 00:01:43,653 --> 00:01:46,733 Speaker 3: But I suppose the cohesion of the management staff. But 28 00:01:46,853 --> 00:01:49,293 Speaker 3: I know they've made the decision to sort of make 29 00:01:49,333 --> 00:01:51,533 Speaker 3: things more cohesive. But it's got to be an initial joke, 30 00:01:51,613 --> 00:01:53,413 Speaker 3: doesn't it. So the way they prepare for this Test 31 00:01:53,453 --> 00:01:55,493 Speaker 3: match against South Africa. 32 00:01:56,893 --> 00:02:00,893 Speaker 4: It's a major disruption, isn't it. If you take a 33 00:02:00,933 --> 00:02:04,813 Speaker 4: step back, and I guess look at it from from 34 00:02:04,973 --> 00:02:07,333 Speaker 4: a structure point of view. Lelio McDonald was the All 35 00:02:07,333 --> 00:02:10,893 Speaker 4: Blacks attack coach and I think that's where the issues 36 00:02:11,173 --> 00:02:15,093 Speaker 4: have One of the areas where the issues have arisen 37 00:02:15,133 --> 00:02:20,013 Speaker 4: from Leon is known has been quite a structured attack coach, 38 00:02:20,893 --> 00:02:26,413 Speaker 4: having formulas in place, and him and Scott Robinson are 39 00:02:26,453 --> 00:02:31,133 Speaker 4: both headstrong characters and things have clearly come to a 40 00:02:31,173 --> 00:02:33,893 Speaker 4: head from there. But from a structured point of view 41 00:02:33,893 --> 00:02:37,053 Speaker 4: for the All Blacks, Scott Hansen has been running the 42 00:02:37,053 --> 00:02:40,133 Speaker 4: All Blacks defense. He now has to flip entirely and 43 00:02:40,373 --> 00:02:45,693 Speaker 4: assume the attack brief. Tommody Allison, who was in the 44 00:02:45,733 --> 00:02:48,653 Speaker 4: All Blacks coaching group on a part time basis, is 45 00:02:49,053 --> 00:02:53,853 Speaker 4: a contact coach, is now leading the national team's defense. 46 00:02:54,453 --> 00:02:59,213 Speaker 4: You know, a well regarded, highly regarded coach, Tombody Allison. 47 00:02:59,333 --> 00:03:03,733 Speaker 4: But to be parachuted into that role straight to test 48 00:03:03,813 --> 00:03:08,733 Speaker 4: level is a huge ask in any sort of week, 49 00:03:08,813 --> 00:03:10,733 Speaker 4: let alone one where you're going up against the spring 50 00:03:10,773 --> 00:03:13,733 Speaker 4: box at Eden Park. So from your point of view, 51 00:03:13,733 --> 00:03:18,493 Speaker 4: how much of a disruption as Leanne McDonald's departure and 52 00:03:20,613 --> 00:03:22,693 Speaker 4: how do you think how and why do you think 53 00:03:22,733 --> 00:03:24,493 Speaker 4: it's come about so swiftly? 54 00:03:24,853 --> 00:03:27,133 Speaker 3: Yeah? I think this is the fascinating thing is that 55 00:03:27,173 --> 00:03:30,693 Speaker 3: they've decided five weeks in that there's not getting any better. 56 00:03:31,613 --> 00:03:35,453 Speaker 3: It's going to remain this way. That they're so diametrically opposed. 57 00:03:35,453 --> 00:03:37,733 Speaker 3: And I suppose, I suppose it's one thing, you know, 58 00:03:37,733 --> 00:03:40,053 Speaker 3: putting together a coaching staff on paper, it's another one 59 00:03:40,053 --> 00:03:43,213 Speaker 3: actually living it out and being a living, breathing coaching 60 00:03:43,253 --> 00:03:47,173 Speaker 3: team in the world of rugby. And you know Leon 61 00:03:47,733 --> 00:03:50,653 Speaker 3: last week Doneder Scott Robertson in twenty seventeen, that was 62 00:03:50,653 --> 00:03:53,573 Speaker 3: when he was as an assistant departed there, took some 63 00:03:53,613 --> 00:03:55,813 Speaker 3: time off with family that ended up as the Blues's 64 00:03:55,853 --> 00:03:59,053 Speaker 3: assistant originally and ended up as the head coach there 65 00:03:59,293 --> 00:04:02,413 Speaker 3: soon afterwards. But I guess maybe you know, there's if 66 00:04:02,413 --> 00:04:04,533 Speaker 3: there was some tension between the two, perhaps there was 67 00:04:04,573 --> 00:04:08,213 Speaker 3: a disagreement in the past that maybe Scott Robertson reverted 68 00:04:08,213 --> 00:04:10,093 Speaker 3: to the fact that actually just a good rugby coach 69 00:04:10,133 --> 00:04:11,693 Speaker 3: and once we get into all Black camp we'll be 70 00:04:11,733 --> 00:04:14,253 Speaker 3: able to figure these things out. But it does seem 71 00:04:14,253 --> 00:04:17,973 Speaker 3: like they're so diametrically opposed and the way they want 72 00:04:18,013 --> 00:04:21,293 Speaker 3: to play and coach rugby that it can't be resolved. 73 00:04:21,373 --> 00:04:24,293 Speaker 3: I think it is a disruption all of a sudden. Yes, 74 00:04:24,333 --> 00:04:29,053 Speaker 3: you're removing Lean McDonald and perhaps sharpening up or getting 75 00:04:29,093 --> 00:04:31,013 Speaker 3: a bit more cohesive and some of the messaging, but 76 00:04:31,013 --> 00:04:33,373 Speaker 3: you're also switching around some of the key briefs of 77 00:04:33,413 --> 00:04:35,893 Speaker 3: the team. You know, Scott Hansen on the defense side 78 00:04:35,933 --> 00:04:38,373 Speaker 3: of things moves to the attack as you mentioned, and 79 00:04:38,453 --> 00:04:41,613 Speaker 3: the time to yell Allison change as well. I think 80 00:04:41,693 --> 00:04:44,573 Speaker 3: it has to be disruptive there for Scott Hansen to 81 00:04:44,653 --> 00:04:47,413 Speaker 3: be preparing for the next four years really, because you 82 00:04:47,413 --> 00:04:48,933 Speaker 3: know he's going to be sorting out the defense of 83 00:04:48,973 --> 00:04:51,093 Speaker 3: the coach and then get the message the week after that. 84 00:04:51,133 --> 00:04:53,573 Speaker 3: For the at least the next year, he's going to 85 00:04:53,573 --> 00:04:56,653 Speaker 3: be looking at the attack of the side. So I 86 00:04:56,653 --> 00:04:59,453 Speaker 3: think there's no way for it to not be disruptive 87 00:04:59,453 --> 00:05:01,573 Speaker 3: in the All Blacks environments and the key for them 88 00:05:01,653 --> 00:05:04,253 Speaker 3: is how they move on past it and try and 89 00:05:04,253 --> 00:05:05,333 Speaker 3: get the results this weekend. 90 00:05:06,933 --> 00:05:08,693 Speaker 4: Yeah, I just want to pick up like couple of 91 00:05:08,693 --> 00:05:13,373 Speaker 4: points you make there about twenty seventeen and when Leon 92 00:05:13,533 --> 00:05:16,133 Speaker 4: was at the Crusaders, and my understanding there is that 93 00:05:16,173 --> 00:05:21,573 Speaker 4: there was actually a falling out around Leon's relationship with 94 00:05:21,653 --> 00:05:26,573 Speaker 4: Brad Moore and Leon moving back to Nelson. At the 95 00:05:26,573 --> 00:05:28,413 Speaker 4: time he said it was to be closer to family, 96 00:05:28,813 --> 00:05:31,413 Speaker 4: but he's obviously aspirational as well and wanting to be 97 00:05:31,453 --> 00:05:33,533 Speaker 4: a head coach and that came about from the Blues. 98 00:05:33,573 --> 00:05:36,773 Speaker 4: So clearly this is not the first time there's been 99 00:05:37,373 --> 00:05:42,573 Speaker 4: tension between Scott Robertson and Lea McDonald And the fact 100 00:05:42,573 --> 00:05:45,853 Speaker 4: of the matter is they've had twelve months to get 101 00:05:45,853 --> 00:05:48,773 Speaker 4: on the same page. And as you mentioned, you know, 102 00:05:48,933 --> 00:05:51,853 Speaker 4: there is a difference between coaching on paper and living 103 00:05:51,893 --> 00:05:53,693 Speaker 4: and breathing it in an All Black environment when you 104 00:05:53,733 --> 00:05:56,573 Speaker 4: have a shot gloss at home to the Pumas, and 105 00:05:56,653 --> 00:06:01,333 Speaker 4: obviously some difficulties getting past England as well. But Scott 106 00:06:01,373 --> 00:06:03,613 Speaker 4: Robinson was appointed head coach of the All Blacks in 107 00:06:03,733 --> 00:06:07,213 Speaker 4: March last year, and this was always going to be 108 00:06:07,253 --> 00:06:10,213 Speaker 4: his coaching team as far back as the year before 109 00:06:10,613 --> 00:06:12,693 Speaker 4: when he was sounded out to take over from me 110 00:06:12,773 --> 00:06:16,293 Speaker 4: and Foster. So he knew his coaching team so far out. 111 00:06:16,973 --> 00:06:21,093 Speaker 4: How did he not envision some form of issues, you know, 112 00:06:21,173 --> 00:06:24,413 Speaker 4: so to me to make this change. You know, they've 113 00:06:24,453 --> 00:06:30,213 Speaker 4: been applauded for their ability to you know, make this 114 00:06:30,333 --> 00:06:33,493 Speaker 4: decision so swiftly and not let it hang over the 115 00:06:33,533 --> 00:06:35,533 Speaker 4: team and drag out for the rest of the year. 116 00:06:35,893 --> 00:06:38,013 Speaker 4: And I think there is some truth to that, but 117 00:06:38,173 --> 00:06:41,333 Speaker 4: I also think that this just shouldn't have happened given 118 00:06:41,533 --> 00:06:43,933 Speaker 4: the long lead in time that they had, so to me, 119 00:06:44,013 --> 00:06:45,893 Speaker 4: it is a bit of an early black eye for 120 00:06:46,333 --> 00:06:50,133 Speaker 4: Scott Robinson's tenure. The only other point I'd make is 121 00:06:50,373 --> 00:06:52,493 Speaker 4: this is not the there's a bit of symmetry here 122 00:06:52,533 --> 00:06:55,053 Speaker 4: isn't there Because two years ago when the All Blacks 123 00:06:55,093 --> 00:06:58,453 Speaker 4: were in Johannesburg, they went through similar coaching up people 124 00:06:58,773 --> 00:07:02,053 Speaker 4: following their first home series loss to Ireland, and Jason 125 00:07:02,133 --> 00:07:05,213 Speaker 4: Ryan came in as All Black Spord's coach replaced John 126 00:07:05,253 --> 00:07:10,453 Speaker 4: Plumtree for the tests Allie Parks. So very spooky, sort 127 00:07:10,493 --> 00:07:11,973 Speaker 4: of similar circumstances there. 128 00:07:12,773 --> 00:07:15,253 Speaker 3: It certainly is. I guess a couple more things that 129 00:07:15,253 --> 00:07:19,813 Speaker 3: I want to touch on before we let this topic go. Look, 130 00:07:19,933 --> 00:07:22,373 Speaker 3: did Leon McDonald get a payout? I guess it's the question. 131 00:07:22,413 --> 00:07:26,053 Speaker 3: And does it have a restraint of trade to stop 132 00:07:26,093 --> 00:07:30,053 Speaker 3: and coaching international teams abroad for a certain period of 133 00:07:30,053 --> 00:07:31,653 Speaker 3: time will be I don't think that was asked of 134 00:07:31,693 --> 00:07:34,453 Speaker 3: Chris Lendrim. I haven't heard it clarified in recent days. 135 00:07:34,493 --> 00:07:37,573 Speaker 3: That's that's something I think is still sticking out and 136 00:07:37,893 --> 00:07:38,933 Speaker 3: probably needs to answered. 137 00:07:40,373 --> 00:07:44,093 Speaker 4: Yeah, my understanding is Leon was contracted for four years 138 00:07:44,413 --> 00:07:49,973 Speaker 4: as All Black's assistant coach, and while the negotiations of 139 00:07:50,133 --> 00:07:53,853 Speaker 4: his exit will be confidential, I have heard that he 140 00:07:54,413 --> 00:07:57,653 Speaker 4: got paid out for as much as two years. So 141 00:07:59,493 --> 00:08:05,653 Speaker 4: I've also been apparently head coaches of Super rugby teams 142 00:08:05,693 --> 00:08:09,773 Speaker 4: get paid anywhere from three hundred fifty thousand dollars, So 143 00:08:10,213 --> 00:08:12,813 Speaker 4: you can do the math on a potential payout there. 144 00:08:13,533 --> 00:08:16,493 Speaker 4: No one will really know other than Leon what the 145 00:08:16,973 --> 00:08:20,973 Speaker 4: terms and conditions around that, but he would have definitely 146 00:08:21,013 --> 00:08:23,533 Speaker 4: got a payout. He wouldn't have walked away empty handed. 147 00:08:23,973 --> 00:08:26,773 Speaker 4: And I doubt that there is a restraint of trade 148 00:08:26,813 --> 00:08:31,013 Speaker 4: because you know he's walking away as a free agent. 149 00:08:31,053 --> 00:08:33,933 Speaker 4: I don't think you can put too many caveats around that, 150 00:08:34,293 --> 00:08:38,453 Speaker 4: particularly given the circumstances. So you know, maybe Joe Schmidt 151 00:08:38,933 --> 00:08:41,573 Speaker 4: taps them up, gives them a phone call. They've got 152 00:08:41,573 --> 00:08:46,173 Speaker 4: a strong relationship. They work together at the Blues Purse 153 00:08:46,453 --> 00:08:50,013 Speaker 4: with Schmidt Men's touring him, then Schmidt coming on board 154 00:08:50,213 --> 00:08:54,093 Speaker 4: as an assistant coach. So in terms of Leon's future, 155 00:08:54,133 --> 00:08:57,213 Speaker 4: you'd have to think it does lie potentially with another 156 00:08:57,253 --> 00:08:59,933 Speaker 4: international team abroad, because does he really want to go 157 00:09:00,013 --> 00:09:01,053 Speaker 4: back to coaching. 158 00:09:01,093 --> 00:09:04,013 Speaker 3: Super Rugby keeps some of those financial figures you're plucking 159 00:09:04,013 --> 00:09:06,693 Speaker 3: out there limb of sort of rugby director presenter salaries 160 00:09:06,693 --> 00:09:12,213 Speaker 3: that we're talking about. Finally, the other one I want 161 00:09:12,213 --> 00:09:14,333 Speaker 3: to throw at you is will the All Blacks look 162 00:09:14,333 --> 00:09:16,853 Speaker 3: for a long term replacement? Now this set up that 163 00:09:16,893 --> 00:09:18,573 Speaker 3: we've touched on a couple of times is going to 164 00:09:18,573 --> 00:09:20,733 Speaker 3: be in place. It's seemingly for the rest of the year. 165 00:09:20,773 --> 00:09:23,333 Speaker 3: But I guess once they get through these fourteen tests 166 00:09:23,373 --> 00:09:25,453 Speaker 3: this year, they can sort of reassess and see where 167 00:09:25,453 --> 00:09:27,013 Speaker 3: the holes are and see if they need to cover 168 00:09:27,093 --> 00:09:28,973 Speaker 3: things up. So I suppose the jury's out there. But 169 00:09:29,653 --> 00:09:31,773 Speaker 3: once your gutfield and do you think they'll look to 170 00:09:31,893 --> 00:09:35,973 Speaker 3: replace him on a full time basis next year or 171 00:09:36,013 --> 00:09:40,653 Speaker 3: will these two changes have made sort of cover it. 172 00:09:40,653 --> 00:09:44,813 Speaker 4: It's a very interesting question. I'm not sure. I think 173 00:09:45,053 --> 00:09:48,213 Speaker 4: long term they probably would look to replace them. But 174 00:09:49,933 --> 00:09:52,813 Speaker 4: there's got to be some financial considerations here, given the 175 00:09:52,813 --> 00:09:56,213 Speaker 4: payouts that the All Blacks have made in recent years, 176 00:09:56,253 --> 00:09:59,333 Speaker 4: not just to Leon but to pray More and John 177 00:09:59,333 --> 00:10:00,293 Speaker 4: Plumtree as well. 178 00:10:00,413 --> 00:10:01,453 Speaker 3: So I under. 179 00:10:03,293 --> 00:10:05,253 Speaker 4: That's some big figures. 180 00:10:08,453 --> 00:10:10,493 Speaker 3: Yes, some big figures that have been talked about. I 181 00:10:10,493 --> 00:10:14,293 Speaker 3: guess do you put someone of the mix that may 182 00:10:14,333 --> 00:10:16,133 Speaker 3: not necessarily work as well or do you trust that 183 00:10:16,293 --> 00:10:19,653 Speaker 3: these two And you know, Tamothy Alison long Bent outed 184 00:10:19,693 --> 00:10:23,453 Speaker 3: as a probable Crusader's coach head coached from twenty twenty six. 185 00:10:23,813 --> 00:10:25,733 Speaker 3: If he's to stay on permanently, with the all Blacks 186 00:10:25,733 --> 00:10:28,813 Speaker 3: that goes out the window as well, So all sorts 187 00:10:28,813 --> 00:10:31,493 Speaker 3: of threads to this story which is still developing and 188 00:10:31,493 --> 00:10:33,573 Speaker 3: still bubbling away as we get into test week in 189 00:10:33,613 --> 00:10:35,613 Speaker 3: the Republic. But that's where I want to turn the 190 00:10:35,653 --> 00:10:39,213 Speaker 3: attention to now on Ragpy Director Test Week in South Africa, 191 00:10:39,333 --> 00:10:42,453 Speaker 3: All Blacks and South Africa. Now, by the time you 192 00:10:42,493 --> 00:10:45,213 Speaker 3: hear this Russia Rasmus as he usually does naming his 193 00:10:45,253 --> 00:10:49,213 Speaker 3: team a Tuesday local time, the whispers are that even 194 00:10:49,293 --> 00:10:53,613 Speaker 3: ead Sabeth is likely arts, which adds to locking crisis 195 00:10:53,653 --> 00:10:57,573 Speaker 3: for the spring Box, which is about four or five deep. 196 00:10:57,933 --> 00:11:00,733 Speaker 3: Franco Mosta not playing Luda Yaga even eat Sabeth in 197 00:11:00,773 --> 00:11:03,933 Speaker 3: the mix as well, so they're right down on their 198 00:11:04,053 --> 00:11:07,573 Speaker 3: numbers in the second row. But Jee, there's nothing actually 199 00:11:07,573 --> 00:11:09,653 Speaker 3: going like an all Black South Africa teaste doesn't. 200 00:11:09,453 --> 00:11:14,733 Speaker 4: Limb doesn't get any b or earlier, and there's been 201 00:11:14,773 --> 00:11:17,493 Speaker 4: some amazing moments over there is that haven't there And 202 00:11:18,373 --> 00:11:24,533 Speaker 4: nothing quite compares to Alice Park, the Springbok spiritual home, altitude, 203 00:11:25,013 --> 00:11:29,173 Speaker 4: just the atmosphere around it, the team bus rolling in 204 00:11:29,253 --> 00:11:32,013 Speaker 4: getting pelted with fruit back in the day, not so 205 00:11:32,133 --> 00:11:37,733 Speaker 4: much anymore, but it really is a magical experience and 206 00:11:38,133 --> 00:11:40,213 Speaker 4: it is an arena that brings out the All Blacks best. 207 00:11:40,213 --> 00:11:44,133 Speaker 4: They've actually got a phenomenal record there in recent times. 208 00:11:44,133 --> 00:11:46,533 Speaker 4: I think they've won something like three of their past 209 00:11:47,093 --> 00:11:49,733 Speaker 4: four Tests at Alice Park and you only have to 210 00:11:49,733 --> 00:11:54,293 Speaker 4: go back two years to that response that saved Ian 211 00:11:54,333 --> 00:11:58,413 Speaker 4: Foster's coaching career with the All Black student. It's coming 212 00:11:58,413 --> 00:12:04,093 Speaker 4: one week after Mombala where they were completely outplayed, and 213 00:12:04,333 --> 00:12:06,533 Speaker 4: the Springboks are in great shape, aren't they. They're a 214 00:12:06,533 --> 00:12:09,213 Speaker 4: better team now than they were at the World Cup, 215 00:12:09,573 --> 00:12:13,413 Speaker 4: with Tony Brown coming on board and evolving their attacking game. 216 00:12:13,773 --> 00:12:20,013 Speaker 4: Jason Ryan noted some little evolutions in their line out moves. 217 00:12:20,813 --> 00:12:23,373 Speaker 4: Certainly you've seen that with the depth of their back 218 00:12:23,453 --> 00:12:26,813 Speaker 4: line play and some of their ability to use the 219 00:12:26,813 --> 00:12:30,453 Speaker 4: ball on the air, and they've just got phenomenal depth. 220 00:12:30,533 --> 00:12:34,053 Speaker 4: They rotated throughout that series in Australia two Tests against 221 00:12:34,053 --> 00:12:36,773 Speaker 4: the Wallabies and they did it comfortably despite making I 222 00:12:36,773 --> 00:12:39,293 Speaker 4: think it was ten starting or ten changes to their 223 00:12:39,333 --> 00:12:43,133 Speaker 4: squad between Brisbane and Perth, and that's something they've done 224 00:12:43,213 --> 00:12:45,893 Speaker 4: over the past four years. So this is a huge 225 00:12:45,973 --> 00:12:49,253 Speaker 4: challenge for the All Blacks. You know, disruption aside with 226 00:12:49,293 --> 00:12:53,253 Speaker 4: the assistant with Leo McDonald leaving, they have been really 227 00:12:53,293 --> 00:12:56,613 Speaker 4: patchy this year, so they've got everything to prove this 228 00:12:56,693 --> 00:12:57,773 Speaker 4: week I. 229 00:12:57,853 --> 00:13:00,573 Speaker 3: Do, and it's got interesting to see whether things have 230 00:13:00,613 --> 00:13:04,253 Speaker 3: been left in the tank and set moves whatever. You know, 231 00:13:04,493 --> 00:13:06,533 Speaker 3: what do you think have been left in the tank? 232 00:13:06,533 --> 00:13:09,493 Speaker 3: Because I know the on McDonald go on, but what 233 00:13:09,893 --> 00:13:12,973 Speaker 3: four sorry five tests inst did Jason Holns tenure of 234 00:13:13,053 --> 00:13:15,973 Speaker 3: strip play coach and really haven't seen too many stripe 235 00:13:15,973 --> 00:13:19,413 Speaker 3: players from the All Blacks so far in his tenure. 236 00:13:19,453 --> 00:13:22,933 Speaker 3: So interesting to see what is cooking this weekend. The 237 00:13:22,973 --> 00:13:24,773 Speaker 3: spring Box go in his favorites and it's been a 238 00:13:24,853 --> 00:13:28,853 Speaker 3: rarity in recent times. I guess how much will the 239 00:13:28,853 --> 00:13:33,293 Speaker 3: World Cup final last year way on some of these 240 00:13:33,333 --> 00:13:36,253 Speaker 3: players from the All Blacks perspective that are going out 241 00:13:36,293 --> 00:13:38,413 Speaker 3: in there and playing this test match this weekend. 242 00:13:39,893 --> 00:13:41,853 Speaker 4: It's an interesting dynamic, is that, because you've had a 243 00:13:41,853 --> 00:13:45,413 Speaker 4: lot of post World Cup departures, particularly for the All Blacks, 244 00:13:45,413 --> 00:13:48,413 Speaker 4: but there is a real core group that did feature 245 00:13:49,213 --> 00:13:53,973 Speaker 4: in that final and had so many different experiences against 246 00:13:54,013 --> 00:13:56,293 Speaker 4: the All Blacks in recent tie against the spring Box. 247 00:13:56,333 --> 00:13:59,933 Speaker 4: Sorry you look at that Twickenham game that that record defeat. 248 00:14:00,013 --> 00:14:03,333 Speaker 4: Jason Ryan talked about how much he learned from that 249 00:14:03,373 --> 00:14:07,373 Speaker 4: in terms of the physicality that the spring Box brought 250 00:14:07,413 --> 00:14:10,493 Speaker 4: to blow the All Black away that night. Look, I 251 00:14:10,533 --> 00:14:13,853 Speaker 4: don't think any All Black ever gets over losing a 252 00:14:13,853 --> 00:14:16,493 Speaker 4: World Cup final, no matter what the circumstances are. You've 253 00:14:16,493 --> 00:14:19,733 Speaker 4: got Sam Cain in that group. Of course, you know 254 00:14:19,773 --> 00:14:22,213 Speaker 4: the red card in that final. As you know, he 255 00:14:22,293 --> 00:14:25,853 Speaker 4: mentioned that's something he's going to have to live with forever. 256 00:14:26,973 --> 00:14:31,293 Speaker 4: But that hurt lingers for any All Black and it's 257 00:14:31,333 --> 00:14:33,773 Speaker 4: not something that they'd get over. So I don't know 258 00:14:33,773 --> 00:14:37,013 Speaker 4: if it's something they'd necessarily talk about, but it's something 259 00:14:37,013 --> 00:14:41,333 Speaker 4: that would be prevalents in their minds. What about the Springboks, 260 00:14:41,373 --> 00:14:45,973 Speaker 4: do you think they are more confident than they've ever 261 00:14:46,013 --> 00:14:48,333 Speaker 4: been when it comes to facing the All Blacks. 262 00:14:48,613 --> 00:14:50,693 Speaker 3: Yeah, I do. I think they genuinely are. That they've 263 00:14:50,693 --> 00:14:54,173 Speaker 3: won their last two, including a World Cup final against them, 264 00:14:54,453 --> 00:14:56,413 Speaker 3: and I think there's a sense that the All Blacks 265 00:14:56,453 --> 00:14:59,253 Speaker 3: sort of the lower EBB now than they have been 266 00:14:59,493 --> 00:15:01,493 Speaker 3: for quite some time in terms of a block of 267 00:15:01,573 --> 00:15:04,493 Speaker 3: say five five or so years, not just this year's 268 00:15:04,493 --> 00:15:07,173 Speaker 3: All Blacks, but say you pass it out and go. 269 00:15:07,733 --> 00:15:11,053 Speaker 3: This is the tw twenty twenty two, twenty four class 270 00:15:11,093 --> 00:15:14,853 Speaker 3: versus the twenty sixteen to twenty nineteen and backwards after that. 271 00:15:14,933 --> 00:15:17,413 Speaker 3: So I think there is a sense that, you know, 272 00:15:17,653 --> 00:15:20,773 Speaker 3: the spring Box have had the upper hand in recent years, 273 00:15:20,813 --> 00:15:24,253 Speaker 3: but the All Blacks have always done quite well, regardless 274 00:15:24,253 --> 00:15:26,773 Speaker 3: of the coach and who it is, of getting themselves 275 00:15:26,853 --> 00:15:28,373 Speaker 3: up for the big games. There was the one hundredth 276 00:15:28,413 --> 00:15:33,813 Speaker 3: Tests and twenty twenty two, there was sorry twenty three 277 00:15:33,893 --> 00:15:37,893 Speaker 3: one I think it was. There was you know, other 278 00:15:37,933 --> 00:15:39,813 Speaker 3: tests along the way that they've managed to get up for. 279 00:15:39,853 --> 00:15:41,773 Speaker 3: Obviously I didn't get up for a World Cup final, 280 00:15:41,813 --> 00:15:44,333 Speaker 3: but you know the Alice Park won with the backs 281 00:15:44,333 --> 00:15:46,373 Speaker 3: against the wall a couple of years ago. There's you know, 282 00:15:46,613 --> 00:15:49,253 Speaker 3: they have history of being able to get up for 283 00:15:49,573 --> 00:15:52,773 Speaker 3: big occasions. They got up to draw on everything they 284 00:15:52,813 --> 00:15:56,053 Speaker 3: possibly can. This week again Ethan de Grout out. He's 285 00:15:56,053 --> 00:15:59,253 Speaker 3: been left behind with that neck injury of his He 286 00:15:59,453 --> 00:16:02,013 Speaker 3: was originally expected to travel ruled out, so to Mighty 287 00:16:02,053 --> 00:16:05,453 Speaker 3: Williams gets another crack and certainly the biggest match of 288 00:16:05,453 --> 00:16:09,093 Speaker 3: his career, you know, scrummaging against one of the spring 289 00:16:09,133 --> 00:16:12,653 Speaker 3: Box starters this weekend at Alice Park. Doesn't get much 290 00:16:12,653 --> 00:16:14,973 Speaker 3: bigger than that for someone like to Mighty coming in 291 00:16:15,053 --> 00:16:18,493 Speaker 3: as the second choice starting prop for the All Blacks 292 00:16:18,933 --> 00:16:20,053 Speaker 3: in the one jumper. 293 00:16:21,013 --> 00:16:23,693 Speaker 4: That's right, And there has been so much talk, hasn't 294 00:16:23,693 --> 00:16:26,293 Speaker 4: there this year? I guessed about the dominance of the 295 00:16:26,293 --> 00:16:30,773 Speaker 4: All Black scrum. It's been easily the best aspect of 296 00:16:30,813 --> 00:16:33,893 Speaker 4: their game. They've used as a weapon where possible. They 297 00:16:33,893 --> 00:16:37,533 Speaker 4: couldn't use it against the Pumas in Wellington because there 298 00:16:37,533 --> 00:16:39,773 Speaker 4: wasn't a scrum for sixty minutes and that did really 299 00:16:39,853 --> 00:16:43,573 Speaker 4: hurt them. It's a facet of their game that they 300 00:16:43,573 --> 00:16:46,373 Speaker 4: pride themselves on. But I think the group is a 301 00:16:46,413 --> 00:16:49,733 Speaker 4: big loss. But it is interesting to Mighty Williams played 302 00:16:50,253 --> 00:16:54,173 Speaker 4: against the box in the World Cup final. Even Fletcher Neul, 303 00:16:54,253 --> 00:16:58,613 Speaker 4: the second choice tight haired, made his debut two years 304 00:16:58,653 --> 00:17:02,213 Speaker 4: ago at Alice Park. So you know, some young guys 305 00:17:02,213 --> 00:17:06,493 Speaker 4: do have experience against the box. But you've also got 306 00:17:06,533 --> 00:17:09,133 Speaker 4: to be prepared for eighty plus minutes, don't you. With 307 00:17:09,453 --> 00:17:12,493 Speaker 4: the bomb squad, we haven't seen a seven to one 308 00:17:12,493 --> 00:17:15,693 Speaker 4: bench I think from the spring box this year. Is 309 00:17:15,733 --> 00:17:18,093 Speaker 4: this the week that they'll try it on to try 310 00:17:18,133 --> 00:17:19,973 Speaker 4: and you know, really come over the top of the 311 00:17:19,973 --> 00:17:21,173 Speaker 4: All Black said altitude. 312 00:17:21,333 --> 00:17:22,973 Speaker 3: Well, as much as you as I think you know, 313 00:17:23,013 --> 00:17:24,773 Speaker 3: hopefully the All Blacks have been keeping things in reserve. 314 00:17:24,813 --> 00:17:27,173 Speaker 3: I'm sure Russia r Astmus has got something up his 315 00:17:27,253 --> 00:17:29,253 Speaker 3: sleeve and would not surprise me to see a seven 316 00:17:29,253 --> 00:17:32,293 Speaker 3: to one bench, although maybe the depth issues they've got 317 00:17:32,293 --> 00:17:35,653 Speaker 3: at Locke might just prevent them doing something like that 318 00:17:35,693 --> 00:17:38,253 Speaker 3: this week. They may hold on to that for Cape 319 00:17:38,293 --> 00:17:42,173 Speaker 3: Tail and potentially next week. Look a fascinating game, Liam. 320 00:17:42,253 --> 00:17:44,893 Speaker 3: In one word, what do the All Blacks need to 321 00:17:44,933 --> 00:17:47,773 Speaker 3: do on Sunday morning, New zeal In time to get 322 00:17:47,813 --> 00:17:49,813 Speaker 3: the win and go well? I say one nil up 323 00:17:49,813 --> 00:17:52,013 Speaker 3: in the series, but you know, beat the spring box 324 00:17:52,053 --> 00:17:55,453 Speaker 3: as the primary objective and get some Rugby Championship points. 325 00:17:56,773 --> 00:17:59,093 Speaker 4: Look, I think with the box, it all just starts 326 00:17:59,093 --> 00:18:02,893 Speaker 4: with physicality. You have to be desperate before you need 327 00:18:02,933 --> 00:18:06,253 Speaker 4: to be Basically, you have to start well. You have 328 00:18:06,373 --> 00:18:11,013 Speaker 4: to match them physically. It's in the mall defense, it's 329 00:18:11,053 --> 00:18:12,813 Speaker 4: at the breakdown where the All Blacks have been a 330 00:18:12,813 --> 00:18:16,893 Speaker 4: bit patchy this year. It's whether you're carrying clean and 331 00:18:17,053 --> 00:18:19,853 Speaker 4: you know, we've talked a lot about the lack of 332 00:18:20,253 --> 00:18:23,013 Speaker 4: dominant ball carriers and that All Blacks packed this year. 333 00:18:23,053 --> 00:18:26,173 Speaker 4: They have to go forward to provide that platform because 334 00:18:26,933 --> 00:18:30,453 Speaker 4: questions have been asked over to j Pedenara and Damien McKenzie. 335 00:18:30,493 --> 00:18:33,293 Speaker 4: And if they don't have that platform and under pressure, 336 00:18:33,733 --> 00:18:35,853 Speaker 4: if they can't get out of their own ends as 337 00:18:35,853 --> 00:18:37,733 Speaker 4: we saw against the Pumas and Wellington, then they're going 338 00:18:37,733 --> 00:18:40,413 Speaker 4: to be in strife. So physicality for me, Elliott, they 339 00:18:40,453 --> 00:18:43,453 Speaker 4: just they have to meet fire with fire otherwise they 340 00:18:43,533 --> 00:18:44,653 Speaker 4: really don't stand a chance. 341 00:18:45,453 --> 00:18:48,733 Speaker 3: My one word is patience because I don't think we've 342 00:18:48,733 --> 00:18:50,773 Speaker 3: seen that enough from the All Blacks this year. Building 343 00:18:50,773 --> 00:18:53,813 Speaker 3: attacks inside the red zone of the opposition. That's been 344 00:18:53,853 --> 00:18:57,173 Speaker 3: down to some good defense from Argentina also England, but 345 00:18:57,373 --> 00:18:59,653 Speaker 3: when they've got they haven't been able to build from 346 00:18:59,693 --> 00:19:02,173 Speaker 3: the forty to thirty inside the twenty two and then 347 00:19:02,173 --> 00:19:04,053 Speaker 3: trust themselves that they are going to get the reward 348 00:19:04,053 --> 00:19:06,333 Speaker 3: there sooner rather than the latter. Want to see that. 349 00:19:06,533 --> 00:19:10,573 Speaker 3: On Sunday morning, you hear live commentary on NEWSTALKSZMB, Goldsword 350 00:19:10,613 --> 00:19:13,293 Speaker 3: and iHeartRadio from three am. Have a few more thoughts 351 00:19:13,333 --> 00:19:15,133 Speaker 3: on that before we go, but time now for a 352 00:19:15,173 --> 00:19:17,973 Speaker 3: quick break on Rugby Direct. Thanks to our friends at 353 00:19:17,973 --> 00:19:18,893 Speaker 3: Folklift Solutions. 354 00:19:19,733 --> 00:19:23,773 Speaker 2: This is Rugby Direct, a podcast for real rugby fares 355 00:19:30,773 --> 00:19:31,693 Speaker 2: howard By News. 356 00:19:31,573 --> 00:19:35,653 Speaker 3: Talk time night for our Final four here on Rugby Direct, 357 00:19:36,293 --> 00:19:39,653 Speaker 3: as has now become customary, start the final four with 358 00:19:39,813 --> 00:19:42,133 Speaker 3: give us a highlight of the NPC or the Far 359 00:19:42,253 --> 00:19:44,093 Speaker 3: Apartment Cup. I'm actually going to go first here. I 360 00:19:44,733 --> 00:19:46,893 Speaker 3: watched and it's been a rarity in recent weeks. I've 361 00:19:46,933 --> 00:19:50,173 Speaker 3: been home on a Sunday afternoon and not working following 362 00:19:50,253 --> 00:19:52,813 Speaker 3: up All Black Story or things like that, but watched 363 00:19:53,613 --> 00:19:56,973 Speaker 3: two of the games at the same time or crossover. 364 00:19:57,813 --> 00:20:02,933 Speaker 3: It was Mutter Word two against Wellington and Otiger playing 365 00:20:02,973 --> 00:20:05,693 Speaker 3: Bay of Plenty. Those are two absolutely cracking games that 366 00:20:05,813 --> 00:20:08,853 Speaker 3: were close right until the end, plenty of dr in them, 367 00:20:09,733 --> 00:20:13,773 Speaker 3: so I thought they were both outstanding games. I thought 368 00:20:13,813 --> 00:20:16,853 Speaker 3: Man Over two was about to get Wellington, but they 369 00:20:17,013 --> 00:20:18,893 Speaker 3: just the Lions rolled over the top in the last 370 00:20:18,933 --> 00:20:21,893 Speaker 3: ten minutes and they've set themselves up for an interesting 371 00:20:21,933 --> 00:20:24,693 Speaker 3: week with that bit we've got going Liam. Of course, 372 00:20:24,773 --> 00:20:27,373 Speaker 3: next week you're hired of the NPTC Palmback Cup. 373 00:20:28,773 --> 00:20:30,973 Speaker 4: Yes, I think Ruggy Direct listeners are really hanging out 374 00:20:31,013 --> 00:20:32,333 Speaker 4: to see you in alliance. 375 00:20:32,853 --> 00:20:34,693 Speaker 3: I've had a few texts, tell me tell you why. 376 00:20:34,733 --> 00:20:35,573 Speaker 3: I've had a few texts. 377 00:20:37,213 --> 00:20:38,733 Speaker 4: I got to give the punt is what they want. 378 00:20:38,893 --> 00:20:42,973 Speaker 4: So no, that's going to be hotly anticipated. That Look, 379 00:20:43,013 --> 00:20:45,493 Speaker 4: I think we've talked about previously just how even the 380 00:20:45,853 --> 00:20:48,933 Speaker 4: NPC is this year, and we're seeing that with teams 381 00:20:48,973 --> 00:20:51,973 Speaker 4: like Auckland, an O and three start for the first 382 00:20:52,013 --> 00:20:56,373 Speaker 4: time I think in history. So there's a major union, 383 00:20:56,493 --> 00:21:00,973 Speaker 4: a powerhouse province under major pressure. You're seeing, you know, Tasman, 384 00:21:01,013 --> 00:21:04,253 Speaker 4: a traditional powerhouse in recent years, to find some real 385 00:21:04,373 --> 00:21:06,493 Speaker 4: form and they've got a shield. They've got the next 386 00:21:06,533 --> 00:21:09,293 Speaker 4: shield challenge against Hawkspace, so that's going to be an 387 00:21:09,293 --> 00:21:12,653 Speaker 4: absolute doozy. Teams like Otago coming to the fore showing 388 00:21:12,653 --> 00:21:14,693 Speaker 4: a bit of form as well. So I think it's 389 00:21:14,773 --> 00:21:20,053 Speaker 4: nice to see provinces outside the traditional bases really compete 390 00:21:20,093 --> 00:21:23,133 Speaker 4: and stand up because this is their time to do it, 391 00:21:23,213 --> 00:21:24,613 Speaker 4: and they are doing that this year. 392 00:21:25,013 --> 00:21:28,133 Speaker 3: They certainly are. They certainly are looking forward to the 393 00:21:28,173 --> 00:21:31,773 Speaker 3: week ahead and hopeing Canterbury gets up over Wellington top 394 00:21:31,813 --> 00:21:34,213 Speaker 3: of two of the final four. Your favorite Alice Park 395 00:21:34,333 --> 00:21:35,973 Speaker 3: memory or match, please. 396 00:21:37,373 --> 00:21:39,973 Speaker 4: There's been many fam there, Elliott, but I'm going to 397 00:21:40,053 --> 00:21:42,093 Speaker 4: go back to my I think it was my first 398 00:21:42,213 --> 00:21:45,933 Speaker 4: time at Alice Park actually, and it's my greatest match 399 00:21:45,973 --> 00:21:50,333 Speaker 4: in history. The All Blacks went to Alice Park and 400 00:21:51,093 --> 00:21:53,653 Speaker 4: the rugby championship was on the line. The spring Box 401 00:21:53,773 --> 00:21:58,933 Speaker 4: needed to score four triers to get five points, so 402 00:21:59,453 --> 00:22:02,373 Speaker 4: they actually had a lot of endeavor and gave it 403 00:22:02,453 --> 00:22:06,293 Speaker 4: a real crack for their style of rugby at that time. 404 00:22:06,733 --> 00:22:09,773 Speaker 4: Bill Black survived two yellow car to lam Messim and 405 00:22:10,813 --> 00:22:15,013 Speaker 4: Ben Franks came over the top to win there and 406 00:22:16,293 --> 00:22:20,013 Speaker 4: just sitting in those stands feeling a bit like a 407 00:22:20,093 --> 00:22:23,653 Speaker 4: fish out of water. With sixty four thousand rabid South Africans, 408 00:22:24,093 --> 00:22:27,133 Speaker 4: there's nothing quite like witnessing in All Blacks victory there. 409 00:22:27,253 --> 00:22:31,533 Speaker 4: So that's my favorite memory. But there's been many getting 410 00:22:31,613 --> 00:22:34,133 Speaker 4: up in the middle of the nights to talked about 411 00:22:34,133 --> 00:22:36,373 Speaker 4: today having a mile and a few biscuits back in 412 00:22:36,453 --> 00:22:40,013 Speaker 4: the day, and any New Zealand rugby fan would have 413 00:22:40,093 --> 00:22:43,733 Speaker 4: done that with their grandfathers or fathers. It's a bit 414 00:22:43,773 --> 00:22:46,253 Speaker 4: of a tradition, so I'll be doing that this week 415 00:22:46,293 --> 00:22:46,613 Speaker 4: as well. 416 00:22:47,293 --> 00:22:49,213 Speaker 3: Absolutely. Look, I'm going to go a bit closer and 417 00:22:49,373 --> 00:22:52,333 Speaker 3: say the Crusaders went over the Lions in twenty seventeen 418 00:22:52,733 --> 00:22:56,293 Speaker 3: that was outstanding crusaders almost out on their feet by 419 00:22:56,293 --> 00:22:57,693 Speaker 3: the very end of the game, it managed to take 420 00:22:57,733 --> 00:22:59,773 Speaker 3: the victory. There are several more I could have taken, 421 00:22:59,853 --> 00:23:02,453 Speaker 3: perhaps of it. Certainly World Cup Final in ninety five 422 00:23:02,573 --> 00:23:04,493 Speaker 3: might have gone a different way than Perhaps that would 423 00:23:04,533 --> 00:23:08,213 Speaker 3: have cracks the top spot for me. A couple more 424 00:23:08,333 --> 00:23:11,053 Speaker 3: coaching changes and topic three abroad we touched on them. 425 00:23:11,093 --> 00:23:14,493 Speaker 3: Mcdonnald obviously at the top, but news out today as 426 00:23:14,493 --> 00:23:18,813 Speaker 3: we recorded David nusafora heading for Scotland despite being employed 427 00:23:18,853 --> 00:23:23,093 Speaker 3: by Rugby Australia. He's gone to join Scotland and of 428 00:23:23,213 --> 00:23:26,573 Speaker 3: rugby type role and Felix Jones also out from the 429 00:23:26,693 --> 00:23:29,773 Speaker 3: England setup, which is a real surprise because he's incredibly 430 00:23:29,853 --> 00:23:32,653 Speaker 3: highly rated. Big wraps on him when they were down 431 00:23:32,733 --> 00:23:36,093 Speaker 3: here recently during their tour, of course, but he's quit 432 00:23:36,173 --> 00:23:39,133 Speaker 3: as defense coach. I believe he's still got a notice 433 00:23:39,173 --> 00:23:40,853 Speaker 3: period to work out, so he might be a run 434 00:23:40,933 --> 00:23:43,573 Speaker 3: for a wee bit longer as yet. But a couple 435 00:23:43,613 --> 00:23:46,893 Speaker 3: of big surprises there. So it's funny, isn't Liam. You know? 436 00:23:47,293 --> 00:23:50,013 Speaker 3: I guess what a year into the post World Cup 437 00:23:50,093 --> 00:23:53,573 Speaker 3: cycle and already there's some movement on the job market. 438 00:23:54,533 --> 00:23:57,093 Speaker 4: There is indeed, this is never a dull moment, and 439 00:23:57,293 --> 00:23:59,653 Speaker 4: their rugby world is there. Look, Felix Jones for me 440 00:23:59,813 --> 00:24:03,533 Speaker 4: was a massive shock, as you mentioned when England went 441 00:24:03,573 --> 00:24:08,013 Speaker 4: down here has rushed defense, caused the all Blacks all 442 00:24:08,093 --> 00:24:11,573 Speaker 4: sorts of problems and he was highly regarded at the 443 00:24:11,613 --> 00:24:15,333 Speaker 4: spring Box and you know, former Irish international, so that 444 00:24:15,453 --> 00:24:19,573 Speaker 4: is a real surprise. And I think their England's highly 445 00:24:19,653 --> 00:24:24,213 Speaker 4: regarded strength and conditioning train has been lured to Ireland 446 00:24:24,253 --> 00:24:27,773 Speaker 4: as well, So I think what we're seeing is money talks. 447 00:24:27,813 --> 00:24:30,733 Speaker 4: I don't know where Felix might pop up, but that's 448 00:24:30,773 --> 00:24:35,533 Speaker 4: a massive loss for England. David nusefhora wee bit of surprise, 449 00:24:35,693 --> 00:24:41,773 Speaker 4: but his role was as a consultant, so Scotland's curly 450 00:24:41,893 --> 00:24:44,413 Speaker 4: puts a head turning offer on the table for him, 451 00:24:44,933 --> 00:24:47,933 Speaker 4: and given what he did with Ireland, I think that's 452 00:24:47,973 --> 00:24:52,293 Speaker 4: a great get for them. Nusha not universally popular in Ireland, 453 00:24:52,413 --> 00:24:55,053 Speaker 4: but given the structures that they've got in place there 454 00:24:55,933 --> 00:24:59,573 Speaker 4: with their provinces and the national team, he'd have to 455 00:24:59,613 --> 00:25:02,693 Speaker 4: give him a big tick for what he's helped usher 456 00:25:02,773 --> 00:25:05,293 Speaker 4: in an Ireland. So a very handy pick up for 457 00:25:05,373 --> 00:25:06,173 Speaker 4: Scotland as well. 458 00:25:06,893 --> 00:25:09,333 Speaker 3: Yes, certainly he's been around the traps and seems to 459 00:25:09,413 --> 00:25:12,413 Speaker 3: know how to get those systems in place around the 460 00:25:12,493 --> 00:25:15,533 Speaker 3: rug big globe, and there's probably what Scotland needs, I 461 00:25:15,613 --> 00:25:17,813 Speaker 3: think just looking at some of the programs they've gone 462 00:25:17,813 --> 00:25:21,253 Speaker 3: at the moment and pathways through to their national side 463 00:25:21,653 --> 00:25:24,573 Speaker 3: and topic number for your toughest selection for the All 464 00:25:24,613 --> 00:25:27,893 Speaker 3: Blacks this week or what changes can you envisage making. 465 00:25:29,333 --> 00:25:31,573 Speaker 3: Do you see many changes coming to the All Black 466 00:25:31,653 --> 00:25:33,973 Speaker 3: side for Sunday morning Test match? 467 00:25:35,493 --> 00:25:39,013 Speaker 4: I don't you mentioned to Mighty Williams coming into lucid 468 00:25:39,053 --> 00:25:41,893 Speaker 4: prop I think Scott Barrett, but again so he'll come 469 00:25:41,973 --> 00:25:47,373 Speaker 4: back in the second row, probably alongside too Vay. You 470 00:25:47,413 --> 00:25:53,053 Speaker 4: would suspect with Patrick two Polo to not being present there. 471 00:25:54,173 --> 00:25:57,133 Speaker 4: The big questions for me are at open side, whether 472 00:25:57,173 --> 00:26:00,133 Speaker 4: the All Blacks promote potentially Sam Kine from the bench. 473 00:26:00,413 --> 00:26:04,853 Speaker 4: He's very experienced, you know, brings that real physical edge. 474 00:26:05,333 --> 00:26:07,933 Speaker 4: I would not be surprised to see that. And on 475 00:26:08,013 --> 00:26:12,373 Speaker 4: the left wing, whether Caleb Clark retains his place or 476 00:26:12,453 --> 00:26:15,173 Speaker 4: Mark Tala comes back. I think the rest of the 477 00:26:15,253 --> 00:26:17,693 Speaker 4: team will be fairly settled. I wouldn't be surprised to 478 00:26:17,733 --> 00:26:20,813 Speaker 4: see some of Penny Female perhaps come onto the bench. 479 00:26:20,973 --> 00:26:23,013 Speaker 4: I think Bill Blacks will need a bit of size 480 00:26:23,053 --> 00:26:29,013 Speaker 4: and physicality, but I think they will largely favor a 481 00:26:29,093 --> 00:26:33,253 Speaker 4: settled team, you know, particularly coming after that performance against 482 00:26:33,293 --> 00:26:36,133 Speaker 4: the Pumas, which was really convincing in the first half. 483 00:26:36,213 --> 00:26:38,613 Speaker 4: At least those starters went out and did the business, 484 00:26:38,733 --> 00:26:41,293 Speaker 4: So it would be pretty harsh to drop anyone, even 485 00:26:41,373 --> 00:26:44,933 Speaker 4: though Alice Park and the Box is a completely different proposition. 486 00:26:45,573 --> 00:26:47,333 Speaker 3: Do you stick with ricae Uani Center? 487 00:26:48,813 --> 00:26:52,693 Speaker 4: I think they will. Yeah, I think he's a guy. 488 00:26:53,893 --> 00:26:56,613 Speaker 4: It was a weird sort of two weeks, wasn't it, 489 00:26:56,653 --> 00:26:59,693 Speaker 4: the flip flop drop in one week, bringing back the next. 490 00:27:00,613 --> 00:27:05,613 Speaker 4: But I think Rico's strength actually, for a guy that's 491 00:27:05,653 --> 00:27:09,573 Speaker 4: looked at as an attacking weapon history does actually defensively 492 00:27:10,053 --> 00:27:12,813 Speaker 4: and that's where I think Angelina Brown paid the price 493 00:27:12,853 --> 00:27:15,133 Speaker 4: for that Wellington test tea. I think he fell off 494 00:27:15,173 --> 00:27:18,733 Speaker 4: four tackles and at test level that's really costly. So 495 00:27:18,973 --> 00:27:20,933 Speaker 4: I think they will stick with Rico. What about you? 496 00:27:21,453 --> 00:27:24,373 Speaker 4: You would you pick Sam Kaines? Do you think they will? 497 00:27:24,733 --> 00:27:27,533 Speaker 3: Well? I actually would, look, I think I mentioned a 498 00:27:27,533 --> 00:27:29,933 Speaker 3: couple weeks ago. I'd be quite end to see Ardisavim 499 00:27:30,093 --> 00:27:32,413 Speaker 3: to open so flank and Wallace to Tez at number eight. 500 00:27:32,533 --> 00:27:34,653 Speaker 3: That would have been against Sergeancy. I don't think that's 501 00:27:34,693 --> 00:27:37,173 Speaker 3: a change to make for this week. I think Sam 502 00:27:37,253 --> 00:27:39,333 Speaker 3: Kaine's a player you want. People say, well, he's leaving 503 00:27:39,493 --> 00:27:41,533 Speaker 3: in the year, but so is TJ Petnara, and he's 504 00:27:41,813 --> 00:27:44,613 Speaker 3: you would say, lucky to start this week as well. 505 00:27:44,813 --> 00:27:46,733 Speaker 3: I think you packed the side that is going to 506 00:27:46,813 --> 00:27:48,373 Speaker 3: win you the Test match, not the one that you 507 00:27:48,413 --> 00:27:51,213 Speaker 3: want to win a Test match with in twenty twenty five. 508 00:27:51,373 --> 00:27:54,053 Speaker 3: So for me, Sam Kaine, you want that physicality, you 509 00:27:54,093 --> 00:27:58,493 Speaker 3: want that brute strength of his and the amount of 510 00:27:58,533 --> 00:28:01,293 Speaker 3: tackles that he'll be able to get through. I think 511 00:28:01,333 --> 00:28:04,373 Speaker 3: you need everything that he can possibly deliver. So i'd 512 00:28:04,413 --> 00:28:06,573 Speaker 3: make that change. Maybe Dlden bubble Lee he comes off 513 00:28:06,613 --> 00:28:08,733 Speaker 3: the bench, or yet look at a fee now for 514 00:28:09,213 --> 00:28:12,133 Speaker 3: some explosiveness. But that certainly seems like one change that 515 00:28:13,013 --> 00:28:16,173 Speaker 3: the All Black Selectors could Tampa with. That team is 516 00:28:16,413 --> 00:28:20,053 Speaker 3: out around dinner time New Zealand on Thursday. Of course, 517 00:28:20,093 --> 00:28:22,213 Speaker 3: the game three eight in New Zealand time. You'll hear 518 00:28:22,253 --> 00:28:24,853 Speaker 3: it on News Talk ZMB, Goldsport and our Heart Radio. 519 00:28:24,853 --> 00:28:27,093 Speaker 3: You can follow it on indied hero dot cot or 520 00:28:27,133 --> 00:28:30,533 Speaker 3: India and all the analysis after that as well. Liam 521 00:28:30,653 --> 00:28:33,053 Speaker 3: My thanks to you as always for jumping on and 522 00:28:33,173 --> 00:28:35,853 Speaker 3: joining us on Rugby Director. I've been awake for more 523 00:28:35,893 --> 00:28:37,933 Speaker 3: than twenty four hours now, so it might be time 524 00:28:37,973 --> 00:28:38,693 Speaker 3: for a week nine eyes. 525 00:28:40,013 --> 00:28:43,253 Speaker 4: You get some rice, get over to Nelson Mandela Square, 526 00:28:43,813 --> 00:28:45,933 Speaker 4: get a hearty steak and have some bullt on this 527 00:28:46,093 --> 00:28:49,213 Speaker 4: week and save you that atmosphere because there's nothing in 528 00:28:49,253 --> 00:28:50,013 Speaker 4: world Roagby like it. 529 00:28:50,053 --> 00:28:52,813 Speaker 3: Elliott looking forward to it. Thank you very much, Liam, 530 00:28:52,933 --> 00:28:55,133 Speaker 3: and thanks to Dan good One for putting this podcast together. 531 00:28:55,213 --> 00:28:57,213 Speaker 3: It has been Rugby Direct. Thanks to our friends at 532 00:28:57,213 --> 00:29:01,373 Speaker 3: Access Solutions lifting you and your business to a higher level. 533 00:29:01,413 --> 00:29:02,533 Speaker 3: We will see you next week 534 00:29:11,613 --> 00:29:14,533 Speaker 1: For more from Newstalk set B listen live on air 535 00:29:14,733 --> 00:29:17,413 Speaker 1: or online and keep our shows with you wherever you 536 00:29:17,533 --> 00:29:19,893 Speaker 1: go with our podcasts on iHeartRadio