1 00:00:09,093 --> 00:00:12,693 Speaker 1: You're listening to a podcast from News Talks'd be follow 2 00:00:12,773 --> 00:00:16,133 Speaker 1: this and our wide range of podcasts now on iHeartRadio. 3 00:00:16,733 --> 00:00:19,653 Speaker 2: For Astronauts on NASA's Artemis two mission are on their 4 00:00:19,692 --> 00:00:22,973 Speaker 2: way back home after a dramatic lunar flyby that saw 5 00:00:22,973 --> 00:00:25,813 Speaker 2: them travel further from Earth than any other humans. Theyre 6 00:00:25,853 --> 00:00:28,693 Speaker 2: due for re entry tomorrow, New Zealand. Time to talk 7 00:00:28,693 --> 00:00:31,453 Speaker 2: about the mission's significance. We are joined by Richard Easter, 8 00:00:31,813 --> 00:00:36,773 Speaker 2: astrophysicist and physics professor at Auckland University. Professor, Good afternoon. 9 00:00:37,053 --> 00:00:40,973 Speaker 3: Good afternoon, So how are the artemist? How is the 10 00:00:41,173 --> 00:00:43,932 Speaker 3: Artemis mission more advanced than the Apollo missions? 11 00:00:45,333 --> 00:00:49,253 Speaker 4: It's more advanced than the sense that it's obviously using 12 00:00:49,452 --> 00:00:53,133 Speaker 4: computers and technologies that are fifty years ahead of where 13 00:00:53,173 --> 00:00:56,013 Speaker 4: Apollo was. But on the other hand, you know, it's 14 00:00:56,093 --> 00:00:58,413 Speaker 4: using a you know, it looks very similar to the 15 00:00:58,453 --> 00:00:59,933 Speaker 4: Apollo capsule, but slightly bigger. 16 00:01:00,173 --> 00:01:02,933 Speaker 2: Yes, So it's been fascinating to watch, Professor, over the 17 00:01:03,053 --> 00:01:05,973 Speaker 2: last ten days. What are we learning? What is NASA 18 00:01:06,093 --> 00:01:09,732 Speaker 2: learning from this particular mission and sending those four humans 19 00:01:09,773 --> 00:01:10,493 Speaker 2: into deep space? 20 00:01:13,333 --> 00:01:15,212 Speaker 4: Nine percent of what they're trying to do here is 21 00:01:15,253 --> 00:01:19,532 Speaker 4: to test the technology. It's essentially a test flight of 22 00:01:19,572 --> 00:01:21,452 Speaker 4: the vehicles that they want to use to go back 23 00:01:21,453 --> 00:01:23,813 Speaker 4: to the Moon on a regular basis. There's been some 24 00:01:24,013 --> 00:01:26,533 Speaker 4: science done, but that's very much the icing on top 25 00:01:26,572 --> 00:01:27,173 Speaker 4: of the cake here. 26 00:01:28,173 --> 00:01:31,092 Speaker 3: So they went further away from Earth than any humans 27 00:01:31,133 --> 00:01:33,493 Speaker 3: they have ever been before. How does that work out? 28 00:01:33,652 --> 00:01:35,253 Speaker 3: Is it just a different path than any of the 29 00:01:35,292 --> 00:01:37,973 Speaker 3: Apollos took, or different lineup of the moon? 30 00:01:38,813 --> 00:01:41,773 Speaker 4: Different slightly different lineup of the moon, slightly different paths. 31 00:01:41,613 --> 00:01:46,093 Speaker 4: It's not a huge extra distance, and it's partly just 32 00:01:46,133 --> 00:01:47,853 Speaker 4: the choice of all bit that they've used to swing 33 00:01:47,893 --> 00:01:49,933 Speaker 4: them around the back of the moon they get. One 34 00:01:50,013 --> 00:01:52,533 Speaker 4: of the cool things about this vision is or those trippers, 35 00:01:52,813 --> 00:01:54,893 Speaker 4: you got to see a photo of, you know, the 36 00:01:54,973 --> 00:01:57,333 Speaker 4: back side of the whole moon, and that's not something 37 00:01:57,333 --> 00:02:00,333 Speaker 4: that humanized have kind of been able to take in previously. 38 00:02:00,493 --> 00:02:02,973 Speaker 3: The stupidest thing I saw online was someone saying, this 39 00:02:03,013 --> 00:02:05,493 Speaker 3: is rubbish. What's lighting up the dark side of the 40 00:02:05,573 --> 00:02:07,892 Speaker 3: moon the sun? 41 00:02:07,933 --> 00:02:12,252 Speaker 2: New Oh that is gold. There's good stuff right there? 42 00:02:13,293 --> 00:02:16,333 Speaker 5: So yeah, so yeah, no, that's that. 43 00:02:17,413 --> 00:02:20,613 Speaker 3: Yes, they thought they've got a real got you there, 44 00:02:20,853 --> 00:02:23,933 Speaker 3: so of course it's still got a land so you know, 45 00:02:24,173 --> 00:02:26,693 Speaker 3: how dangerous is that part of this set up? How 46 00:02:26,773 --> 00:02:28,532 Speaker 3: much more to go? 47 00:02:29,773 --> 00:02:32,293 Speaker 4: I mean, I think that's the that's in some ways 48 00:02:32,573 --> 00:02:34,133 Speaker 4: the most dangerous part of all. 49 00:02:34,613 --> 00:02:37,213 Speaker 5: You know, during the take the launch. 50 00:02:36,933 --> 00:02:40,292 Speaker 4: If anything goes wrong with the rocket, the capsule has 51 00:02:40,293 --> 00:02:42,132 Speaker 4: this little rocket on top of it that can pull 52 00:02:42,173 --> 00:02:45,292 Speaker 4: it free. Whereas everything goes wrong during the re entry, 53 00:02:45,373 --> 00:02:48,893 Speaker 4: then there's no way out. And it is very challenging. 54 00:02:49,573 --> 00:02:51,893 Speaker 4: They're going to hit that atmosphere faster than any other 55 00:02:52,173 --> 00:02:56,213 Speaker 4: spacecraft has done before, and they've got to slow down 56 00:02:56,213 --> 00:02:59,173 Speaker 4: from about forty thousand kilometers now to resting in the 57 00:02:59,173 --> 00:03:02,252 Speaker 4: ocean space of you know, just just a ten or 58 00:03:02,293 --> 00:03:06,013 Speaker 4: twenty minutes, and that heats the spacecraft enormously, and so 59 00:03:06,053 --> 00:03:07,893 Speaker 4: the spacecraft has to be protected against that. 60 00:03:08,333 --> 00:03:10,573 Speaker 3: How much is that automated and how much is it 61 00:03:10,853 --> 00:03:13,252 Speaker 3: slight adjustion adjustments as they come in. 62 00:03:13,813 --> 00:03:18,173 Speaker 4: Once it starts, it's they're pretty much that they are 63 00:03:18,173 --> 00:03:20,013 Speaker 4: not so much automated, but it's you know, it hits 64 00:03:20,053 --> 00:03:22,493 Speaker 4: the atmosphere like a rock, and you know, they can 65 00:03:22,532 --> 00:03:25,373 Speaker 4: steer it as they come in, but once once that 66 00:03:25,493 --> 00:03:28,213 Speaker 4: process gets underway, then they're relying on the aerodynamics. 67 00:03:28,333 --> 00:03:31,053 Speaker 2: It's going to be incredible to watch. So you mentioned before, 68 00:03:31,053 --> 00:03:33,093 Speaker 2: you know, obviously a big part of this mission is 69 00:03:33,093 --> 00:03:36,213 Speaker 2: testing that technology. Is there a good chunk of it 70 00:03:36,733 --> 00:03:38,933 Speaker 2: that is also inspiring the public? You know, it's been 71 00:03:38,973 --> 00:03:41,093 Speaker 2: a long time since we've had humans in space and 72 00:03:41,133 --> 00:03:43,653 Speaker 2: that imagery you talked about and some of the things 73 00:03:43,653 --> 00:03:46,213 Speaker 2: that we've heard from the astronauts themselves. Is that a 74 00:03:46,213 --> 00:03:47,493 Speaker 2: part of a mission likeness? 75 00:03:48,173 --> 00:03:50,973 Speaker 5: I think it absolutely is. I mean that lends into 76 00:03:51,013 --> 00:03:51,693 Speaker 5: this very heavily. 77 00:03:51,813 --> 00:03:54,933 Speaker 4: They talk about the atomist generations, you know, that counterpoint 78 00:03:54,973 --> 00:03:58,253 Speaker 4: to the Apollo generation of the nineteen sixties, And I 79 00:03:58,333 --> 00:04:01,213 Speaker 4: must admit I've been surprised at the extent to which, 80 00:04:01,253 --> 00:04:03,813 Speaker 4: you know, both doing media about this and just talking 81 00:04:03,853 --> 00:04:06,933 Speaker 4: to people, that this has gone you know, people's attention 82 00:04:07,053 --> 00:04:08,653 Speaker 4: and in a positive way, in a way a lot 83 00:04:08,653 --> 00:04:10,653 Speaker 4: of other things in space does not. So I think 84 00:04:10,693 --> 00:04:12,373 Speaker 4: from that point of view, I think I think people 85 00:04:12,453 --> 00:04:14,453 Speaker 4: are really excited. You know, it seems like this genuine 86 00:04:14,453 --> 00:04:15,293 Speaker 4: excite under about it. 87 00:04:15,413 --> 00:04:19,013 Speaker 3: Yeah, it's great seeing people do something constructive rather than destructive. 88 00:04:19,333 --> 00:04:22,053 Speaker 5: I guess there is that. 89 00:04:22,373 --> 00:04:25,453 Speaker 3: How does atemis two, you know, and the Artemis mission 90 00:04:25,733 --> 00:04:27,533 Speaker 3: help us us get us to Mars? 91 00:04:28,893 --> 00:04:31,813 Speaker 4: So, I mean, the Mars is a longer duration flight, 92 00:04:31,933 --> 00:04:35,053 Speaker 4: but it's very much learning about partly. You know, one 93 00:04:35,053 --> 00:04:36,853 Speaker 4: of the challenges is that they have to rebuild the 94 00:04:36,933 --> 00:04:39,013 Speaker 4: technology to land on the Moon and so that that's 95 00:04:39,053 --> 00:04:41,693 Speaker 4: still to be tested, and so obviously when you go 96 00:04:41,733 --> 00:04:43,333 Speaker 4: to Mars, that's going to be a challenge, to be 97 00:04:43,333 --> 00:04:45,693 Speaker 4: a bigger challenge landing on Mars than on the Moon 98 00:04:45,773 --> 00:04:49,053 Speaker 4: because Mars has a stronger gravitational field to work against, 99 00:04:50,133 --> 00:04:52,373 Speaker 4: But learning how to do that on a regular basis 100 00:04:52,693 --> 00:04:54,653 Speaker 4: is definitely a key part of going back to Mars. 101 00:04:54,773 --> 00:04:57,013 Speaker 2: So looking ahead to Artemis three, which is scheduled for 102 00:04:57,413 --> 00:04:59,453 Speaker 2: next year, all going well with the re entry, it 103 00:04:59,533 --> 00:05:02,933 Speaker 2: seems Professor that you know, the the SLSS, they call 104 00:05:02,973 --> 00:05:06,333 Speaker 2: it the capsule, and the original launch went very well 105 00:05:06,373 --> 00:05:10,093 Speaker 2: for them, so arguably they'll be looking pretty pleased for 106 00:05:10,333 --> 00:05:12,013 Speaker 2: a head of Artemis three project. 107 00:05:12,813 --> 00:05:15,693 Speaker 4: I think ASA has to be breathing a huge sigh 108 00:05:15,693 --> 00:05:17,653 Speaker 4: of release on this. The anything that's given them trouble, 109 00:05:17,653 --> 00:05:19,853 Speaker 4: it seems to have been the toilet and those are 110 00:05:19,893 --> 00:05:22,413 Speaker 4: notoriously misbehaving on spacecraft. 111 00:05:24,613 --> 00:05:28,013 Speaker 3: Yes, so is adamis I mean, this is a difficult 112 00:05:28,053 --> 00:05:28,653 Speaker 3: question to answer. 113 00:05:28,693 --> 00:05:29,013 Speaker 5: I guess. 114 00:05:29,013 --> 00:05:34,253 Speaker 3: But is it primarily science politics or about becoming a 115 00:05:34,453 --> 00:05:35,933 Speaker 3: multiplanetary species. 116 00:05:36,773 --> 00:05:40,013 Speaker 4: I think it's primarily in politics. I think the multiplanetary 117 00:05:40,053 --> 00:05:42,373 Speaker 4: species thing, I would take that with a grain of salt. 118 00:05:42,413 --> 00:05:46,293 Speaker 4: The ability of people to operate in a self sustaining 119 00:05:46,333 --> 00:05:48,773 Speaker 4: way in space is a long way into the future. 120 00:05:48,813 --> 00:05:50,813 Speaker 4: If you think about, you know, all of the electronics 121 00:05:50,813 --> 00:05:52,853 Speaker 4: in the spacecraft, for instance, I mean, that's very likely 122 00:05:52,893 --> 00:05:55,813 Speaker 4: to be built on the US rather than be recreated 123 00:05:55,853 --> 00:05:56,333 Speaker 4: in space. 124 00:05:57,773 --> 00:05:59,533 Speaker 5: It is politics, I mean, there's no too. 125 00:05:59,613 --> 00:06:02,413 Speaker 4: I mean the original polymicians were about politics as well, 126 00:06:03,213 --> 00:06:06,133 Speaker 4: but it is also you know, it is something that 127 00:06:06,173 --> 00:06:11,173 Speaker 4: catches people's imagination and it's it's politics and many things, 128 00:06:11,173 --> 00:06:13,013 Speaker 4: but it's it's also undeniably cool. 129 00:06:14,333 --> 00:06:16,653 Speaker 5: I've got like a five year old looking at some 130 00:06:16,733 --> 00:06:17,333 Speaker 5: of the footage. 131 00:06:18,133 --> 00:06:20,293 Speaker 3: It filled me full of hope and joy in a 132 00:06:20,293 --> 00:06:22,413 Speaker 3: way I haven't been for a long time, and it 133 00:06:22,493 --> 00:06:24,533 Speaker 3: quite surprised me how much I have. 134 00:06:25,013 --> 00:06:27,493 Speaker 4: True, that's exactly, That's exactly what I've heard from a 135 00:06:27,493 --> 00:06:29,933 Speaker 4: lot of people that they that they had a really 136 00:06:29,933 --> 00:06:31,973 Speaker 4: positive response to it, and also that it caught them 137 00:06:31,973 --> 00:06:32,853 Speaker 4: slightly by surprise. 138 00:06:33,693 --> 00:06:35,973 Speaker 2: I mean, just the live stream elements that, you know, 139 00:06:36,013 --> 00:06:37,733 Speaker 2: and I was gripped by that with the NASSA had 140 00:06:37,773 --> 00:06:40,133 Speaker 2: the live stream, but when they cast into into the 141 00:06:40,173 --> 00:06:42,413 Speaker 2: crew and then how do we interview with them or 142 00:06:42,413 --> 00:06:44,613 Speaker 2: how do we laugh? I mean, it's incredible. The fact 143 00:06:44,653 --> 00:06:47,253 Speaker 2: that they were, you know, almost on the other side 144 00:06:47,293 --> 00:06:49,053 Speaker 2: of the Moon and they were having a live stream 145 00:06:49,093 --> 00:06:52,013 Speaker 2: back to Earth that anyone could watch. That is an 146 00:06:52,053 --> 00:06:53,213 Speaker 2: incredible moment in time. 147 00:06:54,053 --> 00:06:54,333 Speaker 5: It is. 148 00:06:54,413 --> 00:06:56,453 Speaker 4: And you know, you compare that to the footage from 149 00:06:56,493 --> 00:06:58,853 Speaker 4: the poly mission. You know, the live footage that that 150 00:06:59,053 --> 00:07:01,533 Speaker 4: was super shaky, it was very marginal just getting that 151 00:07:01,613 --> 00:07:03,973 Speaker 4: at all, whereas this looks like you know that that 152 00:07:03,973 --> 00:07:06,533 Speaker 4: they're i mean it's literally four K in some cases, 153 00:07:07,573 --> 00:07:09,773 Speaker 4: and so they're going to this amazing video from space 154 00:07:09,813 --> 00:07:12,333 Speaker 4: and a much more relaxed true you know that the 155 00:07:12,413 --> 00:07:15,653 Speaker 4: people are happy showing human emotions that at the moment, 156 00:07:16,053 --> 00:07:19,453 Speaker 4: whether you know, the commander identifies a creator that they're 157 00:07:19,453 --> 00:07:23,133 Speaker 4: going to name an honor is deceased wife. I mean, 158 00:07:23,173 --> 00:07:26,413 Speaker 4: that's not something that you would have picked up watching 159 00:07:26,453 --> 00:07:28,933 Speaker 4: the poly missions in the nineteen sixties. You know that 160 00:07:28,933 --> 00:07:34,053 Speaker 4: that very kind of straight edge, sort of military aviated perspectives. 161 00:07:34,053 --> 00:07:36,693 Speaker 3: That's a good point and so how far away away 162 00:07:36,773 --> 00:07:39,373 Speaker 3: from them putting someone on the moon again. 163 00:07:40,733 --> 00:07:44,013 Speaker 4: So I think the current plan is, it was that 164 00:07:44,053 --> 00:07:46,493 Speaker 4: ATAMAS three was going to hopefully land on the Moon, 165 00:07:46,533 --> 00:07:49,733 Speaker 4: but the latest iteration, I think is that they will 166 00:07:49,773 --> 00:07:52,893 Speaker 4: test the landers in Earth orbit to check that they 167 00:07:52,933 --> 00:07:55,373 Speaker 4: could dock and undock, that they can maneuver, and so forth. 168 00:07:55,733 --> 00:07:57,893 Speaker 4: So maybe maybe a couple Maybe it looks to be 169 00:07:57,933 --> 00:07:59,453 Speaker 4: like a couple of years, So it's at this point 170 00:07:59,493 --> 00:08:00,013 Speaker 4: maybe three. 171 00:08:00,213 --> 00:08:03,293 Speaker 2: Yeah, And the final question from me, professor, how should 172 00:08:03,293 --> 00:08:06,853 Speaker 2: we judge whether Artemis is successful? Obviously a successful entry 173 00:08:06,893 --> 00:08:09,253 Speaker 2: is a big part of that, but oh what, you know, 174 00:08:09,453 --> 00:08:12,613 Speaker 2: what are your thoughts on the success of this particular mission, of. 175 00:08:12,693 --> 00:08:14,933 Speaker 4: This particular mission, if they know, if they take all 176 00:08:14,973 --> 00:08:18,253 Speaker 4: the kpiss that's in the corporate world, I think I 177 00:08:18,253 --> 00:08:21,013 Speaker 4: think it's a success. It's very much building towards you know, 178 00:08:21,013 --> 00:08:22,933 Speaker 4: it's very much proving that they can in some ways, 179 00:08:22,933 --> 00:08:25,133 Speaker 4: they've gone out of their way to make it as 180 00:08:25,173 --> 00:08:27,053 Speaker 4: simple as possible. And I think if they you know, 181 00:08:27,093 --> 00:08:30,053 Speaker 4: if they land safely tomorrow, I imagine that NASA will 182 00:08:30,093 --> 00:08:32,933 Speaker 4: be will be enormously happy with how this has turned out. 183 00:08:33,053 --> 00:08:35,733 Speaker 2: Yeah, it's been absolutely incredible to witness. And it's not 184 00:08:35,773 --> 00:08:38,133 Speaker 2: the end of the Artemis program, but Professor, it's been 185 00:08:38,173 --> 00:08:39,773 Speaker 2: great chatting with you. Thank you so much for your 186 00:08:39,813 --> 00:08:40,653 Speaker 2: time this afternoon. 187 00:08:41,093 --> 00:08:41,693 Speaker 5: It's a pleasure. 188 00:08:42,053 --> 00:08:45,093 Speaker 2: That is Professor Richard Easter. He is an astrophysicist and 189 00:08:45,132 --> 00:08:48,612 Speaker 2: physics professor at Auckland University. Fascinating stuff, What. 190 00:08:48,573 --> 00:08:51,132 Speaker 3: A great time to watch to Reentry. 191 00:08:51,213 --> 00:08:53,852 Speaker 1: For more from news talks that'd be listen live on 192 00:08:53,933 --> 00:08:56,893 Speaker 1: air or online. And keep our shows with you wherever 193 00:08:56,933 --> 00:08:59,533 Speaker 1: you go with our podcasts on iHeartRadio.