WEBVTT - Leighton Smith Podcast - Best Of: David Bell - December 25th 2024 0:00:09.133 --> 0:00:12.013 You're listening to a podcast from News Talks ed B 0:00:12.413 --> 0:00:16.373 follow this and our wide range of podcasts now on iHeartRadio. 0:00:16.733 --> 0:00:19.733 It's time for all the attitude, all the opinion, all 0:00:19.773 --> 0:00:25.333 the information, all the debates of now the Leighton Smith 0:00:25.413 --> 0:00:27.053 Podcast powered. 0:00:26.653 --> 0:00:27.453 By News Talks Ed. 0:00:27.653 --> 0:00:30.293 Well, this hasn't happened before. This is the first time 0:00:30.333 --> 0:00:34.133 that we have had a release on Christmas Day. So 0:00:34.493 --> 0:00:37.893 the second of our best of series through the holiday 0:00:37.933 --> 0:00:42.493 period and it's with David Bell. Now. This is an 0:00:42.493 --> 0:00:46.213 extensive interview with David on the expansion of the World 0:00:46.213 --> 0:00:51.653 Health Organization's powers and influence. He has worked for twenty 0:00:51.733 --> 0:00:55.893 years in biotech and international public health in numerous capacities, 0:00:56.373 --> 0:01:00.653 with over one hundred and twenty research publications. David explains 0:01:00.693 --> 0:01:04.253 why New Zealand and other countries should stand their ground 0:01:04.413 --> 0:01:09.773 and refrain from signing on to changes that the World 0:01:09.813 --> 0:01:15.213 Health Organization is looking for. It is a very important discussion. 0:01:16.093 --> 0:01:17.813 And then if you like what you hear, there is 0:01:17.853 --> 0:01:22.853 another very very good interview with David Bell in Podcasts 0:01:22.853 --> 0:01:25.533 two one hundred and sixty five. Just to do a 0:01:25.573 --> 0:01:29.213 search for the Latenessmith podcast two sixty five and it 0:01:29.293 --> 0:01:33.453 will find you in the meantime, I wish you an 0:01:33.573 --> 0:01:38.253 enjoyable listen of course, and Merry Christmas, and may everything 0:01:38.373 --> 0:01:39.333 be right. 0:01:39.573 --> 0:01:40.253 In your world. 0:01:49.973 --> 0:01:55.053 Layton Smith Leverix is an antihistamine made in Switzerland to 0:01:55.133 --> 0:01:59.333 the highest quality. Leverix relieves hay fever and skin allergies 0:01:59.653 --> 0:02:03.733 or itchy skin. It's a dual action antihistamine and has 0:02:03.773 --> 0:02:09.413 a unique nasal decongested action. It's fast acting for fast relief, 0:02:09.813 --> 0:02:12.533 and it works in under an hour and lasts for 0:02:12.653 --> 0:02:16.053 over twenty four hours. Levers is a tiny tablet that 0:02:16.173 --> 0:02:20.253 unblocks the nose, deals with itchy eyes, and stops sneezing. 0:02:20.533 --> 0:02:24.813 Leverix is an antihistamine made in Switzerland to the highest quality. 0:02:25.293 --> 0:02:28.373 So next time you're in need of an effective antihistamine, 0:02:28.813 --> 0:02:32.373 call into the pharmacy and ask for Leverix l v 0:02:33.013 --> 0:02:37.453 rix Leverix and always read the label. Take as directed, 0:02:37.693 --> 0:02:46.253 and if symptoms persist, see your health professional. Farmer Broker Auckland. 0:02:49.573 --> 0:02:53.293 David Bell, Senior Scholar at Brownstone Institute, is a public 0:02:53.333 --> 0:02:57.893 health physician a biotech consultant in global health. David is 0:02:57.933 --> 0:03:01.373 a former medical officer and scientist at the World Health 0:03:01.493 --> 0:03:06.613 Organization the WHO Program Head for Malaria and Febrile Diseases 0:03:06.733 --> 0:03:11.373 at the Foundation for Innovation of New Diagnostics in Geneva, 0:03:11.773 --> 0:03:16.813 and Director of Global Health Technologies at Intellectual Ventures Global 0:03:16.893 --> 0:03:22.413 Good Fund in Bellevue in Washington State in the United States. 0:03:22.813 --> 0:03:26.853 He is also a guest on this podcast. Has been 0:03:26.853 --> 0:03:29.853 a guest on this podcast more than month twice, three 0:03:30.173 --> 0:03:32.773 maybe four times. And it's very good to welcome you back. 0:03:32.853 --> 0:03:37.053 I'm appreciative of the fact that you are here. Yeah, 0:03:37.093 --> 0:03:41.053 thanks for having me back late. It is always it is 0:03:41.093 --> 0:03:43.573 always a pleasure. I got to say what a quote. 0:03:43.893 --> 0:03:45.853 I want to quote a lot of things actually in 0:03:45.933 --> 0:03:51.373 this podcast, but let me start with an example of destructive, 0:03:51.733 --> 0:03:56.373 unaccountable bureaucratic overreach, which is part of what you opened 0:03:56.453 --> 0:04:00.893 up with for a column on Brownstone. An example, and 0:04:00.973 --> 0:04:06.213 I repeat it, of destructive, unaccountable bureaucratic overreach. Are you 0:04:06.333 --> 0:04:11.173 taking a stronger stance over I won't say against, but 0:04:11.413 --> 0:04:13.573 over the World Health Organization that. 0:04:14.453 --> 0:04:18.693 I don't think so. I think for the last four 0:04:18.773 --> 0:04:21.973 years I've been pointing out what is going on. I mean, 0:04:22.413 --> 0:04:25.493 in the end, you have an organization that has knowingly 0:04:26.173 --> 0:04:29.213 impoverished the world and that they absolutely knew what they're doing, 0:04:29.253 --> 0:04:32.653 and it's I think most of your viewers probably don't 0:04:32.733 --> 0:04:37.973 understand the extent of an additional one hundred million plus 0:04:38.013 --> 0:04:41.653 people intovere poverty, food deprivation, up to ten million girls 0:04:41.693 --> 0:04:46.253 in additional in child marriage, increased child labor, a huge 0:04:46.333 --> 0:04:49.573 increase in national debt in low income countries, which will 0:04:50.013 --> 0:04:54.573 translate into them being forced to comply with global predators 0:04:54.613 --> 0:04:59.533 who prey on such in debted countries. And this is 0:04:59.573 --> 0:05:02.333 what has happened. I think now it's interesting because that 0:05:02.373 --> 0:05:07.013 there's a chance at least something may change slightly with 0:05:07.293 --> 0:05:12.453 the US election. So it's but I think those words 0:05:12.973 --> 0:05:16.413 are not out of sync with what I've and others 0:05:16.493 --> 0:05:19.293 have been saying for quite a while. I was going 0:05:19.373 --> 0:05:23.213 to show is a massive organization, is a huge bureaucracy, 0:05:23.413 --> 0:05:26.733 it's grossly out of touch with reality, and it is 0:05:26.973 --> 0:05:29.333 deliberately misleading countries. 0:05:29.773 --> 0:05:32.613 I was going to raise the American election result with 0:05:32.693 --> 0:05:35.653 you a little later, So let's just park it for 0:05:35.693 --> 0:05:38.573 the moment, because there is probably a little more than 0:05:39.173 --> 0:05:44.933 than just this to discuss. I want to quote you 0:05:45.693 --> 0:05:49.533 this particular headline, followed by another one. New Zealand first 0:05:49.693 --> 0:05:56.173 fears over WHO regulations are misplaced, robust checks and balances 0:05:56.533 --> 0:06:01.853 already exist. And then the second headline is Shane Jones 0:06:02.293 --> 0:06:06.373 world Health Organization needs reform not fappening. Now, these are 0:06:06.373 --> 0:06:11.013 two at variants commentaries. One is written by journalists, the 0:06:11.053 --> 0:06:15.453 other is written by well politician. Which one of those 0:06:15.533 --> 0:06:17.693 is closer to the reality. 0:06:18.053 --> 0:06:21.573 Or clearly the second one I think. I was on 0:06:21.613 --> 0:06:24.373 this program where we were talking about the work at 0:06:24.413 --> 0:06:28.333 the University of Leeds, where we're looking at the international 0:06:28.373 --> 0:06:32.973 pandemic agenda, the push by WHO, World Bank G twenty, 0:06:33.013 --> 0:06:36.773 et cetera to increase funding from countries from taxpayers for 0:06:36.973 --> 0:06:43.013 this rapidly growing bureaucracy around pandemics and supposedly increasing pandemic risk, 0:06:43.093 --> 0:06:48.853 and where we've shown conclusively that this is well as 0:06:49.173 --> 0:06:54.813 WHO would term it, misinformation. They are twisting the reality 0:06:54.893 --> 0:06:59.773 around infectious disease pandemic risk and the costs of dealing 0:06:59.853 --> 0:07:02.973 with it and the effect that would have. But journalists, 0:07:03.013 --> 0:07:06.853 I think, by enlarge, don't dig into things like that anymore. 0:07:06.893 --> 0:07:10.013 They just assume if the World Bank or that G 0:07:10.173 --> 0:07:12.893 twenty says something, it must be true. So I'm not 0:07:13.013 --> 0:07:16.693 defending journalists, but I think that's probably where those sorts 0:07:16.693 --> 0:07:21.013 of responses come from. So I mean, when that is happening, 0:07:21.053 --> 0:07:23.573 when the who is doing that as well, then clearly 0:07:24.133 --> 0:07:29.893 what Shane journesaid makes sense that the who is it 0:07:29.973 --> 0:07:32.613 is a huge it's not just a who, but the 0:07:32.653 --> 0:07:36.533 whole wintershal health bureaucracy is it's tens of thousands of people. 0:07:36.573 --> 0:07:40.053 Now it is a huge and rapidly growing industry that 0:07:40.733 --> 0:07:45.773 lives mostly off taxpayer money and mostly in very wealthy countries, 0:07:47.813 --> 0:07:52.653 and as we saw in COVID, is now no longer 0:07:52.733 --> 0:07:59.053 really helping, but is increasing the risk support health and 0:07:59.173 --> 0:08:03.813 impoverishing people, concentrating wealth in the pharmaceutical companies that have 0:08:03.973 --> 0:08:08.333 very much become influential in it. What these organizations should 0:08:08.493 --> 0:08:12.893 be doing is helping countries when they're asked to build 0:08:12.933 --> 0:08:17.613 capacity so that we don't need these organizations anymore. So 0:08:17.653 --> 0:08:21.573 that's the op they shouldn't be growing. There was abo 0:08:21.693 --> 0:08:26.173 IS set up in the late nineteen forties. It was 0:08:26.813 --> 0:08:31.053 helping countries that came out of colonialism to sort of 0:08:31.053 --> 0:08:35.413 get on their feet deal with major diseases like malaria, tuberculosis, 0:08:36.613 --> 0:08:39.813 and now those what should what should be happening is US. 0:08:39.813 --> 0:08:42.253 Countries should be getting on their feet. We shouldn't need 0:08:42.293 --> 0:08:47.853 THEO anymore. In anything like you as a large organization, 0:08:48.573 --> 0:08:50.973 you can have a place where countries meet and so on, 0:08:51.693 --> 0:08:57.493 but there isn't a place for a growing international health bureaucracy. 0:08:57.933 --> 0:09:01.413 If we are getting better at medicine in countries, and 0:09:01.453 --> 0:09:06.493 we're building capacity, and sanitation is getting better, and nutrition 0:09:06.653 --> 0:09:10.333 is getting better, et cetera, it should be. And if 0:09:10.373 --> 0:09:12.413 that's still not the case, if we are seventy or 0:09:12.413 --> 0:09:16.213 eighty years into WHO and they are seeing that problems 0:09:16.253 --> 0:09:20.093 are growing and not reducing despite all the improvement in 0:09:20.173 --> 0:09:23.733 technology and everything in the world, then clearly they're a 0:09:23.813 --> 0:09:27.173 gross failure anyway, So we should be looking at something else. 0:09:27.933 --> 0:09:32.333 Since twenty twenty, the WHO has orchestrated and condoned one 0:09:32.333 --> 0:09:36.133 of the most devastating assaults on individual and societal health 0:09:36.293 --> 0:09:40.373 the world has seen. At the behest of highly conflicted sponsors, 0:09:40.573 --> 0:09:45.493 this international bureaucracy promoted policies that overwhelmingly harmed the world's 0:09:45.493 --> 0:09:49.093 most disadvantage. The organization turned on those whom it had 0:09:49.133 --> 0:09:52.573 been set up to serve. Returning to the pre World 0:09:52.613 --> 0:09:58.013 War II mindset of technocratic authoritarianism that characterize public health 0:09:58.013 --> 0:10:04.213 in the area of eugenics, colonialism, and European fascism. Now, 0:10:04.293 --> 0:10:07.973 those last three terms are things that those of the 0:10:08.053 --> 0:10:13.733 left regale against constantly. And yet here we are, and 0:10:13.813 --> 0:10:18.893 here you are writing that about an organization that we 0:10:18.973 --> 0:10:24.133 all know. The bureaucracies either live by growth or die 0:10:24.213 --> 0:10:28.613 by the growth. So is it fair to say that 0:10:28.613 --> 0:10:31.533 they're simply thinking of survival. 0:10:32.093 --> 0:10:39.013 The thing of growth? Yeah, So the whos are organization 0:10:39.093 --> 0:10:41.213 of thousands of people, and there's still people there who 0:10:41.213 --> 0:10:44.253 are working hard and doing useful stuff. It's not like 0:10:44.413 --> 0:10:49.173 the whole organization is completely corrupted, but I think at 0:10:49.213 --> 0:10:51.853 the top of the policy level it has been for 0:10:51.893 --> 0:10:55.093 the last several years. And you know, I mentioned that 0:10:55.293 --> 0:10:58.173 some of the numbers in COVID. Then the abandonment of 0:10:58.213 --> 0:11:02.533 science in COVID, which was gross, the abandonment of pretending 0:11:02.573 --> 0:11:07.453 that mass work and social distinccing and pretending that you 0:11:07.493 --> 0:11:10.813 should close stop travel when you've got the same virus 0:11:10.853 --> 0:11:15.853 on both hends of the trouble path, and the essential 0:11:16.133 --> 0:11:22.493 completely disregard for human immunity, natural immunity. We had the 0:11:22.533 --> 0:11:27.133 most expensive of public health program in Africa, or mass 0:11:27.253 --> 0:11:31.253 vaccination when who knew from their own studies that almost 0:11:31.253 --> 0:11:37.733 the whole population already had effective immunity against COVID from 0:11:37.893 --> 0:11:43.453 natural infection. So it's an organization which there's thousands of people. 0:11:44.053 --> 0:11:47.013 If you're in an organization for twenty or thirty years, 0:11:47.853 --> 0:11:51.133 inevitably you sort of lose the edge of the good 0:11:51.173 --> 0:11:54.733 intent you might have gone in with, and you become 0:11:54.973 --> 0:11:58.213 you want your pension, which is very extremely good at 0:11:58.333 --> 0:12:00.293 who so you want to hang out for that, So 0:12:00.373 --> 0:12:03.853 you want to comply. You have your kids in high 0:12:03.853 --> 0:12:05.813 school or college or whatever, and they get a seventy 0:12:05.853 --> 0:12:10.453 five percent education subsidy, get a rental subsidy, you get 0:12:10.573 --> 0:12:12.613 very good salary. On top of all this, you get 0:12:12.613 --> 0:12:15.893 business class travel, five star hotels or the rest of it. 0:12:16.013 --> 0:12:21.773 So you inevitably, almost everyone, I think, start to think 0:12:21.853 --> 0:12:25.533 that you're one, you're really important, more important than other 0:12:25.613 --> 0:12:27.893 people because you've paid so well when you travel in 0:12:28.493 --> 0:12:32.293 important aircraft seats and get picked up by cars with 0:12:32.373 --> 0:12:38.333 a blue badge on the door. And secondly, oh, you 0:12:38.413 --> 0:12:41.493 see it in all institutions. I think the role of 0:12:41.533 --> 0:12:44.213 the institution or the existence and the reputation of the 0:12:44.213 --> 0:12:49.253 institution becomes your primary focus because you think that the 0:12:49.613 --> 0:12:52.413 world needs your institution and therefore you must protect it. 0:12:52.533 --> 0:12:54.413 So you know, this is the sort of thing that 0:12:54.533 --> 0:12:58.573 is the effect of the Catholic Church, for instance, with 0:12:58.573 --> 0:13:03.293 with the cover up of child sexual abuse in the past, 0:13:03.373 --> 0:13:05.893 and you see the same thing in the UN actually 0:13:05.973 --> 0:13:10.693 for exactly the same issue. Or really the Human Rights 0:13:10.733 --> 0:13:13.613 Council has been guilty of this in Central African Republic 0:13:13.613 --> 0:13:17.453 about ten years ago. So you tend to put your 0:13:17.573 --> 0:13:21.493 organization first and not the supposed goal of the organization. 0:13:21.773 --> 0:13:25.133 And yeah, I don't know of any bureaucracy anywhere that 0:13:25.253 --> 0:13:28.133 has worked to put itself out of existence, because that 0:13:28.253 --> 0:13:31.373 means losing your salary, losing the salary of your team. 0:13:32.013 --> 0:13:35.333 But if you're an international organization that is a servant 0:13:35.373 --> 0:13:38.853 of countries and a servant of populations and your job 0:13:38.933 --> 0:13:41.093 is to build their capacity, that is actually what you 0:13:41.093 --> 0:13:44.253 should do. So I can imagine you could structu an 0:13:44.293 --> 0:13:47.933 organization to do that. It's probably something where people can 0:13:47.973 --> 0:13:49.653 only stay five or ten years and they have to 0:13:49.773 --> 0:13:52.893 rotate out anyway, so it doesn't become their permanent home. 0:13:53.533 --> 0:13:57.053 But once you allow an organization to become a permanent 0:13:57.093 --> 0:13:59.893 home for a large bureaucracy. It's not going to work 0:13:59.933 --> 0:14:02.333 its way out of assistance. It's going to look to grow, 0:14:02.933 --> 0:14:07.373 because that's just what human institutions do. And in Who's case, 0:14:07.533 --> 0:14:11.653 to grow meant throwing away essentially a lot of the 0:14:11.693 --> 0:14:16.693 conflict of interests rules that they had in the past 0:14:16.813 --> 0:14:22.373 and getting to bed with large corporations and private sector investors, 0:14:23.413 --> 0:14:25.973 and so about twenty five percent of their budget now 0:14:26.213 --> 0:14:32.973 is directly from or directly from private sector, and most 0:14:32.973 --> 0:14:35.693 of their budget, whether from countries or private sector, is 0:14:35.733 --> 0:14:39.493 specified so that the funder tells you what you would 0:14:39.533 --> 0:14:42.453 do with that money. That's not how Who started. It 0:14:42.533 --> 0:14:46.413 was supposed to be an organization where technical expertise, at 0:14:46.413 --> 0:14:51.373 the request of countries would be used to address the 0:14:51.893 --> 0:14:55.933 needs of those countries. It's become, through its budget, an 0:14:56.053 --> 0:15:00.173 organization that follows the instructions of those who are giving 0:15:00.213 --> 0:15:03.933 up money. And that happens because you keep thinking more 0:15:04.053 --> 0:15:08.293 money will be good, and you're you know you're capable 0:15:08.533 --> 0:15:10.973 of handing in the conflict of interest bit and you 0:15:11.013 --> 0:15:13.093 won't be corrupted at sea, but of course you are, 0:15:13.173 --> 0:15:15.493 because you know that to get refunded next year, you 0:15:15.573 --> 0:15:18.693 have to please that funder. So when I worked in WHO, 0:15:18.773 --> 0:15:21.853 I saw this growing. I started in about two thousand 0:15:21.853 --> 0:15:24.573 and two worked there for about eight or ten years, 0:15:24.613 --> 0:15:28.413 and this was a period particularly where private foundations became 0:15:28.973 --> 0:15:34.093 very influential, where the probably private partnerships alongside WHO grew 0:15:34.173 --> 0:15:38.853 up and became influential on it. And the COVID response 0:15:38.933 --> 0:15:45.013 is the inevitable result of that. It was essentially restructuring 0:15:45.533 --> 0:15:51.213 response to outbreaks in order to maximize profit through mass 0:15:51.293 --> 0:15:55.693 vaccination forever a disease that almost really almost no one 0:15:55.693 --> 0:15:59.173 should have been needed to be vaccinated. So the reason 0:15:59.253 --> 0:16:01.493 for that, and the reason they abandoned their old guidelines 0:16:01.533 --> 0:16:04.413 and did that was because that was what they needed 0:16:04.453 --> 0:16:09.933 to do to please their funders. So it's WHO is 0:16:09.973 --> 0:16:12.453 a tool of others. It's supposed to be a tool 0:16:12.493 --> 0:16:15.293 of countries, so it should be a temporary tool until 0:16:15.293 --> 0:16:17.293 the countries stand on their own feet. Has become a 0:16:17.333 --> 0:16:22.693 tool of the pharmaceutical industry and biotech and those who 0:16:22.733 --> 0:16:25.773 invest in it. Yeah, so I think you know Shane 0:16:25.853 --> 0:16:32.893 Jones's variety. It is not contributing. Now, there's no reason 0:16:32.973 --> 0:16:36.853 for it to grow because actually infectious disease mortality has 0:16:36.853 --> 0:16:40.613 been steadily declining despite all the hype, and over the 0:16:40.693 --> 0:16:46.973 last many decades the mortality from outbreaks and from pandemics 0:16:47.013 --> 0:16:51.453 has been declining. So COVID was an outlier which very 0:16:51.653 --> 0:16:57.013 likely was not a natural outbreak, and certainly many of 0:16:57.053 --> 0:17:01.893 the deaths from covid iatrogenic. There's really little doubt about that. 0:17:02.013 --> 0:17:04.893 With the mass use of drugs like rendeser bear and 0:17:05.853 --> 0:17:10.493 very early intubation early on in the pandemic, so people panicked, 0:17:11.933 --> 0:17:14.733 they do that. That happened because there was a huge 0:17:14.773 --> 0:17:18.253 media operation to make people panic. Then the now mortality 0:17:18.293 --> 0:17:21.733 is almost zero, and most of that is from people 0:17:21.813 --> 0:17:26.053 gaining well one from people gaining natural immunity too, because 0:17:26.853 --> 0:17:29.493 if you just leave it as you would treat a 0:17:29.533 --> 0:17:31.893 common cold, then for the vast majority of the population, 0:17:31.973 --> 0:17:36.053 that'll be what it is. So it was used as 0:17:36.093 --> 0:17:40.253 a tool to please these funders. But apart from that, 0:17:40.293 --> 0:17:43.533 there is very little in the way of out breaks astray, 0:17:44.053 --> 0:17:48.813 the mass cholor of mortality, the plague, that yellow fever 0:17:48.853 --> 0:17:51.853 and so on. We have very small outbreaks. Now these 0:17:51.853 --> 0:17:55.093 are things of the past, so there's no good reason 0:17:55.293 --> 0:17:57.413 for the who to be growing at all. It should 0:17:57.453 --> 0:17:58.013 be shrinking. 0:17:59.293 --> 0:18:00.133 But it's not going to. 0:18:01.773 --> 0:18:05.893 It's not going to unless there's a radical change in 0:18:05.933 --> 0:18:09.133 the way it's run. And it is hard to see 0:18:09.173 --> 0:18:11.853 how that would happen because an organization that you've got 0:18:11.893 --> 0:18:15.493 to do that change to a large extent through people 0:18:15.533 --> 0:18:17.213 there who would be extremely resistant. 0:18:18.093 --> 0:18:22.773 I know that we've discussed this before from one aspect anyway, 0:18:23.053 --> 0:18:26.373 but let me let me just raise it again. What 0:18:26.493 --> 0:18:31.133 would be the on going back to the conflict between 0:18:31.333 --> 0:18:35.333 Shane Jones, just to use this as an example, and journalists, 0:18:35.733 --> 0:18:39.413 because the journalists are pretty much all the same. They're 0:18:39.653 --> 0:18:42.493 the same over the over the American election as well. 0:18:42.853 --> 0:18:46.813 They can't help themselves. But if New Zealand were to 0:18:46.933 --> 0:18:50.893 not participate in the changes that are being made by 0:18:50.893 --> 0:18:54.493 the World Health Organization, what would be the downside? 0:18:55.693 --> 0:19:00.253 None For New Zealand. It would save some money and 0:19:00.373 --> 0:19:06.453 it would not be essentially forced to build a large 0:19:06.853 --> 0:19:11.453 surveillance network to find viral variant and then risk you know, 0:19:11.653 --> 0:19:14.733 being having to lock down and destroy your economy again 0:19:15.173 --> 0:19:19.213 to assuage the needs of people in Geneva. So there 0:19:19.213 --> 0:19:22.293 are plenty of diseases for New Zealanders to deal with. 0:19:22.973 --> 0:19:26.253 Most people die of cancer, heart disease, cutting vascular disease, 0:19:26.253 --> 0:19:31.093 et cetera. There are still significant rheumatic heart disease and 0:19:31.173 --> 0:19:38.213 other infection based mortality in all populations, include particularly indigenous 0:19:38.253 --> 0:19:41.093 populations around the Pacific and so on. There's plenty for 0:19:41.173 --> 0:19:44.613 New Zealand to do without participating in a sort of 0:19:45.813 --> 0:19:52.493 essentially fast this falsification of risk. So there's nothing that 0:19:52.493 --> 0:19:55.373 wouldn't matter unless you got to a situation where the 0:19:55.413 --> 0:19:57.613 World Bank and the IMF, who are very on board 0:19:57.693 --> 0:20:04.493 with this agenda of who decided to punish New Zealand. 0:20:04.573 --> 0:20:06.773 And New Zealand now I think has a very large 0:20:06.853 --> 0:20:11.613 natural debt, which I think during the COVID response many countries, 0:20:12.133 --> 0:20:16.533 so that makes you much more vulnerable to that. So 0:20:18.173 --> 0:20:20.533 I mean, we'll come back to the US, but this 0:20:20.613 --> 0:20:23.453 is where it'll be interesting to see whether the international 0:20:23.533 --> 0:20:27.133 political situation has changed such that you can't be punished 0:20:27.133 --> 0:20:28.573 for that, because that will take a lot of the 0:20:28.613 --> 0:20:31.493 wind out of the sales of the pandemic. 0:20:31.973 --> 0:20:37.253 I don't know whether this is international or spreads wider 0:20:37.333 --> 0:20:41.333 than New Zealand, but I've noticed that the people who 0:20:43.413 --> 0:20:49.533 are deserving of some degree of condemnation over their behavior 0:20:49.573 --> 0:20:54.293 and attitude toward the administration of the last few years. 0:20:54.773 --> 0:20:58.093 Are the same people who are promoting and pushing hardest 0:20:58.653 --> 0:21:03.613 for New Zealand to participate in the latest changes being 0:21:03.813 --> 0:21:07.253 made by the Who Why would that be, do you think? 0:21:08.413 --> 0:21:13.053 Yeah, I think it's a range of motivations. Some people, 0:21:13.093 --> 0:21:16.453 I think they do very well from funding from the 0:21:16.493 --> 0:21:20.413 pharmaceutical sector who are very much behind this agenda because 0:21:20.413 --> 0:21:22.933 they see hundreds of billions of dollars of profit in 0:21:22.973 --> 0:21:26.613 the long term. So they're doing what they're paid for 0:21:26.733 --> 0:21:30.013 probably or what they were. They're saying what they see 0:21:30.413 --> 0:21:33.133 as the best potential for them to get paid in 0:21:33.173 --> 0:21:36.733 the future. I think others, as we said that they 0:21:36.813 --> 0:21:42.293 genuinely believe this story, that they just assume that these 0:21:42.373 --> 0:21:45.853 large institutions would be telling the truth, that they have expertise, 0:21:45.973 --> 0:21:50.653 which they don't, and that they are you know, so 0:21:50.693 --> 0:21:52.693 they just go along and they're not going to stop 0:21:52.693 --> 0:21:55.093 and think deeply, because they've all been told that anyone 0:21:55.093 --> 0:21:58.653 who does is a right wing conspiracy theorist and they're 0:21:58.693 --> 0:22:01.493 likely to be vilified. So they you know, if you 0:22:01.573 --> 0:22:04.693 want a good job in global health, interational public health, 0:22:05.413 --> 0:22:08.493 you don't stick your head out like that. And I 0:22:08.573 --> 0:22:12.333 think others they may be realizing, they may dig down 0:22:12.413 --> 0:22:16.253 that this was a mistake for whatever the reason they 0:22:16.253 --> 0:22:19.493 went on in the first place. But it's really difficult 0:22:19.493 --> 0:22:21.173 to admit that. If you sort of stated to your 0:22:21.213 --> 0:22:26.533 reputation got really famous in the media, etc. On saying 0:22:26.573 --> 0:22:30.693 one thing, it's pretty difficult to backtrack then and say, well, actually, 0:22:31.933 --> 0:22:35.573 pandemics aren't at big risk to humankind, and you know, 0:22:35.653 --> 0:22:38.173 we have much bigger things to deal with. COVID was 0:22:38.613 --> 0:22:41.613 a huge overreaction. We should have known better, and let's 0:22:41.813 --> 0:22:44.533 do better now that there's not many people doing that. 0:22:44.933 --> 0:22:47.573 Most of the noise among those people is that we 0:22:47.613 --> 0:22:53.293 should have locked down faster and more strongly, which it's 0:22:53.413 --> 0:22:56.053 essentially saying we should destroy the economy more for longer. 0:22:56.493 --> 0:22:59.653 There is no good evidence that lockdowns did anything except 0:22:59.773 --> 0:23:03.773 slightly slow transmission. So it is different perhaps in island 0:23:03.773 --> 0:23:07.733 states where you know you could keep it out for longer. 0:23:07.773 --> 0:23:10.893 But now you haven't gained over the four years in 0:23:10.973 --> 0:23:14.413 terms of all cause mortality compared to other countries that 0:23:14.533 --> 0:23:17.933 didn't act in that way, So you're not better off 0:23:18.133 --> 0:23:22.613 over the four years, and you have an economy now 0:23:22.653 --> 0:23:24.973 that makes you very vulnerable and it is going to 0:23:24.973 --> 0:23:29.733 be have a huge impact on your ability to manage 0:23:29.733 --> 0:23:32.853 your nation's sealth in the future. So I think there's 0:23:32.893 --> 0:23:36.213 not much doubt that it was probably a mistake, even 0:23:36.253 --> 0:23:39.813 in New Zealand where there appeared to be as an 0:23:39.853 --> 0:23:43.293 island you could keep everyone out and sort of pretended 0:23:43.413 --> 0:23:45.973 the world didn't exist. But did I mention does? And 0:23:46.013 --> 0:23:47.493 you've wracked up a lot of problems? 0:23:47.933 --> 0:23:50.733 Did I mention? I? No, I didn't, And I don't 0:23:50.773 --> 0:23:52.853 think it was I don't think it was mentioned in 0:23:52.853 --> 0:23:56.653 the last conversation we had when you were here midyear. 0:23:57.053 --> 0:24:00.973 But they're still advertising for people to go get the job. 0:24:01.853 --> 0:24:04.973 Oh ye, get updated, Get updated, Get updated. The signs 0:24:04.973 --> 0:24:06.133 are out the front of the farmer. 0:24:07.533 --> 0:24:11.093 Distilling us as well from six months upwards here for 0:24:11.893 --> 0:24:14.533 there is zero evidence of benefit. 0:24:17.293 --> 0:24:20.373 Who preys hell is responsible for that in the States. 0:24:21.013 --> 0:24:25.533 In the States it's officially CDC, so they have their 0:24:25.613 --> 0:24:29.173 vaccine schedule for children and from six months up you're 0:24:29.173 --> 0:24:32.373 expected to get a series of MR and a injection 0:24:32.613 --> 0:24:35.533 which they know will concentrate in the over eas of 0:24:35.613 --> 0:24:39.173 young girls and in the livers and adrenal glands of 0:24:39.253 --> 0:24:42.853 girls and boys. Et cetera. And they know that healthy 0:24:42.893 --> 0:24:47.733 boys and girls and infants have almost near zero risk 0:24:47.773 --> 0:24:49.933 of dying of COVID sort of less than one million, 0:24:50.173 --> 0:24:52.533 so that there is no logic to any of this 0:24:53.213 --> 0:24:58.053 except the potential for profit and the sort of around 0:24:58.093 --> 0:25:00.733 that the sort of people who put their reputations want 0:25:00.733 --> 0:25:05.373 to preserve them, et cetera. So there's no public health 0:25:06.653 --> 0:25:09.973 rational public health basis that you can really follow to 0:25:10.213 --> 0:25:10.813 justify this. 0:25:11.333 --> 0:25:16.573 So the mRNA vaccine that accumulates in different parts of 0:25:16.813 --> 0:25:21.133 children's bodies does or can do how much damage. 0:25:21.133 --> 0:25:23.613 We don't know because we don't have long term studies 0:25:23.653 --> 0:25:26.693 on this, or even decent short term studies, so there's 0:25:26.813 --> 0:25:31.093 no even now there are no ongoing studies that they 0:25:31.733 --> 0:25:35.253 in adults. They after six months they lost the control group, 0:25:35.653 --> 0:25:39.133 so we can't compare. But we know the six months 0:25:39.133 --> 0:25:43.013 for the Maderna and Pisa trials. There was Maderna, the 0:25:43.133 --> 0:25:45.373 au course mortality was the same in the control group 0:25:45.413 --> 0:25:49.373 and the vaccinated group in Maderna. For Pisa, there were 0:25:49.373 --> 0:25:51.813 more deaths in the vaccinated group than the control group, 0:25:52.093 --> 0:25:56.653 so it was no effect or negative at six months. 0:25:56.653 --> 0:25:59.373 In adults, we don't have good data on any other 0:25:59.453 --> 0:26:03.973 age group. So for each new booster sort of type 0:26:04.013 --> 0:26:07.013 in in the US where they changed to a new variant, 0:26:07.133 --> 0:26:10.293 they test on I think is eight rats and they 0:26:10.373 --> 0:26:14.013 see if those rats produce antibodies, and they take that 0:26:14.093 --> 0:26:17.093 as the vaccine works, so that they don't even have 0:26:17.213 --> 0:26:21.133 human trials on the new versions now, so we have 0:26:21.573 --> 0:26:25.653 a passive and very flawed adverse reporting system of AIRS 0:26:25.693 --> 0:26:28.173 in the US and Australian New Zealand so on have 0:26:28.213 --> 0:26:33.173 their own. They show more high mortality and all severe 0:26:33.213 --> 0:26:40.093 effects reported for associated with the MRA with COVID injections 0:26:40.853 --> 0:26:44.853 then for all other vaccinations combined in the thirty years 0:26:44.853 --> 0:26:48.613 that FAIRS and the US has been running. So that's 0:26:49.013 --> 0:26:53.053 obviously a huge red flag normally, so to go and 0:26:53.133 --> 0:26:56.933 give that sort of thing to infants who like health 0:26:56.973 --> 0:27:02.293