1 00:00:09,133 --> 00:00:12,013 Speaker 1: You're listening to a podcast from News Talks ed B 2 00:00:12,413 --> 00:00:16,373 Speaker 1: follow this and our wide range of podcasts now on iHeartRadio. 3 00:00:16,733 --> 00:00:19,733 Speaker 1: It's time for all the attitude, all the opinion, all 4 00:00:19,773 --> 00:00:25,333 Speaker 1: the information, all the debates of now the Leighton Smith 5 00:00:25,413 --> 00:00:27,053 Speaker 1: Podcast powered. 6 00:00:26,653 --> 00:00:27,453 Speaker 2: By News Talks Ed. 7 00:00:27,653 --> 00:00:30,293 Speaker 3: Well, this hasn't happened before. This is the first time 8 00:00:30,333 --> 00:00:34,133 Speaker 3: that we have had a release on Christmas Day. So 9 00:00:34,493 --> 00:00:37,893 Speaker 3: the second of our best of series through the holiday 10 00:00:37,933 --> 00:00:42,493 Speaker 3: period and it's with David Bell. Now. This is an 11 00:00:42,493 --> 00:00:46,213 Speaker 3: extensive interview with David on the expansion of the World 12 00:00:46,213 --> 00:00:51,653 Speaker 3: Health Organization's powers and influence. He has worked for twenty 13 00:00:51,733 --> 00:00:55,893 Speaker 3: years in biotech and international public health in numerous capacities, 14 00:00:56,373 --> 00:01:00,653 Speaker 3: with over one hundred and twenty research publications. David explains 15 00:01:00,693 --> 00:01:04,253 Speaker 3: why New Zealand and other countries should stand their ground 16 00:01:04,413 --> 00:01:09,773 Speaker 3: and refrain from signing on to changes that the World 17 00:01:09,813 --> 00:01:15,213 Speaker 3: Health Organization is looking for. It is a very important discussion. 18 00:01:16,093 --> 00:01:17,813 Speaker 3: And then if you like what you hear, there is 19 00:01:17,853 --> 00:01:22,853 Speaker 3: another very very good interview with David Bell in Podcasts 20 00:01:22,853 --> 00:01:25,533 Speaker 3: two one hundred and sixty five. Just to do a 21 00:01:25,573 --> 00:01:29,213 Speaker 3: search for the Latenessmith podcast two sixty five and it 22 00:01:29,293 --> 00:01:33,453 Speaker 3: will find you in the meantime, I wish you an 23 00:01:33,573 --> 00:01:38,253 Speaker 3: enjoyable listen of course, and Merry Christmas, and may everything 24 00:01:38,373 --> 00:01:39,333 Speaker 3: be right. 25 00:01:39,573 --> 00:01:40,253 Speaker 2: In your world. 26 00:01:49,973 --> 00:01:55,053 Speaker 3: Layton Smith Leverix is an antihistamine made in Switzerland to 27 00:01:55,133 --> 00:01:59,333 Speaker 3: the highest quality. Leverix relieves hay fever and skin allergies 28 00:01:59,653 --> 00:02:03,733 Speaker 3: or itchy skin. It's a dual action antihistamine and has 29 00:02:03,773 --> 00:02:09,413 Speaker 3: a unique nasal decongested action. It's fast acting for fast relief, 30 00:02:09,813 --> 00:02:12,533 Speaker 3: and it works in under an hour and lasts for 31 00:02:12,653 --> 00:02:16,053 Speaker 3: over twenty four hours. Levers is a tiny tablet that 32 00:02:16,173 --> 00:02:20,253 Speaker 3: unblocks the nose, deals with itchy eyes, and stops sneezing. 33 00:02:20,533 --> 00:02:24,813 Speaker 3: Leverix is an antihistamine made in Switzerland to the highest quality. 34 00:02:25,293 --> 00:02:28,373 Speaker 3: So next time you're in need of an effective antihistamine, 35 00:02:28,813 --> 00:02:32,373 Speaker 3: call into the pharmacy and ask for Leverix l v 36 00:02:33,013 --> 00:02:37,453 Speaker 3: rix Leverix and always read the label. Take as directed, 37 00:02:37,693 --> 00:02:46,253 Speaker 3: and if symptoms persist, see your health professional. Farmer Broker Auckland. 38 00:02:49,573 --> 00:02:53,293 Speaker 3: David Bell, Senior Scholar at Brownstone Institute, is a public 39 00:02:53,333 --> 00:02:57,893 Speaker 3: health physician a biotech consultant in global health. David is 40 00:02:57,933 --> 00:03:01,373 Speaker 3: a former medical officer and scientist at the World Health 41 00:03:01,493 --> 00:03:06,613 Speaker 3: Organization the WHO Program Head for Malaria and Febrile Diseases 42 00:03:06,733 --> 00:03:11,373 Speaker 3: at the Foundation for Innovation of New Diagnostics in Geneva, 43 00:03:11,773 --> 00:03:16,813 Speaker 3: and Director of Global Health Technologies at Intellectual Ventures Global 44 00:03:16,893 --> 00:03:22,413 Speaker 3: Good Fund in Bellevue in Washington State in the United States. 45 00:03:22,813 --> 00:03:26,853 Speaker 3: He is also a guest on this podcast. Has been 46 00:03:26,853 --> 00:03:29,853 Speaker 3: a guest on this podcast more than month twice, three 47 00:03:30,173 --> 00:03:32,773 Speaker 3: maybe four times. And it's very good to welcome you back. 48 00:03:32,853 --> 00:03:37,053 Speaker 3: I'm appreciative of the fact that you are here. Yeah, 49 00:03:37,093 --> 00:03:41,053 Speaker 3: thanks for having me back late. It is always it is 50 00:03:41,093 --> 00:03:43,573 Speaker 3: always a pleasure. I got to say what a quote. 51 00:03:43,893 --> 00:03:45,853 Speaker 3: I want to quote a lot of things actually in 52 00:03:45,933 --> 00:03:51,373 Speaker 3: this podcast, but let me start with an example of destructive, 53 00:03:51,733 --> 00:03:56,373 Speaker 3: unaccountable bureaucratic overreach, which is part of what you opened 54 00:03:56,453 --> 00:04:00,893 Speaker 3: up with for a column on Brownstone. An example, and 55 00:04:00,973 --> 00:04:06,213 Speaker 3: I repeat it, of destructive, unaccountable bureaucratic overreach. Are you 56 00:04:06,333 --> 00:04:11,173 Speaker 3: taking a stronger stance over I won't say against, but 57 00:04:11,413 --> 00:04:13,573 Speaker 3: over the World Health Organization that. 58 00:04:14,453 --> 00:04:18,693 Speaker 2: I don't think so. I think for the last four 59 00:04:18,773 --> 00:04:21,973 Speaker 2: years I've been pointing out what is going on. I mean, 60 00:04:22,413 --> 00:04:25,493 Speaker 2: in the end, you have an organization that has knowingly 61 00:04:26,173 --> 00:04:29,213 Speaker 2: impoverished the world and that they absolutely knew what they're doing, 62 00:04:29,253 --> 00:04:32,653 Speaker 2: and it's I think most of your viewers probably don't 63 00:04:32,733 --> 00:04:37,973 Speaker 2: understand the extent of an additional one hundred million plus 64 00:04:38,013 --> 00:04:41,653 Speaker 2: people intovere poverty, food deprivation, up to ten million girls 65 00:04:41,693 --> 00:04:46,253 Speaker 2: in additional in child marriage, increased child labor, a huge 66 00:04:46,333 --> 00:04:49,573 Speaker 2: increase in national debt in low income countries, which will 67 00:04:50,013 --> 00:04:54,573 Speaker 2: translate into them being forced to comply with global predators 68 00:04:54,613 --> 00:04:59,533 Speaker 2: who prey on such in debted countries. And this is 69 00:04:59,573 --> 00:05:02,333 Speaker 2: what has happened. I think now it's interesting because that 70 00:05:02,373 --> 00:05:07,013 Speaker 2: there's a chance at least something may change slightly with 71 00:05:07,293 --> 00:05:12,453 Speaker 2: the US election. So it's but I think those words 72 00:05:12,973 --> 00:05:16,413 Speaker 2: are not out of sync with what I've and others 73 00:05:16,493 --> 00:05:19,293 Speaker 2: have been saying for quite a while. I was going 74 00:05:19,373 --> 00:05:23,213 Speaker 2: to show is a massive organization, is a huge bureaucracy, 75 00:05:23,413 --> 00:05:26,733 Speaker 2: it's grossly out of touch with reality, and it is 76 00:05:26,973 --> 00:05:29,333 Speaker 2: deliberately misleading countries. 77 00:05:29,773 --> 00:05:32,613 Speaker 3: I was going to raise the American election result with 78 00:05:32,693 --> 00:05:35,653 Speaker 3: you a little later, So let's just park it for 79 00:05:35,693 --> 00:05:38,573 Speaker 3: the moment, because there is probably a little more than 80 00:05:39,173 --> 00:05:44,933 Speaker 3: than just this to discuss. I want to quote you 81 00:05:45,693 --> 00:05:49,533 Speaker 3: this particular headline, followed by another one. New Zealand first 82 00:05:49,693 --> 00:05:56,173 Speaker 3: fears over WHO regulations are misplaced, robust checks and balances 83 00:05:56,533 --> 00:06:01,853 Speaker 3: already exist. And then the second headline is Shane Jones 84 00:06:02,293 --> 00:06:06,373 Speaker 3: world Health Organization needs reform not fappening. Now, these are 85 00:06:06,373 --> 00:06:11,013 Speaker 3: two at variants commentaries. One is written by journalists, the 86 00:06:11,053 --> 00:06:15,453 Speaker 3: other is written by well politician. Which one of those 87 00:06:15,533 --> 00:06:17,693 Speaker 3: is closer to the reality. 88 00:06:18,053 --> 00:06:21,573 Speaker 2: Or clearly the second one I think. I was on 89 00:06:21,613 --> 00:06:24,373 Speaker 2: this program where we were talking about the work at 90 00:06:24,413 --> 00:06:28,333 Speaker 2: the University of Leeds, where we're looking at the international 91 00:06:28,373 --> 00:06:32,973 Speaker 2: pandemic agenda, the push by WHO, World Bank G twenty, 92 00:06:33,013 --> 00:06:36,773 Speaker 2: et cetera to increase funding from countries from taxpayers for 93 00:06:36,973 --> 00:06:43,013 Speaker 2: this rapidly growing bureaucracy around pandemics and supposedly increasing pandemic risk, 94 00:06:43,093 --> 00:06:48,853 Speaker 2: and where we've shown conclusively that this is well as 95 00:06:49,173 --> 00:06:54,813 Speaker 2: WHO would term it, misinformation. They are twisting the reality 96 00:06:54,893 --> 00:06:59,773 Speaker 2: around infectious disease pandemic risk and the costs of dealing 97 00:06:59,853 --> 00:07:02,973 Speaker 2: with it and the effect that would have. But journalists, 98 00:07:03,013 --> 00:07:06,853 Speaker 2: I think, by enlarge, don't dig into things like that anymore. 99 00:07:06,893 --> 00:07:10,013 Speaker 2: They just assume if the World Bank or that G 100 00:07:10,173 --> 00:07:12,893 Speaker 2: twenty says something, it must be true. So I'm not 101 00:07:13,013 --> 00:07:16,693 Speaker 2: defending journalists, but I think that's probably where those sorts 102 00:07:16,693 --> 00:07:21,013 Speaker 2: of responses come from. So I mean, when that is happening, 103 00:07:21,053 --> 00:07:23,573 Speaker 2: when the who is doing that as well, then clearly 104 00:07:24,133 --> 00:07:29,893 Speaker 2: what Shane journesaid makes sense that the who is it 105 00:07:29,973 --> 00:07:32,613 Speaker 2: is a huge it's not just a who, but the 106 00:07:32,653 --> 00:07:36,533 Speaker 2: whole wintershal health bureaucracy is it's tens of thousands of people. 107 00:07:36,573 --> 00:07:40,053 Speaker 2: Now it is a huge and rapidly growing industry that 108 00:07:40,733 --> 00:07:45,773 Speaker 2: lives mostly off taxpayer money and mostly in very wealthy countries, 109 00:07:47,813 --> 00:07:52,653 Speaker 2: and as we saw in COVID, is now no longer 110 00:07:52,733 --> 00:07:59,053 Speaker 2: really helping, but is increasing the risk support health and 111 00:07:59,173 --> 00:08:03,813 Speaker 2: impoverishing people, concentrating wealth in the pharmaceutical companies that have 112 00:08:03,973 --> 00:08:08,333 Speaker 2: very much become influential in it. What these organizations should 113 00:08:08,493 --> 00:08:12,893 Speaker 2: be doing is helping countries when they're asked to build 114 00:08:12,933 --> 00:08:17,613 Speaker 2: capacity so that we don't need these organizations anymore. So 115 00:08:17,653 --> 00:08:21,573 Speaker 2: that's the op they shouldn't be growing. There was abo 116 00:08:21,693 --> 00:08:26,173 Speaker 2: IS set up in the late nineteen forties. It was 117 00:08:26,813 --> 00:08:31,053 Speaker 2: helping countries that came out of colonialism to sort of 118 00:08:31,053 --> 00:08:35,413 Speaker 2: get on their feet deal with major diseases like malaria, tuberculosis, 119 00:08:36,613 --> 00:08:39,813 Speaker 2: and now those what should what should be happening is US. 120 00:08:39,813 --> 00:08:42,253 Speaker 2: Countries should be getting on their feet. We shouldn't need 121 00:08:42,293 --> 00:08:47,853 Speaker 2: THEO anymore. In anything like you as a large organization, 122 00:08:48,573 --> 00:08:50,973 Speaker 2: you can have a place where countries meet and so on, 123 00:08:51,693 --> 00:08:57,493 Speaker 2: but there isn't a place for a growing international health bureaucracy. 124 00:08:57,933 --> 00:09:01,413 Speaker 2: If we are getting better at medicine in countries, and 125 00:09:01,453 --> 00:09:06,493 Speaker 2: we're building capacity, and sanitation is getting better, and nutrition 126 00:09:06,653 --> 00:09:10,333 Speaker 2: is getting better, et cetera, it should be. And if 127 00:09:10,373 --> 00:09:12,413 Speaker 2: that's still not the case, if we are seventy or 128 00:09:12,413 --> 00:09:16,213 Speaker 2: eighty years into WHO and they are seeing that problems 129 00:09:16,253 --> 00:09:20,093 Speaker 2: are growing and not reducing despite all the improvement in 130 00:09:20,173 --> 00:09:23,733 Speaker 2: technology and everything in the world, then clearly they're a 131 00:09:23,813 --> 00:09:27,173 Speaker 2: gross failure anyway, So we should be looking at something else. 132 00:09:27,933 --> 00:09:32,333 Speaker 3: Since twenty twenty, the WHO has orchestrated and condoned one 133 00:09:32,333 --> 00:09:36,133 Speaker 3: of the most devastating assaults on individual and societal health 134 00:09:36,293 --> 00:09:40,373 Speaker 3: the world has seen. At the behest of highly conflicted sponsors, 135 00:09:40,573 --> 00:09:45,493 Speaker 3: this international bureaucracy promoted policies that overwhelmingly harmed the world's 136 00:09:45,493 --> 00:09:49,093 Speaker 3: most disadvantage. The organization turned on those whom it had 137 00:09:49,133 --> 00:09:52,573 Speaker 3: been set up to serve. Returning to the pre World 138 00:09:52,613 --> 00:09:58,013 Speaker 3: War II mindset of technocratic authoritarianism that characterize public health 139 00:09:58,013 --> 00:10:04,213 Speaker 3: in the area of eugenics, colonialism, and European fascism. Now, 140 00:10:04,293 --> 00:10:07,973 Speaker 3: those last three terms are things that those of the 141 00:10:08,053 --> 00:10:13,733 Speaker 3: left regale against constantly. And yet here we are, and 142 00:10:13,813 --> 00:10:18,893 Speaker 3: here you are writing that about an organization that we 143 00:10:18,973 --> 00:10:24,133 Speaker 3: all know. The bureaucracies either live by growth or die 144 00:10:24,213 --> 00:10:28,613 Speaker 3: by the growth. So is it fair to say that 145 00:10:28,613 --> 00:10:31,533 Speaker 3: they're simply thinking of survival. 146 00:10:32,093 --> 00:10:39,013 Speaker 2: The thing of growth? Yeah, So the whos are organization 147 00:10:39,093 --> 00:10:41,213 Speaker 2: of thousands of people, and there's still people there who 148 00:10:41,213 --> 00:10:44,253 Speaker 2: are working hard and doing useful stuff. It's not like 149 00:10:44,413 --> 00:10:49,173 Speaker 2: the whole organization is completely corrupted, but I think at 150 00:10:49,213 --> 00:10:51,853 Speaker 2: the top of the policy level it has been for 151 00:10:51,893 --> 00:10:55,093 Speaker 2: the last several years. And you know, I mentioned that 152 00:10:55,293 --> 00:10:58,173 Speaker 2: some of the numbers in COVID. Then the abandonment of 153 00:10:58,213 --> 00:11:02,533 Speaker 2: science in COVID, which was gross, the abandonment of pretending 154 00:11:02,573 --> 00:11:07,453 Speaker 2: that mass work and social distinccing and pretending that you 155 00:11:07,493 --> 00:11:10,813 Speaker 2: should close stop travel when you've got the same virus 156 00:11:10,853 --> 00:11:15,853 Speaker 2: on both hends of the trouble path, and the essential 157 00:11:16,133 --> 00:11:22,493 Speaker 2: completely disregard for human immunity, natural immunity. We had the 158 00:11:22,533 --> 00:11:27,133 Speaker 2: most expensive of public health program in Africa, or mass 159 00:11:27,253 --> 00:11:31,253 Speaker 2: vaccination when who knew from their own studies that almost 160 00:11:31,253 --> 00:11:37,733 Speaker 2: the whole population already had effective immunity against COVID from 161 00:11:37,893 --> 00:11:43,453 Speaker 2: natural infection. So it's an organization which there's thousands of people. 162 00:11:44,053 --> 00:11:47,013 Speaker 2: If you're in an organization for twenty or thirty years, 163 00:11:47,853 --> 00:11:51,133 Speaker 2: inevitably you sort of lose the edge of the good 164 00:11:51,173 --> 00:11:54,733 Speaker 2: intent you might have gone in with, and you become 165 00:11:54,973 --> 00:11:58,213 Speaker 2: you want your pension, which is very extremely good at 166 00:11:58,333 --> 00:12:00,293 Speaker 2: who so you want to hang out for that, So 167 00:12:00,373 --> 00:12:03,853 Speaker 2: you want to comply. You have your kids in high 168 00:12:03,853 --> 00:12:05,813 Speaker 2: school or college or whatever, and they get a seventy 169 00:12:05,853 --> 00:12:10,453 Speaker 2: five percent education subsidy, get a rental subsidy, you get 170 00:12:10,573 --> 00:12:12,613 Speaker 2: very good salary. On top of all this, you get 171 00:12:12,613 --> 00:12:15,893 Speaker 2: business class travel, five star hotels or the rest of it. 172 00:12:16,013 --> 00:12:21,773 Speaker 2: So you inevitably, almost everyone, I think, start to think 173 00:12:21,853 --> 00:12:25,533 Speaker 2: that you're one, you're really important, more important than other 174 00:12:25,613 --> 00:12:27,893 Speaker 2: people because you've paid so well when you travel in 175 00:12:28,493 --> 00:12:32,293 Speaker 2: important aircraft seats and get picked up by cars with 176 00:12:32,373 --> 00:12:38,333 Speaker 2: a blue badge on the door. And secondly, oh, you 177 00:12:38,413 --> 00:12:41,493 Speaker 2: see it in all institutions. I think the role of 178 00:12:41,533 --> 00:12:44,213 Speaker 2: the institution or the existence and the reputation of the 179 00:12:44,213 --> 00:12:49,253 Speaker 2: institution becomes your primary focus because you think that the 180 00:12:49,613 --> 00:12:52,413 Speaker 2: world needs your institution and therefore you must protect it. 181 00:12:52,533 --> 00:12:54,413 Speaker 2: So you know, this is the sort of thing that 182 00:12:54,533 --> 00:12:58,573 Speaker 2: is the effect of the Catholic Church, for instance, with 183 00:12:58,573 --> 00:13:03,293 Speaker 2: with the cover up of child sexual abuse in the past, 184 00:13:03,373 --> 00:13:05,893 Speaker 2: and you see the same thing in the UN actually 185 00:13:05,973 --> 00:13:10,693 Speaker 2: for exactly the same issue. Or really the Human Rights 186 00:13:10,733 --> 00:13:13,613 Speaker 2: Council has been guilty of this in Central African Republic 187 00:13:13,613 --> 00:13:17,453 Speaker 2: about ten years ago. So you tend to put your 188 00:13:17,573 --> 00:13:21,493 Speaker 2: organization first and not the supposed goal of the organization. 189 00:13:21,773 --> 00:13:25,133 Speaker 2: And yeah, I don't know of any bureaucracy anywhere that 190 00:13:25,253 --> 00:13:28,133 Speaker 2: has worked to put itself out of existence, because that 191 00:13:28,253 --> 00:13:31,373 Speaker 2: means losing your salary, losing the salary of your team. 192 00:13:32,013 --> 00:13:35,333 Speaker 2: But if you're an international organization that is a servant 193 00:13:35,373 --> 00:13:38,853 Speaker 2: of countries and a servant of populations and your job 194 00:13:38,933 --> 00:13:41,093 Speaker 2: is to build their capacity, that is actually what you 195 00:13:41,093 --> 00:13:44,253 Speaker 2: should do. So I can imagine you could structu an 196 00:13:44,293 --> 00:13:47,933 Speaker 2: organization to do that. It's probably something where people can 197 00:13:47,973 --> 00:13:49,653 Speaker 2: only stay five or ten years and they have to 198 00:13:49,773 --> 00:13:52,893 Speaker 2: rotate out anyway, so it doesn't become their permanent home. 199 00:13:53,533 --> 00:13:57,053 Speaker 2: But once you allow an organization to become a permanent 200 00:13:57,093 --> 00:13:59,893 Speaker 2: home for a large bureaucracy. It's not going to work 201 00:13:59,933 --> 00:14:02,333 Speaker 2: its way out of assistance. It's going to look to grow, 202 00:14:02,933 --> 00:14:07,373 Speaker 2: because that's just what human institutions do. And in Who's case, 203 00:14:07,533 --> 00:14:11,653 Speaker 2: to grow meant throwing away essentially a lot of the 204 00:14:11,693 --> 00:14:16,693 Speaker 2: conflict of interests rules that they had in the past 205 00:14:16,813 --> 00:14:22,373 Speaker 2: and getting to bed with large corporations and private sector investors, 206 00:14:23,413 --> 00:14:25,973 Speaker 2: and so about twenty five percent of their budget now 207 00:14:26,213 --> 00:14:32,973 Speaker 2: is directly from or directly from private sector, and most 208 00:14:32,973 --> 00:14:35,693 Speaker 2: of their budget, whether from countries or private sector, is 209 00:14:35,733 --> 00:14:39,493 Speaker 2: specified so that the funder tells you what you would 210 00:14:39,533 --> 00:14:42,453 Speaker 2: do with that money. That's not how Who started. It 211 00:14:42,533 --> 00:14:46,413 Speaker 2: was supposed to be an organization where technical expertise, at 212 00:14:46,413 --> 00:14:51,373 Speaker 2: the request of countries would be used to address the 213 00:14:51,893 --> 00:14:55,933 Speaker 2: needs of those countries. It's become, through its budget, an 214 00:14:56,053 --> 00:15:00,173 Speaker 2: organization that follows the instructions of those who are giving 215 00:15:00,213 --> 00:15:03,933 Speaker 2: up money. And that happens because you keep thinking more 216 00:15:04,053 --> 00:15:08,293 Speaker 2: money will be good, and you're you know you're capable 217 00:15:08,533 --> 00:15:10,973 Speaker 2: of handing in the conflict of interest bit and you 218 00:15:11,013 --> 00:15:13,093 Speaker 2: won't be corrupted at sea, but of course you are, 219 00:15:13,173 --> 00:15:15,493 Speaker 2: because you know that to get refunded next year, you 220 00:15:15,573 --> 00:15:18,693 Speaker 2: have to please that funder. So when I worked in WHO, 221 00:15:18,773 --> 00:15:21,853 Speaker 2: I saw this growing. I started in about two thousand 222 00:15:21,853 --> 00:15:24,573 Speaker 2: and two worked there for about eight or ten years, 223 00:15:24,613 --> 00:15:28,413 Speaker 2: and this was a period particularly where private foundations became 224 00:15:28,973 --> 00:15:34,093 Speaker 2: very influential, where the probably private partnerships alongside WHO grew 225 00:15:34,173 --> 00:15:38,853 Speaker 2: up and became influential on it. And the COVID response 226 00:15:38,933 --> 00:15:45,013 Speaker 2: is the inevitable result of that. It was essentially restructuring 227 00:15:45,533 --> 00:15:51,213 Speaker 2: response to outbreaks in order to maximize profit through mass 228 00:15:51,293 --> 00:15:55,693 Speaker 2: vaccination forever a disease that almost really almost no one 229 00:15:55,693 --> 00:15:59,173 Speaker 2: should have been needed to be vaccinated. So the reason 230 00:15:59,253 --> 00:16:01,493 Speaker 2: for that, and the reason they abandoned their old guidelines 231 00:16:01,533 --> 00:16:04,413 Speaker 2: and did that was because that was what they needed 232 00:16:04,453 --> 00:16:09,933 Speaker 2: to do to please their funders. So it's WHO is 233 00:16:09,973 --> 00:16:12,453 Speaker 2: a tool of others. It's supposed to be a tool 234 00:16:12,493 --> 00:16:15,293 Speaker 2: of countries, so it should be a temporary tool until 235 00:16:15,293 --> 00:16:17,293 Speaker 2: the countries stand on their own feet. Has become a 236 00:16:17,333 --> 00:16:22,693 Speaker 2: tool of the pharmaceutical industry and biotech and those who 237 00:16:22,733 --> 00:16:25,773 Speaker 2: invest in it. Yeah, so I think you know Shane 238 00:16:25,853 --> 00:16:32,893 Speaker 2: Jones's variety. It is not contributing. Now, there's no reason 239 00:16:32,973 --> 00:16:36,853 Speaker 2: for it to grow because actually infectious disease mortality has 240 00:16:36,853 --> 00:16:40,613 Speaker 2: been steadily declining despite all the hype, and over the 241 00:16:40,693 --> 00:16:46,973 Speaker 2: last many decades the mortality from outbreaks and from pandemics 242 00:16:47,013 --> 00:16:51,453 Speaker 2: has been declining. So COVID was an outlier which very 243 00:16:51,653 --> 00:16:57,013 Speaker 2: likely was not a natural outbreak, and certainly many of 244 00:16:57,053 --> 00:17:01,893 Speaker 2: the deaths from covid iatrogenic. There's really little doubt about that. 245 00:17:02,013 --> 00:17:04,893 Speaker 2: With the mass use of drugs like rendeser bear and 246 00:17:05,853 --> 00:17:10,493 Speaker 2: very early intubation early on in the pandemic, so people panicked, 247 00:17:11,933 --> 00:17:14,733 Speaker 2: they do that. That happened because there was a huge 248 00:17:14,773 --> 00:17:18,253 Speaker 2: media operation to make people panic. Then the now mortality 249 00:17:18,293 --> 00:17:21,733 Speaker 2: is almost zero, and most of that is from people 250 00:17:21,813 --> 00:17:26,053 Speaker 2: gaining well one from people gaining natural immunity too, because 251 00:17:26,853 --> 00:17:29,493 Speaker 2: if you just leave it as you would treat a 252 00:17:29,533 --> 00:17:31,893 Speaker 2: common cold, then for the vast majority of the population, 253 00:17:31,973 --> 00:17:36,053 Speaker 2: that'll be what it is. So it was used as 254 00:17:36,093 --> 00:17:40,253 Speaker 2: a tool to please these funders. But apart from that, 255 00:17:40,293 --> 00:17:43,533 Speaker 2: there is very little in the way of out breaks astray, 256 00:17:44,053 --> 00:17:48,813 Speaker 2: the mass cholor of mortality, the plague, that yellow fever 257 00:17:48,853 --> 00:17:51,853 Speaker 2: and so on. We have very small outbreaks. Now these 258 00:17:51,853 --> 00:17:55,093 Speaker 2: are things of the past, so there's no good reason 259 00:17:55,293 --> 00:17:57,413 Speaker 2: for the who to be growing at all. It should 260 00:17:57,453 --> 00:17:58,013 Speaker 2: be shrinking. 261 00:17:59,293 --> 00:18:00,133 Speaker 3: But it's not going to. 262 00:18:01,773 --> 00:18:05,893 Speaker 2: It's not going to unless there's a radical change in 263 00:18:05,933 --> 00:18:09,133 Speaker 2: the way it's run. And it is hard to see 264 00:18:09,173 --> 00:18:11,853 Speaker 2: how that would happen because an organization that you've got 265 00:18:11,893 --> 00:18:15,493 Speaker 2: to do that change to a large extent through people 266 00:18:15,533 --> 00:18:17,213 Speaker 2: there who would be extremely resistant. 267 00:18:18,093 --> 00:18:22,773 Speaker 3: I know that we've discussed this before from one aspect anyway, 268 00:18:23,053 --> 00:18:26,373 Speaker 3: but let me let me just raise it again. What 269 00:18:26,493 --> 00:18:31,133 Speaker 3: would be the on going back to the conflict between 270 00:18:31,333 --> 00:18:35,333 Speaker 3: Shane Jones, just to use this as an example, and journalists, 271 00:18:35,733 --> 00:18:39,413 Speaker 3: because the journalists are pretty much all the same. They're 272 00:18:39,653 --> 00:18:42,493 Speaker 3: the same over the over the American election as well. 273 00:18:42,853 --> 00:18:46,813 Speaker 3: They can't help themselves. But if New Zealand were to 274 00:18:46,933 --> 00:18:50,893 Speaker 3: not participate in the changes that are being made by 275 00:18:50,893 --> 00:18:54,493 Speaker 3: the World Health Organization, what would be the downside? 276 00:18:55,693 --> 00:19:00,253 Speaker 2: None For New Zealand. It would save some money and 277 00:19:00,373 --> 00:19:06,453 Speaker 2: it would not be essentially forced to build a large 278 00:19:06,853 --> 00:19:11,453 Speaker 2: surveillance network to find viral variant and then risk you know, 279 00:19:11,653 --> 00:19:14,733 Speaker 2: being having to lock down and destroy your economy again 280 00:19:15,173 --> 00:19:19,213 Speaker 2: to assuage the needs of people in Geneva. So there 281 00:19:19,213 --> 00:19:22,293 Speaker 2: are plenty of diseases for New Zealanders to deal with. 282 00:19:22,973 --> 00:19:26,253 Speaker 2: Most people die of cancer, heart disease, cutting vascular disease, 283 00:19:26,253 --> 00:19:31,093 Speaker 2: et cetera. There are still significant rheumatic heart disease and 284 00:19:31,173 --> 00:19:38,213 Speaker 2: other infection based mortality in all populations, include particularly indigenous 285 00:19:38,253 --> 00:19:41,093 Speaker 2: populations around the Pacific and so on. There's plenty for 286 00:19:41,173 --> 00:19:44,613 Speaker 2: New Zealand to do without participating in a sort of 287 00:19:45,813 --> 00:19:52,493 Speaker 2: essentially fast this falsification of risk. So there's nothing that 288 00:19:52,493 --> 00:19:55,373 Speaker 2: wouldn't matter unless you got to a situation where the 289 00:19:55,413 --> 00:19:57,613 Speaker 2: World Bank and the IMF, who are very on board 290 00:19:57,693 --> 00:20:04,493 Speaker 2: with this agenda of who decided to punish New Zealand. 291 00:20:04,573 --> 00:20:06,773 Speaker 2: And New Zealand now I think has a very large 292 00:20:06,853 --> 00:20:11,613 Speaker 2: natural debt, which I think during the COVID response many countries, 293 00:20:12,133 --> 00:20:16,533 Speaker 2: so that makes you much more vulnerable to that. So 294 00:20:18,173 --> 00:20:20,533 Speaker 2: I mean, we'll come back to the US, but this 295 00:20:20,613 --> 00:20:23,453 Speaker 2: is where it'll be interesting to see whether the international 296 00:20:23,533 --> 00:20:27,133 Speaker 2: political situation has changed such that you can't be punished 297 00:20:27,133 --> 00:20:28,573 Speaker 2: for that, because that will take a lot of the 298 00:20:28,613 --> 00:20:31,493 Speaker 2: wind out of the sales of the pandemic. 299 00:20:31,973 --> 00:20:37,253 Speaker 3: I don't know whether this is international or spreads wider 300 00:20:37,333 --> 00:20:41,333 Speaker 3: than New Zealand, but I've noticed that the people who 301 00:20:43,413 --> 00:20:49,533 Speaker 3: are deserving of some degree of condemnation over their behavior 302 00:20:49,573 --> 00:20:54,293 Speaker 3: and attitude toward the administration of the last few years. 303 00:20:54,773 --> 00:20:58,093 Speaker 3: Are the same people who are promoting and pushing hardest 304 00:20:58,653 --> 00:21:03,613 Speaker 3: for New Zealand to participate in the latest changes being 305 00:21:03,813 --> 00:21:07,253 Speaker 3: made by the Who Why would that be, do you think? 306 00:21:08,413 --> 00:21:13,053 Speaker 2: Yeah, I think it's a range of motivations. Some people, 307 00:21:13,093 --> 00:21:16,453 Speaker 2: I think they do very well from funding from the 308 00:21:16,493 --> 00:21:20,413 Speaker 2: pharmaceutical sector who are very much behind this agenda because 309 00:21:20,413 --> 00:21:22,933 Speaker 2: they see hundreds of billions of dollars of profit in 310 00:21:22,973 --> 00:21:26,613 Speaker 2: the long term. So they're doing what they're paid for 311 00:21:26,733 --> 00:21:30,013 Speaker 2: probably or what they were. They're saying what they see 312 00:21:30,413 --> 00:21:33,133 Speaker 2: as the best potential for them to get paid in 313 00:21:33,173 --> 00:21:36,733 Speaker 2: the future. I think others, as we said that they 314 00:21:36,813 --> 00:21:42,293 Speaker 2: genuinely believe this story, that they just assume that these 315 00:21:42,373 --> 00:21:45,853 Speaker 2: large institutions would be telling the truth, that they have expertise, 316 00:21:45,973 --> 00:21:50,653 Speaker 2: which they don't, and that they are you know, so 317 00:21:50,693 --> 00:21:52,693 Speaker 2: they just go along and they're not going to stop 318 00:21:52,693 --> 00:21:55,093 Speaker 2: and think deeply, because they've all been told that anyone 319 00:21:55,093 --> 00:21:58,653 Speaker 2: who does is a right wing conspiracy theorist and they're 320 00:21:58,693 --> 00:22:01,493 Speaker 2: likely to be vilified. So they you know, if you 321 00:22:01,573 --> 00:22:04,693 Speaker 2: want a good job in global health, interational public health, 322 00:22:05,413 --> 00:22:08,493 Speaker 2: you don't stick your head out like that. And I 323 00:22:08,573 --> 00:22:12,333 Speaker 2: think others they may be realizing, they may dig down 324 00:22:12,413 --> 00:22:16,253 Speaker 2: that this was a mistake for whatever the reason they 325 00:22:16,253 --> 00:22:19,493 Speaker 2: went on in the first place. But it's really difficult 326 00:22:19,493 --> 00:22:21,173 Speaker 2: to admit that. If you sort of stated to your 327 00:22:21,213 --> 00:22:26,533 Speaker 2: reputation got really famous in the media, etc. On saying 328 00:22:26,573 --> 00:22:30,693 Speaker 2: one thing, it's pretty difficult to backtrack then and say, well, actually, 329 00:22:31,933 --> 00:22:35,573 Speaker 2: pandemics aren't at big risk to humankind, and you know, 330 00:22:35,653 --> 00:22:38,173 Speaker 2: we have much bigger things to deal with. COVID was 331 00:22:38,613 --> 00:22:41,613 Speaker 2: a huge overreaction. We should have known better, and let's 332 00:22:41,813 --> 00:22:44,533 Speaker 2: do better now that there's not many people doing that. 333 00:22:44,933 --> 00:22:47,573 Speaker 2: Most of the noise among those people is that we 334 00:22:47,613 --> 00:22:53,293 Speaker 2: should have locked down faster and more strongly, which it's 335 00:22:53,413 --> 00:22:56,053 Speaker 2: essentially saying we should destroy the economy more for longer. 336 00:22:56,493 --> 00:22:59,653 Speaker 2: There is no good evidence that lockdowns did anything except 337 00:22:59,773 --> 00:23:03,773 Speaker 2: slightly slow transmission. So it is different perhaps in island 338 00:23:03,773 --> 00:23:07,733 Speaker 2: states where you know you could keep it out for longer. 339 00:23:07,773 --> 00:23:10,893 Speaker 2: But now you haven't gained over the four years in 340 00:23:10,973 --> 00:23:14,413 Speaker 2: terms of all cause mortality compared to other countries that 341 00:23:14,533 --> 00:23:17,933 Speaker 2: didn't act in that way, So you're not better off 342 00:23:18,133 --> 00:23:22,613 Speaker 2: over the four years, and you have an economy now 343 00:23:22,653 --> 00:23:24,973 Speaker 2: that makes you very vulnerable and it is going to 344 00:23:24,973 --> 00:23:29,733 Speaker 2: be have a huge impact on your ability to manage 345 00:23:29,733 --> 00:23:32,853 Speaker 2: your nation's sealth in the future. So I think there's 346 00:23:32,893 --> 00:23:36,213 Speaker 2: not much doubt that it was probably a mistake, even 347 00:23:36,253 --> 00:23:39,813 Speaker 2: in New Zealand where there appeared to be as an 348 00:23:39,853 --> 00:23:43,293 Speaker 2: island you could keep everyone out and sort of pretended 349 00:23:43,413 --> 00:23:45,973 Speaker 2: the world didn't exist. But did I mention does? And 350 00:23:46,013 --> 00:23:47,493 Speaker 2: you've wracked up a lot of problems? 351 00:23:47,933 --> 00:23:50,733 Speaker 3: Did I mention? I? No, I didn't, And I don't 352 00:23:50,773 --> 00:23:52,853 Speaker 3: think it was I don't think it was mentioned in 353 00:23:52,853 --> 00:23:56,653 Speaker 3: the last conversation we had when you were here midyear. 354 00:23:57,053 --> 00:24:00,973 Speaker 3: But they're still advertising for people to go get the job. 355 00:24:01,853 --> 00:24:04,973 Speaker 3: Oh ye, get updated, Get updated, Get updated. The signs 356 00:24:04,973 --> 00:24:06,133 Speaker 3: are out the front of the farmer. 357 00:24:07,533 --> 00:24:11,093 Speaker 2: Distilling us as well from six months upwards here for 358 00:24:11,893 --> 00:24:14,533 Speaker 2: there is zero evidence of benefit. 359 00:24:17,293 --> 00:24:20,373 Speaker 3: Who preys hell is responsible for that in the States. 360 00:24:21,013 --> 00:24:25,533 Speaker 2: In the States it's officially CDC, so they have their 361 00:24:25,613 --> 00:24:29,173 Speaker 2: vaccine schedule for children and from six months up you're 362 00:24:29,173 --> 00:24:32,373 Speaker 2: expected to get a series of MR and a injection 363 00:24:32,613 --> 00:24:35,533 Speaker 2: which they know will concentrate in the over eas of 364 00:24:35,613 --> 00:24:39,173 Speaker 2: young girls and in the livers and adrenal glands of 365 00:24:39,253 --> 00:24:42,853 Speaker 2: girls and boys. Et cetera. And they know that healthy 366 00:24:42,893 --> 00:24:47,733 Speaker 2: boys and girls and infants have almost near zero risk 367 00:24:47,773 --> 00:24:49,933 Speaker 2: of dying of COVID sort of less than one million, 368 00:24:50,173 --> 00:24:52,533 Speaker 2: so that there is no logic to any of this 369 00:24:53,213 --> 00:24:58,053 Speaker 2: except the potential for profit and the sort of around 370 00:24:58,093 --> 00:25:00,733 Speaker 2: that the sort of people who put their reputations want 371 00:25:00,733 --> 00:25:05,373 Speaker 2: to preserve them, et cetera. So there's no public health 372 00:25:06,653 --> 00:25:09,973 Speaker 2: rational public health basis that you can really follow to 373 00:25:10,213 --> 00:25:10,813 Speaker 2: justify this. 374 00:25:11,333 --> 00:25:16,573 Speaker 3: So the mRNA vaccine that accumulates in different parts of 375 00:25:16,813 --> 00:25:21,133 Speaker 3: children's bodies does or can do how much damage. 376 00:25:21,133 --> 00:25:23,613 Speaker 2: We don't know because we don't have long term studies 377 00:25:23,653 --> 00:25:26,693 Speaker 2: on this, or even decent short term studies, so there's 378 00:25:26,813 --> 00:25:31,093 Speaker 2: no even now there are no ongoing studies that they 379 00:25:31,733 --> 00:25:35,253 Speaker 2: in adults. They after six months they lost the control group, 380 00:25:35,653 --> 00:25:39,133 Speaker 2: so we can't compare. But we know the six months 381 00:25:39,133 --> 00:25:43,013 Speaker 2: for the Maderna and Pisa trials. There was Maderna, the 382 00:25:43,133 --> 00:25:45,373 Speaker 2: au course mortality was the same in the control group 383 00:25:45,413 --> 00:25:49,373 Speaker 2: and the vaccinated group in Maderna. For Pisa, there were 384 00:25:49,373 --> 00:25:51,813 Speaker 2: more deaths in the vaccinated group than the control group, 385 00:25:52,093 --> 00:25:56,653 Speaker 2: so it was no effect or negative at six months. 386 00:25:56,653 --> 00:25:59,373 Speaker 2: In adults, we don't have good data on any other 387 00:25:59,453 --> 00:26:03,973 Speaker 2: age group. So for each new booster sort of type 388 00:26:04,013 --> 00:26:07,013 Speaker 2: in in the US where they changed to a new variant, 389 00:26:07,133 --> 00:26:10,293 Speaker 2: they test on I think is eight rats and they 390 00:26:10,373 --> 00:26:14,013 Speaker 2: see if those rats produce antibodies, and they take that 391 00:26:14,093 --> 00:26:17,093 Speaker 2: as the vaccine works, so that they don't even have 392 00:26:17,213 --> 00:26:21,133 Speaker 2: human trials on the new versions now, so we have 393 00:26:21,573 --> 00:26:25,653 Speaker 2: a passive and very flawed adverse reporting system of AIRS 394 00:26:25,693 --> 00:26:28,173 Speaker 2: in the US and Australian New Zealand so on have 395 00:26:28,213 --> 00:26:33,173 Speaker 2: their own. They show more high mortality and all severe 396 00:26:33,213 --> 00:26:40,093 Speaker 2: effects reported for associated with the MRA with COVID injections 397 00:26:40,853 --> 00:26:44,853 Speaker 2: then for all other vaccinations combined in the thirty years 398 00:26:44,853 --> 00:26:48,613 Speaker 2: that FAIRS and the US has been running. So that's 399 00:26:49,013 --> 00:26:53,053 Speaker 2: obviously a huge red flag normally, so to go and 400 00:26:53,133 --> 00:26:56,933 Speaker 2: give that sort of thing to infants who like health 401 00:26:56,973 --> 00:27:02,293 Speaker 2: infants don't die of COVID, you're almost never. But we know, 402 00:27:02,733 --> 00:27:06,453 Speaker 2: we don't know what if you take, for instance, the 403 00:27:06,533 --> 00:27:09,453 Speaker 2: accumulation of the ovaries. We know, and we knew before 404 00:27:09,453 --> 00:27:14,613 Speaker 2: they started injecting anyone that the liber nanoparticles accumulates in 405 00:27:14,653 --> 00:27:17,973 Speaker 2: the ovaries in rats. They've never looked at it in 406 00:27:18,093 --> 00:27:20,653 Speaker 2: humans where we assumans are same. A girl was born 407 00:27:20,693 --> 00:27:23,653 Speaker 2: with a certain number of over so that that determines 408 00:27:24,253 --> 00:27:26,853 Speaker 2: the length of their fertility period when they're an adult. 409 00:27:27,893 --> 00:27:30,773 Speaker 2: So the way the M marina vaccines work, they their 410 00:27:30,773 --> 00:27:33,013 Speaker 2: marinae goes into a cell and it last quite a 411 00:27:33,013 --> 00:27:36,133 Speaker 2: long time because it's not normal m RNA. It's modified. 412 00:27:36,173 --> 00:27:38,213 Speaker 2: One of their bases is modified to make it last 413 00:27:38,333 --> 00:27:41,653 Speaker 2: much longer. So the story about it. M marinae lasts 414 00:27:41,693 --> 00:27:44,173 Speaker 2: only a few days in the cell. It's true. But 415 00:27:44,333 --> 00:27:46,973 Speaker 2: this isn't that sort of m RNA. It's a modified 416 00:27:48,213 --> 00:27:51,173 Speaker 2: The US bas is modified and makes it. They did 417 00:27:51,173 --> 00:27:53,013 Speaker 2: that to make it stay in the cell much longer 418 00:27:53,053 --> 00:27:54,413 Speaker 2: and produce much more protein. 419 00:27:54,653 --> 00:27:57,573 Speaker 3: And that's right, that's right. That's right from the beginning 420 00:27:57,693 --> 00:28:01,813 Speaker 3: of U from the beginning right back. And they knew it. 421 00:28:02,293 --> 00:28:07,293 Speaker 2: So yeah, yes, So it it goes to the cell. 422 00:28:07,453 --> 00:28:10,573 Speaker 2: It's called a machine of the cell to produce a 423 00:28:10,613 --> 00:28:14,573 Speaker 2: toxic protein spike protein that the body recognizes as a 424 00:28:14,653 --> 00:28:19,373 Speaker 2: foreign protein. So it eimulates an immune reous bonse against 425 00:28:19,373 --> 00:28:21,733 Speaker 2: a protein which is expressed on that cell. So it 426 00:28:21,733 --> 00:28:24,653 Speaker 2: will kill that cell as well, and it will cause 427 00:28:24,693 --> 00:28:27,213 Speaker 2: some local inflammation, which is what happens when you get 428 00:28:27,253 --> 00:28:31,693 Speaker 2: cell death. So if it concentrates in the ovaries, you'll 429 00:28:31,733 --> 00:28:35,493 Speaker 2: get some local inflammation in the ovaries and some cell 430 00:28:35,573 --> 00:28:37,413 Speaker 2: death in the ovaries. If it's in the liver, the 431 00:28:37,453 --> 00:28:42,373 Speaker 2: same et cetera. That's how it works. So it's not 432 00:28:42,533 --> 00:28:45,333 Speaker 2: an unreasonable assumption that you will lose some over during 433 00:28:45,373 --> 00:28:48,333 Speaker 2: that period and you'll have a shorter fertility period as 434 00:28:48,333 --> 00:28:51,773 Speaker 2: an adult. We don't know that, but it's not an 435 00:28:51,893 --> 00:28:56,813 Speaker 2: unreasonable assumption. We will find out in twenty or thirty 436 00:28:56,893 --> 00:28:59,133 Speaker 2: years time when the little girls who have been just 437 00:28:59,173 --> 00:29:02,933 Speaker 2: been vaccinated now go into menopause and will see how 438 00:29:02,973 --> 00:29:07,773 Speaker 2: long they had the fertility period. Yet they're still being 439 00:29:08,413 --> 00:29:13,653 Speaker 2: injected in this situation, and although they are not initiate 440 00:29:13,773 --> 00:29:17,333 Speaker 2: purpose of COVID, they've all got Everyone by now has 441 00:29:17,413 --> 00:29:21,373 Speaker 2: had COVID and has a pretty good immunity. And the 442 00:29:21,413 --> 00:29:24,973 Speaker 2: CDC did studies that compared directly, you know, did you 443 00:29:25,013 --> 00:29:29,813 Speaker 2: go into hospital, did you die just after post infection immunity? 444 00:29:30,013 --> 00:29:32,253 Speaker 2: And you know when you get another infection, or if 445 00:29:32,293 --> 00:29:35,333 Speaker 2: you have vaccinate and you get an infection and there's 446 00:29:35,653 --> 00:29:39,293 Speaker 2: you're slightly better off with natural immunity than the vaccine, 447 00:29:39,733 --> 00:29:42,613 Speaker 2: and the vaccine on top of the natural immunity makes 448 00:29:42,653 --> 00:29:46,213 Speaker 2: almost no discernible difference. So we have all the data 449 00:29:46,293 --> 00:29:51,253 Speaker 2: that says if you've had an infection, you're highly unlikely 450 00:29:51,373 --> 00:29:55,013 Speaker 2: to get severely or and the vaccine won't help significantly 451 00:29:55,013 --> 00:29:58,373 Speaker 2: at all. This is a situation with everyone now. So 452 00:29:58,933 --> 00:30:03,253 Speaker 2: this is CDC data. It's published. The data on the 453 00:30:03,253 --> 00:30:07,693 Speaker 2: biodistribution going to the ovaries, et cetera is published by 454 00:30:07,933 --> 00:30:13,093 Speaker 2: fires Biointech and with the regulatory agencies when they have 455 00:30:13,213 --> 00:30:16,573 Speaker 2: proved the vaccines. Now they also had data from rats 456 00:30:16,613 --> 00:30:21,973 Speaker 2: on an increase in feudal animalities, very significant increase compared 457 00:30:22,013 --> 00:30:25,173 Speaker 2: to the control group in that same experiment. Yet they 458 00:30:25,413 --> 00:30:28,933 Speaker 2: recommended for pregnant women, so we've been through this period 459 00:30:28,933 --> 00:30:32,733 Speaker 2: that is actually hard to grasp as a public health 460 00:30:32,773 --> 00:30:38,453 Speaker 2: physician in terms of the recklessness with which this was 461 00:30:38,493 --> 00:30:43,173 Speaker 2: imposed on particularly is very vulnerable groups. Pregnant women and 462 00:30:43,453 --> 00:30:46,453 Speaker 2: young children are usually the very last ones to be 463 00:30:46,853 --> 00:30:49,373 Speaker 2: injected with a new drug, and only after years of 464 00:30:49,413 --> 00:30:52,853 Speaker 2: experience and then very careful studies. So none of that 465 00:30:52,933 --> 00:30:58,693 Speaker 2: happened normally with genetic therapeutic, which is what these are 466 00:30:58,733 --> 00:31:01,373 Speaker 2: and what they were classified as by Madina. You have 467 00:31:01,493 --> 00:31:04,853 Speaker 2: to do castinogenicity studies to see if it courses cancer. 468 00:31:05,253 --> 00:31:08,093 Speaker 2: You have to do teriratogenicity studies, which is what they did. 469 00:31:08,653 --> 00:31:10,293 Speaker 2: Being need to watch that in humans as well to 470 00:31:10,333 --> 00:31:14,213 Speaker 2: see if they fall cause fetal animalities. You have to 471 00:31:14,253 --> 00:31:17,173 Speaker 2: do that with a genetic therapeutic, which is what these are. 472 00:31:17,733 --> 00:31:20,173 Speaker 2: You don't have to do it with a vaccine. So 473 00:31:20,293 --> 00:31:22,893 Speaker 2: when they change the name to vaccine, they did away 474 00:31:22,893 --> 00:31:24,853 Speaker 2: with all the stuff that you have to do for 475 00:31:24,973 --> 00:31:29,333 Speaker 2: this sort of class of pharmaceutical, and this is acknowledged 476 00:31:29,413 --> 00:31:36,693 Speaker 2: in the TGA report from Australia, the Australian regulatory agency, 477 00:31:36,813 --> 00:31:39,893 Speaker 2: the Therapeutic Goods Administration. They acknowledged this in the report 478 00:31:39,933 --> 00:31:41,693 Speaker 2: that the name change means that they didn't need to 479 00:31:41,693 --> 00:31:42,013 Speaker 2: do this. 480 00:31:43,453 --> 00:31:43,853 Speaker 3: So you. 481 00:31:45,493 --> 00:31:48,613 Speaker 2: Can imagine if you had an existential threat from sort 482 00:31:48,653 --> 00:31:51,413 Speaker 2: of airborne and bowler, which is never going to happen, 483 00:31:51,453 --> 00:31:53,413 Speaker 2: never happened in human history, et cetera. But it's in 484 00:31:53,453 --> 00:31:56,933 Speaker 2: the movies that you might take these sorts of risks. 485 00:31:57,333 --> 00:32:01,293 Speaker 2: But it makes no sense for a virus that is 486 00:32:01,333 --> 00:32:04,093 Speaker 2: associated with death on average in Europe at the age 487 00:32:04,133 --> 00:32:07,053 Speaker 2: of about eighty to eighty three, and those people are 488 00:32:07,053 --> 00:32:09,253 Speaker 2: the sick ones at that age, it's not the world ones. 489 00:32:10,573 --> 00:32:12,573 Speaker 2: And that's what we faced with COVID. That's what we 490 00:32:12,653 --> 00:32:15,053 Speaker 2: knew were facing with COVID from the first quarter of 491 00:32:15,053 --> 00:32:18,933 Speaker 2: twenty twenty and has published in an answered So that 492 00:32:19,053 --> 00:32:22,093 Speaker 2: is what we're dealing with. That is what happened. I 493 00:32:22,133 --> 00:32:24,413 Speaker 2: think that has got a lot to do with why 494 00:32:25,133 --> 00:32:27,573 Speaker 2: we keep seeing this push and keep seeing this pushed, 495 00:32:28,133 --> 00:32:30,413 Speaker 2: rather than people sitting back and saying, this is what 496 00:32:30,453 --> 00:32:33,773 Speaker 2: we actually did, because it's a big thing to admit. 497 00:32:34,413 --> 00:32:39,613 Speaker 3: Well, let me cut to this paragraph. Knowing fully the 498 00:32:39,733 --> 00:32:41,613 Speaker 3: impact of their actions, and you've said a couple of 499 00:32:41,693 --> 00:32:43,613 Speaker 3: times now they knew what they would, they knew what 500 00:32:43,613 --> 00:32:45,853 Speaker 3: they were doing, and they knew what they were causing. 501 00:32:46,333 --> 00:32:49,933 Speaker 3: Knowing fully the impact of their actions, who helped force 502 00:32:49,973 --> 00:32:54,373 Speaker 3: over one hundred million additional people into severe food insecurity 503 00:32:54,373 --> 00:32:59,093 Speaker 3: and poverty, up to ten million additional girls into child marriage. 504 00:32:59,173 --> 00:33:01,733 Speaker 3: And when you mentioned this before, I don't think you 505 00:33:01,813 --> 00:33:03,093 Speaker 3: mentioned sexual slavery. 506 00:33:04,253 --> 00:33:07,893 Speaker 2: Well, that's what chold marriage is. Yeah, well, yeah, it's 507 00:33:07,973 --> 00:33:12,493 Speaker 2: sexual so free rape etctera. So that's you know, you 508 00:33:12,653 --> 00:33:15,733 Speaker 2: take a thirteen year old girl and you stick with 509 00:33:15,773 --> 00:33:17,413 Speaker 2: an old man, that's what you're doing. Isn't it. 510 00:33:17,973 --> 00:33:20,613 Speaker 3: Where does the figure though? People? You know, anybody who 511 00:33:20,733 --> 00:33:25,453 Speaker 3: was being interrogative would say to you, where do you 512 00:33:25,493 --> 00:33:27,693 Speaker 3: get the figure of ten million plucked out of. 513 00:33:27,693 --> 00:33:32,213 Speaker 2: The Yeah, that's from UNICF. That's from UNISF, the United 514 00:33:32,293 --> 00:33:38,773 Speaker 2: Nations Children Educational Furnish whatever, the official u an agency 515 00:33:38,813 --> 00:33:41,413 Speaker 2: for children. What are you U suggesting that they're trust 516 00:33:42,693 --> 00:33:49,013 Speaker 2: So that's published. No, but they are like other agencies. 517 00:33:49,013 --> 00:33:50,893 Speaker 2: They have a mix of people. They put out some 518 00:33:51,493 --> 00:33:56,053 Speaker 2: as did WHO, some early on, some very good data 519 00:33:56,093 --> 00:34:00,093 Speaker 2: and modeling and so on, the lightly harms of this intervention. 520 00:34:00,333 --> 00:34:04,013 Speaker 2: So you have to remember that in twenty nineteen, late 521 00:34:04,053 --> 00:34:08,293 Speaker 2: twenty nineteen, about October November, WHO put out the pandem 522 00:34:08,573 --> 00:34:16,093 Speaker 2: Influenza Recommendations, which essentially say, don't do this under no circumstances, 523 00:34:16,133 --> 00:34:23,293 Speaker 2: closed borders, do this sort of mass tests and trace 524 00:34:23,333 --> 00:34:27,133 Speaker 2: et cetera. So or you know, the big features of COVID, 525 00:34:27,453 --> 00:34:29,893 Speaker 2: and they point out that if you put people out 526 00:34:29,933 --> 00:34:32,813 Speaker 2: of work for seven to ten days, you're likely to 527 00:34:32,853 --> 00:34:38,133 Speaker 2: start seeing overall negative outcomes, particularly in low income people, 528 00:34:38,453 --> 00:34:41,613 Speaker 2: because of the harm to of the economy and their income, etcetera. 529 00:34:41,733 --> 00:34:44,173 Speaker 2: So UNISEF also, you know, they put out at the 530 00:34:44,293 --> 00:34:48,573 Speaker 2: end of or in early twenty twenty one, estimates that 531 00:34:49,053 --> 00:34:51,213 Speaker 2: were almost a quarter of a million dead children just 532 00:34:51,213 --> 00:34:55,733 Speaker 2: from lockdowns in South Asia, so India, Pakistan, Bangladesh, et cetera. 533 00:34:55,853 --> 00:34:59,933 Speaker 2: Six countries, almost a quarter million children. They are almost 534 00:35:00,013 --> 00:35:02,813 Speaker 2: no children are dying from COVID that the World Bank 535 00:35:02,973 --> 00:35:08,253 Speaker 2: put out estimates in low income countries, for every person 536 00:35:08,413 --> 00:35:12,213 Speaker 2: that was saved by lockdowns, probably about two people died. 537 00:35:12,373 --> 00:35:16,093 Speaker 2: One point sevent to two people died. It's the World Bank, 538 00:35:16,693 --> 00:35:20,333 Speaker 2: which is the same organization pushing the whole thing. So 539 00:35:21,213 --> 00:35:25,013 Speaker 2: these organizations are not that. They're large organizations and they 540 00:35:25,013 --> 00:35:27,573 Speaker 2: have some people in them who are trying to work 541 00:35:27,613 --> 00:35:32,493 Speaker 2: against the tide and actually get sensible data out You me, 542 00:35:32,973 --> 00:35:35,933 Speaker 2: and sorry, no, I was just going to say, I mean, 543 00:35:35,973 --> 00:35:39,653 Speaker 2: it's not made up. These are say ten million girls. 544 00:35:39,653 --> 00:35:43,573 Speaker 2: That's because if you close schools and you impoverished families, 545 00:35:43,853 --> 00:35:48,733 Speaker 2: particularly in South Asia, Subsaharan Africa and South America, then 546 00:35:48,773 --> 00:35:51,413 Speaker 2: we know that a lot of girls will come out 547 00:35:51,413 --> 00:35:54,453 Speaker 2: of school and they will be married off for various 548 00:35:54,493 --> 00:35:57,933 Speaker 2: reasons including the family doesn't feel that they can afford 549 00:35:57,973 --> 00:36:02,293 Speaker 2: to keep them anymore. And so this is what happens. 550 00:36:02,333 --> 00:36:06,013 Speaker 2: This is well recognized. You know, there are organizations like 551 00:36:06,373 --> 00:36:11,453 Speaker 2: as a Child Not Bride pre COVID that were quite 552 00:36:11,493 --> 00:36:15,653 Speaker 2: prominent in trying to reduce child marriage and noting that 553 00:36:15,733 --> 00:36:20,653 Speaker 2: poverty is a big driver and keeping kids in school 554 00:36:20,813 --> 00:36:24,213 Speaker 2: is a big way of stopping it. We heard nothing 555 00:36:24,253 --> 00:36:28,213 Speaker 2: from them, so these figures aren't And this is where 556 00:36:28,453 --> 00:36:32,173 Speaker 2: I say, you know, this wasn't unexpected. It was known 557 00:36:32,293 --> 00:36:35,773 Speaker 2: that this sort of response would have these sorts of outcomes, 558 00:36:36,253 --> 00:36:39,613 Speaker 2: so it was intentional. Then the response was intentional, and 559 00:36:39,733 --> 00:36:43,653 Speaker 2: they knew that it would have this collateral damage, and 560 00:36:43,693 --> 00:36:46,413 Speaker 2: they knew that the disease they were doing it for, 561 00:36:47,173 --> 00:36:49,573 Speaker 2: so in Sub Saharan Africa would kill very very few 562 00:36:49,613 --> 00:36:55,613 Speaker 2: people because half the population there is under twenty, essentially children, 563 00:36:55,933 --> 00:36:59,053 Speaker 2: and only about less than one percent of populations over 564 00:36:59,133 --> 00:37:03,093 Speaker 2: seventy five, which is the high risk of COVID. Yeah, 565 00:37:03,773 --> 00:37:07,733 Speaker 2: so it was intentional to do these lockdowns. 566 00:37:08,333 --> 00:37:12,973 Speaker 3: What did you say was the morality level of the 567 00:37:13,053 --> 00:37:18,053 Speaker 3: people who you're discussing And you can stretch it wider 568 00:37:18,093 --> 00:37:22,813 Speaker 3: than that in the field, but that they know what's 569 00:37:22,893 --> 00:37:25,933 Speaker 3: going to happen, they know what they're doing, but they 570 00:37:25,973 --> 00:37:30,293 Speaker 3: do it anyway. Where is the morality level there or 571 00:37:30,333 --> 00:37:30,573 Speaker 3: is there? 572 00:37:30,613 --> 00:37:37,093 Speaker 2: No, doesn't seem very high. So we can all do this. 573 00:37:37,173 --> 00:37:41,493 Speaker 2: I mean, we can all talk ourselves into we can 574 00:37:41,573 --> 00:37:46,173 Speaker 2: convince ourselves if we really try, that something that is 575 00:37:46,253 --> 00:37:49,693 Speaker 2: bad is necessary or good. And you know, unfortunately we 576 00:37:49,733 --> 00:37:51,893 Speaker 2: have to do this because and you can pretend that 577 00:37:51,973 --> 00:37:55,413 Speaker 2: the virus is an existential threat, and it's pretty easy 578 00:37:55,413 --> 00:37:57,173 Speaker 2: to do that because you sort of get on board 579 00:37:57,173 --> 00:37:59,533 Speaker 2: with your colleagues and you see each other up and 580 00:37:59,893 --> 00:38:03,413 Speaker 2: here we are saving the words from a deadly virus 581 00:38:03,533 --> 00:38:05,933 Speaker 2: as we kept hearing, you know, twenty four to seven 582 00:38:05,933 --> 00:38:08,973 Speaker 2: and all that stuff. So you just you can get 583 00:38:09,013 --> 00:38:13,893 Speaker 2: yourself into this mindset, particularly in groups, where you can 584 00:38:13,933 --> 00:38:17,373 Speaker 2: then convince yourself as a group that you know, oh gee, 585 00:38:17,413 --> 00:38:20,093 Speaker 2: there's going to be some damage, but you're saving the world. 586 00:38:20,533 --> 00:38:24,173 Speaker 2: And if you stop, then you sit on a mountain 587 00:38:24,213 --> 00:38:26,693 Speaker 2: and you stop and you think carefully through it, you 588 00:38:26,813 --> 00:38:29,573 Speaker 2: realize that this is rubbish. But as long as you 589 00:38:29,613 --> 00:38:32,013 Speaker 2: stay in the group and you keep seeing each other along, 590 00:38:32,213 --> 00:38:34,973 Speaker 2: then I think you can sort of do this. And 591 00:38:36,493 --> 00:38:39,453 Speaker 2: so you know, it's how crowds work. And well, I'm 592 00:38:39,493 --> 00:38:42,253 Speaker 2: not trying to go down. I'm not trying to go 593 00:38:42,333 --> 00:38:46,013 Speaker 2: down a conspiracy path. But considering that there are people 594 00:38:46,173 --> 00:38:51,173 Speaker 2: involved at the very top of the money making tree 595 00:38:51,173 --> 00:38:55,333 Speaker 2: that this is who believe that the world is overpopulated, 596 00:38:55,613 --> 00:38:59,613 Speaker 2: but they have contributed greatly to this scenario. The negative 597 00:38:59,653 --> 00:39:03,533 Speaker 2: side of it, is there any natural conclusion or possible 598 00:39:03,613 --> 00:39:07,093 Speaker 2: natural conclusion we can come to over that or you 599 00:39:07,093 --> 00:39:09,693 Speaker 2: could draw that. But if if you're trying to kill people, 600 00:39:09,693 --> 00:39:12,933 Speaker 2: I think there's better ways of doing it if if 601 00:39:12,933 --> 00:39:16,773 Speaker 2: you're you know, another effect of this is that there's 602 00:39:16,773 --> 00:39:21,693 Speaker 2: a big production in reproductive health, so that there there's 603 00:39:21,893 --> 00:39:24,613 Speaker 2: an increase in birth rate in Sub Saharan Africa as well. 604 00:39:25,373 --> 00:39:27,893 Speaker 2: So this isn't going to reduce the world's population overall. 605 00:39:29,253 --> 00:39:32,813 Speaker 2: Is probably going to increase it because poverty tends to 606 00:39:32,933 --> 00:39:36,613 Speaker 2: lead to more children born as a sort of insurance policy, 607 00:39:36,653 --> 00:39:39,693 Speaker 2: and so only because you can't access contraception, et cetera. 608 00:39:40,493 --> 00:39:43,733 Speaker 2: So I don't think this will reduce the world's population. 609 00:39:44,053 --> 00:39:48,133 Speaker 2: I think it will make it much much poorer. But hold, 610 00:39:48,213 --> 00:39:51,773 Speaker 2: I mean there is a conspiracy. Of course, there's conspiracy 611 00:39:52,813 --> 00:39:57,493 Speaker 2: is some people getting together and making a plan and 612 00:39:57,493 --> 00:40:00,373 Speaker 2: not telling other people about it. That's what a conspiracy is. 613 00:40:01,613 --> 00:40:05,013 Speaker 2: And that's that's how you do business. If you're running 614 00:40:05,053 --> 00:40:08,613 Speaker 2: a company, if you're running Pisa or something, and you 615 00:40:08,693 --> 00:40:10,853 Speaker 2: in maternity, you come up with a few other companies 616 00:40:10,853 --> 00:40:14,533 Speaker 2: of a way of making selling a lot of stuff, 617 00:40:14,573 --> 00:40:17,853 Speaker 2: which is your job as CEO, and making a lot 618 00:40:17,893 --> 00:40:20,173 Speaker 2: of money out of it for your investors and shareholders. 619 00:40:20,653 --> 00:40:23,293 Speaker 2: You're not going to go and tell everyone, Okay, we're 620 00:40:23,293 --> 00:40:25,053 Speaker 2: going to do this because we want to make lots 621 00:40:25,093 --> 00:40:26,853 Speaker 2: of money. We want to make hundreds of billions of 622 00:40:26,853 --> 00:40:30,493 Speaker 2: dollars from selling a vacci You say we're saving the world. 623 00:40:30,573 --> 00:40:34,093 Speaker 2: So of course there's a conspiracy in that there is 624 00:40:34,453 --> 00:40:37,173 Speaker 2: people trying to make lots of money out of global 625 00:40:37,213 --> 00:40:41,293 Speaker 2: health and they're not telling everyone exactly what. They're not 626 00:40:41,333 --> 00:40:44,573 Speaker 2: putting it in those words. They're not telling everyone they're 627 00:40:44,573 --> 00:40:46,933 Speaker 2: there to make money. And for the shareholders, they're telling 628 00:40:46,973 --> 00:40:50,493 Speaker 2: everyone they're trying to save us. So but they are 629 00:40:50,533 --> 00:40:52,693 Speaker 2: trying to make money. That's a job. So it's a 630 00:40:52,733 --> 00:40:55,373 Speaker 2: conspiracy because they're running a business. That's say, you run 631 00:40:55,413 --> 00:40:59,253 Speaker 2: a business, you have plans that you don't fully divulge 632 00:40:59,333 --> 00:41:02,293 Speaker 2: to others, to the world. So I think you can 633 00:41:02,373 --> 00:41:08,533 Speaker 2: explain this as a huge sort of business case that 634 00:41:08,733 --> 00:41:14,693 Speaker 2: was completely devoid of morals and any breaks on conflict 635 00:41:14,733 --> 00:41:19,613 Speaker 2: of interest, et cetera, and was facilitated by these large 636 00:41:19,653 --> 00:41:23,493 Speaker 2: agencies that have become dependent on these same private entities. 637 00:41:24,253 --> 00:41:27,293 Speaker 2: So of course there are people who people among these 638 00:41:27,333 --> 00:41:30,333 Speaker 2: who want to have less people in the world, And 639 00:41:30,493 --> 00:41:32,533 Speaker 2: in a way I can sort of understand that. Wouldn't 640 00:41:32,533 --> 00:41:34,253 Speaker 2: it be nice to go to the beaches not crowded, 641 00:41:34,293 --> 00:41:36,293 Speaker 2: wouldn't be nice not to have traffic jams every time 642 00:41:36,293 --> 00:41:39,373 Speaker 2: you go to work. Great, you know, more green fields, 643 00:41:39,373 --> 00:41:42,013 Speaker 2: et cetera. So that's a nice thing. But it's also 644 00:41:42,133 --> 00:41:44,693 Speaker 2: nice to have humans. And here we are, we got 645 00:41:44,893 --> 00:41:49,893 Speaker 2: eight billion humans, and humans are great. So you know, 646 00:41:50,493 --> 00:41:52,333 Speaker 2: people can say to you they'd like to have less 647 00:41:52,333 --> 00:41:55,933 Speaker 2: people in the world, and that's not a bad thing 648 00:41:56,053 --> 00:41:58,813 Speaker 2: in itself to say, as long as they're not saying 649 00:41:59,013 --> 00:42:01,253 Speaker 2: and therefore we want to kill lots of other people 650 00:42:01,773 --> 00:42:04,733 Speaker 2: to get there. And I think if you wanted to 651 00:42:04,773 --> 00:42:07,853 Speaker 2: do that, you would have a better virus than SARS 652 00:42:07,893 --> 00:42:11,693 Speaker 2: kobe to and you would probably go further along the 653 00:42:11,773 --> 00:42:17,213 Speaker 2: path of toxic responses to it. So I don't think 654 00:42:17,253 --> 00:42:20,693 Speaker 2: that that was the primary driver at all. I think 655 00:42:20,733 --> 00:42:22,933 Speaker 2: it was more making a lot of money, and there 656 00:42:22,933 --> 00:42:25,253 Speaker 2: are some other things in the background. There is a 657 00:42:25,293 --> 00:42:29,093 Speaker 2: push for things like central bank digital currency, which is 658 00:42:29,133 --> 00:42:32,533 Speaker 2: not I mean, it's not a conspiracy there the central 659 00:42:32,613 --> 00:42:34,253 Speaker 2: banks and someone say they want this. A Bank of 660 00:42:34,293 --> 00:42:37,693 Speaker 2: Indudicial Settlements says it wants this CARST and has talked 661 00:42:37,733 --> 00:42:42,253 Speaker 2: about it their head. To do that, you need people 662 00:42:42,693 --> 00:42:47,093 Speaker 2: ideally to be poorer and to be more dependent on 663 00:42:47,293 --> 00:42:52,013 Speaker 2: government and to have you know, digital ideas and digital 664 00:42:52,453 --> 00:42:55,573 Speaker 2: transactions that you can then use. 665 00:42:56,053 --> 00:42:58,973 Speaker 3: To sort of control their lives. 666 00:42:59,173 --> 00:43:03,133 Speaker 2: Their lives and oh, you know, that's that's what they 667 00:43:03,173 --> 00:43:06,133 Speaker 2: say they want central bank digital currency for it will 668 00:43:06,173 --> 00:43:09,533 Speaker 2: allow you to control how much people travel, how what 669 00:43:09,613 --> 00:43:12,653 Speaker 2: they eat, where they go, who they meet. So I 670 00:43:12,653 --> 00:43:14,733 Speaker 2: think there are a lot of people who don't just 671 00:43:14,773 --> 00:43:18,773 Speaker 2: want money. They want this sort of fascist state globally. 672 00:43:20,133 --> 00:43:23,853 Speaker 2: And that's always been the case in human existence, is 673 00:43:24,373 --> 00:43:28,573 Speaker 2: why would it go away? And COVID was and this 674 00:43:28,613 --> 00:43:32,013 Speaker 2: whole pandemic agenda is a huge opportunity to do that 675 00:43:32,093 --> 00:43:36,053 Speaker 2: because it provides the fear that you need to make 676 00:43:36,173 --> 00:43:39,653 Speaker 2: people do things that they wouldn't normally do. So in 677 00:43:39,653 --> 00:43:42,373 Speaker 2: the nineteen eighties in Australia, they tried to bring in 678 00:43:43,453 --> 00:43:47,453 Speaker 2: a digital National Idea just National Idea card, and there 679 00:43:47,493 --> 00:43:50,413 Speaker 2: was a huge outcry and it's just killed the whole idea. 680 00:43:50,733 --> 00:43:55,453 Speaker 2: They're doing it now and no unblinks because they've managed 681 00:43:55,493 --> 00:43:58,373 Speaker 2: to get people's mindset to think that the government is 682 00:43:58,413 --> 00:44:03,413 Speaker 2: saving them from existential crises, whether it's it's pandemics, or 683 00:44:03,453 --> 00:44:08,813 Speaker 2: it's a climate crisis, or its terrorism whatever. And they 684 00:44:08,933 --> 00:44:11,693 Speaker 2: need to allow the government to know who where they 685 00:44:11,693 --> 00:44:13,733 Speaker 2: are and where they're spending their money and what they're 686 00:44:13,733 --> 00:44:15,893 Speaker 2: doing all the time so that they can be kept 687 00:44:15,933 --> 00:44:19,693 Speaker 2: safe from all these things. And I think that is 688 00:44:19,773 --> 00:44:24,013 Speaker 2: somewhat deliberate, or is quite deliberate, because people want to 689 00:44:24,053 --> 00:44:26,573 Speaker 2: do that in order to have control over others and 690 00:44:26,933 --> 00:44:31,813 Speaker 2: even further concentrate wealth, etc. And it's a sort of feudalism. 691 00:44:31,853 --> 00:44:35,613 Speaker 2: That's the normal way that human society works, unless you 692 00:44:35,733 --> 00:44:38,533 Speaker 2: constantly fight against it. Well, it can only for him. 693 00:44:38,573 --> 00:44:41,293 Speaker 2: This is what they talk about essentially with their Great Reset, 694 00:44:41,413 --> 00:44:45,373 Speaker 2: is essentially stakeholder capitalism, is essentially feudalism. 695 00:44:45,813 --> 00:44:50,253 Speaker 3: Well, we said we would revert to the American election 696 00:44:50,453 --> 00:44:53,653 Speaker 3: briefly at least, and that would appear to be the 697 00:44:53,733 --> 00:44:55,893 Speaker 3: right time to do it considering that you were just 698 00:44:55,973 --> 00:45:02,013 Speaker 3: talking of the CBDC, and let's throw into the mix 699 00:45:02,253 --> 00:45:04,693 Speaker 3: the fact that Trump has made it very clear that 700 00:45:04,773 --> 00:45:07,453 Speaker 3: he will ban it and will not allow it while 701 00:45:07,453 --> 00:45:10,813 Speaker 3: he is any position to stop it. What comment would 702 00:45:10,853 --> 00:45:15,413 Speaker 3: you make on that? I think it's great, Yeah, not 703 00:45:15,413 --> 00:45:17,133 Speaker 3: only any great, fantastic. 704 00:45:18,853 --> 00:45:23,493 Speaker 2: I mean it's it doesn't solve the problem completely. Obviously. 705 00:45:24,213 --> 00:45:27,413 Speaker 2: They essentially did what you want to do with CBDC. 706 00:45:27,613 --> 00:45:32,773 Speaker 2: They did that, for instance in Canada during the Truckees effort, 707 00:45:32,813 --> 00:45:35,133 Speaker 2: and they you know that, they people just had their 708 00:45:35,133 --> 00:45:37,733 Speaker 2: bank accounts closed. And so it turns out Millennia Trump 709 00:45:37,813 --> 00:45:41,573 Speaker 2: had a bank account closed in twenty yep, so did 710 00:45:41,693 --> 00:45:45,653 Speaker 2: Baron Trump. I mean, what on earth? So that they're 711 00:45:45,733 --> 00:45:49,773 Speaker 2: already trying to make it hard to live financially for people, 712 00:45:50,453 --> 00:45:55,213 Speaker 2: but we don't need CBDC. There's a great short video 713 00:45:55,293 --> 00:45:58,533 Speaker 2: out probably not on YouTube but on other channels. So 714 00:45:59,773 --> 00:46:06,253 Speaker 2: it's the Minneapolis Fed Federal Reserve chairman talking about this, 715 00:46:06,413 --> 00:46:12,253 Speaker 2: saying like, why on earth would Americans want this? We 716 00:46:12,413 --> 00:46:15,333 Speaker 2: manage perfectly fine with their finances. Now, why do you 717 00:46:15,413 --> 00:46:18,933 Speaker 2: want the government to be able to control everything you do? 718 00:46:19,133 --> 00:46:23,733 Speaker 2: It makes no sense from a public viewpoint is we don't. 719 00:46:23,773 --> 00:46:27,053 Speaker 2: It's not saving us from anything. It's just imposing more 720 00:46:27,533 --> 00:46:29,853 Speaker 2: more control over us. So why would anyone? 721 00:46:30,853 --> 00:46:36,053 Speaker 3: So who was that? You said, Indianapolis? It's a Minnieapolis 722 00:46:36,693 --> 00:46:40,293 Speaker 3: Reserve Bank. Reserve Bank. Yeah, so it's floating around on 723 00:46:40,333 --> 00:46:43,253 Speaker 3: the internet. It's in a few times. It's a good video. 724 00:46:43,813 --> 00:46:46,933 Speaker 2: He's just arguing, sensibly, saying, why would people you know, 725 00:46:47,053 --> 00:46:51,173 Speaker 2: you can't well population, you want this imposed on you? 726 00:46:51,253 --> 00:46:54,733 Speaker 3: Well, the answer, the answer is, of course you can 727 00:46:54,773 --> 00:46:57,213 Speaker 3: make something like that, and they and they do make 728 00:46:57,253 --> 00:47:00,333 Speaker 3: it appealing because you don't have to. I mean, the 729 00:47:00,373 --> 00:47:02,733 Speaker 3: next the next thing would be that you'll have a 730 00:47:02,813 --> 00:47:06,893 Speaker 3: chip in your hand. That'll happen one day. Yeah, it's 731 00:47:07,733 --> 00:47:10,093 Speaker 3: you don't need so you'd never lose your keys, you never, 732 00:47:10,173 --> 00:47:13,573 Speaker 3: you don't have to worry about anything and just carry 733 00:47:13,573 --> 00:47:14,733 Speaker 3: on and life's easy. 734 00:47:14,813 --> 00:47:17,573 Speaker 2: To go to the supermarket. You just wave your hand 735 00:47:17,693 --> 00:47:20,093 Speaker 2: over the reader and there you go. 736 00:47:20,453 --> 00:47:25,053 Speaker 3: Well, who wouldn't who wouldn't wanted them? And my response 737 00:47:25,253 --> 00:47:28,773 Speaker 3: immediately is look at the look at the change in 738 00:47:28,813 --> 00:47:33,613 Speaker 3: that election we've just well just mentioned of. I only 739 00:47:33,653 --> 00:47:39,013 Speaker 3: heard this morning that there was a swing of eleven 740 00:47:39,133 --> 00:47:43,213 Speaker 3: points for women under thirty to Trump. 741 00:47:43,973 --> 00:47:47,733 Speaker 2: Yeah, young people very strongly voted and now swung in 742 00:47:47,773 --> 00:47:50,373 Speaker 2: that direction, which is really interesting actually, and not I 743 00:47:50,373 --> 00:47:54,533 Speaker 2: think what the other side expected. So well, the only 744 00:47:55,453 --> 00:47:58,973 Speaker 2: shift in African Americans, a shift in Latino voters, etc. 745 00:47:59,373 --> 00:48:02,493 Speaker 2: Because you know, it's it's been an interesting time in 746 00:48:02,533 --> 00:48:05,653 Speaker 2: the US. I'm very surprised actually there. I come for 747 00:48:05,693 --> 00:48:10,333 Speaker 2: a number of reasons. But like many people, I thought 748 00:48:10,413 --> 00:48:13,813 Speaker 2: Trump was terrible the first time he was elected because 749 00:48:13,853 --> 00:48:16,693 Speaker 2: I listened to the media, and the media had nothing 750 00:48:16,733 --> 00:48:19,893 Speaker 2: good whatsoever to say about this person. If you spend 751 00:48:19,973 --> 00:48:23,853 Speaker 2: the time and you listen to one two three hour 752 00:48:24,773 --> 00:48:27,653 Speaker 2: long long form interviews with him, then you get a 753 00:48:27,773 --> 00:48:31,413 Speaker 2: very different picture of who this person is. And you know, 754 00:48:31,653 --> 00:48:34,173 Speaker 2: I don't know why the media is so against him, 755 00:48:34,693 --> 00:48:37,613 Speaker 2: but if there's someone like that, is that important you 756 00:48:37,653 --> 00:48:40,333 Speaker 2: should sit down and actually make up your own minds 757 00:48:40,733 --> 00:48:43,533 Speaker 2: and not have your mind made up by someone else. 758 00:48:44,373 --> 00:48:47,053 Speaker 3: Well, it's called it's called group thinkers, you know, and 759 00:48:48,053 --> 00:48:49,773 Speaker 3: it has quite a history now. 760 00:48:50,653 --> 00:48:54,053 Speaker 2: But it's worse than that. This was propaganda, isn't it. 761 00:48:54,053 --> 00:48:57,253 Speaker 2: It's I mean, we were told constantly this person was 762 00:48:58,333 --> 00:49:07,093 Speaker 2: far right, racists, misogynists, whatever. But if you any anti abortion, 763 00:49:07,253 --> 00:49:10,413 Speaker 2: anti this, and anti that, and if you listen to him, 764 00:49:10,533 --> 00:49:14,973 Speaker 2: he actually got pretty irrational approaches to these issues, but 765 00:49:15,173 --> 00:49:19,173 Speaker 2: they almost never get reported in the media. And he 766 00:49:19,533 --> 00:49:21,893 Speaker 2: is someone who talks off the cuff a lot, which 767 00:49:22,373 --> 00:49:26,973 Speaker 2: is dangerous for a politician, but is also somewhat refreshing. 768 00:49:27,333 --> 00:49:29,493 Speaker 2: We're so used to people just having Telly prompters and 769 00:49:29,493 --> 00:49:32,213 Speaker 2: so on, or saying what their focus group told him 770 00:49:32,253 --> 00:49:36,413 Speaker 2: to say, so sometimes he says things in a way 771 00:49:36,453 --> 00:49:38,053 Speaker 2: that you sort of think, oh, no, why do you 772 00:49:38,093 --> 00:49:40,533 Speaker 2: say that way, because people take it the wrong way. 773 00:49:40,573 --> 00:49:44,573 Speaker 2: But if you put it in the context of a 774 00:49:44,573 --> 00:49:47,853 Speaker 2: half hour hour long interview, then it starts to make sense. 775 00:49:47,933 --> 00:49:51,733 Speaker 2: And I think a lot of people saw this because people, 776 00:49:52,133 --> 00:49:55,333 Speaker 2: and probably much more than news in but the US 777 00:49:55,373 --> 00:50:00,613 Speaker 2: populace has turned massively away from mainstream media, and so 778 00:50:00,733 --> 00:50:02,733 Speaker 2: that people listen to podcasts. I will listen to the 779 00:50:02,733 --> 00:50:06,893 Speaker 2: podcast with Joe Rogan or with Tucker Carlson or something, 780 00:50:06,933 --> 00:50:10,413 Speaker 2: and they'll hear a Trump or a put In or 781 00:50:10,813 --> 00:50:13,853 Speaker 2: Kamala Harris. If you'll do it, or et cetera, talk 782 00:50:14,253 --> 00:50:18,613 Speaker 2: for a long time, and you can start to get 783 00:50:18,653 --> 00:50:21,613 Speaker 2: an idea of what they're really thinking, whereas you can't 784 00:50:21,653 --> 00:50:26,253 Speaker 2: do that by a journalist who is and there's about 785 00:50:26,373 --> 00:50:30,173 Speaker 2: ninety seven percent of US journalists are on one side 786 00:50:30,213 --> 00:50:32,253 Speaker 2: of politics and three percent on the other. When they 787 00:50:32,453 --> 00:50:36,333 Speaker 2: pull them and journalists openly say now that their job 788 00:50:36,413 --> 00:50:41,533 Speaker 2: is advocacy, not reporting the news, so that they see 789 00:50:41,573 --> 00:50:44,893 Speaker 2: their job as trying to turn the country into what 790 00:50:44,933 --> 00:50:48,573 Speaker 2: they consider as a better place, so they propagandas so, 791 00:50:48,933 --> 00:50:51,133 Speaker 2: most of what we get now on mainstream media in 792 00:50:51,173 --> 00:50:54,893 Speaker 2: the US is propaganda and not news. And I think 793 00:50:54,973 --> 00:50:58,253 Speaker 2: people have which is a refreshing part of this. People 794 00:50:58,293 --> 00:51:01,213 Speaker 2: have realized that on a very large scale. 795 00:51:01,373 --> 00:51:05,333 Speaker 3: They have in the States obviously, but not so much 796 00:51:05,693 --> 00:51:11,493 Speaker 3: elsewhere We've still got the same. Yeah, simple journalists I'm 797 00:51:11,493 --> 00:51:15,133 Speaker 3: trying to be as kind as I can who don't 798 00:51:15,213 --> 00:51:18,213 Speaker 3: understand how it could have happened and continue to write 799 00:51:18,213 --> 00:51:22,173 Speaker 3: the crap that they have written all along. I am 800 00:51:22,213 --> 00:51:23,853 Speaker 3: thinking of one or two in particular. 801 00:51:24,813 --> 00:51:27,973 Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean it happened because this was a person 802 00:51:28,053 --> 00:51:32,853 Speaker 2: who can actually articulate policy at length. You know, take 803 00:51:32,933 --> 00:51:36,933 Speaker 2: Charlotteviell or something he did not say. Just good people, 804 00:51:37,013 --> 00:51:39,213 Speaker 2: both sides at Charlotteviell. You know, this is something I 805 00:51:39,213 --> 00:51:41,773 Speaker 2: only found two or three years later. Yeah, I mean 806 00:51:41,813 --> 00:51:46,013 Speaker 2: he said he specifically excluded white supremacists from that, and 807 00:51:46,733 --> 00:51:50,333 Speaker 2: so it's the opposite of how it was reported. People 808 00:51:50,333 --> 00:51:52,573 Speaker 2: have seen so much of that here that I think 809 00:51:52,653 --> 00:51:56,293 Speaker 2: the media has just lost credibility. But you know, you 810 00:51:56,413 --> 00:51:59,573 Speaker 2: had one side that spent only a third of the money, 811 00:51:59,893 --> 00:52:05,093 Speaker 2: but who had very long speeches and very long interviews 812 00:52:05,893 --> 00:52:12,213 Speaker 2: and articulated a wide policy alternatives, they said what they're 813 00:52:12,213 --> 00:52:15,493 Speaker 2: planning to do. You had another side. If there are 814 00:52:15,533 --> 00:52:18,973 Speaker 2: clear policies I missing, and I think people are struggling 815 00:52:19,013 --> 00:52:21,933 Speaker 2: to the people struggle to figure out what the actual 816 00:52:21,973 --> 00:52:26,253 Speaker 2: policy is apart from trying to keep Trump out. But 817 00:52:26,333 --> 00:52:27,973 Speaker 2: that's not a policy that you're going to went on. 818 00:52:28,053 --> 00:52:34,373 Speaker 2: So yeah, they didn't articulate any policy, and they teleproms 819 00:52:34,373 --> 00:52:39,613 Speaker 2: are broke down so so and that they clearly did 820 00:52:39,653 --> 00:52:41,853 Speaker 2: not tell the truth to the American public about the 821 00:52:41,853 --> 00:52:46,773 Speaker 2: state of the previous president and et cetera. So you know, 822 00:52:47,213 --> 00:52:50,733 Speaker 2: I can't see how journalists struggle with that. The left 823 00:52:50,733 --> 00:52:52,413 Speaker 2: of politicies and what the left used to be. But 824 00:52:52,453 --> 00:52:54,773 Speaker 2: if if you're a sort of pro Democrat or pro 825 00:52:54,813 --> 00:52:57,693 Speaker 2: republic whatever, it's hard to argue I think with what 826 00:52:57,733 --> 00:53:00,973 Speaker 2: I just said, because that's blatantly in front of everyone. 827 00:53:01,813 --> 00:53:05,693 Speaker 3: Now, before you tell me that you've had enough, I've 828 00:53:05,693 --> 00:53:07,413 Speaker 3: got a couple of other things, so we should we 829 00:53:07,413 --> 00:53:12,373 Speaker 3: should move on at least briefly two, two or three 830 00:53:12,533 --> 00:53:17,173 Speaker 3: other matters, if I may, I want to mention Jay Baticharia, 831 00:53:17,613 --> 00:53:20,253 Speaker 3: one of the three medical people who came up with the. 832 00:53:22,013 --> 00:53:22,733 Speaker 2: Great Barrington. 833 00:53:23,013 --> 00:53:27,173 Speaker 3: Yes, and at first of all, I didn't understand what 834 00:53:27,213 --> 00:53:29,493 Speaker 3: on earth the Great Barrington thing was. And then once 835 00:53:29,573 --> 00:53:31,013 Speaker 3: I got a grasp, of course I. 836 00:53:31,373 --> 00:53:35,573 Speaker 2: Knew he was just orthodox public health. Well there's a 837 00:53:35,693 --> 00:53:38,333 Speaker 2: mother Kodolf and symmetric upture, and they didn't come up 838 00:53:38,333 --> 00:53:41,293 Speaker 2: with anything new, which is why it's so important that 839 00:53:41,373 --> 00:53:45,253 Speaker 2: they just articulated clearly orthodox public health exactly. 840 00:53:45,293 --> 00:53:47,853 Speaker 3: Now, I had cold Off on the podcast fairly early 841 00:53:47,973 --> 00:53:50,973 Speaker 3: in the piece, and wish i'd had Battacharia, but I 842 00:53:51,053 --> 00:53:53,973 Speaker 3: never tried. But I see that he was just awarded 843 00:53:54,013 --> 00:53:57,693 Speaker 3: a major international scientific prize. You see that. 844 00:53:58,093 --> 00:53:59,653 Speaker 2: Yeah, I can't remember what it was, but I did. 845 00:53:59,933 --> 00:54:03,333 Speaker 2: I know Jay, he's a very nice person. Yes, these 846 00:54:03,373 --> 00:54:07,453 Speaker 2: people should be getting prizes because they stood up at 847 00:54:07,773 --> 00:54:15,413 Speaker 2: considerable cost. Yeah, and they were just insisting on telling 848 00:54:15,453 --> 00:54:19,173 Speaker 2: the truth. They were talking orthodox public health. Essently, they 849 00:54:19,173 --> 00:54:22,813 Speaker 2: were talking about what we knew is true for a 850 00:54:22,853 --> 00:54:24,733 Speaker 2: lot of it's just common sense. You don't even have 851 00:54:24,773 --> 00:54:27,253 Speaker 2: to be a public health physician to know that if 852 00:54:27,293 --> 00:54:31,373 Speaker 2: you massively impoverish people and close down economy, then that's 853 00:54:31,413 --> 00:54:34,693 Speaker 2: going to make health generally worse in the future. I 854 00:54:34,693 --> 00:54:39,653 Speaker 2: mean that's pretty obvious. So and that is why that's 855 00:54:39,653 --> 00:54:41,653 Speaker 2: what the Great Barons in Declace is about, is just 856 00:54:41,813 --> 00:54:46,053 Speaker 2: you will cause more harm if you close down the 857 00:54:46,093 --> 00:54:49,613 Speaker 2: health system, closed down the economy for something like this, 858 00:54:49,773 --> 00:54:52,173 Speaker 2: rather than just concentrating on the people who are actually 859 00:54:52,173 --> 00:54:54,253 Speaker 2: at risk and addressing their needs. 860 00:54:54,893 --> 00:55:00,133 Speaker 3: The Australian COVID Inquiry report now the risk of treading 861 00:55:00,173 --> 00:55:03,893 Speaker 3: on Ramesh the Cursed Toes. He's declared it not fit 862 00:55:04,013 --> 00:55:07,653 Speaker 3: for purpose. Have you read it. I haven't read it yet. 863 00:55:07,773 --> 00:55:09,053 Speaker 3: No report on it. 864 00:55:09,653 --> 00:55:12,933 Speaker 2: I think it's it's much like the others. It says 865 00:55:13,893 --> 00:55:17,493 Speaker 2: should have done more stuff, more quickly, and it doesn't 866 00:55:17,533 --> 00:55:21,453 Speaker 2: go into the the harms I've seen. 867 00:55:21,533 --> 00:55:24,573 Speaker 3: Short summary, We've we've got we've got something. I think 868 00:55:24,573 --> 00:55:27,773 Speaker 3: we've still got something underway here. It's it's hard to 869 00:55:27,773 --> 00:55:30,693 Speaker 3: tell sometimes, but it's it's going to fall into the 870 00:55:30,693 --> 00:55:33,893 Speaker 3: same category, and there'll be a follow up. I think, 871 00:55:34,253 --> 00:55:38,773 Speaker 3: I trust that might might might be might Get honest, 872 00:55:39,733 --> 00:55:43,093 Speaker 3: do you think that one day the people who are 873 00:55:43,213 --> 00:55:49,053 Speaker 3: and I'm thinking particularly of ex prime ministers and the 874 00:55:49,133 --> 00:55:55,733 Speaker 3: and they're lot, will be recognized appropriately for what they did. 875 00:55:56,213 --> 00:55:59,493 Speaker 2: I think they will eventually, because when people look back 876 00:55:59,533 --> 00:56:02,013 Speaker 2: and do their studies on this in thirty or forty 877 00:56:02,053 --> 00:56:05,373 Speaker 2: years time, Yeah, that there there's this big dip in 878 00:56:05,373 --> 00:56:08,653 Speaker 2: the economy, there's an increase in debt that was see 879 00:56:08,653 --> 00:56:12,173 Speaker 2: that as we know now. I mean all of course 880 00:56:12,213 --> 00:56:15,893 Speaker 2: what tality wasn't any better, is generally worse in countries 881 00:56:15,933 --> 00:56:19,253 Speaker 2: that had strict measures compared to those that didn't. And 882 00:56:19,773 --> 00:56:23,653 Speaker 2: there is this huge impact on basic human rights and 883 00:56:23,693 --> 00:56:25,893 Speaker 2: so on that the world been fighting for for so 884 00:56:25,973 --> 00:56:28,933 Speaker 2: long and then just went backwards so many steps. So 885 00:56:29,413 --> 00:56:32,493 Speaker 2: I think in the future it'll be recognized as a 886 00:56:32,573 --> 00:56:36,933 Speaker 2: huge mistake. I doubt that it will directly impact any 887 00:56:36,933 --> 00:56:39,813 Speaker 2: of these people. I don't think anyone political is going 888 00:56:39,893 --> 00:56:44,293 Speaker 2: to go to jail or something for this, and I'm 889 00:56:44,333 --> 00:56:47,413 Speaker 2: not sure that. I mean, some of them are actually extreme, 890 00:56:47,453 --> 00:56:51,173 Speaker 2: and the one you're talking about is recognized as fairly 891 00:56:51,213 --> 00:56:55,733 Speaker 2: extreme globally. But politicians were in a really difficult situation 892 00:56:55,933 --> 00:56:58,093 Speaker 2: with this, and I think we have to recognize this 893 00:56:58,173 --> 00:57:01,093 Speaker 2: put yourself in their shoes. The whole media was against it, 894 00:57:01,133 --> 00:57:04,733 Speaker 2: and the media was on the side of big farm totally, 895 00:57:04,813 --> 00:57:07,173 Speaker 2: along with hundreds of billions of dollars of effort. And 896 00:57:07,773 --> 00:57:11,213 Speaker 2: if those Jordan said, as Prince of Sweden did they 897 00:57:11,213 --> 00:57:14,133 Speaker 2: weren't going to do this. Every death is pinned on them, 898 00:57:14,373 --> 00:57:18,093 Speaker 2: so it was likely political suicide. Having said that, I 899 00:57:18,133 --> 00:57:20,173 Speaker 2: didn't see any leaders sit down in front of the 900 00:57:20,333 --> 00:57:23,733 Speaker 2: nation for a couple of hours and just talk through 901 00:57:24,613 --> 00:57:29,053 Speaker 2: like these are the facts. This is the age people dying, 902 00:57:29,053 --> 00:57:32,933 Speaker 2: and this is the comorbidities. If we close down, we're 903 00:57:32,933 --> 00:57:34,893 Speaker 2: not going to help all these other people, and we're 904 00:57:34,933 --> 00:57:36,853 Speaker 2: going to do this huge economic harm and that's going 905 00:57:36,893 --> 00:57:40,813 Speaker 2: to mean longer waiting lists and less money for cancer treatment, 906 00:57:40,933 --> 00:57:45,013 Speaker 2: less money for heart disease, less money for kids' illnesses, etc. 907 00:57:45,253 --> 00:57:48,013 Speaker 2: In the future. So what are you doing. If we 908 00:57:48,053 --> 00:57:51,573 Speaker 2: had that conversation and there was a politician anywhere brave 909 00:57:51,653 --> 00:57:53,813 Speaker 2: enough to do that, I suspect that a lot of 910 00:57:53,813 --> 00:57:58,213 Speaker 2: populations would have sided with them. But that aside. You know, 911 00:57:58,453 --> 00:58:03,613 Speaker 2: I think they were just trying to avoid being classed 912 00:58:03,693 --> 00:58:06,293 Speaker 2: in the media and by a lot of the population 913 00:58:06,373 --> 00:58:10,813 Speaker 2: who were just brainwashed as murderers. I mean, maybe I'm 914 00:58:10,853 --> 00:58:13,973 Speaker 2: being over nice. I don't know, but I think that 915 00:58:14,133 --> 00:58:16,773 Speaker 2: sort of explains why so many went along with it 916 00:58:16,813 --> 00:58:18,653 Speaker 2: and very few politicians stood up. 917 00:58:19,133 --> 00:58:22,493 Speaker 3: I think it reflects on the politicians or the standard 918 00:58:22,493 --> 00:58:25,253 Speaker 3: of politicians that we now accept in the main. 919 00:58:25,773 --> 00:58:30,173 Speaker 2: It certainly does that. Yeah, and just I know Australian 920 00:58:30,253 --> 00:58:34,453 Speaker 2: politicians were speakings in similar that, including that, you know 921 00:58:34,693 --> 00:58:39,053 Speaker 2: your recent Prime minister. Their career politicians they haven't run 922 00:58:39,093 --> 00:58:44,733 Speaker 2: a business, they haven't run a farm, they haven't worked 923 00:58:44,733 --> 00:58:46,733 Speaker 2: in a law practice for thirty years before they go 924 00:58:46,773 --> 00:58:53,493 Speaker 2: into politics or medicine whatever. So they go through, they 925 00:58:53,533 --> 00:58:56,133 Speaker 2: come out of high school, they go into university, they 926 00:58:56,213 --> 00:59:00,413 Speaker 2: joined student politics, they joined whatever party in that politics 927 00:59:00,453 --> 00:59:03,573 Speaker 2: in the university, and that's their career for life is 928 00:59:03,653 --> 00:59:08,093 Speaker 2: just being a politician. And really that's the last person 929 00:59:08,133 --> 00:59:11,333 Speaker 2: who you would want to run your country. You know, 930 00:59:11,453 --> 00:59:14,693 Speaker 2: you've just you've no idea. You've just reminded me of something. 931 00:59:15,693 --> 00:59:18,613 Speaker 2: There was there was an article, there was a commentary 932 00:59:18,613 --> 00:59:21,573 Speaker 2: piece written by a university professor here with regard to 933 00:59:21,653 --> 00:59:29,373 Speaker 2: Jacinda going and giving advice to Karmala. Right, No, this 934 00:59:29,253 --> 00:59:32,893 Speaker 2: is this is true, not fiction, not fiction. Apparently it's true. 935 00:59:32,893 --> 00:59:34,493 Speaker 2: There's a picture of the two of them together, and 936 00:59:34,693 --> 00:59:40,773 Speaker 2: et cetera. It's just occurred to me. We know that you, 937 00:59:40,893 --> 00:59:45,133 Speaker 2: Sinda worked in a fish and chip shop. Apparently Carmela 938 00:59:45,213 --> 00:59:47,813 Speaker 2: didn't work in McDonald's or no one can, no one 939 00:59:48,013 --> 00:59:51,253 Speaker 2: can prove it. They're stroking to find a record. 940 00:59:51,573 --> 00:59:55,213 Speaker 3: Do you do you think maybe that gave her a 941 00:59:55,293 --> 00:59:58,493 Speaker 3: hint by saying, look, it stood be in great stead 942 00:59:59,533 --> 01:00:02,733 Speaker 3: having worked in a fish shop. Maybe you worked in 943 01:00:02,853 --> 01:00:04,453 Speaker 3: McDonald's or something along the way. 944 01:00:04,853 --> 01:00:07,213 Speaker 2: I suspect they're are told to try to identify, at 945 01:00:07,293 --> 01:00:11,093 Speaker 2: least with ordinary people. A lot of interesting you know, 946 01:00:11,333 --> 01:00:15,653 Speaker 2: it's interesting looking at the all the celebrities socided with. 947 01:00:16,133 --> 01:00:17,973 Speaker 3: Yeah, mostly for megabugs. 948 01:00:18,973 --> 01:00:21,773 Speaker 2: Yeah, they were paid lots and lots of money, Yes, exactly, 949 01:00:21,973 --> 01:00:25,293 Speaker 2: so so that they're not they're not people who apparently 950 01:00:25,573 --> 01:00:29,253 Speaker 2: were there because of this is what they really believed in, 951 01:00:29,493 --> 01:00:32,613 Speaker 2: or if they did, there was a very fortuitous that 952 01:00:32,613 --> 01:00:35,413 Speaker 2: they're getting paid to stand by their belief. Again, I 953 01:00:35,453 --> 01:00:40,613 Speaker 2: think that people saw this people recognize that they didn't 954 01:00:40,613 --> 01:00:42,613 Speaker 2: know I think at that time how much people are 955 01:00:42,613 --> 01:00:46,053 Speaker 2: being paid. But they can see that people have not 956 01:00:46,253 --> 01:00:50,453 Speaker 2: really you know, it comes back to actually articulating policies 957 01:00:50,493 --> 01:00:53,693 Speaker 2: and explaining why you're there versus just being there and 958 01:00:53,773 --> 01:00:56,773 Speaker 2: jumping up and down and saying never Trump one side 959 01:00:56,853 --> 01:01:01,093 Speaker 2: ran this very shallow campaign because we think how journalists 960 01:01:01,133 --> 01:01:05,333 Speaker 2: can't recognize that is really interesting because it means that 961 01:01:05,373 --> 01:01:08,933 Speaker 2: they are really they've lost the ability to think rationally 962 01:01:09,013 --> 01:01:09,933 Speaker 2: to a large extent. 963 01:01:10,293 --> 01:01:15,413 Speaker 3: Indeed, look to to put paid to this podcast. Let 964 01:01:15,453 --> 01:01:19,293 Speaker 3: me quote you from the article to arrest the degradation 965 01:01:19,493 --> 01:01:22,373 Speaker 3: of health, human rights and sovereignty, we need an exit 966 01:01:22,493 --> 01:01:27,133 Speaker 3: strategy from unethical public health. This will require an exit 967 01:01:27,173 --> 01:01:31,973 Speaker 3: strategy from approaches mired in conflict of interest and an 968 01:01:32,013 --> 01:01:35,453 Speaker 3: emphasis on evidence rather than corporate profit. And for the 969 01:01:35,493 --> 01:01:38,773 Speaker 3: sake of both donor country taxpayers and the recipients of 970 01:01:38,813 --> 01:01:43,053 Speaker 3: their support, we need an exit strategy from external dependency 971 01:01:43,173 --> 01:01:47,853 Speaker 3: in order to achieve health independence. This is what sustainability 972 01:01:47,853 --> 01:01:51,973 Speaker 3: and equity means, words of which global health profiteers are 973 01:01:51,973 --> 01:01:55,893 Speaker 3: so fond. These changes need to be sect a wide, 974 01:01:56,333 --> 01:01:59,893 Speaker 3: not just the who so what you're saying is that 975 01:01:59,933 --> 01:02:03,853 Speaker 3: the who certainly needs to be changed dramatically, but so 976 01:02:03,973 --> 01:02:06,093 Speaker 3: does the whole sector. 977 01:02:07,573 --> 01:02:10,853 Speaker 2: Is that possible. It's possible. Comes back to what we're 978 01:02:10,853 --> 01:02:14,813 Speaker 2: saying near the start of the discussion that the global 979 01:02:14,853 --> 01:02:19,613 Speaker 2: health industry is just growing and growing more rapidly than us, 980 01:02:19,653 --> 01:02:23,693 Speaker 2: probably than it has before, and it should be going 981 01:02:23,693 --> 01:02:28,053 Speaker 2: in the other direction. We should be building capacity in 982 01:02:28,173 --> 01:02:33,733 Speaker 2: countries that struggle technically so they don't need external help anymore. 983 01:02:34,933 --> 01:02:37,853 Speaker 2: And that is the supposedly the whole point of foreign aid. 984 01:02:37,933 --> 01:02:41,413 Speaker 2: And this is the standard left or right wing, but 985 01:02:41,533 --> 01:02:46,773 Speaker 2: certainly left wing thinking around public health two decades ago. 986 01:02:47,333 --> 01:02:51,413 Speaker 2: You don't want a colonialist situation where you have people 987 01:02:51,453 --> 01:02:54,733 Speaker 2: from rich countries having all the expertise and going and 988 01:02:54,773 --> 01:02:58,333 Speaker 2: telling people in poor countries what to do. You want 989 01:02:58,893 --> 01:03:04,133 Speaker 2: to build our world based much more equally, where all 990 01:03:04,213 --> 01:03:10,013 Speaker 2: countries have adequate capacity and can manage their own health 991 01:03:10,133 --> 01:03:12,533 Speaker 2: in the way that they see fit. And that is 992 01:03:12,813 --> 01:03:16,813 Speaker 2: what we are supposed to be building in international public health, 993 01:03:16,973 --> 01:03:21,453 Speaker 2: or we were. Is the opposite of having very strong 994 01:03:21,613 --> 01:03:27,973 Speaker 2: central institutions that have the ability to dictate policy about 995 01:03:28,333 --> 01:03:33,453 Speaker 2: whether it's vaccination or lockdowns or whatever. And it's the 996 01:03:33,533 --> 01:03:37,533 Speaker 2: opposite of growing these central institutions, they should be getting 997 01:03:37,533 --> 01:03:41,133 Speaker 2: smaller and smaller as countries get on their own feet 998 01:03:41,173 --> 01:03:44,453 Speaker 2: and do things themselves. And I don't think people can 999 01:03:44,493 --> 01:03:48,733 Speaker 2: really argue with that from any point of view, except 1000 01:03:48,733 --> 01:03:51,533 Speaker 2: if you really are on the train that believes that 1001 01:03:52,413 --> 01:03:56,733 Speaker 2: the world is facically increasing existential threats and we're all 1002 01:03:56,773 --> 01:03:59,453 Speaker 2: going to die if we don't all give up our 1003 01:03:59,533 --> 01:04:03,213 Speaker 2: rights to some central bureaucuct to save us. And if 1004 01:04:03,213 --> 01:04:06,413 Speaker 2: you're on that train still, then it is properly hard 1005 01:04:06,453 --> 01:04:10,493 Speaker 2: to get you off it. There's no rational basis for 1006 01:04:10,573 --> 01:04:16,533 Speaker 2: believing that we are generally living longer and pandemics, outbreaks, 1007 01:04:16,813 --> 01:04:22,253 Speaker 2: infectious cities outbreaks are getting less deadly overall and are 1008 01:04:22,293 --> 01:04:24,773 Speaker 2: not getting more frequent. We're getting better at detecting them, 1009 01:04:24,893 --> 01:04:29,693 Speaker 2: but they're not killing more people. So it's illogical to 1010 01:04:29,813 --> 01:04:33,933 Speaker 2: believe that. It doesn't fit historically, it doesn't fit epidemiologically. 1011 01:04:34,413 --> 01:04:37,573 Speaker 2: If people custominds back to twenty nineteen, it doesn't fit 1012 01:04:37,613 --> 01:04:41,093 Speaker 2: properly with their experience at all. So people need to 1013 01:04:41,133 --> 01:04:45,333 Speaker 2: sort of undo the propaganda a bit and go back 1014 01:04:45,333 --> 01:04:48,373 Speaker 2: to that mountain to think on their own and think 1015 01:04:48,413 --> 01:04:50,933 Speaker 2: through what is actually going on and that they will 1016 01:04:50,973 --> 01:04:54,773 Speaker 2: realize that there is no good reason to keep growing 1017 01:04:54,853 --> 01:05:00,413 Speaker 2: these bureaucracies. That poverty was going down before COVID, etc. 1018 01:05:00,733 --> 01:05:04,813 Speaker 2: Countries were doing better, the most African countries had rapidly 1019 01:05:04,813 --> 01:05:09,053 Speaker 2: increasing GDPs or that was reversed during COVID. The world 1020 01:05:09,133 --> 01:05:12,373 Speaker 2: was getting much better. We've had this huge step backwards. 1021 01:05:12,453 --> 01:05:16,133 Speaker 2: But you could argue that is because these institutions need 1022 01:05:16,213 --> 01:05:19,373 Speaker 2: for surviving growth is such that they are now really 1023 01:05:19,493 --> 01:05:22,973 Speaker 2: poisoning the world and poisoning the countries that they were 1024 01:05:23,333 --> 01:05:24,733 Speaker 2: supposedly supporting. 1025 01:05:25,453 --> 01:05:28,173 Speaker 3: I read this morning, it was sent to me from 1026 01:05:28,213 --> 01:05:32,853 Speaker 3: London an article from the Times on the top four 1027 01:05:32,933 --> 01:05:38,493 Speaker 3: I think it was airlines with the luxury section sector, 1028 01:05:39,813 --> 01:05:48,373 Speaker 3: and Emirates and Singapore Airlines and whatever else. And they've 1029 01:05:48,413 --> 01:05:51,493 Speaker 3: all refitted or in the process of refitting, and the 1030 01:05:51,613 --> 01:05:56,693 Speaker 3: luxury level has gone up rapidly in first class, business 1031 01:05:56,693 --> 01:06:01,973 Speaker 3: class and in economy plus. And I just thought earlier 1032 01:06:01,973 --> 01:06:04,933 Speaker 3: on when you were talking about the travel business class 1033 01:06:04,973 --> 01:06:09,973 Speaker 3: travel for these people who who fly around between Nairobi 1034 01:06:10,093 --> 01:06:13,573 Speaker 3: and Geneva and what have you, that this was even 1035 01:06:13,613 --> 01:06:16,893 Speaker 3: more incentive for them to maintain their positions and grow 1036 01:06:16,973 --> 01:06:17,533 Speaker 3: the company. 1037 01:06:17,973 --> 01:06:20,933 Speaker 2: Oh yeah, and it's people think the foreign age is 1038 01:06:21,013 --> 01:06:25,053 Speaker 2: going to help you desperate people in distant villages. A 1039 01:06:25,093 --> 01:06:28,613 Speaker 2: lot of it is going to support these people, and 1040 01:06:29,133 --> 01:06:31,933 Speaker 2: it's extremely difficult when you're in that situation which I've 1041 01:06:31,933 --> 01:06:36,013 Speaker 2: been in, to get out of it because it is 1042 01:06:36,053 --> 01:06:38,733 Speaker 2: such a nice and interesting life, you know, people dream 1043 01:06:38,813 --> 01:06:42,133 Speaker 2: about this. So yeah, there's all sorts of reasons that 1044 01:06:42,173 --> 01:06:46,253 Speaker 2: people in these organizations think of to maintain that situation. 1045 01:06:48,493 --> 01:06:53,893 Speaker 3: David, been a pleasure. Thank you, always grateful and I 1046 01:06:53,933 --> 01:06:56,853 Speaker 3: hope that we I hope we see you again soon. 1047 01:06:57,253 --> 01:06:59,253 Speaker 2: Yeah, I hope. So thanks late, and I have a 1048 01:06:59,253 --> 01:07:00,813 Speaker 2: good Christmas early soon. 1049 01:07:00,893 --> 01:07:04,813 Speaker 3: Oh listen, I forgot, I'm sorry. Merry Christmas, Happy New Year, 1050 01:07:05,173 --> 01:07:25,573 Speaker 3: and stay well. Thank you, thank you. Now I'm doing 1051 01:07:25,573 --> 01:07:29,013 Speaker 3: it a little differently this year. At the end of 1052 01:07:29,053 --> 01:07:32,573 Speaker 3: the replay, I usually have a few words to say, 1053 01:07:32,813 --> 01:07:35,173 Speaker 3: and every year I have to struggle to think up 1054 01:07:35,213 --> 01:07:38,613 Speaker 3: what the appropriate thing is to put in this particular plot. 1055 01:07:39,453 --> 01:07:42,253 Speaker 3: So I've decided to give myself a break and do 1056 01:07:42,373 --> 01:07:44,653 Speaker 3: one that covers all of them. So if you've heard 1057 01:07:44,693 --> 01:07:48,573 Speaker 3: this before, you can turn it off because you've heard it, 1058 01:07:48,973 --> 01:07:50,613 Speaker 3: because it's going to be the same one for each 1059 01:07:50,693 --> 01:07:54,573 Speaker 3: of the seven replays. Now, if this is the first one, 1060 01:07:54,893 --> 01:07:58,653 Speaker 3: then I trust that you're having a wonderful holiday. If 1061 01:07:58,693 --> 01:08:01,573 Speaker 3: you're not on holiday yet, your time will come. Rest assured. 1062 01:08:02,373 --> 01:08:07,173 Speaker 3: I have enjoyed doing these because re listening to them myself, 1063 01:08:07,533 --> 01:08:09,533 Speaker 3: I get more out of them and I see things, 1064 01:08:09,693 --> 01:08:12,613 Speaker 3: or I should say, I hear things that I might 1065 01:08:12,653 --> 01:08:14,653 Speaker 3: have got slightly wrong or I could have done better, 1066 01:08:14,893 --> 01:08:18,373 Speaker 3: So it's a learning curve as well. Anyway, we will 1067 01:08:18,413 --> 01:08:22,453 Speaker 3: be back for the next one a week from this 1068 01:08:22,493 --> 01:08:26,253 Speaker 3: particular release, unless, of course it's the last one, which 1069 01:08:26,293 --> 01:08:29,573 Speaker 3: is on the twenty ninth of January, and that'll be 1070 01:08:29,613 --> 01:08:33,333 Speaker 3: the end of this replay series. Add on February five, 1071 01:08:33,693 --> 01:08:37,453 Speaker 3: we shall return with fresh content in the meantime. At 1072 01:08:37,493 --> 01:08:39,933 Speaker 3: any stage us drop us on notes if you've got 1073 01:08:39,933 --> 01:08:42,293 Speaker 3: comment that you'd like to make later at news talks 1074 01:08:42,293 --> 01:08:45,213 Speaker 3: AB dot co dot enzend and Caroline at newstalksb dot 1075 01:08:45,253 --> 01:08:49,613 Speaker 3: co dot nz and we shall talk soon. 1076 01:08:57,533 --> 01:09:01,453 Speaker 1: Thank you for more from News Talks AB. Listen live 1077 01:09:01,653 --> 01:09:04,373 Speaker 1: on air or online, and keep our shows with you 1078 01:09:04,453 --> 01:09:07,453 Speaker 1: wherever you go with our podcasts on iHeartRadio