1 00:00:00,120 --> 00:00:02,360 Speaker 1: And you know on the whole we've got Shane Curry, 2 00:00:02,759 --> 00:00:06,360 Speaker 1: media insider and media man at large, and also Nick 3 00:00:06,440 --> 00:00:09,720 Speaker 1: leg Gets, the CEO of Infrastructure New Zealand, and hello 4 00:00:10,039 --> 00:00:12,520 Speaker 1: to you both are Shane Evening Andrew. 5 00:00:12,200 --> 00:00:14,360 Speaker 2: Hello, Nick, Hello Andrew. 6 00:00:14,880 --> 00:00:17,479 Speaker 1: Very good Shae. As a media man, you must know 7 00:00:17,560 --> 00:00:19,599 Speaker 1: that this case has got everything, hasn't it. 8 00:00:19,600 --> 00:00:22,480 Speaker 3: It sure does, And there's been a lot of discussion 9 00:00:22,520 --> 00:00:26,040 Speaker 3: beforehand just around the media rules. Obviously it's a very 10 00:00:26,040 --> 00:00:28,600 Speaker 3: delicate case and a lot of respects. But I think 11 00:00:28,640 --> 00:00:31,840 Speaker 3: every man, woman and their dog is in the press 12 00:00:31,840 --> 00:00:35,840 Speaker 3: gallery at the moment in the High Court covering the case. 13 00:00:35,880 --> 00:00:39,040 Speaker 3: And you know it's a huge case. I mean you 14 00:00:39,120 --> 00:00:42,120 Speaker 3: talked about the interest on the website and I don't 15 00:00:42,120 --> 00:00:45,400 Speaker 3: think I've seen these sort of numbers since probably you know, 16 00:00:45,920 --> 00:00:49,560 Speaker 3: smart Hope right sort of casey and there's a huge interest. 17 00:00:49,760 --> 00:00:51,479 Speaker 1: Well there's three big stories as well, of course, as 18 00:00:51,479 --> 00:00:54,760 Speaker 1: a health New Zealand, the bloating, the fourteen layers of bureaucracy. 19 00:00:54,800 --> 00:00:55,920 Speaker 1: What did you make of that, Nick. 20 00:00:57,640 --> 00:01:02,240 Speaker 2: Well, it's not not unexpected in many ways, is that 21 00:01:02,360 --> 00:01:05,880 Speaker 2: we know that you know what is what was dressed 22 00:01:05,920 --> 00:01:10,840 Speaker 2: up as health reform was really technocratic reform, and it's 23 00:01:10,920 --> 00:01:15,440 Speaker 2: very difficult to see where that actually improves those frontline 24 00:01:16,080 --> 00:01:19,880 Speaker 2: and those sort of things like cancer treatments for New Zealanders. 25 00:01:20,360 --> 00:01:23,679 Speaker 2: And I do worry it's very removed from the needs 26 00:01:23,720 --> 00:01:26,080 Speaker 2: of kiwi's, you know, whether it's getting to your doctor 27 00:01:26,560 --> 00:01:29,319 Speaker 2: or getting the treatment that you need. And we know 28 00:01:29,400 --> 00:01:33,360 Speaker 2: that there's a that's a system under stress and underfunded, 29 00:01:33,400 --> 00:01:35,840 Speaker 2: and we think about farmac rolled into that as well, 30 00:01:36,000 --> 00:01:40,160 Speaker 2: though that's probably technically separate. It's it almost feels like 31 00:01:40,240 --> 00:01:44,400 Speaker 2: a conversation that's happening amongst you know, the sort of insiders, 32 00:01:44,480 --> 00:01:47,520 Speaker 2: rather than one that really where kiwis can see their 33 00:01:47,560 --> 00:01:48,440 Speaker 2: needs are reflective. 34 00:01:48,520 --> 00:01:50,000 Speaker 1: This is true, but it is a very complex thing, 35 00:01:50,000 --> 00:01:51,400 Speaker 1: and I think it's very ad hoc. I think they've 36 00:01:51,440 --> 00:01:54,920 Speaker 1: sort of bolted stuff onto, bolted stuff onto, bolted stuff onto, 37 00:01:55,080 --> 00:01:57,320 Speaker 1: if you know what I mean. As new treatments come through, 38 00:01:57,440 --> 00:02:00,400 Speaker 1: they bolted on. It becomes a new bureaucracy. And this 39 00:02:00,440 --> 00:02:03,000 Speaker 1: has been going on for years. I don't think we've 40 00:02:03,120 --> 00:02:06,640 Speaker 1: had I think we've had a bloated bureaucracy for a 41 00:02:06,840 --> 00:02:09,760 Speaker 1: very long time, not just the last Labor administration, but 42 00:02:09,800 --> 00:02:10,959 Speaker 1: for decades beforehand. 43 00:02:11,000 --> 00:02:13,600 Speaker 3: Shane definitely. Definitely, it's been not going on for years. 44 00:02:13,720 --> 00:02:16,600 Speaker 3: I've got huge confidence and Lester Levy, both from a 45 00:02:16,639 --> 00:02:19,480 Speaker 3: private business point of view and his experience in the 46 00:02:19,960 --> 00:02:23,000 Speaker 3: health sector to actually be the person to help sort 47 00:02:23,000 --> 00:02:24,440 Speaker 3: it out. I know there's a lot of debate around 48 00:02:24,440 --> 00:02:27,680 Speaker 3: the four regional managers that have been announced and whether 49 00:02:27,760 --> 00:02:30,079 Speaker 3: or not that's just another kind of bolt on as 50 00:02:30,080 --> 00:02:32,880 Speaker 3: well Andrew, but I certainly think and just looking at 51 00:02:32,880 --> 00:02:35,480 Speaker 3: their backgrounds, they do have a great mix of being 52 00:02:35,520 --> 00:02:41,440 Speaker 3: both formerly frontline medical staff and great experience as leaders, 53 00:02:41,800 --> 00:02:43,880 Speaker 3: and I think that's exactly what the health sector needs. 54 00:02:43,960 --> 00:02:45,639 Speaker 1: Very good stuff. Okay, we're in the huddle. We have 55 00:02:45,720 --> 00:02:47,639 Speaker 1: Nick let we have Shane Curry. We're back in a moment. 56 00:02:47,680 --> 00:02:49,320 Speaker 1: We're in the water of the sea, and yes it's 57 00:02:49,360 --> 00:02:51,880 Speaker 1: on the huddle, Nick Leggett and also Shane Curry. So 58 00:02:51,919 --> 00:02:54,639 Speaker 1: I said there were three big stories Bulkinghorn Health New Zealand, 59 00:02:54,639 --> 00:02:56,600 Speaker 1: and the third one has been the triathlon. Will they 60 00:02:56,720 --> 00:03:00,679 Speaker 1: or won't they? They are? Shane? Do you believe? So? 61 00:03:00,880 --> 00:03:02,640 Speaker 1: I just make sure that your microphone's on then we go. 62 00:03:02,840 --> 00:03:05,200 Speaker 1: It's a big red button. Do you believe that the 63 00:03:05,240 --> 00:03:08,080 Speaker 1: water is actually clean or the pressure is too great. 64 00:03:08,240 --> 00:03:10,480 Speaker 3: No, the water's not clean. I listened to Levina before, 65 00:03:10,520 --> 00:03:12,919 Speaker 3: and she's been living in Paris for the last few 66 00:03:12,919 --> 00:03:15,079 Speaker 3: weeks and hasn't seen anyone in the river apart from 67 00:03:15,080 --> 00:03:16,959 Speaker 3: the mir of course. Has anyone seen the mia since 68 00:03:17,000 --> 00:03:19,519 Speaker 3: she a two weeks ago. 69 00:03:19,639 --> 00:03:22,600 Speaker 1: You know what I've down fuddy about? That goes well, 70 00:03:22,680 --> 00:03:24,840 Speaker 1: I get into the water, I come out of the water. 71 00:03:24,960 --> 00:03:26,600 Speaker 1: I am fine. I'm going yeah, but the bugs are 72 00:03:26,600 --> 00:03:27,800 Speaker 1: going to hit you in twenty four hours, in. 73 00:03:27,880 --> 00:03:29,600 Speaker 3: A couple of weeks. Look, I'm sure they'll be fine. 74 00:03:29,720 --> 00:03:31,280 Speaker 3: I know that they You know, there was obviously a 75 00:03:31,280 --> 00:03:34,400 Speaker 3: pre Olympic event last year and the athletes didn't have 76 00:03:34,480 --> 00:03:36,760 Speaker 3: any issue. Following that, the rain has been an issue. 77 00:03:36,800 --> 00:03:38,840 Speaker 3: I see it's overcast in Paris right now, but we're 78 00:03:38,880 --> 00:03:42,000 Speaker 3: only minutes away from from the women's triathlon actually starting, 79 00:03:42,040 --> 00:03:44,320 Speaker 3: so it's great to see. I don't think you know 80 00:03:44,360 --> 00:03:47,040 Speaker 3: the likes of Hayden wild if he and let's hope 81 00:03:47,040 --> 00:03:48,920 Speaker 3: that he will get another medal. I think he will, 82 00:03:49,800 --> 00:03:52,160 Speaker 3: But if it was to be a duathlon, there'd always 83 00:03:52,160 --> 00:03:53,160 Speaker 3: be that esterisk beside it. 84 00:03:53,240 --> 00:03:56,240 Speaker 1: Right, they're terrible, They're terrible, And Nick Nick actually with 85 00:03:56,400 --> 00:03:59,240 Speaker 1: your your hat on the CEO of the infrastructure and 86 00:03:59,240 --> 00:04:01,560 Speaker 1: all that have it in Paris is a huge lesson 87 00:04:01,560 --> 00:04:04,320 Speaker 1: for Auckland and everywhere else where. We haven't separated as systems. 88 00:04:04,360 --> 00:04:07,440 Speaker 1: A oh, I haven't cooked you on airs like I'm 89 00:04:07,480 --> 00:04:08,680 Speaker 1: so sorry, there you go. 90 00:04:09,760 --> 00:04:13,320 Speaker 2: Look, I think when I when I read, when I followed, 91 00:04:13,360 --> 00:04:15,880 Speaker 2: as I followed this story, I have been thinking this 92 00:04:16,000 --> 00:04:21,880 Speaker 2: is a really important spotlight on you know, on Paris, 93 00:04:21,960 --> 00:04:25,800 Speaker 2: but actually it's something that every world community can relate 94 00:04:25,880 --> 00:04:30,320 Speaker 2: to the health of our waterways, the impacts of wastewater 95 00:04:30,760 --> 00:04:34,920 Speaker 2: and storm water, both in wet and dry weather. And 96 00:04:34,960 --> 00:04:37,200 Speaker 2: if you think, you know, there's been massive outrage in 97 00:04:37,320 --> 00:04:43,280 Speaker 2: the UK in recent around or actually years in relation 98 00:04:43,400 --> 00:04:45,400 Speaker 2: to the same sort of issues, we are not immune 99 00:04:45,440 --> 00:04:47,839 Speaker 2: from it here and so I think it actually places 100 00:04:47,920 --> 00:04:52,200 Speaker 2: quite an important spotlight on the health of our waterways 101 00:04:52,240 --> 00:04:56,400 Speaker 2: and rivers and the impact of cities and you know, 102 00:04:56,480 --> 00:04:59,919 Speaker 2: the ability for the natural environment to sort of you know, 103 00:05:00,600 --> 00:05:05,000 Speaker 2: survive with the right kind of treatment and the right 104 00:05:05,320 --> 00:05:08,000 Speaker 2: and the right care, and so infrastructure is obviously a 105 00:05:08,000 --> 00:05:11,040 Speaker 2: massive part of that. So you know, I want I 106 00:05:11,080 --> 00:05:16,640 Speaker 2: want the I want the the the triathlon to occur. 107 00:05:17,000 --> 00:05:19,120 Speaker 2: I think we all want to follow that, but I 108 00:05:19,160 --> 00:05:21,960 Speaker 2: think we also need to all learn the lesson from 109 00:05:22,000 --> 00:05:25,040 Speaker 2: what's going on there and not snigger about it, because 110 00:05:25,240 --> 00:05:27,479 Speaker 2: it's something that's well. 111 00:05:27,400 --> 00:05:29,120 Speaker 1: It's very very serious and it's not getting to a 112 00:05:29,120 --> 00:05:31,640 Speaker 1: debate about three waters, ten waters, fifteen waters, or no 113 00:05:31,760 --> 00:05:34,400 Speaker 1: waters at all, or be here all night. But what 114 00:05:34,480 --> 00:05:36,480 Speaker 1: I will talk about is the one in five gns 115 00:05:36,520 --> 00:05:38,320 Speaker 1: STA which could be laid off of the latest public 116 00:05:38,360 --> 00:05:40,680 Speaker 1: service cut. And some people have come out and said, 117 00:05:40,880 --> 00:05:43,560 Speaker 1: and particularly people in the science community, so that we're 118 00:05:43,600 --> 00:05:46,400 Speaker 1: actually cutting too many people out from the science community. 119 00:05:46,400 --> 00:05:48,920 Speaker 1: The Callahan Institute has been gutted and now g and 120 00:05:49,120 --> 00:05:52,560 Speaker 1: S is being gutted. But surely these people are public servants. 121 00:05:52,600 --> 00:05:54,440 Speaker 1: But don't we need scientists. 122 00:05:54,680 --> 00:05:57,840 Speaker 3: We need scientists, and yes, there is I think of 123 00:05:57,920 --> 00:06:01,280 Speaker 3: the round one fifth of the workforce a genus that 124 00:06:01,680 --> 00:06:03,280 Speaker 3: they're looking at, and of course we've seen it with 125 00:06:03,320 --> 00:06:07,240 Speaker 3: Nior as well Andrew unfortunately, and I have deep sympathy 126 00:06:07,279 --> 00:06:10,320 Speaker 3: for every individual who's affected. But you know, this government 127 00:06:10,360 --> 00:06:13,880 Speaker 3: has been very clear just about the cuts that are needed, 128 00:06:13,920 --> 00:06:16,240 Speaker 3: and we're all facing it as taxpayers, we're all facing 129 00:06:16,320 --> 00:06:20,320 Speaker 3: it in private business. Wellington should be no exception. The 130 00:06:21,400 --> 00:06:24,159 Speaker 3: interesting thing and I covered this earlier this week with 131 00:06:24,200 --> 00:06:27,400 Speaker 3: the closure today of Senate Communications, and it's now a 132 00:06:27,400 --> 00:06:31,920 Speaker 3: lot of downstream industries that are losing contracts as a 133 00:06:31,960 --> 00:06:35,239 Speaker 3: result of the public sector cutbacks. It's now impact starting 134 00:06:35,240 --> 00:06:38,200 Speaker 3: to impact very deeply in the Wellington private sector as well. 135 00:06:38,279 --> 00:06:40,880 Speaker 1: Yes, it is because we had so many people there 136 00:06:40,920 --> 00:06:43,120 Speaker 1: in that economy, so that's going to affect it. Nick 137 00:06:43,120 --> 00:06:47,599 Speaker 1: knows that because he's down that economy as well. But 138 00:06:47,640 --> 00:06:51,080 Speaker 1: here's the thing, Nick, ask a doctor, you know, you 139 00:06:51,080 --> 00:06:52,919 Speaker 1: can cut the fat, you can cut the disease, but 140 00:06:52,960 --> 00:06:54,880 Speaker 1: you don't want to cut the good meat. And I 141 00:06:55,640 --> 00:06:58,839 Speaker 1: wonder sometimes whether the cuts have been too broad. 142 00:07:00,120 --> 00:07:02,520 Speaker 2: This is the concern. As we're seeing here. It doesn't 143 00:07:02,560 --> 00:07:09,359 Speaker 2: look like a sort of a specific attempt to cut 144 00:07:09,440 --> 00:07:13,160 Speaker 2: excess fat. It just looks like an across the board reduction. 145 00:07:13,480 --> 00:07:18,080 Speaker 2: And I think that's the danger with this, these cutbacks 146 00:07:18,080 --> 00:07:22,520 Speaker 2: across the public sector. We know that the government feels 147 00:07:22,520 --> 00:07:25,000 Speaker 2: that it's been spending too much, and it was elected 148 00:07:25,040 --> 00:07:28,400 Speaker 2: on that mandate and they're now delivering on it. What 149 00:07:28,480 --> 00:07:31,040 Speaker 2: concerns me is does anybody think that New Zealand spends 150 00:07:31,040 --> 00:07:34,040 Speaker 2: too much on research? And development. Does anybody think that 151 00:07:34,080 --> 00:07:38,440 Speaker 2: we've got we know enough around the sort of services 152 00:07:38,480 --> 00:07:43,400 Speaker 2: that GENS providers in terms of earthquakes and other knowledge 153 00:07:42,640 --> 00:07:46,800 Speaker 2: of New Zealand. I don't think we do. And that's 154 00:07:47,240 --> 00:07:49,960 Speaker 2: that's really the challenge here. So I think that you 155 00:07:50,000 --> 00:07:53,680 Speaker 2: can say, well, broadly, there's a reason the governments has 156 00:07:53,920 --> 00:07:58,640 Speaker 2: undertaken this policy direction, but you know, when it comes 157 00:07:58,640 --> 00:08:01,120 Speaker 2: to these sort of services, does make you think, gee, 158 00:08:01,160 --> 00:08:03,800 Speaker 2: there could have been a little bit more direction or 159 00:08:03,840 --> 00:08:04,840 Speaker 2: discretion of people. 160 00:08:04,840 --> 00:08:07,640 Speaker 1: But the problem, the problem there is time. You know, 161 00:08:07,800 --> 00:08:11,920 Speaker 1: you can have so much discretion, so much analysis, paralysis, 162 00:08:11,960 --> 00:08:14,200 Speaker 1: and then before you know it, you know it's taken 163 00:08:14,240 --> 00:08:15,239 Speaker 1: a year and you've done nothing. 164 00:08:16,440 --> 00:08:19,080 Speaker 2: Well, I don't accept that. I mean, I think there 165 00:08:19,120 --> 00:08:24,440 Speaker 2: are ways of being more focused and still reducing costs. 166 00:08:25,520 --> 00:08:29,480 Speaker 2: But look, it's happening, and you're absolutely right, both of 167 00:08:29,520 --> 00:08:34,439 Speaker 2: you that it's not just the downstream services the wider economy. 168 00:08:34,440 --> 00:08:36,920 Speaker 2: There are thousands of people losing their jobs every week 169 00:08:36,920 --> 00:08:41,520 Speaker 2: across New Zealand and we actually need to recognize that 170 00:08:41,920 --> 00:08:45,559 Speaker 2: as well as those people who obviously we obviously sympathize 171 00:08:45,600 --> 00:08:47,480 Speaker 2: with in the public service that are going through the 172 00:08:47,480 --> 00:08:47,880 Speaker 2: same thing. 173 00:08:48,000 --> 00:08:50,000 Speaker 1: Nick you obviously don't understand the concept of the huddle, 174 00:08:50,000 --> 00:08:51,600 Speaker 1: which is where we all disagree and then we come 175 00:08:51,640 --> 00:08:53,080 Speaker 1: to blows at the end of it. But I thank 176 00:08:53,080 --> 00:08:55,120 Speaker 1: you anyway, all the very best say coming on the 177 00:08:55,200 --> 00:08:57,640 Speaker 1: very best b It is seven to. 178 00:08:57,600 --> 00:09:02,079 Speaker 2: Six more from Hither Duplessy Allen Drive. 179 00:09:02,240 --> 00:09:05,559 Speaker 3: Listen live to news talks it'd be from four pm weekdays, 180 00:09:05,760 --> 00:09:07,959 Speaker 3: or follow the podcast on iHeartRadio.