1 00:00:07,133 --> 00:00:10,453 Speaker 1: You're listening to the Saturday Morning with Jack team podcast 2 00:00:10,573 --> 00:00:11,733 Speaker 1: from News Talks, there'd be. 3 00:00:12,893 --> 00:00:16,293 Speaker 2: Doogle Sutherland from Umbrella Well Being, our clinical psychologist is 4 00:00:16,293 --> 00:00:20,373 Speaker 2: with us this morning talking meaningful connections this Easter weekend, 5 00:00:20,413 --> 00:00:21,453 Speaker 2: get a Google. 6 00:00:21,773 --> 00:00:24,573 Speaker 3: Cure to Jack. Yes, it seems the perfect time, really, 7 00:00:24,573 --> 00:00:27,253 Speaker 3: doesn't it, to be connecting with people. I was just 8 00:00:27,333 --> 00:00:30,333 Speaker 3: listening to your interview with some Stephen k Amos around. 9 00:00:30,773 --> 00:00:35,213 Speaker 3: You know, the connecting power of humor around laughing, And 10 00:00:35,253 --> 00:00:37,133 Speaker 3: I think in this sort of day and age, the 11 00:00:37,133 --> 00:00:41,653 Speaker 3: more that we can get connections with other people, the better. Frankly, 12 00:00:41,733 --> 00:00:44,893 Speaker 3: I think it would help many many things in our 13 00:00:44,933 --> 00:00:46,013 Speaker 3: lives and in our world. 14 00:00:47,533 --> 00:00:50,333 Speaker 2: Isn't it of the digital age? We are more connected 15 00:00:50,333 --> 00:00:52,693 Speaker 2: than ever and yet somehow less connected than ever. It 16 00:00:52,773 --> 00:00:56,013 Speaker 2: is that this great tragedy of the of the technical 17 00:00:56,053 --> 00:00:59,053 Speaker 2: and technological innovation of the last few decades. 18 00:00:59,813 --> 00:01:03,853 Speaker 3: One hundred percent, And this new survey from from two Degrees, 19 00:01:04,013 --> 00:01:06,613 Speaker 3: it says exactly that they say like to are the 20 00:01:06,773 --> 00:01:11,413 Speaker 3: key finding. Sixty seven percent of us would like will 21 00:01:11,773 --> 00:01:15,293 Speaker 3: say that a meaningful conversation is hard to come by. 22 00:01:16,093 --> 00:01:19,893 Speaker 3: So that's two thirds of us say that, and yet 23 00:01:19,973 --> 00:01:23,853 Speaker 3: we are nine times more likely to scroll on our 24 00:01:23,893 --> 00:01:26,293 Speaker 3: phones than to pick up the than to use the 25 00:01:26,293 --> 00:01:29,213 Speaker 3: phone and actually call someone. So we're kind of this 26 00:01:29,653 --> 00:01:32,693 Speaker 3: where it paints a picture of sort of us desperately 27 00:01:32,733 --> 00:01:36,733 Speaker 3: wanting human connection and just not kind of getting there. 28 00:01:36,773 --> 00:01:39,973 Speaker 3: We just sort of get distracted by the phone and 29 00:01:40,013 --> 00:01:41,973 Speaker 3: the well, not the phone. The phone's not the problem. 30 00:01:41,973 --> 00:01:45,493 Speaker 3: It's the scrolling, really, and you get tied up in 31 00:01:45,573 --> 00:01:49,653 Speaker 3: your social media and the endless scroll. You know, once, 32 00:01:49,933 --> 00:01:52,373 Speaker 3: can you ever get to the bottom of your chosen 33 00:01:52,413 --> 00:01:55,813 Speaker 3: social media platform? Probably not, but doing that at the 34 00:01:55,853 --> 00:01:59,933 Speaker 3: expense of actually calling people and just having a meaningful conversation, 35 00:02:00,053 --> 00:02:02,533 Speaker 3: which is I think so much more important than just 36 00:02:02,693 --> 00:02:04,653 Speaker 3: scrolling around on your social media. 37 00:02:04,733 --> 00:02:07,413 Speaker 2: So I reckon there are a couple of upsides to it, like, 38 00:02:07,453 --> 00:02:12,293 Speaker 2: for example, I think one of the great things for connectivity, 39 00:02:12,333 --> 00:02:14,613 Speaker 2: at least in my experience. I mean, obviously it's easier 40 00:02:14,613 --> 00:02:16,453 Speaker 2: to keep in touch with people who are overseas and 41 00:02:16,493 --> 00:02:18,293 Speaker 2: you know, that kind of thing that was in the past. 42 00:02:18,893 --> 00:02:21,213 Speaker 2: But I one thing I really like is in our family, 43 00:02:21,213 --> 00:02:24,413 Speaker 2: we run a we have a WhatsApp chat. Yeah, we 44 00:02:24,453 --> 00:02:26,413 Speaker 2: can all kind of contribute to it, and it does 45 00:02:26,653 --> 00:02:29,173 Speaker 2: seem to me like it's really easy for the family 46 00:02:29,213 --> 00:02:33,933 Speaker 2: to have kind of family wide communication in a way 47 00:02:33,973 --> 00:02:36,533 Speaker 2: that we never were able to before, and that there 48 00:02:36,613 --> 00:02:39,013 Speaker 2: is something meaningful on that. Like even for example, like 49 00:02:39,093 --> 00:02:42,933 Speaker 2: we just share like silly photos or you know, like 50 00:02:43,053 --> 00:02:46,293 Speaker 2: in jokes. WhatsApp Chat is a really good place for 51 00:02:46,333 --> 00:02:49,013 Speaker 2: sharing in jokes, and that is meaningful connection. But like 52 00:02:49,053 --> 00:02:51,933 Speaker 2: you say, like the number of times I speak on 53 00:02:51,973 --> 00:02:55,213 Speaker 2: the phone compared to what we were down twenty years ago, 54 00:02:55,653 --> 00:02:59,333 Speaker 2: compared to just a text or something, Yeah, it's yeah. 55 00:03:00,173 --> 00:03:01,933 Speaker 3: I agree. I think those sort of things like the 56 00:03:01,973 --> 00:03:05,933 Speaker 3: texts and the and the and the social media stuff 57 00:03:05,933 --> 00:03:08,613 Speaker 3: are I always think they're a bit like postcards. You know, 58 00:03:08,893 --> 00:03:10,493 Speaker 3: back in the day, you would send a postcard and 59 00:03:10,533 --> 00:03:12,573 Speaker 3: it's just an update on what my life is like. 60 00:03:12,973 --> 00:03:17,733 Speaker 3: But it's not really that interactive communicate that interactive thing, 61 00:03:17,813 --> 00:03:21,053 Speaker 3: and sure it can supplement it. But interesting this two 62 00:03:21,093 --> 00:03:25,093 Speaker 3: degrees studies said that seventy seventy seven sorry percent of 63 00:03:25,133 --> 00:03:28,333 Speaker 3: us feel better after we've had a phone call with 64 00:03:28,373 --> 00:03:31,693 Speaker 3: a loved one. So it does have that payoff, I think. 65 00:03:31,733 --> 00:03:33,973 Speaker 3: And you know, if you've been catching up with you know, 66 00:03:33,973 --> 00:03:37,333 Speaker 3: if you've been monitoring people via social media, monitoring is 67 00:03:37,373 --> 00:03:38,973 Speaker 3: possibly not the right word, sounds of it sort of 68 00:03:39,053 --> 00:03:40,893 Speaker 3: nineteen eighty four US. But keeping up with them then 69 00:03:40,893 --> 00:03:42,653 Speaker 3: you've got more to chat about when you actually do 70 00:03:42,813 --> 00:03:47,533 Speaker 3: ring them and have a call. But it's and the 71 00:03:47,653 --> 00:03:50,733 Speaker 3: sad news too, is that it seems worse for gen Z. 72 00:03:51,733 --> 00:03:56,653 Speaker 3: Gen Z reports sort of higher rates of of having 73 00:03:56,933 --> 00:04:00,733 Speaker 3: meaningful conversations and even higher rates of feeling better when 74 00:04:00,733 --> 00:04:03,133 Speaker 3: they actually talk on the phone, and they probably scrolling 75 00:04:03,533 --> 00:04:07,413 Speaker 3: more than the rest of us. But I would say 76 00:04:07,413 --> 00:04:09,973 Speaker 3: when I read that, I thought it's easy to bag 77 00:04:10,013 --> 00:04:13,173 Speaker 3: on gen Z. But but I remember, and I was 78 00:04:13,173 --> 00:04:15,813 Speaker 3: talking about this to somebody in the office during the week. 79 00:04:16,373 --> 00:04:18,813 Speaker 3: I remember my first job when I was sort of 80 00:04:18,853 --> 00:04:22,173 Speaker 3: early twenties, and the anxiety that was filled with actually 81 00:04:22,253 --> 00:04:25,613 Speaker 3: having to make a phone call to somebody. It was like, oh, 82 00:04:26,333 --> 00:04:28,453 Speaker 3: and you know you'd write it down. My name is 83 00:04:28,533 --> 00:04:31,373 Speaker 3: Dougle and I am a clinical and you know it 84 00:04:31,493 --> 00:04:33,533 Speaker 3: have it all written down so that I could And 85 00:04:33,533 --> 00:04:37,253 Speaker 3: there's nothing better for social communications and reading out a scripted. 86 00:04:38,813 --> 00:04:39,173 Speaker 2: Fluid. 87 00:04:40,373 --> 00:04:44,493 Speaker 3: Yeah. So I think that's a bit of a generational thing, 88 00:04:45,093 --> 00:04:47,653 Speaker 3: and actually the survey results kind of backed that up. 89 00:04:47,733 --> 00:04:50,493 Speaker 3: But by saying that people often don't call because I 90 00:04:50,533 --> 00:04:53,293 Speaker 3: think I might interrupt somebody, or you know, it might 91 00:04:53,333 --> 00:04:55,253 Speaker 3: not be okay for them, or they might not know 92 00:04:55,293 --> 00:04:58,133 Speaker 3: who I am. But you know, you can always text 93 00:04:58,133 --> 00:04:59,653 Speaker 3: that stuff and you know, say hey is it you 94 00:04:59,653 --> 00:05:01,533 Speaker 3: know you could to talk now, or this is who 95 00:05:01,573 --> 00:05:03,773 Speaker 3: I am, and then follow it up with a phone call. 96 00:05:03,893 --> 00:05:07,293 Speaker 2: So yeah, with the funny is that I would also 97 00:05:07,333 --> 00:05:09,413 Speaker 2: say that even though we don't speak on the phone 98 00:05:09,413 --> 00:05:12,773 Speaker 2: as much, when when you do, have good conversations, because 99 00:05:12,853 --> 00:05:16,733 Speaker 2: the barriers to communication so much lower than they, yeah, 100 00:05:16,773 --> 00:05:20,133 Speaker 2: cost and everything, you can actually like, I'll happily just 101 00:05:20,213 --> 00:05:22,933 Speaker 2: ring someone sometimes yes, and they'll be like, hey, I've 102 00:05:22,933 --> 00:05:24,453 Speaker 2: got like three minutes and then I got a shoot 103 00:05:24,453 --> 00:05:26,293 Speaker 2: and nobody like yeah, you're good, you know, And it's 104 00:05:26,333 --> 00:05:29,213 Speaker 2: not like in the past, where you know, people overseas 105 00:05:29,213 --> 00:05:32,173 Speaker 2: you'd have to shedule the time and arrange to talk 106 00:05:32,213 --> 00:05:33,893 Speaker 2: on the phone, and you know, it's a really big 107 00:05:34,133 --> 00:05:37,453 Speaker 2: and every second you're thinking, right, okay, this is costing 108 00:05:37,493 --> 00:05:41,773 Speaker 2: me a dollar a minute. 109 00:05:40,493 --> 00:05:42,893 Speaker 3: And you can divestright into right because you know you've 110 00:05:43,093 --> 00:05:45,213 Speaker 3: you've perhaps been catching up with their life and you've 111 00:05:45,253 --> 00:05:47,853 Speaker 3: seen something, Oh look, you know they've they've done such 112 00:05:47,893 --> 00:05:50,613 Speaker 3: and such they've had such a big experience or or 113 00:05:50,693 --> 00:05:52,773 Speaker 3: this bad things happen. Actually I'll call them. And I 114 00:05:52,773 --> 00:05:55,773 Speaker 3: think that's our challenge, is actually giving people a ring. 115 00:05:57,533 --> 00:05:59,493 Speaker 3: And I think perfect to be talking about it over Easter, 116 00:05:59,653 --> 00:06:02,173 Speaker 3: right because almost all of us have got a couple 117 00:06:02,213 --> 00:06:05,653 Speaker 3: of days extra off where when when lots of things 118 00:06:05,653 --> 00:06:08,613 Speaker 3: are closed, everything's closed or most things are closed again 119 00:06:08,653 --> 00:06:12,973 Speaker 3: tomorrow on Sunday, and perfect opportunity, I reckon to actually 120 00:06:12,973 --> 00:06:18,013 Speaker 3: call somebody and look, I've had this experience of getting 121 00:06:18,013 --> 00:06:19,733 Speaker 3: into the habit. My mum is getting a bit older, 122 00:06:20,053 --> 00:06:22,133 Speaker 3: and I've started to get into the habit of giving 123 00:06:22,173 --> 00:06:25,813 Speaker 3: her a call every week on a Sunday, just kind 124 00:06:25,813 --> 00:06:28,453 Speaker 3: of a regular thing just to hear her voice and 125 00:06:28,493 --> 00:06:31,453 Speaker 3: for her to hear mine. It's actually been really nice. 126 00:06:31,453 --> 00:06:34,333 Speaker 3: I've really started to enjoy it. And last Sunday, I 127 00:06:34,333 --> 00:06:35,893 Speaker 3: think we spent like an hour and a half on 128 00:06:35,933 --> 00:06:37,693 Speaker 3: the phone just talking and it was like, good Lord, 129 00:06:38,093 --> 00:06:41,013 Speaker 3: who would have thought that? But you know, just that 130 00:06:41,373 --> 00:06:43,693 Speaker 3: will be my challenge to people this Easter weekend, as 131 00:06:43,733 --> 00:06:46,853 Speaker 3: if you know, pick up the phone and make it 132 00:06:46,893 --> 00:06:49,293 Speaker 3: if you're not sure, if you're not sure, if it's 133 00:06:49,333 --> 00:06:50,733 Speaker 3: going to be right, just like I'm a text and 134 00:06:50,733 --> 00:06:52,493 Speaker 3: say hey, you know it was going to call you 135 00:06:52,533 --> 00:06:55,093 Speaker 3: sometime this weekend, win suits and then give them a 136 00:06:55,133 --> 00:06:57,533 Speaker 3: call and see what a difference it makes. 137 00:06:58,053 --> 00:07:01,093 Speaker 2: Can you remember people's phone numbers? Can you do that? 138 00:07:01,173 --> 00:07:05,693 Speaker 3: No? No? Have you ever tried to go in and 139 00:07:05,773 --> 00:07:08,813 Speaker 3: fill out of form or form online and they say 140 00:07:09,053 --> 00:07:11,133 Speaker 3: what's the phone number of your next of kin? Then 141 00:07:11,173 --> 00:07:16,053 Speaker 3: I say R A, C, H E L And what's 142 00:07:16,093 --> 00:07:17,853 Speaker 3: the phone I don't know what the phone number is, 143 00:07:17,893 --> 00:07:20,493 Speaker 3: but yeah, no, no, and you have to pull out 144 00:07:20,493 --> 00:07:25,693 Speaker 3: your phone and go two two what yeah? Two O? Yeah, no, 145 00:07:25,773 --> 00:07:26,333 Speaker 3: I can't think. 146 00:07:26,253 --> 00:07:29,213 Speaker 2: I can remember maybe three, including my own. I can 147 00:07:29,253 --> 00:07:32,093 Speaker 2: remember mine, my wife's and maybe my mum's as well. 148 00:07:32,133 --> 00:07:33,893 Speaker 2: That might be yeah, yeah, yeah. 149 00:07:33,933 --> 00:07:35,613 Speaker 3: Well I don't know if it's helpful, but I can 150 00:07:35,653 --> 00:07:37,613 Speaker 3: remember my phone number when I was from when I 151 00:07:37,653 --> 00:07:41,093 Speaker 3: was about eight living in Dunedin, but it only yeah, 152 00:07:41,933 --> 00:07:45,653 Speaker 3: it had only had five digits. Yeah, yeah, but I 153 00:07:45,653 --> 00:07:48,173 Speaker 3: don't think it's used anymore, so it's no, it's not 154 00:07:48,213 --> 00:07:50,333 Speaker 3: particularly helpful at all, but it's it's embedded in my 155 00:07:50,413 --> 00:07:51,253 Speaker 3: long term memory. 156 00:07:51,533 --> 00:07:54,173 Speaker 2: I've got that same feeling with our childhood phone number. 157 00:07:54,173 --> 00:07:57,173 Speaker 2: In fact, every time. I you know, even like we'll 158 00:07:57,173 --> 00:08:00,453 Speaker 2: go through stuff that's kind of survived, you know, the generations, 159 00:08:00,493 --> 00:08:03,613 Speaker 2: be it booker boards or tramping packs and that kind 160 00:08:03,613 --> 00:08:08,253 Speaker 2: of thing, and often and huge letters is burned in 161 00:08:08,413 --> 00:08:11,853 Speaker 2: with the most permanent, permanent markets as much after phone number, 162 00:08:11,933 --> 00:08:12,613 Speaker 2: you know, yeah. 163 00:08:12,493 --> 00:08:13,093 Speaker 1: Something like that. 164 00:08:13,173 --> 00:08:13,413 Speaker 3: Great. 165 00:08:13,493 --> 00:08:17,733 Speaker 2: I'm really glad that dad did this because yeah, we get. 166 00:08:17,653 --> 00:08:20,133 Speaker 3: Little We used to get printed out labels, I think, 167 00:08:20,173 --> 00:08:21,933 Speaker 3: and you could sew them, you know, your mum would 168 00:08:21,933 --> 00:08:24,333 Speaker 3: sew them into your clothes with so that it had 169 00:08:24,373 --> 00:08:26,213 Speaker 3: your surname and your phone number on the back of 170 00:08:26,253 --> 00:08:28,733 Speaker 3: your school jersey in case in case you lost it, 171 00:08:28,813 --> 00:08:31,853 Speaker 3: which you would ever did at some point. But no, 172 00:08:31,933 --> 00:08:35,133 Speaker 3: we don't do really that much anymore. So yeah, so good. 173 00:08:35,173 --> 00:08:37,173 Speaker 2: Hey, love that. Hey, thank you very much. Have a 174 00:08:37,173 --> 00:08:39,213 Speaker 2: great Easter weekend and we will catch you again soon. 175 00:08:39,253 --> 00:08:41,293 Speaker 2: Google Sutherland there from Umbrella Well Being. 176 00:08:41,693 --> 00:08:44,813 Speaker 1: For more from Saturday Morning with Jack Tame, listen live 177 00:08:44,893 --> 00:08:47,733 Speaker 1: to news talks that'd be from nine am Saturday, or 178 00:08:47,773 --> 00:08:49,693 Speaker 1: follow the podcast on iHeartRadio.