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Speaker 1: Law firms and the government are scrambling this after an

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Speaker 1: unexpected ruling by the High Court in Wellington in question

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Speaker 1: a permit that the NZTA had got to inadvertently kill

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Speaker 1: bats and keiweed during the build of the Mount Messenger bypass.

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Speaker 1: The court ruled that permit was unlawful. In simple terms,

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Speaker 1: nothing can be killed unless it is diseased or there

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Speaker 1: is over population. But that will likely impact developers and

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Speaker 1: everything from minds to roads, a whole bunch of stuff. Now,

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Speaker 1: Sally McKinney is with Simpson Greerson. She's a partner and

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Speaker 1: she's here to break it down for us. Good afternoon,

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Speaker 1: Good afternoon, right, Sally. How many projects could this potentially affect?

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Speaker 2: We don't know exactly because there's no public list of

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Speaker 2: companies or entities that hold these permits. But if you're

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Speaker 2: a commercial or industrial infrastructure builder or developer with a

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Speaker 2: big footprint, particularly if you've got vegetation clearance, it's very

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Speaker 2: likely you've had to get a wildlife permit or you've

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Speaker 2: got one you're applying for at the moment with DOC

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Speaker 2: so potentially very wide.

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Speaker 1: So they're not going out and shooting key we are there.

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Speaker 1: I mean it's just if you're clearing vegetation, some might

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Speaker 1: die in the process.

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Speaker 3: Is that it that's most of the permits.

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Speaker 2: Yes, it's for situations where you might inadvertently kill something.

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Speaker 2: So you do your best to clear an area. But

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Speaker 2: your experts tell you that even if you use exhaustive efforts,

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Speaker 2: there will be some lizards, for example, left behind, and

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Speaker 2: some may be killed when you then move the rocks

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Speaker 2: or move the earth or dig the whole right, So no,

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Speaker 2: one's very few of these are to do it on purpose.

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Speaker 3: Some of them are, but very few these.

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Speaker 2: Ones are much more inadvertent by catch, if you will,

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Speaker 2: of development.

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Speaker 1: Okay, is this a big deal? I mean does this

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Speaker 1: mean that you know all the current permits might be invalid.

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Speaker 2: For the permits where these these commercial questions. Yes, there's

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Speaker 2: real uncertainty about that. It's a case by case basis, Ryan,

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Speaker 2: so depend on the given permit. But we've got clients,

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Speaker 2: we know, We've got colleague firms around town who have

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Speaker 2: clients trying to work exactly that out. Now, because this

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Speaker 2: covers more than just native species. There's nine hundred native species.

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Speaker 2: This covers four hundred birds three species. That's one hundred

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Speaker 2: and thirty something reptiles, a whole lot of introduced species.

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Speaker 2: So wildlife is not just protected wildlife, it's any wildlife

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Speaker 2: in New Zealand that basically isn't feral or that you

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Speaker 2: would usually think you could hunt. It's a really broad

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Speaker 2: description of what wildlife is.

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Speaker 1: It sounds like a bit of a mess. Does what

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Speaker 1: happen needs to happen? Does the government need to come

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Speaker 1: in and regulate here or change the law in some way?

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Speaker 3: Yes, I think they do, Ryan, twenty nineteen.

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Speaker 2: There was a big decision from the Supreme Court which

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Speaker 2: started this problem, and at that point they probably should

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Speaker 2: have changed the law. Then Doc's been trying to work

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Speaker 2: around it, and that work around on Monday, that door

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Speaker 2: got closed. So the only practical work around for developers

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Speaker 2: who don't want to kill but know that they might

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Speaker 2: and are being responsible and getting a permit, they can't

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Speaker 2: get those kind of permits now and so they can't.

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Speaker 3: Do those works.

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Speaker 1: So does that mean stuff's actually on hold?

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Speaker 3: Certainly that is a real possibility.

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Speaker 2: If you're currently getting if you currently have a works permit,

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Speaker 2: a construction permit to undertake land clearance, you would be

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Speaker 2: looking very hard at whether or not you could do

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Speaker 2: that lawfully.

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Speaker 1: At the moment, that's not a great look when we're

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Speaker 1: trying to get all these overseas investors to come here

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Speaker 1: and do their digging, is it.

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Speaker 2: The timing is very unfortunate. I mean, this hearing was

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Speaker 2: in September. The government wouldn't have known the judgment was

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Speaker 2: coming out this week. They can't influence that, but yes,

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Speaker 2: it came out on Monday. I mean, the government didn't

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Speaker 2: want this. The Department of Conservation have been quite pragmatically

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Speaker 2: coming up with a workaround, but the courts now said

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Speaker 2: that's not allowed under this law. And so if the

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Speaker 2: government wants that pragmatic process to continue, then they're going to.

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Speaker 3: Need to change the law.

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Speaker 1: Okay, interesting, Thank you very much for that. That's Sally mckickney.

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Speaker 1: She's a partner at Simpson Grierson. For more from Hither Duplessy,

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Speaker 1: Allen Drive listen live to news talks. It'd be from

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Speaker 1: four pm weekdays, or follow the podcast on iHeartRadio.