1 00:00:06,667 --> 00:00:10,467 Speaker 1: You're listening to the Weekend Sport Podcast with Jason Fine 2 00:00:10,707 --> 00:00:11,787 Speaker 1: from Newstalk z B. 3 00:00:12,787 --> 00:00:15,707 Speaker 2: David Gower one of the true greats of English cricket 4 00:00:15,747 --> 00:00:18,027 Speaker 2: eighty two hundred and thirty one runs and one hundred 5 00:00:18,027 --> 00:00:20,467 Speaker 2: and seventeen Test matches, fifth on the list of all 6 00:00:20,507 --> 00:00:24,227 Speaker 2: time Test run scorers for England another three thousand, one 7 00:00:24,347 --> 00:00:26,707 Speaker 2: hundred and seventy and one days. He took a liking 8 00:00:26,707 --> 00:00:30,107 Speaker 2: to our bowling, actually in colored clothing three centuries in 9 00:00:30,147 --> 00:00:33,787 Speaker 2: the space of sixteen days against US in January nineteen 10 00:00:33,827 --> 00:00:37,107 Speaker 2: eighty three. Twenty six thousand first class runs in a 11 00:00:37,187 --> 00:00:40,667 Speaker 2: glittering career which spanned nearly two decades. He's now a 12 00:00:40,827 --> 00:00:44,947 Speaker 2: hugely respected cricket broadcaster and analyst and joins us from 13 00:00:44,987 --> 00:00:47,387 Speaker 2: the base in reserve. David, thanks so much for taking 14 00:00:47,387 --> 00:00:50,427 Speaker 2: the time. The first out today, it's been England's, without 15 00:00:50,507 --> 00:00:53,187 Speaker 2: a doubt, a one hundred and fifty five run lead 16 00:00:53,227 --> 00:00:56,147 Speaker 2: which they're starting to build on. How strong is England's 17 00:00:56,147 --> 00:00:57,787 Speaker 2: position in this Test match right now? 18 00:00:58,787 --> 00:01:01,027 Speaker 3: Yeah, well, very good morning, good afternoon. Whatever it is, 19 00:01:01,667 --> 00:01:05,187 Speaker 3: very strong, very strong, leaves enjoy It's only one thing 20 00:01:05,267 --> 00:01:08,507 Speaker 3: they've really enjoyed, is yeah, a month and a half 21 00:01:08,587 --> 00:01:11,987 Speaker 3: and ago they're in Pakistan on dead pitches, turning pitches 22 00:01:12,027 --> 00:01:16,867 Speaker 3: and struggling. Suddenly we come here to New Zealand and hey, 23 00:01:17,547 --> 00:01:20,067 Speaker 3: there's bounce and there's movements and we have a very 24 00:01:20,067 --> 00:01:23,307 Speaker 3: strong steam attack which is enjoying that. And of course 25 00:01:23,347 --> 00:01:26,667 Speaker 3: they have Harry Brooke who somehow manages to make runs 26 00:01:26,667 --> 00:01:30,067 Speaker 3: when no one else does, so it's been a bit 27 00:01:30,107 --> 00:01:33,587 Speaker 3: of a perfect storm for them. I would have to 28 00:01:33,587 --> 00:01:36,227 Speaker 3: say that the way this morning went with a hat 29 00:01:36,307 --> 00:01:39,507 Speaker 3: trick from Gus Atkinson which will cheered him up no 30 00:01:39,707 --> 00:01:42,787 Speaker 3: end as well. It just shows at the moment how 31 00:01:42,827 --> 00:01:46,547 Speaker 3: confident England is and the pressure they're able to exert 32 00:01:46,627 --> 00:01:47,307 Speaker 3: on New Zealand. 33 00:01:48,107 --> 00:01:51,187 Speaker 2: How much of this Morning's and things in effect, the 34 00:01:51,347 --> 00:01:54,387 Speaker 2: entire New Zealand First and Things was down to bed 35 00:01:54,427 --> 00:01:57,547 Speaker 2: batsmanship or was it on the whole really good bowling 36 00:01:57,547 --> 00:02:01,027 Speaker 2: from the likes of Edkinson and cars Well. 37 00:02:01,067 --> 00:02:04,867 Speaker 3: I would I would veer to what's saying was good bowling, 38 00:02:05,627 --> 00:02:07,547 Speaker 3: and the reason for that is this. Do you look 39 00:02:07,587 --> 00:02:11,387 Speaker 3: at yesterday's play, New Zealand had England four down for 40 00:02:11,387 --> 00:02:14,307 Speaker 3: forty or so, give or tape. It was a pitch 41 00:02:14,387 --> 00:02:17,347 Speaker 3: with a bit of movement, a bit of bounce, and 42 00:02:17,387 --> 00:02:20,227 Speaker 3: it looked very much like it would be a bowlder's day. 43 00:02:20,547 --> 00:02:23,147 Speaker 3: Two men, only two men out of whatever he was 44 00:02:23,147 --> 00:02:26,347 Speaker 3: fifteen or so on day one made it look any different. 45 00:02:26,347 --> 00:02:30,627 Speaker 3: Harry Brook is in ridiculously good form and has that 46 00:02:30,947 --> 00:02:34,547 Speaker 3: extra ability which allows him to do things we others 47 00:02:34,707 --> 00:02:37,827 Speaker 3: can't or won't or you wouldn't even dare try. I mean, 48 00:02:37,907 --> 00:02:41,347 Speaker 3: for instance, watching him yesterday morning suddenly deciding to step 49 00:02:41,347 --> 00:02:45,067 Speaker 3: aside and hit hit a length ball over extra cover 50 00:02:45,147 --> 00:02:48,067 Speaker 3: for six. That moment change the dynamic of the day. 51 00:02:48,987 --> 00:02:51,187 Speaker 3: I mean, New Zealand don't have people necessarily who are 52 00:02:51,187 --> 00:02:53,307 Speaker 3: either in the form wall with the confidence to try 53 00:02:53,347 --> 00:02:55,147 Speaker 3: and do that sort of thing when they're up against it. 54 00:02:55,947 --> 00:02:59,987 Speaker 3: Harry Brook somehow decides that he can and will and 55 00:03:00,027 --> 00:03:01,547 Speaker 3: he gets away with him. Mean, there will be days 56 00:03:01,547 --> 00:03:03,267 Speaker 3: in the future where it doesn't quite work for him, 57 00:03:03,267 --> 00:03:06,667 Speaker 3: where that over confidence shall we say we'll work again. 58 00:03:06,787 --> 00:03:10,107 Speaker 3: But yesterday it changed the game. And as I say, 59 00:03:10,147 --> 00:03:13,507 Speaker 3: when two men out of fifteen sixteen batsmen are the 60 00:03:13,547 --> 00:03:15,467 Speaker 3: only ones to make it look like a batting pitch, 61 00:03:15,547 --> 00:03:18,227 Speaker 3: that gives you a clues to the advances the bolder 62 00:03:18,267 --> 00:03:21,027 Speaker 3: should have had and I think England obviously recognized that 63 00:03:21,107 --> 00:03:23,347 Speaker 3: when they came to their term with the ball. And 64 00:03:23,387 --> 00:03:25,507 Speaker 3: at the moment you've got Bright and Cass who is 65 00:03:25,587 --> 00:03:28,467 Speaker 3: leading this England attack. And yet he's only playing as 66 00:03:28,547 --> 00:03:30,907 Speaker 3: you know, he's only got a handful of Test matches 67 00:03:30,907 --> 00:03:33,587 Speaker 3: to his name. But he's big, he's strong, and he's 68 00:03:33,667 --> 00:03:35,467 Speaker 3: loving the fact that these pitches give them a bit 69 00:03:35,467 --> 00:03:35,827 Speaker 3: of bounce. 70 00:03:36,027 --> 00:03:37,427 Speaker 2: I want to come back to cars in a moment, 71 00:03:37,467 --> 00:03:39,587 Speaker 2: because he's come galloping onto the Test scene. But just 72 00:03:39,587 --> 00:03:41,947 Speaker 2: on Harry Brook. How does he compare David to the 73 00:03:41,947 --> 00:03:44,747 Speaker 2: other young English betters you've seen emerge in recent times. 74 00:03:46,507 --> 00:03:48,787 Speaker 3: Well, he's head and shoulders above him many many ways. 75 00:03:48,867 --> 00:03:53,547 Speaker 3: I mean he's the figures are ridiculous away from home, 76 00:03:53,747 --> 00:03:57,747 Speaker 3: especially where he is literally bradman esque and in a 77 00:03:57,787 --> 00:03:59,947 Speaker 3: modern era which is ever so different to Bradmon's era. 78 00:04:01,387 --> 00:04:05,067 Speaker 3: When you're averaging one hundred overseas and with hundreds was 79 00:04:05,067 --> 00:04:07,667 Speaker 3: the eight hundreds to his name? I think overseason have 80 00:04:07,787 --> 00:04:10,587 Speaker 3: read of this small number of Test matches. I said 81 00:04:10,587 --> 00:04:12,347 Speaker 3: to him the other day, actually forget playing at home, 82 00:04:12,427 --> 00:04:15,307 Speaker 3: just go broad and keep smacking hundreds, you know, take 83 00:04:15,467 --> 00:04:19,147 Speaker 3: take the summer off. But he he has this. I 84 00:04:19,187 --> 00:04:22,347 Speaker 3: mean people I spoke to people about saying three years 85 00:04:22,387 --> 00:04:25,867 Speaker 3: ago now watching him at Yorkshire where he plays his 86 00:04:25,907 --> 00:04:30,067 Speaker 3: county cricket, and they were all purring in appreciation of 87 00:04:30,067 --> 00:04:32,547 Speaker 3: his talents. But the big difference is this. I mean, 88 00:04:32,547 --> 00:04:36,627 Speaker 3: there are people who come through with the ability to 89 00:04:36,627 --> 00:04:39,747 Speaker 3: play shots, orthodox shots, some of the new shots as well, 90 00:04:40,707 --> 00:04:43,547 Speaker 3: who look like proper players. He looks like a proper player. 91 00:04:43,587 --> 00:04:47,187 Speaker 3: That added dimension that he is able to play shots 92 00:04:47,227 --> 00:04:50,347 Speaker 3: that in this longer form of the game we only 93 00:04:50,387 --> 00:04:53,027 Speaker 3: normally see where when there's people in color clothing and 94 00:04:53,027 --> 00:04:58,187 Speaker 3: white balls and bright lights and razmataz. I mean the 95 00:04:58,187 --> 00:05:00,027 Speaker 3: good the good news that I would suggest is that 96 00:05:00,107 --> 00:05:02,387 Speaker 3: you know, Test cricket needs all the fans he can get. 97 00:05:03,347 --> 00:05:06,027 Speaker 3: He is the sort of man that will persuade people 98 00:05:06,067 --> 00:05:09,067 Speaker 3: to come wat Test career as well, because it's all 99 00:05:09,147 --> 00:05:12,587 Speaker 3: part of it nowadays. But England as a whole, mean 100 00:05:12,587 --> 00:05:16,627 Speaker 3: England have a style of play at the moment and 101 00:05:16,667 --> 00:05:18,267 Speaker 3: the sort of players who can use it, which means 102 00:05:18,307 --> 00:05:21,907 Speaker 3: they do try and entertain and what they will entertain, 103 00:05:21,947 --> 00:05:23,987 Speaker 3: and when they try and do it not purely for 104 00:05:24,107 --> 00:05:27,027 Speaker 3: entertainment purposes, because it serves to try and win them games. 105 00:05:27,467 --> 00:05:30,107 Speaker 3: But Harry, Harry is just I mean pretty much unique 106 00:05:30,107 --> 00:05:32,507 Speaker 3: at the moment, I suggest in amongst the greats of 107 00:05:32,547 --> 00:05:34,907 Speaker 3: world cricket. I mean, before he's before you can call 108 00:05:34,947 --> 00:05:37,067 Speaker 3: him a great grade, you've got to say, well, it's 109 00:05:37,107 --> 00:05:39,467 Speaker 3: given another five years see what it's like over a 110 00:05:39,467 --> 00:05:42,427 Speaker 3: decade or so. But at the moment he is just 111 00:05:42,507 --> 00:05:43,307 Speaker 3: awesome to watch. 112 00:05:43,627 --> 00:05:46,347 Speaker 2: It's been a tremendous first couple of years for him, 113 00:05:46,467 --> 00:05:49,587 Speaker 2: Brian and Cars. He's only just arrived. This is his 114 00:05:49,947 --> 00:05:52,947 Speaker 2: fourth tist ten for in christ Church, another four here. 115 00:05:53,067 --> 00:05:55,147 Speaker 2: But he's twenty nine years old. Can you tell us 116 00:05:55,147 --> 00:05:57,027 Speaker 2: any more about him? 117 00:05:57,467 --> 00:05:59,827 Speaker 3: Well, there's lots about him. His backstory is obviously a 118 00:05:59,907 --> 00:06:05,627 Speaker 3: South African upbringing. His parents kind of sent him to 119 00:06:05,667 --> 00:06:09,027 Speaker 3: England as an nineteen year old to experience a bit 120 00:06:09,067 --> 00:06:11,307 Speaker 3: of light, you know, out of South Africa, a different country, 121 00:06:11,387 --> 00:06:13,947 Speaker 3: but are growing up. And I saw a picture the 122 00:06:14,027 --> 00:06:15,987 Speaker 3: other day after which came out of the Times of 123 00:06:15,987 --> 00:06:19,627 Speaker 3: London with a nineteen year old Brydon cast with Damadere 124 00:06:19,667 --> 00:06:24,147 Speaker 3: studs arriving in Durham basically, which is not the place 125 00:06:24,187 --> 00:06:27,227 Speaker 3: for Darmindere studs necessarily, don't you know? The good folk 126 00:06:27,267 --> 00:06:31,467 Speaker 3: of Durham takes slightly different view of that. The thing 127 00:06:31,507 --> 00:06:33,427 Speaker 3: as mean as you say, it's actually it's a ten 128 00:06:33,507 --> 00:06:36,587 Speaker 3: year story, a bit of a wild child. When you 129 00:06:36,627 --> 00:06:38,347 Speaker 3: played some club cricket there with the club he playfer 130 00:06:38,467 --> 00:06:41,707 Speaker 3: looked after him. Durham then spotted him on their radar. 131 00:06:41,747 --> 00:06:44,307 Speaker 3: I mean, Durham be very good actually picking up really 132 00:06:44,307 --> 00:06:48,107 Speaker 3: good players, identifying players both batsman and bowlers from all 133 00:06:48,147 --> 00:06:52,307 Speaker 3: sorts of places, actually some of them quite unorthodox. And 134 00:06:52,947 --> 00:06:56,027 Speaker 3: Durham has a very good sort of pace bowling set up. 135 00:06:56,067 --> 00:06:58,107 Speaker 3: I mean lots of other people up there coming through. 136 00:06:58,307 --> 00:07:00,187 Speaker 3: I mean Matthew Pots is another one from Durham who's 137 00:07:00,227 --> 00:07:03,067 Speaker 3: in this England squad who's benefited from that ethos Up there, 138 00:07:03,507 --> 00:07:07,107 Speaker 3: you've got Ben Stokes as another well. I say, good 139 00:07:07,147 --> 00:07:11,547 Speaker 3: Durham man. You know christ Church and Durham, and it's 140 00:07:11,547 --> 00:07:14,867 Speaker 3: an atmosphere which allows you to learn and grow up 141 00:07:14,907 --> 00:07:17,467 Speaker 3: and become what you are. So I mean Cars is 142 00:07:17,507 --> 00:07:21,627 Speaker 3: not exactly an overnight success. But now that he's found 143 00:07:22,067 --> 00:07:25,547 Speaker 3: what works for him, and now that England have found 144 00:07:25,547 --> 00:07:28,587 Speaker 3: someone who will run in hard for a long long 145 00:07:28,627 --> 00:07:31,427 Speaker 3: time each and every day, the one thing they will hope, 146 00:07:31,467 --> 00:07:35,387 Speaker 3: of course, is that the workloads doesn't put extra strain 147 00:07:35,467 --> 00:07:37,387 Speaker 3: on him. But he's strong. He's really strong. He doesn't 148 00:07:37,427 --> 00:07:41,587 Speaker 3: he doesn't winned at all about fast bowling. He loves it, 149 00:07:41,627 --> 00:07:44,667 Speaker 3: obviously when things are going well, everyone loves what they're doing. 150 00:07:45,667 --> 00:07:48,067 Speaker 2: Brendan McCallum is going to take over as England's white 151 00:07:48,067 --> 00:07:51,387 Speaker 2: ball coach next month. He's already revolutionized the way the 152 00:07:51,427 --> 00:07:53,627 Speaker 2: team play the red ball cricket. What do you expect 153 00:07:53,667 --> 00:07:58,387 Speaker 2: from him in the white ball role, David Well, I mean. 154 00:07:58,347 --> 00:08:00,547 Speaker 3: It was a role that he as a player excelled in. 155 00:08:03,187 --> 00:08:08,147 Speaker 3: I think the thing for England with their white ball crickets, 156 00:08:08,187 --> 00:08:11,867 Speaker 3: they've kind of lost confidence since that Worke Cup win 157 00:08:11,947 --> 00:08:16,067 Speaker 3: and I won't mention that again. Since that they have 158 00:08:16,947 --> 00:08:20,907 Speaker 3: I wouldn't want to bring that up. They have lost 159 00:08:20,987 --> 00:08:23,747 Speaker 3: some of the magic that made them by the Barrister 160 00:08:23,867 --> 00:08:28,107 Speaker 3: Margins World Cup winners. And one of the things I 161 00:08:28,107 --> 00:08:30,027 Speaker 3: think he needs to do is take the culture that 162 00:08:30,067 --> 00:08:33,227 Speaker 3: he's promoted to the Test side back to the white 163 00:08:33,307 --> 00:08:37,187 Speaker 3: day side white ball side. Just Butler, for instance, who 164 00:08:37,267 --> 00:08:39,467 Speaker 3: is still one of the world's great white ball players, 165 00:08:40,267 --> 00:08:41,827 Speaker 3: I think could do with just a little bit of 166 00:08:41,867 --> 00:08:47,107 Speaker 3: something to restore confidence in his leadership. And then it's 167 00:08:47,187 --> 00:08:50,067 Speaker 3: just it's the fine tuning. I mean, ours is not 168 00:08:50,067 --> 00:08:53,307 Speaker 3: not all about technicalities, is he No, I mean very 169 00:08:53,387 --> 00:08:56,707 Speaker 3: rarely here and talk about technicalities with the Test side, 170 00:08:56,587 --> 00:09:00,787 Speaker 3: you know, he is about building confidence, about creating an atmosphere, 171 00:09:00,787 --> 00:09:03,827 Speaker 3: creating the rights throughout and see in the rooms, and 172 00:09:03,947 --> 00:09:06,307 Speaker 3: about just sort of trying somehow to get the best 173 00:09:06,387 --> 00:09:08,147 Speaker 3: start of players, which he's managed to do by and 174 00:09:08,267 --> 00:09:13,387 Speaker 3: large very successfully with this Test side. So that's that 175 00:09:13,547 --> 00:09:15,267 Speaker 3: sort of magic he's going to have to try and 176 00:09:15,307 --> 00:09:17,707 Speaker 3: weave for the for the one day side. 177 00:09:18,187 --> 00:09:19,947 Speaker 2: Yeah, we went and see what happens there. Just before 178 00:09:19,987 --> 00:09:22,467 Speaker 2: you go. Do you remember that month in January of 179 00:09:22,547 --> 00:09:24,747 Speaker 2: nineteen eighty three when every time you played against us 180 00:09:24,747 --> 00:09:28,867 Speaker 2: you scored a century and the Blue England kit, Well, 181 00:09:28,907 --> 00:09:32,147 Speaker 2: do you know what I do, I'm not surprised or 182 00:09:32,187 --> 00:09:33,827 Speaker 2: we just said we couldn't get you out. You were 183 00:09:33,867 --> 00:09:37,147 Speaker 2: stroking us to all parts of Melbourne, Brisbane, Adelaide. 184 00:09:37,867 --> 00:09:39,867 Speaker 3: Fine, it's it's very good to be to remember. That 185 00:09:39,907 --> 00:09:42,867 Speaker 3: made me feel make me feel good again. The I 186 00:09:42,907 --> 00:09:45,987 Speaker 3: mean this, that's just I've seen it, you know what 187 00:09:46,027 --> 00:09:47,587 Speaker 3: I mean. I hate to confess I have seen it 188 00:09:47,627 --> 00:09:52,107 Speaker 3: on YouTube. The was the I think the best of 189 00:09:52,107 --> 00:09:57,187 Speaker 3: those was the one fifty in Brisbane, Yes, which was 190 00:09:57,227 --> 00:10:00,027 Speaker 3: just a lovely day where even the knicks went before 191 00:10:00,227 --> 00:10:01,787 Speaker 3: and the ones out in the middle went over the 192 00:10:01,787 --> 00:10:04,587 Speaker 3: boundary and I was staying. In fact, I was with 193 00:10:04,627 --> 00:10:07,227 Speaker 3: friends in Pakistan on the tour or month and a 194 00:10:07,227 --> 00:10:10,707 Speaker 3: half ago, and they, you know, I didn't have to promblem, 195 00:10:10,947 --> 00:10:12,267 Speaker 3: so let's have a look at this. You know, had 196 00:10:12,427 --> 00:10:16,227 Speaker 3: big screen that YouTube. Lo and behold they were clicking 197 00:10:16,227 --> 00:10:19,507 Speaker 3: on the one fifty eight in Brisbane's pretty kind of 198 00:10:19,547 --> 00:10:24,147 Speaker 3: you past past the Scotch. It's it's nice to have 199 00:10:24,267 --> 00:10:26,147 Speaker 3: those memories intact as well as all I can say. 200 00:10:26,147 --> 00:10:28,947 Speaker 3: It's a long time ago, but crowd time, it's croud times. 201 00:10:29,027 --> 00:10:30,147 Speaker 3: I bear they were well. 202 00:10:30,267 --> 00:10:31,947 Speaker 2: I wonderful to jet here, David, thanks for being so 203 00:10:32,107 --> 00:10:33,987 Speaker 2: generous with your time all the bustier. 204 00:10:34,107 --> 00:10:36,227 Speaker 3: Thanks mate, my pleasure. Thank you. 205 00:10:36,387 --> 00:10:39,747 Speaker 1: Take care for more from Weekend Sport with Jason Fine. 206 00:10:39,907 --> 00:10:43,147 Speaker 1: Listen live to news Talks it'd be weekends from midday 207 00:10:43,467 --> 00:10:45,507 Speaker 1: or follow the podcast on iHeartRadio.