1 00:00:00,760 --> 00:00:04,760 Speaker 1: The Huddle with New Zealand Southerby's International Realty, Unique Homes, 2 00:00:04,880 --> 00:00:05,720 Speaker 1: Uniquely for. 3 00:00:05,760 --> 00:00:08,760 Speaker 2: You joining me tonight that the one on I Nely Joseph BUCGANI, 4 00:00:08,840 --> 00:00:11,920 Speaker 2: CEO of Child Fund, Josie good evening. Hello, Hello, and 5 00:00:12,000 --> 00:00:15,160 Speaker 2: Morris Williamson's here too, organd councilor former National Party minister. 6 00:00:15,200 --> 00:00:18,880 Speaker 2: Hey Morris, good to have you on the program. I 7 00:00:18,960 --> 00:00:21,120 Speaker 2: know you are there. We'll start with you. Josie, what 8 00:00:21,160 --> 00:00:23,440 Speaker 2: did you make of our Children's commissioner? 9 00:00:23,960 --> 00:00:26,479 Speaker 3: Well, the problem is it's the old Blair right thing. 10 00:00:26,560 --> 00:00:28,880 Speaker 3: You've got to be tough on crime, tough on the 11 00:00:28,920 --> 00:00:31,760 Speaker 3: causes of crime. So the prob I actually agree with her. 12 00:00:31,800 --> 00:00:33,920 Speaker 3: I don't think this is the right thing partly. I 13 00:00:33,920 --> 00:00:37,040 Speaker 3: mean I work for a child focused organization. I see 14 00:00:37,120 --> 00:00:40,720 Speaker 3: violence against children all the time, and the problem with 15 00:00:40,760 --> 00:00:43,520 Speaker 3: the sort of vigilante approach is it's actually really hard 16 00:00:43,560 --> 00:00:46,919 Speaker 3: to restrain a fifteen year old child or a ten 17 00:00:46,960 --> 00:00:49,879 Speaker 3: year old child or something without knowing how not to 18 00:00:49,960 --> 00:00:52,919 Speaker 3: hurt them. And you know, you've seen things in places 19 00:00:53,000 --> 00:00:56,280 Speaker 3: like the US where we had a vigilante couple a 20 00:00:56,280 --> 00:00:59,040 Speaker 3: couple of years ago shot a guy, an African American 21 00:00:59,040 --> 00:01:01,960 Speaker 3: black guy who they thought had robbed a house. Turns 22 00:01:01,960 --> 00:01:03,680 Speaker 3: out he was completely innocent. They shot him dad, and 23 00:01:03,760 --> 00:01:07,240 Speaker 3: they were saying it was a citizens citizens action. But 24 00:01:07,680 --> 00:01:10,200 Speaker 3: the problem with the interview you just did is that 25 00:01:10,720 --> 00:01:12,720 Speaker 3: you've got to say what you're going to do. You've 26 00:01:12,760 --> 00:01:14,679 Speaker 3: got to be tough on crime before you're tough on 27 00:01:14,720 --> 00:01:17,080 Speaker 3: the causes of crime. Otherwise people don't give you the 28 00:01:17,160 --> 00:01:18,640 Speaker 3: license to do the prices. 29 00:01:18,800 --> 00:01:18,959 Speaker 1: Right. 30 00:01:19,319 --> 00:01:21,560 Speaker 3: So the problem that she's got there she didn't come 31 00:01:21,640 --> 00:01:24,760 Speaker 3: up with what earth the shopkeepers do? And for me, 32 00:01:25,080 --> 00:01:28,119 Speaker 3: you're right, you're right Ryan that if she call the police, 33 00:01:28,160 --> 00:01:30,720 Speaker 3: police aren't going to come straight away. But it has 34 00:01:30,760 --> 00:01:33,160 Speaker 3: to be resourcing the police. And if it's local police, 35 00:01:33,200 --> 00:01:35,600 Speaker 3: if you know that there's a supermarket or retail shop 36 00:01:35,640 --> 00:01:38,600 Speaker 3: that's getting targeted, police should be around that shop all 37 00:01:38,600 --> 00:01:40,760 Speaker 3: the time. We've got to resource the police to do 38 00:01:40,800 --> 00:01:41,200 Speaker 3: that job. 39 00:01:41,360 --> 00:01:41,679 Speaker 4: Morris. 40 00:01:41,760 --> 00:01:44,120 Speaker 2: Back in the day, you didn't have enough comps to 41 00:01:44,560 --> 00:01:48,120 Speaker 2: do any much much of any beat work. But yet 42 00:01:48,280 --> 00:01:50,920 Speaker 2: you had people who were honest, and if something like 43 00:01:50,960 --> 00:01:53,560 Speaker 2: that happened in in a general store, the can have 44 00:01:53,600 --> 00:01:55,320 Speaker 2: been held until the parents arrived. 45 00:01:56,480 --> 00:01:59,400 Speaker 4: Yeah, look, I'm just about to explode with that previous 46 00:01:59,400 --> 00:02:02,640 Speaker 4: interview ever heard such rubbish in my whole bloody line. 47 00:02:02,760 --> 00:02:04,600 Speaker 4: She says, We've got to do a different way, but 48 00:02:04,680 --> 00:02:07,160 Speaker 4: not one item of what you would do, And you 49 00:02:07,200 --> 00:02:09,680 Speaker 4: can't retain some of these are little thugs. Some of 50 00:02:09,720 --> 00:02:12,600 Speaker 4: these people are wandering around with buddy weapons and so on. Now, 51 00:02:12,760 --> 00:02:15,000 Speaker 4: I do know you've got to do it carefully. You 52 00:02:15,040 --> 00:02:18,280 Speaker 4: can't just have a young shop attendant grab someone. That's 53 00:02:18,320 --> 00:02:21,400 Speaker 4: a problem. But if we maybe we could actually license 54 00:02:21,440 --> 00:02:23,720 Speaker 4: some of the security people that they have at these places, 55 00:02:23,919 --> 00:02:26,639 Speaker 4: and if they've got licenses, they can retain some of 56 00:02:26,840 --> 00:02:28,920 Speaker 4: the little wrap bags. But if we just leave it at 57 00:02:28,880 --> 00:02:32,040 Speaker 4: open slather, it just keeps growing, getting worse. And they 58 00:02:32,080 --> 00:02:35,079 Speaker 4: know they actually thumb their nose at the shopkeepers out here. 59 00:02:35,200 --> 00:02:36,920 Speaker 4: They thumb their not and say, you can't touch me, 60 00:02:36,960 --> 00:02:40,120 Speaker 4: you can't do anything. Well, I'm sorry, but I'm completely 61 00:02:40,120 --> 00:02:42,600 Speaker 4: in the opposite camp for the previous interview, you did, 62 00:02:43,160 --> 00:02:44,920 Speaker 4: I think the little basket should. 63 00:02:44,639 --> 00:02:45,160 Speaker 2: Be locked up? 64 00:02:45,400 --> 00:02:48,040 Speaker 3: Yeah, So that the reason this is all happening as well, Morris, 65 00:02:48,080 --> 00:02:49,840 Speaker 3: is because you know a few weeks ago we had 66 00:02:49,880 --> 00:02:52,519 Speaker 3: the police. Someone sent out an email saying, oh, we're 67 00:02:52,520 --> 00:02:56,560 Speaker 3: only going to go to shoplifting above a certain value, right, 68 00:02:56,919 --> 00:03:00,400 Speaker 3: five hundred bucks, And so everybody, retailers went, what the hell, Well, 69 00:03:00,400 --> 00:03:02,079 Speaker 3: what are we going to do about the you know, 70 00:03:02,160 --> 00:03:05,280 Speaker 3: stealing the crunchy bar and the shampoos and whatnot. So 71 00:03:05,320 --> 00:03:07,639 Speaker 3: you've got to answer that question. You're right, and maybe 72 00:03:07,760 --> 00:03:10,200 Speaker 3: training security guards is a good idea, but you've got 73 00:03:10,240 --> 00:03:10,959 Speaker 3: to fund the police. 74 00:03:11,040 --> 00:03:11,280 Speaker 1: You do. 75 00:03:11,720 --> 00:03:13,880 Speaker 2: But the other thing about all of this is being 76 00:03:14,000 --> 00:03:17,320 Speaker 2: poor does not make you immoral. Like I'm sick of this, 77 00:03:17,400 --> 00:03:20,600 Speaker 2: I'm sick of this ship frankly from the left. You 78 00:03:20,600 --> 00:03:23,359 Speaker 2: know that does Just because you are poor, that does 79 00:03:23,400 --> 00:03:25,440 Speaker 2: not mean you will steal something. There are plenty of 80 00:03:25,440 --> 00:03:27,000 Speaker 2: poor people out there who don't know. 81 00:03:27,160 --> 00:03:30,959 Speaker 4: And I heard what you said, go back to the depression. 82 00:03:31,160 --> 00:03:35,080 Speaker 4: Go back to the depression, good lord, standing in line 83 00:03:35,080 --> 00:03:37,520 Speaker 4: and cues for soup, soup, but a soup kitchen with 84 00:03:37,600 --> 00:03:40,000 Speaker 4: no food nothing. Did they go out and you know, 85 00:03:40,080 --> 00:03:42,760 Speaker 4: steal and beat up people and beat up shopkeepers. No, 86 00:03:42,800 --> 00:03:44,960 Speaker 4: they did not. We never had that, and we have 87 00:03:45,040 --> 00:03:47,600 Speaker 4: allowed this. This is a problem we've allowed to happen. 88 00:03:47,840 --> 00:03:50,840 Speaker 4: And now desperate situations call for desperate measures. 89 00:03:50,880 --> 00:03:52,680 Speaker 3: In my view, the one thing I would say you 90 00:03:52,720 --> 00:03:55,120 Speaker 3: said earlier, Ryan, I heard you that you know, not 91 00:03:55,360 --> 00:03:58,200 Speaker 3: arresting these kids or not having consequences for these kids 92 00:03:58,320 --> 00:04:01,200 Speaker 3: leads to anarchy. Absolutely right. I would argue that a 93 00:04:01,280 --> 00:04:03,240 Speaker 3: vigilante culture could also lead to it. 94 00:04:03,400 --> 00:04:05,360 Speaker 2: Yeah, I do agree with that too. So there's a 95 00:04:05,360 --> 00:04:06,880 Speaker 2: fine line to be head somewhere, isn't it. 96 00:04:06,840 --> 00:04:08,800 Speaker 4: But it's not a vigilantic culture if you've got it 97 00:04:08,840 --> 00:04:11,080 Speaker 4: properly managed, if you've got people who have been checked 98 00:04:11,080 --> 00:04:14,280 Speaker 4: in and past. I've got a security code. They are 99 00:04:14,280 --> 00:04:16,640 Speaker 4: people are employed to do so, they know how they work. 100 00:04:16,880 --> 00:04:19,440 Speaker 4: I don't want the kids hurt or want them detained. 101 00:04:19,480 --> 00:04:22,679 Speaker 4: It's not an arrest, it's detained until the police can come. 102 00:04:23,080 --> 00:04:25,240 Speaker 4: The problem I've got out here. The number of shopkeepers 103 00:04:25,279 --> 00:04:27,600 Speaker 4: have said we've called the police and the police said, look, 104 00:04:27,600 --> 00:04:29,600 Speaker 4: you just have to wait. We haven't got anybody available 105 00:04:29,600 --> 00:04:32,280 Speaker 4: for the next few hours. And it's just it's just 106 00:04:32,440 --> 00:04:35,360 Speaker 4: it's literally sending a signal keep doing it because you'll 107 00:04:35,360 --> 00:04:35,960 Speaker 4: get away with it. 108 00:04:36,120 --> 00:04:38,440 Speaker 2: Joseph Bigani Marris Williamson on the Huddle, will take a 109 00:04:38,520 --> 00:04:39,640 Speaker 2: quick break and be back with the. 110 00:04:39,640 --> 00:04:45,000 Speaker 1: Next The Huddle with New Zealand Southeby's International Realty, The 111 00:04:45,080 --> 00:04:47,000 Speaker 1: ones for unmassed results. 112 00:04:48,080 --> 00:04:50,560 Speaker 2: You're on news talks there eleven away from sixth. Great 113 00:04:50,600 --> 00:04:53,279 Speaker 2: to have your company for the huddle tonight. Joseph Bugani, 114 00:04:53,360 --> 00:04:56,960 Speaker 2: the chief executive at ChildFund, and Maurice Williamson, Aorkan councilor 115 00:04:56,960 --> 00:05:00,840 Speaker 2: former National Party minister. The COVID Inquiry Part two coming 116 00:05:00,880 --> 00:05:04,120 Speaker 2: to a cinemon EU. In fact, it started today and 117 00:05:05,160 --> 00:05:07,000 Speaker 2: cinema would be the last place you want to be 118 00:05:07,080 --> 00:05:10,159 Speaker 2: during COVID. Remember that they can't go any cinema, can't 119 00:05:10,200 --> 00:05:14,080 Speaker 2: go anywhere these people anyway, Part two of the inquiry 120 00:05:14,200 --> 00:05:17,719 Speaker 2: underway and the chair confirming to me this morning that 121 00:05:18,680 --> 00:05:22,040 Speaker 2: they are basically going to ask j Cinda Adourn to 122 00:05:22,080 --> 00:05:25,040 Speaker 2: give testimony, but you have to be in New Zealand 123 00:05:25,240 --> 00:05:28,520 Speaker 2: in order for their jurisdiction to stick. Josie, do you 124 00:05:28,640 --> 00:05:31,400 Speaker 2: think she will Well, one, she will clearly be asked, 125 00:05:31,440 --> 00:05:34,400 Speaker 2: But two do you think she will return even if 126 00:05:34,440 --> 00:05:36,520 Speaker 2: it's fine video link to answer questions? 127 00:05:36,920 --> 00:05:39,479 Speaker 3: Well, you'd have to ask the question why wouldn't she 128 00:05:39,960 --> 00:05:44,240 Speaker 3: if she's so pleased with the COVID response? You know, 129 00:05:44,320 --> 00:05:46,919 Speaker 3: and I say that as someone who was supportive of 130 00:05:46,960 --> 00:05:52,360 Speaker 3: the initial lockdown as most people were, but also frustrated 131 00:05:52,520 --> 00:05:56,440 Speaker 3: during COVID and since that we haven't really dug into 132 00:05:56,800 --> 00:05:59,800 Speaker 3: not how decisions were made, but what decisions were made. 133 00:06:00,480 --> 00:06:03,200 Speaker 3: How did they make a decision to close grengrosses and 134 00:06:03,240 --> 00:06:06,480 Speaker 3: butchers but keep the supermarket open. How did they make 135 00:06:06,480 --> 00:06:09,960 Speaker 3: a decision for extended lockdowns? Why did they make a 136 00:06:10,000 --> 00:06:14,479 Speaker 3: decision about MiQ that was so draconian for families. So 137 00:06:15,160 --> 00:06:17,560 Speaker 3: we do want to look at you know, was there 138 00:06:17,600 --> 00:06:19,560 Speaker 3: a better way to do it? And you know we 139 00:06:19,640 --> 00:06:22,000 Speaker 3: have to look all so internationally. I was looking just 140 00:06:22,040 --> 00:06:24,760 Speaker 3: before at the statistics for Sweden where they didn't have 141 00:06:24,800 --> 00:06:28,720 Speaker 3: a lockdown. Now you know Sweden had no lockdown. They 142 00:06:28,760 --> 00:06:32,240 Speaker 3: had they did have a country social distancing and stuff 143 00:06:32,240 --> 00:06:36,240 Speaker 3: like that, but they their COVID deaths were about the 144 00:06:36,240 --> 00:06:39,440 Speaker 3: middle range of all the Scandinavian countries in the Western 145 00:06:39,480 --> 00:06:43,160 Speaker 3: European countries that had lockdowns as well. That's interesting. I'm 146 00:06:43,200 --> 00:06:45,160 Speaker 3: not taking a position on that. I'm saying we should 147 00:06:45,240 --> 00:06:48,520 Speaker 3: examine that for next time to know whether they made 148 00:06:48,520 --> 00:06:50,680 Speaker 3: the right decision or not. Does just Sender need to 149 00:06:50,680 --> 00:06:52,240 Speaker 3: be there? What are we going to hear from her 150 00:06:52,240 --> 00:06:54,480 Speaker 3: that she hasn't already said. I'm not sure that we 151 00:06:54,560 --> 00:06:55,560 Speaker 3: do need her there. 152 00:06:55,760 --> 00:06:56,240 Speaker 2: But if she. 153 00:06:56,320 --> 00:06:59,120 Speaker 3: Really felt confident about the response, it was nothing to 154 00:06:59,160 --> 00:07:00,760 Speaker 3: see here. Why wouldn't you? 155 00:07:00,800 --> 00:07:02,440 Speaker 2: Why wouldn't you? What you got to hide would be 156 00:07:02,440 --> 00:07:04,960 Speaker 2: the thing that their questions would be the interesting part 157 00:07:05,320 --> 00:07:07,800 Speaker 2: for me, and to see where they got with them. Morris. 158 00:07:10,160 --> 00:07:12,880 Speaker 4: This console general in Los Angeles when it hit, and 159 00:07:12,920 --> 00:07:14,720 Speaker 4: I was there for the whole first year of it. 160 00:07:15,120 --> 00:07:18,600 Speaker 4: I saw some heartbreaking family stories who couldn't get home 161 00:07:18,640 --> 00:07:21,200 Speaker 4: to see a dying relative, or kids who couldn't get 162 00:07:21,200 --> 00:07:23,680 Speaker 4: home to see somebody who was really serious. And I 163 00:07:23,760 --> 00:07:27,680 Speaker 4: kept saying, there's no need for this almost random lottery 164 00:07:27,760 --> 00:07:30,960 Speaker 4: MiQ system. And I wrote some software because that's part 165 00:07:30,960 --> 00:07:33,560 Speaker 4: of my training and background. It's writing software. And I 166 00:07:33,600 --> 00:07:36,520 Speaker 4: actually wrote to both to Cinda and to Chippy, and 167 00:07:36,560 --> 00:07:39,240 Speaker 4: I said, I've got a model system where you'll earn 168 00:07:39,320 --> 00:07:41,720 Speaker 4: points for each day you're in the Q waiting. You'll 169 00:07:41,720 --> 00:07:44,360 Speaker 4: bubble to the top eventually know when it is you'll 170 00:07:44,360 --> 00:07:47,400 Speaker 4: get your MiQ slot. We can give double points for 171 00:07:47,440 --> 00:07:50,239 Speaker 4: those who are locked overseas and wanting to get home 172 00:07:50,480 --> 00:07:52,080 Speaker 4: compared to those that are here and wanting to go 173 00:07:52,120 --> 00:07:54,720 Speaker 4: off to Fiji or something. Because were people getting MiQ 174 00:07:55,040 --> 00:07:58,080 Speaker 4: who were here already heating off for a holiday, which 175 00:07:58,120 --> 00:08:00,760 Speaker 4: was nonsense. And I got these led us back, both 176 00:08:00,800 --> 00:08:03,240 Speaker 4: from Decinda and from Chippy. I know, we think the 177 00:08:03,240 --> 00:08:05,920 Speaker 4: system we've got us working perfectly well, Well it wasn't. 178 00:08:06,160 --> 00:08:08,800 Speaker 4: It was a disgrace. I came back in the end 179 00:08:08,800 --> 00:08:10,600 Speaker 4: when I was called back when it was all over, 180 00:08:10,680 --> 00:08:13,840 Speaker 4: and had to do MiQ at the Yepur in a 181 00:08:13,920 --> 00:08:16,440 Speaker 4: hotel for two weeks, and it was hilarious. I was 182 00:08:16,480 --> 00:08:18,840 Speaker 4: tested in Los Angeles. I was tested at WALK in 183 00:08:18,880 --> 00:08:21,160 Speaker 4: the airport when we arrived. I was tested at MiQ 184 00:08:21,600 --> 00:08:25,360 Speaker 4: at the actual hotel, negative all three, and then spent 185 00:08:25,400 --> 00:08:27,840 Speaker 4: two weeks sitting in a hotel while there were fifteen 186 00:08:27,920 --> 00:08:30,080 Speaker 4: thousand cases of it out in the street. 187 00:08:30,640 --> 00:08:32,839 Speaker 3: And I don't want to see people put on trial. 188 00:08:32,880 --> 00:08:35,360 Speaker 3: I don't want the sense of, you know, even just 189 00:08:35,480 --> 00:08:37,240 Speaker 3: Sinda or anyone who was involved in it, because they 190 00:08:37,240 --> 00:08:41,160 Speaker 3: were making difficult decisions with less information than we have now. 191 00:08:41,559 --> 00:08:44,840 Speaker 3: But where you're right, Morris, is that we need to 192 00:08:44,920 --> 00:08:49,319 Speaker 3: understand if they made a decision like MiQ, like you know, 193 00:08:49,440 --> 00:08:52,960 Speaker 3: Grengrosser's closing and Butcher's closing or whatever, but Supermarket's open. 194 00:08:53,600 --> 00:08:56,000 Speaker 3: Was there an alternative because we need to know that 195 00:08:56,040 --> 00:08:58,280 Speaker 3: for next time and then we won't make the same. 196 00:08:58,640 --> 00:08:59,599 Speaker 2: Was there an alternative? 197 00:08:59,600 --> 00:09:02,240 Speaker 4: Why issue with that though, Josie as I gave them what? 198 00:09:02,559 --> 00:09:05,600 Speaker 4: And if you talk to other people from the computer 199 00:09:05,720 --> 00:09:07,839 Speaker 4: society and someone who looked at the software. 200 00:09:07,440 --> 00:09:10,280 Speaker 2: Arian Taylor did the same, Lots of people, lots of 201 00:09:10,280 --> 00:09:11,000 Speaker 2: people came. 202 00:09:11,520 --> 00:09:13,880 Speaker 4: Saw my system and said he really thought it was fantastic. 203 00:09:14,080 --> 00:09:16,559 Speaker 2: And there you go, there you go. Maurice Williams and 204 00:09:16,600 --> 00:09:18,440 Speaker 2: Josie Bagani on the panel tonight. I think for me 205 00:09:18,520 --> 00:09:21,920 Speaker 2: that is the big issue too, is did they Yeah, 206 00:09:21,920 --> 00:09:23,719 Speaker 2: they made a bunch of decisions, they got a bunch 207 00:09:23,720 --> 00:09:25,320 Speaker 2: of stuff right, They've got a bunch of stuff wrong. 208 00:09:25,840 --> 00:09:29,680 Speaker 2: But were we too quick to dismiss the dissenting voices, 209 00:09:29,920 --> 00:09:35,000 Speaker 2: the plan beers, and did we ostracize them to our peril? 210 00:09:35,640 --> 00:09:38,800 Speaker 1: For more from Heather Duplessy Allen Drive, listen live to 211 00:09:38,920 --> 00:09:41,959 Speaker 1: news Talk sai'd Be from four pm weekdays, or follow 212 00:09:42,000 --> 00:09:43,760 Speaker 1: the podcast on iHeartRadio.