1 00:00:07,133 --> 00:00:10,453 Speaker 1: You're listening to the Saturday Morning with Jack team podcast 2 00:00:10,573 --> 00:00:11,693 Speaker 1: from News Talks at be. 3 00:00:12,853 --> 00:00:16,653 Speaker 2: Social media's impact on mental health is being examined in 4 00:00:16,693 --> 00:00:20,973 Speaker 2: a landmark case. Paul stin OUs is our texpert. He's 5 00:00:20,973 --> 00:00:22,813 Speaker 2: got all the details for us this morning, so talk 6 00:00:22,893 --> 00:00:23,813 Speaker 2: to us about this trial. 7 00:00:23,813 --> 00:00:24,293 Speaker 1: Paul. 8 00:00:24,693 --> 00:00:25,413 Speaker 2: Yeah, this is. 9 00:00:25,373 --> 00:00:27,613 Speaker 3: A This is a big one, Jack, because usually all 10 00:00:27,653 --> 00:00:29,973 Speaker 3: these tech companies kind of settle some of this stuff 11 00:00:29,973 --> 00:00:33,413 Speaker 3: outside of court, but or in arbitration. To be honest, 12 00:00:33,693 --> 00:00:36,333 Speaker 3: this one has gone to trial, is in trial at 13 00:00:36,373 --> 00:00:39,733 Speaker 3: the moment and has a jury. So this is like 14 00:00:39,813 --> 00:00:42,093 Speaker 3: a you know, this is really trying to put these 15 00:00:42,093 --> 00:00:46,653 Speaker 3: social platforms now in front of the population to see 16 00:00:46,733 --> 00:00:49,973 Speaker 3: kind of what the population thinks about what social media's 17 00:00:50,053 --> 00:00:53,773 Speaker 3: impact or responsibility I guess is when it comes to 18 00:00:53,813 --> 00:00:56,973 Speaker 3: mental health and about the content they choose to show. Right. 19 00:00:57,013 --> 00:00:59,533 Speaker 3: A couple of interesting things to note. One is that 20 00:00:59,773 --> 00:01:04,613 Speaker 3: typically these social media companies have got around content censorship 21 00:01:04,733 --> 00:01:07,613 Speaker 3: and taking content down and oderation and all of this stuff, 22 00:01:07,613 --> 00:01:10,533 Speaker 3: because they say, where does the platform you know, just 23 00:01:10,613 --> 00:01:13,413 Speaker 3: like if you were a file service. It's kind of 24 00:01:13,413 --> 00:01:15,533 Speaker 3: like the Kim dot Com thing, right, we can't control 25 00:01:15,573 --> 00:01:18,013 Speaker 3: what you choose to put on our file service, right, 26 00:01:18,693 --> 00:01:21,693 Speaker 3: and we you know, we maybe we shouldn't even be 27 00:01:21,733 --> 00:01:24,413 Speaker 3: looking at you. Use the service if you like it, 28 00:01:24,533 --> 00:01:26,813 Speaker 3: use it. If you don't, you don't. So this is 29 00:01:26,853 --> 00:01:30,453 Speaker 3: interesting because again it's gone to trial and it's also 30 00:01:30,573 --> 00:01:34,253 Speaker 3: starting to test that kind of fery in that defense. 31 00:01:35,293 --> 00:01:37,253 Speaker 3: And so they've got the big players there. This week, 32 00:01:37,373 --> 00:01:41,133 Speaker 3: Meta CEO Mark Zuckerberg, who obviously runs Instagram, Facebook, the works. 33 00:01:41,453 --> 00:01:44,493 Speaker 3: He testified took questions for six hours. 34 00:01:44,213 --> 00:01:48,013 Speaker 2: Which, right, it's a long time. It's a long time. 35 00:01:47,853 --> 00:01:51,293 Speaker 3: In the stand. And really what's at the center of 36 00:01:51,293 --> 00:01:54,333 Speaker 3: this case for the prosecution is that there are documents 37 00:01:54,333 --> 00:01:56,613 Speaker 3: that show that the company had a goal to increase 38 00:01:56,693 --> 00:02:00,093 Speaker 3: the time that ten year olds spent on Instagram. Now 39 00:02:00,173 --> 00:02:03,253 Speaker 3: that's important because the app is supposed to officially be 40 00:02:03,373 --> 00:02:07,053 Speaker 3: for people thirteen and above. So they're saying the company 41 00:02:07,093 --> 00:02:09,253 Speaker 3: is now trying to do something it said it wasn't 42 00:02:09,293 --> 00:02:13,773 Speaker 3: really supposed to be doing. Mark Zuckerberg testified this week 43 00:02:13,813 --> 00:02:17,813 Speaker 3: and said, well, teens use the app. Didn't really mention 44 00:02:17,893 --> 00:02:19,973 Speaker 3: the fact about the ten, eleven, twelve year olds, right, 45 00:02:20,013 --> 00:02:22,613 Speaker 3: But thirteen and above they do use the app. They 46 00:02:22,653 --> 00:02:25,453 Speaker 3: account for a very small amount of the revenue one 47 00:02:25,453 --> 00:02:27,933 Speaker 3: percent is what he said. So they're not really going 48 00:02:28,013 --> 00:02:30,173 Speaker 3: after them in a sense of revenue, but they do 49 00:02:30,213 --> 00:02:33,493 Speaker 3: want them using the service. But he also talked about 50 00:02:33,493 --> 00:02:36,253 Speaker 3: something that's we've talked about for a really long time, 51 00:02:36,253 --> 00:02:40,013 Speaker 3: and especially about the Australian rules with the band with 52 00:02:40,093 --> 00:02:43,973 Speaker 3: kids using social media. He made the point in court 53 00:02:44,253 --> 00:02:48,173 Speaker 3: under oath that it is really difficult to identify the 54 00:02:48,173 --> 00:02:52,573 Speaker 3: accounts of children because there's no driver's license, there's no passport. 55 00:02:52,693 --> 00:02:56,013 Speaker 3: They can just simply lie about your age. You just 56 00:02:56,093 --> 00:02:58,413 Speaker 3: you know, what is your birthday, You put in the month, 57 00:02:58,453 --> 00:03:00,133 Speaker 3: you put in the day, and then you just you know, 58 00:03:00,253 --> 00:03:02,773 Speaker 3: clock the years back a couple of years, right, suddenly 59 00:03:02,813 --> 00:03:05,973 Speaker 3: you're thirteen or you're fifteen or whatever it is you 60 00:03:05,973 --> 00:03:08,973 Speaker 3: want to be. Yeah, and so it's so difficult for 61 00:03:09,013 --> 00:03:12,293 Speaker 3: that to be enforced. And this is just going to 62 00:03:12,293 --> 00:03:14,573 Speaker 3: be a fascinating case. I guess it's kind of like 63 00:03:15,093 --> 00:03:20,293 Speaker 3: in the analogue world, is thinking, do you know the 64 00:03:20,733 --> 00:03:24,293 Speaker 3: women's magazines photo shopping things like they did back in 65 00:03:24,333 --> 00:03:27,613 Speaker 3: the nineties, early two thousands, you know, is that are 66 00:03:27,613 --> 00:03:30,093 Speaker 3: they responsible for the mental health? Because that's what this 67 00:03:30,133 --> 00:03:32,053 Speaker 3: comes back to, right, Yeah, this is about a twenty 68 00:03:32,133 --> 00:03:35,413 Speaker 3: year old woman who has mental health struggles and says 69 00:03:35,453 --> 00:03:41,973 Speaker 3: that they were caused by Instagram and YouTube. So where 70 00:03:42,013 --> 00:03:46,693 Speaker 3: do you draw the line around individual responsibility, around platform 71 00:03:46,733 --> 00:03:48,893 Speaker 3: involvement and responsibility. And as they say, this is a 72 00:03:48,973 --> 00:03:51,573 Speaker 3: jury trial, so this is this is going to be 73 00:03:51,693 --> 00:03:55,493 Speaker 3: the people of America deciding which way this goes. 74 00:03:55,573 --> 00:03:57,333 Speaker 2: Yeah, and the fact that it's a jury trial, and 75 00:03:58,013 --> 00:04:00,373 Speaker 2: you sort of get the sense that public sentiment is 76 00:04:00,413 --> 00:04:03,933 Speaker 2: starting to shift. Shortly, I saw Jonathan Hight, who's that 77 00:04:03,973 --> 00:04:05,693 Speaker 2: you know, the sort of the godfather of the get 78 00:04:05,773 --> 00:04:09,573 Speaker 2: kids off Phone movement. He was saying this week that 79 00:04:09,613 --> 00:04:11,373 Speaker 2: he thinks we're at a kind of tipping point moment. 80 00:04:11,413 --> 00:04:14,093 Speaker 2: He reckons that by the end of the year, most countries, 81 00:04:14,093 --> 00:04:17,853 Speaker 2: probably not the US, but most kind of developed economies, 82 00:04:17,933 --> 00:04:21,373 Speaker 2: you know, the likes of Japan, South Korea, New Zealand, Australia, 83 00:04:21,413 --> 00:04:24,733 Speaker 2: the UK, Europe, et cetera. He reckons we'll be moving 84 00:04:24,773 --> 00:04:28,173 Speaker 2: to get teens off phones at least until they're sixteen, 85 00:04:28,333 --> 00:04:30,773 Speaker 2: if they haven't banned them outright already like Australia has. 86 00:04:30,773 --> 00:04:31,773 Speaker 2: So it's going to be very interesting. 87 00:04:31,853 --> 00:04:33,333 Speaker 3: Well, there could be a movement too with all this 88 00:04:33,493 --> 00:04:36,253 Speaker 3: rise of AI about human can Yeah, and so a 89 00:04:36,293 --> 00:04:38,413 Speaker 3: bit of a banishment of the technology stuff and say 90 00:04:38,413 --> 00:04:40,133 Speaker 3: well hang on, I'll slow down here for a second. 91 00:04:40,213 --> 00:04:42,173 Speaker 2: Yeah yeah yeah, but it's a kind of counteraction. Yeah 92 00:04:42,213 --> 00:04:45,813 Speaker 2: yeah yeah. Very interesting. Thanks Paul. There's Paul Stanhouse our textbook. 93 00:04:46,333 --> 00:04:49,453 Speaker 1: For more from Saturday Morning with Jack Tame. Listen live 94 00:04:49,533 --> 00:04:52,693 Speaker 1: to News talksz'd B from nine am Saturday, or follow 95 00:04:52,733 --> 00:04:54,333 Speaker 1: the podcast on iHeartRadio.