1 00:00:00,080 --> 00:00:02,080 Speaker 1: What a wake up call in the Tasmano. The Chinese 2 00:00:02,160 --> 00:00:04,920 Speaker 1: arrivee start firing and tell no one it's not illegal. 3 00:00:05,080 --> 00:00:07,680 Speaker 1: It's an international waters under international law. But the old 4 00:00:07,840 --> 00:00:09,680 Speaker 1: bee polite part seems to be out the door. And 5 00:00:09,720 --> 00:00:11,720 Speaker 1: that's before we get to the details of the Cook's arrangement. 6 00:00:11,920 --> 00:00:14,600 Speaker 1: Defense Minister Judith Collins is with us. Very good morning 7 00:00:14,600 --> 00:00:14,800 Speaker 1: to you. 8 00:00:15,480 --> 00:00:16,480 Speaker 2: Oh good morning mate. 9 00:00:16,680 --> 00:00:20,480 Speaker 1: Is it acceptable to behave the way they have, Well, 10 00:00:20,480 --> 00:00:20,840 Speaker 1: it is. 11 00:00:20,960 --> 00:00:25,560 Speaker 2: Under the UN laws, but it is always best to 12 00:00:25,600 --> 00:00:28,600 Speaker 2: give a bit more notice when it comes to lie firing, 13 00:00:28,640 --> 00:00:34,080 Speaker 2: particularly when their civil aviation flights and routes cross that area. 14 00:00:34,760 --> 00:00:37,720 Speaker 1: Is the message more for Australia around Taiwan and they're 15 00:00:37,760 --> 00:00:39,559 Speaker 1: exercise than us or we don't. 16 00:00:39,320 --> 00:00:42,839 Speaker 2: Know that, Well, we don't know. But what we do 17 00:00:43,040 --> 00:00:47,360 Speaker 2: know is that New Zealand and Australia we engage in 18 00:00:48,320 --> 00:00:51,600 Speaker 2: going through the Taiwan Straits in the south trying to 19 00:00:51,640 --> 00:00:55,560 Speaker 2: see but that is because we are also exiting and transiting. 20 00:00:55,760 --> 00:00:59,400 Speaker 2: New Zealand was from New in sanctions monitoring work regarding 21 00:00:59,400 --> 00:01:02,760 Speaker 2: North Korea. So there's not many other ways out of 22 00:01:02,800 --> 00:01:06,679 Speaker 2: that area except through that particular waterway. So this is 23 00:01:06,760 --> 00:01:09,720 Speaker 2: quite an entirely different activity, and we certainly haven't done 24 00:01:09,720 --> 00:01:12,440 Speaker 2: any live firing in Northeast Asia. 25 00:01:12,560 --> 00:01:14,679 Speaker 1: Will we continue to do that? And if we continue 26 00:01:14,720 --> 00:01:16,559 Speaker 1: to do that, will that be seen given what's happened 27 00:01:16,600 --> 00:01:17,959 Speaker 1: over the weekend as provocative. 28 00:01:19,080 --> 00:01:21,160 Speaker 2: Well, of course, we will continue to do what we're 29 00:01:21,200 --> 00:01:24,280 Speaker 2: supposed to do, which is to help the United Nations 30 00:01:24,640 --> 00:01:29,800 Speaker 2: monitor sanctions against North Korea, So of course we will continue. 31 00:01:30,080 --> 00:01:32,600 Speaker 2: We will also continue not to do live firing in 32 00:01:32,600 --> 00:01:35,240 Speaker 2: that area and will be very careful to make sure 33 00:01:35,240 --> 00:01:37,400 Speaker 2: that everyone knows what we're doing. And there we are. 34 00:01:37,680 --> 00:01:39,839 Speaker 1: Did Penny one get anything out of the Foreign Minister 35 00:01:39,880 --> 00:01:41,520 Speaker 1: at the G twenty? Do you know? And has anyone 36 00:01:41,560 --> 00:01:41,880 Speaker 1: asked it? 37 00:01:43,360 --> 00:01:46,119 Speaker 2: Now? I'm not sure that I can tell you that. 38 00:01:46,200 --> 00:01:50,360 Speaker 2: I've been talking instead with the Australian Defense Minister and 39 00:01:50,440 --> 00:01:53,840 Speaker 2: Deputy Prime Minister Richard Mars. So no, Penny was as 40 00:01:53,960 --> 00:01:56,200 Speaker 2: very different than mister Peters area. 41 00:01:56,280 --> 00:01:58,600 Speaker 1: Okay, as Martin Miles is left, you'll be in the 42 00:01:58,640 --> 00:01:59,920 Speaker 1: air going to Washington at the moment. 43 00:02:01,440 --> 00:02:03,800 Speaker 2: Well, there's a lot going on at the moment, and 44 00:02:03,880 --> 00:02:05,960 Speaker 2: of course everyone is trying to make sure that we 45 00:02:06,040 --> 00:02:10,000 Speaker 2: get to talk with the new administration in the US. 46 00:02:10,080 --> 00:02:13,280 Speaker 2: Just as we do with other important partners. 47 00:02:13,639 --> 00:02:15,800 Speaker 1: And what did Miles tell you is are they worried? 48 00:02:17,360 --> 00:02:19,440 Speaker 2: Well, I think that they are very much like us. 49 00:02:19,440 --> 00:02:21,959 Speaker 2: They're aware of the situation. I don't think that anyone's 50 00:02:21,960 --> 00:02:24,919 Speaker 2: particularly worried. We're just aware that this is a new 51 00:02:25,000 --> 00:02:29,320 Speaker 2: thing that we've seen, which is an incredibly capable task 52 00:02:29,360 --> 00:02:33,079 Speaker 2: group coming down into an area where we haven't seen 53 00:02:33,120 --> 00:02:37,239 Speaker 2: them before, and where they've undertaken live firing with only 54 00:02:37,400 --> 00:02:38,520 Speaker 2: a few hours notice. 55 00:02:38,600 --> 00:02:40,880 Speaker 1: Some suggesting I read over the weekend that part of 56 00:02:40,919 --> 00:02:43,160 Speaker 1: the deal with the Solomons, this is them parking themselves 57 00:02:43,200 --> 00:02:46,880 Speaker 1: in this part of the world in a more present way. 58 00:02:47,000 --> 00:02:47,800 Speaker 1: This is the future. 59 00:02:48,840 --> 00:02:50,960 Speaker 2: Well, I think we need to be very aware that 60 00:02:52,160 --> 00:02:57,400 Speaker 2: there is now more geostrategic competition in the Indo Pacific region. 61 00:02:57,800 --> 00:03:00,800 Speaker 2: You've seen it in the Cooks. You've said the Solomon's 62 00:03:01,200 --> 00:03:04,679 Speaker 2: quite clearly, this is not fifteen years ago. Things have 63 00:03:04,840 --> 00:03:05,280 Speaker 2: moved on. 64 00:03:05,600 --> 00:03:08,080 Speaker 1: Is this the Americans going to do anything about this? 65 00:03:08,160 --> 00:03:10,000 Speaker 1: Do you think? I mean, they must be looking at 66 00:03:10,040 --> 00:03:11,720 Speaker 1: this with some level of concern, mustn't they? 67 00:03:13,000 --> 00:03:15,359 Speaker 2: Well, I think they and other countries of the world 68 00:03:15,440 --> 00:03:17,640 Speaker 2: are looking at this and saying this is a new development, 69 00:03:18,200 --> 00:03:22,280 Speaker 2: and nobody wants to overreact, nobody wants to get to exciteable. 70 00:03:22,360 --> 00:03:25,040 Speaker 2: Everyone wants to be very calm and to understand that 71 00:03:25,800 --> 00:03:29,200 Speaker 2: while China is completely compliant with the UN con each 72 00:03:29,280 --> 00:03:32,280 Speaker 2: the law, to see, it is always quite good to 73 00:03:32,320 --> 00:03:35,320 Speaker 2: give people notice, particularly when their civil aviation changes and 74 00:03:35,400 --> 00:03:36,960 Speaker 2: flights having to be diverted. 75 00:03:37,240 --> 00:03:39,520 Speaker 1: Indeed, and this also deptails in with the Cooks deal, 76 00:03:39,520 --> 00:03:41,880 Speaker 1: which we've got some detail on over the weekend. So 77 00:03:41,920 --> 00:03:44,760 Speaker 1: the Chinese are here permanently on an ongoing basis in 78 00:03:44,920 --> 00:03:48,640 Speaker 1: general terms, How worried is the government about all of this? 79 00:03:50,880 --> 00:03:53,560 Speaker 2: Why don't say I'm We're not worried. What we are 80 00:03:53,840 --> 00:03:57,800 Speaker 2: very aware and the Cooks is exactly the situation that 81 00:03:58,000 --> 00:04:01,160 Speaker 2: we've long said, which is that it about sea bed mining. 82 00:04:01,840 --> 00:04:05,400 Speaker 2: So the hole in the specific region run Alum, the 83 00:04:05,440 --> 00:04:12,560 Speaker 2: fire is essentially a treasury of resources, particularly on the seabed, 84 00:04:12,880 --> 00:04:15,240 Speaker 2: and that's what this is all about. As you can see. 85 00:04:15,600 --> 00:04:17,760 Speaker 1: The review that you're conducting and have been for a 86 00:04:17,800 --> 00:04:20,320 Speaker 1: sustained period of time. When's that going to be seen 87 00:04:20,320 --> 00:04:21,040 Speaker 1: and when are we going to. 88 00:04:21,000 --> 00:04:24,880 Speaker 2: Do something in the very near future, Mike, And from 89 00:04:24,880 --> 00:04:29,080 Speaker 2: my point of view that it makes it even more important. 90 00:04:29,120 --> 00:04:33,479 Speaker 2: I mean, obviously we're talking about a substantial increase for 91 00:04:33,640 --> 00:04:37,240 Speaker 2: defense and a plan to actually say this is what 92 00:04:37,240 --> 00:04:40,360 Speaker 2: we're doing, and here is the money for it. That 93 00:04:40,920 --> 00:04:43,320 Speaker 2: is quite different from what we've seen for quite a 94 00:04:43,320 --> 00:04:43,840 Speaker 2: long time. 95 00:04:43,960 --> 00:04:46,599 Speaker 1: Good and not a moment too soon. Having said that, 96 00:04:46,680 --> 00:04:50,720 Speaker 1: we have no money and in military is expensive, it's billions. 97 00:04:51,000 --> 00:04:53,400 Speaker 1: Do we have billions? Will we spend billions? Is this 98 00:04:53,440 --> 00:04:54,400 Speaker 1: a billion dollar thing? 99 00:04:55,000 --> 00:05:00,400 Speaker 2: Well? Everything in defense is expensive, and clearly there are 100 00:05:00,440 --> 00:05:04,440 Speaker 2: billions involved. It is simply not credible for us to 101 00:05:04,520 --> 00:05:08,840 Speaker 2: expect defense to keep on going after they've had you know, 102 00:05:09,120 --> 00:05:12,600 Speaker 2: is centrally thirty five years of every government hoping that 103 00:05:12,680 --> 00:05:14,720 Speaker 2: everything's just going to be fine and they wouldn't need 104 00:05:14,760 --> 00:05:19,480 Speaker 2: to do anything. It is an enormous task to rebuild, 105 00:05:19,760 --> 00:05:21,320 Speaker 2: and our people are doing it. 106 00:05:21,480 --> 00:05:23,080 Speaker 1: And so are you going to And I know you're 107 00:05:23,080 --> 00:05:24,440 Speaker 1: not going to give it away because it's budgets and 108 00:05:24,480 --> 00:05:26,560 Speaker 1: all that sort of stuff. But is it? Is it 109 00:05:26,640 --> 00:05:29,760 Speaker 1: billions over many, many, many years? In other words, it's 110 00:05:29,760 --> 00:05:31,479 Speaker 1: not the hero and now, or is it billions right 111 00:05:31,520 --> 00:05:34,400 Speaker 1: here right now? We've got to do something fairly big. 112 00:05:35,360 --> 00:05:38,120 Speaker 2: It's a sustained effort as what I can tell you, 113 00:05:38,240 --> 00:05:40,880 Speaker 2: and it is a lot of money, It's a heap 114 00:05:40,920 --> 00:05:45,080 Speaker 2: of money. But it will also we also know that 115 00:05:45,120 --> 00:05:46,880 Speaker 2: the world is changing and we also need to be 116 00:05:47,320 --> 00:05:49,320 Speaker 2: through look at that again and say do we need 117 00:05:49,360 --> 00:05:51,280 Speaker 2: to do more again so. 118 00:05:51,279 --> 00:05:54,000 Speaker 1: That presumably blows out the debt and the surplus is gone. 119 00:05:54,600 --> 00:05:56,360 Speaker 1: This will have major budget relation. 120 00:05:57,680 --> 00:05:59,719 Speaker 2: No, I think it's it's actually about how we do 121 00:05:59,800 --> 00:06:04,880 Speaker 2: these things and being very aware that without national security 122 00:06:04,920 --> 00:06:07,760 Speaker 2: there is no economic security. There is nothing else. 123 00:06:08,480 --> 00:06:11,120 Speaker 1: And I'm not arguing with you it's a good thing 124 00:06:11,160 --> 00:06:12,840 Speaker 1: and as well overdo. All I'm saying is that if 125 00:06:12,839 --> 00:06:14,960 Speaker 1: you're going to suddenly announce billions of dollars in defense, 126 00:06:15,000 --> 00:06:16,719 Speaker 1: that wasn't what we were thinking of, and then you 127 00:06:16,760 --> 00:06:18,800 Speaker 1: haven't got a surplus and you're suddenly the debts up 128 00:06:18,800 --> 00:06:20,120 Speaker 1: through the roof, this is what we're going to see 129 00:06:20,120 --> 00:06:21,960 Speaker 1: in the budget. Is it that dramatic or not. 130 00:06:23,080 --> 00:06:25,240 Speaker 2: I don't think you'd say it was that dramatic. I 131 00:06:25,279 --> 00:06:28,680 Speaker 2: do think, however, that because most of the cap items 132 00:06:28,760 --> 00:06:33,000 Speaker 2: take some time, a hit from ordering to getting delivered 133 00:06:33,040 --> 00:06:36,240 Speaker 2: and painful, but it is very important to remember that 134 00:06:37,200 --> 00:06:40,760 Speaker 2: the way to end up spending due to the Center 135 00:06:40,760 --> 00:06:43,840 Speaker 2: of your budget or GDP on defense is to end 136 00:06:43,920 --> 00:06:46,479 Speaker 2: up in a situation where you haven't spent a decent 137 00:06:46,520 --> 00:06:49,760 Speaker 2: amount beforehand and you do not have anything in the kitty. 138 00:06:50,320 --> 00:06:52,120 Speaker 2: So we're very aware of it. 139 00:06:52,200 --> 00:06:55,480 Speaker 1: All right, appreciate it very much. Happy birthday both, Oh 140 00:06:55,600 --> 00:06:56,160 Speaker 1: think you might. 141 00:06:56,240 --> 00:06:56,960 Speaker 2: That's so kind of you. 142 00:06:57,120 --> 00:07:02,040 Speaker 1: No worries, Big Dave's. For more from the My Asking Breakfast, 143 00:07:02,279 --> 00:07:05,600 Speaker 1: listen live to news Talks at B from six a m. Weekdays, 144 00:07:05,839 --> 00:07:07,880 Speaker 1: or follow the podcast on iHeartRadio.