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Speaker 1: You're listening to a podcast from News Talk sed B.

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Speaker 1: Follow this and our wide range of podcasts now on iHeartRadio.

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Speaker 2: Hello it is Podcast three eleven Matt and Tyler Full

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Speaker 2: Show Podcasts for the nineteenth of March twenty twenty six.

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Speaker 2: Interesting show. We ended up doing a couple of hours

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Speaker 2: talking about people's experiences on magic mushrooms, psilocybin and these

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Speaker 2: new trials, these clinical trials that are showing hugely positive

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Speaker 2: results and dealing with depression. But of course it is

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Speaker 2: a complicated topic.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, fascinating callers, fascinating discussion.

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Speaker 2: Kind of never got where I wanted it to go,

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Speaker 2: but that's life.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, we'll bring it back. So many people want to

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Speaker 3: have a chat about it.

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Speaker 2: I'll go home and deal with the depression of another

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Speaker 2: failed radio show and get some solocybin. Yeah maybe so.

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Speaker 3: Download subscribing, give us a review.

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Speaker 2: And give the taste kivy. All right, seem busy to

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Speaker 2: let you go, Love you love, big stories.

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Speaker 1: The leak issues, the big trends and everything in between.

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Speaker 1: It's Matt Heath and Tyler Adams Afternoon squif Shoulder News

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Speaker 1: Talk said.

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Speaker 3: Be a very good afternoon to you. Welcome into Thursday show.

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Speaker 3: Hope you having a great day so far, and thanks

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Speaker 3: very much for giving us a listen. How you doing, Matt?

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Speaker 3: I am doing so very well, Tyler.

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Speaker 2: As I said before, I'm still high in the buzz

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Speaker 2: of how good the movie project Hail Mary one.

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Speaker 3: I'm looking forward to seeing now go to it this weekend,

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Speaker 3: ladies and gentlemen.

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Speaker 2: Bit of a sca escapism.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, good old quality, beautifully shot, smart, feel good, action packed,

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Speaker 4: character driven movie.

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Speaker 3: Nicely said mate, I'm in amen, get down to the

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Speaker 3: cinemas and get a nukstep.

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Speaker 2: I loved it.

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Speaker 3: Yeah. Hey, Now, just before we get to what's on

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Speaker 3: the show today, we had a great discussion you stay

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Speaker 3: after three about running tips for getting back into running,

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Speaker 3: what do you need to do? And yesterday and as

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Speaker 3: you mentioned, we signed up for the Pillar to Poe

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Speaker 3: down in the Beautiful Topoor, which is running around a

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Speaker 3: seven point three k loopers many times as you can,

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Speaker 3: and teams really looking forward to that. But I decided

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Speaker 3: last night I'm going to get into my training early

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Speaker 3: yep and try and incorporate some of the tips that

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Speaker 3: we got through in O eight hundred and eighty ten

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Speaker 3: eighty and the one from you, in particular, tucking your butt.

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Speaker 2: Tuck your butt.

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Speaker 3: So I managed to do my seven seven k run

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Speaker 3: round the beautiful Mount Albert. I did tuck in the bum.

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Speaker 3: I didn't think it was going to make a stick

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Speaker 3: a difference, and I'm sorry mate, it did. I felt

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Speaker 3: that that instant rise in my posture. I felt more

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Speaker 3: confident in my ability to get through this thing.

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Speaker 2: Keep your head up as well.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I slouched in the last couple of came I've

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Speaker 3: got to say, it's hard to keep it going.

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Speaker 2: Form disappears when you get tired just when you need it.

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Speaker 2: That's one of the problems with running. But keep your

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Speaker 2: head sort of up, so it's you've got a better

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Speaker 2: pathway for the oxygen to get in there.

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Speaker 3: Okay, yep, I'll incorporate there for next time.

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Speaker 2: Really concentrate on your breathing. What kind of time did

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Speaker 2: you do for seven point two?

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Speaker 3: Now here's where I need people to say if this

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Speaker 3: is a good thing or a bad thing? Nine two

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Speaker 3: nine two, So seven k on the dot forty four

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Speaker 3: minutes in twenty seven seconds.

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Speaker 2: What was your per k time?

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Speaker 3: The per k time was just over five minutes.

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Speaker 2: That's that's fast.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I thought that was pretty good. That's a good pace, mate,

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Speaker 3: thank you, thank you, so forty four minutes all up?

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Speaker 3: I mean the so that wasn't my average, to be fair,

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Speaker 3: that was my first couple of k, and then the

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Speaker 3: average started and started to go down. I was looking

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Speaker 3: at the total. The average I didn't want to look

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Speaker 3: at because when.

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Speaker 2: I ask you what your speed was over the run,

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Speaker 2: that can't be the first k. The first k is

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Speaker 2: going to be faster than last k. Actually, what you

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Speaker 2: should do, Tyler, is find a speed you're comfort running

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Speaker 2: at and stay at that speed.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, and that's what I didn't do. So I went

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Speaker 3: out the gates for the first couple of k and

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Speaker 3: then dropped off considerably.

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Speaker 2: That's fine.

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Speaker 3: Forty four minutes a seven k.

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Speaker 2: That's pretty good.

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Speaker 3: It's a good start.

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Speaker 2: It's fine. We'll keep it going about the speed. It's

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Speaker 2: about doing it.

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Speaker 3: Yep, it's going to go well down at pillar Topoe

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Speaker 3: in about June. Right on to today's show, after three o'clock,

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Speaker 3: we want to have a chat about rugby clubs around

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Speaker 3: New Zealand. They are increasingly removing fees for junior players

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Speaker 3: to make the sport more accessible and boost declining participation,

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Speaker 3: So the mover is gaining momentum as clubs respond to

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Speaker 3: those falling numbers with costs, identify it as a barrier

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Speaker 3: preventing kids from playing. Clubs hope they're going fee free

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Speaker 3: will attract more children, compete with other sports, and ensure

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Speaker 3: rugby remains inclusive and popular. Is that why people aren't

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Speaker 3: signing up for rugby or other sports?

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Speaker 2: Is it the fees? The fees are never that bad

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Speaker 2: for sport, are they. I mean, the fees for rowing

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Speaker 2: are yeah, right up there, But for most sports. I

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Speaker 2: don't think it's the fees, is it.

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Speaker 3: I've got no idea. What would you pay per year

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Speaker 3: at the very young level, say five to ten years old?

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Speaker 3: A couple hundred bucks a year a season.

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Speaker 2: If that may yeah, way less than that. Yeah, Ah,

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Speaker 2: the fees aren't the problem.

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Speaker 3: So keen to get your thoughts on that. Is that

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Speaker 3: why there's falling participation at grassroots rugby? And what is

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Speaker 3: the best way to get your kids into sport and

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Speaker 3: where they playing? Looking forward to your thoughts after three

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Speaker 3: o'clock on that. After two o'clock, an article in the

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Speaker 3: Herald reveals that a growing number of kiwis of finding

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Speaker 3: relief from their psychologue distress and conditions by using MAgric mushrooms.

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Speaker 3: So it points to emerging clinical evidence in international studies

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Speaker 3: which have found psilocyburn, that is the active ingredient assisted

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Speaker 3: therapy can reduce addictions and improve mental health outcomes when

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Speaker 3: used in a controlled therapeutic setting. But as the drug

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Speaker 3: is still a Class A substance. Here in New Zealand,

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Speaker 3: there is also a growing underground movement of hidden retreats

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Speaker 3: and foragers who are looking for this fung guy to experience.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, there's a lot of evidence now that these psychedelic

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Speaker 2: treatments cannot chronically depress people out of their debilitating functs

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Speaker 2: and it just takes one or two controlled sessions, whereas

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Speaker 2: classic antidepressants you're taking them daily for years and they

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Speaker 2: don't necessarily sort anything out. You're just on antidepressants and

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Speaker 2: then it's hard to get off them. So if you

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Speaker 2: could take a trip in a lab with a therapist

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Speaker 2: and disrupt your negative thought patterns, such says you can

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Speaker 2: get on with life, would you take it? Wait one

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Speaker 2: hundred eighty ten? Or is a trip step too far?

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Speaker 2: When it comes to yours or other New Zealand's mental

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Speaker 2: health struggles.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, that's going to be a great discussion after too clop.

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Speaker 3: But right now, let's have a chat about public transport.

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Speaker 3: So At says it is nearly half the price of

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Speaker 3: driving yourself to work. As fuel prices surge amid the

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Speaker 3: escalating conflict in the Middle East, so At said this

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Speaker 3: morning it is now costing people nearly double to drive

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Speaker 3: their own cars. Back before this conflict arose, it was

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Speaker 3: about the same price. So if you had one person

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Speaker 3: in a car driving to work, or you use public transport,

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Speaker 3: it was pretty much dollar for dollar, bang on, about

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Speaker 3: the same. But that didn't include the cost of parking.

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Speaker 3: So but that has now drastically changed, where jumping on

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Speaker 3: a bus or a train is about half the cost

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Speaker 3: of driving yourself to work.

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Speaker 2: I call absolute bollocks on this. I call bollocks on

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Speaker 2: that because okay, we'll break it down. Well, okay, if

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Speaker 2: you think about it, right, so eight leaders per one

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Speaker 2: hundred k would that be you know, you look into

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Speaker 2: this kind of stuff, you're stallly you work out, would

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Speaker 2: you say eight liters per one hundred k would be

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Speaker 2: about the.

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Speaker 3: About the emergency yep, that would be the average for

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Speaker 3: most people for a.

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Speaker 2: Car driving ninety one, Yep, it's about seventeen it's what

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Speaker 2: seventeen k's.

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Speaker 3: For Elita, seventeen k's for a leter. Yeah, I think

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Speaker 3: I think that mess works out right.

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Speaker 2: So now I'm getting into difficult math here. So seven

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Speaker 2: two k's aleter so and let's just say fuels three

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Speaker 2: dollars fifty so you know, put it up a nice

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Speaker 2: round high number. So doesn't that mean that if you're

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Speaker 2: ten k's away from work, So if you divide that

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Speaker 2: by that three point five US seven, doesn't that mean

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Speaker 2: ten k would cost you about two bucks petrol? So

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Speaker 2: if you're traveling for ten ks and then they're about two.

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Speaker 3: Bucks, I think you're right, and we're going to run

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Speaker 3: the numbers. So here's what AT says. And it's good

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Speaker 3: to call out maths because you know it's important to

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Speaker 3: get the figures right. So they reckon with a fifteen

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Speaker 3: kilometer single person commute. They reckon it costs about eighty

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Speaker 3: cents per kilometer, so fifteen kilometers is about two bucks.

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Speaker 3: Then to compare that to their tree.

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Speaker 2: I mean, these guys are notorious liars, Like we know

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Speaker 2: this is you to me At all cond transport here. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: so there are political agendas to get people out of cars.

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Speaker 2: They are car haters that want to do everything they

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Speaker 2: can to make it as hard as possible for people

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Speaker 2: to drive cars. Right, So, so what's their equation for that?

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Speaker 2: At eighty cents, that's all I've got there.

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Speaker 3: So the cost of this is the exact quote. The

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Speaker 3: cost of petrol has risen at least fifty cents per

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Speaker 3: liter since the start of the Iran conflict, with a

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Speaker 3: fifteen kilometer single person commute now costing roughly eighty cents

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Speaker 3: per k, which is equal to about twelve dollars to

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Speaker 3: the total trip.

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Speaker 2: See what kind of fuel efficiency is that?

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Speaker 3: It's good? Yeah, it's a good question if that's on average.

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Speaker 3: But to break it down, So then they go on

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Speaker 3: to talk about their their calculation for public transport. They say,

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Speaker 3: on that same fifteen kilometer journey, that would typically cost

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Speaker 3: around four dollars ninety on eighty's public transport.

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Speaker 2: I mean, am I crazy? But isn't it?

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Speaker 5: Isn't it?

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Speaker 2: Eight leaders gets you about one hundred K and a

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Speaker 2: car that's on average.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I think you're about right. From my understanding, most cars,

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Speaker 3: if you break it all down and obviously got the

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Speaker 3: gas guzzas and the very efficient ones. Yeah, it rounds

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Speaker 3: out to about seven seven point five per one hundred k.

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Speaker 2: So how do you get to eighty cents a k

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Speaker 2: from there? Are they including the entire price of the

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Speaker 2: car as well in that situation, must be a v

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Speaker 2: eight or maybe of course there are you know, upkeep costs,

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Speaker 2: servicing costs for a car and such. But that seems

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Speaker 2: very high to say eighty cents a kilometer. And I

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Speaker 2: so I'm missing something one hundred and eighty ten eighty?

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Speaker 2: Am I missing something nineteen ninety two? I've been wrong before,

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Speaker 2: and I am just doing these maths on that. Look

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Speaker 2: at that terrible piece of paper there.

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Speaker 3: Oh Jesus, that's like it looks like an eight year

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Speaker 3: old stone. Yeah, that is like a beautiful mind situation.

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Speaker 2: So there is a possiblity. I mean, bearing in mind

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Speaker 2: we all know that AT is an anti car organization.

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Speaker 3: But even if it doesn't cost half of what it

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Speaker 3: costs you out to drive, so so of public transport,

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Speaker 3: and if you take AT at the word, which is

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Speaker 3: a dangerous thing to do, but even if it's not

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Speaker 3: saving you fifty percent on your running costs, even if

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Speaker 3: it's saving you, say, twenty percent on your running cost.

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Speaker 3: Is that the tipping point for most people to relook

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Speaker 3: at the idea of public transport? Like you, I haven't

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Speaker 3: used public transport for a long long time because the

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Speaker 3: convenience of it does my head. And the last time

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Speaker 3: I had to get it was from nor Shore back

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Speaker 3: to the city and I had to jump on three

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Speaker 3: bus and it took me an hour and a half

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Speaker 3: and I'm like, this is crazy. I can't operate like this,

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Speaker 3: but needs must because I didn't want to book an uber.

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Speaker 3: But if this is the tipping point for a lot

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Speaker 3: of people to say, I'm going to give it another crack,

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Speaker 3: we'd love to hear from you. Oh eight hundred eighty

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Speaker 3: ten eighty, shear your story and tell us have you

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Speaker 3: ditched the car to try public transport and what was

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Speaker 3: it like, because I assume there's a few people looking

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Speaker 3: at the price and say, you know what, I haven't

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Speaker 3: ridden the bus for ten years. Why not I might

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Speaker 3: just give it a crack and see how it goes,

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Speaker 3: and then jump on it and say this is crazy.

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Speaker 3: I'm half an hour late to work. The bus didn't

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Speaker 3: turn up on back to the car. I don't care

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Speaker 3: what the price of fuel is.

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Speaker 2: I mean, driving in your car is a luxurious thing,

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Speaker 2: isn't it. And you can listen to your tune, you

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Speaker 2: listen to the radio, ring family members to do some

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Speaker 2: business on the phone. Oh, I love a commute. As

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Speaker 2: I said before, it's like my rolling pleasure center. My

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Speaker 2: car is so comfy.

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Speaker 3: I love being in it. It's like a portable lounge.

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Speaker 2: It's got all my stuff in it. It's got all

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Speaker 2: my treats in it, retreats in there. Yeah yeah, so

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Speaker 2: but you know, and itcdotally. The buses are absolutely rammed.

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Speaker 3: Yep. That's what the boss was saying this morning.

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Speaker 2: So have you worked out how to get to work

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Speaker 2: on our public transport system? And you know, boy, you'll

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Speaker 2: take I reckon. You're ten bucks a lead before you

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Speaker 2: get me out of my can.

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Speaker 3: It's a high price. What do you say though, Oh,

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Speaker 3: one hundred and eighty ten eighty is that number to call?

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Speaker 3: Nine two nine to two is the text back? Very shortly?

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Speaker 3: It is seventeen past one.

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Speaker 2: I'm speaking of math. You've been pulled up on your

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Speaker 2: running math. So forty four minutes for just throwing math

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Speaker 2: at people. You said, you're run You're running just over

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Speaker 2: five kilometer five minute kilometers, right, yeah, so that would

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Speaker 2: be a just over thirty five minutes duration. So forty

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Speaker 2: four minutes for seven k's as an average of six

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Speaker 2: point three minutes per okay.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, so here's what happened here.

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Speaker 2: So you must have fallen off a cliff. You must

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Speaker 2: have been running eight eight minute k's by the end.

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Speaker 2: I'm not sure if I want to be in your

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Speaker 2: team anymore.

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Speaker 3: It started off well, what happened here. I was very

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Speaker 3: happy with the forty four minutes, but then you called

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Speaker 3: me out straight away, and then you wanted the average,

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Speaker 3: and I knew the average. I just didn't want to

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Speaker 3: say that. I started off with a his and aurora

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Speaker 3: and I fell apart.

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Speaker 2: All right, anyway, let's stick to public transport.

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Speaker 3: Please, Oh one hundred and eighty ten eighty set number

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Speaker 3: to cool back in the mile was eighteen past one.

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Speaker 1: The big stories, the big issues, the big trends, and

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Speaker 1: everything in between. Matt Heath and Tyler Adams afternoons used talks.

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Speaker 3: It'd be afternoon to you. It is twenty pass one.

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Speaker 3: So we're talking about public transport. Anecdotally we've heard that

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Speaker 3: the buses and trains are absolutely rammed at the moment

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Speaker 3: as the cost of fuel continues to increase. Is this

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Speaker 3: the tipping point for you if you had another look

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Speaker 3: at public transport and give it another crack, And if

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Speaker 3: you have still not done that, what would be the

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Speaker 3: tipping point for you to look at it?

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Speaker 2: The stick says Urber should be turned into public transport

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Speaker 2: all electric as well, so that solves the problem at

303
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Speaker 2: the moment. Yeah, I was. I was thinking instead of

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Speaker 2: you know, building the city rail link that doesn't really

305
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Speaker 2: go a lot of places that people need to go,

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Speaker 2: they could have just set up a the equivalent of

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Speaker 2: an uber.

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Speaker 3: Yeah how much was it again?

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Speaker 2: I'm just look at the five point six billion?

310
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Speaker 3: Yeah, it's effectivelyber Uber for life for everyone in Auckland.

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Speaker 2: That could have gone all over the city. They would

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Speaker 2: have been lovely on, you know, electrically speaking and high people.

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Speaker 2: You wouldn't you know if you care about the carbon footprint,

314
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Speaker 2: the cabin footprint will never be recovered from digging that.

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Speaker 3: Massive whole tony. How are you this afternoon?

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Speaker 6: Yeah, not too bad, not too bad.

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Speaker 3: So you want to have a chat about public transporter

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Speaker 3: you you thinking about getting back on it.

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Speaker 6: No, no, no, I'll I don't use type of transport.

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Speaker 6: I find it very inconvenient, even even to get to

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Speaker 6: the supermarket or we'll go to town. It's just a hassle

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Speaker 6: waiting the bus. Of its raining, you know, you've got

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Speaker 6: to take an umbrella, and it's the bus stops aren't

324
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Speaker 6: very sheltered. You know, you're going to get wet. And

325
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Speaker 6: my wife, my wife works at Squire City in Auckland

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Speaker 6: City and she worked from two o'clock in the afternoon

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Speaker 6: till midnight, so she can get to work on public transport,

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Speaker 6: but she can't get home. And if she gave her

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Speaker 6: to work on public transport, she has to catch two

330
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Speaker 6: buses and that still doesn't take her to the door.

331
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Speaker 6: She still has to walk about ten minutes to get

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Speaker 6: to the get to her job from from Queen Street,

333
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Speaker 6: so she has to walk the hill and down the hill.

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Speaker 6: And she said she's a chef, so been on her

335
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Speaker 6: feet all day. That's the last thing she wants to

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Speaker 6: do is worry about catching the transport. You know, it's

337
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Speaker 6: just bowing convenient it early is you know, yeah, you

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Speaker 6: know you have to wake up a tracking two three

339
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Speaker 6: hours earlier as a normal you know, normally you have

340
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Speaker 6: to walk for miles to get to the bus stop

341
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Speaker 6: and then when you get if you work in an

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Speaker 6: industrial area, right, so you work in a Hunger.

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Speaker 7: I used to work at only Hunger.

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Speaker 6: I used to catch a train from Pepatoe, so I

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Speaker 6: used to get off an ani hanger. I'll still have

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Speaker 6: to walk forty minutes to get to my sight from

347
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Speaker 6: the train station to my sight in the middle of

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Speaker 6: long walk.

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Speaker 2: It's not practical for you at.

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Speaker 6: All at seven o'clock in the morning, and for last

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Speaker 6: thing you want to be doing, especially I was a

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Speaker 6: truck driver, so I'll be driving all day. The last

353
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Speaker 6: thing I was doing is worrying about catching bubble transport,

354
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Speaker 6: you know.

355
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Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I mean that is a thing. So if

356
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Speaker 2: we're talking about it as a purely cost thing, then

357
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Speaker 2: you know, if it's if it's the same or slightly

358
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Speaker 2: more to be in your car and you can just

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Speaker 2: finish work and essentially put your feet up in your

360
00:15:52,373 --> 00:15:54,893
Speaker 2: car with all your stuff and drive home and get

361
00:15:54,933 --> 00:15:57,733
Speaker 2: exactly from where you are to your door, then that's

362
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Speaker 2: pretty great. Of Course, a lot of people have, you know,

363
00:16:00,493 --> 00:16:03,293
Speaker 2: huge parking expenses, people don't have a park at work

364
00:16:03,333 --> 00:16:03,693
Speaker 2: and such.

365
00:16:03,853 --> 00:16:04,213
Speaker 3: Correct.

366
00:16:04,253 --> 00:16:06,493
Speaker 2: Yeah, so that complicates things a lot.

367
00:16:06,453 --> 00:16:07,532
Speaker 3: Thank you very much, Tony.

368
00:16:07,733 --> 00:16:11,013
Speaker 2: So AC it's per kilometer is the IRD claimable as

369
00:16:11,093 --> 00:16:14,493
Speaker 2: cost of car fuel, insurance, in cost a run your car, etc.

370
00:16:15,053 --> 00:16:18,173
Speaker 2: But I call BS on that for AT then whatever,

371
00:16:18,373 --> 00:16:20,813
Speaker 2: I think that that whatever it is, and people are

372
00:16:20,813 --> 00:16:23,973
Speaker 2: saying that the IID claims whatever the cost of depreciation

373
00:16:24,093 --> 00:16:25,893
Speaker 2: of your car and the running of your car, insurance

374
00:16:25,893 --> 00:16:27,613
Speaker 2: and all that kind of stuff, because you've still got

375
00:16:27,613 --> 00:16:29,853
Speaker 2: your car if you've decided to get on the bus, right,

376
00:16:30,253 --> 00:16:32,293
Speaker 2: And so that's what AT is saying, Right, so get

377
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Speaker 2: on the bus because it's cheaper than your car, but

378
00:16:34,213 --> 00:16:35,973
Speaker 2: your car is still you're still paying the insurance for

379
00:16:36,013 --> 00:16:36,853
Speaker 2: it if you're not taking it.

380
00:16:37,653 --> 00:16:39,813
Speaker 3: Yeah, so you still got the car, you can't pause

381
00:16:39,853 --> 00:16:40,373
Speaker 3: the insurance.

382
00:16:40,373 --> 00:16:41,333
Speaker 2: It's still depreciating.

383
00:16:41,413 --> 00:16:43,773
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah that's true. Yeah, so you're still.

384
00:16:43,533 --> 00:16:46,213
Speaker 2: Paying all those costs but not getting the benefit of

385
00:16:46,333 --> 00:16:47,093
Speaker 2: driving it to work.

386
00:16:47,173 --> 00:16:49,893
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's a very fair point. And AT just won't

387
00:16:49,893 --> 00:16:50,973
Speaker 3: add that into the calculation.

388
00:16:51,133 --> 00:16:53,333
Speaker 2: No, it's a dishonest calculation that they're giving us.

389
00:16:53,413 --> 00:16:55,133
Speaker 3: Yeah, but what do you say, oh, one hundred and

390
00:16:55,173 --> 00:16:57,653
Speaker 3: eighty ten eighty. Have you relooked at the idea of

391
00:16:57,653 --> 00:17:01,653
Speaker 3: public transport or will you never never get into the

392
00:17:01,653 --> 00:17:03,333
Speaker 3: public transport because it's too incomediate?

393
00:17:03,533 --> 00:17:06,413
Speaker 2: This sixt is my mighty Suzuki swift cost twenty three

394
00:17:06,413 --> 00:17:09,293
Speaker 2: cents per kilometer at the most if the forwards three

395
00:17:09,293 --> 00:17:10,453
Speaker 2: point fifty per liter.

396
00:17:10,733 --> 00:17:13,693
Speaker 3: Very efficiently on Souki swifts. Oh, one hundred and eighty

397
00:17:13,693 --> 00:17:15,853
Speaker 3: ten eighty is that number to call? It is twenty

398
00:17:15,933 --> 00:17:16,572
Speaker 3: five past one?

399
00:17:16,613 --> 00:17:20,853
Speaker 1: Be very surely your home for the big names in entertainment.

400
00:17:21,093 --> 00:17:23,013
Speaker 1: It's the mic asking Breakfast.

401
00:17:22,613 --> 00:17:24,453
Speaker 8: Robby Williams, as well as let's start with the bricks

402
00:17:24,533 --> 00:17:26,373
Speaker 8: the other night. I mean goodness, So on a scale

403
00:17:26,413 --> 00:17:27,613
Speaker 8: of one to ten, house stoked?

404
00:17:27,653 --> 00:17:27,893
Speaker 9: Are you?

405
00:17:28,013 --> 00:17:28,173
Speaker 10: Oh?

406
00:17:28,253 --> 00:17:28,413
Speaker 9: May?

407
00:17:28,493 --> 00:17:31,653
Speaker 11: I've thought about it every day since. It was a

408
00:17:31,733 --> 00:17:35,813
Speaker 11: real career highlight for many reasons. Have the honor of

409
00:17:35,933 --> 00:17:40,453
Speaker 11: front end and Ozzy Osbourne tribute, which in itself was

410
00:17:40,573 --> 00:17:43,053
Speaker 11: just intoxicating, and I want more of it.

411
00:17:43,133 --> 00:17:44,773
Speaker 8: So, I mean, even after all these years, it must

412
00:17:44,813 --> 00:17:46,653
Speaker 8: be a point where everything's like and you've done all

413
00:17:46,693 --> 00:17:47,253
Speaker 8: you need to do.

414
00:17:47,293 --> 00:17:49,333
Speaker 2: The rest is just joy. But that sounds to me

415
00:17:49,573 --> 00:17:50,773
Speaker 2: like you need some more.

416
00:17:50,973 --> 00:17:52,093
Speaker 1: Yeah, I do.

417
00:17:52,413 --> 00:17:56,773
Speaker 11: The whole is unfillable, but still I persevere.

418
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Speaker 8: Back tomorrow at six am the Mic Asking Breakfast with

419
00:17:59,573 --> 00:18:01,413
Speaker 8: Avida News Talk ZIB.

420
00:18:02,853 --> 00:18:04,853
Speaker 3: Afternoon to you. It is twenty eight past one.

421
00:18:04,893 --> 00:18:08,093
Speaker 12: Good ay, Roger, Oh good afternoon guys, and how are

422
00:18:08,093 --> 00:18:12,093
Speaker 12: you period. I'm absolutely no defender of all Can transport

423
00:18:12,133 --> 00:18:13,613
Speaker 12: and I love my cars, but I do just want

424
00:18:13,613 --> 00:18:15,733
Speaker 12: to comment on that rate that they're using. That eighty

425
00:18:15,813 --> 00:18:17,532
Speaker 12: cents rate, and you kind of covered it in the

426
00:18:17,573 --> 00:18:21,133
Speaker 12: previous chat, but that's taking all the costs into account,

427
00:18:21,133 --> 00:18:23,533
Speaker 12: so not just petrol, but all your variable costs plus

428
00:18:23,533 --> 00:18:27,613
Speaker 12: you fixed costs, so with regio, maintenance, tires, insurance, all

429
00:18:27,653 --> 00:18:30,373
Speaker 12: the rest of it, and the ID rate at the

430
00:18:30,373 --> 00:18:32,413
Speaker 12: moment for this tax, here is a dollar seventeen that

431
00:18:32,453 --> 00:18:34,533
Speaker 12: you can claim in your account. So just to give

432
00:18:34,573 --> 00:18:36,693
Speaker 12: it some basis there that they're saying eighty centers are

433
00:18:36,773 --> 00:18:38,773
Speaker 12: very average for an ordinary car, but you can actually

434
00:18:39,253 --> 00:18:42,532
Speaker 12: claim a dollar seventeen according to the ID. But but

435
00:18:42,573 --> 00:18:44,173
Speaker 12: I take your point that a lot of those costs

436
00:18:44,213 --> 00:18:46,533
Speaker 12: are fixed team if you don't use the car, you

437
00:18:46,613 --> 00:18:48,653
Speaker 12: have to you know, like your insurance and your WAP

438
00:18:48,653 --> 00:18:49,133
Speaker 12: and your regie.

439
00:18:49,333 --> 00:18:49,533
Speaker 13: Yeah.

440
00:18:49,813 --> 00:18:51,893
Speaker 2: Yeah, So I think when they announce the step like that.

441
00:18:52,013 --> 00:18:54,813
Speaker 2: They need to say that that's a huge If you

442
00:18:54,893 --> 00:18:57,093
Speaker 2: got rid of your car right now, so you sell

443
00:18:57,133 --> 00:18:59,013
Speaker 2: your car and then start taking the bus, then this

444
00:18:59,133 --> 00:19:01,373
Speaker 2: is then this is how we can make the comparison.

445
00:19:01,373 --> 00:19:03,653
Speaker 2: But if the car is sitting on you know, in

446
00:19:03,733 --> 00:19:06,812
Speaker 2: the driveway, then that that is not that is not

447
00:19:06,893 --> 00:19:08,253
Speaker 2: a fear comparison at all.

448
00:19:08,533 --> 00:19:10,573
Speaker 9: Now I take your point, and they should have qualified it.

449
00:19:10,613 --> 00:19:13,853
Speaker 2: But you said, you said you understand, you understand a

450
00:19:13,893 --> 00:19:19,773
Speaker 2: little bit about about accounting, Roger, So can you explain

451
00:19:20,013 --> 00:19:23,213
Speaker 2: the marginal cost calculation Vige.

452
00:19:23,213 --> 00:19:24,813
Speaker 9: You mean what you can claim in your account. So

453
00:19:24,813 --> 00:19:27,573
Speaker 9: the idea allows you to claim if you're an employee

454
00:19:27,613 --> 00:19:30,453
Speaker 9: and you're using your car for work purposes, so you're

455
00:19:30,533 --> 00:19:32,933
Speaker 9: using your personal car to run to the bank or whatever,

456
00:19:33,013 --> 00:19:35,893
Speaker 9: you can claim a dollar seventeen off your employer for

457
00:19:36,213 --> 00:19:38,973
Speaker 9: then they can legally use that as tax deductible right

458
00:19:39,013 --> 00:19:42,053
Speaker 9: to a certain limit of case per year. And the

459
00:19:42,133 --> 00:19:44,133
Speaker 9: similar applies if you've got if you're doing your IR

460
00:19:44,213 --> 00:19:46,093
Speaker 9: three is for your own personal accounts. Here you can

461
00:19:46,093 --> 00:19:48,693
Speaker 9: claim a dollar seventeen up to a certain amount per year.

462
00:19:48,733 --> 00:19:50,693
Speaker 13: So just just for comparison there, and can.

463
00:19:50,613 --> 00:19:52,293
Speaker 2: You do that with public transport.

464
00:19:52,613 --> 00:19:55,173
Speaker 9: And well you could, you could claim your fares to

465
00:19:55,253 --> 00:19:58,813
Speaker 9: public transport if you're an employee going somewhere for your employer,

466
00:19:58,973 --> 00:20:00,733
Speaker 9: but generally not if it's just getting to your place

467
00:20:00,773 --> 00:20:01,053
Speaker 9: at work.

468
00:20:01,133 --> 00:20:01,333
Speaker 6: None.

469
00:20:01,453 --> 00:20:04,333
Speaker 3: Yeah, and clearly that's not if you're driving to work,

470
00:20:04,413 --> 00:20:05,973
Speaker 3: because you know you're going to weeks.

471
00:20:06,813 --> 00:20:08,933
Speaker 2: If you're outdoing sales, and if you're salesmen out on

472
00:20:08,933 --> 00:20:11,533
Speaker 2: a bus, then you're not making a lot of sales

473
00:20:10,333 --> 00:20:12,093
Speaker 2: in exactly.

474
00:20:12,413 --> 00:20:13,293
Speaker 3: That's a tough operation.

475
00:20:14,013 --> 00:20:15,453
Speaker 2: Thank you so much for you call, Roger, and thanks

476
00:20:15,453 --> 00:20:16,933
Speaker 2: for clearing that up. I really appreciate it.

477
00:20:17,013 --> 00:20:18,812
Speaker 3: Yeah, thank you very much taking your calls on. Oh,

478
00:20:18,813 --> 00:20:19,973
Speaker 3: eight hundred and eighty ten eight eight.

479
00:20:20,093 --> 00:20:22,493
Speaker 2: Don't do it, eighty are not your saviors. Do not

480
00:20:22,613 --> 00:20:24,853
Speaker 2: run to the arms of the enemy just because we

481
00:20:24,973 --> 00:20:27,693
Speaker 2: have a temporary fuel problem. Says this text. That they

482
00:20:27,693 --> 00:20:30,573
Speaker 2: will use the increased number against us to punish drivers

483
00:20:30,573 --> 00:20:33,893
Speaker 2: more and more resources to the normally empty buses and trains.

484
00:20:33,933 --> 00:20:36,572
Speaker 2: In the future, the good and righteous will keep up

485
00:20:36,653 --> 00:20:38,533
Speaker 2: the good fight in their cars.

486
00:20:39,493 --> 00:20:39,853
Speaker 14: Good on.

487
00:20:39,973 --> 00:20:43,973
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's right there, talking to the true. Yeah, I

488
00:20:43,973 --> 00:20:44,733
Speaker 3: feel fizzed up.

489
00:20:44,853 --> 00:20:46,933
Speaker 2: I always take the bus that sucks now, says this text,

490
00:20:46,973 --> 00:20:50,973
Speaker 2: are too many businessmen and suits losers getting on? Can't

491
00:20:50,973 --> 00:20:55,453
Speaker 2: get a seat? That's okay, that's pretty nasty. You don't

492
00:20:55,493 --> 00:20:57,373
Speaker 2: want business people in suit? Are they the worst people

493
00:20:57,413 --> 00:21:00,773
Speaker 2: in buses? Sometimes you see a businessman in a suit

494
00:21:00,813 --> 00:21:03,532
Speaker 2: on a bus and you think, have you been di wide?

495
00:21:03,813 --> 00:21:05,933
Speaker 3: There's a story behind that. Yeah, yeah, you're going to

496
00:21:06,013 --> 00:21:07,493
Speaker 3: give us some context. What are you doing here?

497
00:21:07,573 --> 00:21:08,333
Speaker 2: You're not allowed to drive you?

498
00:21:08,413 --> 00:21:08,573
Speaker 13: Yeah?

499
00:21:09,053 --> 00:21:11,093
Speaker 3: Oh, one hundred and eighty ten eighty is that number

500
00:21:11,093 --> 00:21:11,373
Speaker 3: to call?

501
00:21:11,453 --> 00:21:11,532
Speaker 5: So?

502
00:21:11,653 --> 00:21:14,493
Speaker 3: Is this the point where public transport starts to seem

503
00:21:14,693 --> 00:21:17,693
Speaker 3: like a real option for you? Or will you never

504
00:21:17,813 --> 00:21:20,253
Speaker 3: get on public transport because it's just too inconvenient?

505
00:21:20,373 --> 00:21:22,653
Speaker 2: Yeah? Have we hit the tipping point for you or

506
00:21:22,693 --> 00:21:25,653
Speaker 2: someone in your household in terms of getting out of

507
00:21:25,653 --> 00:21:29,133
Speaker 2: your car and getting on public transport? Because anecdotally speaking,

508
00:21:29,453 --> 00:21:31,373
Speaker 2: public transport is rammed?

509
00:21:31,493 --> 00:21:33,893
Speaker 3: Yep, tell us your story. Nineteen ninet two is the text.

510
00:21:33,933 --> 00:21:36,013
Speaker 3: Headlines with railing are coming up?

511
00:21:37,173 --> 00:21:40,613
Speaker 10: You've talked said b headlines with your Ride new Zealand's

512
00:21:40,653 --> 00:21:44,533
Speaker 10: number one taxi app, Download your Ride today. New Zealand's

513
00:21:44,573 --> 00:21:48,773
Speaker 10: economy was already weaker than thought, with GDP growing just

514
00:21:49,013 --> 00:21:52,373
Speaker 10: zero point two percent. In the December quarter, before the

515
00:21:52,453 --> 00:21:56,413
Speaker 10: UAS and Israel launched war on a run pressuring world markets.

516
00:21:56,893 --> 00:22:00,533
Speaker 10: GDP grew just zero point two percent overall last year

517
00:22:00,893 --> 00:22:04,653
Speaker 10: and contracted zero point four percent on a per capita basis.

518
00:22:05,493 --> 00:22:09,733
Speaker 10: New Zealand's Plastics Industry Body says moosts are already rising

519
00:22:09,773 --> 00:22:13,213
Speaker 10: for manufacturers and distributors is a knock on effect from

520
00:22:13,213 --> 00:22:15,933
Speaker 10: the war in the Middle East. Plastics and z says

521
00:22:15,973 --> 00:22:19,653
Speaker 10: one specialist grade material is about seventy five percent dearer.

522
00:22:20,853 --> 00:22:23,453
Speaker 10: Police have found a body thought to be a man

523
00:22:23,533 --> 00:22:27,453
Speaker 10: who went overboard off a vessel in field Lands Lake, Manipodi,

524
00:22:27,733 --> 00:22:32,133
Speaker 10: but he hasn't yet been formally identified. Charter school attendance

525
00:22:32,213 --> 00:22:36,093
Speaker 10: squeaked in above state schools in their first year at

526
00:22:36,093 --> 00:22:39,453
Speaker 10: fifty nine point seven percent, just over the fifty eight

527
00:22:39,493 --> 00:22:43,693
Speaker 10: percent average for state schools. The math is simple. Our

528
00:22:43,693 --> 00:22:47,733
Speaker 10: superannuation structure is unaffordable. You can see the full column

529
00:22:47,733 --> 00:22:50,973
Speaker 10: at Enzed Herald. Premium are back to Matteath and Tyler Adams.

530
00:22:51,053 --> 00:22:53,773
Speaker 3: Thank you very much, Raylan. It is twenty four to two.

531
00:22:54,013 --> 00:22:56,373
Speaker 3: So has the price of fuel been enough to make

532
00:22:56,453 --> 00:22:59,453
Speaker 3: you consider using public transport? Maybe for the first time.

533
00:22:59,453 --> 00:23:00,733
Speaker 3: O Weight one hundred and eighty. Ten eighty is a

534
00:23:00,813 --> 00:23:01,333
Speaker 3: number to call.

535
00:23:01,733 --> 00:23:04,013
Speaker 2: Not much talk about trains, all about buses, guys, just

536
00:23:04,093 --> 00:23:07,933
Speaker 2: saying yeah, well other bus. Haven't you know I used

537
00:23:07,973 --> 00:23:10,293
Speaker 2: to live near the trains in Auckland. I haven't seen

538
00:23:10,293 --> 00:23:12,253
Speaker 2: where the trains are fill Obviously in Wellington trains are

539
00:23:12,253 --> 00:23:12,693
Speaker 2: a big thing.

540
00:23:12,813 --> 00:23:15,052
Speaker 3: Yeah, what are the trains like in Auckland? I mean

541
00:23:15,373 --> 00:23:17,213
Speaker 3: trains are an over thing in christ each other. No

542
00:23:17,293 --> 00:23:19,893
Speaker 3: trains in christ Church, not that I'm aware, certainly not

543
00:23:19,893 --> 00:23:20,333
Speaker 3: in the city.

544
00:23:20,373 --> 00:23:23,813
Speaker 2: Apart from exciting awesome tourism trains, they're not really a

545
00:23:23,813 --> 00:23:24,613
Speaker 2: big thing. In Duneda.

546
00:23:24,733 --> 00:23:27,133
Speaker 3: Love a tram, a couple of trams going around, pretty

547
00:23:27,173 --> 00:23:28,613
Speaker 3: slow way to get around the city though.

548
00:23:28,693 --> 00:23:31,693
Speaker 2: And christ Church, Yeah, did you actually get around on

549
00:23:31,693 --> 00:23:34,213
Speaker 2: those or are you just sort of having dinner? And yeah?

550
00:23:34,333 --> 00:23:34,573
Speaker 6: Nice thing.

551
00:23:34,653 --> 00:23:36,093
Speaker 3: I think it's about twenty bucks to jump of.

552
00:23:36,933 --> 00:23:39,893
Speaker 2: The eight leader per one hundred kilometers is more like

553
00:23:40,013 --> 00:23:43,013
Speaker 2: open road driving, not city driving. Maybe around nine point

554
00:23:43,053 --> 00:23:46,813
Speaker 2: five to eleven leaders for driving just my thoughts. That's

555
00:23:46,813 --> 00:23:50,013
Speaker 2: a good point. Actually, my stats that came back at

556
00:23:51,173 --> 00:23:54,093
Speaker 2: about two dollars and six cents to travel ten kilometers

557
00:23:54,133 --> 00:23:59,813
Speaker 2: in the average fuel economy calculation for a car in

558
00:23:59,813 --> 00:24:02,613
Speaker 2: New Zealand. That's true. Actually that would be on the

559
00:24:02,653 --> 00:24:04,613
Speaker 2: open road probably, Yeah, I don't know.

560
00:24:04,773 --> 00:24:07,173
Speaker 3: It's on average on regular driving, right, yeah.

561
00:24:07,213 --> 00:24:07,413
Speaker 9: Yeah.

562
00:24:07,693 --> 00:24:09,653
Speaker 3: You look at a year is worth a driving how

563
00:24:09,733 --> 00:24:11,493
Speaker 3: much fuel you use, and then you get the.

564
00:24:11,493 --> 00:24:13,453
Speaker 2: Enfer And if you're getting that kind of fuel comic

565
00:24:13,453 --> 00:24:16,693
Speaker 2: because I'm not getting that number from the you know,

566
00:24:16,733 --> 00:24:18,693
Speaker 2: the people selling the car, so they you know, pump

567
00:24:18,773 --> 00:24:19,773
Speaker 2: up the numbers so it looks good.

568
00:24:19,853 --> 00:24:20,053
Speaker 15: Yeah.

569
00:24:20,093 --> 00:24:23,733
Speaker 2: But even so, if it's nine point five, let's say,

570
00:24:24,013 --> 00:24:28,133
Speaker 2: three dollars fifty elter just to make things easy to do,

571
00:24:28,933 --> 00:24:31,813
Speaker 2: then you're looking at it about point three six eight

572
00:24:32,013 --> 00:24:35,773
Speaker 2: per kilometer, So that's you get about you know, well,

573
00:24:35,813 --> 00:24:37,133
Speaker 2: I mean then that's an easy math, isn't it. So

574
00:24:37,173 --> 00:24:39,613
Speaker 2: you get three dollars sixty eight for ten k. So

575
00:24:39,813 --> 00:24:41,693
Speaker 2: I'm both saying that it's ten k to get work.

576
00:24:41,733 --> 00:24:43,533
Speaker 2: So I'm making a few assumptions. That's quite a long way.

577
00:24:43,653 --> 00:24:44,333
Speaker 3: Yeah.

578
00:24:44,373 --> 00:24:46,413
Speaker 2: But yeah, as if people say that there is more

579
00:24:46,453 --> 00:24:49,013
Speaker 2: cost to driving a car than just the gas. But

580
00:24:49,173 --> 00:24:51,773
Speaker 2: as I also say, and why I'm calling BS on

581
00:24:51,813 --> 00:24:54,293
Speaker 2: this at stat is because that car is still sitting

582
00:24:54,293 --> 00:24:55,133
Speaker 2: in your garret.

583
00:24:54,853 --> 00:24:56,173
Speaker 3: Yea, the most a few details.

584
00:24:56,173 --> 00:24:58,613
Speaker 2: All the insurance and depreciation is still happening in the garage.

585
00:24:58,653 --> 00:25:00,853
Speaker 3: Yep, I've cherry picked a bit there. Chris. How are

586
00:25:00,893 --> 00:25:01,613
Speaker 3: you this afternoon?

587
00:25:03,293 --> 00:25:03,493
Speaker 15: Yeah?

588
00:25:03,573 --> 00:25:05,413
Speaker 9: Greetings, guys, how's it going very good?

589
00:25:05,493 --> 00:25:09,493
Speaker 3: Are you a you're a lover of public transport? Oh? No,

590
00:25:09,693 --> 00:25:12,413
Speaker 3: I've read it wrong, easily. You could be. You could

591
00:25:12,453 --> 00:25:14,373
Speaker 3: be a lover of it, but you decide not to be.

592
00:25:15,573 --> 00:25:17,733
Speaker 16: Well the industry I was in for half more than

593
00:25:17,773 --> 00:25:20,533
Speaker 16: half my lifetime. I'm certainly not a lover of public transport.

594
00:25:20,573 --> 00:25:24,213
Speaker 16: But I allowed myself in Auckland to use the bus

595
00:25:24,533 --> 00:25:28,293
Speaker 16: first time in fifty years, about a year ago on

596
00:25:28,373 --> 00:25:31,293
Speaker 16: the North Shore and I was doing some business down

597
00:25:31,293 --> 00:25:33,213
Speaker 16: the bottom of Honor Your Road and I didn't have

598
00:25:33,293 --> 00:25:36,733
Speaker 16: my car, and I got the bus up to Burkenhead.

599
00:25:36,773 --> 00:25:39,413
Speaker 16: I had a bit of business in Birkenhead and got

600
00:25:39,413 --> 00:25:41,093
Speaker 16: off the bus there and then I had to go

601
00:25:41,093 --> 00:25:43,133
Speaker 16: along to the Glenfield Mall, so I got the bus

602
00:25:43,133 --> 00:25:45,533
Speaker 16: along there. And bearing in mind, this is the first

603
00:25:45,533 --> 00:25:47,653
Speaker 16: time in fifty years I've been on a bus and

604
00:25:48,573 --> 00:25:53,413
Speaker 16: for me it was free, and it was just it

605
00:25:53,533 --> 00:25:55,493
Speaker 16: was a time of day. It was hardly anyone on

606
00:25:55,533 --> 00:25:58,813
Speaker 16: the bus. But it was just the ride on the bus.

607
00:25:58,813 --> 00:26:01,573
Speaker 16: It was just terrible. It was like the Dodge ands

608
00:26:01,613 --> 00:26:03,653
Speaker 16: at you know, the Easter Show. I mean it was

609
00:26:03,893 --> 00:26:09,053
Speaker 16: very bumpy, and seating was terrible and it was just

610
00:26:09,093 --> 00:26:10,053
Speaker 16: a bad experience.

611
00:26:10,093 --> 00:26:11,693
Speaker 13: Ah.

612
00:26:11,773 --> 00:26:15,293
Speaker 2: And so it would gas prices would have to be

613
00:26:15,493 --> 00:26:21,693
Speaker 2: very high, Chris before you decided to use public transport regularly.

614
00:26:23,173 --> 00:26:26,053
Speaker 16: Oh yeah, And I think we've really missed the boat.

615
00:26:26,253 --> 00:26:28,893
Speaker 16: And a lot of people don't realize, particularly if you're

616
00:26:28,893 --> 00:26:31,333
Speaker 16: a rate payer. If you're a rate payer, have a

617
00:26:31,333 --> 00:26:34,373
Speaker 16: look at your rates and see what's the top thing

618
00:26:34,453 --> 00:26:38,013
Speaker 16: we pay for. In the major cities, particularly Auckland, they

619
00:26:38,013 --> 00:26:40,693
Speaker 16: have a polygra graph on me. You can look at

620
00:26:40,733 --> 00:26:43,453
Speaker 16: the top thing you pay for. The top thing in

621
00:26:43,533 --> 00:26:44,693
Speaker 16: Auckland is public.

622
00:26:44,373 --> 00:26:47,052
Speaker 2: Transport, whether you're using it or not.

623
00:26:48,173 --> 00:26:53,533
Speaker 16: Yeah, and the subsidies that go to public transport, you know, rebuses, trains, ferries,

624
00:26:53,573 --> 00:26:57,053
Speaker 16: et cetera. In Auckland is hundreds of millions of dollars.

625
00:26:57,173 --> 00:26:59,253
Speaker 2: And it's about to get a lot worse with the

626
00:26:59,293 --> 00:27:00,453
Speaker 2: opening of the city railing.

627
00:27:01,813 --> 00:27:02,053
Speaker 17: Yeah.

628
00:27:02,093 --> 00:27:05,453
Speaker 16: Well, I personally reckon I think it either's doing a

629
00:27:05,493 --> 00:27:07,613
Speaker 16: poor job because I think there's a bit of the

630
00:27:08,373 --> 00:27:10,613
Speaker 16: I could share for over there because when I look

631
00:27:10,653 --> 00:27:13,653
Speaker 16: at buses, particularly after hours and where I live in

632
00:27:14,013 --> 00:27:17,013
Speaker 16: and on the weekend as well out West Auckland, these

633
00:27:17,133 --> 00:27:19,893
Speaker 16: forty five fifty seeded buses are driving around with three

634
00:27:19,893 --> 00:27:20,533
Speaker 16: people on them.

635
00:27:21,253 --> 00:27:24,373
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, then it doesn't become It doesn't become a

636
00:27:24,413 --> 00:27:25,413
Speaker 2: great equation, does it.

637
00:27:27,013 --> 00:27:29,573
Speaker 16: Well, they should be an uber and I stand corrected,

638
00:27:29,573 --> 00:27:33,413
Speaker 16: but I think in London with the Uber app you

639
00:27:33,453 --> 00:27:36,133
Speaker 16: can actually if you can't get it's something to do

640
00:27:36,173 --> 00:27:37,813
Speaker 16: with the bus system as well. If you can't get

641
00:27:37,813 --> 00:27:41,333
Speaker 16: a bucks you can actually use an Uber and there's

642
00:27:41,333 --> 00:27:44,733
Speaker 16: some sort of cross subsidy from the from them to Uber.

643
00:27:46,413 --> 00:27:48,853
Speaker 2: Have you looked at at and this is just slightly

644
00:27:48,853 --> 00:27:51,253
Speaker 2: off topic about how much more people in Auckland can

645
00:27:51,293 --> 00:27:54,053
Speaker 2: be playing when the City rail Link gets on board,

646
00:27:54,213 --> 00:27:55,373
Speaker 2: when that when that fires up.

647
00:27:57,093 --> 00:27:58,853
Speaker 16: No, I haven't looked at it.

648
00:27:58,893 --> 00:28:02,573
Speaker 2: But some people are getting seven some people are getting

649
00:28:02,693 --> 00:28:04,573
Speaker 2: a lot of people are getting three hundred bucks added

650
00:28:04,573 --> 00:28:06,053
Speaker 2: to their rates a year, and some people are getting

651
00:28:06,093 --> 00:28:09,213
Speaker 2: seven hundred dollars added to the city rail Link, which

652
00:28:09,213 --> 00:28:11,093
Speaker 2: doesn't go where most people go.

653
00:28:12,773 --> 00:28:16,213
Speaker 16: Oh yeah, yeah, I appreciate that. I mean, you know,

654
00:28:16,293 --> 00:28:19,773
Speaker 16: people paying for things long after you know the event.

655
00:28:19,853 --> 00:28:22,453
Speaker 16: I mean, hey, christ judiche a case and point. I

656
00:28:22,813 --> 00:28:25,573
Speaker 16: was down there over the weekend and talking to a

657
00:28:25,653 --> 00:28:27,573
Speaker 16: rally down there and it was showing me as rates

658
00:28:27,573 --> 00:28:29,613
Speaker 16: and they're still paying a subsidy in their rates and

659
00:28:29,733 --> 00:28:32,453
Speaker 16: christ Church for the earthquake, we are.

660
00:28:32,693 --> 00:28:34,453
Speaker 3: Yeah. Yeah, because I've got to say I'm a rate

661
00:28:34,493 --> 00:28:36,253
Speaker 3: paid down in Christchurch from right here in Auckland. I

662
00:28:36,333 --> 00:28:37,613
Speaker 3: was going to say thank you to you guys and

663
00:28:37,653 --> 00:28:40,053
Speaker 3: everybody else because I get to use the CRL and

664
00:28:40,093 --> 00:28:41,573
Speaker 3: I don't have to pay for it, but I'm paying

665
00:28:41,613 --> 00:28:43,973
Speaker 3: for stuff down in christ Church. So it all balances out?

666
00:28:44,893 --> 00:28:47,613
Speaker 2: Or does that thank you for you call? Chris?

667
00:28:47,773 --> 00:28:50,613
Speaker 3: Yeah, so it's free for Chris to use public transport.

668
00:28:50,613 --> 00:28:53,373
Speaker 3: But still, even when it's free, Chris says, it's a

669
00:28:53,413 --> 00:28:53,973
Speaker 3: dog of a thing.

670
00:28:54,013 --> 00:28:56,893
Speaker 2: Well, for public transport should cost what it costs, right,

671
00:28:56,973 --> 00:28:59,973
Speaker 2: So the tickets to get on public transport should cost

672
00:29:00,413 --> 00:29:03,813
Speaker 2: what it costs to run public transport, right yeah. And

673
00:29:03,853 --> 00:29:06,373
Speaker 2: then and then you know, public transport would be forced

674
00:29:06,413 --> 00:29:08,853
Speaker 2: to become as efficient as it possibly could. And as

675
00:29:09,173 --> 00:29:11,213
Speaker 2: Chris says, if if it's late at night and you

676
00:29:11,253 --> 00:29:13,293
Speaker 2: see those buses coming past. You see a loser cruise

677
00:29:13,293 --> 00:29:15,733
Speaker 2: are going past, then look, that's not my word for it,

678
00:29:15,813 --> 00:29:17,053
Speaker 2: but people some people call them.

679
00:29:16,933 --> 00:29:18,013
Speaker 3: Lose someone texting on that.

680
00:29:18,093 --> 00:29:20,573
Speaker 2: Yeah, I call them beautiful, big.

681
00:29:21,933 --> 00:29:24,133
Speaker 3: Show fur driven street limousines.

682
00:29:24,453 --> 00:29:27,733
Speaker 2: But you see one going past with three people on it,

683
00:29:27,813 --> 00:29:30,053
Speaker 2: You're like, well, should they have sent a should they

684
00:29:30,053 --> 00:29:31,653
Speaker 2: send a presus out to put those people up?

685
00:29:31,733 --> 00:29:33,933
Speaker 3: And what is the subsidy for public transport? Because that's

686
00:29:33,933 --> 00:29:36,173
Speaker 3: not an equation they'll put into the mix, is it?

687
00:29:36,213 --> 00:29:38,533
Speaker 3: And I know there is clearly with the gold card,

688
00:29:38,533 --> 00:29:40,333
Speaker 3: but not taking that into account, but I think there

689
00:29:40,453 --> 00:29:42,893
Speaker 3: is an overall subsidy to try and bring that cost down.

690
00:29:42,933 --> 00:29:46,093
Speaker 2: Right, so you're at whatever you're doing, you need to

691
00:29:46,133 --> 00:29:50,413
Speaker 2: add to the cost of the public transport the rates,

692
00:29:50,733 --> 00:29:52,773
Speaker 2: you know, the subsidy that you're paying for the public

693
00:29:52,773 --> 00:29:55,093
Speaker 2: transport as well on top of the price that you're

694
00:29:55,133 --> 00:29:58,893
Speaker 2: actually paying for the ticket. I personally think all public transport,

695
00:29:58,933 --> 00:30:01,293
Speaker 2: the price on the ticket should be what pays for

696
00:30:01,373 --> 00:30:03,213
Speaker 2: that to exist. So the price on the city rail

697
00:30:03,213 --> 00:30:05,973
Speaker 2: link should be what pays for its operation and pays

698
00:30:05,973 --> 00:30:07,973
Speaker 2: off your investment in it. I mean sure that'll be

699
00:30:08,013 --> 00:30:09,693
Speaker 2: a hundred fifty dollars to get into town.

700
00:30:09,773 --> 00:30:12,693
Speaker 3: Yeah, there's all at messes. We're coming to scandal. We're

701
00:30:12,693 --> 00:30:14,333
Speaker 3: going to create a correack this thing wide open. So

702
00:30:14,533 --> 00:30:15,333
Speaker 3: can someone work.

703
00:30:15,253 --> 00:30:18,573
Speaker 2: Out what the price would be from let's say New

704
00:30:18,733 --> 00:30:22,893
Speaker 2: Market to Britomart for a ticket if that ticket was

705
00:30:22,973 --> 00:30:25,813
Speaker 2: not only paying for the cost to run the system,

706
00:30:26,613 --> 00:30:29,733
Speaker 2: but the cost to pay for pay for building it,

707
00:30:30,133 --> 00:30:32,013
Speaker 2: and what each ticket would be if you weren't being

708
00:30:32,013 --> 00:30:34,333
Speaker 2: subsidized by the taxpayer or the rate payer.

709
00:30:34,373 --> 00:30:36,253
Speaker 3: Yeah, if you've run the numbers, please, that would.

710
00:30:36,773 --> 00:30:38,773
Speaker 2: Be a really interesting number to know. Yeah, because then

711
00:30:38,853 --> 00:30:41,933
Speaker 2: maybe everyone on ketting the sale City railank could feel

712
00:30:42,013 --> 00:30:44,093
Speaker 2: very grateful to everyone that's actually paying for it.

713
00:30:44,213 --> 00:30:46,173
Speaker 3: So true nine two nine too, if you've run those numbers,

714
00:30:46,213 --> 00:30:49,733
Speaker 3: would be very interested to see that. But keep those

715
00:30:49,773 --> 00:30:51,533
Speaker 3: techs coming through nine two nine two and taking your

716
00:30:51,573 --> 00:30:52,933
Speaker 3: calls on our one hundred and eight ten eighty.

717
00:30:53,053 --> 00:30:55,173
Speaker 2: Hi, Matt, I love public transport. You get to see

718
00:30:55,253 --> 00:30:57,173
Speaker 2: much more than wind driving. I'm sure it would be

719
00:30:57,213 --> 00:31:00,173
Speaker 2: the same for you in your chauffeur driven roller. Big Dave,

720
00:31:00,293 --> 00:31:01,933
Speaker 2: good on your big good day, Big day. Thanks for

721
00:31:01,933 --> 00:31:04,173
Speaker 2: your text sixteen to two to have a.

722
00:31:04,213 --> 00:31:10,373
Speaker 1: Chad with Matt and Tyler on even Adam's Afternoons with Skoda.

723
00:31:10,533 --> 00:31:12,653
Speaker 1: Can you crack the scoder code us dogs?

724
00:31:12,693 --> 00:31:16,813
Speaker 3: That'd be it is fourteen two two and welcome the show. Jef.

725
00:31:16,933 --> 00:31:19,773
Speaker 3: Your thoughts, hey, do it boy, It's gonna be honest

726
00:31:19,813 --> 00:31:21,853
Speaker 3: with you. Please please do mate.

727
00:31:22,173 --> 00:31:26,093
Speaker 7: Public transfer in Auckland is worse than Goneria on Valentine's Day.

728
00:31:27,053 --> 00:31:27,973
Speaker 2: Just trying weak that out.

729
00:31:28,093 --> 00:31:29,493
Speaker 3: Right out there. I mean, that's that's a bad day

730
00:31:29,493 --> 00:31:30,213
Speaker 3: on Valentine's Day.

731
00:31:30,213 --> 00:31:34,093
Speaker 2: Get my calculator out and yeah, you know, you hop

732
00:31:34,173 --> 00:31:37,853
Speaker 2: onto a tube full of sickness with wheezing people and.

733
00:31:38,053 --> 00:31:43,013
Speaker 7: Babies crying, and no, you can make more money, but

734
00:31:43,133 --> 00:31:44,493
Speaker 7: you can never get your time back.

735
00:31:45,013 --> 00:31:47,773
Speaker 3: Why would you waste it in a trap of disease.

736
00:31:48,013 --> 00:31:50,853
Speaker 7: And you're stuck and it takes for ever to get anywhere.

737
00:31:51,373 --> 00:31:53,813
Speaker 7: Even if they had Google on their foreheads, they still

738
00:31:53,853 --> 00:31:56,013
Speaker 7: can't find where they're going and turn up on time.

739
00:31:56,333 --> 00:31:57,253
Speaker 7: It's ridiculous.

740
00:31:58,373 --> 00:32:00,253
Speaker 2: Do you when was the last time you took public transport?

741
00:32:00,333 --> 00:32:07,373
Speaker 7: Jeff in New Zealand? Maybe twenty years back in Australia.

742
00:32:07,413 --> 00:32:10,373
Speaker 7: It's cracking, mate. You just the connected and Brizzie. You

743
00:32:10,493 --> 00:32:12,413
Speaker 7: just pop off a plane on a bus stop, on

744
00:32:12,453 --> 00:32:14,333
Speaker 7: a train or cabs waiting for you.

745
00:32:14,973 --> 00:32:15,853
Speaker 3: It's pretty good in mouch.

746
00:32:17,653 --> 00:32:19,693
Speaker 7: My poor daughter is to use public transport. Mate, it

747
00:32:19,733 --> 00:32:21,493
Speaker 7: took like three and a half hours to get home

748
00:32:21,533 --> 00:32:22,053
Speaker 7: from the city.

749
00:32:22,613 --> 00:32:24,253
Speaker 3: Cheer right now, it's harsh.

750
00:32:24,453 --> 00:32:25,213
Speaker 9: Yeah you good.

751
00:32:25,493 --> 00:32:28,493
Speaker 2: Yeah she recovered from the sickness.

752
00:32:29,493 --> 00:32:32,893
Speaker 3: Yeah, yes, mate, Thanks for you call. Jeff, it's a

753
00:32:32,933 --> 00:32:33,173
Speaker 3: big no.

754
00:32:33,573 --> 00:32:36,333
Speaker 2: Six is just a bit of misinformation from your radio station.

755
00:32:37,013 --> 00:32:39,733
Speaker 2: Public transport is a public good, so it should be

756
00:32:39,813 --> 00:32:42,493
Speaker 2: run as such, and it should be entirely subsidized. I

757
00:32:42,613 --> 00:32:46,053
Speaker 2: see what the petrol crisis. The Germans have made public

758
00:32:46,093 --> 00:32:48,493
Speaker 2: transport free to help people. Of course, our government is

759
00:32:48,533 --> 00:32:51,733
Speaker 2: still running around with a head cut off, trying to

760
00:32:51,773 --> 00:32:54,333
Speaker 2: decide how to advantage the rich while making sure that

761
00:32:54,453 --> 00:32:57,013
Speaker 2: the poor pay for everything. Maybe we should take off

762
00:32:57,093 --> 00:32:59,693
Speaker 2: public transport subsidies for people over sixty five. I don't

763
00:32:59,773 --> 00:33:02,453
Speaker 2: like that idea. It would disadvantage me in the future.

764
00:33:02,533 --> 00:33:04,333
Speaker 2: I don't think the city rail link is going to

765
00:33:04,373 --> 00:33:06,693
Speaker 2: add a very large amount to the subsidy because it's

766
00:33:06,773 --> 00:33:11,253
Speaker 2: only an extra kilometers. Well, I mean that is not

767
00:33:11,373 --> 00:33:14,453
Speaker 2: true that the poor pay for you know what you're

768
00:33:14,493 --> 00:33:20,093
Speaker 2: saying here, that they're where was it here a radio

769
00:33:20,133 --> 00:33:25,613
Speaker 2: station public good Germans. The government is still running around

770
00:33:25,893 --> 00:33:27,413
Speaker 2: with a head cut off, trying to decide how to

771
00:33:27,493 --> 00:33:30,333
Speaker 2: advantage the rich while making sure the poor pay for everything. Well,

772
00:33:30,333 --> 00:33:32,093
Speaker 2: you wouldn't say that with the city railing, would you,

773
00:33:32,293 --> 00:33:34,653
Speaker 2: Because the average increase in rates to pay for the

774
00:33:34,773 --> 00:33:37,493
Speaker 2: operation of the city railing, not the tax to pay,

775
00:33:37,933 --> 00:33:41,293
Speaker 2: not to pay back the five point five billion minimum

776
00:33:41,333 --> 00:33:43,173
Speaker 2: that they're spent on building it, just to run it.

777
00:33:44,253 --> 00:33:48,413
Speaker 2: So the primarily people that won't be using it because

778
00:33:48,413 --> 00:33:50,493
Speaker 2: it doesn't go to a lot of places that people use, right,

779
00:33:51,253 --> 00:33:54,213
Speaker 2: So that's a minimum of three hundred, No, an average

780
00:33:54,213 --> 00:33:56,573
Speaker 2: of three hundred and twenty. The increase which is the largest,

781
00:33:56,613 --> 00:33:59,253
Speaker 2: intro to an extra three hundred and twenty per year

782
00:33:59,293 --> 00:34:02,013
Speaker 2: for the average household. So the people who are not

783
00:34:02,093 --> 00:34:04,893
Speaker 2: in the average household, the people in the so called

784
00:34:04,933 --> 00:34:07,373
Speaker 2: rich that you're running down text, they will be paying

785
00:34:07,893 --> 00:34:09,652
Speaker 2: out of a more for the city rail link, they

786
00:34:09,692 --> 00:34:12,973
Speaker 2: certainly will. So then the poor we'll be paying for it.

787
00:34:13,453 --> 00:34:16,013
Speaker 3: And just on I looked at what the overall subsidy

788
00:34:16,093 --> 00:34:17,933
Speaker 3: is or how much Auckland is on average are paying

789
00:34:17,933 --> 00:34:20,053
Speaker 3: for public transport, whether they use them or not. So

790
00:34:20,693 --> 00:34:23,413
Speaker 3: for each person who uses public transport, auckland Is are

791
00:34:23,413 --> 00:34:27,093
Speaker 3: subsidizing four dollars seventy So you add that to eighty's

792
00:34:27,493 --> 00:34:30,732
Speaker 3: calculation of four dollars ninety so that turns into nine

793
00:34:30,813 --> 00:34:33,813
Speaker 3: dollars and sixty cents. So that's all part of the equation.

794
00:34:33,933 --> 00:34:36,573
Speaker 3: It's just a bit of honesty about what it actually

795
00:34:36,693 --> 00:34:38,413
Speaker 3: costs to run that network.

796
00:34:38,533 --> 00:34:42,813
Speaker 2: Yeah, with me, it's not including the insurance and the

797
00:34:44,413 --> 00:34:47,373
Speaker 2: depreciation of the car in the garage. When you're on

798
00:34:47,453 --> 00:34:51,533
Speaker 2: public transport, then you have to equally add those figures

799
00:34:51,573 --> 00:34:55,173
Speaker 2: to your side of it to support the public transport, right, yeah, exactly, Ashwyn,

800
00:34:55,253 --> 00:34:56,093
Speaker 2: your thoughts.

801
00:34:57,893 --> 00:35:00,133
Speaker 18: Yeah, hey, hey, thanks for taking me on the call.

802
00:35:00,293 --> 00:35:00,933
Speaker 2: Well thanks for ringing.

803
00:35:02,413 --> 00:35:05,693
Speaker 18: Yeah, so you know, I come from a very different

804
00:35:05,733 --> 00:35:10,093
Speaker 18: background here. So I have worked with multiple government organizations

805
00:35:10,133 --> 00:35:12,333
Speaker 18: who run public transport across the globe. So I worked

806
00:35:12,333 --> 00:35:15,813
Speaker 18: with London Transport, I worked with Singapore Transport.

807
00:35:15,973 --> 00:35:16,693
Speaker 6: I had worked in.

808
00:35:17,333 --> 00:35:21,333
Speaker 2: Did you say Singapore Singapore Transport, Well that's right, ma'am.

809
00:35:21,653 --> 00:35:25,493
Speaker 2: We're not saying a Singapore transport is impressive impressive stuff.

810
00:35:26,213 --> 00:35:29,013
Speaker 18: Yes, yes, So you know I worked for a software

811
00:35:29,093 --> 00:35:33,333
Speaker 18: company and also with PwC and Deloitte for addressing the

812
00:35:33,453 --> 00:35:37,172
Speaker 18: pricing issue, particularly in these transport companies, right and then

813
00:35:37,853 --> 00:35:41,893
Speaker 18: you know, so my background is very very data scientists

814
00:35:42,013 --> 00:35:45,853
Speaker 18: based and software development based, but I have built you know,

815
00:35:46,093 --> 00:35:50,093
Speaker 18: significant amount of pricing models why a public transport should

816
00:35:50,093 --> 00:35:52,772
Speaker 18: have a particular amount of ticket on a particular route.

817
00:35:53,093 --> 00:35:54,173
Speaker 7: That's what you know.

818
00:35:54,373 --> 00:35:56,573
Speaker 18: We were trying to address problems across the globe in

819
00:35:56,653 --> 00:35:59,732
Speaker 18: multiple countries. So there were two issues about it. One

820
00:35:59,973 --> 00:36:03,212
Speaker 18: was the routing. How intelligently can you build routing where

821
00:36:03,693 --> 00:36:06,493
Speaker 18: maximum number of people can use your public transport? That's

822
00:36:06,533 --> 00:36:09,973
Speaker 18: one which addresses the volume game yea. And also how

823
00:36:10,093 --> 00:36:13,333
Speaker 18: much price of the ticket on a particular route should be.

824
00:36:13,973 --> 00:36:17,573
Speaker 18: That can enhance you know, that can encourage people to

825
00:36:18,853 --> 00:36:21,853
Speaker 18: take the public transport more so that your subsidy cost

826
00:36:21,933 --> 00:36:25,213
Speaker 18: goes down. What what is happening is what I'm understanding

827
00:36:25,253 --> 00:36:27,133
Speaker 18: from the discussion that is going on right now, is

828
00:36:27,213 --> 00:36:30,133
Speaker 18: that the cost of running a public transport is about

829
00:36:30,213 --> 00:36:31,013
Speaker 18: nine dollars something.

830
00:36:31,333 --> 00:36:33,973
Speaker 2: Hey, Shwin, so we've just got a plan aid, could

831
00:36:34,013 --> 00:36:36,373
Speaker 2: you hold on a well to you when we get back.

832
00:36:36,413 --> 00:36:36,813
Speaker 15: Is that right?

833
00:36:36,853 --> 00:36:38,333
Speaker 2: Because I'm really interested in what you have to say.

834
00:36:38,413 --> 00:36:41,212
Speaker 3: Yeah, how they thought eshwind Baggery. Shortly there is eight

835
00:36:41,293 --> 00:36:41,733
Speaker 3: to two.

836
00:36:42,853 --> 00:36:46,413
Speaker 1: Matd Heath Tyler Adams taking your calls on eight hundred

837
00:36:46,413 --> 00:36:48,933
Speaker 1: and eighty ten eighty. It's Matt Heath and Tyler Adams

838
00:36:49,093 --> 00:36:50,333
Speaker 1: Afternoons News.

839
00:36:50,213 --> 00:36:54,213
Speaker 2: Talks fovet to two Shwyn, Thank you for holding on.

840
00:36:54,293 --> 00:36:57,893
Speaker 2: So you're talking about subsidy subsidies and public transport.

841
00:36:59,093 --> 00:37:01,453
Speaker 18: Yeah, so, but I was saying that I think we're

842
00:37:01,933 --> 00:37:04,413
Speaker 18: most of these companies, I mean the councils and the

843
00:37:04,533 --> 00:37:07,733
Speaker 18: transport companies. They have the view to the data and

844
00:37:07,813 --> 00:37:10,293
Speaker 18: how it works. So I think they need to work

845
00:37:10,413 --> 00:37:12,853
Speaker 18: on the other side of the modeling, the data modeling,

846
00:37:13,213 --> 00:37:15,893
Speaker 18: which instead of saying that hey, this is the cost

847
00:37:15,933 --> 00:37:17,413
Speaker 18: of it, and this is what I'm going to load

848
00:37:17,453 --> 00:37:19,933
Speaker 18: on each ticket, on each each each of the citizens

849
00:37:20,093 --> 00:37:23,973
Speaker 18: of that city, but instead how much pricing that I

850
00:37:24,013 --> 00:37:26,973
Speaker 18: should bring back to with the predictive data modeling and

851
00:37:27,093 --> 00:37:30,013
Speaker 18: say this is how if I keep the pricing at

852
00:37:30,093 --> 00:37:31,133
Speaker 18: that particular.

853
00:37:30,813 --> 00:37:33,253
Speaker 7: Level, it will increase the volumes and.

854
00:37:33,493 --> 00:37:38,773
Speaker 18: That will subsidize the whole transport rather than government socializing it. Actually,

855
00:37:39,133 --> 00:37:41,173
Speaker 18: so people who are using it, they will pay for

856
00:37:41,293 --> 00:37:44,973
Speaker 18: it more than government subsiizing it. So that's what the

857
00:37:45,093 --> 00:37:47,533
Speaker 18: take is. I think that that needs to get corrected

858
00:37:47,573 --> 00:37:49,933
Speaker 18: because currently what we are doing is I think people

859
00:37:49,973 --> 00:37:51,773
Speaker 18: are looking at how much does it cost to me

860
00:37:51,853 --> 00:37:53,773
Speaker 18: from point to A to point be my home to

861
00:37:53,853 --> 00:37:55,853
Speaker 18: my office, and then how much I pay for the

862
00:37:55,893 --> 00:37:58,813
Speaker 18: parking parking charges, and I think that is where somewhere

863
00:37:59,093 --> 00:38:01,533
Speaker 18: we are going wrong, because as somebody was mentioning, public

864
00:38:01,573 --> 00:38:04,573
Speaker 18: transfers is for the public good and they should maintain

865
00:38:04,693 --> 00:38:08,133
Speaker 18: that at the same time ensure that the cost is

866
00:38:08,413 --> 00:38:12,133
Speaker 18: can care by most of the users. That's what my

867
00:38:12,253 --> 00:38:13,693
Speaker 18: point is, and I don't want to take more.

868
00:38:13,573 --> 00:38:17,293
Speaker 3: Time, So no, thank you so muchs win Well said, yeah,

869
00:38:17,413 --> 00:38:20,573
Speaker 3: interesting point. Blames your point very well. Yeah, great discussion.

870
00:38:20,653 --> 00:38:23,212
Speaker 3: Thank you to Eshwin and everybody else who called at

871
00:38:23,293 --> 00:38:26,453
Speaker 3: your text as well, really appreciated. After two a clock

872
00:38:26,933 --> 00:38:30,733
Speaker 3: we have a chat about magic mushrooms on the mushies

873
00:38:30,813 --> 00:38:33,173
Speaker 3: after too, Oh waight, undred eighty ten eighty is that

874
00:38:33,293 --> 00:38:35,093
Speaker 3: number to call? Nine two ninety two is the text

875
00:38:35,173 --> 00:38:37,013
Speaker 3: number of new Sport and weather coming up? You listening

876
00:38:37,013 --> 00:38:38,653
Speaker 3: to Matt and Tyler Hoe. You having a great afternoon,

877
00:38:39,453 --> 00:38:41,213
Speaker 3: same big.

878
00:38:41,133 --> 00:38:45,973
Speaker 1: Stories, the big issues, the big trends and everything in between.

879
00:38:46,373 --> 00:38:46,653
Speaker 15: Kids.

880
00:38:46,733 --> 00:38:51,213
Speaker 1: Matt Heath and Tyler Adams. Afternoon, Squif Schoder News Talk said, be.

881
00:38:52,333 --> 00:38:54,613
Speaker 3: Welcome back into the show. It is six past two.

882
00:38:54,693 --> 00:38:57,093
Speaker 3: Really good having your company this afternoon. I hope you're

883
00:38:57,093 --> 00:38:59,733
Speaker 3: having a great day. And just a reminder, our mates

884
00:38:59,813 --> 00:39:02,133
Speaker 3: at Skoda want to send you and a friend to

885
00:39:02,213 --> 00:39:05,333
Speaker 3: experience the Tour de France when you play Scoda Code.

886
00:39:05,373 --> 00:39:07,413
Speaker 3: So if you need a bit of help with today's clue,

887
00:39:07,533 --> 00:39:10,093
Speaker 3: keep listening. We will have a clue for you a

888
00:39:10,133 --> 00:39:12,853
Speaker 3: little bit later this hour, but go check outsco dot

889
00:39:12,933 --> 00:39:16,093
Speaker 3: co dot nz for that clue coming for you very soon.

890
00:39:16,173 --> 00:39:18,693
Speaker 3: In the meantime, we do want to discuss an article

891
00:39:18,813 --> 00:39:21,613
Speaker 3: in the Herald. It reveals that a growing number of

892
00:39:21,853 --> 00:39:27,373
Speaker 3: Kiwis are finding relief from their physiological distress conditions by

893
00:39:27,533 --> 00:39:31,853
Speaker 3: using magic mushrooms. It points to emerging clinical evidence and

894
00:39:31,933 --> 00:39:37,173
Speaker 3: international studies which have found psilocybin assisted therapy can reduce

895
00:39:37,293 --> 00:39:43,253
Speaker 3: addictions and approve mental outcomes when in controlled therapeutic settings.

896
00:39:43,693 --> 00:39:46,493
Speaker 3: But as the drug is still a Class A substance,

897
00:39:47,093 --> 00:39:51,493
Speaker 3: there is growing underground movement of hidden retreats and foragers

898
00:39:51,933 --> 00:39:55,133
Speaker 3: who are actually out there looking for fungui to experience

899
00:39:55,373 --> 00:39:57,613
Speaker 3: a trip on magic mushrooms. Yeah, I've been following this

900
00:39:57,933 --> 00:39:58,333
Speaker 3: for a while.

901
00:39:58,333 --> 00:40:00,053
Speaker 2: I'll be reading about this, and there's a lot of

902
00:40:00,093 --> 00:40:05,133
Speaker 2: evidence that these psychedelic treatments can knock chronically depressed people

903
00:40:05,253 --> 00:40:08,813
Speaker 2: out of their debilitating funks in it and it just

904
00:40:08,893 --> 00:40:12,413
Speaker 2: takes you know, one or two controlled sessions in these findings,

905
00:40:12,453 --> 00:40:16,413
Speaker 2: whereas classic antidepressants are taken daily for years and years

906
00:40:16,493 --> 00:40:18,573
Speaker 2: and years and can be quite hard to get off.

907
00:40:19,293 --> 00:40:21,292
Speaker 2: So if you could take a trip in a lab

908
00:40:21,533 --> 00:40:24,813
Speaker 2: with a therapist and disrupt your negative thought patterns such

909
00:40:24,973 --> 00:40:27,373
Speaker 2: that you can get on with your life, would you

910
00:40:27,453 --> 00:40:31,813
Speaker 2: take it? Would you go on a couple of trips

911
00:40:32,333 --> 00:40:36,613
Speaker 2: in a lab to reset your negative thought patterns and

912
00:40:37,213 --> 00:40:40,453
Speaker 2: to up your serotonin levels, or as a trip on

913
00:40:40,493 --> 00:40:42,413
Speaker 2: an a glass drug? Just a step too far when

914
00:40:42,453 --> 00:40:46,453
Speaker 2: it comes to yours or other New Zealander's mental health,

915
00:40:46,493 --> 00:40:50,173
Speaker 2: because it's an interesting thing. We allow some drugs, and

916
00:40:50,573 --> 00:40:53,853
Speaker 2: antidepressants are drugs. You take them over a very long

917
00:40:53,933 --> 00:40:57,933
Speaker 2: period of time and they affect your serentonin serotonin levels

918
00:40:57,933 --> 00:41:00,453
Speaker 2: in your brain. But there are some questions about them.

919
00:41:00,853 --> 00:41:03,333
Speaker 2: And you know, something that you have to do for

920
00:41:04,333 --> 00:41:07,693
Speaker 2: a very very long time every day that's quite a commitment,

921
00:41:07,773 --> 00:41:10,333
Speaker 2: right it is. But just going to a lad and

922
00:41:11,893 --> 00:41:17,573
Speaker 2: having a psychedelic experience and having things reset such you

923
00:41:17,613 --> 00:41:19,933
Speaker 2: can get on with your life. Surely that's a pretty

924
00:41:19,933 --> 00:41:20,213
Speaker 2: good thing.

925
00:41:20,453 --> 00:41:21,493
Speaker 3: Sounds like a good thing to me.

926
00:41:21,733 --> 00:41:26,853
Speaker 2: And why is that psychedelic drug bad and the antidepressant

927
00:41:26,893 --> 00:41:27,933
Speaker 2: drug good?

928
00:41:28,653 --> 00:41:30,413
Speaker 3: Because there's a lot of history behind it, isn't it.

929
00:41:30,493 --> 00:41:32,893
Speaker 3: You know that the War on drugs back in the

930
00:41:32,933 --> 00:41:35,013
Speaker 3: seventies has that connotation when it comes to these A

931
00:41:35,133 --> 00:41:39,733
Speaker 3: class drugs. But if this research continues showing promising results,

932
00:41:39,893 --> 00:41:44,853
Speaker 3: and as the article mentions, is undertaken in therapeutical sessions,

933
00:41:44,973 --> 00:41:46,732
Speaker 3: that to me makes a lot more sense than people

934
00:41:46,813 --> 00:41:50,333
Speaker 3: going out foraging trying to find magic mushrooms and taking

935
00:41:50,413 --> 00:41:54,333
Speaker 3: it themselves and arguably having far too big a dose

936
00:41:54,453 --> 00:41:55,613
Speaker 3: that might go a little bit wrong.

937
00:41:55,853 --> 00:41:59,013
Speaker 2: Well, it is interesting, isn't it. Because antidepressants don't grow

938
00:41:59,253 --> 00:42:01,853
Speaker 2: in the wood chips are on the side of roads.

939
00:42:02,333 --> 00:42:04,613
Speaker 3: Yeah, exactly, highly processed.

940
00:42:04,613 --> 00:42:06,453
Speaker 2: They don't pop out of the ground after a frost.

941
00:42:06,893 --> 00:42:07,093
Speaker 9: Yeah.

942
00:42:07,253 --> 00:42:09,413
Speaker 2: When I was a kid's my mum because on our

943
00:42:09,493 --> 00:42:11,933
Speaker 2: farm there was an area where lots of magic mushrooms grew.

944
00:42:12,173 --> 00:42:14,053
Speaker 2: And I just remember we were walking around once he goes,

945
00:42:14,133 --> 00:42:16,813
Speaker 2: never eat those, and I said why, and she goes,

946
00:42:17,093 --> 00:42:18,853
Speaker 2: They'll make you see things that don't exist. And I

947
00:42:18,933 --> 00:42:21,693
Speaker 2: was like, oh, okay, is that right? Ma okay, noted

948
00:42:22,053 --> 00:42:23,773
Speaker 2: that sounds interesting. She was a bad way to tell

949
00:42:23,813 --> 00:42:25,653
Speaker 2: me not to eat those, very bad way. She should

950
00:42:25,693 --> 00:42:27,253
Speaker 2: have told me that, you know, they'll kill me.

951
00:42:27,373 --> 00:42:28,053
Speaker 3: Yeah, you will die.

952
00:42:28,133 --> 00:42:29,893
Speaker 2: But she was a very honest woman. She said they'll

953
00:42:29,933 --> 00:42:32,773
Speaker 2: make you see things that aren't there. I was like, well, okay, okay, okay.

954
00:42:34,093 --> 00:42:36,652
Speaker 2: And that's that's the part of it. Because because there's

955
00:42:36,693 --> 00:42:39,053
Speaker 2: been a lot of research done, and I've read about

956
00:42:39,093 --> 00:42:41,652
Speaker 2: the stuff out of John Hopkins, and there's been meta

957
00:42:41,693 --> 00:42:43,933
Speaker 2: studies that have shown these things. And it's hard to

958
00:42:43,973 --> 00:42:47,053
Speaker 2: tell if it's the actual drug that changes your brain

959
00:42:47,533 --> 00:42:50,732
Speaker 2: or whether it's just that you go on a life

960
00:42:50,813 --> 00:42:53,253
Speaker 2: change you have a life changing experience that resets the

961
00:42:53,333 --> 00:42:55,252
Speaker 2: way you look at things.

962
00:42:55,613 --> 00:42:55,813
Speaker 15: Yeah.

963
00:42:56,093 --> 00:43:00,373
Speaker 2: So it's an interesting one. And you know, we know

964
00:43:00,573 --> 00:43:04,093
Speaker 2: that depression is a serious, serious thing in modern life,

965
00:43:04,453 --> 00:43:07,413
Speaker 2: and it's and it's ruining a lot of lives, making

966
00:43:08,053 --> 00:43:12,453
Speaker 2: very very hard for people to participate in society. And

967
00:43:13,613 --> 00:43:17,133
Speaker 2: what we're currently doing doesn't seem to be making things better.

968
00:43:17,413 --> 00:43:19,333
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, exactly, So is the time to do.

969
00:43:20,893 --> 00:43:24,213
Speaker 2: Some more of this, some more of something crazy.

970
00:43:24,333 --> 00:43:25,733
Speaker 3: Give us a bar z o eight one hundred and

971
00:43:25,773 --> 00:43:29,093
Speaker 3: eighty ten eighty so psilocybern or magriic mushrooms. Would you

972
00:43:29,253 --> 00:43:32,133
Speaker 3: take it to alleviate some mental health issues or do

973
00:43:32,213 --> 00:43:34,693
Speaker 3: you think it would be a trip to far for

974
00:43:34,813 --> 00:43:41,133
Speaker 3: you and your family? A two seah Coming up next,

975
00:43:41,173 --> 00:43:42,813
Speaker 3: we are going to have a chat to an Auckland

976
00:43:42,893 --> 00:43:47,893
Speaker 3: University researcher. He has been studying the use of psilocybin

977
00:43:48,093 --> 00:43:52,293
Speaker 3: around the country and its effects on those people with

978
00:43:52,373 --> 00:43:54,652
Speaker 3: addictionate issues and mental health issues. So we go are

979
00:43:54,653 --> 00:43:57,013
Speaker 3: going to have a chat with him very shortly, but

980
00:43:57,133 --> 00:43:58,053
Speaker 3: keep those techs coming through.

981
00:43:58,413 --> 00:44:00,453
Speaker 2: Texts just came through. You can go to hell with

982
00:44:00,533 --> 00:44:04,573
Speaker 2: your magic mushrooms, okay, all right, all right, Well people

983
00:44:04,733 --> 00:44:06,893
Speaker 2: can go to hell in their psychedelic experiences and have

984
00:44:07,013 --> 00:44:09,133
Speaker 2: terrible times. That's why these ones done. With the therapist

985
00:44:09,213 --> 00:44:09,733
Speaker 2: in the room.

986
00:44:09,653 --> 00:44:11,573
Speaker 3: They certainly can. And just thank you for your text

987
00:44:11,653 --> 00:44:13,493
Speaker 3: And just quickly, we've had a couple of techs about

988
00:44:14,173 --> 00:44:16,933
Speaker 3: a fire within Auckland City. So there's a couple of

989
00:44:16,973 --> 00:44:20,253
Speaker 3: techs coming through. There's a very large apartment fire in Auckland, CBD. Lads,

990
00:44:20,293 --> 00:44:23,013
Speaker 3: what's happening in Auckland City with all the fire? So

991
00:44:23,093 --> 00:44:25,172
Speaker 3: our newsroom is on to that and as soon as

992
00:44:25,213 --> 00:44:26,813
Speaker 3: we know, we will bring you an update on what

993
00:44:26,933 --> 00:44:30,053
Speaker 3: is going on in that situation. But on the magic mushrooms. Oh,

994
00:44:30,053 --> 00:44:32,053
Speaker 3: eight hundred and eighty ten eighty is that number to

995
00:44:32,133 --> 00:44:33,773
Speaker 3: call back very shortly. It is twelve past two.

996
00:44:34,253 --> 00:44:38,693
Speaker 1: Wow your home of afternoon talk, Mad Heathen Taylor Adams

997
00:44:38,853 --> 00:44:43,013
Speaker 1: afternoons call, Oh eight hundred eighty ten eighty youth talk, zib.

998
00:44:44,813 --> 00:44:46,853
Speaker 3: It is a quarter past too. So we are discussing

999
00:44:46,893 --> 00:44:49,613
Speaker 3: the rise of research into psilocyber and that's the act

1000
00:44:49,653 --> 00:44:52,573
Speaker 3: of compound in magic mushrooms in treating mental health and

1001
00:44:52,693 --> 00:44:56,013
Speaker 3: addiction issues. A man who has been researching this at

1002
00:44:56,133 --> 00:45:00,693
Speaker 3: length is Auckland University researcher Samuel Lasham, who joins us

1003
00:45:00,733 --> 00:45:02,733
Speaker 3: on the program. Now, Samuel, very good afternoons.

1004
00:45:02,773 --> 00:45:05,493
Speaker 14: You hey you too, thank you for having me on.

1005
00:45:06,173 --> 00:45:09,333
Speaker 2: So everyone knows about magic mushroom, but they may not

1006
00:45:09,493 --> 00:45:12,613
Speaker 2: know about psilocybin, the active part. So briefly, what is

1007
00:45:12,653 --> 00:45:15,013
Speaker 2: psilocybin and what is sort of cyberin therapy?

1008
00:45:16,453 --> 00:45:16,652
Speaker 14: Yeah?

1009
00:45:16,733 --> 00:45:21,693
Speaker 19: So Psilocybin is basically the active ingredient in the mushrooms themselves.

1010
00:45:21,773 --> 00:45:24,933
Speaker 19: Once it comes into the body, it's converted into another drug, silicen,

1011
00:45:24,973 --> 00:45:28,773
Speaker 19: and it's essentially just a psychedelic similar to LSD that

1012
00:45:28,893 --> 00:45:31,333
Speaker 19: a lot of people have heard about. So that gets

1013
00:45:31,333 --> 00:45:36,133
Speaker 19: into your brain, causes a lot of sensory, bodily, auditory,

1014
00:45:36,213 --> 00:45:41,613
Speaker 19: visual hallucinations, things like that. Psychedelic therapy is essentially the

1015
00:45:41,773 --> 00:45:44,493
Speaker 19: use of that in a therapeutic context to try and

1016
00:45:44,813 --> 00:45:49,133
Speaker 19: treat mental health disorders. Typically, what we talk about is

1017
00:45:49,173 --> 00:45:52,453
Speaker 19: psychedelic assisted therapy, so it's not just giving them this

1018
00:45:52,573 --> 00:45:54,613
Speaker 19: drug and everyone gets better, but it's also done in

1019
00:45:54,653 --> 00:45:57,973
Speaker 19: a whole regime of talking therapy and stuff.

1020
00:45:57,973 --> 00:46:00,172
Speaker 14: You're more traditional therapy types alongside that as well.

1021
00:46:00,413 --> 00:46:03,213
Speaker 2: You will tell us about how you administer it, because

1022
00:46:03,333 --> 00:46:06,773
Speaker 2: classic antidepressants people take every day for years. But if

1023
00:46:07,773 --> 00:46:11,692
Speaker 2: I was just up for porlocybin therapy, what would actually happen?

1024
00:46:11,773 --> 00:46:14,293
Speaker 2: How many times do you take it? Where what happens

1025
00:46:14,333 --> 00:46:15,172
Speaker 2: in the session? Sam?

1026
00:46:16,453 --> 00:46:20,333
Speaker 19: Yeah, So usually it's sort of anywhere from like one

1027
00:46:20,373 --> 00:46:23,413
Speaker 19: to three sessions is how most of the people have

1028
00:46:23,533 --> 00:46:26,973
Speaker 19: been doing it. In clinical trials. Each of those sessions.

1029
00:46:27,133 --> 00:46:29,333
Speaker 19: Someone takes the drug, but that is part of a

1030
00:46:29,373 --> 00:46:31,933
Speaker 19: broader thing, so they'll be like, you know, sometimes quite

1031
00:46:31,973 --> 00:46:34,692
Speaker 19: a few preparation sessions where people will go in, they'll

1032
00:46:34,693 --> 00:46:37,333
Speaker 19: meet the therapists that might actually administer the dose, they'll

1033
00:46:37,573 --> 00:46:38,973
Speaker 19: get familiar, they'll sort of talk.

1034
00:46:38,893 --> 00:46:41,293
Speaker 14: Through the things that they want to work through.

1035
00:46:41,893 --> 00:46:45,133
Speaker 19: Then they'll have a dose session, which will unlike the

1036
00:46:45,173 --> 00:46:47,172
Speaker 19: other sessions, which will be more standard therapy for an

1037
00:46:47,173 --> 00:46:51,053
Speaker 19: hour that will be like a solid whole day experience,

1038
00:46:51,893 --> 00:46:54,333
Speaker 19: or like six to eight hours, and then they have

1039
00:46:54,453 --> 00:46:58,213
Speaker 19: sessions of what they call integration afterwards, and that's essentially

1040
00:46:58,293 --> 00:47:00,893
Speaker 19: trying to integrate things that you've learned throughout that experience

1041
00:47:01,053 --> 00:47:03,493
Speaker 19: and so on and so forth back into your life

1042
00:47:03,533 --> 00:47:06,613
Speaker 19: and trying to actually create lasting change to get out

1043
00:47:06,653 --> 00:47:07,813
Speaker 19: of these negative thought patterns.

1044
00:47:07,853 --> 00:47:12,373
Speaker 2: Really, what kind of dosages would would people take of psilocybin?

1045
00:47:12,653 --> 00:47:16,333
Speaker 2: Are we getting to the stage of hallucinations.

1046
00:47:18,053 --> 00:47:19,173
Speaker 14: In a therapeutic context.

1047
00:47:19,333 --> 00:47:24,733
Speaker 19: Yeah, it's difficult when we compare a clinical trial to

1048
00:47:24,893 --> 00:47:27,732
Speaker 19: what happens in the real world, because clinical trials they're

1049
00:47:27,773 --> 00:47:33,493
Speaker 19: using pure psilocybin, whereas in the real world we're using mushrooms.

1050
00:47:33,733 --> 00:47:37,613
Speaker 19: And until my research not really anyone has any way

1051
00:47:37,693 --> 00:47:40,133
Speaker 19: to actually look into and work out just how much

1052
00:47:40,213 --> 00:47:42,973
Speaker 19: of that psilocybin is actually in the mushrooms they're consuming

1053
00:47:43,013 --> 00:47:43,533
Speaker 19: in New Zealand.

1054
00:47:43,653 --> 00:47:46,053
Speaker 2: Oh, that's a good point. Yeah. Now, now looking at

1055
00:47:46,453 --> 00:47:49,133
Speaker 2: MESA analysis, so I was investigating this and bringing together

1056
00:47:49,213 --> 00:47:53,413
Speaker 2: studies from John Hopkins and others the university. The results

1057
00:47:53,733 --> 00:47:57,733
Speaker 2: they seem pretty strong with respect to major depressive disorders

1058
00:47:57,813 --> 00:48:02,773
Speaker 2: and treatment resistant depression. So can you describe the results

1059
00:48:02,813 --> 00:48:04,212
Speaker 2: that that you're that you've seen.

1060
00:48:06,093 --> 00:48:08,573
Speaker 19: Yeah, So my study is very much focusing on real

1061
00:48:08,613 --> 00:48:12,533
Speaker 19: world juice, so we're not doing sort of the clinical

1062
00:48:12,573 --> 00:48:16,053
Speaker 19: trial type stuff. Not many of our participants are using

1063
00:48:17,053 --> 00:48:20,652
Speaker 19: They're not going through this sort of therapeutic pathway. They're

1064
00:48:20,733 --> 00:48:22,813
Speaker 19: very much just people out there in the real world

1065
00:48:22,853 --> 00:48:26,893
Speaker 19: picking mushrooms off the road sides and consuming consuming them,

1066
00:48:27,093 --> 00:48:30,573
Speaker 19: some of whom are using therapeutically, some are using for

1067
00:48:30,733 --> 00:48:33,773
Speaker 19: spiritual or recreational purposes. As much greater diversity as you'd

1068
00:48:33,813 --> 00:48:38,213
Speaker 19: see in clinical trials. But yeah, I mean, most of

1069
00:48:38,373 --> 00:48:40,973
Speaker 19: most of my participants sort of say to me that

1070
00:48:41,893 --> 00:48:45,093
Speaker 19: they find, whether they're people with mental health disorders or

1071
00:48:45,133 --> 00:48:47,093
Speaker 19: other people, that they do find that this has been

1072
00:48:47,133 --> 00:48:51,292
Speaker 19: really beneficial to their mental health, but that's not valid

1073
00:48:51,653 --> 00:48:55,133
Speaker 19: validated obviously out by the rigorous nature of a clinical trial.

1074
00:48:56,333 --> 00:48:59,053
Speaker 2: But it is illegal, isn't it To come across some

1075
00:48:59,573 --> 00:49:02,173
Speaker 2: wood chips and you see some certain mushrooms there and

1076
00:49:02,213 --> 00:49:03,813
Speaker 2: then you put them in your mouth. That's a highly

1077
00:49:03,853 --> 00:49:05,133
Speaker 2: illegal activity, isn't it.

1078
00:49:05,213 --> 00:49:07,973
Speaker 14: Sim Well, yeah, exactly.

1079
00:49:08,053 --> 00:49:09,733
Speaker 19: And a lot of the people I talk to actually

1080
00:49:10,093 --> 00:49:13,773
Speaker 19: say to me that probably they don't really find themselves

1081
00:49:13,813 --> 00:49:16,093
Speaker 19: that their mushroom use causes them much harm, But the

1082
00:49:16,213 --> 00:49:18,493
Speaker 19: one real thing that does worry them that could cause

1083
00:49:18,533 --> 00:49:21,933
Speaker 19: them harm is actually that legal issue. And I think

1084
00:49:21,973 --> 00:49:24,013
Speaker 19: that also creates a lot of stigma for these people.

1085
00:49:25,573 --> 00:49:28,093
Speaker 19: And when we have people who, you know, particularly the

1086
00:49:28,133 --> 00:49:30,093
Speaker 19: mental health context, a lot of the people I talk

1087
00:49:30,173 --> 00:49:33,333
Speaker 19: to are people who have tried all of the legal

1088
00:49:33,413 --> 00:49:35,893
Speaker 19: things and it hasn't worked for them. So they've now

1089
00:49:36,013 --> 00:49:38,172
Speaker 19: turned to a point of they're like, Okay, well, now

1090
00:49:38,213 --> 00:49:39,773
Speaker 19: I'm going to have to break this law.

1091
00:49:40,333 --> 00:49:41,853
Speaker 14: And suddenly we have this intersection.

1092
00:49:41,973 --> 00:49:44,252
Speaker 19: And we talk about the stigmatization of people with mental

1093
00:49:44,293 --> 00:49:47,413
Speaker 19: health difficulties, but that's now intersecting also with the stigmatization

1094
00:49:47,493 --> 00:49:50,413
Speaker 19: of people doing criminal activities, and it can leave people

1095
00:49:50,453 --> 00:49:51,493
Speaker 19: in quite a vulnerable place.

1096
00:49:52,213 --> 00:49:54,853
Speaker 3: It can also, you know, go the other way, can't it.

1097
00:49:54,933 --> 00:49:57,333
Speaker 3: Simuel that I noted that in the article there was

1098
00:49:57,373 --> 00:49:59,573
Speaker 3: a gentleman called Adam. I assume that was a pseudonym,

1099
00:49:59,573 --> 00:50:02,053
Speaker 3: but he had a problem with methamphetamine and he used

1100
00:50:02,453 --> 00:50:06,093
Speaker 3: psilocyber and magic mushrooms to aid in that addiction and

1101
00:50:06,333 --> 00:50:08,173
Speaker 3: it worked for him. But he made a point in

1102
00:50:08,173 --> 00:50:11,333
Speaker 3: the article that he's known some friends that have you know,

1103
00:50:11,413 --> 00:50:14,732
Speaker 3: pickedometric mushrooms and tried something similar and it's been quite

1104
00:50:14,813 --> 00:50:18,693
Speaker 3: damaging to their overall mental health. So there is that

1105
00:50:18,893 --> 00:50:22,413
Speaker 3: danger element if it's not in the therapeutic setting.

1106
00:50:22,293 --> 00:50:26,613
Speaker 19: Right, Well, yeah, and you know, I'd argue that's risk

1107
00:50:26,773 --> 00:50:29,493
Speaker 19: is it doesn't get completely eradicated in a therapeutic setting

1108
00:50:29,533 --> 00:50:33,653
Speaker 19: as well. Right, we're still really investigating and understanding this,

1109
00:50:33,853 --> 00:50:36,253
Speaker 19: and there's no such thing as a silver bullet in

1110
00:50:36,333 --> 00:50:42,933
Speaker 19: this world, quite frankly, but I think that comes you know,

1111
00:50:43,653 --> 00:50:46,493
Speaker 19: we need to learn to work out the science and

1112
00:50:46,573 --> 00:50:49,893
Speaker 19: better understand what sort of people might be pushed in

1113
00:50:49,933 --> 00:50:51,693
Speaker 19: the right direction and what sort of people might be

1114
00:50:51,773 --> 00:50:54,253
Speaker 19: pushed in the wrong direction. And probably what is more

1115
00:50:54,333 --> 00:51:00,093
Speaker 19: the case is what sort of settings and and things

1116
00:51:01,453 --> 00:51:05,013
Speaker 19: might cause more positive or more negative experiences. I you know,

1117
00:51:05,173 --> 00:51:08,213
Speaker 19: someone taking mushrooms where they have absolutely no idea what

1118
00:51:08,373 --> 00:51:10,333
Speaker 19: they're taking. There's a chance they might have even picked

1119
00:51:10,373 --> 00:51:12,893
Speaker 19: the wrong thing, and taking it out in the real

1120
00:51:12,973 --> 00:51:17,693
Speaker 19: world can be vastly different too, using and using in

1121
00:51:17,773 --> 00:51:18,093
Speaker 19: a lab.

1122
00:51:19,093 --> 00:51:22,453
Speaker 2: So why do you think it works? You know that

1123
00:51:22,813 --> 00:51:25,053
Speaker 2: it seems there seems to be strong evidence that it

1124
00:51:25,173 --> 00:51:28,373
Speaker 2: works in helping people with the depression. But is it

1125
00:51:28,533 --> 00:51:31,453
Speaker 2: a chemical effect in the brain or is it that

1126
00:51:31,573 --> 00:51:35,253
Speaker 2: a mystical experience breaks you out of you know, rumination

1127
00:51:35,573 --> 00:51:39,013
Speaker 2: and the neural pathways that you're stuck in. What's it

1128
00:51:39,093 --> 00:51:42,573
Speaker 2: called the default mode network? Is it fixing your brain

1129
00:51:42,893 --> 00:51:45,733
Speaker 2: or resetting your brain by knocking you out of a

1130
00:51:46,013 --> 00:51:48,373
Speaker 2: depressive rut? If you get what I mean? Is it

1131
00:51:49,773 --> 00:51:53,573
Speaker 2: is it that the drugs are medicating your brain or

1132
00:51:53,693 --> 00:51:56,733
Speaker 2: is it that the experience is changing the way you

1133
00:51:56,853 --> 00:52:00,653
Speaker 2: perceive reality such that you are no longer in a

1134
00:52:00,693 --> 00:52:03,053
Speaker 2: depressive cycle. I'm not sure if I've asked a very

1135
00:52:03,173 --> 00:52:04,613
Speaker 2: easy to answer a question there.

1136
00:52:05,733 --> 00:52:07,893
Speaker 14: Yeah, yeah, exactly, it is.

1137
00:52:08,773 --> 00:52:11,133
Speaker 19: It's a difficult one to work out, and I think also,

1138
00:52:11,653 --> 00:52:13,893
Speaker 19: you know, I think we're still figuring out what it

1139
00:52:13,973 --> 00:52:17,813
Speaker 19: actually does. We see with antidepressants, people talked about that

1140
00:52:17,893 --> 00:52:20,253
Speaker 19: being a chemical imbalance for so long and then actually,

1141
00:52:20,333 --> 00:52:21,973
Speaker 19: I think most of the evidence now is saying that

1142
00:52:22,053 --> 00:52:25,973
Speaker 19: that doesn't really seem to be the case, and must

1143
00:52:26,013 --> 00:52:30,212
Speaker 19: rooms they're still working it out. I think the main

1144
00:52:30,293 --> 00:52:33,093
Speaker 19: explainer that people love to say is that idea of

1145
00:52:33,533 --> 00:52:36,453
Speaker 19: you know, you get into this really entrenched pattern of

1146
00:52:36,733 --> 00:52:40,453
Speaker 19: negative thought patterns and ruminating over on the same things repeatedly,

1147
00:52:40,533 --> 00:52:42,293
Speaker 19: and this helps sort of snap you out of that.

1148
00:52:44,853 --> 00:52:46,733
Speaker 14: I think, you know that there might be something to that.

1149
00:52:46,853 --> 00:52:48,693
Speaker 14: I think a lot of people who I.

1150
00:52:48,813 --> 00:52:51,893
Speaker 19: Talk to, they say it helps them sort of step

1151
00:52:52,013 --> 00:52:54,413
Speaker 19: back and be a bit more objective about what's going

1152
00:52:54,453 --> 00:52:56,973
Speaker 19: on in their life, how they're feeling, or sort of

1153
00:52:57,093 --> 00:52:59,693
Speaker 19: just try and reevaluate or think a bit differently about

1154
00:52:59,973 --> 00:53:02,172
Speaker 19: where their brain's at and what's going on in their life,

1155
00:53:02,213 --> 00:53:05,172
Speaker 19: and try to help them to sort of move changes, sorry,

1156
00:53:05,213 --> 00:53:08,772
Speaker 19: make changes going forward. Yeah, and I think that's where

1157
00:53:09,293 --> 00:53:11,533
Speaker 19: this sort of integration thing happens as well.

1158
00:53:11,653 --> 00:53:13,773
Speaker 14: That's a big part of psychedelic therapy.

1159
00:53:13,813 --> 00:53:16,333
Speaker 19: At the end, they have these sort of integration sessions

1160
00:53:16,373 --> 00:53:17,893
Speaker 19: of well, how do we sort of bring this stuff

1161
00:53:17,933 --> 00:53:21,493
Speaker 19: back and make change going forward. And that's a big

1162
00:53:21,573 --> 00:53:23,173
Speaker 19: thing I think that a lot of people talk about

1163
00:53:23,453 --> 00:53:27,493
Speaker 19: when they're using is like it's not just taking mushrooms

1164
00:53:27,533 --> 00:53:30,053
Speaker 19: you've got to take you know, it's it's doing that

1165
00:53:30,173 --> 00:53:32,173
Speaker 19: and then it's actually working through well, what is this

1166
00:53:32,293 --> 00:53:34,133
Speaker 19: teaching me? What changes do I need to make to

1167
00:53:34,253 --> 00:53:36,733
Speaker 19: actually improve the things I want to improve?

1168
00:53:36,973 --> 00:53:39,013
Speaker 3: Samuel, it's really great to chat with you. This is

1169
00:53:39,053 --> 00:53:41,293
Speaker 3: a really interesting discussion. You're right to hold there. We're

1170
00:53:41,293 --> 00:53:42,773
Speaker 3: just going to play some messages and we'll come back

1171
00:53:42,773 --> 00:53:43,773
Speaker 3: with a few more questions for you.

1172
00:53:44,773 --> 00:53:45,973
Speaker 14: Yeah, no, is it all brilliant.

1173
00:53:45,973 --> 00:53:48,853
Speaker 3: We are speaking to Samuel Lasham. He is a researcher

1174
00:53:48,893 --> 00:53:53,333
Speaker 3: at Auckland University looking into the widespread use of magic

1175
00:53:53,453 --> 00:53:56,093
Speaker 3: mushrooms with in New Zealand and some quarters so more

1176
00:53:56,253 --> 00:53:58,453
Speaker 3: very shortly. It is twenty four past two.

1177
00:54:03,533 --> 00:54:06,853
Speaker 1: Matt Heath and Tyler Adams afternoons call oh eight hundred

1178
00:54:06,853 --> 00:54:08,333
Speaker 1: and eighty ten eighty on used time.

1179
00:54:09,293 --> 00:54:11,613
Speaker 3: It is twenty seven a past too, so we're going

1180
00:54:11,653 --> 00:54:15,253
Speaker 3: to get to people's experiences very shortly. But in the

1181
00:54:15,293 --> 00:54:20,213
Speaker 3: meantime we are having a discussion with Auckland University researchers

1182
00:54:20,293 --> 00:54:23,813
Speaker 3: Samuel Lasham, who has been studying the use of magic

1183
00:54:23,893 --> 00:54:28,093
Speaker 3: mushrooms and psilocybin around you New Zealand in certain pockets. Sam,

1184
00:54:28,173 --> 00:54:29,493
Speaker 3: thanks very much again for your time.

1185
00:54:30,413 --> 00:54:32,973
Speaker 2: No worries now, Sam, You're not, as you were saying before,

1186
00:54:33,133 --> 00:54:36,173
Speaker 2: so focused on the clinical side of it. But I

1187
00:54:36,333 --> 00:54:39,013
Speaker 2: was thinking about this is evidence hard to get because

1188
00:54:39,093 --> 00:54:41,893
Speaker 2: you couldn't really run a placebo, could you, Because if

1189
00:54:41,933 --> 00:54:44,013
Speaker 2: you give someone the sugar pool, they won't have a trip,

1190
00:54:44,413 --> 00:54:47,493
Speaker 2: so they'll know that they are not in the actual trial,

1191
00:54:47,533 --> 00:54:48,373
Speaker 2: if you see what I'm saying.

1192
00:54:49,613 --> 00:54:52,653
Speaker 19: Yeah, that's it's almost like probably one of the biggest

1193
00:54:52,733 --> 00:54:56,453
Speaker 19: issues I think with psilocybin, well, just with psychedelic clinical

1194
00:54:56,493 --> 00:55:00,453
Speaker 19: trials in general, is how do you blind people? And

1195
00:55:00,573 --> 00:55:01,773
Speaker 19: a lot of people have been like, oh, well, what

1196
00:55:01,853 --> 00:55:04,293
Speaker 19: have you gave them a different psychedelic But then usually

1197
00:55:04,853 --> 00:55:08,173
Speaker 19: most of the ones that people consume have similar you know,

1198
00:55:08,493 --> 00:55:10,652
Speaker 19: work in similar ways, so that probably wouldn't work.

1199
00:55:10,773 --> 00:55:12,573
Speaker 14: So it does make it very difficult.

1200
00:55:12,653 --> 00:55:16,413
Speaker 2: Yeah, but the body of evidence seems quite compelling. I

1201
00:55:16,493 --> 00:55:18,933
Speaker 2: was I think was the John Hopkins stuff I was reading,

1202
00:55:19,213 --> 00:55:21,573
Speaker 2: and you might correct me if I'm wrong here, but

1203
00:55:22,133 --> 00:55:24,253
Speaker 2: a lot of therapy they were using for people that

1204
00:55:24,333 --> 00:55:27,413
Speaker 2: were terminal patients, and it was interesting what they were saying,

1205
00:55:27,493 --> 00:55:29,573
Speaker 2: which was not only did it help them dealing with

1206
00:55:29,693 --> 00:55:31,533
Speaker 2: the depression and the struggle they were having there, but

1207
00:55:31,613 --> 00:55:33,772
Speaker 2: it also they listed it as one of the most

1208
00:55:33,813 --> 00:55:38,893
Speaker 2: important events in their lives experiencing this how differently they

1209
00:55:39,053 --> 00:55:42,533
Speaker 2: saw the world. So whilst it is having trouble in

1210
00:55:42,693 --> 00:55:46,413
Speaker 2: terms of, you know, doing double blind testing, there seems

1211
00:55:46,453 --> 00:55:49,732
Speaker 2: to be quite a body of research that it has

1212
00:55:49,813 --> 00:55:53,133
Speaker 2: such a strong success rate that it's hard to definitely

1213
00:55:53,213 --> 00:55:57,373
Speaker 2: hard to ignore if someone was suffering a major depressive

1214
00:55:57,493 --> 00:56:04,053
Speaker 2: disorder or a treatment resistant depression, is it possible for

1215
00:56:04,133 --> 00:56:05,973
Speaker 2: them to reach out in New Zealand? How hard is

1216
00:56:05,973 --> 00:56:07,973
Speaker 2: it for people to reach out for a legal option

1217
00:56:08,453 --> 00:56:09,573
Speaker 2: Zealand to get treatment?

1218
00:56:11,933 --> 00:56:15,213
Speaker 19: Very difficult And I quite regularly talk about this with

1219
00:56:15,373 --> 00:56:19,533
Speaker 19: people that come in through my study actually because you know,

1220
00:56:19,573 --> 00:56:21,813
Speaker 19: obviously we've got people trying to work out how to

1221
00:56:21,893 --> 00:56:24,413
Speaker 19: go through this, and I think ideally people would love

1222
00:56:24,493 --> 00:56:28,093
Speaker 19: to have a psychiatrist, a therapist and you know, do it,

1223
00:56:28,533 --> 00:56:33,933
Speaker 19: do it the way that's been tested. Essentially, Currently, I

1224
00:56:34,013 --> 00:56:36,613
Speaker 19: think we've only got two people in the country who

1225
00:56:36,693 --> 00:56:41,533
Speaker 19: are approved to do psilocybin assisted therapy, so that has

1226
00:56:41,653 --> 00:56:45,613
Speaker 19: now been approved, but only two people. Only one of those,

1227
00:56:45,653 --> 00:56:48,213
Speaker 19: as far as I'm aware, works with treatment resistant depression

1228
00:56:49,253 --> 00:56:55,093
Speaker 19: and New Zealand I think that's in excess of ten

1229
00:56:55,173 --> 00:56:58,053
Speaker 19: thousand dollars to go through that wow type of therapy,

1230
00:56:58,133 --> 00:57:01,533
Speaker 19: and overseas, I think Australia it's around thirty thousand. You know,

1231
00:57:01,613 --> 00:57:06,213
Speaker 19: it's similar prices across the board around the world. So

1232
00:57:07,333 --> 00:57:10,453
Speaker 19: that's largely part of private healthcare. It's largely because you know,

1233
00:57:10,893 --> 00:57:13,573
Speaker 19: we're talking a lot of hours here. There's all these

1234
00:57:13,613 --> 00:57:16,773
Speaker 19: hours of therapy before you go in. There's you know,

1235
00:57:16,893 --> 00:57:19,533
Speaker 19: close to a day sat there with a psychiatrist just

1236
00:57:19,613 --> 00:57:22,133
Speaker 19: going through the experience, and all the hours of.

1237
00:57:24,213 --> 00:57:25,413
Speaker 14: Therapy afterwards as well.

1238
00:57:26,453 --> 00:57:28,813
Speaker 19: And then we've got the fact that the people doing

1239
00:57:28,853 --> 00:57:30,973
Speaker 19: those hours is a psychiatrist as well, so it's not

1240
00:57:31,053 --> 00:57:32,453
Speaker 19: exactly somebody who's hourly.

1241
00:57:32,973 --> 00:57:35,893
Speaker 14: Hourly raters is very low.

1242
00:57:37,573 --> 00:57:40,813
Speaker 19: So all of that sort of compounds, and then weirdly, weirdly,

1243
00:57:40,933 --> 00:57:45,373
Speaker 19: legal drugs are far more expensive than illegal ones, so

1244
00:57:45,533 --> 00:57:47,653
Speaker 19: all of that sort of compounds to create quite an

1245
00:57:47,693 --> 00:57:50,573
Speaker 19: expensive thing, and a large portion of the people that

1246
00:57:50,853 --> 00:57:54,173
Speaker 19: really need access to this just can't access it. I mean,

1247
00:57:54,253 --> 00:57:58,213
Speaker 19: through my study, I think less than what, Yeah, only

1248
00:57:58,253 --> 00:58:00,773
Speaker 19: one person in my study ever, I think, had actually

1249
00:58:01,493 --> 00:58:06,733
Speaker 19: had the opportunity to consume that consume psilocybin with a therapist.

1250
00:58:08,053 --> 00:58:09,653
Speaker 14: So it's definitely hard to reach.

1251
00:58:10,293 --> 00:58:12,693
Speaker 2: Now, I'm just gonna put my conspiracy theory head on

1252
00:58:12,813 --> 00:58:16,213
Speaker 2: here for a second, right, You know, I don't necessarily

1253
00:58:16,213 --> 00:58:19,413
Speaker 2: want to take it down this path, but surely big

1254
00:58:19,533 --> 00:58:24,173
Speaker 2: Farmer hate this because it's one or two treatments rather

1255
00:58:24,253 --> 00:58:27,013
Speaker 2: than years and years of daily treatments.

1256
00:58:29,133 --> 00:58:34,333
Speaker 19: Well, yeah, I mean, you can talk about conspiracy theories,

1257
00:58:34,613 --> 00:58:36,573
Speaker 19: but it's not helpful.

1258
00:58:39,093 --> 00:58:39,253
Speaker 15: You know.

1259
00:58:40,173 --> 00:58:42,613
Speaker 19: Conspiracy theories are often embellishment of what goes on in

1260
00:58:42,653 --> 00:58:48,853
Speaker 19: the world rather than complete, complete, yeah, complete fakeness.

1261
00:58:48,893 --> 00:58:49,453
Speaker 14: I guess.

1262
00:58:51,733 --> 00:58:55,053
Speaker 19: I I don't know of many big, of many of

1263
00:58:55,133 --> 00:58:58,533
Speaker 19: the sort of classical pharmaceutical companies that are getting involved

1264
00:58:58,573 --> 00:59:01,653
Speaker 19: in this, And maybe maybe that is the case, maybe

1265
00:59:01,733 --> 00:59:02,413
Speaker 19: that there's.

1266
00:59:02,333 --> 00:59:05,613
Speaker 2: Not not the same amount of lobbying going on, the same.

1267
00:59:05,453 --> 00:59:07,573
Speaker 14: Amount of Yeah, and you're seeing, you know, you just

1268
00:59:07,853 --> 00:59:09,053
Speaker 14: starting to see a lot of.

1269
00:59:10,853 --> 00:59:13,093
Speaker 19: A lot of most of the companies in the psychedelic

1270
00:59:13,173 --> 00:59:16,133
Speaker 19: space now are very much new companies, and we are

1271
00:59:16,253 --> 00:59:18,853
Speaker 19: starting to see sort of people. I think there's a

1272
00:59:18,933 --> 00:59:21,493
Speaker 19: recognition that there's probably not that much money to be

1273
00:59:21,573 --> 00:59:27,533
Speaker 19: made from producing the drug itself because it's so widely available.

1274
00:59:27,053 --> 00:59:28,413
Speaker 14: And I don't think you can pattern it.

1275
00:59:28,453 --> 00:59:30,693
Speaker 19: But there's definitely a movement to sort of pattern aspects

1276
00:59:30,733 --> 00:59:35,053
Speaker 19: of the therapy and stuff like this. But yeah, I

1277
00:59:36,413 --> 00:59:39,813
Speaker 19: can't really I don't know whether Big Farmer would be

1278
00:59:39,853 --> 00:59:44,133
Speaker 19: against it or not. But it means they can make money,

1279
00:59:44,493 --> 00:59:49,373
Speaker 19: you know, I don't think, yeah, exactly exactly.

1280
00:59:50,013 --> 00:59:52,773
Speaker 2: And so just just because you know, we're talking about

1281
00:59:52,893 --> 00:59:55,773
Speaker 2: something that people can just find if they know what

1282
00:59:55,893 --> 00:59:58,093
Speaker 2: to look for. You know what, what what what are

1283
00:59:58,133 --> 01:00:00,013
Speaker 2: the risks? What are the risks you're seeing?

1284
01:00:01,613 --> 01:00:04,093
Speaker 19: Yeah, Well, like you say, if you know what to

1285
01:00:04,173 --> 01:00:07,013
Speaker 19: look for, I think that's a big one. We have

1286
01:00:07,333 --> 01:00:10,213
Speaker 19: species in New Zealand that are most commonly.

1287
01:00:11,373 --> 01:00:11,733
Speaker 14: Forage.

1288
01:00:11,773 --> 01:00:16,853
Speaker 19: Species is called Psilosaby suburiginosa. Oh subs it's probably a

1289
01:00:16,893 --> 01:00:21,613
Speaker 19: better way to say that. And there's a species that

1290
01:00:21,653 --> 01:00:24,093
Speaker 19: looks very very similar that grows in the exact same

1291
01:00:24,213 --> 01:00:26,973
Speaker 19: environments often, you know, you could see them growing literally

1292
01:00:27,093 --> 01:00:32,493
Speaker 19: side by side, and that species member of gallery Gallerina group.

1293
01:00:33,453 --> 01:00:36,013
Speaker 19: They contain some of the same toxins as the deaf

1294
01:00:36,093 --> 01:00:40,013
Speaker 19: cap mushroom, which everyone loves to talk about, particularly since

1295
01:00:40,133 --> 01:00:43,733
Speaker 19: that infamous murderer over in Australia. So there is a

1296
01:00:43,853 --> 01:00:46,613
Speaker 19: real risk there if you don't know what you're collecting,

1297
01:00:46,733 --> 01:00:49,133
Speaker 19: of grabbing the wrong thing and eating the wrong thing.

1298
01:00:51,173 --> 01:00:53,453
Speaker 19: And that's a very mushroom specific risk. We've then got

1299
01:00:53,493 --> 01:00:55,493
Speaker 19: the fact that there's absolutely not really there's not really

1300
01:00:55,573 --> 01:00:59,853
Speaker 19: many ways that people have access to to really actually

1301
01:01:00,493 --> 01:01:05,613
Speaker 19: know the strength of the mushrooms they're consuming. So that

1302
01:01:05,813 --> 01:01:08,373
Speaker 19: creates a lot of issues. You know, you could a

1303
01:01:08,373 --> 01:01:09,613
Speaker 19: lot of issues, but you know, that can be very

1304
01:01:09,653 --> 01:01:14,053
Speaker 19: difficult for people. You generally people I advise them to

1305
01:01:14,093 --> 01:01:15,853
Speaker 19: take less to begin with, because you're never going to

1306
01:01:15,933 --> 01:01:18,853
Speaker 19: know how strong things are and you can always take more.

1307
01:01:20,933 --> 01:01:24,213
Speaker 19: And then, you know, that's the very mushroom specific stuff.

1308
01:01:24,253 --> 01:01:27,173
Speaker 19: But then we've got the broader psychedelic stuff of you know,

1309
01:01:28,133 --> 01:01:30,253
Speaker 19: make you've got to make sure you're in the right

1310
01:01:30,373 --> 01:01:33,093
Speaker 19: place and the right headspace and things to consume these

1311
01:01:33,213 --> 01:01:38,093
Speaker 19: and have a good understanding of that because as as

1312
01:01:38,173 --> 01:01:40,493
Speaker 19: you mentioned before from one of the texts, they can

1313
01:01:40,733 --> 01:01:43,853
Speaker 19: they can send you to hell. You know, you can

1314
01:01:43,973 --> 01:01:48,893
Speaker 19: have a bad experience or what research is called the

1315
01:01:48,973 --> 01:01:51,173
Speaker 19: challenging experience. A lot of people do come out of

1316
01:01:51,213 --> 01:01:53,293
Speaker 19: those saying that I need to be needed to be challenged,

1317
01:01:53,293 --> 01:01:57,333
Speaker 19: and that ended up being good for me. But I

1318
01:01:57,413 --> 01:01:59,853
Speaker 19: think when those are unexpected, it is quite difficult to

1319
01:01:59,893 --> 01:02:00,373
Speaker 19: get through that.

1320
01:02:00,653 --> 01:02:03,333
Speaker 3: Yeah, Samuel, it's been great to chat with you. Thank

1321
01:02:03,373 --> 01:02:06,133
Speaker 3: you very much for your time and hopefully we'll catch

1322
01:02:06,253 --> 01:02:07,733
Speaker 3: up a little bit down the track.

1323
01:02:08,733 --> 01:02:10,293
Speaker 14: No worries at all, Thanks so much for having me.

1324
01:02:10,453 --> 01:02:13,773
Speaker 3: That is Auckland University School of Pharmacy researcher Samuel Lasham

1325
01:02:13,893 --> 01:02:17,373
Speaker 3: So taking your calls on eight hundred and eighty ten eighty.

1326
01:02:17,693 --> 01:02:21,813
Speaker 3: If you have tried magic mushrooms or psilocybin, what were

1327
01:02:21,853 --> 01:02:23,773
Speaker 3: the contexts around that, How did it go for you?

1328
01:02:23,893 --> 01:02:26,013
Speaker 3: And does it need to be brought out of the

1329
01:02:26,093 --> 01:02:28,533
Speaker 3: shadow so to speak? If this research is so promising,

1330
01:02:29,213 --> 01:02:30,773
Speaker 3: does there need to be a bit more light shone

1331
01:02:30,813 --> 01:02:32,333
Speaker 3: on it? Oh, one hundred eighty ten eighty is that

1332
01:02:32,413 --> 01:02:33,933
Speaker 3: number to call? Nine two nine two texts?

1333
01:02:34,053 --> 01:02:36,173
Speaker 2: Or is a trip on a currently class A drug

1334
01:02:36,333 --> 01:02:38,333
Speaker 2: just a step too far? When it comes to yours

1335
01:02:38,453 --> 01:02:40,933
Speaker 2: Other New Zealander's mental health love to hear your thoughts.

1336
01:02:40,733 --> 01:02:46,053
Speaker 20: Headlines coming up, News Talk said b headlines with your Ride,

1337
01:02:46,373 --> 01:02:49,813
Speaker 20: new Zealand's number one taxi app, Download your Ride today.

1338
01:02:50,453 --> 01:02:53,533
Speaker 10: Data on New Zealand's fuel stocks will now be published

1339
01:02:53,653 --> 01:02:56,733
Speaker 10: twice a week as the Iran war continues to impact

1340
01:02:56,773 --> 01:03:00,733
Speaker 10: global supply. Fuel companies will give the Crown daily updates

1341
01:03:01,013 --> 01:03:05,293
Speaker 10: and ministers are working on contingency plans. Stats n ZED

1342
01:03:05,373 --> 01:03:08,453
Speaker 10: data shows New Zealand's economy wasn't doing as well as

1343
01:03:08,493 --> 01:03:12,013
Speaker 10: we thought, with GDP rising just zero point two percent

1344
01:03:12,293 --> 01:03:16,373
Speaker 10: in the December quarter. Police are asking anyone with information

1345
01:03:16,493 --> 01:03:20,133
Speaker 10: to come forward after activists labeled the Prime Minister Electoral

1346
01:03:20,213 --> 01:03:25,893
Speaker 10: Office Trump War Minerals HQ alongside American symbols. It's been

1347
01:03:25,973 --> 01:03:29,813
Speaker 10: revealed the US proposed a deal on critical minerals in December,

1348
01:03:30,213 --> 01:03:34,213
Speaker 10: with funding for projects and helping mapping New Zealand minerals.

1349
01:03:35,293 --> 01:03:39,453
Speaker 10: A blaze is sending thick black smoke billowing across central Auckland.

1350
01:03:39,933 --> 01:03:43,693
Speaker 10: Flames were spotted just before two on Ponsonby's Williamson Avenue

1351
01:03:43,973 --> 01:03:47,613
Speaker 10: near the z Energy Petrol Station. A plan to let

1352
01:03:47,653 --> 01:03:51,973
Speaker 10: commercial fishes land and sell nineteen reef fish species caught

1353
01:03:52,093 --> 01:03:57,613
Speaker 10: as bycatch has been abandoned plastics sector warns of seventy

1354
01:03:57,693 --> 01:04:01,813
Speaker 10: five percent material price surge as Iram conflict bytes supply.

1355
01:04:02,213 --> 01:04:04,853
Speaker 10: You can see more at Enzend Herald Premium. Back to

1356
01:04:04,933 --> 01:04:06,173
Speaker 10: Matt Heath and Tyler Adams.

1357
01:04:06,213 --> 01:04:08,773
Speaker 3: Thank you very much, Raylan. It is twenty one three

1358
01:04:08,893 --> 01:04:12,253
Speaker 3: so promising early research into magic mushroom assisted therapy for

1359
01:04:12,373 --> 01:04:16,653
Speaker 3: things like mental health issues and addiction. Do you think psilocybin,

1360
01:04:16,733 --> 01:04:19,493
Speaker 3: which is the ingredient, should be easy to access one

1361
01:04:19,573 --> 01:04:21,853
Speaker 3: hundred and eighty ten eighties and number to call OMG.

1362
01:04:22,053 --> 01:04:25,093
Speaker 2: You guys be careful with this conversation. There will be

1363
01:04:25,173 --> 01:04:29,053
Speaker 2: consequences of people not knowing that the dangers, says this texter.

1364
01:04:29,693 --> 01:04:32,413
Speaker 2: But I believe people are capable of hearing different things

1365
01:04:32,453 --> 01:04:36,653
Speaker 2: and making their own decisions. I refuse to treat my

1366
01:04:36,813 --> 01:04:38,253
Speaker 2: fellow New Zealanders like children.

1367
01:04:38,453 --> 01:04:40,453
Speaker 3: It's more of a danger keeping the stuff in the shadows.

1368
01:04:40,493 --> 01:04:42,253
Speaker 3: That's the whole point that we want to talk about

1369
01:04:42,253 --> 01:04:44,733
Speaker 3: it so people are informed. But thank you very much

1370
01:04:44,733 --> 01:04:49,893
Speaker 3: for your text. Mark Man, can you hear your story?

1371
01:04:50,933 --> 01:04:54,933
Speaker 9: Yeah? So, I think it's a really interesting discussion, and

1372
01:04:55,013 --> 01:04:57,933
Speaker 9: I'm actually quite glad there's a lot of research being

1373
01:04:58,093 --> 01:05:01,773
Speaker 9: done around it. I think once you get past the

1374
01:05:01,893 --> 01:05:05,573
Speaker 9: sort of stigma of being a class air drug, I

1375
01:05:05,613 --> 01:05:10,973
Speaker 9: think there really is some you know, beneficial, beneficial properties

1376
01:05:11,013 --> 01:05:14,453
Speaker 9: to her in terms of sort of providing that as

1377
01:05:14,493 --> 01:05:21,613
Speaker 9: a medical solution. I've got a friend she suffered from severe,

1378
01:05:21,933 --> 01:05:28,733
Speaker 9: severe depression for pretty much her whole life, and she

1379
01:05:28,853 --> 01:05:33,933
Speaker 9: tried a whole range of different types of antidepressants, and

1380
01:05:34,173 --> 01:05:37,733
Speaker 9: she she really suffered a lot from adverse effects and

1381
01:05:37,813 --> 01:05:42,653
Speaker 9: symptoms from those medications. And someone told her if she

1382
01:05:42,893 --> 01:05:48,373
Speaker 9: tried manting mushrooms, it would actually help to to sort

1383
01:05:48,373 --> 01:05:55,373
Speaker 9: of I guess being a beneficiar like being more beneficial

1384
01:05:55,453 --> 01:06:00,173
Speaker 9: in terms of her mental stability, right. And she she's

1385
01:06:00,213 --> 01:06:04,413
Speaker 9: a really educated woman. She's pretty smart, and she did

1386
01:06:04,653 --> 01:06:07,573
Speaker 9: a lot of research around it and really did her homework.

1387
01:06:08,613 --> 01:06:12,653
Speaker 9: But what she does is she actually microdoses herself on

1388
01:06:12,773 --> 01:06:15,973
Speaker 9: her on her daily or every second day, or you know,

1389
01:06:16,173 --> 01:06:20,253
Speaker 9: X amount of times a week. And the change I've

1390
01:06:20,333 --> 01:06:25,213
Speaker 9: seen in her is just unbelievable. And I think, like

1391
01:06:26,413 --> 01:06:28,493
Speaker 9: I think of the recess or it goes the right way,

1392
01:06:29,973 --> 01:06:32,493
Speaker 9: you know, this could really have quite a big change

1393
01:06:33,133 --> 01:06:33,893
Speaker 9: to a lot of people.

1394
01:06:34,693 --> 01:06:36,773
Speaker 2: And so she, you know, I don't want to give

1395
01:06:36,813 --> 01:06:40,613
Speaker 2: too many details, but it is a class A drug.

1396
01:06:41,253 --> 01:06:45,333
Speaker 2: And so when she's microdocing, how is she getting hold

1397
01:06:45,413 --> 01:06:47,693
Speaker 2: of of the psilocybin the magic mushroom?

1398
01:06:48,533 --> 01:06:52,893
Speaker 9: Yeah, so she sources herself. She she just goes up

1399
01:06:52,933 --> 01:06:56,293
Speaker 9: into the hills, into the forest, and like I said,

1400
01:06:56,333 --> 01:06:57,973
Speaker 9: she's done a lot of research around her and she

1401
01:06:58,133 --> 01:07:02,373
Speaker 9: knows what she's looking for and around the diseg and

1402
01:07:02,493 --> 01:07:07,173
Speaker 9: everything else as well. She's she's heavily heavily researched because

1403
01:07:07,173 --> 01:07:09,853
Speaker 9: she has she has she was quite skeptical at the

1404
01:07:09,933 --> 01:07:13,573
Speaker 9: time in doing so. So she's really sort of looked

1405
01:07:13,613 --> 01:07:17,093
Speaker 9: at it in a professional sort of manner or an

1406
01:07:17,253 --> 01:07:21,173
Speaker 9: educated sort of manner, and she's managed to fund the balance,

1407
01:07:21,253 --> 01:07:24,653
Speaker 9: and she knows exactly what she's looking for. But again

1408
01:07:24,813 --> 01:07:28,773
Speaker 9: it's for personal supply. You know, she's not getting copious amounts.

1409
01:07:28,813 --> 01:07:31,613
Speaker 9: She's only getting in enough to sort of sort of

1410
01:07:31,893 --> 01:07:36,453
Speaker 9: service her requirements and what she needs. But you know,

1411
01:07:36,773 --> 01:07:40,333
Speaker 9: like I'm not a you know, it probably won't work

1412
01:07:40,373 --> 01:07:43,733
Speaker 9: for everybody, you know, and I know it's probably more

1413
01:07:43,813 --> 01:07:47,053
Speaker 9: cater to around her, Like for myself. You know, I'm

1414
01:07:47,093 --> 01:07:50,613
Speaker 9: not really a I don't enjoy drugs or I don't

1415
01:07:50,653 --> 01:07:53,493
Speaker 9: do drugs because I don't enjoy that sort of loss

1416
01:07:53,533 --> 01:07:56,813
Speaker 9: of self control or whatever it is. But for her

1417
01:07:57,373 --> 01:08:00,773
Speaker 9: it seems to work. And I think if it does

1418
01:08:00,893 --> 01:08:05,693
Speaker 9: work for you, and specifically it helps you function normally

1419
01:08:05,773 --> 01:08:07,773
Speaker 9: as a person on a day to day basis, why

1420
01:08:07,853 --> 01:08:08,973
Speaker 9: not do.

1421
01:08:09,013 --> 01:08:12,173
Speaker 2: You think what's happening with her? Because if she's microdosing,

1422
01:08:12,253 --> 01:08:16,493
Speaker 2: so she's not having massive trips, she's probably not hallucinating.

1423
01:08:18,333 --> 01:08:20,093
Speaker 3: Is that just really resetting?

1424
01:08:21,133 --> 01:08:23,612
Speaker 2: I think the term is the default mode network where

1425
01:08:23,613 --> 01:08:27,372
Speaker 2: you're just your brain. Isn't a depressive loop from your

1426
01:08:27,412 --> 01:08:29,812
Speaker 2: observation from the outside. Is it just sort of taking

1427
01:08:29,853 --> 01:08:34,093
Speaker 2: her out of the patterns that were making her not

1428
01:08:34,253 --> 01:08:34,812
Speaker 2: enjoy life?

1429
01:08:35,452 --> 01:08:38,452
Speaker 9: Yeah, absolutely, like she's she's a completely changed person of

1430
01:08:38,692 --> 01:08:41,293
Speaker 9: you know, she doesn't. I mean, she has the moment,

1431
01:08:41,372 --> 01:08:44,572
Speaker 9: but again it's not it's not a point where she's

1432
01:08:44,812 --> 01:08:48,093
Speaker 9: severe and you know, she's not in that sort of

1433
01:08:48,133 --> 01:08:50,532
Speaker 9: deep dark place that she has been for most of

1434
01:08:50,572 --> 01:08:53,892
Speaker 9: her life. And again she doesn't get the adverse sort

1435
01:08:53,893 --> 01:08:58,612
Speaker 9: of symptoms and effect that you do with traditional anti antidepressants.

1436
01:08:59,772 --> 01:09:01,492
Speaker 3: Mark, thank you very much for giving us a call.

1437
01:09:01,572 --> 01:09:03,772
Speaker 3: Really interesting taking your calls as well. Oh eight one

1438
01:09:03,812 --> 01:09:05,973
Speaker 3: hundred and eighty ten eighty are like Mark, do you

1439
01:09:06,053 --> 01:09:09,772
Speaker 3: have someone a friend who has microdos with psilocybin and

1440
01:09:09,853 --> 01:09:12,492
Speaker 3: it's worked, or do you think this is a dangerous

1441
01:09:12,492 --> 01:09:14,572
Speaker 3: path to go down if it has opened up more? Oh,

1442
01:09:14,612 --> 01:09:16,213
Speaker 3: eight hundred and eighty ten eighty is at number It

1443
01:09:16,293 --> 01:09:17,133
Speaker 3: is sixteen to three.

1444
01:09:18,293 --> 01:09:21,452
Speaker 1: The Fresh Take on Talkback Matt Heath and Tyler Adams

1445
01:09:21,532 --> 01:09:25,692
Speaker 1: afternoons with Skoda place SCD codes every day at sCOD

1446
01:09:25,812 --> 01:09:28,892
Speaker 1: dot co dot nzad have your say on eight hundred

1447
01:09:28,973 --> 01:09:30,532
Speaker 1: eighty ten eighty News Talks The.

1448
01:09:30,652 --> 01:09:31,412
Speaker 3: B thirteen three.

1449
01:09:31,492 --> 01:09:33,772
Speaker 2: It's funny when you look at what class A drugs

1450
01:09:33,772 --> 01:09:35,732
Speaker 2: are in New Zealand. You've got your heroin, you've got

1451
01:09:35,772 --> 01:09:41,293
Speaker 2: your cocaine, you've got your myth and phetamine, and you

1452
01:09:41,372 --> 01:09:42,333
Speaker 2: get your psilocybin on.

1453
01:09:42,372 --> 01:09:44,852
Speaker 3: This So ecstasy isn't class as that B does?

1454
01:09:44,973 --> 01:09:46,972
Speaker 2: I just say I wasn't listening all of them. Yep,

1455
01:09:47,133 --> 01:09:51,973
Speaker 2: mbma's on there as well, miss killer and DMT. But

1456
01:09:52,652 --> 01:09:54,932
Speaker 2: it's interesting because because they're so different, right, So myth

1457
01:09:55,053 --> 01:09:58,293
Speaker 2: n fhetamine as opposed to psilocybin, the active and compound

1458
01:09:58,612 --> 01:10:03,572
Speaker 2: and magic mushrooms very very different, very very different societal harms.

1459
01:10:03,612 --> 01:10:05,972
Speaker 2: I would say justin welcome to the show.

1460
01:10:06,933 --> 01:10:07,692
Speaker 21: Thank you gentlemen.

1461
01:10:08,532 --> 01:10:09,653
Speaker 3: Keen on your experiences.

1462
01:10:11,053 --> 01:10:15,052
Speaker 21: Yeah, so I've been, fortunately, I think, enough to experience

1463
01:10:15,213 --> 01:10:21,372
Speaker 21: most of the plant medicines, ayahuasca, magic mushrooms, payote and

1464
01:10:21,692 --> 01:10:24,772
Speaker 21: all have been in sort of a traditional Meso American

1465
01:10:25,652 --> 01:10:31,173
Speaker 21: ceremonial space, so very controlled setting, but just a very

1466
01:10:31,253 --> 01:10:34,253
Speaker 21: profound thing and very difficult to explain I think to

1467
01:10:34,372 --> 01:10:38,612
Speaker 21: somebody who has not experienced it themselves. But what I

1468
01:10:38,692 --> 01:10:40,372
Speaker 21: wanted to share with you guys is I think that

1469
01:10:40,532 --> 01:10:43,812
Speaker 21: everybody who has that experience will come away with receiving

1470
01:10:43,973 --> 01:10:47,412
Speaker 21: some form of a message. Which that's what I was

1471
01:10:47,412 --> 01:10:50,932
Speaker 21: alluding to you guys off air, is that my nephews

1472
01:10:50,973 --> 01:10:53,772
Speaker 21: are now twenty one years old. They were born at

1473
01:10:53,893 --> 01:10:58,692
Speaker 21: twenty eight weeks very premature, very underweight, and naturally started

1474
01:10:58,812 --> 01:11:02,213
Speaker 21: laugh with, you know, a rather traumatic experience. So my

1475
01:11:02,372 --> 01:11:05,572
Speaker 21: sister decided that when they turned twenty one, she was

1476
01:11:05,612 --> 01:11:08,253
Speaker 21: going to let them have their first magic mushroom experience.

1477
01:11:08,492 --> 01:11:11,692
Speaker 21: And this happened recently, and I've had a chat to

1478
01:11:11,772 --> 01:11:15,492
Speaker 21: them because I've had my own experiences, and very profound

1479
01:11:15,532 --> 01:11:17,932
Speaker 21: things were said by these young gentlemen and have come

1480
01:11:17,973 --> 01:11:20,932
Speaker 21: away saying that they think that every twenty one year

1481
01:11:20,933 --> 01:11:24,133
Speaker 21: old should experience it because of what they've gained and

1482
01:11:24,492 --> 01:11:28,133
Speaker 21: what messages they were given during their experiences, was.

1483
01:11:28,173 --> 01:11:32,293
Speaker 2: Anything, you know, they're as dangers as people are texting

1484
01:11:32,612 --> 01:11:37,652
Speaker 2: and of you know, taking hallucinogens, and you know there

1485
01:11:37,692 --> 01:11:41,133
Speaker 2: are people that have mindsets that are not helped by

1486
01:11:41,213 --> 01:11:44,253
Speaker 2: this and can be set off in spirals, as well

1487
01:11:44,293 --> 01:11:47,253
Speaker 2: as the fact that you may see things that aren't

1488
01:11:47,253 --> 01:11:49,812
Speaker 2: there and that can lead to accidents. So are you

1489
01:11:49,933 --> 01:11:52,892
Speaker 2: worried at all about twin nephews, twenty one year olds

1490
01:11:53,412 --> 01:11:56,932
Speaker 2: taking these hallucinogens justin in these.

1491
01:11:56,893 --> 01:12:01,213
Speaker 21: Sort of let's say magic mushroom experience the circles. People

1492
01:12:01,213 --> 01:12:04,132
Speaker 21: always talk about sets and setting and it's very important

1493
01:12:04,213 --> 01:12:08,052
Speaker 21: to do the inner preparation leading up to the journey,

1494
01:12:08,412 --> 01:12:11,532
Speaker 21: so eating properly, making sure that you do have a

1495
01:12:12,013 --> 01:12:14,652
Speaker 21: they would say a trip litter or somebody who's there

1496
01:12:15,812 --> 01:12:19,852
Speaker 21: and you know, not participating in the actual time medicine

1497
01:12:20,412 --> 01:12:22,213
Speaker 21: and being there as a guard. So as I said,

1498
01:12:22,253 --> 01:12:24,732
Speaker 21: you know, I've done it in ceremony where we have

1499
01:12:25,093 --> 01:12:28,733
Speaker 21: the shaman who is there to watch over the proceedings,

1500
01:12:28,853 --> 01:12:31,412
Speaker 21: and you know, in terms of dangers, I think, yes,

1501
01:12:31,572 --> 01:12:33,852
Speaker 21: dangers in terms of picking the wrong mushrooms if you

1502
01:12:33,933 --> 01:12:36,213
Speaker 21: had to go and pick for yourself, But if you

1503
01:12:36,333 --> 01:12:40,372
Speaker 21: are receiving the correct strain of mushrooms. You know the

1504
01:12:40,452 --> 01:12:42,732
Speaker 21: literature that I've read, I've also been one to research

1505
01:12:42,772 --> 01:12:46,213
Speaker 21: a lot into it, have found and read that people

1506
01:12:46,253 --> 01:12:48,812
Speaker 21: say that you cannot overdose on magic mushroom.

1507
01:12:50,173 --> 01:12:51,692
Speaker 3: It's pretty hard to you. I mean you talk about

1508
01:12:51,692 --> 01:12:54,372
Speaker 3: shaman's there, it's pretty hard for most people to determine

1509
01:12:54,412 --> 01:12:56,852
Speaker 3: who's legit and who's just a plastic charman trying to

1510
01:12:56,893 --> 01:12:59,053
Speaker 3: make a bit of money out of vulnerable people. If

1511
01:12:59,053 --> 01:13:01,013
Speaker 3: you hear what I'm saying, Jason, anyone can say that

1512
01:13:01,053 --> 01:13:03,452
Speaker 3: they are shaman and they've been to Amazon and they

1513
01:13:03,532 --> 01:13:06,173
Speaker 3: know all about the likes of magic mushrooms or Aahuascar,

1514
01:13:06,452 --> 01:13:07,812
Speaker 3: but there's so many frauds out there.

1515
01:13:08,772 --> 01:13:11,412
Speaker 21: Yes, I think you just have to find your tribe,

1516
01:13:11,452 --> 01:13:13,133
Speaker 21: if you could put it that way. I must say

1517
01:13:13,173 --> 01:13:16,173
Speaker 21: that these experiences had were back in South Africa, and

1518
01:13:16,333 --> 01:13:19,532
Speaker 21: it was a long process getting to know the couple

1519
01:13:19,612 --> 01:13:22,972
Speaker 21: that held these retreats and actually brought the shaman who

1520
01:13:23,013 --> 01:13:25,732
Speaker 21: they've had a long standing relationship with out from Brazil.

1521
01:13:26,652 --> 01:13:29,972
Speaker 21: You know once or twice a year. So I think

1522
01:13:30,093 --> 01:13:32,293
Speaker 21: very fortunate to be able to have experienced it in

1523
01:13:32,412 --> 01:13:34,293
Speaker 21: that way, But was definitely the right choice.

1524
01:13:34,692 --> 01:13:36,612
Speaker 2: Think of you cool justin it's funny you talk about

1525
01:13:36,652 --> 01:13:38,333
Speaker 2: young people, and people often think about this kind of

1526
01:13:38,333 --> 01:13:40,812
Speaker 2: stuff and young people. There's a fantastic book by a

1527
01:13:40,893 --> 01:13:44,213
Speaker 2: guy called Michael Poland that I thoroughly suggest. It's called

1528
01:13:44,253 --> 01:13:46,093
Speaker 2: How to Change Your Mind. Chronicles of the History of

1529
01:13:46,133 --> 01:13:49,333
Speaker 2: Psychedelic Drugs. But his argument so he went through, He's

1530
01:13:49,333 --> 01:13:52,173
Speaker 2: a very famous US writer, and he went through and

1531
01:13:52,213 --> 01:13:55,612
Speaker 2: tried a bunch of psychedelics and his claim was so

1532
01:13:55,893 --> 01:14:00,092
Speaker 2: much better in your seventies than they are in your twenties.

1533
01:14:00,253 --> 01:14:01,253
Speaker 3: Good to know for a lot of people.

1534
01:14:01,293 --> 01:14:04,133
Speaker 2: Maybe, Yeah, it's a really interesting book. It got turned

1535
01:14:04,173 --> 01:14:08,213
Speaker 2: into a television show. Actually, Michael Poland, you'll probably know,

1536
01:14:08,492 --> 01:14:13,213
Speaker 2: he's a very famous American journalist. He used to specialize

1537
01:14:13,213 --> 01:14:14,932
Speaker 2: in food, but he's written a number of great books.

1538
01:14:14,973 --> 01:14:17,333
Speaker 3: Yea'll hunt that down right back very shortly. It is

1539
01:14:17,572 --> 01:14:19,612
Speaker 3: eight minutes to three, Taking your calls O. Eight hundred

1540
01:14:19,612 --> 01:14:22,812
Speaker 3: and eighty ten eighty, the issues that affect you.

1541
01:14:23,173 --> 01:14:25,452
Speaker 1: And a bit of fun along the way. Matt Heathen

1542
01:14:25,572 --> 01:14:30,492
Speaker 1: Taylor Adams Afternoons News talks'd be it is five to three.

1543
01:14:31,133 --> 01:14:33,772
Speaker 1: Are you ready to crack up the scoder code?

1544
01:14:34,572 --> 01:14:36,492
Speaker 3: Yes, the team at Scoda want to send you and

1545
01:14:36,652 --> 01:14:38,893
Speaker 3: a mate to experience the Tour de France when you

1546
01:14:38,933 --> 01:14:41,013
Speaker 3: play Skoda codes, but if you could do with some

1547
01:14:41,253 --> 01:14:43,932
Speaker 3: help cracking today's Scoter code. You'll be wanting a clue

1548
01:14:43,933 --> 01:14:44,692
Speaker 3: and we can help with that.

1549
01:14:45,013 --> 01:14:48,213
Speaker 2: Here you go in motion on your way or simply

1550
01:14:48,333 --> 01:14:51,572
Speaker 2: not stopping that clue again in motion on your way,

1551
01:14:52,053 --> 01:14:54,012
Speaker 2: or simply not stopping kryptic.

1552
01:14:54,093 --> 01:14:56,652
Speaker 3: But that will all make sense when you visit Scoda

1553
01:14:56,772 --> 01:14:59,293
Speaker 3: dot co dot nz right now to be in to

1554
01:14:59,333 --> 01:15:02,133
Speaker 3: win that fantastic trip to the Tour de France. Four

1555
01:15:02,133 --> 01:15:05,253
Speaker 3: to two and we're confident you will crack that Skoda code.

1556
01:15:05,853 --> 01:15:08,772
Speaker 3: But back to our discussion about psilocybin and met Marsham's

1557
01:15:08,772 --> 01:15:10,333
Speaker 3: plenty of texts coming through on nine two nine two.

1558
01:15:10,452 --> 01:15:12,093
Speaker 2: This stick says, yo, guys, what are you doing? I

1559
01:15:12,173 --> 01:15:15,333
Speaker 2: had a detrurer party at my place when I was sixteen,

1560
01:15:15,372 --> 01:15:17,133
Speaker 2: trip for three days, ended up in the pre sale.

1561
01:15:17,173 --> 01:15:20,052
Speaker 2: Wasn't spiritual in the slices? Yeah, do not go anywhere

1562
01:15:20,133 --> 01:15:25,452
Speaker 2: near Daytura daytura flowers from the garden of how nothing

1563
01:15:25,853 --> 01:15:31,052
Speaker 2: ever good comes from anyone that ever takes the daytura plant.

1564
01:15:31,333 --> 01:15:34,532
Speaker 3: How's bells. I think some people call it absolutely whatever

1565
01:15:34,612 --> 01:15:34,812
Speaker 3: you do.

1566
01:15:35,293 --> 01:15:37,892
Speaker 2: You know, there are studies to say that psilocybin can

1567
01:15:38,013 --> 01:15:44,412
Speaker 2: be helpful in people with depression. Study saying daytura is

1568
01:15:44,452 --> 01:15:45,492
Speaker 2: good for anyone ever.

1569
01:15:45,692 --> 01:15:47,612
Speaker 3: I think that was based on the Manhatter and Alice

1570
01:15:47,612 --> 01:15:49,612
Speaker 3: in Wonderland, right, that he was having daytura in his

1571
01:15:49,732 --> 01:15:51,812
Speaker 3: tea and that's why he was absolutely nuts.

1572
01:15:52,652 --> 01:15:54,412
Speaker 2: The stick says, if you look closely on the back

1573
01:15:54,452 --> 01:15:55,852
Speaker 2: of the fifty do or note, you'll see a magic

1574
01:15:55,933 --> 01:15:59,492
Speaker 2: mushroom but looks like death gaps. Seriously check it out. Yeah,

1575
01:15:59,532 --> 01:16:05,053
Speaker 2: I think that's the weirdy, weirdy corcrackle, right, corcackle, Yeah, Wed,

1576
01:16:05,612 --> 01:16:08,053
Speaker 2: it's the sky blue mushroom or whatever it's called.

1577
01:16:08,133 --> 01:16:08,612
Speaker 3: That's that's right.

1578
01:16:08,692 --> 01:16:09,772
Speaker 2: Yes, don't eat that one.

1579
01:16:09,893 --> 01:16:11,452
Speaker 3: No, no, not good for you. Right, We're going to

1580
01:16:11,532 --> 01:16:13,253
Speaker 3: keep this going. So I want to hear from you.

1581
01:16:13,293 --> 01:16:17,213
Speaker 3: I a one hundred eighty ten eighty psilocybin therapy. Should

1582
01:16:17,213 --> 01:16:19,133
Speaker 3: it be open to more people? Does that sound like

1583
01:16:19,173 --> 01:16:20,053
Speaker 3: a dangerous road to you?

1584
01:16:20,213 --> 01:16:24,572
Speaker 1: News is next the big stories, the leak issues, the

1585
01:16:24,692 --> 01:16:28,452
Speaker 1: big trends and everything in between. It's Matt Heath and

1586
01:16:28,572 --> 01:16:32,333
Speaker 1: Tyler Adams Afternoon Squi Scodder News Talk said, be.

1587
01:16:33,452 --> 01:16:35,492
Speaker 3: Very good Afternoons here. Welcome back into the show. And

1588
01:16:35,572 --> 01:16:38,173
Speaker 3: we have been talking about psilocyber and that's the active

1589
01:16:38,372 --> 01:16:41,572
Speaker 3: ingredient in magic mushrooms. There's a lot of promising early

1590
01:16:41,692 --> 01:16:46,452
Speaker 3: research into using that particular drug in therapy sessions to

1591
01:16:46,612 --> 01:16:49,572
Speaker 3: deal with mental health and addiction issues. So the question

1592
01:16:49,652 --> 01:16:51,772
Speaker 3: we've got for you is do you think it should

1593
01:16:51,853 --> 01:16:54,173
Speaker 3: be easier to access to take it out of the

1594
01:16:54,253 --> 01:16:56,932
Speaker 3: shadows or would that be too dangerous? Would you try

1595
01:16:56,933 --> 01:16:58,812
Speaker 3: it yourself? I weight one hundred eighty ten eighty is

1596
01:16:58,853 --> 01:16:59,492
Speaker 3: that number to call?

1597
01:16:59,612 --> 01:17:01,852
Speaker 2: The Texas says, I would love to try the mushrooms

1598
01:17:01,893 --> 01:17:04,692
Speaker 2: in a clinical setting for my PTSD. I can't work

1599
01:17:04,732 --> 01:17:07,213
Speaker 2: and can barely function on a daily basis. I got

1600
01:17:07,253 --> 01:17:10,852
Speaker 2: it from my police work therapy revisits my many horrors.

1601
01:17:10,933 --> 01:17:14,213
Speaker 2: I've tried the medical cannabis oil, but no luck. Shout

1602
01:17:14,253 --> 01:17:17,132
Speaker 2: out for the Blue Hope Foundation, the founder of cycling

1603
01:17:17,253 --> 01:17:19,213
Speaker 2: from Wellington to the top of the North Island to

1604
01:17:19,253 --> 01:17:23,692
Speaker 2: raise awareness for our injured police Heroes, Blue Hope Foundation. Yeah,

1605
01:17:23,692 --> 01:17:24,053
Speaker 2: good on you.

1606
01:17:24,213 --> 01:17:25,173
Speaker 3: Yeah, fantasticain.

1607
01:17:25,412 --> 01:17:25,612
Speaker 15: Yeah.

1608
01:17:25,853 --> 01:17:28,452
Speaker 2: Coming out of the police force, you will see a

1609
01:17:28,492 --> 01:17:31,333
Speaker 2: lot of stuff that the rest of us never have

1610
01:17:31,492 --> 01:17:33,852
Speaker 2: to deal with. The sixth is one reason I don't

1611
01:17:33,933 --> 01:17:37,452
Speaker 2: like pharmaceutical medicines is that it is so really a cure.

1612
01:17:37,612 --> 01:17:40,973
Speaker 2: It's usually palliative care medicine that people may need to

1613
01:17:41,013 --> 01:17:43,572
Speaker 2: take ongoingly. I noticed that magic mushrooms are the same,

1614
01:17:43,692 --> 01:17:45,772
Speaker 2: not a cure, but something needing to be repeated. I

1615
01:17:45,853 --> 01:17:49,052
Speaker 2: suggest people find proper cures through complementary therapies like energy

1616
01:17:49,133 --> 01:17:52,973
Speaker 2: frequency healing. No, that's that's one of the you know,

1617
01:17:53,732 --> 01:17:58,572
Speaker 2: whatever you think about the psilocybern or magic musthrooms, well,

1618
01:17:58,853 --> 01:18:02,052
Speaker 2: sort of cybern being the active ingredient and magic mushrooms.

1619
01:18:02,452 --> 01:18:04,213
Speaker 2: That's the point that they're trying to make that it's

1620
01:18:04,333 --> 01:18:09,852
Speaker 2: one session, one or two sessions total of about six hours,

1621
01:18:10,532 --> 01:18:12,293
Speaker 2: and you know when they do it clinically, it's in

1622
01:18:12,652 --> 01:18:16,772
Speaker 2: a room with the therapist. So antidepressants are daily pearls,

1623
01:18:16,812 --> 01:18:20,173
Speaker 2: psilocybum a few one or two guided sessions.

1624
01:18:20,293 --> 01:18:23,652
Speaker 3: Yeah, So when you weigh that up, that lifelong medication

1625
01:18:23,853 --> 01:18:26,173
Speaker 3: pharmaceutical that may or may not help you and it

1626
01:18:26,213 --> 01:18:28,732
Speaker 3: does help a lot of people, doesn't help many versus

1627
01:18:28,933 --> 01:18:32,972
Speaker 3: two sessions on a particular ingredient that is out there

1628
01:18:33,133 --> 01:18:34,252
Speaker 3: but is illegal.

1629
01:18:34,692 --> 01:18:36,932
Speaker 2: And yeah, and these studies are for people with major

1630
01:18:36,973 --> 01:18:40,572
Speaker 2: depressive disorder and treatment resistant depression, you know, so people

1631
01:18:40,612 --> 01:18:44,772
Speaker 2: that have tried a lot of things, and you know

1632
01:18:44,973 --> 01:18:48,253
Speaker 2: the evidence is pretty good. Yeah, as much as you

1633
01:18:48,253 --> 01:18:50,892
Speaker 2: can get the evidence from the studies, the small samples

1634
01:18:50,933 --> 01:18:53,892
Speaker 2: and such that that has meaningful change for people.

1635
01:18:53,973 --> 01:18:55,532
Speaker 3: And just my take on it, I mean, when you've

1636
01:18:55,572 --> 01:18:57,812
Speaker 3: got someone going through something like that and they've tried

1637
01:18:57,812 --> 01:19:00,532
Speaker 3: all the legitimate options. I've tried like that texta before,

1638
01:19:00,532 --> 01:19:03,572
Speaker 3: they've tried medicinal cannabis, they've tried the pharmaceutical we're out,

1639
01:19:03,612 --> 01:19:07,093
Speaker 3: they've tried everything imaginable theory, et cetera, et cetera. None

1640
01:19:07,133 --> 01:19:09,452
Speaker 3: of it has really made any difference. And you've got

1641
01:19:09,492 --> 01:19:12,612
Speaker 3: this other potential. Maybe it won't work, but opening it

1642
01:19:12,692 --> 01:19:16,013
Speaker 3: up in that clinical therapeutic setting, to me makes a

1643
01:19:16,093 --> 01:19:18,053
Speaker 3: lot of sense that if there is a potential to

1644
01:19:18,173 --> 01:19:22,692
Speaker 3: help those people, then offering that in a more open

1645
01:19:22,812 --> 01:19:24,492
Speaker 3: manner to me is a good thing.

1646
01:19:24,572 --> 01:19:26,812
Speaker 2: But what do you say, Tim, Welcome to the show.

1647
01:19:27,772 --> 01:19:31,812
Speaker 13: How's it going guys first, especially, I'd like to say

1648
01:19:32,093 --> 01:19:35,173
Speaker 13: thank you guys really much, really for having an open

1649
01:19:35,253 --> 01:19:38,532
Speaker 13: mind on the subject. A lot of people tend to

1650
01:19:39,133 --> 01:19:41,572
Speaker 13: start with the negative, and you guys seem to have

1651
01:19:41,652 --> 01:19:44,893
Speaker 13: actually done a bit of research. So I'd like to

1652
01:19:44,933 --> 01:19:46,572
Speaker 13: stay at one point of order, and you may is

1653
01:19:47,213 --> 01:19:55,253
Speaker 13: is Class B under the missus drugs just different And

1654
01:19:55,492 --> 01:19:57,133
Speaker 13: I've written heat, I've written heats to notes and cut

1655
01:19:57,173 --> 01:19:58,532
Speaker 13: me off, and you need to because I can go on.

1656
01:19:58,652 --> 01:20:01,372
Speaker 9: I could go on for days on this stuff, so.

1657
01:20:02,853 --> 01:20:05,372
Speaker 13: I guess. And I've been talking to Sam recently about

1658
01:20:05,853 --> 01:20:08,173
Speaker 13: about foraging and finding bits and pieces because I've been

1659
01:20:09,053 --> 01:20:13,213
Speaker 13: foraging for years, actually since about nineteen ninety four, when

1660
01:20:13,253 --> 01:20:16,333
Speaker 13: I was lucky enough for my first experience with mushrooms.

1661
01:20:17,173 --> 01:20:18,692
Speaker 13: Someone who's now my friend, who I didn't know at

1662
01:20:18,732 --> 01:20:22,013
Speaker 13: the time, had picked them in Riverhead Forest and I

1663
01:20:22,133 --> 01:20:25,333
Speaker 13: only took three, which is really really lucky, because I've

1664
01:20:25,372 --> 01:20:27,973
Speaker 13: heard I know people who took twenty or thirty who

1665
01:20:28,013 --> 01:20:30,412
Speaker 13: will never touch them ever again because they went to hell.

1666
01:20:31,692 --> 01:20:34,133
Speaker 13: And that's to me, that's quite sad. And I'm forever

1667
01:20:34,253 --> 01:20:36,973
Speaker 13: thankful to this person because they made sure that I

1668
01:20:37,013 --> 01:20:39,293
Speaker 13: had a dose that I could handle, and I saw

1669
01:20:39,372 --> 01:20:41,772
Speaker 13: the joy and they had a source stomach from laughing

1670
01:20:41,933 --> 01:20:46,572
Speaker 13: so much. And a point I'd like to bring that

1671
01:20:46,692 --> 01:20:50,852
Speaker 13: Sam raised earlier, which is what actually happens when you

1672
01:20:50,973 --> 01:20:53,732
Speaker 13: take a psychedelic and it's pretty much ninety eight percent

1673
01:20:53,772 --> 01:20:55,572
Speaker 13: of people that take one, they feel that they have

1674
01:20:55,652 --> 01:20:58,692
Speaker 13: an external perspective, so they're not caught up in their

1675
01:20:58,772 --> 01:21:01,572
Speaker 13: drama or their emotions of their anxiety. You have a

1676
01:21:01,732 --> 01:21:05,293
Speaker 13: time where you can step outside and look at the

1677
01:21:05,412 --> 01:21:10,013
Speaker 13: human the human existence or the human experience with almost

1678
01:21:10,213 --> 01:21:15,732
Speaker 13: external godhead or or just a different it's almost like

1679
01:21:15,772 --> 01:21:19,412
Speaker 13: yourself looking at your personality, and it allows you to

1680
01:21:19,412 --> 01:21:21,372
Speaker 13: actually reflect on who you are and what you've done.

1681
01:21:22,293 --> 01:21:26,133
Speaker 13: And then subsequent sessions, be they yearly or or a

1682
01:21:26,213 --> 01:21:28,852
Speaker 13: couple of yearly, you actually get you can unpack what

1683
01:21:28,933 --> 01:21:31,772
Speaker 13: happens since the last one and and look at how

1684
01:21:31,893 --> 01:21:36,652
Speaker 13: you how you dealt with certain scenarios, and how you

1685
01:21:36,692 --> 01:21:39,093
Speaker 13: can do it better, how you did it well, and

1686
01:21:39,133 --> 01:21:41,293
Speaker 13: actually allows you to actually look at at who you

1687
01:21:41,372 --> 01:21:45,412
Speaker 13: are and what you've done. The loops that you talk

1688
01:21:45,412 --> 01:21:50,133
Speaker 13: about people being stuck in depression are actually one of

1689
01:21:50,173 --> 01:21:52,732
Speaker 13: the risks of psychedelic use. If you get stuck in

1690
01:21:52,812 --> 01:21:56,372
Speaker 13: a loop on something that's unpleasant, then you can spiral

1691
01:21:56,572 --> 01:22:00,652
Speaker 13: into that loop without guidance, and that can that can

1692
01:22:00,732 --> 01:22:03,893
Speaker 13: be can be be kind of scary. In fact, it

1693
01:22:03,933 --> 01:22:06,253
Speaker 13: can be hellish. Actually when if if you take a

1694
01:22:06,293 --> 01:22:09,532
Speaker 13: big enough doze in the wrong environment and be Yeah,

1695
01:22:09,933 --> 01:22:13,772
Speaker 13: it's particularly traumatizing. So there are there are serious risks involved,

1696
01:22:14,133 --> 01:22:17,893
Speaker 13: but they really easy to mitigate with good education and

1697
01:22:17,933 --> 01:22:21,093
Speaker 13: good preparation. And like all of the other things that

1698
01:22:21,173 --> 01:22:23,412
Speaker 13: we do. You don't give a teenager the key to

1699
01:22:23,452 --> 01:22:25,133
Speaker 13: the VA, check them on the motorway and they learn

1700
01:22:25,173 --> 01:22:28,933
Speaker 13: to drive right, you start in the parking lot like

1701
01:22:29,253 --> 01:22:31,572
Speaker 13: we can. We can apply the same logic and the

1702
01:22:31,612 --> 01:22:35,333
Speaker 13: same education to the use of psychedelics.

1703
01:22:35,772 --> 01:22:35,892
Speaker 5: Uh.

1704
01:22:36,213 --> 01:22:40,092
Speaker 13: And the and the fears that people have are pretty crazy,

1705
01:22:40,492 --> 01:22:43,133
Speaker 13: but I know why they're there. But it's due to

1706
01:22:43,412 --> 01:22:46,892
Speaker 13: the unknown and lack of direct experience. And I've been

1707
01:22:47,213 --> 01:22:50,492
Speaker 13: I've been part of a subculture, I guess in this

1708
01:22:50,612 --> 01:22:54,692
Speaker 13: country and internationally where we've realized that we were lied

1709
01:22:54,732 --> 01:22:57,372
Speaker 13: to about about drugs. We were told they were all

1710
01:22:57,372 --> 01:23:00,893
Speaker 13: the same, they're all dangerous, instead of being educated on

1711
01:23:00,973 --> 01:23:04,532
Speaker 13: the individual risks and benefits of each of the things.

1712
01:23:04,572 --> 01:23:07,932
Speaker 13: That are being used now these things. There are things

1713
01:23:08,013 --> 01:23:10,812
Speaker 13: being called and customs in New Zealand. There are kilos

1714
01:23:10,853 --> 01:23:15,253
Speaker 13: of MBMA ketamine, cocaine, et cetera. That's the typically iceberg.

1715
01:23:15,372 --> 01:23:20,133
Speaker 13: So there must be a massive industry that's not paying

1716
01:23:20,253 --> 01:23:23,572
Speaker 13: CAx that is out there. And this is not just

1717
01:23:23,893 --> 01:23:26,973
Speaker 13: the brown people or the poor people. This includes the

1718
01:23:27,053 --> 01:23:29,133
Speaker 13: really rich people. There's a lot of there's a lot

1719
01:23:29,173 --> 01:23:33,012
Speaker 13: of cocaine being sold in this country. So they basically

1720
01:23:33,732 --> 01:23:38,013
Speaker 13: and I should have warned you, I would like I

1721
01:23:38,093 --> 01:23:43,093
Speaker 13: would like there to be discussion about all recreational drug

1722
01:23:43,173 --> 01:23:45,333
Speaker 13: use in this country, not just mushrooms, but mushrooms is

1723
01:23:45,973 --> 01:23:50,053
Speaker 13: particularly special to me because I last time I called this,

1724
01:23:50,173 --> 01:23:54,612
Speaker 13: called this talkback was about thirty two years ago.

1725
01:23:55,253 --> 01:23:56,213
Speaker 2: Wow, and we weren't here.

1726
01:23:56,253 --> 01:24:00,892
Speaker 22: They were talking about teas, were talking about teenage suicide, right,

1727
01:24:00,973 --> 01:24:05,213
Speaker 22: And I've experienced a really close friend of mine, he

1728
01:24:05,293 --> 01:24:07,333
Speaker 22: wasn't a teenager at the time, but I was who

1729
01:24:07,412 --> 01:24:08,252
Speaker 22: committed suicide.

1730
01:24:09,333 --> 01:24:13,572
Speaker 13: And one of the reasons, potentially was that he was

1731
01:24:14,692 --> 01:24:16,852
Speaker 13: he was prescribed the s s RIS and sent home

1732
01:24:16,933 --> 01:24:19,452
Speaker 13: from the psych ward and three days later it was dead.

1733
01:24:19,692 --> 01:24:21,772
Speaker 13: And this is one of the things that the that's

1734
01:24:22,253 --> 01:24:23,772
Speaker 13: at the time they kind of knew but kind of

1735
01:24:23,812 --> 01:24:24,372
Speaker 13: said they didn't.

1736
01:24:24,532 --> 01:24:29,093
Speaker 2: But the CSRI is being just traditional antidepressants select.

1737
01:24:28,853 --> 01:24:31,532
Speaker 13: The serotoninal re uptake inhibitors, so the likes of prozac, yeah,

1738
01:24:31,812 --> 01:24:34,133
Speaker 13: et cetera, and the and they and they one of

1739
01:24:34,253 --> 01:24:38,013
Speaker 13: the one of the main groups of H two one

1740
01:24:38,053 --> 01:24:42,093
Speaker 13: a agonist that they or uptake inhibitors that that are

1741
01:24:42,133 --> 01:24:45,572
Speaker 13: being prescribed. And and what they noticed in the first

1742
01:24:45,612 --> 01:24:50,053
Speaker 13: two weeks of taking these the danity depressants. Someone who

1743
01:24:50,133 --> 01:24:52,692
Speaker 13: is currently depressed doesn't have the energy to do anything stupid.

1744
01:24:53,293 --> 01:24:55,412
Speaker 13: And one of the first impacts of an s s

1745
01:24:55,572 --> 01:24:58,692
Speaker 13: RI I is to is this energy boost. And they

1746
01:24:58,732 --> 01:25:01,053
Speaker 13: were finding women were coming in see the therapists within

1747
01:25:01,293 --> 01:25:03,372
Speaker 13: the hair done and and lips, the con and stuff,

1748
01:25:03,412 --> 01:25:05,012
Speaker 13: and then that be found dead in the car park.

1749
01:25:06,013 --> 01:25:08,652
Speaker 13: So that was potentially one of the reasons is why

1750
01:25:08,732 --> 01:25:11,692
Speaker 13: my friend was successful in taking his own life. But

1751
01:25:12,372 --> 01:25:15,612
Speaker 13: the fallout from that I had. I saw a mum

1752
01:25:15,692 --> 01:25:17,532
Speaker 13: working all the time, she didn't have time to talk

1753
01:25:17,532 --> 01:25:19,652
Speaker 13: to me about it. There was no support at school,

1754
01:25:20,293 --> 01:25:22,452
Speaker 13: There was no mental health support at all.

1755
01:25:22,452 --> 01:25:22,772
Speaker 6: At the time.

1756
01:25:22,812 --> 01:25:25,412
Speaker 13: The framework was really poor. It's improved a lot of sense,

1757
01:25:25,412 --> 01:25:26,732
Speaker 13: which is good, but I think we've still got a

1758
01:25:26,772 --> 01:25:30,213
Speaker 13: long way that we can go. But I had two

1759
01:25:30,532 --> 01:25:33,492
Speaker 13: very dear friends who were faced with me this over

1760
01:25:33,612 --> 01:25:38,612
Speaker 13: emotional young man, and well, they didn't know what to do,

1761
01:25:38,812 --> 01:25:41,692
Speaker 13: so they, yeah, they got me really stone on canvas

1762
01:25:42,013 --> 01:25:46,372
Speaker 13: and kept me really calm until the flare of emotion

1763
01:25:46,732 --> 01:25:49,173
Speaker 13: after a few weeks came down enough for me to bear.

1764
01:25:49,572 --> 01:25:52,572
Speaker 13: And I actually believed that that that ken had saved

1765
01:25:52,612 --> 01:25:55,492
Speaker 13: my life. And my friends who didn't know what to do,

1766
01:25:55,652 --> 01:25:59,052
Speaker 13: and they did the best they could and they helped

1767
01:25:59,253 --> 01:26:00,612
Speaker 13: keep me keep me moving.

1768
01:26:00,652 --> 01:26:00,772
Speaker 15: Now.

1769
01:26:00,812 --> 01:26:02,692
Speaker 13: I went out to talk to the parents of this

1770
01:26:02,812 --> 01:26:04,612
Speaker 13: guy who they're living in the same house where I

1771
01:26:04,933 --> 01:26:06,852
Speaker 13: where I grew up, and I asked them if I

1772
01:26:06,853 --> 01:26:09,213
Speaker 13: could share this story as part of of I get

1773
01:26:09,253 --> 01:26:12,253
Speaker 13: a bit of a crusade to try and encourage society

1774
01:26:12,452 --> 01:26:16,652
Speaker 13: to be kinder to each other and accept that everyone

1775
01:26:16,853 --> 01:26:22,172
Speaker 13: likes to get high, be it grandparents, grandkids, sisters, brothers, lawyers,

1776
01:26:22,532 --> 01:26:26,772
Speaker 13: cleaning lady's CEOs, doctors, like, everyone likes to get high

1777
01:26:26,853 --> 01:26:29,652
Speaker 13: on something, and a lot of people also like to

1778
01:26:29,732 --> 01:26:33,812
Speaker 13: points finger that I'd really like to I really like

1779
01:26:34,053 --> 01:26:36,612
Speaker 13: the conversations to start coming out because there's clearly like

1780
01:26:36,692 --> 01:26:38,572
Speaker 13: the drug testing stuff that technical in New Zealand's a

1781
01:26:38,612 --> 01:26:42,412
Speaker 13: lot of stuff being tested the wastewater testment testing there

1782
01:26:43,133 --> 01:26:45,093
Speaker 13: that they know what people are using because it's in

1783
01:26:45,213 --> 01:26:47,892
Speaker 13: the wastewater. Now people are scared, the scared that they

1784
01:26:47,973 --> 01:26:52,972
Speaker 13: might start isolating and isolating individuals rather than going isn't

1785
01:26:53,253 --> 01:26:57,853
Speaker 13: this a symptom that suggests that we need to revisit

1786
01:26:58,333 --> 01:27:01,412
Speaker 13: what we're using and how we're treating people who are

1787
01:27:01,492 --> 01:27:02,013
Speaker 13: using them.

1788
01:27:02,692 --> 01:27:07,652
Speaker 2: Now, Tom, can I just ask you a question that's

1789
01:27:07,652 --> 01:27:09,933
Speaker 2: a very interesting and you obviously thought deeply about it,

1790
01:27:10,093 --> 01:27:13,173
Speaker 2: and I really appreciate your thoughts. Now, of course, the

1791
01:27:13,253 --> 01:27:16,652
Speaker 2: famous you know, psychedelic saying was, you know, from Timothy

1792
01:27:16,732 --> 01:27:20,293
Speaker 2: Leary in the late sixties was turn on, tune out,

1793
01:27:20,412 --> 01:27:24,093
Speaker 2: drop out. And you're saying that, you know, there's sort

1794
01:27:24,133 --> 01:27:27,293
Speaker 2: of a counterculture part of this. Is there a concern

1795
01:27:27,572 --> 01:27:31,253
Speaker 2: that once you break those sort of you know, the

1796
01:27:31,333 --> 01:27:35,532
Speaker 2: default mode network, and you break out of the life

1797
01:27:35,612 --> 01:27:38,692
Speaker 2: and you see the universe for what it is, that

1798
01:27:38,933 --> 01:27:42,532
Speaker 2: society doesn't make sense to people and then they fail

1799
01:27:42,732 --> 01:27:45,892
Speaker 2: to be able to be functional members of the economy.

1800
01:27:45,933 --> 01:27:47,572
Speaker 2: If you see what I'm saying, If you if you

1801
01:27:47,692 --> 01:27:50,413
Speaker 2: turn on tune out and drop out completely.

1802
01:27:50,532 --> 01:27:53,612
Speaker 13: And that is a serious risk. And the reason the

1803
01:27:53,652 --> 01:27:57,132
Speaker 13: reason is I said it's a serious risk, it's because

1804
01:27:57,612 --> 01:28:00,372
Speaker 13: there's a lot of anxiety in society today. And I

1805
01:28:00,492 --> 01:28:02,972
Speaker 13: believe a lot of that is because we all see

1806
01:28:03,013 --> 01:28:06,253
Speaker 13: that we're actually hurtling, potentially towards extinction because we're not

1807
01:28:06,372 --> 01:28:12,053
Speaker 13: addressing some really important things in life. Like we talk

1808
01:28:12,093 --> 01:28:15,932
Speaker 13: about at about carbon dioxide, but that's a smoke screen,

1809
01:28:15,973 --> 01:28:18,412
Speaker 13: and smoke is actually like carbon in the sky, but

1810
01:28:19,973 --> 01:28:22,053
Speaker 13: it's not just a carbon we're using it. It's the

1811
01:28:22,093 --> 01:28:24,372
Speaker 13: way we're using our resources. It's the way we're looking

1812
01:28:24,412 --> 01:28:27,812
Speaker 13: at continuous growth instead of trying to actually work with nature.

1813
01:28:28,772 --> 01:28:32,132
Speaker 13: So there are some significant risks because people are becoming

1814
01:28:32,173 --> 01:28:35,772
Speaker 13: aware now. I've worked in the corporate environment where fifteen

1815
01:28:35,853 --> 01:28:37,333
Speaker 13: years ago I was being laughed at when I was

1816
01:28:37,333 --> 01:28:41,052
Speaker 13: talking about sustainability, and now sustainability is front and center

1817
01:28:41,293 --> 01:28:44,452
Speaker 13: in most of our major civil and construction projects. And

1818
01:28:44,532 --> 01:28:45,973
Speaker 13: I was sitting in a bid meeting where I had

1819
01:28:46,013 --> 01:28:47,652
Speaker 13: someone laughing and we better not get a Hippian to

1820
01:28:47,652 --> 01:28:50,932
Speaker 13: talk about sustainability. And I said, well, so you're suggesting

1821
01:28:50,973 --> 01:28:52,973
Speaker 13: that just because you know how may work somehow that

1822
01:28:53,133 --> 01:28:58,053
Speaker 13: gives you the monopoly on how to administer sustainability. Sustainable

1823
01:28:58,173 --> 01:29:01,093
Speaker 13: and all of all of the major corporates you go through,

1824
01:29:01,093 --> 01:29:04,372
Speaker 13: they'll have recycling and they'll have organic material.

1825
01:29:04,492 --> 01:29:06,012
Speaker 9: Like people are.

1826
01:29:05,933 --> 01:29:09,333
Speaker 13: Aware that we need to change, render bit too scared

1827
01:29:09,372 --> 01:29:12,732
Speaker 13: and that fear of breaking society. I believe it's a

1828
01:29:12,812 --> 01:29:15,732
Speaker 13: way of allowing us to actually work together and look

1829
01:29:15,772 --> 01:29:19,333
Speaker 13: at what we're doing and instead of trying to break it,

1830
01:29:19,532 --> 01:29:22,933
Speaker 13: actually shift and make the changes that we need to

1831
01:29:23,492 --> 01:29:27,052
Speaker 13: get more intrajectory where we can, where we can actually

1832
01:29:27,893 --> 01:29:31,092
Speaker 13: haven't have a future, rather than put them towards the abyss.

1833
01:29:31,492 --> 01:29:33,572
Speaker 3: Thank you very much. Yeah, no, you've stated your case

1834
01:29:33,732 --> 01:29:36,652
Speaker 3: very well. Thank you very much. Interesting fellow, and obviously

1835
01:29:36,772 --> 01:29:39,012
Speaker 3: you've had some lived experience with a lot of that stuff.

1836
01:29:39,213 --> 01:29:42,013
Speaker 2: And ironically we have to cut you off there to

1837
01:29:42,053 --> 01:29:42,812
Speaker 2: play some ads.

1838
01:29:43,053 --> 01:29:45,572
Speaker 3: Yeah, call any time, though, Tim really enjoyed that conversation

1839
01:29:45,692 --> 01:29:48,333
Speaker 3: and taking your calls on our eight hundred eighty ten

1840
01:29:48,572 --> 01:29:51,852
Speaker 3: eighty psilocybin. Should it be more readily available or is

1841
01:29:51,893 --> 01:29:53,972
Speaker 3: that a dangerous road to go down. It's twenty past three,

1842
01:29:54,532 --> 01:29:57,053
Speaker 3: is talk said be for a good afternoons. You're talking

1843
01:29:57,053 --> 01:29:59,812
Speaker 3: about stillo cybin use within New Zealand. Plenty of texts

1844
01:29:59,812 --> 01:30:00,293
Speaker 3: coming through.

1845
01:30:01,053 --> 01:30:03,652
Speaker 2: Hey as hi guys. Seriously, I've never felt a need

1846
01:30:03,732 --> 01:30:07,093
Speaker 2: to get high. I don't believe everyone does. I think

1847
01:30:07,133 --> 01:30:08,933
Speaker 2: we all strive to be content, which is not the

1848
01:30:08,973 --> 01:30:12,213
Speaker 2: same duty. That's a good point. I mean, tranquility is

1849
01:30:12,293 --> 01:30:16,053
Speaker 2: the a few moments of tranquility here and there what

1850
01:30:16,372 --> 01:30:18,692
Speaker 2: people are generally trying to find. Yeah, and some people

1851
01:30:18,812 --> 01:30:21,253
Speaker 2: get it through getting high or think they can chase

1852
01:30:21,293 --> 01:30:23,452
Speaker 2: it through getting high. But was Tom exercise is a

1853
01:30:23,492 --> 01:30:24,133
Speaker 2: good one to get there?

1854
01:30:24,213 --> 01:30:26,333
Speaker 3: Yeah, definitely, But was Tom sort of talking about most

1855
01:30:26,372 --> 01:30:28,652
Speaker 3: of us takes some sort of stimulant, whether that's coffee

1856
01:30:28,853 --> 01:30:31,133
Speaker 3: or nicotine or a little bit of alcohol. You know,

1857
01:30:31,293 --> 01:30:34,293
Speaker 3: most of us would change or ulter our mind.

1858
01:30:34,293 --> 01:30:36,253
Speaker 2: Limits a little bit of alcohol. Most of us smash

1859
01:30:36,293 --> 01:30:37,372
Speaker 2: a crapload of alcohol.

1860
01:30:37,572 --> 01:30:37,772
Speaker 13: Yeah.

1861
01:30:39,333 --> 01:30:41,412
Speaker 2: Do they have ways to help you if you start

1862
01:30:41,492 --> 01:30:44,372
Speaker 2: having a bad chip or start going too harsh? Yeah,

1863
01:30:44,412 --> 01:30:46,452
Speaker 2: And the clinical ones and the therapy sessions that they're

1864
01:30:46,492 --> 01:30:49,772
Speaker 2: talking about, and some of these ones, these trials we're

1865
01:30:49,772 --> 01:30:54,452
Speaker 2: talking about. Yeah, you're with two therapists and so they

1866
01:30:54,853 --> 01:31:00,572
Speaker 2: put you on the psilocybin in a therapist's treatments, and yeah,

1867
01:31:00,692 --> 01:31:03,412
Speaker 2: they help you through it. They say the right things

1868
01:31:03,652 --> 01:31:04,852
Speaker 2: and get you through it right.

1869
01:31:04,772 --> 01:31:07,253
Speaker 3: Which is what you'd want, which is coming into that

1870
01:31:07,333 --> 01:31:07,892
Speaker 3: which is very.

1871
01:31:07,772 --> 01:31:10,213
Speaker 2: Different from just picking some shrooms off the side of

1872
01:31:10,253 --> 01:31:13,492
Speaker 2: the road and slamming them. Yeah, magic mushrooms. Shrooms treatment

1873
01:31:13,612 --> 01:31:15,133
Speaker 2: is on the rise in the US and has seen

1874
01:31:15,173 --> 01:31:17,612
Speaker 2: incredible success rate with war vets. Yeah, I was talking

1875
01:31:17,652 --> 01:31:19,612
Speaker 2: about this before. It should be allowed in New Zealand

1876
01:31:19,692 --> 01:31:25,133
Speaker 2: with careful controlled administration. That's a fantastic text that comes through. Boys.

1877
01:31:25,213 --> 01:31:27,973
Speaker 2: I took magic mushrooms in Bali and ran into the

1878
01:31:28,013 --> 01:31:30,652
Speaker 2: back of a forty seater bus, which I haven't hadn't

1879
01:31:30,692 --> 01:31:33,093
Speaker 2: seen yet. I don't think they were the right ones

1880
01:31:33,173 --> 01:31:35,932
Speaker 2: for depression. But I'm okay, Phil, good to hear you, Okay,

1881
01:31:36,173 --> 01:31:40,573
Speaker 2: PHILM I mean it's incredibly decent dangerous to be hallucinating

1882
01:31:40,612 --> 01:31:43,293
Speaker 2: when you're out anywhere near traffic. Let's just say that.

1883
01:31:43,532 --> 01:31:45,652
Speaker 3: And can I just say illegal drugs and Bali, I

1884
01:31:45,732 --> 01:31:47,812
Speaker 3: mean that is incredibly risky as well. Phil, So glad

1885
01:31:47,812 --> 01:31:50,012
Speaker 3: you got home and glad you're okay after running into

1886
01:31:50,013 --> 01:31:52,372
Speaker 3: a bus. Keep those texts coming through. On nine to

1887
01:31:52,853 --> 01:31:56,012
Speaker 3: nine two beg very shortly. It is twenty four bus reep.

1888
01:31:59,652 --> 01:32:03,053
Speaker 1: Mad Heathen Tyler Adams afternoons call oh eight hundred and

1889
01:32:03,093 --> 01:32:04,812
Speaker 1: eighty ten eighty on news Talk.

1890
01:32:04,692 --> 01:32:09,252
Speaker 3: ZV twenty seven past three rods. How are you the safternoon?

1891
01:32:10,253 --> 01:32:11,652
Speaker 5: I'm good man, it's great show.

1892
01:32:11,973 --> 01:32:13,812
Speaker 3: Thank you and tea.

1893
01:32:14,093 --> 01:32:20,092
Speaker 5: Look keep it short. Look, I took magic mushrooms for years,

1894
01:32:20,253 --> 01:32:22,173
Speaker 5: you know, and I had, you know, sort of some

1895
01:32:22,492 --> 01:32:26,293
Speaker 5: really mystical experiences and some good stuff.

1896
01:32:26,412 --> 01:32:26,572
Speaker 19: You know.

1897
01:32:26,692 --> 01:32:27,732
Speaker 9: I take thirty at.

1898
01:32:27,652 --> 01:32:31,772
Speaker 5: A time, and lived in Poleenque down in South Mexico.

1899
01:32:31,812 --> 01:32:34,372
Speaker 5: We used to go out, you know, into the fields

1900
01:32:34,452 --> 01:32:38,212
Speaker 5: by the Mayan ruins and pick them and eat.

1901
01:32:38,093 --> 01:32:38,692
Speaker 18: Them, and then.

1902
01:32:40,492 --> 01:32:44,133
Speaker 5: You get in touch with Lord Prikhal, you know, the

1903
01:32:44,253 --> 01:32:50,652
Speaker 5: Mayan god king or mushroom god king. But I think

1904
01:32:51,133 --> 01:32:54,173
Speaker 5: we've got to remember it's great that psychedelics have been

1905
01:32:54,333 --> 01:32:59,652
Speaker 5: used and experimented with therapeutics, but at the same time,

1906
01:33:01,013 --> 01:33:04,652
Speaker 5: magic mushrooms can trigger depression. I mean I as I say,

1907
01:33:04,772 --> 01:33:07,933
Speaker 5: I took them for years, and I took lots of psychedelics,

1908
01:33:07,973 --> 01:33:12,013
Speaker 5: you know, LSD even DMT, which is a trip to mean,

1909
01:33:12,372 --> 01:33:16,293
Speaker 5: which is related to psilocybin. You know, you sort of

1910
01:33:17,053 --> 01:33:19,133
Speaker 5: go into a dark room while on the bed and

1911
01:33:19,772 --> 01:33:22,812
Speaker 5: eat a big bunch and just you know, watch the

1912
01:33:22,853 --> 01:33:27,012
Speaker 5: patterns behind your eyes and experience all sorts of profound

1913
01:33:27,213 --> 01:33:32,133
Speaker 5: things like the band Shpongle talks about, you know, but

1914
01:33:32,333 --> 01:33:35,372
Speaker 5: at the same time, you know, and Terrence McKenna, you know,

1915
01:33:35,732 --> 01:33:39,492
Speaker 5: talk about the heroic dose, you know, taking you know,

1916
01:33:39,853 --> 01:33:40,532
Speaker 5: the bunch.

1917
01:33:40,933 --> 01:33:44,452
Speaker 7: But you know, Alan Watt's.

1918
01:33:45,772 --> 01:33:49,772
Speaker 5: The drunkard sort of hippie Buddhist philosopher said, you know,

1919
01:33:50,053 --> 01:33:53,333
Speaker 5: you get a message, you know, you hang up the phone.

1920
01:33:53,772 --> 01:33:56,492
Speaker 6: And I never did, and you know a few times

1921
01:33:56,532 --> 01:33:57,253
Speaker 6: I took them and.

1922
01:33:58,492 --> 01:34:01,213
Speaker 5: I just spiraled into depression for years. So I think

1923
01:34:01,532 --> 01:34:04,013
Speaker 5: we've got to realize, we've got to remember that it's

1924
01:34:04,293 --> 01:34:07,932
Speaker 5: not all you know, happy sort of them.

1925
01:34:08,412 --> 01:34:12,532
Speaker 2: I mean, absolutely right. And that's why this sort of

1926
01:34:12,732 --> 01:34:17,213
Speaker 2: therapeutical approach where you have people there as the safer one,

1927
01:34:17,293 --> 01:34:19,093
Speaker 2: that the sort of clinical one. But you know, there's

1928
01:34:19,093 --> 01:34:23,173
Speaker 2: no doubt anxiety panic, and it can mental it can

1929
01:34:23,213 --> 01:34:27,293
Speaker 2: worsen people's mental illness and some people and psychosis with

1930
01:34:27,452 --> 01:34:31,932
Speaker 2: some people with bipolar patients. So there's digitally huge risks

1931
01:34:31,973 --> 01:34:34,612
Speaker 2: and any kind of psychedelic and missing with your mind

1932
01:34:34,853 --> 01:34:36,732
Speaker 2: in that fashion as comes with risk.

1933
01:34:36,893 --> 01:34:41,013
Speaker 5: Yeah, I haven't growing outside the house, the house we

1934
01:34:41,093 --> 01:34:45,692
Speaker 5: had and cderenny, I just go outside. And because I've

1935
01:34:45,732 --> 01:34:48,893
Speaker 5: been taking so many mushrooms and psychedelics for years, I

1936
01:34:48,973 --> 01:34:51,852
Speaker 5: thought this was a sign from God, you know, which

1937
01:34:51,973 --> 01:34:53,812
Speaker 5: is you know these days?

1938
01:34:55,933 --> 01:34:59,532
Speaker 2: Hum hum, But hey, look you guys, great show. Thank

1939
01:34:59,572 --> 01:35:01,612
Speaker 2: you so much for calling right and you've I'm a

1940
01:35:01,652 --> 01:35:03,612
Speaker 2: big fan of Alan Watts, so if anyone brings up

1941
01:35:03,652 --> 01:35:06,612
Speaker 2: Alan Watts, I'm going to quote him. But I think

1942
01:35:06,652 --> 01:35:08,532
Speaker 2: this was it. Justin before that we were to looking

1943
01:35:08,612 --> 01:35:12,133
Speaker 2: to and describing about how psychedelic trip makes you look

1944
01:35:12,213 --> 01:35:15,173
Speaker 2: back on humanity in a different way, and Alan Watts

1945
01:35:15,293 --> 01:35:19,893
Speaker 2: described it the best. I think. Through our eyes, the

1946
01:35:20,013 --> 01:35:23,213
Speaker 2: universe is perceiving itself. Through our ears, the universe is

1947
01:35:23,293 --> 01:35:26,612
Speaker 2: listening to its harmonies. We are the witnesses through which

1948
01:35:26,652 --> 01:35:31,333
Speaker 2: the universe becomes conscious of its glory, of its magnificent magnificence.

1949
01:35:31,492 --> 01:35:31,893
Speaker 2: How about that?

1950
01:35:32,213 --> 01:35:32,772
Speaker 3: That is God.

1951
01:35:33,253 --> 01:35:35,053
Speaker 2: We do not come into this world. We come out

1952
01:35:35,093 --> 01:35:38,452
Speaker 2: of it as leaves from a tree, as the ocean waves.

1953
01:35:38,572 --> 01:35:42,093
Speaker 2: The universe. Peoples, every individual is an expression of the

1954
01:35:42,173 --> 01:35:46,253
Speaker 2: whole realm of nature, a unique action of the total universe.

1955
01:35:46,053 --> 01:35:48,372
Speaker 3: Cheesey nails. It doesn't he that is a good trip

1956
01:35:48,452 --> 01:35:48,772
Speaker 3: right there?

1957
01:35:49,293 --> 01:35:51,053
Speaker 2: He had a couple of trips there.

1958
01:35:51,093 --> 01:35:51,932
Speaker 3: I bet he did.

1959
01:35:52,013 --> 01:35:52,133
Speaker 9: Right.

1960
01:35:52,213 --> 01:35:54,652
Speaker 3: Oh, one hundred eighty ten eighty is the number to

1961
01:35:54,732 --> 01:35:57,772
Speaker 3: call psilocybin should it be more readily available? That is

1962
01:35:57,812 --> 01:36:00,452
Speaker 3: of course magic mushrooms in New Zealand? Or is that

1963
01:36:00,572 --> 01:36:02,532
Speaker 3: too far in your eyes? And if you've tried it,

1964
01:36:02,652 --> 01:36:03,653
Speaker 3: what was the experience?

1965
01:36:03,853 --> 01:36:03,893
Speaker 1: Like?

1966
01:36:04,093 --> 01:36:05,013
Speaker 3: Our headlines coming up?

1967
01:36:05,013 --> 01:36:09,253
Speaker 20: It is twenty ninety four, News Talk said, be headlines

1968
01:36:09,492 --> 01:36:12,213
Speaker 20: with your Ride, New Zealand's number one taxi app.

1969
01:36:12,372 --> 01:36:17,213
Speaker 10: Download your Ride today. Changing fuel specifications could be on

1970
01:36:17,293 --> 01:36:21,132
Speaker 10: the cards as the government assesses our stocks with roughly

1971
01:36:21,253 --> 01:36:24,892
Speaker 10: fifty days worth in the country or en route. Israels

1972
01:36:24,933 --> 01:36:27,933
Speaker 10: attacked one of the world's largest natural gas fields in

1973
01:36:28,053 --> 01:36:32,372
Speaker 10: Iran overnight, sending Brent crude oil prices surging to one

1974
01:36:32,452 --> 01:36:33,692
Speaker 10: hundred and ten US.

1975
01:36:33,532 --> 01:36:34,372
Speaker 3: Dollars a barrel.

1976
01:36:34,853 --> 01:36:38,372
Speaker 10: Australia's changed its rules to allow sales of so called

1977
01:36:38,612 --> 01:36:43,132
Speaker 10: dirtier fuel with higher sulfur. New data shows New Zealand's

1978
01:36:43,173 --> 01:36:46,612
Speaker 10: economy is weaker than thought, with GDP growing just zero

1979
01:36:46,812 --> 01:36:50,412
Speaker 10: point two percent in the December quarter. A fire at

1980
01:36:50,452 --> 01:36:53,053
Speaker 10: an automotive business in Auckland's Ponts and be near a

1981
01:36:53,173 --> 01:36:59,213
Speaker 10: z petrol station is now contained. Concerns pests wallabies are

1982
01:36:59,372 --> 01:37:03,732
Speaker 10: being or pets. Pyes, sorry, pest wallabies are being treated

1983
01:37:03,812 --> 01:37:07,772
Speaker 10: as pets in Hamilton after an autopsy on a wallabee

1984
01:37:07,812 --> 01:37:10,892
Speaker 10: found dead in Frankton shows it may have been fed

1985
01:37:10,973 --> 01:37:14,893
Speaker 10: domestic vegetables. Rocket Lab is one of three hundred and

1986
01:37:14,973 --> 01:37:18,093
Speaker 10: twenty seven million dollar four year contract with the US

1987
01:37:18,213 --> 01:37:22,772
Speaker 10: Department of War for hypersonic flight tests. Is this the

1988
01:37:22,973 --> 01:37:26,492
Speaker 10: most disliked rugby player in history? See the full column

1989
01:37:26,492 --> 01:37:29,932
Speaker 10: It ends in Herald Premium back to Matte from Tyler Adam.

1990
01:37:29,772 --> 01:37:30,452
Speaker 3: Ban zerey Lean.

1991
01:37:30,532 --> 01:37:33,732
Speaker 2: It is twenty five to four The sexas says, all

1992
01:37:33,772 --> 01:37:36,213
Speaker 2: these fellows who say they've taken mushrooms for years speak

1993
01:37:36,293 --> 01:37:38,652
Speaker 2: quite slow and about the same thing quite a few times.

1994
01:37:38,772 --> 01:37:41,692
Speaker 2: Maybe that's some of the slight effects, Hey, fellers, I

1995
01:37:41,812 --> 01:37:44,532
Speaker 2: seriously od the first time I trade mushies. I kept

1996
01:37:44,572 --> 01:37:47,293
Speaker 2: on just munching them, mushroom after mushroom, as I had

1997
01:37:47,372 --> 01:37:51,173
Speaker 2: no idea, and I like mushrooms. Really, I don't taste

1998
01:37:51,213 --> 01:37:53,372
Speaker 2: that great. My mate came and tapped me on the

1999
01:37:53,412 --> 01:37:55,012
Speaker 2: shoulder and said, I think you should stop.

2000
01:37:55,053 --> 01:37:55,213
Speaker 6: Man.

2001
01:37:55,372 --> 01:37:57,253
Speaker 2: I passed out with my hands on my face and

2002
01:37:57,372 --> 01:37:59,772
Speaker 2: woke up with the party having cleared out, me in

2003
01:37:59,853 --> 01:38:01,812
Speaker 2: the same spots, sitting up and it was like six

2004
01:38:01,893 --> 01:38:04,213
Speaker 2: hours later, not for me at all. My advice be

2005
01:38:04,652 --> 01:38:07,452
Speaker 2: very careful people. Cheers for your texts, Taylor.

2006
01:38:07,532 --> 01:38:09,652
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think that's advice at the end. Be careful.

2007
01:38:09,812 --> 01:38:11,652
Speaker 3: Oh one hundred and eighteen eighties and number to call

2008
01:38:11,853 --> 01:38:16,973
Speaker 3: get a Jordan. Hey, guys, Hey, nice to chat with you.

2009
01:38:17,173 --> 01:38:20,293
Speaker 3: So can you hear about your experiences with psilocybin.

2010
01:38:21,293 --> 01:38:28,772
Speaker 23: Yeah, I've mostly had i'd say ninety positive experiences and

2011
01:38:28,933 --> 01:38:34,092
Speaker 23: my experiences taking psilocyber either by myself or with trusted friends.

2012
01:38:36,492 --> 01:38:39,253
Speaker 3: Yep, ninety nine percent is pretty good. So what were

2013
01:38:39,293 --> 01:38:42,692
Speaker 3: those experiences? You know, give us the context around what

2014
01:38:42,853 --> 01:38:44,852
Speaker 3: those experiences were like. We had them.

2015
01:38:46,572 --> 01:38:51,973
Speaker 23: Sometimes it was us in nature on overnight camping. Sometimes

2016
01:38:52,053 --> 01:38:57,612
Speaker 23: it was at a friend's house. I feel some of

2017
01:38:57,652 --> 01:39:00,653
Speaker 23: the best tingues where there was a sense of adventure

2018
01:39:00,812 --> 01:39:06,612
Speaker 23: of walking through like the native bush and having good conversations.

2019
01:39:06,933 --> 01:39:08,013
Speaker 15: And also.

2020
01:39:09,412 --> 01:39:13,612
Speaker 23: I think the thing that something like psilocybin kind of

2021
01:39:13,812 --> 01:39:19,053
Speaker 23: really promotes is like an internal self reflection. But from

2022
01:39:19,133 --> 01:39:24,893
Speaker 23: a like a safe psychic distance. You're able to process

2023
01:39:26,213 --> 01:39:34,973
Speaker 23: and hold traumatic thoughts without them without getting am I

2024
01:39:35,053 --> 01:39:38,892
Speaker 23: trying to say, you can feel the emotion and process

2025
01:39:38,933 --> 01:39:42,452
Speaker 23: the emotion and stick with it without it being put

2026
01:39:42,532 --> 01:39:49,093
Speaker 23: into the two hard basket or without it becoming emotionally overwhelming.

2027
01:39:49,333 --> 01:39:53,893
Speaker 2: Do you think that maybe is why Jordan, these researchers

2028
01:39:55,093 --> 01:39:58,333
Speaker 2: seem to notice that it breaks people out of ruminations

2029
01:39:58,412 --> 01:40:01,092
Speaker 2: and it breaks but they call it the default mode network,

2030
01:40:01,133 --> 01:40:03,572
Speaker 2: where your brain's just following the same path over and

2031
01:40:03,652 --> 01:40:06,412
Speaker 2: over again, and when the people in depressive modes, that

2032
01:40:06,492 --> 01:40:10,452
Speaker 2: becomes a path that just accentuates depression. Do you think

2033
01:40:11,013 --> 01:40:15,053
Speaker 2: that's possibly the two things are linked in terms of

2034
01:40:15,853 --> 01:40:18,492
Speaker 2: dealing with depression and sitting outside yourself.

2035
01:40:18,532 --> 01:40:22,653
Speaker 17: As you're saying, yeah, as a neurological kind of explanation

2036
01:40:22,853 --> 01:40:25,932
Speaker 17: for that, like the science behind it, I would say,

2037
01:40:25,973 --> 01:40:30,812
Speaker 17: that's exactly what it's doing. And even before we kind

2038
01:40:30,853 --> 01:40:34,012
Speaker 17: of knew all that we know now in the fields

2039
01:40:34,053 --> 01:40:37,772
Speaker 17: of neuroscience, I mean so much as we're only scraping

2040
01:40:37,853 --> 01:40:40,572
Speaker 17: the surface of it, right, But if you think of

2041
01:40:40,893 --> 01:40:44,732
Speaker 17: historically so many different cultures around the world, we're using

2042
01:40:45,412 --> 01:40:54,412
Speaker 17: psilocybin and cactus and other pathogens and tactogens. For I

2043
01:40:54,412 --> 01:40:58,213
Speaker 17: would say therapeutic uses, and I guess that the main

2044
01:40:58,372 --> 01:41:00,452
Speaker 17: thing that they had back then. They were always done

2045
01:41:00,492 --> 01:41:04,412
Speaker 17: in a therapeutic container where it was set, and setting

2046
01:41:04,572 --> 01:41:07,333
Speaker 17: was very important in tension, was very important.

2047
01:41:09,692 --> 01:41:14,492
Speaker 2: Have you ever been taken to hell by a hallucinogen? Jordan?

2048
01:41:16,093 --> 01:41:16,293
Speaker 19: Yeah?

2049
01:41:16,372 --> 01:41:16,732
Speaker 23: For sure?

2050
01:41:18,893 --> 01:41:22,652
Speaker 3: Was that detrimental in a long term way?

2051
01:41:23,253 --> 01:41:26,532
Speaker 2: Or was there some learnings to be made from a

2052
01:41:26,612 --> 01:41:27,772
Speaker 2: horrific experience like that?

2053
01:41:29,692 --> 01:41:34,173
Speaker 23: I think there was nothing but learnings really. I mean people,

2054
01:41:35,213 --> 01:41:37,812
Speaker 23: it's kind of a misnomer when people say like a

2055
01:41:37,893 --> 01:41:42,692
Speaker 23: bad trip, because there's something resistant or resistive inside the

2056
01:41:42,812 --> 01:41:47,612
Speaker 23: individual where you've been presented an opportunity to have some

2057
01:41:47,853 --> 01:41:53,532
Speaker 23: kind of truth or some insightful perspective about yourself, and

2058
01:41:53,732 --> 01:41:56,932
Speaker 23: even if you're sober, if you resist that, that's where

2059
01:41:57,013 --> 01:42:03,412
Speaker 23: the the negative effects kind of come in, because you're

2060
01:42:03,893 --> 01:42:09,213
Speaker 23: kind of suppressing or repressing or moving away from something

2061
01:42:09,293 --> 01:42:12,612
Speaker 23: that's quite active and quite alive, and you're saying, I

2062
01:42:12,692 --> 01:42:14,973
Speaker 23: don't want to deal with this right now, and it

2063
01:42:15,492 --> 01:42:18,692
Speaker 23: manifests in other ways. It's kind of like trying to

2064
01:42:18,772 --> 01:42:22,012
Speaker 23: fight the current. That's where the discomfort comes.

2065
01:42:21,893 --> 01:42:26,492
Speaker 3: In would you, Jordan, advocate for you know, like an

2066
01:42:26,492 --> 01:42:29,093
Speaker 3: Anstterdam situation or you think it should purely be if

2067
01:42:29,133 --> 01:42:32,013
Speaker 3: it's opened up, just therapy therapeutical use.

2068
01:42:33,213 --> 01:42:36,492
Speaker 23: I think given the current climate and what has been happening,

2069
01:42:37,293 --> 01:42:40,973
Speaker 23: probably the therapeutic use is a good stepping stone. Unfortunately,

2070
01:42:41,053 --> 01:42:45,732
Speaker 23: we're fighting at least what's like eighty odd years of

2071
01:42:48,013 --> 01:42:55,132
Speaker 23: demonization of certain of many drugs, and I think anything

2072
01:42:55,253 --> 01:42:58,932
Speaker 23: to do with if you think of the mind, if

2073
01:42:59,013 --> 01:43:02,652
Speaker 23: you think of any images or feelings that come to

2074
01:43:02,692 --> 01:43:07,093
Speaker 23: you when you say the word and set insanity like

2075
01:43:07,293 --> 01:43:11,933
Speaker 23: the connotation like we used to as society in some places.

2076
01:43:11,612 --> 01:43:11,973
Speaker 15: Still do.

2077
01:43:13,692 --> 01:43:17,173
Speaker 23: Ay not understand what was going on within the mind

2078
01:43:17,213 --> 01:43:21,692
Speaker 23: of an individual and be like essentially just lock them up,

2079
01:43:22,213 --> 01:43:26,213
Speaker 23: neglect them, remove them from society. So I think there's

2080
01:43:26,213 --> 01:43:31,333
Speaker 23: still a massive stigma around, especially if you've only ever

2081
01:43:31,412 --> 01:43:35,452
Speaker 23: seen representations in the media or heard stories you kind

2082
01:43:35,492 --> 01:43:40,893
Speaker 23: of might equate mushrooms or acid or a number of

2083
01:43:40,973 --> 01:43:45,452
Speaker 23: other things with that will turn someone and saying or

2084
01:43:45,492 --> 01:43:48,052
Speaker 23: that will have some negative effect.

2085
01:43:48,732 --> 01:43:51,133
Speaker 3: Jordan, thank you very much for your thoughts. Appreciate it.

2086
01:43:51,253 --> 01:43:53,253
Speaker 2: The sex is, why are you discussing drugs that could

2087
01:43:53,253 --> 01:43:55,933
Speaker 2: potentially encourage people to gether go. You must answer this

2088
01:43:56,053 --> 01:43:59,973
Speaker 2: text well, because there have been clinical trials that have

2089
01:44:00,293 --> 01:44:04,372
Speaker 2: come up with very impressive results in dealing with long

2090
01:44:04,492 --> 01:44:07,812
Speaker 2: term depression and depression that's been proved to be very

2091
01:44:07,853 --> 01:44:12,933
Speaker 2: difficult to treat, and so there are in fact opportunities

2092
01:44:12,973 --> 01:44:16,212
Speaker 2: for people to legally take psilocybern now the ACT agreement

2093
01:44:16,253 --> 01:44:19,013
Speaker 2: and magic mushrooms to try and treat their depression. So

2094
01:44:19,213 --> 01:44:20,772
Speaker 2: that is why we're talking about it.

2095
01:44:21,013 --> 01:44:23,612
Speaker 3: And this will this will make you lose your mind,

2096
01:44:23,692 --> 01:44:26,892
Speaker 3: dear texter. But a lot of people using magic mushrooms

2097
01:44:26,933 --> 01:44:29,053
Speaker 3: with or without the legality of it, so it has

2098
01:44:29,053 --> 01:44:31,532
Speaker 3: debbnit out there, so it's nice to put s a

2099
01:44:31,572 --> 01:44:33,412
Speaker 3: bit of a light on it and whether there is

2100
01:44:33,452 --> 01:44:35,173
Speaker 3: an option to, you know, make it a bit easier

2101
01:44:35,213 --> 01:44:37,932
Speaker 3: for people going through some mental health issues, whether that's

2102
01:44:37,933 --> 01:44:38,772
Speaker 3: an option legally.

2103
01:44:38,973 --> 01:44:42,732
Speaker 2: Psilocybum is a fast acting therapyist sister treatment that may

2104
01:44:42,853 --> 01:44:45,492
Speaker 2: help break out of depressive thinking. But of course it

2105
01:44:45,612 --> 01:44:49,452
Speaker 2: is still in its early, tightly controlled situation. At the moment,

2106
01:44:49,492 --> 01:44:52,253
Speaker 2: it is currently an A class drug, so that's why

2107
01:44:52,293 --> 01:44:52,893
Speaker 2: we're discussing it.

2108
01:44:53,013 --> 01:44:55,532
Speaker 3: Yeah, right, we will be back very shortly. Oh, e

2109
01:44:55,532 --> 01:44:57,452
Speaker 3: one hundred and eighty ten eighty is the number to call.

2110
01:44:57,532 --> 01:44:59,293
Speaker 3: It is seventeen to four.

2111
01:44:59,893 --> 01:45:03,012
Speaker 1: The big stories of big issues, to the big trends

2112
01:45:03,213 --> 01:45:06,973
Speaker 1: and everything in between. Matt Heath and Taylor Adam's Afternoons

2113
01:45:07,213 --> 01:45:13,532
Speaker 1: with Skoda go to Codes every Day has a four.

2114
01:45:13,772 --> 01:45:16,652
Speaker 2: Hello, great show. My husband has suffered severe depression throughout

2115
01:45:16,692 --> 01:45:19,972
Speaker 2: his life. He's been hospitalized due to this, tried every

2116
01:45:20,053 --> 01:45:23,453
Speaker 2: medication with no improvement. Controlled psilocybin use has been absolutely

2117
01:45:23,492 --> 01:45:26,093
Speaker 2: life changing. So pleased to have him back leading a

2118
01:45:26,133 --> 01:45:29,173
Speaker 2: happy life once more. Very pleased to hear that as well. Chris,

2119
01:45:29,893 --> 01:45:34,333
Speaker 2: welcome the show. Your thoughts about psilocybin and it's use

2120
01:45:34,492 --> 01:45:35,252
Speaker 2: it with depression.

2121
01:45:36,652 --> 01:45:39,093
Speaker 15: Well, firstly, I'd just like to come back to a

2122
01:45:39,532 --> 01:45:42,812
Speaker 15: conversation you had a few callers back where you just

2123
01:45:43,133 --> 01:45:47,892
Speaker 15: we spoke about tunan turn on and drop out.

2124
01:45:48,133 --> 01:45:50,492
Speaker 2: Oh yes, yes, there's a lot.

2125
01:45:50,412 --> 01:45:54,093
Speaker 15: Of misconception about what that actually means. Because tim Leary

2126
01:45:54,293 --> 01:45:58,333
Speaker 15: was like a spiritualist, So the tunan was to be

2127
01:45:59,173 --> 01:46:03,093
Speaker 15: reborn and become sensitive to the world around you and

2128
01:46:03,173 --> 01:46:06,972
Speaker 15: express you knew internal perspectives outwardly so that other people

2129
01:46:07,013 --> 01:46:11,252
Speaker 15: could understand you. The turn on was used the sex sacrament,

2130
01:46:11,412 --> 01:46:14,732
Speaker 15: and in his case it was specifically LSD to go

2131
01:46:15,173 --> 01:46:18,093
Speaker 15: out of your mind and find a connection to your

2132
01:46:18,893 --> 01:46:22,812
Speaker 15: inner self, which is the bits of you don't really

2133
01:46:24,692 --> 01:46:27,813
Speaker 15: have a conscious thought about their stored in your subconscious

2134
01:46:29,372 --> 01:46:34,893
Speaker 15: and then drop out wasn't drop out of society. It

2135
01:46:35,053 --> 01:46:38,532
Speaker 15: was drop out of the society's conventional way of thinking

2136
01:46:40,173 --> 01:46:42,813
Speaker 15: and realize what is most important.

2137
01:46:43,053 --> 01:46:44,253
Speaker 13: Really, well, the.

2138
01:46:44,293 --> 01:46:46,572
Speaker 2: Point I was trying to make Christmas. When you do that,

2139
01:46:47,013 --> 01:46:50,333
Speaker 2: then you don't become a cog in the You may

2140
01:46:50,412 --> 01:46:52,652
Speaker 2: not remain a cog in the economic machine.

2141
01:46:53,612 --> 01:46:55,652
Speaker 24: No, that is that good for you?

2142
01:46:55,853 --> 01:46:56,173
Speaker 19: Or is it?

2143
01:46:56,452 --> 01:46:56,852
Speaker 5: Well not?

2144
01:46:57,333 --> 01:46:59,372
Speaker 2: Yeah, well, I mean that's that was the question really

2145
01:46:59,572 --> 01:47:01,572
Speaker 2: I'm looking at And some people worry about that. Some

2146
01:47:01,652 --> 01:47:05,852
Speaker 2: people worry that if they take psychedelics, then you know,

2147
01:47:06,213 --> 01:47:09,293
Speaker 2: some people may may not want their mind expanded because

2148
01:47:09,652 --> 01:47:13,372
Speaker 2: you know, they want to keep you know, functioning such

2149
01:47:13,492 --> 01:47:16,093
Speaker 2: they can pay for their kids schooling or something, if

2150
01:47:16,093 --> 01:47:16,652
Speaker 2: you see what I mean.

2151
01:47:16,732 --> 01:47:20,452
Speaker 15: Chris, Yeah, that's that's what he said about dropping out

2152
01:47:20,612 --> 01:47:25,052
Speaker 15: was just attached from that external social drama. Don't don't

2153
01:47:25,093 --> 01:47:31,133
Speaker 15: worry about what society's expectations of you are and worry

2154
01:47:31,173 --> 01:47:33,132
Speaker 15: about what your expectations for yourself.

2155
01:47:33,452 --> 01:47:37,732
Speaker 2: Yeah, yes, So what do you think about declassification of

2156
01:47:38,293 --> 01:47:41,213
Speaker 2: of of psilocybin.

2157
01:47:41,933 --> 01:47:44,253
Speaker 15: Look, I think the whole misuse of drugs tech needs

2158
01:47:44,293 --> 01:47:48,173
Speaker 15: and overhaul the psychedelic drugs that I most enjoy every

2159
01:47:48,213 --> 01:47:54,772
Speaker 15: stage psilocybin VMT India may drugs at the very bottom

2160
01:47:54,853 --> 01:47:56,372
Speaker 15: of the ham drug harm scale.

2161
01:47:57,133 --> 01:47:59,652
Speaker 2: Mm hmmm, Yeah, I mean it does seem odd that

2162
01:47:59,692 --> 01:48:01,333
Speaker 2: it's in the same line.

2163
01:48:01,093 --> 01:48:06,092
Speaker 15: As calculated harm as people picking and eating the wrong mushroom.

2164
01:48:07,173 --> 01:48:09,492
Speaker 3: Yeah, I know that were be my thinking on this

2165
01:48:09,612 --> 01:48:12,213
Speaker 3: as if it's showing promising results and you can have

2166
01:48:12,333 --> 01:48:15,452
Speaker 3: it within a you know, a clinical environment and bring

2167
01:48:15,532 --> 01:48:16,973
Speaker 3: it out of the shadows, because people are going to

2168
01:48:17,013 --> 01:48:19,492
Speaker 3: do it anyway that they can read all this stuff

2169
01:48:19,492 --> 01:48:21,333
Speaker 3: on the internet about these trials and then go and

2170
01:48:21,372 --> 01:48:24,093
Speaker 3: find a mushroom and maybe, just maybe they picked the

2171
01:48:24,133 --> 01:48:26,293
Speaker 3: wrong one. So bringing it out into the open to

2172
01:48:26,372 --> 01:48:28,852
Speaker 3: have some legality and some professionalism around it, to me

2173
01:48:29,013 --> 01:48:29,692
Speaker 3: is not a bad idea.

2174
01:48:30,412 --> 01:48:32,612
Speaker 15: I suffer from chronic pain, so I can't get out

2175
01:48:32,612 --> 01:48:35,452
Speaker 15: foraging much. So at the start of the season, there's

2176
01:48:35,452 --> 01:48:38,612
Speaker 15: a place that's really close to the road that people

2177
01:48:38,692 --> 01:48:41,572
Speaker 15: don't hit tender early and I dive out there and

2178
01:48:42,013 --> 01:48:44,732
Speaker 15: just after ends day and I'll pick a collection up

2179
01:48:45,173 --> 01:48:46,932
Speaker 15: and do a trip myself.

2180
01:48:47,412 --> 01:48:49,812
Speaker 3: Good on you, Chris, like secret fishing spots, isn't it?

2181
01:48:50,333 --> 01:48:51,333
Speaker 2: Matt, Welcome to the show.

2182
01:48:53,133 --> 01:48:53,893
Speaker 24: Good, How are you on?

2183
01:48:54,173 --> 01:48:54,532
Speaker 3: Very good?

2184
01:48:56,213 --> 01:49:01,253
Speaker 24: I've been talked to me quick, so I guess I've

2185
01:49:01,333 --> 01:49:04,932
Speaker 24: been sort of drug free now for over ten years.

2186
01:49:04,973 --> 01:49:07,012
Speaker 24: I come from it a sit of an addictive background.

2187
01:49:07,013 --> 01:49:11,213
Speaker 24: I've been into rehead swipe. The last time I took mushrooms,

2188
01:49:11,692 --> 01:49:14,532
Speaker 24: I was coming off a pretty bad relationship and mate

2189
01:49:14,532 --> 01:49:17,252
Speaker 24: turned up with a big shopping bag full of mushrooms

2190
01:49:17,293 --> 01:49:19,893
Speaker 24: and it was all on. It was one of the

2191
01:49:19,973 --> 01:49:25,013
Speaker 24: worst experiences I've ever had. And I think where I'm coming.

2192
01:49:25,093 --> 01:49:28,652
Speaker 24: Where I'm going with this is that we talked about regulation,

2193
01:49:28,893 --> 01:49:31,692
Speaker 24: and I kind of agree with the regulation side of it,

2194
01:49:31,772 --> 01:49:35,732
Speaker 24: but from an addictive personality. I'm forty nine years old

2195
01:49:35,893 --> 01:49:39,892
Speaker 24: and I had to check myself every day to make

2196
01:49:39,973 --> 01:49:42,892
Speaker 24: sure I don't slap. I've got a great wife who

2197
01:49:43,013 --> 01:49:45,892
Speaker 24: keeps me in check, and if it was for hair,

2198
01:49:46,412 --> 01:49:47,893
Speaker 24: I don't know where i'd be. And I've got a

2199
01:49:47,933 --> 01:49:54,813
Speaker 24: good family. Now, the addictive side of things with regulation,

2200
01:49:56,093 --> 01:50:00,492
Speaker 24: it's just too easy and a good example. I'll give

2201
01:50:00,492 --> 01:50:03,812
Speaker 24: you an example. I went to Matt rife concept a

2202
01:50:03,853 --> 01:50:05,852
Speaker 24: couple of months ago and he stood up on stage

2203
01:50:05,853 --> 01:50:09,492
Speaker 24: and he asked everybody in the as marijuana legal in

2204
01:50:09,692 --> 01:50:13,692
Speaker 24: New Zealand, and everybody said no. But if you're smart enough,

2205
01:50:13,812 --> 01:50:15,692
Speaker 24: you know, you can go online and you can get

2206
01:50:15,732 --> 01:50:19,492
Speaker 24: a prescription for it and have it on Korea within

2207
01:50:19,572 --> 01:50:22,972
Speaker 24: you within a couple of days. So in reality it's

2208
01:50:23,053 --> 01:50:29,173
Speaker 24: accessible to anybody. So regulation, yeah, or for it, but

2209
01:50:30,572 --> 01:50:32,612
Speaker 24: not the way things are being regulated at the moment.

2210
01:50:32,692 --> 01:50:38,732
Speaker 24: It's too easy for an addictive personality to obtain stuff

2211
01:50:38,893 --> 01:50:43,652
Speaker 24: like this. And yeah, I mean I've been like I said,

2212
01:50:43,732 --> 01:50:48,293
Speaker 24: I've been cleaned for ten years and got a great job.

2213
01:50:49,333 --> 01:50:51,372
Speaker 24: It was never used to be like that. I had

2214
01:50:51,412 --> 01:50:53,213
Speaker 24: to move out of the city I was living in.

2215
01:50:53,772 --> 01:50:55,692
Speaker 2: Yeah, thank you so much. You call Matt, But we're

2216
01:50:55,732 --> 01:50:58,053
Speaker 2: running out out of time. I mean. The interesting thing

2217
01:50:58,093 --> 01:51:03,452
Speaker 2: about psilocybin is addiction isn't a big part of it.

2218
01:51:03,933 --> 01:51:06,652
Speaker 2: And in these clinical trials it's only one or two

2219
01:51:06,772 --> 01:51:11,573
Speaker 2: sessions that they suggest, and it's therapy with two clinicians

2220
01:51:11,612 --> 01:51:15,213
Speaker 2: and the ruins is how they do it, and six

2221
01:51:15,412 --> 01:51:18,013
Speaker 2: six to eight hour sessions and you know they have

2222
01:51:18,532 --> 01:51:22,213
Speaker 2: great results, and you know, a couple of guided sessions

2223
01:51:22,253 --> 01:51:25,452
Speaker 2: instead of years on antidepressants. Who knows?

2224
01:51:25,532 --> 01:51:28,013
Speaker 3: Seems pretty safe to me? Right, beg very shortly. It

2225
01:51:28,133 --> 01:51:29,093
Speaker 3: is eight minutes to four.

2226
01:51:30,013 --> 01:51:33,372
Speaker 1: The big stories, the big issues, the big trends and

2227
01:51:33,732 --> 01:51:38,133
Speaker 1: everything in between. Matt Heath and Taylor Adams Afternoons used Dogs.

2228
01:51:38,053 --> 01:51:40,972
Speaker 3: B News Talks B it is five to four.

2229
01:51:41,213 --> 01:51:44,253
Speaker 2: Well, what a huge topic. We didn't even scratch the surface.

2230
01:51:44,973 --> 01:51:47,733
Speaker 2: But if you want to go deeper into this discussion

2231
01:51:47,853 --> 01:51:52,013
Speaker 2: on magic, mushroom, psilocybin and depression, I recommend the fantastic

2232
01:51:52,093 --> 01:51:56,412
Speaker 2: book How to Change Your Mind by Michael Palin. It's

2233
01:51:56,452 --> 01:52:00,692
Speaker 2: a very very interesting book. This Texas is interesting question.

2234
01:52:00,853 --> 01:52:02,532
Speaker 2: I'm not sure of the answer. Good to hear that

2235
01:52:02,692 --> 01:52:05,532
Speaker 2: these things can help depression. I wonder how often drugs

2236
01:52:05,532 --> 01:52:09,213
Speaker 2: are the cause of depression versus the Yeah, I think

2237
01:52:09,213 --> 01:52:12,452
Speaker 2: there's lot of a lot of truth in that. This

2238
01:52:12,652 --> 01:52:15,732
Speaker 2: Texas says, do they have ways to help you if

2239
01:52:15,772 --> 01:52:18,972
Speaker 2: you start having a bad trip and it starts going harsh? Yes,

2240
01:52:19,093 --> 01:52:21,253
Speaker 2: that was that's the idea of the therapy, right yep,

2241
01:52:21,732 --> 01:52:23,973
Speaker 2: so so many techs, so many calls, Thank you, so

2242
01:52:24,053 --> 01:52:25,572
Speaker 2: much for the discussion, but as I say, I don't

2243
01:52:25,612 --> 01:52:27,053
Speaker 2: think we really got anywhere near it.

2244
01:52:27,213 --> 01:52:29,293
Speaker 3: Yep, we have to bring it back another day because

2245
01:52:29,333 --> 01:52:30,492
Speaker 3: so many people wanted to jet.

2246
01:52:30,652 --> 01:52:30,812
Speaker 19: Yeah.

2247
01:52:30,893 --> 01:52:32,452
Speaker 2: But that brings us to the end of the show.

2248
01:52:32,572 --> 01:52:37,412
Speaker 2: Thank you so much for listening. What a great bunch

2249
01:52:37,452 --> 01:52:39,812
Speaker 2: of calls the great and powerful here the duplay. Ellen

2250
01:52:39,933 --> 01:52:41,933
Speaker 2: is up next and she's talking to the CEO of

2251
01:52:43,173 --> 01:52:46,293
Speaker 2: nory Nor disc the company that founded the miracle weight

2252
01:52:46,372 --> 01:52:49,812
Speaker 2: loss in Hollywood starlet Face shrinking drug or Zimpic. But

2253
01:52:49,973 --> 01:52:54,253
Speaker 2: right now, Tyler, why would I be playing this absolute

2254
01:52:54,372 --> 01:52:55,612
Speaker 2: banger by the Beatles.

2255
01:52:57,893 --> 01:53:00,852
Speaker 3: So it's called Tomorrow never knows. Yeah, surely it's got

2256
01:53:00,893 --> 01:53:06,213
Speaker 3: to be about the psilocybin chat. No, No, it's not

2257
01:53:07,253 --> 01:53:08,892
Speaker 3: about This was about Bok transport.

2258
01:53:08,973 --> 01:53:12,093
Speaker 2: This was the one of our public transport fit so well,

2259
01:53:12,612 --> 01:53:16,692
Speaker 2: so well tomorrow and even knows all right. As I said,

2260
01:53:16,692 --> 01:53:19,612
Speaker 2: thank you for listening. See you tomorrow afternoon. We're back

2261
01:53:19,732 --> 01:53:22,333
Speaker 2: live from midday until then. Give me a taste a

2262
01:53:22,372 --> 01:53:22,973
Speaker 2: kiwi from us.

2263
01:53:44,452 --> 01:53:47,013
Speaker 1: For more from News Talks at b Listen live on

2264
01:53:47,173 --> 01:53:50,092
Speaker 1: air or online, and keep our shows with you wherever

2265
01:53:50,213 --> 01:53:52,733
Speaker 1: you go with our podcasts on iHeartRadio,