1 00:00:00,280 --> 00:00:03,400 Speaker 1: Now the Prime Minister is refusing to criticize new prosecution 2 00:00:03,520 --> 00:00:07,560 Speaker 1: guidelines by the Solicitor General. The new guidelines told prosecutors 3 00:00:07,560 --> 00:00:11,480 Speaker 1: to quote think carefully about particular decisions where a person 4 00:00:11,520 --> 00:00:14,440 Speaker 1: is Mary. The Solicitor General says she wanted to address 5 00:00:14,440 --> 00:00:17,240 Speaker 1: the disproportionate impact of the criminal justice system on Mary, 6 00:00:17,320 --> 00:00:20,919 Speaker 1: who are overrepresented as both victims and defendants. Chris Luxmo 7 00:00:21,040 --> 00:00:22,440 Speaker 1: was cautious about criticizing it. 8 00:00:23,040 --> 00:00:26,880 Speaker 2: Prosecution decisions should be colorblind, but also the prosecution guidelines 9 00:00:27,040 --> 00:00:31,080 Speaker 2: are independently issued by the Solicitor General. They are someone 10 00:00:31,200 --> 00:00:32,919 Speaker 2: you know and I really can't get You should ask 11 00:00:32,960 --> 00:00:34,920 Speaker 2: her about I mean, I can't really get into it 12 00:00:34,920 --> 00:00:38,159 Speaker 2: because I've got to respect the other elements of our democracy, 13 00:00:38,159 --> 00:00:39,360 Speaker 2: the judiciary. 14 00:00:39,560 --> 00:00:43,280 Speaker 1: As part of Leader David Seymour's with me. Now, Hey David, Hey, Ever, 15 00:00:43,479 --> 00:00:47,120 Speaker 1: when you hear the prosecutors being told to think carefully 16 00:00:47,120 --> 00:00:49,600 Speaker 1: about particular decisions where a person is Mary, what do 17 00:00:49,640 --> 00:00:50,320 Speaker 1: you think that means? 18 00:00:51,920 --> 00:00:56,520 Speaker 3: It's disgraceful. We bore racism. If New Zealand is based 19 00:00:56,560 --> 00:00:59,840 Speaker 3: on anything, it's the simple idea that no matter who 20 00:00:59,880 --> 00:01:03,320 Speaker 3: you are and how you're born, you get equal rights 21 00:01:03,360 --> 00:01:06,800 Speaker 3: and a fair shot at life. It is absolutely un 22 00:01:06,920 --> 00:01:10,240 Speaker 3: key we and there's no way that you can apply 23 00:01:10,400 --> 00:01:16,640 Speaker 3: it without applying in an individual case different treatment based 24 00:01:16,680 --> 00:01:21,080 Speaker 3: on race. So Chris Luxon is absolutely right the independent 25 00:01:21,240 --> 00:01:25,039 Speaker 3: and it's ultimately the Attorney General who's in charge. I've 26 00:01:25,360 --> 00:01:30,120 Speaker 3: raised this through staff with Judith's office and been told 27 00:01:30,160 --> 00:01:33,399 Speaker 3: that she's all over it. So we'll let the proper 28 00:01:33,440 --> 00:01:38,240 Speaker 3: process go through. But also let's be completely clear that 29 00:01:38,319 --> 00:01:41,240 Speaker 3: this is a government which has issued a circular from 30 00:01:41,319 --> 00:01:44,800 Speaker 3: Cabinet the highest edit. There really isn't a government. We 31 00:01:44,840 --> 00:01:47,720 Speaker 3: do public services based on needs not race, and we 32 00:01:47,840 --> 00:01:50,120 Speaker 3: expect everyone in the government to follow that. 33 00:01:50,920 --> 00:01:52,720 Speaker 1: What can Judas Colins do about it? 34 00:01:55,080 --> 00:01:59,800 Speaker 3: Well, ultimately she's responsible, along with Cabinet for the appointment 35 00:02:00,640 --> 00:02:04,560 Speaker 3: of the Solicitor General. I would think that at the 36 00:02:04,680 --> 00:02:10,600 Speaker 3: very least should be asking how has the Cabinet circular 37 00:02:10,680 --> 00:02:16,520 Speaker 3: on need not race been incorporated into this prosecutorial guideline 38 00:02:17,000 --> 00:02:21,040 Speaker 3: and perhaps how does it comport with a few other 39 00:02:21,080 --> 00:02:24,000 Speaker 3: important things such as the Bill of Rights which says 40 00:02:24,000 --> 00:02:27,520 Speaker 3: it can't be discriminated against. So you know, there's a 41 00:02:27,720 --> 00:02:31,400 Speaker 3: there's a few questions, and to be honest, you know, 42 00:02:31,480 --> 00:02:34,400 Speaker 3: if you know Judith Collins, it's probably not a meeting 43 00:02:34,440 --> 00:02:34,920 Speaker 3: i'd want to be. 44 00:02:34,919 --> 00:02:40,160 Speaker 1: In as the Solicitor General's position independent in the same 45 00:02:40,200 --> 00:02:42,720 Speaker 1: way that the judiciary is independent. 46 00:02:44,080 --> 00:02:46,040 Speaker 3: Well, I'll put it this way. If it comes down 47 00:02:46,080 --> 00:02:49,640 Speaker 3: to a particular prosecution, I would be the first to 48 00:02:49,720 --> 00:02:52,680 Speaker 3: screen blue murder about a politician trying to get involved 49 00:02:52,680 --> 00:02:56,680 Speaker 3: in whether a person should be prosecuted. However, when it 50 00:02:56,760 --> 00:03:00,480 Speaker 3: comes to underlying principles, what did the people of New 51 00:03:00,560 --> 00:03:03,799 Speaker 3: Zealand vote for? They voted for a government that would 52 00:03:03,880 --> 00:03:11,320 Speaker 3: stop the increasing embedment, embedding of a culture where racial 53 00:03:11,360 --> 00:03:15,680 Speaker 3: discrimination is seen as not only acceptable, but perhaps desirable. 54 00:03:16,040 --> 00:03:20,520 Speaker 3: People voted to eradicate that attitude from our government. I 55 00:03:20,560 --> 00:03:24,360 Speaker 3: think recent events have shown it's quite deeply embedded, and 56 00:03:24,440 --> 00:03:25,959 Speaker 3: we're here to unembedded. 57 00:03:26,400 --> 00:03:29,480 Speaker 1: I'm just trying to understand just how independent this position is, 58 00:03:29,480 --> 00:03:32,240 Speaker 1: because I mean, I understand that your judiciary is independent 59 00:03:32,240 --> 00:03:34,400 Speaker 1: when they're sitting on the bench and they make their decisions. 60 00:03:34,760 --> 00:03:37,040 Speaker 1: You guys can't. You guys can't climb in on that. 61 00:03:37,360 --> 00:03:40,480 Speaker 1: But is it the same with the Solicitor general's edits 62 00:03:40,600 --> 00:03:43,280 Speaker 1: like this, Well, again, I. 63 00:03:44,080 --> 00:03:46,440 Speaker 3: Would leave that up to Judith in the way that 64 00:03:46,480 --> 00:03:50,440 Speaker 3: she'd like to operate. Ultimately, the Solicitor generals, the head 65 00:03:50,440 --> 00:03:54,360 Speaker 3: of Crown Law, who are the government's lawyers, there to 66 00:03:54,560 --> 00:03:58,440 Speaker 3: serve the government. And I'm sure Judith. 67 00:03:58,520 --> 00:04:01,320 Speaker 1: So not the same level of independence then, David. 68 00:04:02,360 --> 00:04:05,960 Speaker 3: Well, I have thought that the judiciary are a branch 69 00:04:06,000 --> 00:04:09,720 Speaker 3: of government along with the legislative branch, which is the Parliament. 70 00:04:10,440 --> 00:04:12,960 Speaker 3: Crown Law is part of the executive which is us 71 00:04:13,200 --> 00:04:15,360 Speaker 3: those ministers and Cabinet, and the BHA, which is to 72 00:04:15,400 --> 00:04:18,000 Speaker 3: say there, which is to say, the Ministry of Education. 73 00:04:18,120 --> 00:04:20,160 Speaker 1: The Prime Minister freaking out this morning and saying, oh, 74 00:04:20,200 --> 00:04:22,440 Speaker 1: I can't do anything about it. He's actually wrong because 75 00:04:22,520 --> 00:04:25,880 Speaker 1: actually the age Dudith Colins can do something about this. 76 00:04:27,440 --> 00:04:30,400 Speaker 3: Well, I suspect it's a little bit like something that 77 00:04:30,440 --> 00:04:34,680 Speaker 3: comes up frequently around the Reserve Bank. Very important to 78 00:04:34,720 --> 00:04:37,440 Speaker 3: respect the independence of the Reserve Bank and their monetary 79 00:04:37,440 --> 00:04:42,320 Speaker 3: policy decisions. But it's also true that ultimately we appoint 80 00:04:42,400 --> 00:04:45,960 Speaker 3: the board, we ultimately appoint the governor, and we set 81 00:04:46,000 --> 00:04:49,200 Speaker 3: the rules for them, so you can respect the autonomy 82 00:04:49,200 --> 00:04:52,040 Speaker 3: and independence of an organization, which I suspect is what 83 00:04:52,680 --> 00:04:56,600 Speaker 3: Chris was getting asked. But also be really clear that 84 00:04:57,000 --> 00:05:02,120 Speaker 3: if people come to the belief a government doesn't actually 85 00:05:02,120 --> 00:05:04,960 Speaker 3: make any difference because there's a whole lot of unelected 86 00:05:05,000 --> 00:05:08,359 Speaker 3: people that will just do whatever they want no matter 87 00:05:08,400 --> 00:05:10,920 Speaker 3: how you vote or who you vote for. That's when 88 00:05:10,960 --> 00:05:13,880 Speaker 3: you get a real breakdown of trust and democracy. So 89 00:05:14,040 --> 00:05:17,719 Speaker 3: while obviously there's some complexity and the way that these 90 00:05:18,600 --> 00:05:23,600 Speaker 3: officers and officers operate, these are the elected politicians. At 91 00:05:23,600 --> 00:05:25,680 Speaker 3: the end of the day, you're in charge. You vote 92 00:05:25,680 --> 00:05:27,680 Speaker 3: for the government, and the government has to set the 93 00:05:27,760 --> 00:05:30,480 Speaker 3: tone and make the calls, which I and Judith Collins 94 00:05:30,560 --> 00:05:31,719 Speaker 3: is going to do on her return. 95 00:05:32,120 --> 00:05:34,200 Speaker 1: Good luck with dealing with us a lot, David appreciated. 96 00:05:34,279 --> 00:05:36,320 Speaker 1: David Symour, leader of the AX Party. Jesus must get 97 00:05:36,320 --> 00:05:38,800 Speaker 1: frustrating dealing with these public servants. It sounds like owner's 98 00:05:38,880 --> 00:05:40,160 Speaker 1: job is on the line, by the way, if she 99 00:05:40,200 --> 00:05:44,000 Speaker 1: doesn't tow the line. For more from Hither Duplessy Allen Drive, 100 00:05:44,160 --> 00:05:47,560 Speaker 1: listen live to news Talks it'd be from four pm weekdays, 101 00:05:47,680 --> 00:05:49,880 Speaker 1: or follow the podcast on iHeartRadio.