1
00:00:09,133 --> 00:00:11,973
Speaker 1: You're listening to a podcast from news talks it B.

2
00:00:12,413 --> 00:00:16,373
Speaker 1: Follow this and our wide range of podcasts now on iHeartRadio.

3
00:00:16,733 --> 00:00:19,733
Speaker 1: It's time for all the attitude, all the opinion, all

4
00:00:19,773 --> 00:00:25,293
Speaker 1: the information, all the debates off now the Leighton Smith

5
00:00:25,413 --> 00:00:27,653
Speaker 1: Podcast powered by news talks it B.

6
00:00:27,973 --> 00:00:31,173
Speaker 2: Welcome to podcast two hundred and sixty eight four December four,

7
00:00:31,253 --> 00:00:35,133
Speaker 2: twenty twenty four. Nick Cator who has made numerous podcast

8
00:00:35,173 --> 00:00:38,693
Speaker 2: appearances over the last six years, and there were discussions

9
00:00:38,733 --> 00:00:41,213
Speaker 2: we had on radio starting in twenty thirteen through to

10
00:00:41,253 --> 00:00:44,813
Speaker 2: the end of twenty eighteen. Nick is a journalist and writer,

11
00:00:45,093 --> 00:00:49,333
Speaker 2: essentially an analyst and commentator. He's a mixture of all.

12
00:00:49,533 --> 00:00:53,013
Speaker 2: His life has undergone some restructuring in twenty twenty four.

13
00:00:53,493 --> 00:00:56,173
Speaker 2: I've seen him on Sky News all around Australia. I've

14
00:00:56,213 --> 00:01:00,773
Speaker 2: seen him on Sky News from Romania, from London and

15
00:01:01,133 --> 00:01:04,333
Speaker 2: some other places that I failed to remember. Now to

16
00:01:04,413 --> 00:01:07,253
Speaker 2: include him before the end of twenty four we had

17
00:01:07,293 --> 00:01:10,013
Speaker 2: to pick a time and date that suited us both.

18
00:01:10,693 --> 00:01:13,453
Speaker 2: So a few days ago, on the eve of Thanksgiving,

19
00:01:14,013 --> 00:01:17,933
Speaker 2: we connected in New York and the idea from my

20
00:01:18,013 --> 00:01:21,613
Speaker 2: perspective was to target Australia from different perspectives. With the

21
00:01:21,693 --> 00:01:26,133
Speaker 2: underlying intent on information for would be migrants or immigrants

22
00:01:26,613 --> 00:01:31,293
Speaker 2: from this country. So the discussion ranged through problems facing Australia,

23
00:01:31,453 --> 00:01:37,013
Speaker 2: power supply being maybe the most important, which meant including

24
00:01:37,093 --> 00:01:43,493
Speaker 2: nuclear power, politics obviously, education, housing, race relations, anti Semitism,

25
00:01:43,893 --> 00:01:48,893
Speaker 2: health and hospital care, and that gets even more discussion

26
00:01:49,253 --> 00:01:53,933
Speaker 2: after the interview, the ten most dangerous cities and other matters,

27
00:01:54,253 --> 00:01:57,413
Speaker 2: and finally we've finished up with well having a bit

28
00:01:57,413 --> 00:02:01,053
Speaker 2: of fun expense of the media. As usual, it was

29
00:02:01,093 --> 00:02:05,813
Speaker 2: a relaxed and interesting conversation. But first years ago I

30
00:02:05,893 --> 00:02:08,733
Speaker 2: tagged Aukland Transport as the best example New Zealand has

31
00:02:08,813 --> 00:02:12,413
Speaker 2: of the administrative state, and it proved to be a

32
00:02:12,453 --> 00:02:18,213
Speaker 2: correct description. The term administrative state to me means essentially

33
00:02:18,293 --> 00:02:23,973
Speaker 2: unelected bureaucrats making the rules rather than elected representatives of

34
00:02:24,253 --> 00:02:28,733
Speaker 2: the people. So in New Zealand that means our single

35
00:02:28,853 --> 00:02:33,173
Speaker 2: chamber of Parliament and local councils, members of which can

36
00:02:33,213 --> 00:02:36,933
Speaker 2: be held accountable by the voting public. Now, in one

37
00:02:36,933 --> 00:02:40,653
Speaker 2: of those coincidences that I thrive on, I can provide

38
00:02:40,653 --> 00:02:44,893
Speaker 2: an even better definition of the administrative state. Roger Kimball

39
00:02:45,013 --> 00:02:49,173
Speaker 2: is a thinker and writer who I admire yesterday I

40
00:02:49,253 --> 00:02:51,893
Speaker 2: read an article that he wrote a couple of days ago,

41
00:02:52,213 --> 00:02:56,773
Speaker 2: and it was called what is the administrative State? And

42
00:02:56,853 --> 00:02:59,973
Speaker 2: here is part of what he wrote. The administrative state

43
00:03:00,333 --> 00:03:03,733
Speaker 2: is that quota of political power that covertly fills the

44
00:03:03,813 --> 00:03:07,773
Speaker 2: vacuum left and this is very important, left by the

45
00:03:07,933 --> 00:03:12,733
Speaker 2: failure of the legislative branch to discharge its obligations. Two

46
00:03:12,773 --> 00:03:16,533
Speaker 2: things are critical. One is the displacement of sovereignty. No

47
00:03:16,613 --> 00:03:20,373
Speaker 2: longer are the people sovereign. The bureaucracy is. The second

48
00:03:20,493 --> 00:03:24,293
Speaker 2: critical thing is the covert nature of the enterprise. The

49
00:03:24,373 --> 00:03:27,933
Speaker 2: question what is the administrative state can seem difficult to

50
00:03:28,013 --> 00:03:30,613
Speaker 2: answer because it's not supposed to exist in the first place.

51
00:03:31,053 --> 00:03:33,333
Speaker 2: You know it only by its actions. You can't look

52
00:03:33,373 --> 00:03:35,933
Speaker 2: it up in the statute book, much less in the Constitution.

53
00:03:36,373 --> 00:03:40,493
Speaker 2: The very fact of the administrative state violates any number

54
00:03:40,493 --> 00:03:44,053
Speaker 2: of constitutional norms, not least its being a sort of

55
00:03:44,333 --> 00:03:49,173
Speaker 2: fourth branch of government when the Constitution provides for only three. Well,

56
00:03:49,213 --> 00:03:53,493
Speaker 2: that is restricted more to them and not so inclusive

57
00:03:53,493 --> 00:03:58,213
Speaker 2: of us. However, the points are still relevant. The shadowy

58
00:03:58,293 --> 00:04:01,053
Speaker 2: nature of the administrative state helps to explain why it

59
00:04:01,133 --> 00:04:05,853
Speaker 2: is so hostile to free speech and by the same token,

60
00:04:06,013 --> 00:04:09,053
Speaker 2: why it tends to be receptive to the deployment of

61
00:04:09,093 --> 00:04:13,173
Speaker 2: censorship and police power to achieve its ends and stymy

62
00:04:13,213 --> 00:04:16,053
Speaker 2: the ends of its critics. That's why the rise of

63
00:04:16,053 --> 00:04:18,573
Speaker 2: the administrative state goes hand in hand with the loss

64
00:04:18,573 --> 00:04:23,773
Speaker 2: of public confidence in society's guiding institutions. Talk of democracy

65
00:04:24,293 --> 00:04:29,093
Speaker 2: is ever on their lips. Swat teams, prosecutor abuse and

66
00:04:29,253 --> 00:04:32,253
Speaker 2: lawfare are out on the street for all to see.

67
00:04:32,413 --> 00:04:35,453
Speaker 2: The bottom line, the age of the administrative state is,

68
00:04:35,533 --> 00:04:39,133
Speaker 2: at the same time an age of declining legitimacy in

69
00:04:39,213 --> 00:04:43,573
Speaker 2: the foundational institutions of civil society. That last sentence is

70
00:04:43,613 --> 00:04:47,813
Speaker 2: applicable here as as well as anywhere. Little further on,

71
00:04:47,893 --> 00:04:50,293
Speaker 2: he says, I have not yet answered the question posed

72
00:04:50,293 --> 00:04:54,693
Speaker 2: in my title, what is the administrative state? A friend

73
00:04:54,733 --> 00:04:57,853
Speaker 2: asked me that in the course of our conversation about

74
00:04:57,853 --> 00:05:02,493
Speaker 2: my column last week. He said, isn't it possible that

75
00:05:02,533 --> 00:05:06,493
Speaker 2: the administrative state, like its scarier sounding cousin deep state,

76
00:05:06,933 --> 00:05:11,253
Speaker 2: is just a polysyllabic synonym for state for the complex

77
00:05:11,293 --> 00:05:17,413
Speaker 2: activities of government in a complex, technologically advanced polity. Maybe

78
00:05:17,453 --> 00:05:19,973
Speaker 2: the administrative state is just an invention of right wing

79
00:05:20,093 --> 00:05:25,013
Speaker 2: conspiracy theorists who find goblins where there are only harmless bureaucrats. Now,

80
00:05:25,093 --> 00:05:27,613
Speaker 2: Roger Kimball's response to that was, well, it can be

81
00:05:27,653 --> 00:05:31,173
Speaker 2: reduced to this conspiracy theorist. And that's a phrase that

82
00:05:31,293 --> 00:05:33,933
Speaker 2: is wheeled out when the aim is to end, not

83
00:05:34,093 --> 00:05:39,293
Speaker 2: further the conversation. The problem is not conspiracy theories, but

84
00:05:39,493 --> 00:05:43,493
Speaker 2: conspiracies in fact. It's a line we should all remember

85
00:05:43,613 --> 00:05:48,413
Speaker 2: because we can use it probably frequently. The problem is

86
00:05:48,453 --> 00:05:55,933
Speaker 2: not conspiracy theories, but conspiracies in fact. Now, in case

87
00:05:55,933 --> 00:06:02,533
Speaker 2: you're wondering why this, here's the answer. Yesterday, Auckland Transport

88
00:06:02,613 --> 00:06:07,213
Speaker 2: will be surgically changed to restore democratic control for transport

89
00:06:07,213 --> 00:06:10,853
Speaker 2: issues in Auckland, according to the Transport Minister Simeon Brown.

90
00:06:11,893 --> 00:06:14,533
Speaker 2: He and the Auckland Mayor Wayne Brown declared that they

91
00:06:14,533 --> 00:06:18,853
Speaker 2: were taking back control of Auckland Transport by stripping the

92
00:06:19,093 --> 00:06:24,013
Speaker 2: unpopular council body of its policy, strategy and planning functions

93
00:06:24,333 --> 00:06:27,573
Speaker 2: and moving them to the Auckland Council. Wayne Brown said

94
00:06:27,613 --> 00:06:30,613
Speaker 2: having at focused on running the buses, trains and ferries

95
00:06:31,013 --> 00:06:33,653
Speaker 2: is what they should be doing, declaring it to be

96
00:06:33,853 --> 00:06:37,493
Speaker 2: a very good result. Simeon Brown said the existing transport

97
00:06:37,533 --> 00:06:41,573
Speaker 2: governance model in Auckland is falling short of meeting under statement,

98
00:06:41,893 --> 00:06:45,373
Speaker 2: short of meeting the expectations of the government, Auckland Council

99
00:06:45,413 --> 00:06:50,613
Speaker 2: and most importantly, Auckland is themselves. By returning decision making

100
00:06:50,653 --> 00:06:54,653
Speaker 2: power to elected representatives, we are enabling Aucklanders to directly

101
00:06:54,773 --> 00:06:59,173
Speaker 2: influence the transport policies that affect their daily lives. That

102
00:06:59,373 --> 00:07:04,013
Speaker 2: is true in how should we say principle, All we

103
00:07:04,133 --> 00:07:08,013
Speaker 2: have to do is get off our butts and make

104
00:07:08,053 --> 00:07:10,373
Speaker 2: sure that we're heard. And I know a lot of

105
00:07:10,373 --> 00:07:14,493
Speaker 2: people up till relatively recently attempted to do that and

106
00:07:14,653 --> 00:07:18,093
Speaker 2: basically got nowhere. And I've mentioned stories in the past

107
00:07:18,373 --> 00:07:21,413
Speaker 2: of people who've told me of presentations they made to

108
00:07:21,653 --> 00:07:26,613
Speaker 2: at at public meetings only to get dumped on. Now

109
00:07:26,653 --> 00:07:29,933
Speaker 2: after the mail room, I've connected a couple of different issues,

110
00:07:30,133 --> 00:07:35,213
Speaker 2: three in fact, but connected issues remedical, nursing and health,

111
00:07:35,893 --> 00:07:39,093
Speaker 2: and I recommend that you don't miss them now in

112
00:07:39,133 --> 00:07:51,493
Speaker 2: a moment. Nick cater Leverx is an antihistamine made in

113
00:07:51,573 --> 00:07:55,573
Speaker 2: Switzerland to the highest quality. Leverix relieves hay fever and

114
00:07:55,653 --> 00:08:00,453
Speaker 2: skin allergies or itchy skin. It's a dual action antihistamine

115
00:08:00,533 --> 00:08:05,493
Speaker 2: and has a unique nasal decongestant action. It's fast acting

116
00:08:05,733 --> 00:08:08,773
Speaker 2: for fast relief and it works in under an hour

117
00:08:08,893 --> 00:08:12,413
Speaker 2: and lasts for over twenty four hours. Leverix is a

118
00:08:12,453 --> 00:08:16,213
Speaker 2: tiny tablet that unblocks the nose, deals with itchy eyes,

119
00:08:16,453 --> 00:08:20,853
Speaker 2: and stops sneezing. Leveris is an antihistamine made in Switzerland

120
00:08:20,973 --> 00:08:23,773
Speaker 2: to the highest quality. So next time you're in need

121
00:08:23,773 --> 00:08:27,773
Speaker 2: of an effective antihistamine, call into the pharmacy and ask

122
00:08:27,893 --> 00:08:33,253
Speaker 2: for Leverix l e v Rix Leverix and always read

123
00:08:33,293 --> 00:08:36,973
Speaker 2: the label. Takes directed and if symptoms persist, see your

124
00:08:37,013 --> 00:08:48,653
Speaker 2: health professional. Farmer broker Auckland Layton Smith Nick Cata has

125
00:08:48,693 --> 00:08:52,173
Speaker 2: been on the podcast on numerous occasions over the years.

126
00:08:52,173 --> 00:08:53,893
Speaker 2: He is a very good friend of the podcast and

127
00:08:53,933 --> 00:08:56,853
Speaker 2: a good friend of mine. And it's great to welcome

128
00:08:56,853 --> 00:09:00,053
Speaker 2: you back because we have not spoken this year and

129
00:09:00,453 --> 00:09:02,613
Speaker 2: it was time to rectify it. And here we are

130
00:09:02,733 --> 00:09:05,733
Speaker 2: talking to you via your phone, which of course some

131
00:09:05,933 --> 00:09:09,333
Speaker 2: is locked into Sydney and you're in New York. What

132
00:09:09,373 --> 00:09:10,173
Speaker 2: are you doing there?

133
00:09:11,493 --> 00:09:14,653
Speaker 3: I'm here for conference by the International Democratic Union, which

134
00:09:14,693 --> 00:09:19,973
Speaker 3: is an organization of conservative parties from around the world,

135
00:09:20,173 --> 00:09:22,853
Speaker 3: including the National Party in New Zealand to get together

136
00:09:22,893 --> 00:09:27,933
Speaker 3: and discuss conservatism and how to win these battles. So

137
00:09:27,973 --> 00:09:29,813
Speaker 3: that's what I'm here for mainly, and also to visit

138
00:09:29,853 --> 00:09:34,213
Speaker 3: a nuclear power plant plant in Toronto or in nearby

139
00:09:34,253 --> 00:09:38,253
Speaker 3: Toronto in Ontario, which is one Australia could look at

140
00:09:38,373 --> 00:09:40,293
Speaker 3: as a possible model. But I think we're going to

141
00:09:40,293 --> 00:09:41,013
Speaker 3: come to that later on.

142
00:09:41,133 --> 00:09:44,773
Speaker 2: We yes, we will come to that later. Very good.

143
00:09:44,973 --> 00:09:46,733
Speaker 2: So how was your quote a slip?

144
00:09:48,773 --> 00:09:51,893
Speaker 3: Well, I don't know whether this is too much chit

145
00:09:51,973 --> 00:09:54,653
Speaker 3: chat for early in the podcast laden, but they, you know,

146
00:09:55,013 --> 00:09:58,933
Speaker 3: they always think that you can tran you can change

147
00:09:58,973 --> 00:10:01,173
Speaker 3: the flight in an hour and a half having arrived

148
00:10:01,173 --> 00:10:03,773
Speaker 3: in America. I don't know why, because it takes you

149
00:10:03,813 --> 00:10:05,613
Speaker 3: an hour and a half to get through the passport

150
00:10:05,733 --> 00:10:09,373
Speaker 3: cure alone. It'll reclaim your badget anyway. All up, they

151
00:10:09,413 --> 00:10:12,653
Speaker 3: gave me nine hours in Dallas Airport, which is not

152
00:10:12,733 --> 00:10:14,413
Speaker 3: a bad airport, but it is an airport.

153
00:10:15,133 --> 00:10:19,213
Speaker 2: Airports are airports. Yes, Indeed, what would you say was

154
00:10:19,253 --> 00:10:22,693
Speaker 2: the biggest problem or if you want the biggest problems

155
00:10:22,813 --> 00:10:26,653
Speaker 2: confronting Australia, because every country, it seems now has some issues.

156
00:10:28,013 --> 00:10:31,293
Speaker 3: Yeah, and we have plenty. It's hard to put them

157
00:10:31,333 --> 00:10:34,453
Speaker 3: in order because they're all big. But I would say

158
00:10:34,653 --> 00:10:37,773
Speaker 3: a top of my mind at the moment is economic

159
00:10:37,813 --> 00:10:41,573
Speaker 3: management and the fact that we've been living off two

160
00:10:41,613 --> 00:10:45,493
Speaker 3: decades really of mining boom and getting pretty lazy and

161
00:10:45,533 --> 00:10:48,613
Speaker 3: not doing the things which we have to do to

162
00:10:48,733 --> 00:10:54,013
Speaker 3: keep our economy competitive Keith. Amongst those is productivity. Productivity

163
00:10:54,013 --> 00:10:56,733
Speaker 3: has gone backwards. And then on top of that you've

164
00:10:56,773 --> 00:11:01,173
Speaker 3: got the rise of the green lobby, particularly the Green

165
00:11:01,533 --> 00:11:07,933
Speaker 3: Tape and now Black tape, which is the indigenous legislation

166
00:11:08,013 --> 00:11:10,253
Speaker 3: and is things you have to comply with, which means

167
00:11:10,253 --> 00:11:14,933
Speaker 3: that it's almost impossible to start a new mine or

168
00:11:15,133 --> 00:11:18,253
Speaker 3: drill for gas in Australia, and that of course is

169
00:11:18,253 --> 00:11:20,613
Speaker 3: the like blood of our economy. So I really do

170
00:11:20,693 --> 00:11:23,053
Speaker 3: fear for the place, particularly as this starts to kick

171
00:11:23,093 --> 00:11:24,213
Speaker 3: in in the next ten years.

172
00:11:24,893 --> 00:11:27,653
Speaker 2: Hasn't it already started well either.

173
00:11:27,693 --> 00:11:31,413
Speaker 3: The thing about these mining investment decisions is that there

174
00:11:31,173 --> 00:11:33,293
Speaker 3: are at least a decade or a decade and a

175
00:11:33,333 --> 00:11:36,973
Speaker 3: half to come to fruition. So I think it is

176
00:11:37,053 --> 00:11:39,093
Speaker 3: the next generation that are going to feel it. There'll

177
00:11:39,133 --> 00:11:42,693
Speaker 3: be fewer opportunities for them because we don't have that

178
00:11:42,813 --> 00:11:49,933
Speaker 3: pioneering quality to us anymore, and particularly the legal institutions

179
00:11:49,973 --> 00:11:54,773
Speaker 3: have become very very woke, very you save the planet

180
00:11:54,893 --> 00:11:57,733
Speaker 3: sort of a focus rather than looking at the law.

181
00:11:57,893 --> 00:12:00,973
Speaker 3: So you know, mining deals are held up for a

182
00:12:01,053 --> 00:12:04,533
Speaker 3: long long time if they get through at all. Luckily,

183
00:12:04,533 --> 00:12:06,613
Speaker 3: there are still companies that are prepared to fight and

184
00:12:06,653 --> 00:12:10,013
Speaker 3: go through that process and hope that perhaps we can

185
00:12:10,053 --> 00:12:14,373
Speaker 3: get a government that can smooth things out and really

186
00:12:14,413 --> 00:12:17,573
Speaker 3: accelerate investment in this country in the right things.

187
00:12:18,333 --> 00:12:24,373
Speaker 2: How big is DEI in Australia Now, it's pretty big.

188
00:12:24,493 --> 00:12:27,613
Speaker 3: I don't think it's quite as in say the States,

189
00:12:27,653 --> 00:12:29,133
Speaker 3: but I see in the States where I am at

190
00:12:29,133 --> 00:12:32,173
Speaker 3: the moment, is you say, where things are turning pretty quickly.

191
00:12:32,373 --> 00:12:36,373
Speaker 3: You know, there's a big backlash. I saw Walmart only

192
00:12:36,493 --> 00:12:40,333
Speaker 3: yesterday dropped a lot of their DEI policies. So companies

193
00:12:40,333 --> 00:12:42,373
Speaker 3: are beginning to drop them, and I think they will

194
00:12:42,413 --> 00:12:49,813
Speaker 3: in Australia. But they certainly They certainly do drive appointments

195
00:12:49,853 --> 00:12:53,173
Speaker 3: in big corporations, which means you're not necessarily appointing on

196
00:12:54,253 --> 00:12:58,173
Speaker 3: memic or pointing on some quality about them their gender

197
00:12:58,333 --> 00:13:01,773
Speaker 3: or the color or race or something. You know, and

198
00:13:01,853 --> 00:13:06,933
Speaker 3: it's big in universities, of course, so it is. It's

199
00:13:07,013 --> 00:13:10,093
Speaker 3: really entrenched, and I think we somehow have to get

200
00:13:10,093 --> 00:13:12,053
Speaker 3: beyond that thinking and go back to the idea we

201
00:13:12,213 --> 00:13:14,573
Speaker 3: just want the best people for the jobs, or the

202
00:13:14,573 --> 00:13:16,213
Speaker 3: best students going to university.

203
00:13:17,053 --> 00:13:21,173
Speaker 2: What a surprise I heard a little earlier this morning,

204
00:13:21,413 --> 00:13:24,973
Speaker 2: a bit of conversation with I missed. I missed a

205
00:13:25,013 --> 00:13:26,533
Speaker 2: lot of it because I was getting in the shower,

206
00:13:26,933 --> 00:13:30,573
Speaker 2: but a conversation with a guy whose name I seem

207
00:13:30,653 --> 00:13:34,893
Speaker 2: to recall as being Jimmy Starbuck or something very similar,

208
00:13:34,973 --> 00:13:37,813
Speaker 2: who has taken up the caudule, and I don't know

209
00:13:37,853 --> 00:13:43,333
Speaker 2: his methodology, but has had huge success in destroying DEI

210
00:13:43,653 --> 00:13:46,453
Speaker 2: in companies, and a lot of the companies that provide

211
00:13:46,453 --> 00:13:50,573
Speaker 2: the DEI service are closing down. There was one in

212
00:13:50,573 --> 00:13:53,813
Speaker 2: particular where the woman said, we're just we're just being

213
00:13:53,813 --> 00:13:55,453
Speaker 2: wiped out. We can't I've got to close the doors.

214
00:13:55,453 --> 00:13:58,493
Speaker 2: I can't. We can't get any work. And that's because

215
00:13:58,573 --> 00:14:01,653
Speaker 2: of because of this guy. Now, my name for him

216
00:14:01,693 --> 00:14:04,493
Speaker 2: might be slightly wrong, because I know it's it's it

217
00:14:04,653 --> 00:14:07,213
Speaker 2: sounds a bit fanciful, but it is a fanciful name.

218
00:14:07,253 --> 00:14:11,293
Speaker 2: I'm sure it's Starbus. I'm not sure about the Jimmy anymore,

219
00:14:11,493 --> 00:14:13,373
Speaker 2: but you get you get the picture. So there is

220
00:14:13,413 --> 00:14:18,653
Speaker 2: a growing success in pushback on the EI in America.

221
00:14:19,093 --> 00:14:22,533
Speaker 2: Now my question then becomes, that's where it came from

222
00:14:22,613 --> 00:14:25,653
Speaker 2: in the first place, so and then and then rippled

223
00:14:25,693 --> 00:14:27,933
Speaker 2: out to the rest of the world, including here, of course,

224
00:14:29,533 --> 00:14:33,053
Speaker 2: is it going to be automatically does it automatically follow

225
00:14:33,253 --> 00:14:35,773
Speaker 2: that the collapse in our countries?

226
00:14:36,853 --> 00:14:40,013
Speaker 3: Well, pretty this way late, and I'm pretty confident now

227
00:14:40,293 --> 00:14:42,893
Speaker 3: we've reached peak woke. I wouldn't have said that six

228
00:14:42,933 --> 00:14:45,773
Speaker 3: months ago, but I am now. And you can see

229
00:14:45,813 --> 00:14:48,493
Speaker 3: it in the States with DEI, as you say, and

230
00:14:48,493 --> 00:14:51,053
Speaker 3: they have been well. Two material things have happened in

231
00:14:51,053 --> 00:14:54,213
Speaker 3: the States. One was the Supreme Court decision I think

232
00:14:54,213 --> 00:14:58,853
Speaker 3: it was last year that overturned the preferential treatment for

233
00:15:00,013 --> 00:15:03,613
Speaker 3: on the grounds of race in university admissions and positive

234
00:15:03,653 --> 00:15:07,293
Speaker 3: discriminations they call it. So that was a material thing

235
00:15:07,333 --> 00:15:09,653
Speaker 3: which shook up the inniverse. The other thing, of course,

236
00:15:09,733 --> 00:15:13,133
Speaker 3: is Donald Trump. You know, it matters a lot who

237
00:15:13,173 --> 00:15:16,293
Speaker 3: your president is and who your administration is run by,

238
00:15:17,053 --> 00:15:19,573
Speaker 3: because they can pull the levers and order a whole

239
00:15:19,613 --> 00:15:23,893
Speaker 3: lot of things. And there's talk of Trump defunding American

240
00:15:23,973 --> 00:15:27,613
Speaker 3: universities if they carry on with their DEI policies. So

241
00:15:27,733 --> 00:15:30,573
Speaker 3: that's happened here and there's definitely a feeling and people

242
00:15:30,613 --> 00:15:33,453
Speaker 3: are writing about it quite confidently that this is peag woke.

243
00:15:34,293 --> 00:15:37,093
Speaker 3: The SAME's true in Australia. Two things happened there. One

244
00:15:37,173 --> 00:15:40,573
Speaker 3: is the Voice referendum, which happened at the very date

245
00:15:40,853 --> 00:15:44,933
Speaker 3: November fourteen last year, the day of your election. Of course,

246
00:15:44,973 --> 00:15:48,853
Speaker 3: we voted sixty forty against an Aboriginal voice to Parliament.

247
00:15:49,093 --> 00:15:52,933
Speaker 3: And although that was a referendum on a specific constitutional proposal,

248
00:15:53,453 --> 00:15:56,053
Speaker 3: people really took it really as a referendum on woke

249
00:15:56,333 --> 00:15:59,453
Speaker 3: and it's had a big effect and people are being

250
00:15:59,493 --> 00:16:02,653
Speaker 3: more confident to speak out about things that they might

251
00:16:02,693 --> 00:16:05,933
Speaker 3: have thought, well, get them into trouble eighteen months ago.

252
00:16:06,053 --> 00:16:08,573
Speaker 3: So it has been a change in the climate. And

253
00:16:08,613 --> 00:16:12,213
Speaker 3: again with the Albanesi government in trouble and the Pospulity

254
00:16:12,213 --> 00:16:15,573
Speaker 3: Coalition government think things are changing.

255
00:16:15,973 --> 00:16:19,053
Speaker 2: Can you think of one CEO of a of a

256
00:16:19,093 --> 00:16:22,533
Speaker 2: decent sized company who has taken a stand against it

257
00:16:22,733 --> 00:16:23,853
Speaker 2: from the beginning.

258
00:16:25,693 --> 00:16:30,533
Speaker 3: In Australia, Yeah, I'm racking my bones now. Well, I

259
00:16:30,573 --> 00:16:35,933
Speaker 3: suppose somebody like Gina Reinhardt, who's the well the the

260
00:16:36,013 --> 00:16:40,253
Speaker 3: owner of Hancock Search as the big mining and pastoral company.

261
00:16:40,293 --> 00:16:43,253
Speaker 3: She's Australia's richest woman. She's been strongly against it from

262
00:16:43,253 --> 00:16:46,453
Speaker 3: the start. But because she's she's not not a listed company.

263
00:16:46,493 --> 00:16:48,213
Speaker 3: You know, I think when you have a listed company,

264
00:16:48,253 --> 00:16:51,653
Speaker 3: the dynamics are different, and you know, you start having

265
00:16:51,693 --> 00:16:56,653
Speaker 3: to buy by all sorts of rules from the stock

266
00:16:56,733 --> 00:16:59,133
Speaker 3: market about how you should run your company and how

267
00:16:59,173 --> 00:17:03,533
Speaker 3: you should report. So it'd be very few, if any publicly.

268
00:17:03,733 --> 00:17:07,053
Speaker 3: I mean, I know some privately voiced concerns about it,

269
00:17:07,853 --> 00:17:11,573
Speaker 3: but yeah, I think it'll come though later, because you

270
00:17:11,653 --> 00:17:15,893
Speaker 3: see the backlash every time they take a woke star stance.

271
00:17:15,973 --> 00:17:19,333
Speaker 3: It was a massive backlash against WARS last year when

272
00:17:19,373 --> 00:17:23,493
Speaker 3: they decided they weren't going to sell any Australia Day merchandise.

273
00:17:24,213 --> 00:17:26,293
Speaker 3: It was a serious drop in sales for them for

274
00:17:26,333 --> 00:17:30,013
Speaker 3: a short while there and they had to basically come

275
00:17:30,613 --> 00:17:34,333
Speaker 3: very contritely and say, look, we regret that decision. So

276
00:17:34,373 --> 00:17:36,533
Speaker 3: there is a backlash now, and you do see it

277
00:17:37,213 --> 00:17:40,933
Speaker 3: when they try too hard in the DII area.

278
00:17:41,093 --> 00:17:44,733
Speaker 2: So two things. Then, going back to the only person

279
00:17:44,773 --> 00:17:46,733
Speaker 2: I can think of and I did interview him a

280
00:17:46,773 --> 00:17:49,373
Speaker 2: couple of years ago. It was Jerry Harvey. Oh yes,

281
00:17:49,733 --> 00:17:53,893
Speaker 2: and basically Jerry said screw you, yes, as far as

282
00:17:53,893 --> 00:17:56,453
Speaker 2: that was concerned. But there is a guy who is

283
00:17:56,933 --> 00:18:00,653
Speaker 2: very wealthy, very successful, a mind of his own and

284
00:18:00,773 --> 00:18:06,613
Speaker 2: doesn't rely on the support of anybody that matters for

285
00:18:06,653 --> 00:18:10,413
Speaker 2: his company to keep being successful. So he's got the

286
00:18:10,813 --> 00:18:13,573
Speaker 2: he's got the courage from from a couple of areas,

287
00:18:13,573 --> 00:18:16,853
Speaker 2: but I would suggest it comes from deep down inside

288
00:18:16,933 --> 00:18:20,733
Speaker 2: him where he has been successful and all sorts of

289
00:18:20,733 --> 00:18:24,133
Speaker 2: things over the years. He's just yeah, and he's just

290
00:18:24,853 --> 00:18:26,613
Speaker 2: confident exactly.

291
00:18:26,693 --> 00:18:29,933
Speaker 3: And their chain of stores, having normand chain is very

292
00:18:29,933 --> 00:18:33,213
Speaker 3: big in regional Australia. That's a big part of their

293
00:18:33,253 --> 00:18:36,733
Speaker 3: market and it would resonate, you know, that sort of

294
00:18:36,773 --> 00:18:40,533
Speaker 3: down to earth, no nonsense attitude resonates there. So I

295
00:18:40,573 --> 00:18:44,813
Speaker 3: think it's what's good for Jerry's sense of the sense

296
00:18:44,853 --> 00:18:48,053
Speaker 3: of sanity is also good for his business.

297
00:18:48,373 --> 00:18:51,493
Speaker 2: Like that of sense of sanity, and of course some

298
00:18:52,293 --> 00:18:56,373
Speaker 2: having Ormonds is big here too. So is there anything

299
00:18:56,413 --> 00:18:58,053
Speaker 2: else that you would put on the list? Well, there

300
00:18:58,093 --> 00:19:03,973
Speaker 2: must be of matters confronting Australia that are causing grief.

301
00:19:04,533 --> 00:19:07,973
Speaker 3: Well, I think that, and this lies behind the DEI

302
00:19:08,533 --> 00:19:12,693
Speaker 3: woke nonsense, is really a lack of conscious pride in

303
00:19:12,693 --> 00:19:15,813
Speaker 3: the country anymore, an understanding of who we are and

304
00:19:15,853 --> 00:19:20,693
Speaker 3: what we are. And this is manifesting itself in the

305
00:19:20,933 --> 00:19:26,413
Speaker 3: dreadful Jewish hatred which has erupted and been allowed to flourish.

306
00:19:26,533 --> 00:19:29,013
Speaker 3: And the government has been very weak on that and

307
00:19:29,053 --> 00:19:33,293
Speaker 3: that's not helped at all. You know, we've had only

308
00:19:33,373 --> 00:19:40,053
Speaker 3: last week a serious attack on a Jewish residential area

309
00:19:40,373 --> 00:19:44,293
Speaker 3: in western Sydney, Eastern Sydney, sorry area you would know

310
00:19:44,413 --> 00:19:51,093
Speaker 3: very well, and cars were graffited with obscene graffiti about Israel.

311
00:19:51,333 --> 00:19:54,093
Speaker 3: One we set a light damage was committed to buildings

312
00:19:54,893 --> 00:19:58,173
Speaker 3: and the most alban easy, the alban easy the Prime

313
00:19:58,173 --> 00:20:00,533
Speaker 3: Minister could do, was to come out and say this

314
00:20:00,693 --> 00:20:04,733
Speaker 3: is disturbing, like if you couldn't think of a more limp,

315
00:20:05,013 --> 00:20:09,613
Speaker 3: weak adjective to describe a dreadful hate crime like that

316
00:20:09,653 --> 00:20:13,653
Speaker 3: which had struck fear into the Jewish community who feel

317
00:20:13,733 --> 00:20:17,733
Speaker 3: under threat. And so I think that that breakdown, what

318
00:20:17,733 --> 00:20:19,813
Speaker 3: we're seeing with the anti seminism is just part of

319
00:20:19,813 --> 00:20:23,653
Speaker 3: a broader breakdown of the social fabric. A lot of

320
00:20:24,093 --> 00:20:27,133
Speaker 3: confidence and pride in who we are as a nation.

321
00:20:28,133 --> 00:20:32,493
Speaker 3: That's very I find that very troubling and in the

322
00:20:32,573 --> 00:20:34,893
Speaker 3: long term I think that's very bad for the country.

323
00:20:35,133 --> 00:20:39,773
Speaker 2: Alban Easy is arguably one of your biggest problems, if

324
00:20:39,813 --> 00:20:45,373
Speaker 2: not the biggest. There's been plenty of criticism, but across

325
00:20:45,453 --> 00:20:48,933
Speaker 2: this side of the Tasman, of course, Luxen has been

326
00:20:49,853 --> 00:20:53,413
Speaker 2: on the receiving end of some pretty vicious commentary of late.

327
00:20:54,413 --> 00:20:57,653
Speaker 2: The question is the question is going to be extend

328
00:20:57,693 --> 00:21:00,773
Speaker 2: that last comment of it because we have been going

329
00:21:00,813 --> 00:21:04,493
Speaker 2: through just in the last few days, ever since the

330
00:21:05,493 --> 00:21:09,373
Speaker 2: so called harker in Parliament, we have been going through

331
00:21:09,453 --> 00:21:14,973
Speaker 2: some pretty critical times with regard to discussion and there

332
00:21:14,973 --> 00:21:17,133
Speaker 2: are things that there are things that need to be

333
00:21:17,293 --> 00:21:20,453
Speaker 2: said that are not really being said well enough at

334
00:21:20,533 --> 00:21:23,373
Speaker 2: least to deal with the issues that are at hand.

335
00:21:24,093 --> 00:21:26,413
Speaker 2: And you've got yours, We've got ours, but they are

336
00:21:26,533 --> 00:21:34,333
Speaker 2: all race based. Now you can't claim, of course, that

337
00:21:33,013 --> 00:21:36,493
Speaker 2: there is anything to do with immigration as far as

338
00:21:37,293 --> 00:21:42,373
Speaker 2: the Mary contingent are concerned. But when it comes to

339
00:21:42,533 --> 00:21:46,413
Speaker 2: the anti Semitism, there has been a substantial amount of

340
00:21:46,413 --> 00:21:49,493
Speaker 2: that here. It is a case of in its time

341
00:21:49,533 --> 00:21:53,373
Speaker 2: it was confronted a case of allowing the wrong people

342
00:21:53,453 --> 00:21:55,973
Speaker 2: into the country. The last time that I recall that

343
00:21:56,013 --> 00:21:58,093
Speaker 2: you had something like that in the eastern suburbs of

344
00:21:58,133 --> 00:22:03,013
Speaker 2: Sydney was back in the let me think sixties and seventies,

345
00:22:04,533 --> 00:22:07,733
Speaker 2: when Yugoslavia broke up and the immigrants that came into

346
00:22:07,773 --> 00:22:11,333
Speaker 2: the country brought their problems with them, and there were

347
00:22:11,453 --> 00:22:14,093
Speaker 2: buildings set on fire, there were bashings, and I think

348
00:22:14,093 --> 00:22:15,493
Speaker 2: they might have even met a death or two.

349
00:22:15,933 --> 00:22:18,413
Speaker 3: Yeah, well, and I think but much of that I

350
00:22:18,453 --> 00:22:24,093
Speaker 3: think was violence and tension between ethnic groups estentially, particularly

351
00:22:24,173 --> 00:22:26,733
Speaker 3: the Serbs and the Croats in that case. So now

352
00:22:26,773 --> 00:22:31,613
Speaker 3: it's quite different. What you're seeing is people bringing their

353
00:22:31,813 --> 00:22:35,973
Speaker 3: troubles from around the world, bringing their dated, historical grievances

354
00:22:36,053 --> 00:22:39,373
Speaker 3: to this country and wanting to fight them out here.

355
00:22:39,453 --> 00:22:41,213
Speaker 3: And I say, well, you don't do that, and we

356
00:22:41,253 --> 00:22:43,333
Speaker 3: should have be very clear. If we just have much

357
00:22:43,333 --> 00:22:47,173
Speaker 3: more clarity from our Prime Minister and other leaders, that's sorry.

358
00:22:47,253 --> 00:22:51,133
Speaker 3: That part of the deal about becoming an Australian citizen,

359
00:22:51,173 --> 00:22:53,413
Speaker 3: about coming to live from Australia, as you leave those

360
00:22:53,453 --> 00:22:57,293
Speaker 3: things at home. We don't do historical grievances here. We

361
00:22:57,453 --> 00:23:01,053
Speaker 3: just treat everybody as an equal. If you become a citizen,

362
00:23:01,533 --> 00:23:03,653
Speaker 3: you have the same rights as every other citizen, whether

363
00:23:03,733 --> 00:23:06,973
Speaker 3: you've been here five minutes or five thousand years in

364
00:23:07,013 --> 00:23:12,133
Speaker 3: the case of originals, the longer. There's no difference, and

365
00:23:12,173 --> 00:23:17,573
Speaker 3: we cannot be reltigating historical grievances here in Australia.

366
00:23:18,093 --> 00:23:20,133
Speaker 2: All right, So I've got to bug out. I've got

367
00:23:20,173 --> 00:23:22,813
Speaker 2: a challenge for you. Then you can say that you

368
00:23:22,853 --> 00:23:26,093
Speaker 2: can even apply it to immigration and testing and what

369
00:23:26,133 --> 00:23:28,013
Speaker 2: have you. But people will say whatever they want to say,

370
00:23:28,773 --> 00:23:31,133
Speaker 2: whatever they think should be said to get them where

371
00:23:31,133 --> 00:23:34,333
Speaker 2: they want to go. Let them settle down a little bit,

372
00:23:34,493 --> 00:23:38,293
Speaker 2: and before too long there's enough of them to create

373
00:23:39,093 --> 00:23:43,053
Speaker 2: the issues that we're now witnessing on your side in

374
00:23:43,093 --> 00:23:46,373
Speaker 2: this case more but here as well. So what do

375
00:23:46,413 --> 00:23:47,013
Speaker 2: you do with it?

376
00:23:47,333 --> 00:23:50,573
Speaker 3: Well, you do it by reinforcing what a normal patterner

377
00:23:50,653 --> 00:23:54,453
Speaker 3: behavior is here, by having people in authority make it

378
00:23:54,693 --> 00:23:59,493
Speaker 3: very clear, unambiguously, which what sort of behavior is unacceptable

379
00:23:59,493 --> 00:24:03,093
Speaker 3: in this country, and having a police force and adjustive

380
00:24:03,213 --> 00:24:06,533
Speaker 3: system that when things get out of hand, is prepared

381
00:24:06,693 --> 00:24:09,693
Speaker 3: to come down hard. That's not been the case in

382
00:24:09,733 --> 00:24:13,453
Speaker 3: this country with the anti semitism we've seen. It's not

383
00:24:13,573 --> 00:24:18,213
Speaker 3: been the case with the Palestinian demonstrations which have taken

384
00:24:18,253 --> 00:24:22,133
Speaker 3: the streets, and particularly in Melbourne where they've been enormously disruptive.

385
00:24:22,213 --> 00:24:27,293
Speaker 3: They managed to disrupt the opening of a Christmas display

386
00:24:27,333 --> 00:24:29,893
Speaker 3: at Myers. You know, kids that come along to see

387
00:24:30,373 --> 00:24:33,213
Speaker 3: you know, Santa and on display in the windows of Myers,

388
00:24:33,613 --> 00:24:36,293
Speaker 3: and the Palestinians that come to protest and shut that

389
00:24:36,413 --> 00:24:42,413
Speaker 3: down for some ridiculous reason. That's fine, but at that

390
00:24:42,533 --> 00:24:44,493
Speaker 3: point the police need to step in and say you're

391
00:24:44,493 --> 00:24:48,333
Speaker 3: not authorized to do this. You're not authorized to intimidate people.

392
00:24:49,133 --> 00:24:52,453
Speaker 3: If you want to demonstrate, you have to seek permission

393
00:24:52,493 --> 00:24:55,733
Speaker 3: and approval. You can't just do it any place, anytime.

394
00:24:56,533 --> 00:24:59,013
Speaker 3: But they're not doing that. There's a two tier police

395
00:24:59,053 --> 00:25:02,973
Speaker 3: system going on here. They take a very very softly

396
00:25:03,053 --> 00:25:07,373
Speaker 3: softly approach when it comes to anybody from an ethnic background.

397
00:25:08,013 --> 00:25:10,813
Speaker 3: I gues the police just don't want to get into trouble,

398
00:25:10,853 --> 00:25:14,413
Speaker 3: but they're not prepared to enforce the law as it stands,

399
00:25:14,533 --> 00:25:17,093
Speaker 3: let alone. You know, the kind of hate laws we've

400
00:25:17,093 --> 00:25:20,733
Speaker 3: got do not get enforced. So you can have Palestinians

401
00:25:20,773 --> 00:25:23,733
Speaker 3: as you did here on November night last year, two

402
00:25:23,773 --> 00:25:27,453
Speaker 3: days after the attacks in Israel protesting on their steps

403
00:25:27,453 --> 00:25:32,093
Speaker 3: of the Opera house, saying gas the Jews, or if

404
00:25:32,293 --> 00:25:34,373
Speaker 3: you listen to the police, they say no, they're actually saying,

405
00:25:34,413 --> 00:25:37,373
Speaker 3: where's the Jews. I don't know that there's much difference

406
00:25:37,613 --> 00:25:41,613
Speaker 3: between those two chants as to which is most going

407
00:25:41,653 --> 00:25:44,853
Speaker 3: to intimidate the Jewish community in this country, indeed, anybody

408
00:25:44,853 --> 00:25:47,813
Speaker 3: who thinks that it should be a haven for people

409
00:25:47,813 --> 00:25:50,253
Speaker 3: who just get along, regardless to their backgrounds. But there

410
00:25:50,373 --> 00:25:53,693
Speaker 3: was not enforced. I don't know. I certainly saw no

411
00:25:54,333 --> 00:25:57,173
Speaker 3: arrests as a result of that. There might have been

412
00:25:57,173 --> 00:26:00,653
Speaker 3: a few, but there weren't a parent and then and

413
00:26:00,693 --> 00:26:03,573
Speaker 3: then most recently, well last week, you know, you had this,

414
00:26:03,813 --> 00:26:07,573
Speaker 3: as I say this, terrible anti Semitic violence in the

415
00:26:07,613 --> 00:26:11,493
Speaker 3: eastern suburbs and no police press conference. We didn't see

416
00:26:11,493 --> 00:26:13,693
Speaker 3: the police commissioner get up and say, look, I'm going

417
00:26:13,733 --> 00:26:16,053
Speaker 3: to come down on a ton of bricks and we're

418
00:26:16,093 --> 00:26:17,453
Speaker 3: going to get to the bottom of this, and we're

419
00:26:17,453 --> 00:26:20,413
Speaker 3: going to set up strike force whatever or whatever, none

420
00:26:20,453 --> 00:26:24,093
Speaker 3: of that, which was remarkable contrast to what had happened

421
00:26:24,093 --> 00:26:28,053
Speaker 3: only two or three days before, when the police held

422
00:26:28,213 --> 00:26:32,453
Speaker 3: a number of pressure conferences in one day to champion,

423
00:26:32,533 --> 00:26:36,053
Speaker 3: the fact that they arrested Alan Jones, the radio host,

424
00:26:36,533 --> 00:26:41,213
Speaker 3: on what are relatively low order charges if they're proven.

425
00:26:42,173 --> 00:26:44,093
Speaker 3: But of course he was a great name. They wanted

426
00:26:44,133 --> 00:26:50,013
Speaker 3: to get him on these so called sexual abuse allegations.

427
00:26:50,053 --> 00:26:52,973
Speaker 3: An eighty three year old man. They make a big

428
00:26:53,013 --> 00:26:56,333
Speaker 3: fuss about that, but not about anti Semitic violence. It's

429
00:26:56,333 --> 00:26:59,853
Speaker 3: just a feeling that the police force are not focused

430
00:27:00,013 --> 00:27:02,533
Speaker 3: on their role in life, which has enforced the law.

431
00:27:03,013 --> 00:27:05,053
Speaker 3: They're being sidetracked with other agendas.

432
00:27:05,253 --> 00:27:08,053
Speaker 2: Well, we can match that we've had a very weak

433
00:27:08,093 --> 00:27:11,173
Speaker 2: please force for a lengthy period of time. It starts

434
00:27:11,213 --> 00:27:14,053
Speaker 2: at the top under a labor government. It was very

435
00:27:14,093 --> 00:27:17,133
Speaker 2: poorly led. And we've only just recently, in the last

436
00:27:17,133 --> 00:27:21,573
Speaker 2: week or so, we've only appointed a new police commissioner.

437
00:27:21,813 --> 00:27:24,613
Speaker 2: And we'll see how things go new police commissioner under

438
00:27:24,653 --> 00:27:28,413
Speaker 2: a new government and maybe, just maybe they'll do the

439
00:27:28,493 --> 00:27:30,813
Speaker 2: job that they are supposed to do. And let me

440
00:27:30,853 --> 00:27:35,933
Speaker 2: just add actually, because I think it was only yesterday,

441
00:27:35,973 --> 00:27:39,293
Speaker 2: as we record, a few days before before this is released,

442
00:27:39,613 --> 00:27:44,013
Speaker 2: that the police announced the commissioner announced. Let me back

443
00:27:44,093 --> 00:27:46,373
Speaker 2: up here a minute. Police headquarters was in the middle

444
00:27:46,373 --> 00:27:49,653
Speaker 2: of the city up until fairly recently when it moved

445
00:27:49,693 --> 00:27:51,693
Speaker 2: to I don't know whether you know Pons and me,

446
00:27:51,813 --> 00:27:54,493
Speaker 2: but it's just on the fringe of the CBD on

447
00:27:54,573 --> 00:28:01,133
Speaker 2: the outside, really okay, And that meant that there wasn't

448
00:28:01,533 --> 00:28:04,373
Speaker 2: a central city police presence. Now, they used to have

449
00:28:04,893 --> 00:28:08,013
Speaker 2: a small police station done on the waterfront. They closed

450
00:28:08,013 --> 00:28:12,133
Speaker 2: that down and ever since then, for a variety of reasons,

451
00:28:12,173 --> 00:28:17,373
Speaker 2: we have had nothing but trouble in the city with violence, killings, robberies,

452
00:28:17,533 --> 00:28:20,693
Speaker 2: et cetera. Now that go back to what I started with.

453
00:28:21,293 --> 00:28:24,653
Speaker 2: They announced a new police station for the inner city.

454
00:28:25,613 --> 00:28:28,133
Speaker 2: That in itself is an indication that somebody with some

455
00:28:28,213 --> 00:28:30,933
Speaker 2: intelligence is now in control.

456
00:28:31,973 --> 00:28:34,613
Speaker 3: Yeah. Yeah, but you've got to have a police presence.

457
00:28:34,653 --> 00:28:38,813
Speaker 3: It's kind of pleasing, one oh one, isn't it. It's unlure.

458
00:28:39,453 --> 00:28:41,333
Speaker 2: Just to give you an idea, a friend of mine

459
00:28:41,333 --> 00:28:44,053
Speaker 2: who lives on the thirty second floor of an apartment

460
00:28:44,173 --> 00:28:47,933
Speaker 2: in the city watched when try to think how long ago,

461
00:28:47,973 --> 00:28:50,133
Speaker 2: but let's say at least a year ago. Last year anyway,

462
00:28:51,573 --> 00:28:54,813
Speaker 2: there was a there was an assault, a murdering, a

463
00:28:54,893 --> 00:28:58,333
Speaker 2: murderous assault on a building site and he just watched

464
00:28:58,373 --> 00:29:02,733
Speaker 2: it from his window. Now I'm what I'm keen to

465
00:29:02,813 --> 00:29:07,733
Speaker 2: do is to try and convey to New Zealanders who

466
00:29:07,853 --> 00:29:12,893
Speaker 2: are leaving in their droves and will probably continue to

467
00:29:12,933 --> 00:29:16,653
Speaker 2: do so to move to Australia as to whether or

468
00:29:16,693 --> 00:29:20,133
Speaker 2: not they're making the right choice. Now, I could ask

469
00:29:20,213 --> 00:29:22,133
Speaker 2: you straight out, is it the right thing? Is it

470
00:29:22,173 --> 00:29:25,773
Speaker 2: a good thing to do? Is Australia still the place

471
00:29:25,853 --> 00:29:31,333
Speaker 2: of hope promised land for others? Or would you suggest otherwise?

472
00:29:32,813 --> 00:29:34,813
Speaker 3: It's relative, isn't it? But I think it definitely is

473
00:29:34,973 --> 00:29:41,613
Speaker 3: a place of hope. It's a place that compared to

474
00:29:41,693 --> 00:29:45,533
Speaker 3: other Western countries, I think puts a check on a

475
00:29:45,573 --> 00:29:49,933
Speaker 3: lot of the extreme kind of progressive moves better than

476
00:29:50,053 --> 00:29:53,213
Speaker 3: others in most countries. In most cases we've got a

477
00:29:53,333 --> 00:29:56,733
Speaker 3: much stronger media, of course, and a more balanced media

478
00:29:56,773 --> 00:30:00,613
Speaker 3: in the sense that we have in newspapers and television stations,

479
00:30:00,613 --> 00:30:04,133
Speaker 3: at radio stations from right across the political spectrum. Really,

480
00:30:04,493 --> 00:30:07,213
Speaker 3: so we are in that sense, I think strong, and

481
00:30:07,253 --> 00:30:11,053
Speaker 3: we have you. The fundamentals are great. The economy is

482
00:30:11,093 --> 00:30:14,773
Speaker 3: still going well. House prices of course are ridiculous and

483
00:30:14,893 --> 00:30:17,493
Speaker 3: it's very hard to buy a home, and part of

484
00:30:17,533 --> 00:30:19,973
Speaker 3: that is immigration, which we could come and talk about that.

485
00:30:20,013 --> 00:30:25,013
Speaker 3: There's been far too many migrants been admitted to Australia

486
00:30:25,053 --> 00:30:28,653
Speaker 3: in the last three years, and surprise surprise, has put

487
00:30:28,653 --> 00:30:31,173
Speaker 3: a pressure on housing prices. One of the factor is

488
00:30:31,253 --> 00:30:35,413
Speaker 3: driving on housing prices. So there lots of issues here,

489
00:30:35,493 --> 00:30:39,693
Speaker 3: but I'd say that there's still opportunities. And if you

490
00:30:39,773 --> 00:30:42,413
Speaker 3: go to regional and rural Australia, which is where I

491
00:30:42,453 --> 00:30:45,733
Speaker 3: love spending more of my time than ever these days,

492
00:30:45,773 --> 00:30:51,013
Speaker 3: then you do find people buying larger, normal, sensible, pragmatic,

493
00:30:51,213 --> 00:30:53,773
Speaker 3: hard working people and they haven't got much time for

494
00:30:53,853 --> 00:30:56,773
Speaker 3: the elites that are trying to run our lives.

495
00:30:57,093 --> 00:30:58,333
Speaker 2: Where's your preference.

496
00:30:59,613 --> 00:31:03,773
Speaker 3: In terms of the country Australia. I love the northern

497
00:31:03,973 --> 00:31:07,373
Speaker 3: rivers of New South Wales, but I'm happy to travel anywhere,

498
00:31:07,373 --> 00:31:12,173
Speaker 3: particularly it's warm. But yeah, I just find you don't

499
00:31:12,173 --> 00:31:14,973
Speaker 3: have to get far out of the place and suddenly

500
00:31:15,013 --> 00:31:18,573
Speaker 3: it's a different atmosphere. You know, it's a people. You

501
00:31:18,693 --> 00:31:21,573
Speaker 3: know when you I was in Broken Hill, for instance,

502
00:31:22,053 --> 00:31:25,613
Speaker 3: working on a story on energy when on the day

503
00:31:25,613 --> 00:31:28,853
Speaker 3: of the US elections, and because we were all listening

504
00:31:28,933 --> 00:31:31,253
Speaker 3: to it, and I went out in the evening and

505
00:31:31,853 --> 00:31:34,813
Speaker 3: chatted to people in the pub, and you knew instinctively

506
00:31:34,973 --> 00:31:37,573
Speaker 3: that they would be very comfortable with the Donald Trump victory.

507
00:31:37,893 --> 00:31:40,213
Speaker 3: As in teed they were. You didn't have to tread

508
00:31:40,253 --> 00:31:44,213
Speaker 3: on eggshells and say which side were you supporting. You

509
00:31:44,373 --> 00:31:47,293
Speaker 3: just know that they'll take that view because you know,

510
00:31:47,333 --> 00:31:51,293
Speaker 3: they're very much like Trump's people in the States. They're

511
00:31:51,333 --> 00:31:56,213
Speaker 3: no nonsense, working people who want to make a living

512
00:31:56,253 --> 00:31:59,613
Speaker 3: and want to make the world better for their their families,

513
00:31:59,653 --> 00:32:02,173
Speaker 3: you know. So that's the sort of people who tend

514
00:32:02,173 --> 00:32:06,333
Speaker 3: to go for Donald Trump. I think common sense, yeah, yeah,

515
00:32:06,373 --> 00:32:11,653
Speaker 3: definitely common sense and the elite, which I'm increasingly just

516
00:32:11,773 --> 00:32:13,653
Speaker 3: calling them the elite because that's what they are, and

517
00:32:13,693 --> 00:32:17,013
Speaker 3: Trump calls them the elites in the States. A really small,

518
00:32:17,053 --> 00:32:19,413
Speaker 3: sort of select group of people when you boil it down.

519
00:32:20,093 --> 00:32:22,693
Speaker 3: But they're just they're very good at talking, aren't they.

520
00:32:22,613 --> 00:32:26,773
Speaker 3: They're very good at fancy words and making arguments and

521
00:32:26,773 --> 00:32:29,813
Speaker 3: building narratives, and they can drag you with them, or

522
00:32:29,813 --> 00:32:32,533
Speaker 3: they drag some of the population along with their nonsense

523
00:32:32,613 --> 00:32:36,413
Speaker 3: if you're not careful. But they're not the majority, and

524
00:32:36,973 --> 00:32:40,533
Speaker 3: in the end, they talk nonsense and often, you know,

525
00:32:40,533 --> 00:32:42,893
Speaker 3: because they're up there in the clouds, they're talking theory

526
00:32:42,933 --> 00:32:45,573
Speaker 3: the whole time. On things like energy policy rather than

527
00:32:45,573 --> 00:32:50,133
Speaker 3: the practical aspects of it, the engineering and aspects of

528
00:32:50,253 --> 00:32:54,493
Speaker 3: energy policy. Know, they're talking in high fluting theoretical.

529
00:32:54,013 --> 00:32:59,653
Speaker 2: Terms, and this is a good place to introduce something else. Momentarily,

530
00:33:00,133 --> 00:33:03,613
Speaker 2: question which would be in and don't think about it

531
00:33:03,653 --> 00:33:07,493
Speaker 2: too much, just shoot an answer. Which would be the

532
00:33:07,533 --> 00:33:12,533
Speaker 2: most dangerous city in Australia, Which would be the least I.

533
00:33:12,453 --> 00:33:15,133
Speaker 3: Think the most dangerous, well, if you're talking about crime,

534
00:33:15,173 --> 00:33:18,893
Speaker 3: would be Alice Springs without a doubt. And then allied

535
00:33:18,893 --> 00:33:21,893
Speaker 3: to that, there are a lot of towns and cities

536
00:33:22,493 --> 00:33:27,013
Speaker 3: on the fringes of central Australia where there are large

537
00:33:27,053 --> 00:33:33,093
Speaker 3: Aboriginal populations have equal problems, particularly youth crime. And then

538
00:33:33,213 --> 00:33:35,933
Speaker 3: after that I'd say, off the Melbourne major cities Melbourne

539
00:33:35,973 --> 00:33:39,213
Speaker 3: without a doubt or Brisbane actually is a very high

540
00:33:39,933 --> 00:33:41,253
Speaker 3: rated crime in Queensland.

541
00:33:41,293 --> 00:33:43,933
Speaker 2: All right, you're ready for a surprise, Yeah, go on.

542
00:33:44,053 --> 00:33:51,173
Speaker 2: I pulled this detail off last night intentionally because no, no,

543
00:33:51,453 --> 00:33:54,093
Speaker 2: not at all, just for my own interests sake, And

544
00:33:54,133 --> 00:33:55,733
Speaker 2: then when I saw it, I thought, no, I'm going

545
00:33:55,733 --> 00:33:58,533
Speaker 2: to include this, So I'm going to work from ten

546
00:33:58,613 --> 00:34:03,093
Speaker 2: back to one. Yeah, the least, well, the least most

547
00:34:03,213 --> 00:34:13,133
Speaker 2: dangerous of the ten coffs Harbor second, Darwin third, yes, third,

548
00:34:13,733 --> 00:34:17,533
Speaker 2: Alice Springs. I wrote down, I wrote down some of

549
00:34:17,533 --> 00:34:19,453
Speaker 2: the some of the reasons, some of the reasons that

550
00:34:19,493 --> 00:34:24,093
Speaker 2: were given domestic violence in Alice Springs, substance abuse, et cetera.

551
00:34:25,893 --> 00:34:31,733
Speaker 2: Next surprised me. Number seven Hobart. Then then came Sydney

552
00:34:31,773 --> 00:34:37,053
Speaker 2: at six, Brisbane at five, Perth at fourth place. In

553
00:34:37,053 --> 00:34:42,493
Speaker 2: fourth place third is Melbourne. Adelaide is second. Adelaide is

554
00:34:42,493 --> 00:34:46,933
Speaker 2: the second most dangerous city in Australia according to this survey.

555
00:34:47,893 --> 00:34:49,853
Speaker 2: And first of all, you never guess it, so I'll

556
00:34:49,853 --> 00:34:52,653
Speaker 2: tell you the Central Coast. Now I wouldn't call the

557
00:34:52,693 --> 00:34:56,013
Speaker 2: Central Coast a city, but they've included it as such,

558
00:34:56,373 --> 00:34:59,253
Speaker 2: gang violence and drugs being the most the most prominent.

559
00:34:59,533 --> 00:35:07,533
Speaker 2: But the Central Coast, which is between basically between the

560
00:35:07,573 --> 00:35:12,453
Speaker 2: northern Sydney, just to make it simple, up up to

561
00:35:13,693 --> 00:35:14,893
Speaker 2: Gosford and a bit beyond.

562
00:35:15,773 --> 00:35:19,013
Speaker 3: Yeah, well, yes, actually the Central Coast doesn't surprise me.

563
00:35:19,253 --> 00:35:24,333
Speaker 3: But it's got a lot of a little welfare pockets.

564
00:35:24,373 --> 00:35:26,733
Speaker 3: There were a very high number of people on welfare

565
00:35:26,853 --> 00:35:28,053
Speaker 3: and people are doing it tough.

566
00:35:29,773 --> 00:35:34,373
Speaker 2: But yeah, So moving on, education has been a problem

567
00:35:34,653 --> 00:35:38,653
Speaker 2: in both our countries. Education in Australia I think has

568
00:35:39,293 --> 00:35:43,373
Speaker 2: maybe had the biggest problem because you've got states playing parts.

569
00:35:44,413 --> 00:35:48,293
Speaker 2: What has happened COVID disrupted of course a great deal,

570
00:35:48,493 --> 00:35:52,733
Speaker 2: but what's happened to education overall? Do you think since

571
00:35:53,253 --> 00:35:54,573
Speaker 2: we got released from jail?

572
00:35:55,253 --> 00:35:58,573
Speaker 3: Well, as you say this big hangover from COVID, there

573
00:35:58,573 --> 00:36:02,693
Speaker 3: are all sorts of problems with mental illness to put

574
00:36:02,693 --> 00:36:07,253
Speaker 3: a broad brush answer on that, and children lowest, low

575
00:36:07,293 --> 00:36:09,693
Speaker 3: school attendance rate, like a lot of kids are having

576
00:36:09,733 --> 00:36:13,373
Speaker 3: trouble getting back to school, so that's a problem. But

577
00:36:13,493 --> 00:36:17,293
Speaker 3: we continue to see every year, every year when we

578
00:36:17,333 --> 00:36:21,133
Speaker 3: get the latest scores and that plan scores and the

579
00:36:21,213 --> 00:36:26,573
Speaker 3: piece of scores, you see a further decline in standards

580
00:36:27,653 --> 00:36:32,133
Speaker 3: relatives to other countries. We continue to go backwards because

581
00:36:32,133 --> 00:36:36,093
Speaker 3: I think New Zealand does actually and this is despite

582
00:36:36,133 --> 00:36:41,333
Speaker 3: the fact that we've had massive increase in investment investment

583
00:36:41,413 --> 00:36:45,853
Speaker 3: per child in schools at both private and public schools,

584
00:36:45,933 --> 00:36:49,373
Speaker 3: and that's been going on really for at least fifteen

585
00:36:49,453 --> 00:36:51,813
Speaker 3: or twenty years. You know, we've been a reduction in

586
00:36:52,373 --> 00:36:57,013
Speaker 3: the school in the pupil to teacher ratio, so more

587
00:36:57,053 --> 00:37:01,373
Speaker 3: teachers for fewer pupils, and in a great investment in

588
00:37:01,453 --> 00:37:04,013
Speaker 3: school buildings right up and down the country, some of

589
00:37:04,093 --> 00:37:07,533
Speaker 3: that funded by the federal government, but none of that

590
00:37:07,613 --> 00:37:11,453
Speaker 3: is actually rood outcomes. So we've got to ask what's

591
00:37:11,493 --> 00:37:13,853
Speaker 3: going wrong or what are we doing wrong? How do

592
00:37:13,893 --> 00:37:17,093
Speaker 3: we fix that? And there's a massive continues to be

593
00:37:17,293 --> 00:37:21,413
Speaker 3: hemorrhaging away from the public schools towards private schools.

594
00:37:22,373 --> 00:37:25,653
Speaker 2: What would your what would your first answer be to

595
00:37:25,773 --> 00:37:28,933
Speaker 2: a question of what would you do to overcome the

596
00:37:29,133 --> 00:37:31,293
Speaker 2: issue that you've just arrived at.

597
00:37:32,573 --> 00:37:36,053
Speaker 3: I think you're going to address teacher training, really, because

598
00:37:36,053 --> 00:37:38,773
Speaker 3: they're spending in our four years I think to get

599
00:37:38,813 --> 00:37:42,373
Speaker 3: it qualified as a teacher used to be only one year,

600
00:37:42,493 --> 00:37:44,653
Speaker 3: and now they've made it four years. And the teachers,

601
00:37:45,253 --> 00:37:47,693
Speaker 3: I think, are getting diverted with a lot of things

602
00:37:47,733 --> 00:37:50,093
Speaker 3: that are not really core curriculum. You know, they're not

603
00:37:50,573 --> 00:37:52,853
Speaker 3: they're not They don't come in every morning thinking what

604
00:37:52,853 --> 00:37:55,573
Speaker 3: are the first three most important things I've got to

605
00:37:55,573 --> 00:37:59,373
Speaker 3: do today? Obviously reading, writing, and arithmetic. They don't seem

606
00:37:59,413 --> 00:38:03,213
Speaker 3: to have that clarity. So I mean teachers, my experience,

607
00:38:03,253 --> 00:38:05,933
Speaker 3: most teachers are very good, very conscientious people, but they're

608
00:38:05,973 --> 00:38:10,413
Speaker 3: being diverted and also by imustration as well. But we

609
00:38:10,533 --> 00:38:12,213
Speaker 3: have to get them back to square one. And there's

610
00:38:12,213 --> 00:38:14,813
Speaker 3: a very interesting initiute which I came across going on

611
00:38:14,853 --> 00:38:18,293
Speaker 3: in one Christian based school in Newcastle where they've actually

612
00:38:18,853 --> 00:38:21,613
Speaker 3: decided they're going to train their own teachers rather than

613
00:38:21,693 --> 00:38:24,493
Speaker 3: see them go to university and get them back after

614
00:38:25,093 --> 00:38:29,173
Speaker 3: four years, they're going to train them on the job

615
00:38:29,773 --> 00:38:33,013
Speaker 3: at the school and they'll get an academic component to

616
00:38:33,093 --> 00:38:37,173
Speaker 3: that provided by another college. But basically it turns it

617
00:38:37,213 --> 00:38:41,213
Speaker 3: from a university academic degree into an apprenticeship, you know,

618
00:38:41,333 --> 00:38:44,453
Speaker 3: like learning on the job, and that's really I think

619
00:38:44,493 --> 00:38:47,693
Speaker 3: what teaching used to be. So I think taking this

620
00:38:47,813 --> 00:38:50,933
Speaker 3: out of the universities and making the education for teachers

621
00:38:50,973 --> 00:38:56,573
Speaker 3: more practical and focused on the basics would help. Plus

622
00:38:56,773 --> 00:39:00,133
Speaker 3: changes to the curriculum are the big things. I think.

623
00:39:00,653 --> 00:39:03,133
Speaker 2: What religion is the school.

624
00:39:03,933 --> 00:39:07,493
Speaker 3: It's a Christian school that's I'm not really certain it's

625
00:39:07,493 --> 00:39:10,653
Speaker 3: on I visited a place I'm trying to think of

626
00:39:10,653 --> 00:39:12,293
Speaker 3: them that name of it, but it was very very

627
00:39:12,333 --> 00:39:16,333
Speaker 3: well run and very good non denominational Christian school. It's

628
00:39:16,413 --> 00:39:18,733
Speaker 3: very popular. They have a big waiting list to get

629
00:39:18,773 --> 00:39:20,293
Speaker 3: into it. And it's always the sign of a good

630
00:39:20,293 --> 00:39:24,933
Speaker 3: stool and waiting lists, not just from Christian families, but

631
00:39:25,013 --> 00:39:27,173
Speaker 3: from others who've just heard it does a good education.

632
00:39:28,133 --> 00:39:30,493
Speaker 2: I went to a religious school for a couple of

633
00:39:30,613 --> 00:39:35,333
Speaker 2: years that I'm thinking I'm in high school. The teachers

634
00:39:35,373 --> 00:39:39,053
Speaker 2: were trained at school. It was a combination, you know,

635
00:39:39,053 --> 00:39:43,733
Speaker 2: it was an apprenticeship situation and they'd learnt And we

636
00:39:43,853 --> 00:39:48,453
Speaker 2: covered this off in a previous podcast over this particular issue.

637
00:39:49,133 --> 00:39:54,333
Speaker 2: They learnt on the job like an apprenticeship and with

638
00:39:54,773 --> 00:40:00,893
Speaker 2: an overseeing authority that was not always there but was

639
00:40:01,253 --> 00:40:05,413
Speaker 2: keeping an eye on things, and I think it turned

640
00:40:05,413 --> 00:40:08,053
Speaker 2: out some well, as far as I can tell some

641
00:40:08,373 --> 00:40:09,253
Speaker 2: pretty good teachers.

642
00:40:09,933 --> 00:40:12,333
Speaker 3: One thing it does later is it gives them immersion

643
00:40:12,333 --> 00:40:14,733
Speaker 3: in the classroom very early on in their training. So

644
00:40:15,293 --> 00:40:17,653
Speaker 3: they will learn pretty quickly whether that's for them or not.

645
00:40:18,293 --> 00:40:20,653
Speaker 3: You know, they will know that they've got a chance

646
00:40:20,693 --> 00:40:23,573
Speaker 3: to get out of it if teaching is not quite

647
00:40:23,573 --> 00:40:27,253
Speaker 3: what their cup of tea, instead of doing four years

648
00:40:27,253 --> 00:40:30,333
Speaker 3: in training and then finding out. So I think that's

649
00:40:30,493 --> 00:40:35,573
Speaker 3: one very good practical aspect of teaching teachers that way.

650
00:40:36,413 --> 00:40:41,373
Speaker 2: I'll tell you something of interest. At that school, there

651
00:40:41,573 --> 00:40:47,773
Speaker 2: was the son of a person in the media, the

652
00:40:47,813 --> 00:40:51,373
Speaker 2: man trying to think of his name. He was the

653
00:40:51,413 --> 00:40:54,653
Speaker 2: manager of TWGB and Sydney when it was in Phillip Street,

654
00:40:54,733 --> 00:41:00,253
Speaker 2: So this is back in the sixties and he was

655
00:41:00,293 --> 00:41:05,893
Speaker 2: sent there because his father knew the school's reputation. Now

656
00:41:06,213 --> 00:41:09,533
Speaker 2: other matter that's causing a lot of trouble here and

657
00:41:10,093 --> 00:41:16,453
Speaker 2: at both ends of the enterprise is healthcare and hospitals,

658
00:41:16,613 --> 00:41:21,213
Speaker 2: or hospitals and health We have a great shortage of

659
00:41:21,373 --> 00:41:24,853
Speaker 2: nurses and doctors. We were told a couple of days

660
00:41:24,893 --> 00:41:28,253
Speaker 2: ago that we were getting I think fifty new doctors

661
00:41:28,773 --> 00:41:31,653
Speaker 2: coming to the country. I don't know. I don't know

662
00:41:32,173 --> 00:41:36,133
Speaker 2: the circumstances at this point, but we have had a

663
00:41:36,173 --> 00:41:40,053
Speaker 2: short shortage and they are still leaving the country, and

664
00:41:40,173 --> 00:41:42,253
Speaker 2: most of them would be going to Australia, but not all.

665
00:41:43,173 --> 00:41:46,413
Speaker 3: Well, this is a problem the world over, actually late,

666
00:41:47,533 --> 00:41:49,693
Speaker 3: and it's rute. The underlying problem is we don't have

667
00:41:49,773 --> 00:41:54,333
Speaker 3: enough people anymore. You know that the population population growth

668
00:41:55,173 --> 00:41:58,573
Speaker 3: is declining almost everywhere in the world. It's below replacement

669
00:41:58,733 --> 00:42:03,293
Speaker 3: rate in almost every country in Asia, for instance, as

670
00:42:03,333 --> 00:42:06,293
Speaker 3: it has been for some time in New Zealand and Australia.

671
00:42:06,853 --> 00:42:10,093
Speaker 3: So you know, it just is not such a large

672
00:42:10,133 --> 00:42:14,213
Speaker 3: supply of skilled migrants, or even unskilled migrants for that matter.

673
00:42:15,093 --> 00:42:16,853
Speaker 3: So we're going to find it harder and harder to

674
00:42:16,933 --> 00:42:19,333
Speaker 3: sort of make up for our own lack of training

675
00:42:19,413 --> 00:42:23,293
Speaker 3: enough doctors and teacher and nurses by just importing them.

676
00:42:23,293 --> 00:42:25,853
Speaker 3: That's going to be harder. If I remember to focus hard,

677
00:42:25,973 --> 00:42:26,293
Speaker 3: if I.

678
00:42:26,253 --> 00:42:30,653
Speaker 2: Remember correctly, you did a piece on that. Didn't you procreate.

679
00:42:30,253 --> 00:42:34,453
Speaker 3: Or or perish? Yes, I mean, yes, it is. It

680
00:42:34,533 --> 00:42:37,053
Speaker 3: is a massive change that nobody's talking about, and it's

681
00:42:37,093 --> 00:42:40,373
Speaker 3: been going on for probably sixty or seventy years. You

682
00:42:40,853 --> 00:42:47,613
Speaker 3: remember that that famous book, The Population Bomb in early seventies. Yeah,

683
00:42:47,653 --> 00:42:49,293
Speaker 3: well it was very at the time, it was the

684
00:42:49,373 --> 00:42:52,053
Speaker 3: best seller. He was concerned about how the population was

685
00:42:52,093 --> 00:42:53,853
Speaker 3: going to explode and we were all going to start

686
00:42:53,893 --> 00:42:56,933
Speaker 3: because it'd be too many people. Well, actually the opposite

687
00:42:57,053 --> 00:42:59,253
Speaker 3: is happening. It's taken a while for that to filter

688
00:42:59,373 --> 00:43:03,573
Speaker 3: through into overall population numbers because we're getting older, you know,

689
00:43:03,613 --> 00:43:07,893
Speaker 3: thanks to medical science, we're living longer. But now populations

690
00:43:07,933 --> 00:43:11,133
Speaker 3: in places like Japan have started to decline, have been

691
00:43:11,173 --> 00:43:16,533
Speaker 3: declining for some time, in say Hungry and in Korea,

692
00:43:16,693 --> 00:43:20,093
Speaker 3: which has one of the lowest birth rates in the world,

693
00:43:20,373 --> 00:43:24,373
Speaker 3: and India surprisingly is below replacement rates. So all these

694
00:43:24,413 --> 00:43:27,333
Speaker 3: places we thought were going to provide keep producing human

695
00:43:27,373 --> 00:43:30,213
Speaker 3: beings and training them up to provide our doctors and

696
00:43:30,253 --> 00:43:32,453
Speaker 3: so forth, und well, it's not going to happen. So

697
00:43:32,493 --> 00:43:34,093
Speaker 3: we have to at some point to come to terms

698
00:43:34,133 --> 00:43:34,373
Speaker 3: with that.

699
00:43:34,613 --> 00:43:37,493
Speaker 2: Seeing that you've done the work on it. When you

700
00:43:37,533 --> 00:43:43,693
Speaker 2: mentioned India not replacing the population, is that a bad thing?

701
00:43:43,853 --> 00:43:47,093
Speaker 2: When you consider the number of people who live in India.

702
00:43:49,653 --> 00:43:52,453
Speaker 3: It's probably not a bad thing. But you have to

703
00:43:52,453 --> 00:43:54,933
Speaker 3: be able to adjust to it eventually, you see, because

704
00:43:55,053 --> 00:44:00,173
Speaker 3: we still need productive people in the workforce, making things

705
00:44:00,213 --> 00:44:04,813
Speaker 3: and earning money, especially as people get older and you've

706
00:44:04,813 --> 00:44:07,733
Speaker 3: got a larger number of people or the higher dependency

707
00:44:07,813 --> 00:44:10,333
Speaker 3: rates they can you know, the number of people out

708
00:44:10,333 --> 00:44:13,133
Speaker 3: of the workforce because they've grown too old compared to

709
00:44:13,173 --> 00:44:16,013
Speaker 3: the ones that are in it paying the taxes. So

710
00:44:16,053 --> 00:44:19,293
Speaker 3: that if it happens too rapidly and we're not prepared,

711
00:44:19,413 --> 00:44:22,253
Speaker 3: we haven't improved productivity, for instance, and learned how to

712
00:44:22,293 --> 00:44:26,093
Speaker 3: make things better and smarter with fewer people, then it

713
00:44:26,253 --> 00:44:29,773
Speaker 3: is going to be a problem. It'll come through in

714
00:44:29,853 --> 00:44:32,333
Speaker 3: all sorts of ways, and what I understands happening in

715
00:44:32,373 --> 00:44:34,733
Speaker 3: injury is they've still got a slightly higher birth rate

716
00:44:34,773 --> 00:44:37,533
Speaker 3: in the south of India, so there's a big migration

717
00:44:37,613 --> 00:44:39,533
Speaker 3: from the south to the north, which is where most

718
00:44:39,573 --> 00:44:42,173
Speaker 3: of the industrial production is carried out.

719
00:44:42,533 --> 00:44:46,453
Speaker 2: Speaking of productivity, we've had a problem with productivity for

720
00:44:46,493 --> 00:44:48,533
Speaker 2: as long as I can remember on this side of

721
00:44:48,533 --> 00:44:52,453
Speaker 2: the tasma is AI possibly the answer.

722
00:44:54,133 --> 00:44:57,133
Speaker 3: I'll reserve my judgment on that.

723
00:44:57,133 --> 00:44:58,733
Speaker 2: That's a very diplomatic answer.

724
00:45:00,253 --> 00:45:02,173
Speaker 3: I just have to put my hand on the out

725
00:45:02,173 --> 00:45:04,413
Speaker 3: and say I just don't know, and I can't even

726
00:45:05,093 --> 00:45:08,173
Speaker 3: I can't even bluffin unswer on this one. It's too

727
00:45:08,613 --> 00:45:13,373
Speaker 3: to say. It is fascinating, it's exciting in some ways,

728
00:45:13,933 --> 00:45:17,133
Speaker 3: quite scary in others. But I think we're all just

729
00:45:17,253 --> 00:45:20,213
Speaker 3: learning to work out what it can do. I don't

730
00:45:20,253 --> 00:45:22,973
Speaker 3: think anybody really knows what its overall effect is going

731
00:45:23,013 --> 00:45:28,093
Speaker 3: to be on productivity. Will it replace journalists? For example?

732
00:45:28,613 --> 00:45:32,453
Speaker 3: I tend to think not, because sure I can get

733
00:45:32,453 --> 00:45:35,253
Speaker 3: Ai to write an opinion piece for me. I could say,

734
00:45:35,413 --> 00:45:40,173
Speaker 3: write an opinion piece from a conservative perspective on this topic,

735
00:45:40,213 --> 00:45:43,213
Speaker 3: and it will spew something out, which is you've probably

736
00:45:43,213 --> 00:45:45,973
Speaker 3: got fewer spelling mistakes in the device rushing it off.

737
00:45:46,053 --> 00:45:51,573
Speaker 3: But it's just not something slightly not there's no humanity

738
00:45:51,573 --> 00:45:55,453
Speaker 3: in it, there's nothing to surprise you, there's nothing quirky,

739
00:45:55,613 --> 00:45:58,653
Speaker 3: you know, it's I don't know that I'll ever overcome that.

740
00:45:59,053 --> 00:46:02,813
Speaker 3: And my example of this is the drum machine. If

741
00:46:02,853 --> 00:46:05,293
Speaker 3: you remember in them, when would it be in the

742
00:46:05,373 --> 00:46:09,653
Speaker 3: in the eighties when electro drummer machine started to replace

743
00:46:09,733 --> 00:46:13,613
Speaker 3: real drummers and you listen to those songs and you think, no,

744
00:46:13,893 --> 00:46:16,693
Speaker 3: you know, when there's an electric drummer, sine when there's

745
00:46:16,733 --> 00:46:19,213
Speaker 3: a real drummer. Even now you can tell a difference.

746
00:46:19,293 --> 00:46:22,253
Speaker 3: It's got no life in it. So I don't know,

747
00:46:22,453 --> 00:46:27,133
Speaker 3: that's not that's not a very comprehensive look at the

748
00:46:27,173 --> 00:46:29,933
Speaker 3: whole thing of AI, but it is a way to

749
00:46:29,973 --> 00:46:31,173
Speaker 3: see I think as far as we.

750
00:46:31,173 --> 00:46:36,973
Speaker 2: Know well, I asked somebody once whether AI could be hijacked,

751
00:46:37,013 --> 00:46:39,173
Speaker 2: because it would be very hard to tell. But if

752
00:46:39,213 --> 00:46:42,053
Speaker 2: it was, what could it be? What could it be

753
00:46:42,173 --> 00:46:46,253
Speaker 2: trained to do? What attitudes could it be trained to

754
00:46:46,413 --> 00:46:52,213
Speaker 2: introduce without anybody really knowing? And the answer was along

755
00:46:52,253 --> 00:46:54,893
Speaker 2: the lines have not never happened. And I think that

756
00:46:55,013 --> 00:46:57,813
Speaker 2: was a very bad answer, because if you're going to

757
00:46:57,853 --> 00:47:01,293
Speaker 2: talk about AI, it's a major it's a major breakthrough

758
00:47:01,333 --> 00:47:06,253
Speaker 2: simpy in itself. Its usage can be abused like so

759
00:47:06,333 --> 00:47:11,853
Speaker 2: many other aspects of development of life without question for me.

760
00:47:12,893 --> 00:47:17,653
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think that's right now. So well, the jury's out,

761
00:47:17,693 --> 00:47:18,373
Speaker 3: I guess latent.

762
00:47:18,573 --> 00:47:21,173
Speaker 2: Yeah, okay, do you want to sit on the jury?

763
00:47:21,253 --> 00:47:26,293
Speaker 2: That's the question now. You mentioned at the beginning that

764
00:47:26,413 --> 00:47:30,973
Speaker 2: you were going up to see a nuclear a nuclear development.

765
00:47:31,893 --> 00:47:34,933
Speaker 3: Yeah, a nuclear power plant up in Ontario, a place

766
00:47:34,973 --> 00:47:40,853
Speaker 3: called Darlington, which is very interesting from an Australian point

767
00:47:40,853 --> 00:47:42,813
Speaker 3: of view as a kind of technology we should be

768
00:47:42,813 --> 00:47:46,133
Speaker 3: looking at. But it will be the third nuclear plant

769
00:47:46,133 --> 00:47:50,413
Speaker 3: I visited this year. Actually, because the whole debate is hot,

770
00:47:50,613 --> 00:47:54,773
Speaker 3: hot it up in Australia. You now have the opposition,

771
00:47:55,173 --> 00:47:59,213
Speaker 3: the Coalition, going to the next election with a policy

772
00:47:59,453 --> 00:48:02,253
Speaker 3: to lift the moratorium on nuclear powers. You know, we

773
00:48:02,293 --> 00:48:08,173
Speaker 3: can't have nuclear power in Australia, it's illegal and the

774
00:48:08,413 --> 00:48:12,893
Speaker 3: bata's really rolled on very quickly on this. Most people,

775
00:48:12,973 --> 00:48:15,653
Speaker 3: I think, if they're not in favor of nuclear power,

776
00:48:15,653 --> 00:48:18,533
Speaker 3: they're certainly in favor of considering it as part of

777
00:48:18,533 --> 00:48:20,653
Speaker 3: our mix because they know how much trouble we're in

778
00:48:20,693 --> 00:48:24,053
Speaker 3: with energy, and younger people in particular don't have the

779
00:48:24,053 --> 00:48:27,333
Speaker 3: same hang ups over nuclear for instance. They're not obsessed

780
00:48:27,333 --> 00:48:29,773
Speaker 3: with Three Mile Island and churnobil in the way that

781
00:48:29,973 --> 00:48:33,573
Speaker 3: the baby boomers are. So yeah, it's a live debate

782
00:48:33,613 --> 00:48:36,493
Speaker 3: in Australia and I've become, i suppose, quite an advocate

783
00:48:36,493 --> 00:48:40,053
Speaker 3: for nuclear power. I'm now quite convinced that it is

784
00:48:40,493 --> 00:48:42,333
Speaker 3: what we need to do in Australia and probably in

785
00:48:42,333 --> 00:48:45,213
Speaker 3: New Zealand. Actually, to be honest, I think there's less

786
00:48:45,293 --> 00:48:47,453
Speaker 3: pressing need for it there for a number of reasons.

787
00:48:47,533 --> 00:48:49,653
Speaker 3: One is that you've got a lot of water and

788
00:48:49,693 --> 00:48:50,813
Speaker 3: a lot of hydroelectricity.

789
00:48:51,053 --> 00:48:54,373
Speaker 2: Well actually, actually you'd be surprised. A few months ago

790
00:48:54,453 --> 00:48:58,693
Speaker 2: we were very close to having blackouts instituted on us

791
00:49:00,853 --> 00:49:06,373
Speaker 2: and if it had got there is one private electrical

792
00:49:06,373 --> 00:49:09,413
Speaker 2: engineer who has had a lot of exper in this country.

793
00:49:10,093 --> 00:49:12,773
Speaker 2: Everyone knows who I'm talking about because he's been a

794
00:49:12,813 --> 00:49:15,733
Speaker 2: guest on the podcast on a number of occasions. He

795
00:49:15,813 --> 00:49:18,573
Speaker 2: has experienced from all over the world and he is

796
00:49:19,013 --> 00:49:22,293
Speaker 2: pretty much a leader in the field, and he thinks

797
00:49:22,333 --> 00:49:27,133
Speaker 2: that New Zealand's electricity supply is in very very grave

798
00:49:27,213 --> 00:49:31,533
Speaker 2: danger and there's some well it's being kept alive at

799
00:49:31,533 --> 00:49:33,373
Speaker 2: the moment my importing coal from Indonesia.

800
00:49:33,453 --> 00:49:35,933
Speaker 3: Dammit, well, there you go. There's a problem for you.

801
00:49:37,013 --> 00:49:39,573
Speaker 3: But I think, yeah, the thing about it is we

802
00:49:39,693 --> 00:49:42,533
Speaker 3: also need to bear in mind that our demand for

803
00:49:42,573 --> 00:49:46,373
Speaker 3: electricity is increasing and will continue to increase. We've already

804
00:49:46,413 --> 00:49:48,773
Speaker 3: mentioned reason part of the reason why that is, and

805
00:49:48,853 --> 00:49:55,853
Speaker 3: that's AI and computer storage, which has become massive pusher

806
00:49:55,933 --> 00:49:59,693
Speaker 3: of growth for energy demand across the world because that

807
00:49:59,893 --> 00:50:04,413
Speaker 3: demands such large amounts of electricity to store data and

808
00:50:04,453 --> 00:50:11,573
Speaker 3: to process AI, exponentially higher than normal computing. There's a

809
00:50:11,613 --> 00:50:14,573
Speaker 3: new data center actually just a few kilometers up the

810
00:50:14,613 --> 00:50:18,373
Speaker 3: road from me and Sydney drive past, and it is

811
00:50:18,493 --> 00:50:21,213
Speaker 3: the scale of it is massive, and right down the

812
00:50:21,253 --> 00:50:23,693
Speaker 3: side of it there is big it's probably about a

813
00:50:23,733 --> 00:50:26,973
Speaker 3: seven story high building you're can imagine, which is just

814
00:50:27,133 --> 00:50:32,213
Speaker 3: full of computer storage with these great air conditioning pipes

815
00:50:32,333 --> 00:50:34,333
Speaker 3: running on the outside because they need to be kept

816
00:50:34,373 --> 00:50:38,653
Speaker 3: cool the whole time. And they have diesel generators installed

817
00:50:39,293 --> 00:50:41,933
Speaker 3: as part of the thing, so that the normal electricity

818
00:50:41,973 --> 00:50:46,413
Speaker 3: supply goes down, they'll kicking diesel generators. So yeah, New

819
00:50:46,493 --> 00:50:49,453
Speaker 3: Zealand needs to be prepared for that because without data

820
00:50:49,493 --> 00:50:53,773
Speaker 3: storage and AI facilities close to the user, you can't

821
00:50:53,773 --> 00:50:56,933
Speaker 3: rely on this from overseas, you're going to be in trouble.

822
00:50:57,013 --> 00:50:59,613
Speaker 3: So that's one good reason why you probably should be

823
00:50:59,693 --> 00:51:04,013
Speaker 3: looking at a new solid source of power like nuclear

824
00:51:04,493 --> 00:51:07,013
Speaker 3: and with the new small modulary actors which I'll be

825
00:51:07,053 --> 00:51:10,853
Speaker 3: looking at in Canada, they may be a good solution

826
00:51:11,013 --> 00:51:13,253
Speaker 3: for parts of New Zealand away from the big cities.

827
00:51:13,333 --> 00:51:16,453
Speaker 2: Yes, I would think so, and I think more and

828
00:51:16,453 --> 00:51:20,053
Speaker 2: more people are realizing how desirable it's going to be. Now,

829
00:51:20,533 --> 00:51:23,493
Speaker 2: maybe we should end up with something that's near and

830
00:51:23,533 --> 00:51:26,493
Speaker 2: dear to both of us, and that's the media. Let

831
00:51:26,533 --> 00:51:29,453
Speaker 2: me give you a very quick brief on here on

832
00:51:29,533 --> 00:51:33,773
Speaker 2: the situation here. New Zealand's media is in trouble. There

833
00:51:33,813 --> 00:51:36,293
Speaker 2: have been a lot of job losses and they continue,

834
00:51:36,933 --> 00:51:43,973
Speaker 2: and there are mergings and there are foldings, and it's

835
00:51:44,013 --> 00:51:51,493
Speaker 2: not a good thing overall. But I've declared in different

836
00:51:51,573 --> 00:51:55,533
Speaker 2: circumstances that I have little sympathy for some of them

837
00:51:55,533 --> 00:51:57,973
Speaker 2: who are losing their jobs because of the stand that

838
00:51:58,053 --> 00:52:01,333
Speaker 2: they've taken over a lengthy period of time now, and

839
00:52:01,373 --> 00:52:06,773
Speaker 2: that is a stand of lockdown on subject matter. And

840
00:52:07,213 --> 00:52:10,293
Speaker 2: if you deprive, if you deprive a very large section

841
00:52:10,373 --> 00:52:13,573
Speaker 2: of the community from having their being able to read

842
00:52:14,773 --> 00:52:19,253
Speaker 2: matters that concern them, that they're interested in your newspaper

843
00:52:19,373 --> 00:52:21,933
Speaker 2: or on your television screen or wherever it might be,

844
00:52:22,533 --> 00:52:26,133
Speaker 2: then it serves you right because this has a this

845
00:52:26,173 --> 00:52:30,533
Speaker 2: has become a campaign against climate change, against COVID matters,

846
00:52:30,573 --> 00:52:33,893
Speaker 2: et cetera. And you have the same in Australia, but

847
00:52:33,973 --> 00:52:35,333
Speaker 2: you don't have the same restrictions.

848
00:52:35,653 --> 00:52:39,973
Speaker 3: No, well, no, generally that'll be true. But it is

849
00:52:40,453 --> 00:52:44,813
Speaker 3: about we have a very competitive, beautifully competitive media system,

850
00:52:44,853 --> 00:52:48,133
Speaker 3: now more competitive than ever. I mean the barriers rentry

851
00:52:48,653 --> 00:52:51,933
Speaker 3: are much lower, but the amount of competition is much higher.

852
00:52:52,013 --> 00:52:54,573
Speaker 3: So you have to change your model. And that that's

853
00:52:54,653 --> 00:53:00,093
Speaker 3: been happening in Australia. It meant some most media companies

854
00:53:00,093 --> 00:53:04,213
Speaker 3: have had to slim down, become more efficient, be what

855
00:53:04,253 --> 00:53:06,613
Speaker 3: they're doing, look at what they're doing, work out how

856
00:53:06,613 --> 00:53:10,453
Speaker 3: they can do it better. So in that sense, that's

857
00:53:10,493 --> 00:53:13,093
Speaker 3: been happening probably for twenty years, but increasingly in the

858
00:53:13,133 --> 00:53:17,093
Speaker 3: last ten years. And what you've seen is that companies

859
00:53:17,133 --> 00:53:22,413
Speaker 3: that do adapt are surviving and will thrive, and those

860
00:53:22,453 --> 00:53:25,453
Speaker 3: who just stick by the old model, won they'll go

861
00:53:25,493 --> 00:53:29,333
Speaker 3: out in the back door. So it's capitalism really, it's

862
00:53:29,413 --> 00:53:32,813
Speaker 3: raw capitalism in the end, the fundamental thing you put

863
00:53:32,853 --> 00:53:37,293
Speaker 3: your finger on it. Unless you provide people with something

864
00:53:37,333 --> 00:53:40,653
Speaker 3: they can't get elsewhere that's really precious to them and valuable,

865
00:53:41,173 --> 00:53:44,693
Speaker 3: they're not going to put their credit card across across

866
00:53:44,933 --> 00:53:47,933
Speaker 3: online and pay for the content because they'll just suck

867
00:53:48,013 --> 00:53:53,293
Speaker 3: up yours and other free content along the same lines

868
00:53:53,693 --> 00:53:57,133
Speaker 3: quite easily. It's very easy to pick up commentary from

869
00:53:57,173 --> 00:54:01,573
Speaker 3: the left for nothing but good solid conservative commentary. Well

870
00:54:01,573 --> 00:54:04,133
Speaker 3: we should be we should be asking people to pay

871
00:54:04,133 --> 00:54:06,413
Speaker 3: for that because it's valuable to them, and we are

872
00:54:06,453 --> 00:54:10,773
Speaker 3: increasingly know The Australian now is behind a pay wall.

873
00:54:10,813 --> 00:54:15,973
Speaker 3: It's very hard to yeah, and quite rightly so, I

874
00:54:15,973 --> 00:54:17,973
Speaker 3: mean I write for the Australian and they do send

875
00:54:17,973 --> 00:54:22,093
Speaker 3: me a small rebiddance every every month, so that's that's

876
00:54:22,173 --> 00:54:25,333
Speaker 3: important you. I mean, if you're a chocolate factory saying

877
00:54:25,453 --> 00:54:28,053
Speaker 3: you decided, oh, we don't want to put our chocolate

878
00:54:28,093 --> 00:54:30,373
Speaker 3: behind a paywall, you'd be nuts, right. So it's the

879
00:54:30,413 --> 00:54:33,693
Speaker 3: same with news, but the quality of that news has

880
00:54:33,733 --> 00:54:38,413
Speaker 3: to be good and reliable and trustworthy. Otherwise you won't

881
00:54:38,693 --> 00:54:41,293
Speaker 3: be able to build a business out of it. But

882
00:54:41,733 --> 00:54:43,493
Speaker 3: there is there is a way out in the other side.

883
00:54:43,533 --> 00:54:47,013
Speaker 3: I think New Zealand's abiding problem is the size and

884
00:54:47,453 --> 00:54:51,013
Speaker 3: the size of the market. It's it's very difficult to

885
00:54:51,093 --> 00:54:54,133
Speaker 3: make something work on that scale.

886
00:54:54,773 --> 00:54:56,373
Speaker 2: Yeah, and I think there are more people who would

887
00:54:56,373 --> 00:54:59,053
Speaker 2: agree with you now than I would have in the

888
00:54:59,213 --> 00:55:03,733
Speaker 2: in the past. But there's a sector of the of

889
00:55:03,813 --> 00:55:06,653
Speaker 2: the media that I want to raise with you, and

890
00:55:06,733 --> 00:55:12,973
Speaker 2: that is journalism in the essay form. And you write

891
00:55:13,013 --> 00:55:16,813
Speaker 2: for You've been flitting about quite a bit lately. Actually,

892
00:55:17,173 --> 00:55:22,213
Speaker 2: you've expanded your environment. You write for The Australian. You

893
00:55:22,253 --> 00:55:28,613
Speaker 2: are writing now for Quadrant magazine, which has undergone management

894
00:55:28,733 --> 00:55:32,973
Speaker 2: change and an overhaul. I don't know that I've seen

895
00:55:33,573 --> 00:55:36,093
Speaker 2: your name too many times in Spectator though.

896
00:55:37,773 --> 00:55:39,573
Speaker 3: No, I haven't writen for Spectator for a while. It's

897
00:55:39,613 --> 00:55:42,293
Speaker 3: just time, really, I'd love to. It's a great publication,

898
00:55:42,453 --> 00:55:45,893
Speaker 3: but Quadrant. I should, at a matter of disclosure, say

899
00:55:45,893 --> 00:55:48,213
Speaker 3: that the editor of the new editor of Quadrant is

900
00:55:48,213 --> 00:55:54,493
Speaker 3: my wife, Rebecca Weiser, So my opinion of Quadrants altered

901
00:55:54,533 --> 00:55:58,493
Speaker 3: by that. But it is a very it's been going

902
00:55:58,533 --> 00:56:03,853
Speaker 3: since nineteen fifty six. It's a very very solid publication

903
00:56:04,013 --> 00:56:07,973
Speaker 3: that's always been firmly aligned on the size of side

904
00:56:07,973 --> 00:56:12,173
Speaker 3: of free. It started out the Cold War, you know,

905
00:56:12,253 --> 00:56:16,733
Speaker 3: fighting the communist nonsense, and now it's fighting the woke nonsense.

906
00:56:16,813 --> 00:56:21,773
Speaker 3: So but it drives debate a lot and helps influence

907
00:56:21,813 --> 00:56:25,733
Speaker 3: the debate, and I'm very committed to Quadrant to see

908
00:56:25,733 --> 00:56:29,533
Speaker 3: it expand and grow to a new audience. And I'm

909
00:56:29,613 --> 00:56:31,373
Speaker 3: very happy to write for it because to write those

910
00:56:31,373 --> 00:56:34,093
Speaker 3: longer form pieces, you know, it allows you to do

911
00:56:34,173 --> 00:56:35,933
Speaker 3: more in an article than you will just in a

912
00:56:35,973 --> 00:56:39,373
Speaker 3: normal newspaper column. And this is a lot of that

913
00:56:39,453 --> 00:56:42,213
Speaker 3: stuff around as you know, I mean on substack also

914
00:56:42,373 --> 00:56:46,653
Speaker 3: right on Substack, and that's a thriving environment now for

915
00:56:47,813 --> 00:56:49,693
Speaker 3: really good journalism as well as.

916
00:56:49,653 --> 00:56:52,573
Speaker 2: I've watched it expand over here too in the I've

917
00:56:52,573 --> 00:56:56,373
Speaker 2: had two substect writers on the podcast in the last

918
00:56:56,373 --> 00:56:56,933
Speaker 2: six months.

919
00:56:57,613 --> 00:57:00,213
Speaker 3: Well that's I mean, that's the way forward, isn't it.

920
00:57:00,253 --> 00:57:03,013
Speaker 3: For a country like New Zealand. You don't have the

921
00:57:03,053 --> 00:57:05,253
Speaker 3: barriers for entry in that you've got to fire up

922
00:57:05,253 --> 00:57:08,813
Speaker 3: a printing press, but you can reach a reasonably size

923
00:57:08,853 --> 00:57:12,973
Speaker 3: audience on there and you have nobody's sensors here. Really,

924
00:57:13,053 --> 00:57:16,053
Speaker 3: you know, there's nobody your sense of yourself. You're your

925
00:57:16,093 --> 00:57:20,573
Speaker 3: own editor, and the readers decide whether you're you're worth

926
00:57:20,613 --> 00:57:22,493
Speaker 3: reading or not, and whether they're going to pay for

927
00:57:22,533 --> 00:57:27,493
Speaker 3: you or subscribe to you in some other way and

928
00:57:27,653 --> 00:57:31,773
Speaker 3: keep the thing going. So Substacks, you know, Substack and

929
00:57:31,813 --> 00:57:35,413
Speaker 3: other sort of similar platforms, I think a great success.

930
00:57:35,453 --> 00:57:37,493
Speaker 3: And I think, you know, as we've been talking for

931
00:57:37,533 --> 00:57:40,453
Speaker 3: some time, I think there is great scope to have

932
00:57:40,853 --> 00:57:45,413
Speaker 3: one of the Australian digital networks like ADHTV, which I'm

933
00:57:45,453 --> 00:57:49,653
Speaker 3: attached to, really start growing its market in New Zealand too.

934
00:57:49,773 --> 00:57:52,373
Speaker 3: Whenever we run something on New Zealand on eighty h

935
00:57:52,493 --> 00:57:55,693
Speaker 3: you know, now and then I might interview somebody yourself.

936
00:57:55,733 --> 00:57:59,853
Speaker 3: Even we get a huge pick up in audience, and

937
00:57:59,893 --> 00:58:02,733
Speaker 3: most of that from your side of the tasmum because

938
00:58:02,733 --> 00:58:05,893
Speaker 3: there is a hunger there. So there are ways around this.

939
00:58:06,133 --> 00:58:07,453
Speaker 3: I mean, I doubt if you're ever going to have

940
00:58:07,533 --> 00:58:13,013
Speaker 3: a competitive center right newspaper come out daily on the streets,

941
00:58:14,533 --> 00:58:18,933
Speaker 3: but that's not the way people consume news. For instance, yesterday,

942
00:58:19,133 --> 00:58:22,133
Speaker 3: only yesterday, when I arrived in Dallas and I had

943
00:58:22,253 --> 00:58:24,693
Speaker 3: nine hours to kill at the airport. You wouldn't believe

944
00:58:24,733 --> 00:58:28,693
Speaker 3: how hard it was in an airport, a major airport,

945
00:58:28,733 --> 00:58:32,493
Speaker 3: to find a printed newspaper. I did find one eventually.

946
00:58:33,493 --> 00:58:34,573
Speaker 2: Which one was it?

947
00:58:34,653 --> 00:58:38,453
Speaker 3: Well, I got the I got the Wall Street Journal

948
00:58:38,493 --> 00:58:41,733
Speaker 3: in the New York Times and the Dallastribute is at

949
00:58:41,773 --> 00:58:46,253
Speaker 3: the local Dallas paper and they cost me between them,

950
00:58:46,253 --> 00:58:49,973
Speaker 3: they cost me fifteen US puck. That's clearly not the

951
00:58:49,973 --> 00:58:52,813
Speaker 3: way most people consume the media. Now I'm just some

952
00:58:53,013 --> 00:58:55,613
Speaker 3: old fogy who likes to sit down and turn pages.

953
00:58:56,093 --> 00:58:58,893
Speaker 2: Well, I joined you in that. And one of the

954
00:58:58,933 --> 00:59:02,733
Speaker 2: privileges of being in Sydney at any given time is

955
00:59:03,373 --> 00:59:06,533
Speaker 2: to take coffee and a cave or breakfast in a

956
00:59:06,573 --> 00:59:10,893
Speaker 2: cafe where there's usually a bunch of newspapers to read

957
00:59:11,253 --> 00:59:14,373
Speaker 2: for free. There's still four newspapers in Sydney.

958
00:59:14,933 --> 00:59:19,093
Speaker 3: Well yeah, I mean, and the Australian. It finds its

959
00:59:19,173 --> 00:59:23,173
Speaker 3: print edition is very important to its business. I mean

960
00:59:23,173 --> 00:59:27,693
Speaker 3: it's costly, Sure, it's costly, but the market for it

961
00:59:27,773 --> 00:59:31,373
Speaker 3: isn't going away because I think there's something there's just

962
00:59:31,413 --> 00:59:35,573
Speaker 3: something different about the way you consume news from a

963
00:59:35,573 --> 00:59:39,133
Speaker 3: printed newspaper from online. And one of the big things

964
00:59:39,173 --> 00:59:42,013
Speaker 3: is that you come across unexpected things in the printed

965
00:59:42,053 --> 00:59:46,213
Speaker 3: newspaper much more frequently that you come across anything unexpected

966
00:59:46,253 --> 00:59:49,093
Speaker 3: and online where you tend to go down a channel

967
00:59:49,133 --> 00:59:52,413
Speaker 3: and look at this and then a related article maybe

968
00:59:52,413 --> 00:59:54,893
Speaker 3: you turn the page and you'll go, oh, that's interesting.

969
00:59:54,973 --> 00:59:55,213
Speaker 1: You know.

970
00:59:55,333 --> 01:00:00,453
Speaker 3: I didn't know that, you know. So yeah, I think

971
01:00:00,853 --> 01:00:03,093
Speaker 3: they're going to be around for a fair bit longer.

972
01:00:03,773 --> 01:00:06,533
Speaker 3: I wouldn't like to say how long, but they will.

973
01:00:06,293 --> 01:00:10,293
Speaker 2: Be indeed, and that draws us I think to a close.

974
01:00:10,693 --> 01:00:16,373
Speaker 2: It has been has been a pleasure. Well, having a chat.

975
01:00:16,613 --> 01:00:18,893
Speaker 3: Exactly a joy is ever. And as I'm in the

976
01:00:19,053 --> 01:00:22,733
Speaker 3: United States, I should wish you happy holidays and happy Thanksgiving.

977
01:00:24,653 --> 01:00:26,933
Speaker 3: But more than that, you know, thanks again for all

978
01:00:28,053 --> 01:00:31,373
Speaker 3: you do on your podcast over the years late and

979
01:00:31,453 --> 01:00:33,413
Speaker 3: it's one of the ones that I've always got on

980
01:00:33,453 --> 01:00:35,693
Speaker 3: my regular search when I go to listen to something

981
01:00:35,733 --> 01:00:37,493
Speaker 3: at the weekend. So keep it up.

982
01:00:37,933 --> 01:00:41,293
Speaker 2: It's going to run a bit longer. So there is

983
01:00:41,333 --> 01:00:43,133
Speaker 2: this one more thing I wanted to clarify though you

984
01:00:43,173 --> 01:00:47,093
Speaker 2: mentioned ADH. Can you just tell everybody what ADH is?

985
01:00:48,173 --> 01:00:51,173
Speaker 3: Yeah, eighty h stands for Australian Digital Holdings and it's

986
01:00:51,213 --> 01:00:56,173
Speaker 3: really a startup television station that began online and through

987
01:00:56,173 --> 01:01:01,373
Speaker 3: and up about three years ago and is just really

988
01:01:01,413 --> 01:01:05,973
Speaker 3: now beginning to take off. We've got some new studios,

989
01:01:06,013 --> 01:01:09,093
Speaker 3: for instance in Sydney which used to belong to Channel

990
01:01:09,173 --> 01:01:12,173
Speaker 3: nine where they used to do their cooking shows. So

991
01:01:13,173 --> 01:01:16,173
Speaker 3: there's actually a whole kitchen at one end of the

992
01:01:16,213 --> 01:01:20,773
Speaker 3: studio which we cover up and a sort of a

993
01:01:20,853 --> 01:01:23,853
Speaker 3: smell of stale food. It's quite an unusual place, but

994
01:01:23,853 --> 01:01:27,253
Speaker 3: it's a probably a quick studio, and it shows the

995
01:01:27,253 --> 01:01:30,053
Speaker 3: fact that the old networks like nine are now struggling

996
01:01:30,053 --> 01:01:33,893
Speaker 3: and then closing down facilities, and people like us are

997
01:01:33,893 --> 01:01:36,373
Speaker 3: snapping them up because our audience is growing and we're

998
01:01:36,373 --> 01:01:38,933
Speaker 3: finding ways to make them work online and we've got

999
01:01:39,693 --> 01:01:43,013
Speaker 3: great plans coming up for twenty twenty five. So eighty

1000
01:01:43,173 --> 01:01:45,613
Speaker 3: h Television if somebody wants to check it out. My

1001
01:01:45,693 --> 01:01:51,853
Speaker 3: show is called Reality by Ites and it's it's online too. Yeah, yeah, yeah, you.

1002
01:01:51,773 --> 01:01:55,773
Speaker 2: Can get it. I see that the lead personality is

1003
01:01:55,773 --> 01:01:57,213
Speaker 2: still the same, hasn't changed.

1004
01:01:58,893 --> 01:02:01,253
Speaker 3: Who's the guy? It may just be our websites out

1005
01:02:01,253 --> 01:02:04,693
Speaker 3: of date. Alan Jones was with it, but he had,

1006
01:02:05,493 --> 01:02:09,293
Speaker 3: as you know, health issues and he's he hasn't been

1007
01:02:09,333 --> 01:02:12,453
Speaker 3: broadcasting for p a year or so, so we've got

1008
01:02:12,453 --> 01:02:14,893
Speaker 3: a whole news stable of people Christmas. It does a

1009
01:02:14,933 --> 01:02:19,773
Speaker 3: regular show. He's a former radio presenter. Here myself, Daisy

1010
01:02:19,853 --> 01:02:24,973
Speaker 3: Cousins and anyway worth checking it out. I think I'd

1011
01:02:25,053 --> 01:02:27,933
Speaker 3: be very surprised if you didn't find something worth watching

1012
01:02:28,013 --> 01:02:29,373
Speaker 3: on there, even if it's not my show.

1013
01:02:30,893 --> 01:02:34,493
Speaker 2: I'm sure I can say comfortably. Actually I can stay comfortably.

1014
01:02:34,533 --> 01:02:38,693
Speaker 2: Your show is worth watching, so appreciate it, Thank you,

1015
01:02:38,973 --> 01:02:41,813
Speaker 2: and I wish you were merry Christmas and a much

1016
01:02:41,893 --> 01:02:44,413
Speaker 2: better twenty twenty five. I don't care how good this

1017
01:02:44,453 --> 01:02:47,693
Speaker 2: one was. I want next to you to be better. Yes,

1018
01:02:47,853 --> 01:03:05,493
Speaker 2: let's hope, Thanks late and all the very best, missus producer.

1019
01:03:05,533 --> 01:03:07,053
Speaker 2: It is one of the better days that we've had

1020
01:03:07,093 --> 01:03:11,773
Speaker 2: this season, so you must be feeling fantastically.

1021
01:03:10,813 --> 01:03:14,613
Speaker 4: Flesh Laton. I always feel fantastic, but today is the

1022
01:03:14,933 --> 01:03:17,293
Speaker 4: icing on top of the cake, isn't it beautiful? Let's

1023
01:03:17,333 --> 01:03:19,133
Speaker 4: hope there are many more of these days to come.

1024
01:03:19,333 --> 01:03:23,173
Speaker 2: Exactly, why don't I lead this week? Just for a change,

1025
01:03:23,613 --> 01:03:25,693
Speaker 2: It's no wonder to send her a durn labeled David

1026
01:03:25,693 --> 01:03:31,253
Speaker 2: Seymour an arrogant prick. David Seymour is a conviction politician,

1027
01:03:31,413 --> 01:03:34,573
Speaker 2: which makes him a great politician as he relentlessly fights

1028
01:03:34,573 --> 01:03:37,613
Speaker 2: for what he believes in. While a Dern believed in

1029
01:03:37,693 --> 01:03:42,053
Speaker 2: government controls, Seymour believed in individual freedoms. Personally, I have

1030
01:03:42,093 --> 01:03:45,013
Speaker 2: a love hate relationship with David Seymour. I love it

1031
01:03:45,053 --> 01:03:47,333
Speaker 2: when he fights for what I believe in, such as

1032
01:03:47,373 --> 01:03:50,693
Speaker 2: the Treaty Principles Bill. I hate it when he fights

1033
01:03:50,693 --> 01:03:53,573
Speaker 2: against what I believe in, such as his use in

1034
01:03:53,653 --> 01:03:57,093
Speaker 2: Asia Bill. He is a great ally to have, but

1035
01:03:57,173 --> 01:04:00,573
Speaker 2: he also makes a ruthless opponent. Despite that, I preferred

1036
01:04:00,613 --> 01:04:04,493
Speaker 2: David Seymour over Chris luxm because, as a conviction politician,

1037
01:04:04,853 --> 01:04:07,853
Speaker 2: Seymour is willing to tackle what really matters and doesn't

1038
01:04:07,853 --> 01:04:11,733
Speaker 2: pussy for. Like Luxan, David Seymour joins the ranks of

1039
01:04:11,773 --> 01:04:16,853
Speaker 2: what Ramesh the Kerr calls creative disruptors. Creative disruptors are

1040
01:04:16,893 --> 01:04:21,533
Speaker 2: people like Trump in the US, Maloney in Italy, Milay

1041
01:04:21,653 --> 01:04:25,933
Speaker 2: in Argentina, Polaver in Canada, and Farage in the UK.

1042
01:04:26,893 --> 01:04:30,773
Speaker 2: Creative disruptors are the only kind of leaders who can

1043
01:04:30,853 --> 01:04:34,973
Speaker 2: successfully wage war on woke. The Treaty Principal's Bill is

1044
01:04:35,013 --> 01:04:38,093
Speaker 2: to New Zealand what the First Amendment is to the

1045
01:04:38,213 --> 01:04:42,493
Speaker 2: United States. It's all about equal rights and freedoms for

1046
01:04:42,533 --> 01:04:46,613
Speaker 2: all citizens, regardless of skin color. In fact, this issue

1047
01:04:46,813 --> 01:04:49,173
Speaker 2: is so important to me that I will vote for

1048
01:04:49,213 --> 01:04:51,573
Speaker 2: the act Party if they end up being the only

1049
01:04:51,653 --> 01:04:56,413
Speaker 2: party willing to die on this hill. Soldier on, David Seymour,

1050
01:04:56,733 --> 01:04:59,333
Speaker 2: We're with you on the Treaty Principle's Bill.

1051
01:04:59,613 --> 01:05:03,333
Speaker 4: Leyton Tim says, thank you for your interesting and enlightening

1052
01:05:03,413 --> 01:05:07,733
Speaker 4: chat with David Seymour with regard to the Treaty Principal's Bill,

1053
01:05:08,333 --> 01:05:09,813
Speaker 4: I have to say I haven't been a fan of

1054
01:05:09,853 --> 01:05:13,133
Speaker 4: mister Seymour since his stance on the COVID vaccine. But

1055
01:05:13,293 --> 01:05:16,573
Speaker 4: not everyone is perfect, and he has redeemed himself lately

1056
01:05:16,773 --> 01:05:21,013
Speaker 4: with his backbone under relentless pressure from the activist class,

1057
01:05:21,493 --> 01:05:26,773
Speaker 4: gutless politicians, and the activist legacy media. But I repeat

1058
01:05:26,813 --> 01:05:30,813
Speaker 4: myself as a National Party activist for nearly forty years

1059
01:05:30,853 --> 01:05:34,413
Speaker 4: and now in exile, I'm extremely disappointed in the current

1060
01:05:34,533 --> 01:05:39,333
Speaker 4: leadership at both political and organizational levels that are too

1061
01:05:39,493 --> 01:05:43,253
Speaker 4: focused on not creating offense and being labor light in

1062
01:05:43,293 --> 01:05:45,773
Speaker 4: case they get off side with someone for a so

1063
01:05:45,893 --> 01:05:48,893
Speaker 4: called Christian Luxen has weak on issues that middle of

1064
01:05:48,933 --> 01:05:52,733
Speaker 4: the road Christians and non Christians alike are concerned about.

1065
01:05:53,453 --> 01:05:55,813
Speaker 4: Why Luxon and others are afraid of standing up for

1066
01:05:55,853 --> 01:05:58,893
Speaker 4: one standard of citizenship and for standing up to issues

1067
01:05:58,973 --> 01:06:02,773
Speaker 4: such as the transgender nonsense is beyond me. It was

1068
01:06:02,813 --> 01:06:07,933
Speaker 4: a winner for Trump. Your semi regular retired National MP

1069
01:06:08,133 --> 01:06:11,853
Speaker 4: corrrespondent was again on the money with his letter last week.

1070
01:06:12,293 --> 01:06:15,213
Speaker 4: I believe National needs to look across the Tasman and

1071
01:06:15,253 --> 01:06:19,213
Speaker 4: see how Peter Dutton has been differentiating the Coalition from

1072
01:06:19,293 --> 01:06:22,293
Speaker 4: Labor and see what happens when you stand up for something.

1073
01:06:23,013 --> 01:06:25,733
Speaker 4: I'm of the opinion that Dutton will be Australian Prime

1074
01:06:25,773 --> 01:06:28,893
Speaker 4: Minister in twenty twenty five with the Labor Party being

1075
01:06:28,933 --> 01:06:31,933
Speaker 4: a one term government. I could go on, but that

1076
01:06:32,013 --> 01:06:34,893
Speaker 4: will be a letter for another day. Please keep up

1077
01:06:34,933 --> 01:06:37,973
Speaker 4: your excellent work late and I wish you, missus producer

1078
01:06:38,013 --> 01:06:40,333
Speaker 4: and your family all the best for Christmas.

1079
01:06:40,533 --> 01:06:41,293
Speaker 2: Ensure your break.

1080
01:06:41,533 --> 01:06:42,093
Speaker 3: It's lovely.

1081
01:06:42,173 --> 01:06:45,613
Speaker 2: Thank you, Tim, Tim appreciate it very much, and likewise

1082
01:06:45,653 --> 01:06:51,813
Speaker 2: to you from Rick. It was very small print. I

1083
01:06:51,893 --> 01:06:55,773
Speaker 2: may stumble enjoyed your interview with David Seymour today. Last

1084
01:06:55,773 --> 01:06:59,733
Speaker 2: week I sent the below letter to Luxelm. I'm sure

1085
01:06:59,773 --> 01:07:01,973
Speaker 2: that you will like it, and I'm happy for you

1086
01:07:02,053 --> 01:07:05,773
Speaker 2: to read it out if you wish so, without having

1087
01:07:05,813 --> 01:07:11,333
Speaker 2: actually read it. Let's read it out, High Prime Minister. Oh,

1088
01:07:11,973 --> 01:07:15,573
Speaker 2: not formal enough. I am appalled you are tolerant of

1089
01:07:15,573 --> 01:07:18,733
Speaker 2: a small minority of married activists that are taking over

1090
01:07:18,773 --> 01:07:23,333
Speaker 2: our country. They do not represent real Marie Kiwis. What

1091
01:07:23,493 --> 01:07:27,093
Speaker 2: happened in Parliament was appalling and should never have been allowed.

1092
01:07:27,693 --> 01:07:31,293
Speaker 2: These clowns do not speak for Mary and they certainly

1093
01:07:31,293 --> 01:07:34,693
Speaker 2: do not speak for me. Man up. These radicals are

1094
01:07:34,733 --> 01:07:37,533
Speaker 2: destroying our beautiful country and you, sir, are allowing it.

1095
01:07:38,013 --> 01:07:41,013
Speaker 2: You are being wimpy at best. You are making and

1096
01:07:41,093 --> 01:07:44,573
Speaker 2: allowing these racist people to divide New Zealand, and you

1097
01:07:44,653 --> 01:07:49,013
Speaker 2: are making the majority of Kiwi's become unnecessarily racist. This

1098
01:07:49,373 --> 01:07:53,373
Speaker 2: is evil. I have been informed by a person who

1099
01:07:53,493 --> 01:07:56,213
Speaker 2: had to clean up the mess on a number of

1100
01:07:56,333 --> 01:07:59,813
Speaker 2: rail stations as a result of this protest. These activist

1101
01:07:59,893 --> 01:08:03,053
Speaker 2: Maris have no regard or respect for property belonging to

1102
01:08:03,093 --> 01:08:07,213
Speaker 2: the public or anybody but have or anybody but have

1103
01:08:07,533 --> 01:08:10,093
Speaker 2: trashed it with them rubbish and beer bottles. I have

1104
01:08:10,173 --> 01:08:15,213
Speaker 2: seen the photos just outright vandalism on the stations where

1105
01:08:15,253 --> 01:08:18,293
Speaker 2: they have been sleeping as well. They don't care. But

1106
01:08:18,413 --> 01:08:20,853
Speaker 2: what is more important is the government does not care,

1107
01:08:21,053 --> 01:08:24,173
Speaker 2: and the media is feeding us rubbish and not telling

1108
01:08:24,253 --> 01:08:28,173
Speaker 2: us the truth of what is really going down. Highways

1109
01:08:28,173 --> 01:08:32,573
Speaker 2: being blocked and people people's cars being poked with their flags, etc.

1110
01:08:33,453 --> 01:08:37,293
Speaker 2: Prime Minister, wake up, we'll remember the next election. Just as

1111
01:08:37,293 --> 01:08:39,613
Speaker 2: an aside, you are saying that there are two classes

1112
01:08:39,653 --> 01:08:42,413
Speaker 2: of Kiwi's Mary and non Mary, and the mary have

1113
01:08:42,453 --> 01:08:45,573
Speaker 2: special rights. That is racism, separatism apart eid.

1114
01:08:45,613 --> 01:08:46,093
Speaker 3: Wake up.

1115
01:08:46,373 --> 01:08:48,133
Speaker 2: I don't want to live in a country like this.

1116
01:08:49,053 --> 01:08:52,013
Speaker 2: From Rick, she'd say it as he feels.

1117
01:08:53,693 --> 01:08:57,173
Speaker 4: Later, Nicki says many thanks for your podcast this week

1118
01:08:57,173 --> 01:09:00,053
Speaker 4: with David Seymour. Great timing for those of us who

1119
01:09:00,053 --> 01:09:03,893
Speaker 4: intend to make a submission. First up, I disagree with

1120
01:09:04,013 --> 01:09:07,813
Speaker 4: David's ambivalence on our country's name. In our circle, we're

1121
01:09:08,053 --> 01:09:10,813
Speaker 4: off and found correcting the news media on their use

1122
01:09:10,813 --> 01:09:14,293
Speaker 4: of out here are New Zealand, we shout into the abyss.

1123
01:09:14,853 --> 01:09:18,853
Speaker 4: The second is his term fucker putiah hey fucker butanga

1124
01:09:19,333 --> 01:09:24,973
Speaker 4: Heyfukaputanga was the Minority Northern Chiefs Initiative which was never ratified,

1125
01:09:25,133 --> 01:09:28,893
Speaker 4: nor did it prevent further into tribal warfare. It was

1126
01:09:28,933 --> 01:09:33,733
Speaker 4: superseded by the treaty five years later. Third, the representation

1127
01:09:33,973 --> 01:09:38,373
Speaker 4: question MMP is in Therefore race based seats are out

1128
01:09:38,573 --> 01:09:41,293
Speaker 4: both act in New Zealand first or in general agreement.

1129
01:09:41,773 --> 01:09:46,213
Speaker 4: Perhaps National could grow a democratic spine. Lastly, David's expressed

1130
01:09:46,213 --> 01:09:48,933
Speaker 4: a view that the National Party has more important things

1131
01:09:48,973 --> 01:09:52,613
Speaker 4: to worry about, like the economy, than correcting fifty years

1132
01:09:52,653 --> 01:09:55,733
Speaker 4: of mistruths, which resulted in the establishment of the co

1133
01:09:55,893 --> 01:10:01,493
Speaker 4: Governance Partnership. Thee for cultural engagement. Is this political expediency

1134
01:10:01,573 --> 01:10:06,053
Speaker 4: towards the next election or satire? New Zealand's EWE already

1135
01:10:06,173 --> 01:10:09,213
Speaker 4: have a seventy billion dollar economy of their own. Perhaps

1136
01:10:09,213 --> 01:10:13,093
Speaker 4: it is time they contributed corporate bracket taxes and refunded

1137
01:10:13,173 --> 01:10:17,933
Speaker 4: extortionate engagement fees that would aid our economy. Aren't we

1138
01:10:18,013 --> 01:10:20,933
Speaker 4: all equal citizens under the treaty and not partners in

1139
01:10:20,973 --> 01:10:26,773
Speaker 4: our constitutional monarchy? What is it called when welfare becomes wealthfare?

1140
01:10:27,613 --> 01:10:29,493
Speaker 4: Interesting times? Says Nicki.

1141
01:10:30,373 --> 01:10:34,373
Speaker 2: It is interesting times all over. Change of subject from

1142
01:10:34,733 --> 01:10:38,773
Speaker 2: George editing Nuclear and New Zealand just doesn't go together.

1143
01:10:38,933 --> 01:10:43,493
Speaker 2: Quote unquote so says Paul Beck, New Zealand Herald at

1144
01:10:43,533 --> 01:10:47,453
Speaker 2: twenty eight eleven twenty four. The question of whether it

1145
01:10:47,653 --> 01:10:51,053
Speaker 2: was appropriate to establish a nuclear waste facility on a

1146
01:10:51,173 --> 01:10:55,733
Speaker 2: site without notifying neighboring property owners is valid. However, for

1147
01:10:55,813 --> 01:10:58,973
Speaker 2: Beck to say that we should shun anything nuclear is

1148
01:10:59,013 --> 01:11:03,613
Speaker 2: simply folly. Nuclear technology plays a significant role in modern medicine,

1149
01:11:03,653 --> 01:11:08,333
Speaker 2: including some cancer treatments and in providing scans for diagnon

1150
01:11:08,413 --> 01:11:11,733
Speaker 2: nosing a raft of medical conditions. The development of this

1151
01:11:11,773 --> 01:11:15,773
Speaker 2: technology in recent decades has saved many lives and has

1152
01:11:15,853 --> 01:11:19,493
Speaker 2: delivered the quality of life to countless patients which would

1153
01:11:19,733 --> 01:11:24,813
Speaker 2: not have been possible otherwise. Current research in nuclear technology

1154
01:11:25,013 --> 01:11:30,173
Speaker 2: is also providing solutions for future electricity needs as demands

1155
01:11:30,293 --> 01:11:35,453
Speaker 2: for more capacity grows worldwide. Some will agree that anything

1156
01:11:35,533 --> 01:11:38,733
Speaker 2: nuclear should be avoided at all costs. So are we

1157
01:11:38,773 --> 01:11:41,293
Speaker 2: to bury our heads in the sand and deny ourselves

1158
01:11:41,373 --> 01:11:45,813
Speaker 2: the considerable advantages of technological progress? Or shall we get

1159
01:11:45,853 --> 01:11:50,613
Speaker 2: over our irrational paranoia of all things nuclear? George, I

1160
01:11:50,613 --> 01:11:54,613
Speaker 2: think I agree with you wholeheartedly pretty much. I'll tell

1161
01:11:54,613 --> 01:11:58,733
Speaker 2: you what bothers me elsewhere in this podcast. I've may

1162
01:11:59,213 --> 01:12:03,213
Speaker 2: mention of people leaving the country going to Australia. I

1163
01:12:03,213 --> 01:12:05,973
Speaker 2: am concerned that the country's IQ is dropping like a

1164
01:12:06,053 --> 01:12:06,773
Speaker 2: rock at the moment.

1165
01:12:09,893 --> 01:12:12,933
Speaker 4: Leighton Stephen says, thank you for interviewing David Seymour for

1166
01:12:13,053 --> 01:12:16,453
Speaker 4: yesterday's podcast. I gave act my party vote because I

1167
01:12:16,493 --> 01:12:21,093
Speaker 4: wanted them to deal with this chaotic situation with the treaty. However,

1168
01:12:21,213 --> 01:12:23,653
Speaker 4: David lost more than a few points from me when

1169
01:12:23,653 --> 01:12:26,973
Speaker 4: he stated his ambivalence about the name of this country.

1170
01:12:27,373 --> 01:12:29,933
Speaker 4: It has been New Zealand since the time of Abel Tasman.

1171
01:12:30,053 --> 01:12:32,373
Speaker 4: It was not the British who named the place, and

1172
01:12:32,453 --> 01:12:36,453
Speaker 4: to even contemplate changing the name at all is not acceptable.

1173
01:12:36,973 --> 01:12:39,933
Speaker 4: The name of a country is the label of its soul.

1174
01:12:40,213 --> 01:12:43,093
Speaker 4: It is not something to be flippant about. While I

1175
01:12:43,133 --> 01:12:45,813
Speaker 4: have a lot of respect and regard for David, his

1176
01:12:45,973 --> 01:12:49,893
Speaker 4: las a fair attitude towards the name brings into question

1177
01:12:50,053 --> 01:12:53,933
Speaker 4: his commitment to his other policies. I enjoy your podcast,

1178
01:12:54,013 --> 01:12:55,333
Speaker 4: says Stephen, thank you.

1179
01:12:56,133 --> 01:12:59,813
Speaker 2: He lost a few points on that commentary. We got

1180
01:12:59,813 --> 01:13:02,813
Speaker 2: more mail on it, but we can't read it all.

1181
01:13:03,253 --> 01:13:06,533
Speaker 2: You know, there is a thing called bracket creep. It's

1182
01:13:06,573 --> 01:13:09,453
Speaker 2: usually applied to Texas. Tried to say this to him.

1183
01:13:09,853 --> 01:13:11,893
Speaker 2: I'm going to try and do it better now. But

1184
01:13:12,053 --> 01:13:15,853
Speaker 2: there is this thing called bracket creep, and if you're

1185
01:13:15,853 --> 01:13:20,213
Speaker 2: not aware of it, you get robbed. You know what

1186
01:13:20,213 --> 01:13:25,453
Speaker 2: I'm talking about, bracket creep inflation and you find yourself

1187
01:13:25,533 --> 01:13:29,693
Speaker 2: moving into higher tax brackets. Same principle with this, you

1188
01:13:29,733 --> 01:13:32,053
Speaker 2: will allow whatever creep it is. In this case it's

1189
01:13:32,573 --> 01:13:36,093
Speaker 2: racial creep. You're allowed to get a foothold, and before

1190
01:13:36,133 --> 01:13:37,973
Speaker 2: you know it, you're moving up the latter at a

1191
01:13:38,053 --> 01:13:41,733
Speaker 2: rate of knots. And that the longer you wait, the

1192
01:13:41,933 --> 01:13:44,493
Speaker 2: more difficult it is to rectify, as we are finding

1193
01:13:44,493 --> 01:13:49,453
Speaker 2: out now with the Treaty Principles Bill. Now from Allen. Now,

1194
01:13:49,493 --> 01:13:53,773
Speaker 2: this is actually written to me and separately to his

1195
01:13:53,853 --> 01:13:58,013
Speaker 2: own address to David Seymour. I want to congratulate Layton

1196
01:13:58,253 --> 01:14:03,813
Speaker 2: allowing David a lengthy, yet succinct, informative opening statement overview

1197
01:14:03,933 --> 01:14:07,333
Speaker 2: of salient points of New Zealand's constitutional history and podcast

1198
01:14:07,413 --> 01:14:11,773
Speaker 2: to sixty seven. David's comprehensive answer was both informative and apt.

1199
01:14:12,213 --> 01:14:14,893
Speaker 2: Unlike Layton admitted at the end of that answer, I

1200
01:14:14,933 --> 01:14:18,693
Speaker 2: believe all of us listening learnt at least a few

1201
01:14:18,733 --> 01:14:23,573
Speaker 2: facts previously likely unknown that's opening set the scene through

1202
01:14:23,573 --> 01:14:28,133
Speaker 2: a uniquely interesting podcast discussion, being catalyst by the introduction

1203
01:14:28,373 --> 01:14:31,213
Speaker 2: of the Principles of the Treaty of Whiteangi Bill twenty

1204
01:14:31,213 --> 01:14:35,213
Speaker 2: twenty four to the New Zealand Parliament by Coalition Partner Act.

1205
01:14:35,693 --> 01:14:40,053
Speaker 2: Whilst I suggest an alternative viewpoint see copy attached to

1206
01:14:40,133 --> 01:14:43,653
Speaker 2: my submission to the Parliamentary Select Committee hearing of submissions

1207
01:14:43,733 --> 01:14:46,893
Speaker 2: on the Bill. I commend you both on providing a

1208
01:14:46,933 --> 01:14:50,893
Speaker 2: most useful discussion session to listen to. But you get

1209
01:14:50,893 --> 01:14:52,973
Speaker 2: the picture. By the way, Allen's a lawyer.

1210
01:14:52,733 --> 01:14:52,893
Speaker 1: So.

1211
01:14:54,493 --> 01:14:55,613
Speaker 4: Knows what he's talking about.

1212
01:14:56,093 --> 01:14:58,933
Speaker 2: Well, not all lawyers, do you know? That's not that's

1213
01:14:58,973 --> 01:15:00,493
Speaker 2: a that's a whole lot of pot. I've got a

1214
01:15:00,533 --> 01:15:02,653
Speaker 2: reflection on Allen, but not all lawyers do.

1215
01:15:03,773 --> 01:15:05,493
Speaker 4: Leydon Brett, this is a lovely.

1216
01:15:05,333 --> 01:15:07,173
Speaker 2: So of them become judges even still don't.

1217
01:15:07,573 --> 01:15:10,253
Speaker 4: This is my final email and a lovely one to

1218
01:15:10,293 --> 01:15:13,693
Speaker 4: finish on. Brett says warm wishes to you both as

1219
01:15:13,773 --> 01:15:16,373
Speaker 4: you remind us another year will soon have passed in

1220
01:15:16,413 --> 01:15:21,013
Speaker 4: the lives of yourselves, guest contributors and listeners alike. Before

1221
01:15:21,053 --> 01:15:25,013
Speaker 4: I get further taken over by life's challenges and happenings

1222
01:15:25,613 --> 01:15:29,173
Speaker 4: that I may forget one simple task. I wish you

1223
01:15:29,213 --> 01:15:32,213
Speaker 4: a very merry Christmas and most happy New Year. Have

1224
01:15:32,293 --> 01:15:36,373
Speaker 4: a great, adventurous and rewarding year to come, a present

1225
01:15:36,413 --> 01:15:39,013
Speaker 4: which you get to unpack every day of your lives.

1226
01:15:39,573 --> 01:15:42,293
Speaker 4: You are indeed wealthy people in the journey and rich

1227
01:15:42,373 --> 01:15:45,293
Speaker 4: tapestry of life. Are wealth shared with those lives you

1228
01:15:45,373 --> 01:15:48,933
Speaker 4: touch upon and touch upon you. As I keep saying, Brett,

1229
01:15:48,973 --> 01:15:50,293
Speaker 4: it's nothing to do with me.

1230
01:15:50,453 --> 01:15:50,733
Speaker 3: I just.

1231
01:15:52,453 --> 01:15:54,733
Speaker 2: Sworn in every now and again. Well, I feel touched

1232
01:15:54,733 --> 01:15:56,333
Speaker 2: for both of us, and Brett.

1233
01:15:56,053 --> 01:15:58,533
Speaker 4: Says, by the grace of God, go I and us

1234
01:15:58,733 --> 01:16:01,933
Speaker 4: all have a wonderful break. Brett, thank you so much.

1235
01:16:02,093 --> 01:16:05,133
Speaker 4: It's really lovely of you. And merry Christmas and happy

1236
01:16:05,133 --> 01:16:05,973
Speaker 4: New Year to you too.

1237
01:16:06,173 --> 01:16:08,533
Speaker 2: Think you have a lovely break. We got a three

1238
01:16:08,533 --> 01:16:12,693
Speaker 2: months off or something? Or am I mistaken?

1239
01:16:14,173 --> 01:16:17,693
Speaker 4: You don't want three months off? You You'll be champing

1240
01:16:17,733 --> 01:16:20,933
Speaker 4: at the bit after about four weeks.

1241
01:16:20,893 --> 01:16:24,733
Speaker 2: You think, Okay, So we'll see you next week, Yes

1242
01:16:24,853 --> 01:16:30,053
Speaker 2: for the grand Final, Absolutely, yes, Tony astall look forward

1243
01:16:30,093 --> 01:16:49,413
Speaker 2: to that. Now. This segment comes in three different parts.

1244
01:16:49,973 --> 01:16:52,253
Speaker 2: We start with part one, which was a press release

1245
01:16:52,813 --> 01:16:56,893
Speaker 2: on Tuesday, of this week from ACT ACT is warning

1246
01:16:56,973 --> 01:17:00,893
Speaker 2: that new standards of competence for registered and enrolled nurses

1247
01:17:00,933 --> 01:17:04,853
Speaker 2: will distract from individual patient needs and make it harder

1248
01:17:04,893 --> 01:17:08,053
Speaker 2: to attract and retain nurses. The role of the nursing

1249
01:17:08,093 --> 01:17:10,773
Speaker 2: count is to protect the health and safety of the

1250
01:17:10,773 --> 01:17:14,613
Speaker 2: public and ensure nurses are competent and fit to practice,

1251
01:17:15,013 --> 01:17:18,013
Speaker 2: but new standards of competence set to be implemented on

1252
01:17:18,133 --> 01:17:23,053
Speaker 2: January twenty will veer the nursing profession badly off track,

1253
01:17:23,413 --> 01:17:28,293
Speaker 2: according to the ACT Health spokesperson Todd Stevenson. Stevenson goes further,

1254
01:17:28,973 --> 01:17:31,013
Speaker 2: Once upon a time, being a nurse was a matter

1255
01:17:31,053 --> 01:17:34,053
Speaker 2: of having the right skills and a kind heart. Now

1256
01:17:34,133 --> 01:17:36,893
Speaker 2: we're asking nurses to have the correct views on the

1257
01:17:36,893 --> 01:17:40,013
Speaker 2: Treaty of White Hangi and to make assumptions about patient's

1258
01:17:40,133 --> 01:17:44,133
Speaker 2: needs based on their ethnicity. The six planned pillars of

1259
01:17:44,213 --> 01:17:50,813
Speaker 2: competency for registered nurses are Mari health. Example, nurses must

1260
01:17:50,893 --> 01:17:56,813
Speaker 2: use terrao and incorporate tikangamari into practice. Number two Cultural safety.

1261
01:17:56,973 --> 01:17:59,973
Speaker 2: Nurses must be able to describe the impact of colonization

1262
01:18:00,253 --> 01:18:06,293
Speaker 2: and advocates for cultural and spiritual health. Part three A

1263
01:18:06,333 --> 01:18:08,973
Speaker 2: word that I can't pronounce going to get plenty of

1264
01:18:08,973 --> 01:18:11,213
Speaker 2: criticism from it. I haven't come across it before, but

1265
01:18:11,293 --> 01:18:13,133
Speaker 2: I'm going to. I'm not going to buger it up,

1266
01:18:13,173 --> 01:18:16,653
Speaker 2: so to speak. So it comes under the heading basically

1267
01:18:16,693 --> 01:18:21,893
Speaker 2: of communication. Example, nurses must use culturally appropriate communication in

1268
01:18:22,093 --> 01:18:28,613
Speaker 2: all interactions. Part four Evidence informed nursing practice. Nurses must

1269
01:18:28,613 --> 01:18:32,533
Speaker 2: support far our choice of alternative therapies, such as the

1270
01:18:32,653 --> 01:18:36,653
Speaker 2: use of wrongeye as herbal remedies and massage and spiritual healing.

1271
01:18:37,573 --> 01:18:43,293
Speaker 2: Number five. People centeredness. Nurses must integrate relational and FOCKERPAPA

1272
01:18:43,413 --> 01:18:46,813
Speaker 2: centered care to meet the needs of people and parno

1273
01:18:47,453 --> 01:18:50,573
Speaker 2: and leadership is number six. Nurses must support the constant

1274
01:18:50,573 --> 01:18:55,253
Speaker 2: assessment and improvement of sustainability practice or practice says so.

1275
01:18:55,333 --> 01:18:59,293
Speaker 2: Back to Todd Stevenson, rather than seeing patients as people

1276
01:18:59,693 --> 01:19:03,973
Speaker 2: with basic humanity and individual needs, nurses are being told

1277
01:19:04,013 --> 01:19:08,173
Speaker 2: to focus on their patient's ethnic identity. Clinical needs are

1278
01:19:08,333 --> 01:19:12,093
Speaker 2: sidelined in favor of a focus on the treaty, cultural safety,

1279
01:19:12,533 --> 01:19:16,453
Speaker 2: and even spiritual concerns. According to Stevenson, I have been

1280
01:19:16,493 --> 01:19:20,293
Speaker 2: contacted by nurses who are bewildered by the standards and

1281
01:19:20,373 --> 01:19:23,933
Speaker 2: are concerned they will be required to take extensive additional

1282
01:19:23,973 --> 01:19:28,213
Speaker 2: trainings when they would rather focus on improving individual nursing skills.

1283
01:19:29,053 --> 01:19:31,693
Speaker 2: You have to wonder how we're meant to attract overseas

1284
01:19:31,693 --> 01:19:36,493
Speaker 2: trained nurses when our bespoke local standards send the message

1285
01:19:36,573 --> 01:19:40,413
Speaker 2: that their skills and experience are not valued. Here on Monday,

1286
01:19:40,453 --> 01:19:42,693
Speaker 2: I wrote to the Minister of Health asking that he

1287
01:19:42,773 --> 01:19:46,693
Speaker 2: assess the impact of the proposed competencies. In fact, during

1288
01:19:46,733 --> 01:19:50,173
Speaker 2: the election campaign, Act propose giving the Health Ministry power

1289
01:19:50,173 --> 01:19:54,213
Speaker 2: to override decisions of regulatory authorities like the Nursing Council

1290
01:19:54,533 --> 01:19:57,493
Speaker 2: if the Minister believes those decisions go beyond what is

1291
01:19:57,573 --> 01:20:02,093
Speaker 2: necessary to protect public health and safety. Now that's the

1292
01:20:02,413 --> 01:20:07,373
Speaker 2: end of the Act release, and so do Part two.

1293
01:20:07,493 --> 01:20:10,853
Speaker 2: Now this was and by somebody I know quite well,

1294
01:20:11,613 --> 01:20:14,053
Speaker 2: a friend of mine in fact, and it was published

1295
01:20:14,053 --> 01:20:16,653
Speaker 2: a couple of days ago prior to the Act release.

1296
01:20:17,093 --> 01:20:20,973
Speaker 2: And it is entertaining in and of itself. And so

1297
01:20:21,053 --> 01:20:24,573
Speaker 2: it begins. The first week in November promised a lot.

1298
01:20:24,973 --> 01:20:27,813
Speaker 2: On the Tuesday, the liberal women of America were going

1299
01:20:27,813 --> 01:20:30,253
Speaker 2: to show men that they would reclaim the right to

1300
01:20:30,293 --> 01:20:33,453
Speaker 2: abort their babies at any time and place they wished.

1301
01:20:34,093 --> 01:20:36,613
Speaker 2: And the educated elites on campus and in the media

1302
01:20:36,653 --> 01:20:40,773
Speaker 2: were set to prove that lies told often enough constitute

1303
01:20:40,813 --> 01:20:42,973
Speaker 2: the truth, so long as they are told by the

1304
01:20:43,053 --> 01:20:46,813
Speaker 2: right people. By Wednesday, according to smart people, Donald Trump

1305
01:20:46,853 --> 01:20:49,573
Speaker 2: would be holed up at marri Lago with his idiot

1306
01:20:49,653 --> 01:20:54,293
Speaker 2: savant newby Elon Musk, licking his wounds and sharing hamburgers

1307
01:20:54,293 --> 01:20:59,333
Speaker 2: with RFK Junior. On Wednesday, my grandson would turn two

1308
01:20:59,413 --> 01:21:02,013
Speaker 2: and receive a bright red fire engine to add to

1309
01:21:02,053 --> 01:21:04,613
Speaker 2: his collection of trucks. It was going to be quite

1310
01:21:04,613 --> 01:21:09,893
Speaker 2: a week. Unfortunately I missed it. On Monday night, Nature

1311
01:21:09,973 --> 01:21:14,253
Speaker 2: sent its silent assassin to visit me. Sepsus arrives invisibly

1312
01:21:14,373 --> 01:21:18,293
Speaker 2: and without warning. By Tuesday, I vomited fourteen times, to

1313
01:21:18,333 --> 01:21:20,293
Speaker 2: the point that water came back out of my mouth

1314
01:21:20,333 --> 01:21:22,853
Speaker 2: as quickly as I tried to sip it, and nausey

1315
01:21:22,853 --> 01:21:26,573
Speaker 2: appeals couldn't get past my pharynx. Being a male, I

1316
01:21:26,653 --> 01:21:30,333
Speaker 2: lay down to let it pass. It didn't. On Wednesday,

1317
01:21:30,453 --> 01:21:32,613
Speaker 2: I crawled to the room where my cell phone sat

1318
01:21:32,733 --> 01:21:35,893
Speaker 2: on its charger and tried to alert a political junkie

1319
01:21:35,933 --> 01:21:38,573
Speaker 2: friend that I couldn't keep our date. To pore over

1320
01:21:38,613 --> 01:21:42,933
Speaker 2: the entrails of the election as planned. The text read,

1321
01:21:43,373 --> 01:21:48,573
Speaker 2: have hav she waited for more? There wasn't any more.

1322
01:21:49,253 --> 01:21:51,253
Speaker 2: The cell phone lay on the floor, and so did I.

1323
01:21:51,853 --> 01:21:55,773
Speaker 2: When the building valet staff, concierge, and ambulance crew arrived,

1324
01:21:55,773 --> 01:21:57,853
Speaker 2: they spread me out like a starfish and bared my

1325
01:21:57,973 --> 01:22:01,533
Speaker 2: chest for the cardio version machine, as if none of

1326
01:22:01,573 --> 01:22:04,773
Speaker 2: this had anything to do with me. I collected snippets

1327
01:22:04,773 --> 01:22:08,253
Speaker 2: of conversation for clues as to the scene taking place.

1328
01:22:08,813 --> 01:22:11,813
Speaker 2: Let's get the catamine in quick. Tell any one who

1329
01:22:11,853 --> 01:22:13,893
Speaker 2: needs to know we may not make it in time.

1330
01:22:14,733 --> 01:22:17,013
Speaker 2: Ain't going to die on our watchman, one of the

1331
01:22:17,133 --> 01:22:21,373
Speaker 2: ambulance bros said, reassuringly, No way, bro, not no way,

1332
01:22:21,693 --> 01:22:26,093
Speaker 2: no how. His fellow bro replies, they write rap lyrics

1333
01:22:26,093 --> 01:22:29,053
Speaker 2: in their spare time. I thought, then the good part.

1334
01:22:29,453 --> 01:22:32,293
Speaker 2: I'm looking down at this person who looks a lot

1335
01:22:32,413 --> 01:22:35,133
Speaker 2: like me, who was lying prone on a Stanley Kubrick

1336
01:22:35,333 --> 01:22:40,093
Speaker 2: or George Lucas spaceship set while I give increasingly frustrated directions,

1337
01:22:40,573 --> 01:22:43,973
Speaker 2: as if being the actor, a cameraman and director is

1338
01:22:44,053 --> 01:22:47,333
Speaker 2: too much of one person to handle. The set is great, though,

1339
01:22:47,573 --> 01:22:51,173
Speaker 2: and the transition to the next scene is seamless. Now

1340
01:22:51,213 --> 01:22:53,093
Speaker 2: I'm looking down at myself, traveling at the speed of

1341
01:22:53,133 --> 01:22:57,093
Speaker 2: a sushi train through dry white mist, illuminated by a

1342
01:22:57,133 --> 01:23:00,213
Speaker 2: strong light. My face is serene to the point of

1343
01:23:00,253 --> 01:23:04,573
Speaker 2: being dopey. I'm never serene. I have a moment of anxiety,

1344
01:23:04,773 --> 01:23:07,493
Speaker 2: wondering if it's true that finger nails and toenails continue

1345
01:23:07,533 --> 01:23:11,093
Speaker 2: to grow after you who cuts them. The light goes out.

1346
01:23:12,693 --> 01:23:15,573
Speaker 2: When I woke, my best friend was holding my hand.

1347
01:23:16,333 --> 01:23:18,493
Speaker 2: She looked at me as though this time I'd gone

1348
01:23:18,493 --> 01:23:21,733
Speaker 2: too far. I peered through a forest of catheters and

1349
01:23:21,773 --> 01:23:24,413
Speaker 2: tubes coming out of my neck, my arms, and my chest.

1350
01:23:24,653 --> 01:23:28,973
Speaker 2: Beeping monitors competed with each other for attention. Apparently, the

1351
01:23:29,013 --> 01:23:34,573
Speaker 2: first words I said were that ketamine baby. My daughter

1352
01:23:34,693 --> 01:23:37,933
Speaker 2: arrived from Australia, my son from Nelson. My grandson loved

1353
01:23:37,973 --> 01:23:40,293
Speaker 2: his fire truck, but the siren was driving them mad.

1354
01:23:40,813 --> 01:23:44,053
Speaker 2: Removed the battery. I suggested you were dead on arrival.

1355
01:23:44,093 --> 01:23:48,813
Speaker 2: She replied, don't do that again. The cliches are all true.

1356
01:23:49,053 --> 01:23:52,373
Speaker 2: Then we get into the parth that's relative. The cliches

1357
01:23:52,373 --> 01:23:57,493
Speaker 2: are all true. Nurses are angels. They come from the Philippines, India,

1358
01:23:57,693 --> 01:24:01,333
Speaker 2: Asia and the Pacific Islands with ready made smiles on

1359
01:24:01,413 --> 01:24:05,293
Speaker 2: their faces. We pay them nothing. The young doctors travel

1360
01:24:05,333 --> 01:24:09,373
Speaker 2: in threes, visiting every four hours to read the charts

1361
01:24:09,453 --> 01:24:13,973
Speaker 2: and hypothesize about the meds and their dosage levels. I

1362
01:24:14,093 --> 01:24:17,133
Speaker 2: doubt if one of them is over thirty, working fourteen

1363
01:24:17,173 --> 01:24:20,293
Speaker 2: hour shifts, carrying the weight of hundreds of sick and

1364
01:24:20,373 --> 01:24:25,173
Speaker 2: dying people on their shoulders. The administrative bureaucracy, of course,

1365
01:24:25,493 --> 01:24:30,053
Speaker 2: lets send down. I could write a list. So that

1366
01:24:30,253 --> 01:24:37,613
Speaker 2: was my November. In Michele Wellmeck's latest novel, Annihilation, the

1367
01:24:37,653 --> 01:24:41,493
Speaker 2: French health bureaucracy separates health from humanity until end of

1368
01:24:41,573 --> 01:24:46,613
Speaker 2: life care becomes a punishment subservient to systems. This inspires

1369
01:24:46,613 --> 01:24:50,213
Speaker 2: the establishment of a volunteer group called CLASH, the Committee

1370
01:24:50,253 --> 01:24:54,053
Speaker 2: for Liberation from Assassination in hospitals. They rescue people in

1371
01:24:54,093 --> 01:24:55,853
Speaker 2: the dead of night and return them to the people

1372
01:24:55,853 --> 01:24:59,733
Speaker 2: who love them after a week in recovery, listening to

1373
01:24:59,773 --> 01:25:02,813
Speaker 2: the fog horn snoring and the obsessive recounting of a

1374
01:25:02,893 --> 01:25:05,653
Speaker 2: dying man's life as he searched for a version of

1375
01:25:05,733 --> 01:25:09,093
Speaker 2: himself that he could accept. At the last I was

1376
01:25:09,213 --> 01:25:12,693
Speaker 2: lying in bed, desperately seeking a snatch of sleep, when

1377
01:25:12,693 --> 01:25:15,893
Speaker 2: a marry woman visitor to the ward decided to conduct

1378
01:25:15,893 --> 01:25:20,173
Speaker 2: a telephone conversation in terreo at full volume, as if

1379
01:25:20,173 --> 01:25:23,493
Speaker 2: she were in a shopping ball. It lasted an hour

1380
01:25:23,533 --> 01:25:26,733
Speaker 2: and a half, barely two meters from my curtained bed.

1381
01:25:28,213 --> 01:25:31,853
Speaker 2: On his next ward rounds, I told my brilliant young

1382
01:25:31,973 --> 01:25:37,053
Speaker 2: Chinese doctor about clash recovery. I mused, relies equally on

1383
01:25:37,133 --> 01:25:40,173
Speaker 2: the spirit as it does to the body. In order

1384
01:25:40,213 --> 01:25:43,253
Speaker 2: to preserve my spirit, I intended escaping. He nodded his

1385
01:25:43,333 --> 01:25:46,093
Speaker 2: head and smiled. I'll need an hour or so at

1386
01:25:46,133 --> 01:25:48,293
Speaker 2: the end of my rounds to write you a discharge

1387
01:25:48,293 --> 01:25:52,133
Speaker 2: and arrange a meds. Back home and feather bedded comfort

1388
01:25:52,253 --> 01:25:55,053
Speaker 2: fussed over like a visiting celebrity. I feeled at a

1389
01:25:55,093 --> 01:25:57,213
Speaker 2: call from a friend in Sydney. What's it like on

1390
01:25:57,253 --> 01:26:01,253
Speaker 2: the other side, he asked. I assured him that it

1391
01:26:01,333 --> 01:26:05,773
Speaker 2: is painless and peaceful. The pain is on this side.

1392
01:26:05,813 --> 01:26:07,893
Speaker 2: My political junkie friend brought me up to date with

1393
01:26:07,933 --> 01:26:12,373
Speaker 2: a presidential election. A mass sociogenic hysteria had broken out

1394
01:26:12,373 --> 01:26:15,133
Speaker 2: among liberal women, causing them to cut off their hair

1395
01:26:15,173 --> 01:26:19,173
Speaker 2: and gather in lakeside mobs to howl hysterically at the moon.

1396
01:26:19,653 --> 01:26:22,773
Speaker 2: Four year cruise packages were being offered to Democrats, allowing

1397
01:26:22,813 --> 01:26:25,453
Speaker 2: them to stay away from America until the madness had passed.

1398
01:26:26,133 --> 01:26:28,853
Speaker 2: Mark Zuckerberg, who had banned Donald Trump from his social

1399
01:26:28,853 --> 01:26:32,653
Speaker 2: platforms in twenty twenty and fed his sights with false

1400
01:26:32,773 --> 01:26:36,933
Speaker 2: information from the state intelligence community, had gone down to

1401
01:26:36,973 --> 01:26:40,573
Speaker 2: mare Lago to kiss the new monarch's ring. It had

1402
01:26:40,613 --> 01:26:43,173
Speaker 2: been a clean sweep. The pain is on this side,

1403
01:26:43,253 --> 01:26:46,733
Speaker 2: as I said, but for the woke allergic majority, the

1404
01:26:46,813 --> 01:26:53,093
Speaker 2: pain has eased a little a I Faber. If you

1405
01:26:53,133 --> 01:26:55,733
Speaker 2: want to copy it for yourself and share it round,

1406
01:26:55,813 --> 01:27:00,653
Speaker 2: it's worth it, I reckon Ai Fabler, substack, help yourself.

1407
01:27:00,973 --> 01:27:04,853
Speaker 2: It's free, and it's a true story, and it covers

1408
01:27:05,053 --> 01:27:08,293
Speaker 2: more bases than he intended to in the first place.

1409
01:27:08,573 --> 01:27:11,533
Speaker 2: If you go back to I haven't finished yet. But

1410
01:27:11,573 --> 01:27:14,893
Speaker 2: if you go back to the list of the pillars

1411
01:27:15,453 --> 01:27:18,533
Speaker 2: that they're installing as of January twenty, you can see

1412
01:27:18,533 --> 01:27:20,853
Speaker 2: that at least fifty percent of them. Well, I'll let

1413
01:27:22,333 --> 01:27:25,973
Speaker 2: this follower tell the story. Because I sent that release,

1414
01:27:26,733 --> 01:27:30,253
Speaker 2: the act release, to Ai Fabler, I said, would you

1415
01:27:30,293 --> 01:27:31,053
Speaker 2: care to comment on it?

1416
01:27:31,133 --> 01:27:31,413
Speaker 3: Please?

1417
01:27:31,653 --> 01:27:34,493
Speaker 2: I didn't know what he'd say, but I suspected this

1418
01:27:34,613 --> 01:27:37,133
Speaker 2: is late in my experience during an extended period in

1419
01:27:37,373 --> 01:27:40,773
Speaker 2: ice you followed by recovery in a four patient ward

1420
01:27:41,133 --> 01:27:43,933
Speaker 2: was that the majority of nurses were from the Philippines, India,

1421
01:27:44,053 --> 01:27:48,893
Speaker 2: Asia and Pacific Islands. Without exception, their competence and devotion

1422
01:27:48,973 --> 01:27:53,453
Speaker 2: to patients was exemplary. Shortness of staffing, particularly at night,

1423
01:27:53,813 --> 01:27:57,213
Speaker 2: meant that nurses had an informal agreement to cover for

1424
01:27:57,293 --> 01:28:01,453
Speaker 2: each other in neighboring ICEEU rooms, and sometimes Philippine staff

1425
01:28:01,733 --> 01:28:05,293
Speaker 2: or Indian staff would call to each other in their

1426
01:28:05,293 --> 01:28:10,053
Speaker 2: own language to attract attention under urgency, but would always

1427
01:28:10,053 --> 01:28:13,093
Speaker 2: advise the patient in English as to what was happening.

1428
01:28:13,173 --> 01:28:16,213
Speaker 2: I was never conscious of my ethnicity being a factor

1429
01:28:16,333 --> 01:28:20,253
Speaker 2: in any treatment, no matter how sensitive that treatment. There

1430
01:28:20,293 --> 01:28:22,733
Speaker 2: may have been reference to my ethnicity in the record

1431
01:28:22,853 --> 01:28:27,013
Speaker 2: of my NHI number, but never on any records of treatment.

1432
01:28:27,093 --> 01:28:30,733
Speaker 2: During my period of stay. I never encountered a Mari

1433
01:28:30,853 --> 01:28:34,653
Speaker 2: nurse or doctor, but did observe the treatment and expectations

1434
01:28:34,693 --> 01:28:37,533
Speaker 2: of married patients and visitors, which I would rather not

1435
01:28:37,613 --> 01:28:42,253
Speaker 2: comment upon. The Nursing Council list of expectations has no

1436
01:28:42,373 --> 01:28:46,813
Speaker 2: relevance add all to the health, safety, or cultural well

1437
01:28:46,893 --> 01:28:50,373
Speaker 2: being of eighty five percent of patients who have no

1438
01:28:50,493 --> 01:28:52,693
Speaker 2: desire to be addressed in terraea or to be treated

1439
01:28:52,733 --> 01:28:57,013
Speaker 2: with reference to so called Marii custom. And he finalizes

1440
01:28:57,133 --> 01:29:00,653
Speaker 2: with this sentence, which is most important. Further, it would

1441
01:29:00,653 --> 01:29:04,173
Speaker 2: be a burden on dedicated staff of other ethnicities who

1442
01:29:04,173 --> 01:29:07,253
Speaker 2: have been trained in Western medicine and put their faith

1443
01:29:07,293 --> 01:29:13,133
Speaker 2: in itslutely regards. Make of it what you will. It's

1444
01:29:13,213 --> 01:29:17,093
Speaker 2: just another example of this country going inch by inch,

1445
01:29:17,653 --> 01:29:21,933
Speaker 2: step by step in an undesirable direction. At least that's

1446
01:29:21,973 --> 01:29:24,653
Speaker 2: my take. And that will take us out for Podcast

1447
01:29:24,733 --> 01:29:28,213
Speaker 2: two hundred and sixty eight. We shall return in a

1448
01:29:28,213 --> 01:29:30,373
Speaker 2: few days with podcasts to sixty nine, the last for

1449
01:29:30,373 --> 01:29:32,533
Speaker 2: the year, and it's got to be a great discussion

1450
01:29:32,573 --> 01:29:37,493
Speaker 2: with Tony Astral from Antoine's Restaurant. As it was that

1451
01:29:37,653 --> 01:29:40,253
Speaker 2: is no longer so in the meantime, the only thing

1452
01:29:40,333 --> 01:29:42,373
Speaker 2: left to say is if you'd like to, if you'd

1453
01:29:42,413 --> 01:29:45,453
Speaker 2: like to contact us Latent at newstalksb dot co dot

1454
01:29:45,493 --> 01:29:48,853
Speaker 2: nz or Carolyn with Y at newstalksb dot co dot

1455
01:29:48,933 --> 01:29:52,413
Speaker 2: NZ as I say back in a few days. Until then,

1456
01:29:53,373 --> 01:29:55,093
Speaker 2: thank you for listening and we'll talk soon.

1457
01:30:02,853 --> 01:30:07,413
Speaker 1: Thank you for more from NEWSTALKSB listen live on air

1458
01:30:07,613 --> 01:30:10,293
Speaker 1: or online, and keep our shows with you wherever you

1459
01:30:10,373 --> 01:30:12,813
Speaker 1: go with our podcasts on iHeartRadio