1 00:00:00,480 --> 00:00:03,840 Speaker 1: Heather du for Zilo. Now, as predicted, the governments had 2 00:00:03,880 --> 00:00:06,480 Speaker 1: to beef up the proposed new three strikes law. It's 3 00:00:06,519 --> 00:00:08,880 Speaker 1: going to drop the qualifying threshold for the first strike 4 00:00:09,200 --> 00:00:11,400 Speaker 1: from two years jail down to one year jail, and 5 00:00:11,440 --> 00:00:13,640 Speaker 1: it will carry over the strikes from the last time 6 00:00:13,680 --> 00:00:16,079 Speaker 1: that the law was around. Associate Minister of Justice Nicole 7 00:00:16,120 --> 00:00:17,720 Speaker 1: McKay's with us now, Nicole. 8 00:00:18,079 --> 00:00:19,480 Speaker 2: Good afternoon, Heather, Nicole. 9 00:00:19,560 --> 00:00:22,680 Speaker 1: Did you see the Sensible Sentencing Trusts analysis of how 10 00:00:22,680 --> 00:00:24,800 Speaker 1: many more people you're going to catch with us change today? 11 00:00:26,640 --> 00:00:29,800 Speaker 2: I have not seen their analysis today. But what we 12 00:00:29,960 --> 00:00:33,440 Speaker 2: have done heither is we've listened to people who have 13 00:00:33,560 --> 00:00:37,280 Speaker 2: submitted to us, who have called you up and said 14 00:00:37,280 --> 00:00:39,120 Speaker 2: that they didn't like the regime as it was and 15 00:00:39,120 --> 00:00:41,800 Speaker 2: it needed to be tougher. And that's exactly what we've done, 16 00:00:41,960 --> 00:00:44,960 Speaker 2: is listen to them, and we've implemented these changes. Well, well, 17 00:00:44,960 --> 00:00:47,520 Speaker 2: we've made proposals to implement these changes. 18 00:00:47,600 --> 00:00:50,239 Speaker 1: So what the Sensible Sentencing Trust has done is they 19 00:00:50,280 --> 00:00:52,560 Speaker 1: had a look at the last time the law was around. 20 00:00:52,640 --> 00:00:54,480 Speaker 1: There were twenty five people who got to the third 21 00:00:54,520 --> 00:00:57,960 Speaker 1: strike law. According to the way that you're proposing this law, 22 00:00:58,200 --> 00:01:01,280 Speaker 1: only seven of them would get a third strike. But 23 00:01:01,360 --> 00:01:03,640 Speaker 1: because the changes you made today, more people will get 24 00:01:03,680 --> 00:01:10,000 Speaker 1: to third strike. Eight. Yes, that's eight. How does this 25 00:01:10,040 --> 00:01:13,520 Speaker 1: sit easy with you that your legislation as proposed would 26 00:01:13,520 --> 00:01:15,720 Speaker 1: only catch a third of the bad guys caught last 27 00:01:15,720 --> 00:01:16,240 Speaker 1: time round. 28 00:01:17,120 --> 00:01:19,080 Speaker 2: Well, at the end of the day, what we are 29 00:01:19,120 --> 00:01:21,760 Speaker 2: going to have on modeling of figures that we've got 30 00:01:21,800 --> 00:01:26,000 Speaker 2: now is that instead of having eight hundred people getting 31 00:01:26,000 --> 00:01:28,720 Speaker 2: a first strike, we're looking at twelve one hundred on 32 00:01:28,760 --> 00:01:30,920 Speaker 2: a first strike. We're going to have nine hundred and 33 00:01:30,920 --> 00:01:33,679 Speaker 2: fifteen that will be eligible for a second strike. This 34 00:01:33,800 --> 00:01:37,200 Speaker 2: is predicted numbers as opposed to two hundred and sixty six, 35 00:01:37,600 --> 00:01:40,480 Speaker 2: and we'll be looking at ninety nine people receiving a 36 00:01:40,520 --> 00:01:42,800 Speaker 2: third strike as opposed to eleven. 37 00:01:44,000 --> 00:01:45,880 Speaker 1: What period of time are you using here? 38 00:01:46,360 --> 00:01:49,240 Speaker 2: This is over the first ten years? And how to 39 00:01:49,360 --> 00:01:51,400 Speaker 2: be over that? It has to be over that time 40 00:01:51,440 --> 00:01:54,640 Speaker 2: period because for the second strike it's no parole, so 41 00:01:54,680 --> 00:01:56,160 Speaker 2: they have to serve the full time. 42 00:01:56,360 --> 00:01:58,600 Speaker 1: How long the numbers that I was using of twenty 43 00:01:58,600 --> 00:02:01,080 Speaker 1: five on third strike? Fast time around the law was 44 00:02:01,120 --> 00:02:03,280 Speaker 1: the last time the law was round? How long was 45 00:02:03,320 --> 00:02:05,520 Speaker 1: that law around for that? We got to twenty five. 46 00:02:06,200 --> 00:02:09,480 Speaker 2: So that law was implemented over a period of about 47 00:02:09,520 --> 00:02:13,840 Speaker 2: eleven years. We did not see the full measure of 48 00:02:13,880 --> 00:02:18,440 Speaker 2: it because, as I mentioned a third time, yes, what 49 00:02:18,520 --> 00:02:21,359 Speaker 2: we're predicting now over a ten year period is serious 50 00:02:21,400 --> 00:02:25,960 Speaker 2: consequence and accountability for those serious violent offenders. And I 51 00:02:25,960 --> 00:02:28,480 Speaker 2: think also we need to alleviate some of the concerns 52 00:02:28,520 --> 00:02:31,440 Speaker 2: people have out there about petty crime being picked up 53 00:02:31,440 --> 00:02:34,640 Speaker 2: on this. It's not about petty theft or anything like. 54 00:02:34,680 --> 00:02:36,160 Speaker 2: This is about serious violence. 55 00:02:36,800 --> 00:02:38,880 Speaker 1: I know, because you've picked forty crimes that people can 56 00:02:38,919 --> 00:02:40,600 Speaker 1: get picked up for. But what I want to know 57 00:02:40,720 --> 00:02:43,320 Speaker 1: is why are you Why are you watering this down 58 00:02:43,720 --> 00:02:46,239 Speaker 1: to the extent that of the twenty five people who 59 00:02:46,280 --> 00:02:49,200 Speaker 1: reached third strike last time, nineteen or what does it, 60 00:02:49,240 --> 00:02:51,000 Speaker 1: seventeen of them walk away, they don't even get to 61 00:02:51,040 --> 00:02:52,720 Speaker 1: third strike, Why are you doing that? 62 00:02:53,560 --> 00:02:56,800 Speaker 2: They won't necessarily walk away because one of the things 63 00:02:56,800 --> 00:03:00,560 Speaker 2: that we are reactivating is an introduction of those past 64 00:03:00,560 --> 00:03:04,280 Speaker 2: defenses being brought forward into the new regime if they 65 00:03:04,320 --> 00:03:07,920 Speaker 2: meet the qualifying criteria, and those twenty five people that 66 00:03:08,000 --> 00:03:11,399 Speaker 2: were serving a third strike will meet the qualifying criteria. 67 00:03:11,520 --> 00:03:12,920 Speaker 2: I don't know that you're going to be with them. 68 00:03:13,200 --> 00:03:16,520 Speaker 1: Are you failing to understand my point deliberately or is 69 00:03:16,560 --> 00:03:17,440 Speaker 1: it just an accident. 70 00:03:18,240 --> 00:03:22,079 Speaker 2: No, it's because we have found that under the previous 71 00:03:22,160 --> 00:03:25,560 Speaker 2: regime we had some minor lower level offenders being caught 72 00:03:25,639 --> 00:03:28,160 Speaker 2: up in the system. And this has always been about 73 00:03:28,200 --> 00:03:29,600 Speaker 2: going after those serious fires. 74 00:03:29,720 --> 00:03:31,200 Speaker 1: And let me give you I'll give you an example 75 00:03:31,200 --> 00:03:33,480 Speaker 1: of a minor lower level offender. Okay, there's a chap 76 00:03:33,520 --> 00:03:36,920 Speaker 1: called Rana Peritomata who ended up being a third striker 77 00:03:36,920 --> 00:03:40,400 Speaker 1: because he murdered his girlfriend in twenty nineteen. Under your laws, 78 00:03:40,520 --> 00:03:42,200 Speaker 1: he would not be a third striker, he'd be a 79 00:03:42,200 --> 00:03:45,040 Speaker 1: second striker because his first strike offense, which was an 80 00:03:45,040 --> 00:03:48,320 Speaker 1: aggravated robbery, he was only sentenced to eight months home 81 00:03:48,440 --> 00:03:52,240 Speaker 1: d Nicole. That's not a light offense. That's massive. He 82 00:03:52,320 --> 00:03:55,440 Speaker 1: got eight months and your law wouldn't even give him 83 00:03:55,440 --> 00:03:57,120 Speaker 1: a first strike. Are you sure you want to do that? 84 00:03:58,000 --> 00:04:00,320 Speaker 2: Yeah? I am sure that we're going about this the 85 00:04:00,400 --> 00:04:03,640 Speaker 2: right way because what we've also introduced under this regime 86 00:04:04,120 --> 00:04:06,320 Speaker 2: is not only for the judges to be able to 87 00:04:06,320 --> 00:04:09,200 Speaker 2: look at manifestly are just and pull out the lower levels, 88 00:04:09,440 --> 00:04:13,960 Speaker 2: but also putting some not discretion, but the ability for 89 00:04:14,080 --> 00:04:17,160 Speaker 2: the judges to fit within the regime that we are 90 00:04:17,200 --> 00:04:20,479 Speaker 2: currently trying to apply, so that they don't please their 91 00:04:20,880 --> 00:04:21,799 Speaker 2: minimum sentences. 92 00:04:21,920 --> 00:04:25,000 Speaker 1: Why should our friend that an a peritomat who committed 93 00:04:25,000 --> 00:04:27,599 Speaker 1: an aggravated robbery not get a first strike for that. 94 00:04:29,240 --> 00:04:32,120 Speaker 2: What we need to ensure is that those really low 95 00:04:32,200 --> 00:04:35,640 Speaker 2: level ones are not captured, but the more serious ones are. 96 00:04:37,000 --> 00:04:38,080 Speaker 1: Robber low level. 97 00:04:38,600 --> 00:04:43,040 Speaker 2: This guy has committed an offense that fits the new criteria, 98 00:04:43,320 --> 00:04:47,560 Speaker 2: then he should absolutely be struck or struck for it. 99 00:04:47,520 --> 00:04:50,680 Speaker 1: But he won't because laws strike. 100 00:04:51,400 --> 00:04:53,920 Speaker 2: Because he's already third served a third strike, he will 101 00:04:53,920 --> 00:04:57,520 Speaker 2: still be within that system. This is about an escalation, right, 102 00:04:57,760 --> 00:05:00,720 Speaker 2: This is about making sure that people are a accountable 103 00:05:00,960 --> 00:05:04,000 Speaker 2: for the actions that they have committed. But we still 104 00:05:04,040 --> 00:05:06,760 Speaker 2: can't make sure that the lower level ones are caught 105 00:05:06,839 --> 00:05:09,400 Speaker 2: up on it. So we've got to look at how 106 00:05:09,400 --> 00:05:12,800 Speaker 2: we direct or not direct, but how we outline what 107 00:05:12,920 --> 00:05:16,120 Speaker 2: the judges, what we expect of the judges in sentencing, 108 00:05:16,400 --> 00:05:19,040 Speaker 2: while still giving them the ability to make sure the 109 00:05:19,040 --> 00:05:22,720 Speaker 2: ones that just smack somebody's bottom that are not getting 110 00:05:22,760 --> 00:05:25,360 Speaker 2: twenty years in prison. So there's a fine line to 111 00:05:25,440 --> 00:05:27,479 Speaker 2: be had there and I think that we have made 112 00:05:27,520 --> 00:05:32,080 Speaker 2: it stricter, stronger. We're showing accountability to those to those 113 00:05:32,080 --> 00:05:34,720 Speaker 2: offenders and we're going to be looking after the victims. 114 00:05:34,760 --> 00:05:36,560 Speaker 2: But at the end of the day, we want to 115 00:05:36,560 --> 00:05:39,920 Speaker 2: make sure that those serious violence sexual offenders are locked 116 00:05:40,000 --> 00:05:43,719 Speaker 2: up and those bringing up you're. 117 00:05:42,960 --> 00:05:45,279 Speaker 1: Not doing that. That's my point and Nicole will have 118 00:05:45,279 --> 00:05:47,000 Speaker 1: to leave it there. Thank you for your time, appreciate 119 00:05:47,000 --> 00:05:50,680 Speaker 1: it as always. Nicole McKey, Associate Minister of Justice. For 120 00:05:50,800 --> 00:05:54,360 Speaker 1: more from Heather Duplessy Allen Drive, Listen live to news talks. 121 00:05:54,400 --> 00:05:57,600 Speaker 1: It'd be from four pm weekdays, or follow the podcast 122 00:05:57,680 --> 00:05:58,719 Speaker 1: on iHeartRadio.