1 00:00:03,600 --> 00:00:08,080 Speaker 1: We're Business meets Insight the Business Hour with Rayan Breach 2 00:00:08,440 --> 00:00:12,640 Speaker 1: and Mass Motor Vehicle Insurance. Your futures in good hands, 3 00:00:12,880 --> 00:00:13,440 Speaker 1: News Talks. 4 00:00:13,480 --> 00:00:16,200 Speaker 2: That'd be good evening, six after sixth grade to have 5 00:00:16,239 --> 00:00:18,520 Speaker 2: your company coming up this hour, we will look at 6 00:00:18,520 --> 00:00:22,200 Speaker 2: the Greens mining announcement that they've made today. You could 7 00:00:22,280 --> 00:00:24,920 Speaker 2: drive a truck through the holes in it. Also Shane 8 00:00:24,920 --> 00:00:27,480 Speaker 2: Solely on the Market's Gavin Graham the UK for US Starman. 9 00:00:27,560 --> 00:00:29,960 Speaker 2: They're trying to crack down on a legal migration, finally 10 00:00:29,960 --> 00:00:33,159 Speaker 2: doing something, being pushed by Farage into that. Joining me 11 00:00:33,200 --> 00:00:36,760 Speaker 2: first those Nicola Willis Finance Minister. Minister, good evening, good evening, 12 00:00:36,840 --> 00:00:39,120 Speaker 2: Good to have you on the show. Let's start with 13 00:00:39,159 --> 00:00:41,479 Speaker 2: this polling around the capital gains tax. What do you 14 00:00:41,479 --> 00:00:44,320 Speaker 2: think does it look like you're in the IPSOS polling, 15 00:00:44,440 --> 00:00:46,080 Speaker 2: It looks like you've lost the room. 16 00:00:47,080 --> 00:00:49,360 Speaker 3: Well on the capital gains tax. You can see that 17 00:00:49,479 --> 00:00:55,160 Speaker 3: already significant numbers of people oppose that tax. And I 18 00:00:55,280 --> 00:00:57,760 Speaker 3: tell you what, between now an election day, we will 19 00:00:57,760 --> 00:01:00,440 Speaker 3: have a lot more opportunities to point out out the 20 00:01:00,840 --> 00:01:04,040 Speaker 3: significant negative effects that will have on groups of voters 21 00:01:04,080 --> 00:01:06,880 Speaker 3: and the economy. So I expect the numbers and support 22 00:01:06,920 --> 00:01:08,200 Speaker 3: will continue to fall. 23 00:01:08,120 --> 00:01:10,440 Speaker 2: But the numbers and support are the same as the 24 00:01:10,440 --> 00:01:11,479 Speaker 2: ones apposed, aren't they. 25 00:01:13,120 --> 00:01:15,600 Speaker 3: There's also a big undecided group in the middle run, 26 00:01:15,880 --> 00:01:18,280 Speaker 3: and those are the people that we will be speaking 27 00:01:18,280 --> 00:01:20,920 Speaker 3: to between now and the election. And I also think 28 00:01:20,959 --> 00:01:23,319 Speaker 3: some of the people who may at this stage be 29 00:01:23,360 --> 00:01:26,480 Speaker 3: saying they support it haven't yet recognized the impact it 30 00:01:26,480 --> 00:01:29,600 Speaker 3: could have on them, their family, their business, their employer. 31 00:01:29,760 --> 00:01:31,280 Speaker 3: And so we have a job between now and the 32 00:01:31,319 --> 00:01:34,600 Speaker 3: election to make sure everyone understands what labor are threatening 33 00:01:34,640 --> 00:01:35,240 Speaker 3: to do. 34 00:01:35,360 --> 00:01:38,800 Speaker 2: Are you convincing though? Do you think you're convincing, because 35 00:01:39,080 --> 00:01:39,560 Speaker 2: I think. 36 00:01:39,360 --> 00:01:42,679 Speaker 3: It's pretty convincing that labor have a track record, which 37 00:01:42,760 --> 00:01:45,160 Speaker 3: is they waste a heck of a load of money, 38 00:01:45,360 --> 00:01:47,440 Speaker 3: then they run out of money, so they come after 39 00:01:47,560 --> 00:01:49,840 Speaker 3: your money. And whenever they say they're going to do 40 00:01:49,880 --> 00:01:52,160 Speaker 3: a little tax, they end up doing a big tex 41 00:01:52,280 --> 00:01:55,320 Speaker 3: This makes sense, everyone understands and suit it. An additional 42 00:01:55,360 --> 00:01:56,320 Speaker 3: tax isn't good for anything. 43 00:01:56,520 --> 00:01:58,840 Speaker 2: But this is the problem. You have been saying this 44 00:01:58,880 --> 00:02:03,160 Speaker 2: for two years now. Do people actually think that or 45 00:02:03,200 --> 00:02:04,960 Speaker 2: are I When you look at the IPSOS poll, you're 46 00:02:04,960 --> 00:02:06,960 Speaker 2: no longer the most trusted party on the economy, you're 47 00:02:06,960 --> 00:02:09,040 Speaker 2: no longer the most trusted party on the cost of living, 48 00:02:09,040 --> 00:02:11,840 Speaker 2: You're no longer the most trusted party on most issues. 49 00:02:12,840 --> 00:02:15,280 Speaker 3: Well, I think in terms of that IPSOS pole, it 50 00:02:15,320 --> 00:02:17,880 Speaker 3: is at a point in time where I think many 51 00:02:17,919 --> 00:02:21,560 Speaker 3: of us me and the government are included, want to 52 00:02:21,560 --> 00:02:24,760 Speaker 3: see the economy performing better. It's at one point in time. 53 00:02:24,880 --> 00:02:28,240 Speaker 3: It's one pole between now an election day. There are 54 00:02:28,240 --> 00:02:31,919 Speaker 3: twelve months to go. I'm confident the economy will be 55 00:02:32,000 --> 00:02:34,680 Speaker 3: performing a lot better over the next few months. And 56 00:02:34,720 --> 00:02:37,120 Speaker 3: when New zealand Is are faced with the basic question, 57 00:02:37,960 --> 00:02:41,040 Speaker 3: who do you trust to strengthen the economy going forward? 58 00:02:41,160 --> 00:02:43,200 Speaker 3: The people who got us into the mess with all 59 00:02:43,200 --> 00:02:45,799 Speaker 3: of the extra debt and inflation and the rapidly rising 60 00:02:45,840 --> 00:02:47,919 Speaker 3: interest rates, or the people have had to do the 61 00:02:48,000 --> 00:02:51,080 Speaker 3: hard yards of digging us out of that, who have 62 00:02:51,240 --> 00:02:56,080 Speaker 3: actually delivered stable inflation, dropped interest rates and a growing economy. 63 00:02:56,320 --> 00:02:57,840 Speaker 3: I think they will choose National. 64 00:02:57,760 --> 00:03:02,080 Speaker 2: Thanks for letting us know the elections in November, much appreciated, Minister. 65 00:03:02,520 --> 00:03:04,440 Speaker 3: A year or so from now, right, No, you. 66 00:03:04,480 --> 00:03:08,200 Speaker 2: Said twelve months, Minister, So I am listening to that, 67 00:03:08,400 --> 00:03:09,280 Speaker 2: but you know, you. 68 00:03:09,240 --> 00:03:11,200 Speaker 3: Know it's not my promise to make though it's the 69 00:03:11,240 --> 00:03:11,720 Speaker 3: Prime Minister. 70 00:03:11,800 --> 00:03:13,880 Speaker 2: Oh, I know, you don't have to. It was your 71 00:03:13,919 --> 00:03:17,440 Speaker 2: mistake to make That's what it was when you when 72 00:03:17,440 --> 00:03:20,440 Speaker 2: you appointed Andrew Costa, what exactly did you know? Did 73 00:03:20,480 --> 00:03:22,560 Speaker 2: you know at that point this is to the Social 74 00:03:22,600 --> 00:03:25,560 Speaker 2: Development Agency as Social Investment agency? Did you know at 75 00:03:25,639 --> 00:03:29,200 Speaker 2: that point that he had been involved with MC skimming 76 00:03:29,280 --> 00:03:32,520 Speaker 2: and that there was the MC skimming affair situation bubbling away? 77 00:03:33,800 --> 00:03:40,120 Speaker 3: So he was appointed to the Social Investment Agency in September. Yeah, 78 00:03:40,160 --> 00:03:46,240 Speaker 3: and the complaint which the Independent Police Conduct Authority have investigated, 79 00:03:46,360 --> 00:03:48,880 Speaker 3: wasn't referred to them until October yep. 80 00:03:49,440 --> 00:03:53,880 Speaker 2: But his contract didn't start until November eleven, and the 81 00:03:53,920 --> 00:03:57,840 Speaker 2: Minister Mitchell found out November sixth. When did you find out? 82 00:03:58,880 --> 00:04:04,320 Speaker 3: Well, I was briefed that there was the conduct complaint 83 00:04:04,360 --> 00:04:07,960 Speaker 3: going on, and around December I was informed by Andrew 84 00:04:08,040 --> 00:04:11,120 Speaker 3: Costa that he was being interviewed as part of that investigation. 85 00:04:11,760 --> 00:04:16,080 Speaker 3: And it has always been my position and other minister's position, 86 00:04:16,600 --> 00:04:20,359 Speaker 3: that that investigation needed to be conducted thoroughly and fairly, 87 00:04:20,440 --> 00:04:22,880 Speaker 3: and that no one should be leaping to any conclusions 88 00:04:23,600 --> 00:04:26,400 Speaker 3: about it until it had conducted its process. 89 00:04:26,480 --> 00:04:29,359 Speaker 2: So you were saying minister, you weren't told by your 90 00:04:29,400 --> 00:04:33,840 Speaker 2: colleague Mark Mitchell anything to do with this until December. 91 00:04:35,160 --> 00:04:38,600 Speaker 3: No, what I'm saying is that Andrew Costa informed me 92 00:04:38,800 --> 00:04:41,359 Speaker 3: in December that he was being interviewed as part of 93 00:04:41,400 --> 00:04:44,279 Speaker 3: the process I had. 94 00:04:43,279 --> 00:04:45,599 Speaker 2: When you found out? Right, So when did you find out? 95 00:04:46,920 --> 00:04:51,640 Speaker 3: Well, you recall at that time was the Public Services 96 00:04:51,680 --> 00:04:55,240 Speaker 3: Minister and so as part of that, of course, the 97 00:04:55,320 --> 00:04:58,039 Speaker 3: mix skimming appointment had been put on hold. And so 98 00:04:58,080 --> 00:05:03,080 Speaker 3: I've been informed of the PCA investigations in that capacity. 99 00:05:03,600 --> 00:05:06,800 Speaker 2: Right, and yet so why did you, I mean, why 100 00:05:06,800 --> 00:05:09,160 Speaker 2: did we let this appointment proceed? 101 00:05:11,040 --> 00:05:15,200 Speaker 3: Which appointment of Costa? Well, as I said to you, 102 00:05:15,279 --> 00:05:18,520 Speaker 3: he was appointed in September and the complaint wasn't made 103 00:05:18,760 --> 00:05:20,960 Speaker 3: to the IPCA until October. 104 00:05:21,040 --> 00:05:23,120 Speaker 2: Yeah, but it's contracted to the start till November eleven. 105 00:05:23,240 --> 00:05:24,800 Speaker 2: So you could have canned before. 106 00:05:24,839 --> 00:05:27,479 Speaker 3: We couldn't have, but but ran We couldn't have prejudged 107 00:05:27,480 --> 00:05:30,560 Speaker 3: what the outcome of that investigation would be. That would 108 00:05:30,600 --> 00:05:32,160 Speaker 3: not have been, that would have been. 109 00:05:32,160 --> 00:05:36,120 Speaker 2: So you knew there was something going on, but you couldn't. 110 00:05:36,160 --> 00:05:38,440 Speaker 2: You were powerless to do anything about it? Was that? 111 00:05:38,520 --> 00:05:39,479 Speaker 2: Were you a bit worried? 112 00:05:40,800 --> 00:05:45,280 Speaker 3: I certainly didn't know the conclusions that the report has made. 113 00:05:45,279 --> 00:05:48,480 Speaker 3: In particular, I didn't know that information had been withheld 114 00:05:48,520 --> 00:05:51,240 Speaker 3: from the Public Service Commission about the nature of mix 115 00:05:51,240 --> 00:05:56,080 Speaker 3: skimming's previous relationships. I didn't know that proper investigation had 116 00:05:56,080 --> 00:05:59,520 Speaker 3: not occurred into complaints that had been made. I didn't 117 00:05:59,520 --> 00:06:02,880 Speaker 3: know that it attempts were made to rush that investigation 118 00:06:03,040 --> 00:06:07,760 Speaker 3: and indeed our THEIPCA to conclude its findings quickly. None 119 00:06:07,800 --> 00:06:08,680 Speaker 3: of that was known to me. 120 00:06:08,920 --> 00:06:11,040 Speaker 2: Now that you know it, do you trust him? 121 00:06:11,960 --> 00:06:15,320 Speaker 3: Now that I know it? I am concerned. As I've said, 122 00:06:15,520 --> 00:06:17,960 Speaker 3: I was shocked and appalled when I read the conclusions 123 00:06:17,960 --> 00:06:21,720 Speaker 3: of that report, and having read that report, I rang 124 00:06:21,760 --> 00:06:25,520 Speaker 3: the Public Service Commissioner to convey my views about its findings. 125 00:06:25,960 --> 00:06:28,599 Speaker 2: This Uber decision, the government's going to be legislating in 126 00:06:28,640 --> 00:06:31,000 Speaker 2: this area anyway? Does that sort of because there's a 127 00:06:31,080 --> 00:06:34,200 Speaker 2: thousand Uber members who are union members who aren't part 128 00:06:34,240 --> 00:06:35,919 Speaker 2: of this case. There's only four members part of this 129 00:06:35,960 --> 00:06:39,360 Speaker 2: particular case, but it could have wider implications for all 130 00:06:39,720 --> 00:06:43,479 Speaker 2: unionized Uber drivers. Will you stop that from happening? 131 00:06:44,880 --> 00:06:48,799 Speaker 3: Well, we knew that there had been some certainty about 132 00:06:48,800 --> 00:06:50,960 Speaker 3: this area of the law, which is why the government 133 00:06:51,080 --> 00:06:53,680 Speaker 3: had moved to provide more clarity so that everyone would 134 00:06:53,680 --> 00:06:57,080 Speaker 3: know where they stood going forward. The courts obviously have 135 00:06:57,160 --> 00:06:59,400 Speaker 3: made their decision, which we need to respect. I haven't 136 00:06:59,440 --> 00:07:01,839 Speaker 3: read the full judgment yet, so I can't give you 137 00:07:01,880 --> 00:07:05,320 Speaker 3: an interpretation of its full impact. But in general, the 138 00:07:05,360 --> 00:07:10,280 Speaker 3: government is very reluctant to retrospectively legislate on these matters. 139 00:07:10,320 --> 00:07:13,720 Speaker 3: So our position would be about the arrangements going forward. 140 00:07:14,400 --> 00:07:18,680 Speaker 2: Carbon price, carbon market. The price of carbon units about 141 00:07:18,720 --> 00:07:21,200 Speaker 2: sixty percent of what it was two weeks ago, even 142 00:07:21,640 --> 00:07:23,880 Speaker 2: before the government announced a bunch of changes, you know, 143 00:07:24,240 --> 00:07:27,200 Speaker 2: decoupling all that sort of stuff. Is this market credible? 144 00:07:27,240 --> 00:07:29,160 Speaker 2: I mean, you've got people coming out now saying basically, 145 00:07:29,200 --> 00:07:29,840 Speaker 2: just cancel it. 146 00:07:31,280 --> 00:07:34,520 Speaker 3: Well, we are committed to the emissions trading system and 147 00:07:34,560 --> 00:07:38,280 Speaker 3: from our perspective, aligning the ets with our domestic targets 148 00:07:38,360 --> 00:07:40,840 Speaker 3: makes the most sense and is consistent with the law 149 00:07:41,160 --> 00:07:44,200 Speaker 3: which binds us on our mission reduction plans. And actually 150 00:07:44,720 --> 00:07:48,200 Speaker 3: our decisions are in that nature are working. We're seeing 151 00:07:48,240 --> 00:07:52,240 Speaker 3: decarbonization across the economy. We're seeing that we're on target 152 00:07:52,400 --> 00:07:55,920 Speaker 3: to meet our missions reductions plans, and the ETES is 153 00:07:55,920 --> 00:07:58,240 Speaker 3: playing a very critical role in all of that. So 154 00:07:59,040 --> 00:08:01,120 Speaker 3: my message back to the market would be that the 155 00:08:01,160 --> 00:08:04,600 Speaker 3: emissions trading scheme is central to the government's and mission 156 00:08:04,600 --> 00:08:07,360 Speaker 3: reduction objectives and we intend that it should continue to be. 157 00:08:07,600 --> 00:08:10,760 Speaker 2: You heard anything about the warehouse getting into supermarkets? 158 00:08:11,640 --> 00:08:14,480 Speaker 3: Oh, that's something that I hear about from people all 159 00:08:14,480 --> 00:08:14,920 Speaker 3: the time. 160 00:08:15,920 --> 00:08:16,960 Speaker 2: Okay, what have you heard? 161 00:08:18,280 --> 00:08:22,000 Speaker 3: Well, I hear people speculating about it, and I always say, well, 162 00:08:22,000 --> 00:08:24,160 Speaker 3: the people to ask about their business plans are the 163 00:08:24,240 --> 00:08:25,640 Speaker 3: warehouse themselves, not me. 164 00:08:26,600 --> 00:08:28,800 Speaker 2: Minister, appreciate your time. Thanks so much for being with 165 00:08:28,840 --> 00:08:32,199 Speaker 2: me tonight. That's Nichola Willis, Finance Minister. Quarter past Sex 166 00:08:32,240 --> 00:08:32,920 Speaker 2: News Talks EDB. 167 00:08:35,400 --> 00:08:38,599 Speaker 1: For more from Heather Duplessy Allen Drive, listen live to 168 00:08:38,679 --> 00:08:41,840 Speaker 1: News Talk SEDB from four pm weekdays, or follow the 169 00:08:41,880 --> 00:08:43,520 Speaker 1: podcast on iHeartRadio.